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Nunes Explains Briefing President; Three Killed in London Attack; Arrests in Anti-Terror Raids. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired March 23, 2017 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 p.m. her in Washington, 5:00 p.m. in London. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

Let's begin with the political drama that's playing out minute by minute here in Washington. After years of vowing to repeal and replace Obamacare, can Republicans finally deliver or will they come up short?

Right now, we don't even know when the vote on the House floor will take place or what is even in the latest version of the bill.

The scramble by House Republicans to pass their health care bill will be a major focus of today's White House press briefing. It's set to begin later this hour. We'll bring it to you live. That's coming up.

The stakes clearly are enormous for President Trump and House leaders. If they succeed, it's a big win for the president in need of a major victory. If they fail, it's a major blow to the Trump agenda.

Just a little while ago, members of the House Freedom Caucus arrived at the White House to meet with the president. He's hoping to win over the conservative lawmakers. We hope to speak to some of them after that meeting.

Meanwhile, any concessions moving forward will be significant. They're trying to get the support of that Freedom Caucus, but it could be the process alienate moderate Republicans.

The crucial number for House Republicans route now, 21. That's the most Republican votes they could afford to lose and still get their health care bill approved. That's assuming all the members of the House of Representatives actually show up for the vote.

Let's bring in CNN White House Correspondent Sara Murray from the White House and our Congressional Correspondent Phil Mattingly. He's up on Capitol Hill.

Sara, we mentioned President Trump's meeting with members of the Freedom Caucus that's underway right now. How intense is this final push by the president to repeal and replace Obamacare to get this Republican legislation passed? SARA MURRAY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, I think what

you're seeing is a president who knows this is his first major item on his agenda that he needs to be successful in this in order to move forward with some of the other big things he wants to do.

We know that they've been courting the House Freedom Caucus aggressively. They've made visits to the White House. They've made phone calls.

But, as usual, legislating is a very messy process. And that is certainly true in this case as well.

My colleague, Jeff Zeleny, was pointing out earlier today that there's a little bit of confusion because you have Steve Bannon, you have President Trump, you have Vice President Pence, you have Kellyanne Conway all making phone calls. All making promises.

And so, there could be a few mixed messages along the way. And, of course, all of this calls into question whether they really can make a deal and get to a vote by tonight -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Let me go to Phil. The president's efforts, are they paying off where you are on Capitol Hill in the House of Representatives? That's where it really counts. Give us the latest CNN whip count.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, certainly there's been movement forward but it seems like every time there is a step forward, based on the White House efforts, there also appears to be a step back.

And if you take a look, Wolf, there are currently 29 individuals up here who are either leaning no or are outright opposed to that bill. You, obviously, made clear that is way more than they need right now. And that's why these lobbying efforts matters so much.

But I think it's important to note, the president working very hard on that conservative House Freedom Caucus where you need to look at this as, kind of, a pendulum. If the bill starts to moves toward conservatives, you have a big problem with the moderates.

Right behind me, Wolf, about 15 feet away, a group of those moderates of are meeting behind closed doors. I can tell you, when potential changes were announced last night, when they were presented behind closed doors by leadership to this group of moderates last night, there was anger, there was frustration and there was a lot of concerns.

You're dealing with a lot of issues right now that could move towards the conservatives but cause moderates to drop off. And that's a needle that they're trying to thread and they just haven't figured out a way to yet -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Do you know some of these last-minute changes that are actually being made to the bill to win over some of these lawmakers, Phil? MATTINGLY: So, the biggest one that we've seen right now, and this is

a very big, a very substantive change, something conservatives, the House Freedom Caucus, has been calling for is that they have at least gotten the idea across that House leadership has agreed to open the possibility of stripping the essential health benefits that were provided by Obamacare.

These are federal, kind of, realities, requirements of the central health benefits in any insurance plan. These conservatives say this is one of the primary reasons that premiums have been driven up.

But the big problem with that is moderates are very uncomfortable with this. This is the issue that was presented to them last night. This is the issue they're meeting about behind me right now. They might not come along with this.

And if you gain 10 or 15 conservatives because you add this to the bill but lose 10, 15 or 20 moderates, Wolf, it just doesn't matter in the end.

BLITZER: Sara, the health care issue is sure to be a major topic at the White House press briefing with Sean Spicer that's coming up shortly this hour. Give us a preview of what we can expect to hear.

[13:05:03] MURRAY: Oh, absolutely, Wolf. Yesterday, we heard Sean Spicer say there is no plan B. And, of course, that is what my colleague, Phil Mattingly, has been hearing from the Hill as well.

