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Trump on Russian Hacking; Priorities for Republican Congress and Trump; Senate Dems Target Trump Nominees. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired January 2, 2017 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:30:12] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello. I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 p.m. here in Washington, 9:00 p.m. in Istanbul, 2:30 a.m. Tuesday in Pyongyang, North Korea. Wherever you are watching, from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

We are following developments on several major stories this hour.

Election cyber meddling. Donald Trump promised to reveal inside information about the hacking. The president-elect sits down this week for an intelligence briefing on Russia's meddling during the election, but he is once again raising doubts about whether Russia was responsible.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: I know a lot about hacking, and hacking is a very hard thing to prove. So, it could be somebody else. And I also know things that other people don't know, and so they cannot be sure of the situation.

UNIDENTIFIED REPROTER: What do you know that other people don't know?

TRUMP: You'll find out on Tuesday or Wednesday.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Also this hour, terror claim. ISIS says it was behind the deadly New Year's attack on a popular nightclub in Turkey. 39 people were killed, dozens injured. Meanwhile, the manhunt for the gunman intensifies. Police are circulating this picture of the suspected attacker from surveillance video. CNN cannot independently verify the authenticity of the photo.

And nuclear North Korea. Leader Kim Jong-Un says his country is close to testing an intercontinental ballistic missile. Development of missile technology could deliver a nuclear weapon, and that would be a dangerous escalation by North Korea.

We begin with the Trump transition right now. New claims about cyber meddling during the 2016 presidential election. What does President-elect Trump know that other members of the current administration and so many Democratic and Republican U.S. Senators don't know as well? He says he'll share his inside information as soon as tomorrow.

Here's what the incoming White House press secretary, Sean Spicer, said on CNN's "New Day."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEAN SPICER, CHIEF STRATEGIST, RNC & INCOMING WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: It's not a question of necessarily revealing. Remember, the president-elect is privy to a lot of classified information, intelligence reports. He gets briefed by his national security team on a daily basis. So, as president-elect, he is privy to information that most people aren't, and he is able to understand what the intelligence is and draw conclusions from that. He is going to talk about his conclusions and where he thinks things stand. So, he is not going to reveal anything that was privileged or shared with him that's classified.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

Our correspondent, Jessica Schneider, is outside Trump Tower in New York City for us.

Jessica, the president-elect continues to cast doubt on the intelligence that Russia was behind the hacking. What is he saying about that?

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN CORRESPODNENT: Wolf, Donald Trump, the president-elect, continues to play it a bit coy and cryptic. When he rang in the New Year, he told reporters that he does, in fact, have intelligence information that others lack. When he was pressed, he refused to say. He said he would instead reveal it later this week after he meets with intelligence officials. But, of course, the president-elect continues to cast doubt on U.S. intelligence conclusions that Russians were, in fact, responsible for the hacking and cyber intrusions during the election season.

But then, of course, Donald Trump actually pivoted, saying that nothing online is safe, and actually urged Americans to start doing things the old-fashioned way.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: It very important. If you have something really important, write it out and have it delivered it by courier, the old- fashioned way, because, I'll tell you what, no computer is safe. I don't care what they say, no computer is safe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Donald Trump continuing to cast doubt on intelligence, but, of course, his incoming press secretary, Sean Spicer, pushed back a little bit, saying that the intelligence reports, since they are not final, Donald Trump is hoping to get more information that will help in his conclusion once he takes office, whether or not those sanctions against Russia were justified -- Wolf?

BLITZER: Jessica, the Trump transition team, meanwhile, is back at work with some key cabinet positions remaining to be filled. What are some of the major ones that remain open?

SCHNEIDER: Well, the two key positions, Wolf, remain secretary of Veterans Affairs as well as secretary of agriculture. And the pool for secretary of Veterans Affairs actually got a little bit smaller this weekend when Cleveland Clinic president and CEO, Dr. Toby Cosgrove, withdrew his name from consideration. A spokesperson for the Cleveland Clinic said that, while Dr. Cosgrove was very interested in this position, there were a number of high-profile projects that are still ongoing at the Cleveland Clinic that he wants to see through.

