Next phase in Trump impeachment inquiry begins

By Meg Wagner, Mike Hayes and Veronica Rocha, CNN

Updated 8:13 a.m. ET, December 5, 2019
95 Posts
Sort byDropdown arrow
6:16 p.m. ET, December 4, 2019

Pence on Barron Trump comment: "Impeachment hearings today reached a new low"

From CNN's Noah Gray and Chuck Johnston

Vice President Mike Pence addressed comments about Barron Trump made by constitutional law expert Pamela Karlan at today's hearing:

"The impeachment hearings today reached a new low," Pence told reporters in Michigan today. "I just heard at the hearing today, one of the Democrats witnesses actually used the President and first lady's 13-year-old son to justify their partisan impeachment. Democrats should be ashamed. Enough is enough. This sham impeachment should end, and congress should get back to work on issues that are important to the American people." 

What Karlan said: She mentioned the President's son when she was talking about the framers of the US Constitution and how they were worried that a monarchy could prevail in the US. During her testimony, she said, "The Constitution says there can be no titles of nobility. So while the president can name his son Barron, he can't make him a baron." 

First lady Melania Trump also reacted to the remarks on Twitter saying, "A minor child deserves privacy and should be kept out of politics. Pamela Karlan, you should be ashamed of your very angry and obviously biased public pandering, and using a child to do it."  

Moments ago, Karlan apologized for her remarks.

Watch here:

6:09 p.m. ET, December 4, 2019

News about Rudy Giuliani broke during this hearing. Here's what you need to know.

From CNN's Dana Bash, Michael Warren and Devan Cole

Drew Angerer/Getty Images/FILE
Drew Angerer/Getty Images/FILE

While the House Judiciary Committee holds its first impeachment inquiry hearing, news broke that President Trump's lawyer Rudy Giuliani traveled to Ukraine and Hungary this week to meet with several former Ukrainian prosecutors.

The trip was an effort effort to defend President Trump against House Democrats' impeachment inquiry, The New York Times reported today.

The Times, citing conversations with people familiar with the matter, said the President's personal attorney went to Budapest, Hungary, yesterday to meet with former Ukrainian prosecutor Yuriy Lutsenko, before going to Kyiv, Ukraine, today to meet with a number of other former prosecutors in the country, including Viktor Shokin and Kostiantyn H. Kulyk.  

What Giuliani is saying: CNN asked Giuliani about the New York Times story.

He avoided answering the question and instead commented on the Democratic impeachment report, which shows logs of calls between himself and budget office. 

 “[I] don’t remember calling OMB and not about military aid never knew anything about it,” he texted. 

He added: “I’m not the fall guy. I have all the evidence any fair prosecutor would need to show a major Pay for Play In Obama administration. Let’s see if we are still a nation of laws."

Giuliani wouldn't confirm he is in Ukraine and said he can’t discuss what he is doing but will soon.

Earlier today, Giuliani’s spokeswoman, Christianné Allen, gave CNN this statement:

“What Mr. Giuliani is doing at this point is still confidential and is for the sole purpose of proving his clients innocence. In doing so he will prove that this latest farce is even more baseless and malicious than the first attempted coup takedown. Once all individuals have returned safely to the United States, we will reveal the significant witnesses involved."
5:48 p.m. ET, December 4, 2019

Demings claims the President "is desperate to prevent any investigation into his wrongdoing"

Andrew Harnik/AP
Andrew Harnik/AP

Rep. Val Demings, a Democrat from Florida, called President Trump a man "desperate to prevent any investigation into his wrongdoing."

Demings specifically referenced the White House's refusal to cooperate with subpoenas issued in the ongoing impeachment inquiry.

"He has prevented key White House officials from testifying. The President's obstruction of Congress is pervasive. Since the House began its investigation, the White House has produced zero subpoenaed documents," Demings said. "We are facing a categorically blockade by a President who is desperate to prevent any investigation into his wrongdoing."

