March 23, 2023 - TikTok CEO Shou Chew testifies before Congress

Democratic Sen. Mark Warner, the lead sponsor of the RESTRICT Act aimed at TikTok and other possible national security risks in technology, told CNN that Thursday’s hearing in the House with TikTok leadership will help their bill advance. 

“I think after today's hearing, particularly on the House Republican side, there's going to be some additional conversations,” said Warner. 

He added: “I think there's a great deal of interest from Senate leadership. I think we need to show a broad bipartisan House effort as well.”

The lead Republican co-sponsor, Sen. John Thune, said they don’t have “definitive” timing from Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer on a floor vote, although “he’s interested in seeing it advance.” 

Warner pointed out that concern over the national security risks of TikTok “is one of the areas that is truly bipartisan, and there's interest from both the House and the Senate.” 

However, both Warner and Thune acknowledged that they have encountered some pushback from TikTok’s creators and from those who want to ban the app immediately. 

“There are some folks who don't want to hear about national security concerns, and clearly there's a lot of folks who make money off of it as social influencers. I think the market will provide them another venue, another app,” said Warner. 

Thune said: “There are folks obviously who want to do something immediately and ban TikTok right away, which, frankly, would be fine by me too. But that's been tried, and it's been thrown out in the court.”

“I just think that in terms of getting a solution here, and a solution in place quickly, our legislation represents the best possible way of getting that done,” he added.

TikTok's effort to address Washington's security concerns by walling off US user data from China was met with skepticism from lawmakers at the hearing on Thursday.

"I still believe that the Beijing communist government will still control and have the ability to influence what you do," Democratic Rep. Frank Pallone said of the company's effort, known as Project Texas.

Republican Rep. Bob Latta enquired about whether any China-based employees of the company have access to US users' data. In response, TikTok CEO Shou Chew said, "After Project Texas is done, the answer is no."

However, Latta leaned on Pallone's opinion of the project not being useful, implying that he does not accept the effort as an acceptable solution.

What is Project Texas: TikTok has been erecting technical and organizational barriers that it says will keep US user data safe from unauthorized access. Under the plan, known as Project Texas, the US government and third-party companies such as Oracle would also have some degree of oversight of TikTok’s data practices. TikTok is working on a similar plan for the European Union known as Project Clover.

But that hasn’t assuaged the doubts of US officials, likely because no matter what TikTok does internally, China would still theoretically have leverage over TikTok’s Chinese owners. Exactly what that implies is ambiguous, and because it is ambiguous, it is unsettling.

TikTok CEO Shou Chew's claims that the company is not an arm of the Chinese government appears to be going unheeded by US lawmakers, as numerous members of Congress have interrupted the chief executive's testimony to say they simply don't believe him.

"To the American people watching today, hear this: TikTok is a weapon by the Chinese Communist Party to spy on you, manipulate what you see and exploit for future generations," said Rep. McMorris Rodgers.

In an exchange with Rep. Anna Eshoo, Chew tried to say that TikTok's Project Texas would protect US user data. He added: "I have seen no evidence that the Chinese government has access to that data; they have never asked us, we have not provided it."

"I find that actually preposterous," Eshoo fired back.

"I have looked in — and I have seen no evidence of this happening," Chew responded. "Our commitment is to move their data into the United States, to be stored on American soil by an American company, overseen by American personnel. So the risk would be similar to any government going to an American company, asking for data."

"I don't believe that TikTok — that you have said or done anything to convince us," Eshoo said.

Perhaps no exchange sums up Thursday's hearing like a moment following Rep. Kat Cammack's lengthy critique of TikTok's content moderation and links to China.

"Can I respond, Chair?" Chew asked McMorris Rodgers after Cammack's time was up.

McMorris Rodgers considered Chew for a brief moment.

"No. We're going to move on," she said.

TikTok CEO Shou Chew was asked several times by Congressman Frank Pallone if he can commit to not collecting any health or location data.