This is it. This is his, sort of, signature first legislative item. So, I think we're going to hear from Sean Spicer today how far they are willing to go to appease these House Freedom Caucus members. He's certainly going to be asked about that.

Whether they do actually believe they can get a deal and get a vote today or whether we might see this timeline shifting a little bit. I think those are all going to be big questions as well as just what the White House is willing to put on the table -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Sara Murray, Phil Mattingly, guys, we'll get back to you.

Once again, we're standing by for that Sean Spicer briefing.

Our other big story right now, CNN has learned new details of the FBI investigation into potential links between individuals associated with the Trump campaign and the Russian government.

Evan Perez is joining us now. Evan, you were among our reporters who broke this story along with Pamela Brown and Shimon Prokupecz. Give us the very latest.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, right now, we've learned from officials we've been talking to that the FBI has information that indicates, at least suggests, that there are members of -- people associated with the Trump campaign who are in touch and communicating with people who are associated with the Russian government. And the concern there is whether or not there was any coordination. This is coordination, of course, that the FBI director mentioned when he testified before a House hearing on Monday.

The question here now, Wolf, is that some people are looking at the evidence that they have in front of them or the intelligence that they're looking at. And some people see that, perhaps, someone was trying to give a thumbs up for information to be coordinated, to be released by the Russian government, the Russian intelligence services.

Others are looking at the same evidence and what they see is we don't see -- we don't see the same inference from the same information that they're taking a look at. So, you have two sets of people in the same investigation who are coming to different conclusions.

Obviously, there is still no direct conclusion that there was collusion or coordination, at this point. The FBI is still investigating -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Give us a little insight in what the FBI director, James Comey, knew when he actually made some of those statements at that House Intelligence Committee hearing on Monday, because there were several bombshells there.

PEREZ: Well, exactly. And there are a lot of people who were kind of taken aback by what the FBI director said. They were expecting him to confirm, at least, that there was an investigation. He went a lot further and said that they were looking at the possible coordination between members or people associated with the Trump campaign and members or officials affiliated of with the Russian government. That was much further than anyone expected him to go to, Wolf.

And he also said that they were looking for indications of a crime. And, at this point, what we know is that the -- this is exactly what the FBI director was referring to. He knew that this evidence existed.

Again, it's not enough yet for us to say or for them to say that there is direct collusion and certainly evidence enough for them to say that, but it is definitely the focus of this investigation now by the FBI.

BLITZER: Do we know, Evan, who is being investigated?

PEREZ: We don't know exactly who these people are who are being looked at for possible coordination or collusion. What we do know is that at least four people who are associated with the Trump campaign, we know Carter Page, we know Roger Stone, we know Michael Flynn and we know Paul Manafort are being looked at and scrutinized by the FBI for their contacts with people associated with the Russian government. And so, that's where the focus is, at this point.

What's interesting, at this point, Wolf, is that the FBI is looking -- is running into a few new obstacles because of all the publicity related to this investigation and all the press coverage. We know -- we're told that some of the communications between some of these associates in Trump world and the Russians has ceased.

And we also are told that the Russians have changed the way they communicate. So, that makes it all the more difficult for the FBI to monitor what they're doing.

BLITZER: Evan Perez doing excellent reporting with our team. Thank you so much.

PEREZ: Thank you.

BLITZER: I want to go to CNN's Senior Congressional Reporter Manu Raju. He's also live up on Capitol Hill where the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee is now explaining his decision to brief the news media and the president over at the White House before actually briefing members of his own committee about surveillance that may have picked up Trump team communications.

Manu, apparently, Devin Nunes now offering some sort of apology to his colleagues. What are you hearing?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER: Yes, that's right. Actually, they had the closed-door briefing of the full House Intelligence Committee earlier today in which Mr. Nunes told the members that he's sorry. Sorry for telling the president of the United States and the press about this new information that shows that there was some surveillance activity that picked up some communications of Trump officials talking with, apparently, foreign nationals sometime during the transition period last year.

[13:10:12] Nunes went out and told the press, told the president of the United States but did not tell Democrats on the committee even as this committee is investigating Russia, the Russia meddling and any of those alleged contacts and coordination that occurred between Trump officials and Russian officials, meaning that some Democrats believe that he has compromised this investigation.

