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Trump Defends Sons' Meeting with Russian Lawyer; Interview with Rep. Jackie Speier; Trump/Macron Discuss Terrorism; Trump Asked About Chinese President. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired July 13, 2017 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:30:00] NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: He's not really that young. I think he's 39. The same age as Macron is. And he's also, I think, changing Donald Trump Jr's story. Right? I mean, Donald Trump Jr Said that he regretted this meeting, that hindsight is 20/20, that essentially if he --

(CROSSTALK)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: He would do it differently.

HENDERSON: He would do it differently. And Donald Trump here is essentially, as you said before, normalizing this and saying that --

(CROSSTALK)

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Framing it the way he would do it.

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: And he also said that the woman was not a -- not affiliated with the government.

HENDERSON: Right. Just a Russian lawyer. He said --

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: But that's not how it was billed in the e-mail.

HENDERSON: That's not how it was billed in the e-mail, yes.

BASH: Can I take a step back and note that one of the things that I talked to people inside the White House, that they were sort of taking it a sigh of relief about, was that a day after this whole thing broke, he was getting on a plane and going to Paris, that they could try to change the narrative. Narrative isn't really changed when he's, you know, still in Paris, getting a question about this. And as you said, going on and on and on and giving a lot more fuel to the fire, instead of doing a quick thing. There was a remarkable moment in that these two men, both very new on the stage, have a lot to work on, whether it's terrorism or economic issues or Russia or China, you name it. They're looking to -- it looks like they're actually forming a relationship.

TAPPER: Yes.

BASH: And --

TAPPER: To be fair -- we have to go to a different contributor. But to be fair, if there was any big news about Ukraine or ISIS or trade or any actual substance, we'd be talking about that right now.

BASH: That's my point.

TAPPER: It's just a photo-op really at this point.

We'll come back in a second.

But joining us right now, CNN contributor, Steve, a professor of law at the University of Texas School of Law.

Thanks for joining us.

Your impressions?

STEPHEN VLADECK, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Sure. Yes. I think you guys are hitting the nail on the head here. The real interesting thing about that whole ex-containing was that President Trump seemed to go out of his way to lay down a narrative for why, going forward, this story shouldn't take on the legs it's already taken on. He didn't answer the question put to him about whether he disagrees with his own nominee to be FBI director, whose name he, apparently, he didn't remember. So, you know, I think this is all exactly right. They're coming out of this press conference, if the president's goal was to change the narrative, or at least squelch some of the conversation about his son's meeting with a Russian lawyer, I think he failed.

TAPPER: Very interesting.

We're going to take a quick break, I'm told. Coming up, the president defending his son's meeting with what had been billed a Russian government attorney. Turns out, she was not. But President Trump saying lots of people would have held that meeting and the scandal is overblown. I'm not sure if that's accurate. We'll get reaction from a member of the House intelligent committee next. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:36:34] TAPPER: Welcome back. President Donald Trump standing in Paris just moments ago saying that his son, Donald Trump Jr, did nothing wrong, defending his son's decision to take a meeting with a woman who had been billed as a Russian government lawyer possessing incriminating evidence on Hillary Clinton. Going even further, the president did, alleging that most people in this country would have done the exact same thing. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: My son is a wonderful young man. He took a meeting with a Russian lawyer. Not a government lawyer, but a Russian lawyer. It was a short meeting. It was a meeting that went very, very quickly. Very fast. Two other people were in the room. They -- I guess, one of them left almost immediately and the other one was not really focused on the meeting.

I do think this. I think, from a practical standpoint, most people would have taken that meeting. It's called opposition research, or even research into your opponent. I've had many people -- I have only been in politics for two years, but I've had many people call up, oh, gee, we have information on this factor or this person, or, frankly, Hillary. That's very standard in politics. Politics is not the nicest business in the world. But it's very standard where they have information and you take the information.

In the case of Don, he listened. I guess they talked about -- as I see it, they talked about adoption and some things. Adoption wasn't even a part of the campaign. But nothing happened from the meeting. Zero happened from the meeting. And honestly, I think the press made a very big deal over something that really a lot of people would do.