Watch here:

5:23 p.m. ET, December 4, 2019

A GOP representative listed a series of bad actions by past presidents. Here's what know about them.

From CNN's Michael Warren

Andrew Harnik/AP
Andrew Harnik/AP

Rep. Ken Buck, a Republican from Colorado, presented a unique argument in today's House Judiciary Committee hearing: Plenty of other presidents engaged in impeachable conduct who were never impeached.

Addressing the Republican witness, law professor Jonathan Turley, Buck asked a series of rhetorical questions about bad actions by past presidents, from Abraham Lincoln to Barack Obama, that he argued rose to the level of impeachable based on the standards set by Democratic members.

Here’s a brief list of some of the arguably impeachable actions Buck listed:

“Lyndon Johnson directed the Central Intelligence Agency to place a spy in Barry Goldwater’s campaign.”

  • The facts of this claim are in some dispute, but reporting out of the Senate Watergate committee in 1973 was that E. Howard Hunt, one of Richard Nixon’s infamous “plumbers” who plotted the Watergate burglary, told investigators he also spied on the 1964 Goldwater presidential campaign on behalf of Johnson’s White House. Hunt was a CIA employee at the time. In 1975, CIA director William Colby testified to Congress that spying on Goldwater’s campaign did take place but attributed the idea to a CIA officer.

“Franklin Delano Roosevelt, when he was president, directed the IRS to conduct audits of his political enemies. Namely Huey Long, William Randolph Hearst, Hamilton Fish, Father Coughlin.”

  • There is evidence Roosevelt did use the IRS to investigate a number of his political opponents, some of whom were listed here by Buck.

“How about when President Kennedy directed his brother Robert Kennedy to deport one of his mistresses as an east German spy?”

  • Ellen Rometsch was thought to be an East Germany spy when she was deported by John F. Kennedy’s Justice Department, headed by his brother Robert Kennedy, in 1963. There were also allegations she was a girlfriend of JFK, but that’s never been proven and Rometsch reportedly denied being both a spy and a Kennedy mistress.

“When Barack Obama directed, or made a finding that the Senate was in recess and appointed people to the National Labor Relations Board and lost 9-0, Ruth Bader Ginsburg voted against the President on this issue, would that be an abuse of power?”

  • Obama’s 2012 recess appointments to the National Labor Relations Board were controversial at the time because the Senate had not recessed for long enough. Republicans argued the appointments were unconstitutional. The case made it to the Supreme Court after the DC Circuit Court ruled against Obama. The Supreme Court unanimously affirmed the lower court’s ruling.

"How about when the President directed his national security adviser and the secretary of state to lie to the American people about whether the ambassador to Libya was murdered as a result of a video or was murdered as a result of a terrorist act?”

  • This refers to the September 11, 2012, terrorist attack on the US consulate in Benghazi, Libya. There is a dispute about why Obama’s national security adviser, Susan Rice, and his secretary of state, Hillary Clinton, publicly stated the attack was a spontaneous reaction to an inflammatory anti-Muslim online video when others in the administration had concluded the attack had been premeditated. There’s no evidence Obama directed Rice and Clinton to lie.

“How about when Abraham Lincoln arrested legislators in Maryland so they wouldn't convene to secede from the Union?”

  • Federal troops did have orders to arrest pro-Confederate members of Maryland’s General Assembly during a special session in 1861 to consider secession, according to the Maryland state archives.

5:39 p.m. ET, December 4, 2019

Melania Trump: Pamela Karlan should be "ashamed" for bringing up Barron Trump

First lady Melania Trump said Pamela Karlan should "be ashamed" after the law professor brought up Barron Trump at today's impeachment hearing.

"A minor child deserves privacy and should be kept out of politics," she tweeted.

This is her first public comment of any kind about the impeachment inquiry.

Earlier today, White House press secretary Stephanie Grisham called Karlan's mention of Barron Trump "classless."

What this is all about: During today's hearing, Karlan was asked to compare the fears of the framers of the US Constitution — who worried that a monarchy could prevail in the US — to President Trump's behavior.