Now, earlier today, I had a chance to ask Mr. Nunes specifically, where did you get this information from yesterday and was it from the White House? He wouldn't say. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Did this information you got --

REP. DEVIN NUNES (R), CALIFORNIA, CHAIRMAN, INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: As you know, we have to keep our sources and methods here very, very quiet.

The president didn't invite me over. I called -- I called down there and invited myself because I thought he need to understand what I saw and that he needed to try to get that information because he has every right -- has the right to see it.

REP. JACKIE SPEIER (D), CALIFORNIA, INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: He apologized for not informing the ranking member.

RAJU: Do you feel confident he can run this committee?

SPEIER: I am not confident he can run this committee. I am of the opinion that this was orchestrated, either from the White House or by, possibly, someone associated with the White House.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: So, Wolf, the big question is now whether or not this committee can credibly go forward with an investigation. That's one thing that Democrats are raising. Nancy Pelosi, the Minority Leader, believes that Mr. Nunes should step aside.

But Nunes is signaling that he is still planning to move forward but they are -- the members on the committee expect to see this information that the chairman saw yesterday, that he revealed yesterday, as early as tomorrow.

We'll see if anybody changes their tune after they see what the chairman publicly revealed -- Wolf.

BLITZER: The president, Manu, yesterday, said he feels, quote, "somewhat vindicated" by the comments by Devin Nunes, the House Intelligence Committee Chairman.

And he also told "Time" magazine this. And let me put it up on the screen. So that means I'm right. Nunes said the surveillance appears to have been incidental collection that does not appear to have been related to concerns over Russia. I don't know where these wiretaps came from. They came from some place. This is what they should find out.

But the fact remains, Democrats, even some Republicans, are now questioning whether this committee can go forward and lead a credible investigation with Nunes atop that investigation.

RAJU: Yes, that's right. That's what you heard Adam Schiff, the top Democrat, say yesterday. Is Mr. Nunes the chairman who's running this full committee and this bipartisan investigation or is he a surrogate of the White House?

And I asked Mr. Nunes that directly today and he pushed back on that suggestion, believed that they could move forward.

But even though the president said that he feels vindicated, even Devin Nunes says that he shouldn't feel vindicated because there is nothing that he has seen in the intelligence reports that back up the president's claim that he was wiretapped under the orders of Barack Obama. Only that some of these communications that occurred between Trump transition officials were picked up in surveillance reports and that was done legally, he says.

And I am told by other members on the committee that that information was actually discussions about how the Trump team would form its new government. One person said it was actually some more gossip than anything else. So, not the president being spied on by President Obama. There's nothing that vindicates him on that particular issue. But, Wolf, clearly, this decision by Mr. Nunes to go forward yesterday has really impacted this investigation and Democrats believe undercut his ability to put forward a bipartisan report -- Wolf.

BLITZER: And very quickly, Manu, the information, the discussions that Nunes is talking about, occurred after the November eighth election, during the transition, not before. Is that right?

RAJU: Yes, that's right. During the transition period. We know -- but that's all we really know, at this point. So, clearly, not during the election period in which the president has been saying so far -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes, and in his four tweets that he had, what, almost three weeks ago. He was saying that President Obama ordered the surveillance, ordered the wiretapping of Trump Tower during the campaign. Obviously, that's a very, very significant difference.

Manu Raju up on Capitol Hill also doing a great job for us.

Let's talk about all of this with our panel. Joining us our Chief Political Analyst Gloria Borger, our CNN Political Director David Chalian and CNN Political Commentator and the Washington correspondent for "The New Yorker" magazine, Ryan Lizza.

So, is it enough, the little apology he gave his fellow intelligence committee members today, Devin Nunes?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, we're going to have to see.

Honestly, I think that there were members of that committee on the Republican side who believe that he acted in a very rash way. And there are Democrats who believe he's now disqualified himself from being any kind of a person who ought to lead an impartial investigation. And there were Republicans, I'm told, who were trying to stop him from going down to the White House with whatever information he had, but that he felt he had to do it. He didn't listen to them. He didn't like the fact that Adam Schiff spoke for 15 minutes during the day of the Comey hearing, and he felt that he owed it to the White House to do this.

And now the Democrats, and you heard Nancy Pelosi today call him a stooge and say that, you know, what he was doing was just providing political cover for the White House. Now Republicans are going to try and raise money off of this feeling the president was vindicated, as he said - as he said yesterday.