Also, when it comes to agriculture secretary, some reports now say that Sonny Perdue, the former Georgia governor, is the leading contender right now. But a few other positions that need to be filled as well, U.S. trade representative, as well as solicitor general. And interestingly, the name being batted around for solicitor general happens to be top Trump advisor, Kellyanne Conway's husband, George Conway -- Wolf?

[13:05:02] BLITZER: Director of National Intelligence, that position remains to be filled as well.

All right. Jessica, thank you very much.

One quick question, though, quickly, before I let you go. Jessica, Trump has been tweeting, once again, in the last hour or so about another issue, the horrible homicide rate in Chicago this past year. Tell us about that.

SCHNEIDER: Yeah, that's right. We saw the final numbers come out, out of Chicago, and the homicide rate, the highest it's been since 1997. Donald Trump today weighing in on Twitter, tweeting out this saying, "Chicago murder rate is record-setting. 4,331 shooting victims with 762 murders in 2016. If mayor can't do it, he must ask for federal help." Of course, that a bit of a dig at Chicago's Mayor Rahm Emanuel, the former chief of staff for President Obama. So, Donald Trump weighing into this, which will surely be a big issue in the coming year here.

And, of course, President Obama will be in his hometown of Chicago on Tuesday giving a speech. Wondering if he will weigh in on the murder rate and this crime issue as well -- Wolf?

BLITZER: 762 people were murdered in Chicago, the city of Chicago, this past year. More than 4,000 were shot. Hard to believe those numbers are taking place. Very hard. Highest numbers in 19 years in Chicago, as you point out.

Jessica, thank you very much.

The Trump transition team, meanwhile, says intelligence on the election hacking his not final. And his incoming press secretary is warning about jumping to conclusions. But the president-elect says he will meet with intelligence leaders for a briefing this week.

Let's discuss with our panel. Zeke Miller is here. He is political reporter for "Time" magazine; Nia-Malika Henderson is our senior political reporter; David Chalian is our political director; and Dana Bash is CNN's chief political correspondent.

Dana, what do you make of the continued skepticism that the president-elect is showing about Russia's involvement in the hacking?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: He is continuing to fly in the face of not just 17 intelligence operations but also fellow Republicans on Capitol Hill. Almost to a person, they say that they just think he's wrong, Russia was involved. But this is why he said, over and over again, during the campaign, that he wanted to get in and do things differently and look at things differently.

The fact that he is, you know, sort of, over and over again, reminding people in the intelligence community got weapons of mass destruction in Iraq wrong, my understanding is not making people in the intelligence community, whom he will need, very happy, but perhaps it will be different once he gets this briefing and, more importantly, once he gets into the White House and has people whom he knows and who he trusts with him doing the presidential daily brief.

BLITZER: The intelligence community, David, you and I remember, they did get it wrong on the weapons of mass destruction, stockpiles that really didn't exist in Iraq leading up to the war in 2003.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: They did. There's no doubt about that. We also know that whole issue of supporting or not supporting the Iraq war, based on that faulty intelligence, was at issue during this presidential campaign when Donald Trump was denying that he actually did support the invasion. As we know, we heard him say that on the Howard Stern radio show.

But, Wolf, what is interesting to hear Sean Spicer this morning, in trying to interpret what Donald Trump is saying here, it raises the question, I think, of, throughout the Trump presidency is he going to take every bit of intelligence and not draw conclusions, because he can't say that it is conclusive. Well, I don't know any intelligence report that says conclusive, 100 percent fact, here it is. That's not the way the intel community delivers information, as you know, to a president. So, they try to draw the best that they can, connect dots as best they can, and say here are some conclusions of this information, but nothing is 100 percent. But It raises the fundamental question of, how will Donald Trump make his decisions if he is not trusting the information he is getting from the intel community?

