Senate hearing on the Norfolk Southern train derailment in Ohio

Lawmakers on both sides of the aisle tried to get some answers about the train derailment in East Palestine, Ohio, during a Senate committee hearing Thursday.

A Norfolk Southern train crashed on February 3, releasing toxic chemicals into the air, water and soil of the town. The Senate Environment and Public Works committee heard from witnesses, including Norfolk Southern CEO Alan Shaw.

Here are some key takeaways from the hearing:

Norfolk Southern CEO apologizes: Shaw began his testimony with an apology to the individuals and communities hurt by the derailment and said that Norfolk Southern will work to help East Palestine recover. He outlined a number of financial commitments as part of that effort and said the company “will be in the community for as long as it takes.”

Concerns from the community: The hearing featured several senators as witnesses: Ohio Sens. Sherrod Brown, a Democrat, and J.D. Vance, a Republican, and Pennsylvania Sen. Bob Casey, a Democrat.

They spoke about what they are hearing from constituents in communities affected by fallout from the incident and said people are worried about everything from drinking water and air quality as well as if their crops or livestock are contaminated.

Rail safety legislation: A bipartisan group of senators has proposed a new bill aimed at shoring up rail safety. The Railway Safety Act of 2023 has been introduced by Vance and other Republican Sens. Marco Rubio of Florida and Josh Hawley of Missouri, as well as Brown, Casey and fellow Democratic Sen. John Fetterman of Pennsylvania. In his testimony, Casey said he hopes to hear Norfolk Southern say they support the bill.

“It’s bipartisan — that never happens around here on big bills, or rarely I should say," Casey said. "If a major rail company said, ‘we support these reforms and will help you pass this bill,’ That’s what I think the people of both states deserve,” he later added.

Later in the hearing, Shaw was asked if he would commit to supporting the bipartisan bill. Shaw wouldn’t endorse all of the provisions of the bill, but he said, “we are committed to the legislative intent to make rail safer.”

Sanders presses Norfolk Southern CEO on health care costs for residents following train wreck: Vermont independent Sen. Bernie Sanders pressed Shaw on health care needs in East Palestine, asking if his vow to help the community following the train derailment will include paying for health care costs for residents. 

Shaw did not make a definitive commitment, but said that "everything is on the table."

CNN’s Jason Carroll spoke to residents and business owners in East Palestine, Ohio, about how they are coping in the aftermath of February's toxic train derailment.

Watch his reporting from the ground:

Negley, Ohio, resident Kathy Reese said Thursday that she finds Norfolk Southern CEO Alan Shaw’s testimony on Capitol Hill to be vague, open-ended, and evasive. 

“I think he’s full of it,” Reese said. “It’s great that he wants to put millions into everything, but that’s not going to change how peoples’ health is. If the health is already ruined by this air and stuff, unfortunately that’s not going to help.”

Shaw was among a panel of officials testifying in Washington, DC, Thursday before the Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works about the train derailment in East Palestine, Ohio. The company’s CEO began his remarks by apologizing to the communities hurt by the derailment.

“I am determined to make this right. Norfolk Southern will clean the site safely, thoroughly and with urgency. You have my personal commitment. Norfolk Southern will get the job done and help East Palestine thrive,” Shaw said.

Reese, who watched the ongoing testimony alongside CNN’s Jason Carroll, previously participated in CNN’s Town Hall on the East Palestine train derailment last month. Her home is located nine minutes from the derailment site and a creek that runs along the back of her property was contaminated.

Reese, who is not currently engaged in any litigation against Norfolk Southern, said she didn’t think Shaw answered any questions directly. She said she generally feels that Norfolk Southern “keep[s] skating around questions” without offering any specifics.

Reese also spoke on her frustration around water testing – she said she has not yet received the EPA testing results of her well water. When she asked testing officials to also test the creek and the ground around her home, she said they declined to do so, stating that they were only supposed to test the well water.

The EPA has installed “sentinel wells” near the city’s municipal well field to monitor contaminants in well water as part of the agency’s long-term early detection system to protect the community “for years to come,” Anne Vogel, head of the Ohio EPA, said last month.

Debra Shore, regional administrator for US EPA Region 5, also testified at the Senate committee hearing on Thursday. She and other EPA officials have maintained that both the air and municipal water in and around East Palestine is safe. Residents using private well water have been urged to get their water tested before using.

“EPA monitors have not detected any volatile organic compounds above levels of health concerns. While EPA is encouraged by the data, we also recognize that the people of East Palestine still question the health and safety of their community and their loved ones,” Shore said.

Despite the pledges of support and ongoing air and water testing, the train derailment continues to place a stigma on the community, with people from surrounding area hesitating to travel to East Palestine and nearby towns, Reese said.

“Even our basketball program – there was a lot of people that didn’t want to come here,” Reese said. “Our kids are suffering for it.”  

Norfolk Southern and Alabama authorities are at the scene of a train derailment in Calhoun County, Alabama, according to a Calhoun County Emergency Management Agency (EMA) news release issued Thursday. 

“Initial reports indicate approximately 30 cars derailed," just before 8 a.m. ET in the Quad Cities area of White Plains — about 90 miles from Birmingham, near the Georgia border, the news release said.

"There are no injuries and no reports of leaks of hazmat,” and there are no road blockages, the news release said.

Norfolk Southern has responded and their "cleanup crew is on site and there is no estimation on how long it will take," the news release stated, adding that EMA officials are working with Norfolk Southern on those efforts.

Local officials have scheduled an afternoon press briefing on the derailment. CNN has reached out to Norfolk Southern for comment.  