So, in the end, I think you'll going to have more calls for a special commission, an independent counsel, which, of course, the White House and Republicans don't want. But there are Republicans on the committee who are trying to get, you know, who are trying to get past this because they don't want that to occur. The question is whether they ever can. WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I remember at that hearing, though, on

Monday, the chairman, Devin Nunes, he said, I recognize the ranking member for 15 minutes. He's the one who said you have 15 minutes.

BORGER: Right. I don't think he really wanted to. I don't think he -

BLITZER: But he - he agreed to do that. That was his announcement.

Go ahead. How do you see this, David?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, I - I think that Devin Nunes has done himself a lot of harm. I mean I don't think there's any question about that. And as Gloria is saying, the calls for the independent or select committee or an independent investigation, those are no longer just coming from Democrats. I mean we see John McCain out there now really beating that drum. And so I - Republicans clearly want to keep that at bay.

BORGER: Yes.

CHALIAN: But they've got work to do to make sure - the American people, I don't think, can watch the House Intelligence Committee process at this stage of the game, even after his apology, and think that they're getting a totally independent and unbiased kind of investigation.

BLITZER: Ryan, listen to Nancy Pelosi, the Democratic leader in the House, the minority leader, react to the decision by Devin Nunes to brief the president and the news media, for that matter, before actually speaking to members of his own committee.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D), MINORITY LEADER: He was part of the Trump transition. All of this relates to Trump transition, by and large. I just - I think it's very clear he himself - I don't know if that was a cry for help or let me out of here or whatever that was, but it was highly unusual.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Go ahead.

RYAN LIZZA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You know, and I think what she's implying there is maybe Nunes wanted to blow up his own investigation. In other words, maybe he knew the ramifications of what he did by going to the White House would be to make the House Intel Committee investigation just seem overtly partisan. So I think two things happens before this. One, he and Schiff agreed to a very broad investigation. You listen to the Democrats, they were very, very pleased with what Nunes is allowing them to investigate, collusion, the full scope of the Russian campaign, all of the top things that the Democrats want and Republicans basically wanted an investigation into the leaks. They got that.

Then, Comey comes along on Monday and he starts to cooperate with Schiff and with Nunes. And suddenly Schiff changed his tune and said, all right, maybe this investigation will actually work in the end. So I think Democrats now have this decision to make, do they - do they continue to participate in the investigation and try and make it work, or do they in a sense boycott it.

BORGER: I think they boycott it.

LIZZA: But I think after Monday, Democrats were happy about how that House Intelligence investigation was going. It was the Republicans who said, wait a second, did we let the genie out of the bottle here?

BORGER: Well, you know, and maybe, you know, maybe Nunes will feel like he's been chastised correctly. I mean he looked a little bit like the, you know, that he had been taken to the woodshed by his own members. And since he's apologized for it, maybe there is an opening for the Democrats to kind of, with a chastised chairman -

LIZZA: Yes.

BORGER: Who's now, you know, on notice, maybe there's an opportunity to work with him in a way and to kind of - and to kind of get - get around this. We'll have to see what Schiff says about it, but maybe they'll (ph) use it.

BLITZER: And it will be interesting at this briefing, David, Sean Spicer, the briefing that's coming up in a few moments, it will be interesting to see how he responds to all of it. We know how the president responded when he says he feels partially vindicated and then he was - in that "Time" magazine interview, and you read the whole thing -

CHALIAN: I did.

BLITZER: All of us did, in that "Time" magazine interview he basically says, you see, I was right.

CHALIAN: Yes. Well, I do think that the president's reaction is a good hint as to what Sean Spicer is going to say from the podium in the briefing. And as Gloria referenced, I mean the fact that you have the House campaign arm, the NRCC, the National Republican Congressional Committee, putting out a fund-raising blast -

BORGER: Right.

CHALIAN: With the subject line of like that says, truth be told -

[13:20:01] BORGER: Right.

CHALIAN: Barack Obama spied on Donald Trump. I mean none of that was actually adjudicated yesterday in anything Devin Nunes did. Even Devin Nunes said so. But now the entire campaign apparatus of the Republican Party, the RNC sent out a fundraising appeal, subject line, "vindicated."

BORGER: Right. CHALIAN: They are all jumping on this, fully behind Trump on this, because they are desperately trying to muddy the water on those tweets that nobody can defend.

BORGER: So they got -

BLITZER: Yes. All right, everybody -

BORGER: And they got a talking point yesterday.

BLITZER: Everybody stand by.

We're going to have live coverage of the Sean Spicer briefing. That's coming up.

Police say, meanwhile, they've identified the London terrorist as ISIS claims responsibility. We're also going live to London for the very latest.