Some background: In 2020, The Washington Post worked with a privacy researcher to look under the hood at TikTok, concluding that the app does not appear to collect any more data than your typical mainstream social network. The following year, Pellaeon Lin, a Taiwan-based researcher at the University of Toronto’s Citizen Lab, performed another technical analysis that reached similar conclusions.

But even if TikTok collects about the same amount of information as Facebook or Twitter, that’s still quite a lot of data, including information about the videos you watch, comments you write, private messages you send, and — if you agree to grant this level of access — your exact geolocation and contact lists.

The top Republican and Democrat on the committee have taken multiple opportunities already to plug their bipartisan privacy proposal that would create the nation's first federal privacy right for US citizens.

Rep. McMorris Rodgers said that a ban on TikTok would only be a short-term solution and that "a data privacy bill is the only way to stop TikTok from ever happening again in the United States."

Pallone sought to extract commitments of support from Chew, asking him to endorse specific parts of the proposed law such as a ban on targeted ads for Americans under 17 years of age and a ban on the sale of commercial data to third parties.

Chew largely declined to commit to those principles but said that TikTok does not collect precise geolocation data or health data from users, and that TikTok does not collect more information from users than other social media companies.

A visibly frustrated Pallone told Chew that although TikTok was trying to show its good will and that it is distancing itself from the Chinese government, Chew's reluctance to endorse the specific legislation was problematic.

"The commitments we would seek to achieve those goals are not being made today," Pallone said. "You're going to continue to gather data … and continue to be under the aegis of the Communist Party."

The tense exchange highlighted how, while today's hearing may be focused on TikTok, committee leaders are seeking to use the concerns about TikTok to drive support for a bill that would apply to the entire tech industry and US economy writ large.

So far, both the committee's Republican Chair Rep. Cathy McMorris Rodgers and Democratic ranking member Rep. Frank Pallone have highlighted the concerns around TikTok's potential impact on kids.

"Children and teens are particularly vulnerable," Pallone said. "Frequent online use of interactive media on digital devices is associated with increased levels of depression among middle and high school students. Research has found that TikTok's algorithms recommend videos to teens that create and exacerbate feelings of emotional distress, including videos promoting suicide, self-harm and eating disorders."

TikTok's CEO is attempting to dispel national security concerns about his business by talking about the steps the company has taken to "firewall" US user data from unauthorized access. Will that be enough to persuade lawmakers?

Here's what we know about the alleged risks.

The overall fear is that the Chinese government could use its national security laws to pressure TikTok's parent ByteDance and its Chinese employees to provide access to TikTok's US user data.

Security researchers who've looked under the hood at TikTok have found that TikTok doesn't currently appear to be spying or engaging in any overt malicious behavior. They also say TikTok appears to collect the same amount of data that other mainstream social networks do. In that respect, TikTok is no more a national security threat than Facebook or YouTube.

The national security issue is primarily concentrated in TikTok's ownership and governance. In other words, the fear is less about TikTok's technical capabilities to track users, and more about the possibility that Beijing could exercise influence over TikTok, however indirect.

TikTok has argued that ByteDance was founded by Chinese nationals but that its ownership is largely not concentrated in China. Sixty percent of the company is owned by global institutional investors, 20% by the company's employees and 20% by the company's Chinese founder.

But US officials fear that due to China's national security laws that require people and organizations in the country to cooperate with state intelligence work, even a minority stake could give the Chinese government leverage over ByteDance and, in turn, TikTok.

Rep. Cathy McMorris Rodgers, the chair of the House Energy and Commerce Committee, opened Thursday's hearing by tearing into TikTok.

"We do not trust TikTok to ever embrace American values, values for freedom, human rights and innovation," McMorris Rodgers said.

Addressing CEO Shou Chew, McMorris Rodgers said: "Your platform should be banned. I expect today you'll say anything to avoid this outcome.... We aren't buying it. In fact, when you celebrate the 150 million American users on TikTok, it emphasizes the urgency for Congress to act. That is 150 million Americans that the [Chinese Communist Party] can collect sensitive information on."

The House Committee on Energy and Commerce hearing with TikTok CEO Shou Chew has started.

Here's Chew's prepared remarks in full as posted by the committee ahead of the hearing.