This happened just hours before CEO Alan Shaw testified in a Senate hearing about the February train derailment in East Palestine, Ohio. In his remarks and exchanges with lawmakers, he consistently touted the lower number of Norfolk Southern train derailments last year, and that he is committed to making the company's safety culture the best in the industry.  

Several experts testifying before a Senate committee Thursday on the toxic train derailment in Ohio pointed to cross-agency collaboration as something that worked well during the response to the disaster.

Debra Shore, regional administrator for the Environmental Protection Agency, commended the way local, state and federal entities worked together, adding that although it was remarkable, "it should be standard."

“It has not been about politics, but about people," she said during the hearing on the crash in East Palestine, Ohio. She pointed to President Joe Biden calling and talking with Republican Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine to pledge federal support for the state as just one example.

Norfolk Southern CEO Alan Shaw said getting the site cleaned up is his priority. He said the company couldn't accomplish that without help from the EPA and other environmental groups.

Anne Vogel, director of the Ohio Environmental Protection Agency, who spent a lot of time on the ground in East Palestine, touted the commitment of local officials to connecting the community to people who could provide scientific answers and expertise.

Richard Harrison, the executive director and chief engineer of the Ohio River Valley Water Sanitation Commission, said "this was not a unique response." He pointed to the hundreds of reports of potential spills that come into his office, and he felt the crash demonstrated how his team and system work.

At Thursday's Senate hearing on the toxic train disaster in East Palestine, Ohio, Sen. Shelley Capito pointed to various instances of communication gaps that led to lack of trust between Norfolk Southern, government and the public.

All the while, "the people living there still have to look and smell and fear," she added.

In any report generated on this incident, communication needs to be a "key part" of the lessons learned, Capito added.

"I think we just need to get our transparency [on] where this material is going. How long is going to take it to get out? How deep does it have to go? All these questions that people are asking because they want this over. And that's what you're trying to do — trying to get it over, and make it safe," she said.

Vermont independent Sen. Bernie Sanders pressed Norfolk Southern CEO Alan Shaw on health care needs in East Palestine, Ohio, asking if his vow to help the community following the toxic train derailment will include paying for health care costs for residents. 

Shaw did not make a definitive commitment, but said that "everything is on the table."

“You talked about covering the needs of the people of East Palestine – does that include paying for their health care needs – all of their health care needs?” Sanders asked. 

“We are going to do what’s right,” Shaw replied.

“What’s right is to cover their health care needs. Will you do that?” Sanders responded. “Everything is on the table, sir,” Shaw said in response. 

Sanders also pressed Shaw on the issue of paid sick leave for employees in a tense back-and-forth exchange. 

“You provided paid sick days to some of your employees,” Sanders said, “Will you make that commitment right now to guarantee paid sick days to all of your workers?”

“I share your focus on our employees. I will commit to continuing to discuss with them important quality-of-life issues,” Shaw said in response. 

Sanders replied, “With all due respect you sound like a politician here, Mr. Shaw.” 

“I am not hearing that commitment. Will you make that commitment?” the senator asked again.

“I am committed to continuing to speak to employees about quality-of-life issues that are important to them,” Shaw said, echoing his earlier answer.

Norfolk Southern CEO Alan Shaw has repeatedly stressed that the company spends more than $1 billion a year in safety, but the company has plans to repurchase another $7.5 billion of its shares, on top of the $12.8 billion in share repurchases it has done since 2018. And its CEO declined to say he has any plan to stop those massive purchases.

"Will you pledge to no more stock buybacks until a raft of safety measures have been completed to reduce the risk of derailments and crashes in the future," asked Sen. Jeff Merkley, an Oregon Democrat, at Thursday's hearing.

"I will commit to continuing to invest in safety," Shaw said in response to the question.

Shaw did not detail what was — and what was not — included in Norfolk Southern's safety plan. But it is still far less than the money being returned to shareholders through either share repurchases or dividend payments.

Correction: An earlier version of this post incorrectly described Norfolk Southern's safety plan.

Sen. Bernie Sanders pointed to a rail industry program called Precision Scheduled Railroading (PSR), and claimed that it helped Norfolk Southern increase its profits and reduce its workforce by almost 40% over six years.

Sanders said workers from Norfolk Southern and other companies told him that they are "being asked to do more work with fewer workers, and that includes safety inspections."

According to the US Government Accountability Office: PSR is used by six of the seven largest American freight railroads, and is "intended to increase efficiency and reduce costs. While there is no one definition of PSR, stakeholders told us this strategy is associated with fewer staff, longer trains, and more."

But railroad representatives, employee unions and shippers said told the GAO that PSR, in general, is associated with reductions in staff, longer trains and fewer locomotives to move those trains.

And all seven railroads told the GAO they ran longer trains with the goal of increasing efficiency in 2022.

"So well before this disaster in East Palestine, we have been told about the potential safety hazards. Will you make a commitment right now to the American people that you will lead the industry in ending this disastrous Precision Scheduled Railroading (PSR), which has slashed your workforce and made railroading much less safe?" Sanders asked.

Norfolk Southern CEO Alan Shaw did not confirm or deny Sanders' claims, and would not specifically answer on the topic of PSR, but he instead said the company has been on a "hiring spree" since he became CEO.

"The number of employees at Norfolk Southern today is 1,500 more than it was this time last year," he said.

Sanders' interrupted Shaw in the interest of time and pressed him once more on whether or not he would make the commitment to end the program.

Shaw did not respond with a yes or no. "Senator, in December of last year, I charted a new course in the industry. I said we're going to move away from a near-term focus solely on profits. And then we're going to take a longer-term view that's founded on our engagement with our craft employees who are so critical to our success. We were the first to pivot out of it."