Plus, we're only moments away, once again, from the White House press briefing. We're looking at live pictures. Reporters, camera crews now heading inside. Sean Spicer will likely field questions on a whole range of issues, including the health care vote that's upcoming, Russia, the House Intelligence Committee Chairman Devin Nunes, a lot more.

We'll be right back.

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[13:25:12] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

THERESA MAY, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Yesterday, an act of terrorism tried to silence our democracy, but today, we meet as normal, as generations have done before us, and as future generations will continue to do, to deliver a simple message, we are not afraid.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The British Prime Minister Theresa May speaking about Wednesday's terror attack outside the Houses of Parliament.

This story is rapidly unfolding. Here's what's we know right now.

Police have identified the attacker as a British-born man, 52-year-old Khalid Masood. A U.K. official says it's too early to say if ISIS had any operational attacks to Masood. This after a news agency linked to the terror group claimed, and I'm quoting now, "a soldier of Islamic State," end quote, carried out the operation in response to calls to target citizens of coalition countries.

The attack claimed three lives, including American Kurt Cochran, and injured 40 people. President Trump tweeted his condolences. "A great American, Kurt Cochran, was killed in the London terror attack. My prayers and condolences are with his family and friends."

Police arrested eight people in a series of raids in Birmingham and around Britain.

Let's get the latest on the investigation. Our international diplomatic editor Nic Robertson is in Birmingham, our senior international correspondent Nick Paton Walsh is joining us from Westminster.

Nick - first, Nick Paton Walsh, you're there on Westminster Bridge where the attack unfolded. What have you learned, first of all, about the attack?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Khalid Masood is his name. As you said, a U.K. officials I was speaking to saying it is, quote, "too early to tell" if ISIS' mark (ph) affiliative news agency suggests he was, quote, "one of their soldiers." Their language suggests some distance.

And, of course, this official goes on to say, (INAUDIBLE) very good at retrospectively claiming attacks as being affiliated or part of their broader enterprise globally. But none of that makes any difference for the appalling scenes that were here just over 24-hours ago. This is the curb which Masood mounted in his Hyundai SUV, inflicting so many of those people - 40 people's injuries, killing the American Kurt Cochran out right here. His wife, Melissa, can you believe it, Wolf, they were here on their 25th wedding anniversary in celebration. Melissa, hurt in the ribs and the leg and on the face. She's in hospital recovering now. The second of the three victims of Masood killed here, Aysha Frade, a 43-year-old Spanish teacher.

He then continued in his Hyundai. And just to sort of remind you here, as some of the amateur video show terrifying scenes, people flying into oncoming traffic. One woman thrown or perhaps jumping into the River Thames next to me here. She was injured, fished out by authorities about an hour or so later.

But he continued in that Hyundai past now what is a makeshift memorial for those who lost their lives here, and then passed that police tape, crashing into the railings there. Khalid Masood then gets out his Hyundai, takes what looks like a kitchen knife, tries to get into parliament. That is where his third victim, PC Keith Palmer, tries to stop him. He is then stabbed, fatal injuries, before Masood is then shot dead.

But the broader question now being asked by authorities surely is how did this 52-year-old man with a petty criminal record end up committing a crime as devastating as this? The worst act of terror inflicted on the U.K. since 2005, Wolf, right at the heart of British democracy here. We're standing beneath a stunning cultural landmark, Big Ben. Terrifying scenes, Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes, we were watching it unfold yesterday, 24 hours ago. Nic Robertson, you're in Birmingham right now where the police conducted a number of raids overnight. Tell us what they found there and what their suspicions are.

NIC ROBERTSON, INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Wolf, they're continuing to search the premises behind me. Three people were taken away in the middle of the night. A raid by armed police. That's unusual in Britain. But the details that they're beginning to release now about the attacker due indicate that he was living in this part of the country, West Midlands, they say.

Khalid Masood, 52 years old. Born just to the southeast of London, but had moved to this area, the West Midlands, sometime fairly recently. The police say that he used several aliases in the past. That he had a very violent history. His violence goes back three decades, 1983, his first offense for criminal damage. His most recent offense, 2003, for possession of a knife. An omen, if you will there, for the attack that was witnessed yesterday.

[13:29:52] The British authorities did know about him. They had investigated him for connections to radical Islamism groups in the past. Decided that he was peripheral to that. And according to the police - according to the latest police statement, that he wasn't under observation, wasn't under investigation for anything in the recent years. They're saying that