She said that "kings could do no wrong, because the king's word was law." But in the US, "contrary to what President Trump has said, Article II does not give him the power to do anything he wants."

That's when she brought up Barron Trump as a specific example: "The Constitution says there can be no titles of nobility. So while the President can name his son Barron, he can't make him a baron."

A Republican congressman later read the first lady's tweet during the hearing and entered it into the official record.

5:12 p.m. ET, December 4, 2019

A GOP congressman just asked the 4 professors if they voted for Trump


GOP Rep. Tom McClintock just asked the four law professors testifying at today's hearing about how they voted in the 2016 election.

"With a show of hands, how many on the panel actually voted for Donald Trump in 2016?" he asked.

Pamela Karlan, a professor from Stanford Law School, immediately protested. 

"I don't think we're obligated to say anything about how we cast our ballots," Karlan said.

"I will not —" she continued, before McClintock interrupted her.

McClintock continued: "I think you made your positions, professor Karlan, very, very clear."

Jerry Nadler, the chair of the Judiciary Committee, said McClintock could ask the question — but also said the witnesses did not have to respond.

"How many of you supported Donald Trump in 2016? Show of hands." he asked again.

None of the four witnesses — including Jonathan Turley, the sole GOP witness — raised their hand. That's when Noah Feldman added: "Not raising our hands is not an indication of an answer, sir."

Watch here:

5:02 p.m. ET, December 4, 2019

GOP representative claims professor has contempt for conservatives

From CNN's Holmes Lybrand

Saul Loeb/Pool via AP
Saul Loeb/Pool via AP

Republican Rep. Matt Gaetz spent much of his five minutes of allowed questioning time focusing on one of the four expert witnesses before the House Judiciary Committee: Pamela Karlan, a Stanford Law professor.

In his questioning, Gaetz attempted to paint Karlan as a liberal elite biased against conservatives.

Gaetz first noted that Karlan had previously given money to Democrats, including $1,200 to Barack Obama, $2,000 to Hillary Clinton and $1,000 to Elizabeth Warren. Karlan did not dispute these figures, but later noted that she has a constitutional right protected by the First Amendment to give money to candidates.

Gaetz then pressed Karlan over her appearance at an event affiliated with a podcast called Versus Trump, during which she said that conservatives generally spread out, geographically, “perhaps because they don’t even want to be around themselves,” Gaetz noted.

When asked if she realized that the comment “reflects contempt on people who are conservative,” Karlan replied that she “was talking about there was the natural tendency, if you put the quote in context, the natural tendency of a compactness requirement to favor a party whose voters are more spread out.”

“And I do not have contempt for conservatives,” Karlan concluded.

Gaetz then moved on to attack her reference to President Trump’s son, Barron, when she joked that while Trump could name his son Barron, it does not make him a king.

“Let me also suggest that when you invoke the Presidents son’s name here,” Gaetz said, “when you try to make a little joke out of referencing Barron Trump, that does not lend credibility to your argument. It makes you look mean. It makes you look like you're attacking someone's family. The minor child of the president of the United States.”

Gaetz did not permit Karlan to respond.

Watch here:

4:33 p.m. ET, December 4, 2019

The hearing has resumed

Members will continue their 5-minute rounds of questioning.

4:24 p.m. ET, December 4, 2019

January is missing from the 2020 Senate calendar due to "uncertainty over impeachment," aide says

From CNN's Ted Barrett

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell’s office has released the Senate schedule for 2020. The month of January is absent from the 2020 calendar.

January was left off the calendar because of “uncertainty over impeachment," according to a GOP leadership aide.

Another GOP aide said there was pressure to get the calendar out so the Senate community can set vacations. Not knowing exactly how to set the Senate schedule for January – with so much up in the air about how or if a trial will proceed – was holding them up, the aide said.

They do expect to send out a January schedule at some point, one of the aides said.

Note: The days in red are the weeks the Senate plans to be in recess.