Now, the lawyer that went to the meeting, I see that she was in the halls of Congress also. Somebody said that her visa or her passport to come into the country was approved by Attorney General Lynch. Maybe that's wrong. I just heard that a lot while ago. But was a little surprised to hear that. She was here because of Lynch.

So, again, I have a son, who's a great, young man. He's a fine person. He took a meeting with a lawyer from Russia. It lasted for a very short period. And nothing came of the meeting. And I think it's a meeting that most people in politics probably would have taken.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: That was President Trump moments ago in France.

Democratic Congresswoman Jackie Speier, of California, joins me now. She serves on the House Intelligence Committee, currently investigating Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election and any possible collusion.

Congresswoman, what do you make of the president's answer there?

REP. JACKIE SPEIER, (D), CALIFORNIA: Well, his answer is woefully inadequate. Even some of this fiercest supporters and defenders on that other TV station aren't defending him any longer.

First of all, we've got to remember that it was his son who said there was no meeting. In fact, many people in the White House, eight times, denied there ever was a meeting. And then when it was going to become clear that the meeting is going to be divulged, that the e-mail train is going to be divulged, then, of course, there was a willingness to come forward. There is no candidate running for public office in this country that is going to take a meeting with a foreign national to provide dirt on their opponent. It is -- it would be a violation of the Federal Elections Commission. It would be a -- an item of value that is given to the campaign by a foreign national, which is against the law. So you know, this mea culpa, I'm new to politics doesn't work. Ignorance is not a defense under the law. [13:40:18] TAPPER: I'm not sure. Legal analysts have said they're

not sure the FEC would ever enforce information as something of value. That's hypothetical so let's move on.

I want to ask you about some of the policy issues talked about the briefing, although, obviously, the biggest news was the president speaking so, so much at length about his son. But there was a comment about climate change. It's a big issue where President Macron and President Trump disagree. And President Trump obviously famously, depending on your point of view, withdrew from the Paris climate change agreement.

Take a listen to President Trump being asked if there was any way that he and President Macron could come together on that issue?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Yes, I mean, something could happen with respect to the Paris Accord. We'll see what happens. But we will talk about that over the coming period of time. And if it happens, that will be wonderful. And if it doesn't, that will be OK, too. But we'll see what happens.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Your response?

SPEIER: Well, I'm delighted that there is an openness to reinstating our position on the Paris Accord. I mean, it really speaks to his inability to understand these issues and speak in sound bites. The corporations in America are embracing the Paris Accord. We have states that are embracing the Paris Accord. So it is -- we look like we are an outlier and, all of a sudden, we're being referred to as the g-19 plus 1. We can't afford it as a world power to become sidelined.

TAPPER: CNN also is reporting, back to the Russia probe, the Senate Judiciary Committee will ask Donald Trump Jr to testify. Obviously, you're not a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, but what would you want to be asked of the president's son?

SPEIER: I would want to know about this telephone conversation that may have taken place between the first e-mail and the second e-mail, in which he had a conversation with the pop star from Russia. I would like to know whether or not they had any other contacts through third parties with Russian connections.

You know, the other concerning element, which may be the most explosive, is this new information that Jared Kushner had a database that may have been shared with Russian operatives to go in certain districts around the country, provide fake news to try and turn the tide in terms of the polling. So there is so much more that we have to investigate, but certainly I believe that Donald Trump Jr Will be asked. I'm certainly going to ask he come before the House Intelligence Committee as well.

TAPPER: I'd like to know more about what you just said because, obviously, Jared Kushner and the Trump campaign, and Brad Pascual, who ran the data operation, were very proud of their data operation. And there was a story in "McClatchy" saying the House and Senate Intelligence Committees are looking into whether there was any data that was shared in any way with anyone that could have gotten to any outside operative. Are you saying that the House Intelligence Committee has found that information and that the information was shared?

SPEIER: No. I'm actually saying that I've read the same article that you have, and the extent to which its true, would be very explosive.

TAPPER: Right. But nothing has been proven yet?

SPEIER: Nothing yet, no.

