Derek Chauvin is on trial for George Floyd's death

By Melissa Macaya, Meg Wagner, Mike Hayes, Melissa Mahtani and Veronica Rocha, CNN

Updated 10:10 PM ET, Tue April 13, 2021
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5:03 p.m. ET, April 13, 2021

Use-of-force expert: Chauvin would know that Floyd was not resisting arrest

Defense expert witness Barry Brodd.
Defense expert witness Barry Brodd. Source: Pool

During a lengthy cross-examination, prosecuting attorney Steve Schleicher questioned defense expert witness Barry Brodd extensively about to what degree George Floyd continued to resist arrest while Derek Chauvin was on top of him.

While viewing body cam video in court, Schleicher pointed out that Floyd "literally could not support his own head" at the time that Chauvin got off of him.  

Schleicher asked Brodd, "if a reasonable police officer in the position of the defendant, and that position is the position we see here, on top of him, would know" that Floyd is not responsive and resisting arrest at this point.

"I think he would know that he's not resisting," Brodd said.

Brodd then testified that he heard another officer say that he couldn't find a pulse on Floyd while Chauvin was still on top of him.

Schleicher then asked Brodd to confirm that in the video "the defendant's position is and was, and remains as we see here at this moment, in this time, in this clip, on top of Mr. Floyd, on the street." He responded, "yes."

4:40 p.m. ET, April 13, 2021

Use-of-force expert: A reasonable officer could possibly believe Floyd when he said he couldn't breathe

Defense expert witness Barry Brodd.
Defense expert witness Barry Brodd. Source: Pool

Defense expert witness Barry Brodd was shown body camera video of Derek Chauvin on top of George Floyd while Floyd pleaded with the officer and repeatedly said, "I can't breathe."

Brodd was asked during cross-examination by the prosecuting attorney if, in this context, — lying on the pavement with the defendant on top of him — if a reasonable police officer might find Floyd's claims that he couldn't breathe credible.

"It's possible," the witness said.

Brodd's cross examination at the Chauvin trial is ongoing.

3:36 p.m. ET, April 13, 2021

Use-of-force expert: Chauvin's knee on Floyd could be a use of force

Court TV via AP
Court TV via AP

Defense expert witness Barry Brodd said that Derek Chauvin's kneeling on George Floyd while he was in the prone position could be considered a use of force.

Brodd was shown an image of Chauvin on top of Floyd with his knee on his neck during cross examination by the prosecution. "Shown in this picture, that could be a use of force," Brodd testified.

Earlier, Brodd testified that he didn't "consider a prone control as a use of force" when he was asked by defense attorney Eric Nelson about Chauvin and the other officers taking Floyd out of the police car and placing him face down on the pavement in the prone position.

Brodd was also asked if placing additional pressure on somebody's neck while they are being held down in a prone position could increase the potential danger of positional asphyxia. He agreed.

Brodd also agreed that the dangers of positional asphyxia due to being restrained in the prone position is a known risk.

Some more context: Brodd testified that Chauvin's actions against Floyd were "justified." He also testified that it is his opinion that deadly force was not used against Floyd.

2:52 p.m. ET, April 13, 2021

Use-of-force expert: This was not a use of deadly force


Defense expert witness Barry Brodd was asked by attorney Eric Nelson if Chauvin's actions was a use of deadly force. "It was not," he responded.

He was asked to explain that opinion and gave an example that he teaches:

"I'll give you an example that I used to teach my academy classes, so officers respond to a domestic violence situation, and the suspect is still there, and he fights with the suspect, he fights with the officers and the officers are justified and using a taser to overcome this person's noncompliance. They tase the individual and the individual falls to the ground, strikes their head and ice. That is not an incident of deadly force, that's an incident of an accidental death, and in my review, I would like to see whether the suspect resisted and was objectively reasonable."

Brodd is being retained by defense attorney Eric Nelson. He has been paid for his work on the case, he testified. 

The prosecution's use-of-force expert testified Monday that Chauvin's actions represented deadly force and were unreasonable.

"Both the knee across Mr. Floyd's neck and prone restraint were unreasonable, excessive and contrary to acceptable police practices," said Seth Stoughton, a former police officer and associate professor of law at University of South Carolina.

"No reasonable officer would have believed that was an appropriate or acceptable use of force," he added.

4:14 p.m. ET, April 13, 2021

Defense expert witness says Chauvin's actions were "justified"


Defense expert witness Barry Brodd testified that ex-cop Derek Chauvin's actions were "justified."

"I felt that Derek Chauvin was justified with acting with objective, reasonableness following Minneapolis Police Department policy. And current standards of law enforcement and his interactions with Mr. Floyd," Brodd testified.

Brodd is a former police officer and use-of-force expert. He runs a consulting firm and is being retained by defense attorney Eric Nelson's office, he testified. Brodd said he has been paid $11,400 for his work on the case.

Watch the moment:

2:21 p.m. ET, April 13, 2021

The trial has resumed

The trial of Derek Chauvin has resumed. The defense called its next witness — Barry Brodd, a former police officer and use-of-force expert.

2:24 p.m. ET, April 13, 2021

Go There: CNN is in Minneapolis answering your questions as the Chauvin defense begins

Derek Chauvin’s defense team began presenting their own witnesses today. Just miles away from where the trial is happening, protests erupted for a second straight night over another fatal shooting of a Black man by police.

CNN correspondent Josh Campbell reports on the latest from Minneapolis and answers viewers' questions about the trial:

1:16 p.m. ET, April 13, 2021

Minneapolis police officer testifies about department training to detect "excited delirium"


Minneapolis Police Officer Nicole MacKenzie, the department's medical support trainer, testified that one of the officers at the scene, Thomas Lane, received training to detect a condition called "excited delirium" syndrome in a suspect.

MacKenzie was recalled to the stand today by the defense after previously testifying for the prosecution.

On cross-examination, MacKenzie testified that one of the things that officers are told to do during training is to roll suspects on their sides because excited delirium can compromise breathing.

Asked by the prosecutor if an officer would defer to an "emergency room doctor" on whether someone is actually experiencing delirium, MacKenzie said, "Absolutely. Not our place to diagnose that."

Court is currently in a lunch break.

12:54 p.m. ET, April 13, 2021

Defense recalls police officer who previously testified for the prosecution

The next witness for the defense is Minneapolis Police Officer Nicole MacKenzie. She is the medical support coordinator for the department.

MacKenzie previously testified as a witness for the prosecution.