TAPPER: Let me ask you also about the discussions that President Trump and President Macron had when it came to what should happen next in Syria and in Iraq, given what is being billed as an eventuality that ISIS will be as defeated, at least as much as ISIS can be defeated, as much as you can defeat an idea. What do you think should happen? What is the goal in Syria after ISIS is defeated, should that happen?

SPEIER: Well, you know, ISIS is one terrorist group. There will be -- it's like a hybrid. They'll be another head that will pop up. We have to are very vigilant in the Middle East. I think that certainly the Russians, Vladimir Putin is not going to want to see the Syrian leader in a position where he's going to be removed. There's got to be some accommodation. Maybe dividing up Syria differently. It was somewhat random when it was done originally. So we could see a division of areas that would give essential peace and maybe less warfare that's been going on so far.

TAPPER: Do you think the Kurds should be given their own territory?

SPEIER: I would be open to that, to tell you the truth.

[13:45:07] TAPPER: All right. Congresswoman Jackie Speier, thank you so much. Really appreciate it.

We're going to take a very quick break. When we come back, we're going to talk more about President Trump and President Macron, what they talked about, what they did not talk about. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome back. We're continuing with our coverage of President Trump's trip to France.

My panel is back with me. We have Gloria Borger and Nia-Malika Henderson, and former chairman of the House Intelligence Committee Mike Rogers. Just joining us is Margaret Talev, a senior White House correspondent from "Bloomberg News," as well as our political commentator, David Urban, who was a senior adviser of the Donald Trump presidential campaign. Steve Israel, a former Congressman, Democrat from New York. He also chairs the Global Institute at Long Island University. And, Chairman Rogers, I want to go with you for a second because there

was a discussion of terrorism in this briefing. Obviously, France and the United States share a lot of counterterrorism efforts. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[13:50:22] TRUMP: We also face grave threats from terrorist organizations that wage war on innocent lives. Tomorrow will mark one year since a joyous Bastille Day celebration in Nice turned into a massacre. We all remember that, how horrible that was. We mourn the 86 lives that were stolen, and we pray for their loved ones. We also renew our resolve to stand united against these enemies of humanity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: What can be done more than the way France and the United States are already cooperating? Because my impression is that it's pretty close cooperation.

MIKE ROGERS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: It is. It can get better. They talked about -- I didn't see it in this clip, but this is really important. What we saw with all the pressure with ISIS and al Qaeda and al Nusra and other offshoot groups, they were moving operations into Northern Africa and Southern Africa to try to set up a place for what's next. And so the French have been very aggressive in places like Mali, Chad, and other places of which we can help them. But because of our strained resources, we need countries like France to do it. So I think this is a very important conversation for them to have. And it's good for a united front on where they're going to and where they -- meaning the terrorist groups, ISIS and others, are going to end up. Because they will move. We saw that with al Qaeda. We're seeing it with ISIS. Including, by the way, places in Iraq, places in Afghanistan. And of course, Africa is ripe for them. And so this conversation, I can't tell you, it makes me feel better that they're having that conversation.

And it was interesting to me that they brought General McMaster, who's their national security adviser. He wouldn't normally come on a trip like this but it tells me that they are having senior, high-level conversations about better cooperation. And it's not better as it was bad getting better. It means, can it be more robust? Is there more that we can do? And I think by seeing that, in the combination with the president's comments, I'm going to, you know, wager a good amount of money that what comes next is a more robust plan of French operations against ISIS and al Qaeda, as well as their help through intelligence and other means in Syria.

TAPPER: There was another issue that was brought up, interestingly. President Trump called on a reporter with, I think, a Hong Kong-based Chinese television station. Was asked about Chinese President Xi. Kind of an interesting day to ask that question, given the fact that a Chinese dissident, who had won the Nobel Peace Prize, Liu Xiaobo, died in custody. He was in the hospital. But it has caused a lot of human rights organizations and Senators to issue blistering comments about President Xi of China. But this is what President Trump had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Well, he's a friend of mine. I have great respect for him. We've gotten to know each other very well. A great leader. He's a very talented man. I think he's a very good man. He loves China. I can tell you, he loves China. He wants to do what's right for China.

We've asked him for some assistance with respect to North Korea. Probably, he could do a little bit more, but we'll find out. We're now working on some trade deals.

He's been very nice. He's let, as you know, beef go back in, certain financing go back in, credit card financing and various other things go back in, at my request, which is a great thing for our farmers. So a lot of good things are happening. But we're going to be working on some very major trade components.

But President Xi is a terrific guy. I like being with him a lot. And he's a very special person.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Let me bring in David Urban, who worked on the Trump campaign, and also Steve Israel, a former Democratic congressman.

David, lot of Republican Senators today criticizing President Xi. Was this a missed opportunity for President Trump to say something about human rights, given the death of the Nobel Peace Prize laureate and Chinese dissident, Liu Xiaobo, who died in custody today?

DAVID URBAN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Jake, so, I don't know if it was a missed opportunity. I do know that the -- that the President Trump and his staff have been working on what the next steps are with North Korea. I'm not quite sure of why the question was asked or how the question was posed or what the ultimate objective was there. But I don't know, you don't know, and the members of the Hill don't know what's going on behind the scenes with North Korea, with the Chinese. We're about to come out with, I think, some pretty strong sanctions against the Chinese on steel and other things. And this may have been an effort to kind of settle some rough seas that are coming ahead.

[13:55:18] TAPPER: Let me read McCain's statement: "This death of Liu Xiaobo in a Chinese prison represents an egregious violation of the fundamental human rights for which Dr. Xiaobo spend his life fighting, unfortunately. And as Dr. Xiaobo would have wanted everyone to remember today, this is only the latest example of Communist China's assault on human rights, democracy and freedom."

That's from Republican Senator John McCain.

Congressman Israel, to be fair, to play devil's advocate here, as David just represented, there's a lot going on behind the scenes that might be more important than making a statement about human rights. Do you buy that argument? STEVE ISRAEL, CHAIR, GLOBAL INSTITUTE AT LONG ISLAND UNIVERSITY &

FORMER NEW YORK CONGRESSMAN: No. You know what? I get it. I understand it. You know, look, a few weeks ago, there was a moment with President Macron when Vladimir Putin stood next to the president and President Macron took him on, on human rights violations in Russia. There could have been that moment where President Trump today took on President Xi on human rights, and he didn't do it.

But I think, quite honestly, that it's more importantly for us to focus on the overall issues here. You just saw a press conference with two polar opposites, who have one common political need. President Trump's political need wasn't to talk about human rights in China, quite honestly. It was to demonstrate that he could engage a world leader and have a successful trip that demonstrates converging interests, as Mike Rogers talked about, my former colleague, on counterterrorism, on West African, North Africa, on ISIS, ISIL, Syria, et cetera. And President Macron's interest was to continue to assert himself on the world stage.

This is a fascinating guy, Jake. This is a guy who loves a vacuum. He saw a vacuum in France's domestic politics and filled it. He sees a vacuum now on the world stage. President Trump can't go to London. Tensions with Germany. He is becoming an interocular between Europe and President Trump. I spoke a French diplomatic official earlier this morning, who said we want to do this meeting because we want to establish the roots between our two countries and tell President Trump France and Europe needs a multilateral United States, and I think President Macron achieved that objective.

TAPPER: All right, Margaret, let me bring you in, because I do want to ask you what you think about President Trump talking about something could happen with respect to the Paris Accord. We'll see what happens. Do you really think that something might happen?

MARGARET TALEV, SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPODNENT, BLOOMBERG NEWS: I think when talking about climate change is the safety valve against talking about the other stuff. It tells you a lot about what's on the president's mind.

But the French president's response was even more interesting. He said, those are the president's campaign considerations. I'm going to keep working, step by step, basically with the rest of the world, to move this along. That's what stood out to me.

TAPPER: But do you think -- so you do or do not think anything's actually going to change, necessarily.

TALEV: If it does or doesn't, what Macron is saying is it's irrelevant. If President Trump feels like the business community is coming over, he may see steps that I haven't seen him take yet. But what the French leader is saying is, it doesn't matter. The rest of the world is going there.

TAPPER: All right.

That's it for me. The news continues right after this quick break. Stay with us.

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