BLITZER: He is going to get another briefing, presumably, by the leaders of the intelligence community, as opposed to some deputy who has been briefed during the presidential daily brief.

NI-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITCAL REPORTER: Right. And, presumably, he has some of this information already, the same information that some of the Senators have as well. But, so far, he has been remarkably consistent on this throughout this campaign, when he was just a candidate, casting doubt on this, essentially saying it was anybody but Russia.

What's striking about this is when he becomes president, if he has been so consistent in questioning and discrediting 17 intelligence agencies, how does he look at them as credible once he is in office, and how does he also have Americans believe that they're credible institutions, too? At some point, he is going to need these folks. He is going to want to make an argument about using force, or whatever it is, and so how does he say then that they're credible? It's sort of a question about his entire administration.

[13:10:11] CHALIAN: And what about the other avenues of information, intake that he is going to rely on if this is dismissed.

HENDERSON: Exactly. Rudy Giuliani, for instance, said he has to get his own people in there, but who are his own people? These are career folks. They're not political hacks. Also, how, again, do they become credible folks?

BLITZER: He has suggested, Zeke, that some of the intelligence is politicized by political hacks, if you will, which is a real slur on the intelligence community, the career professionals who try to do their best to give the president or the president-elect of the United States the best assessments they have.

ZEKE MILLER, POLITICAL REPORTER, TIME MAGAZINE: That's certainly been his accusation all throughout this campaign, especially around the Russian information. And we've seen the intelligence community giving leaks to the press saying they're frustrated by the way -- can they trust Donald Trump? Is he valuing their information? And also, trying to leak more of the information about the Russia hacks to the press as well. That maybe -- might not be helping their case in terms of proving how not to politicize. But that is going to be a major factor in the Trump administration, whether intelligence but also every other federal bureaucracy where he is going to try to shake things up. They are entrenched interests, entrenched ways of people who have been there for a long time, people who have been doing things a certain way for decades, and he is going to want to change -- rock the boat, and they're not going to sort of sit idly by. They are also actors in this Washington play.

BASH: Can we just also go back to the thing that he said about the fact that people should think about not using their computers so much and using couriers? It's a great stimulus program for the courier industry.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: But -- and the postal service, which, you know, we're not saying that we're against. We're all for. But you cannot put this genie back in the bottle. It's actually the way he operates. He doesn't e-mail. He uses his cell phone, but he apparently doesn't text or anything. So, he is operating, and has historically, aside from Twitter, which is obviously the most modern of issues and dynamics, but besides that, it's just not realistic. So, we do have to figure out a way to deal with this in a safe way, and I think he knows that. I think it's a stop gap measure --

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: -- but I think revealing in terms of who he is and who he operates.

BLITZER: He did say in terms of tomorrow or Wednesday, he would share information that only he has that the general public does not have. He doesn't get briefings, classified briefings, information the general public doesn't have. I assume he is going to share something like that without violating national security or classified information. The pressure is on him to deliver either Tuesday or Wednesday as he promised he would.

CHALIAN: Although, yes, the pressure is on. I doubt he feels any of that pressure, because all throughout the campaign and into this transition, there are many times that Donald Trump has promised to reveal some things, some piece of information, and hasn't followed through on that. That being said, thank goodness, he has information that we don't have or knows. It's exactly that kind of information that I think the American people are relying upon him to have and to formulate decisions on.

I do think he -- he has stopped -- the one thing I think that -- he has stopped ruling out Russia entirely. Like, he used to just say it could be this, this, and really could not be Russia at all. You don't hear him say any more that he disbelieves that Russia had any involvement or any action on this. I think he is laying the ground work perhaps to, again, say nothing is 100 percent conclusive, so you don't want to take actions without that kind of fact-based information that he is relying on. But I have a feeling he is laying the ground work to some somehow acknowledge Russia's involvement. Otherwise, he will just be on an island.

HENDERSON: Yeah. And this idea of we should just move on, right? Even if it was Russia, we should move on --

(CROSSTALK)

HENDERSON: -- we should essentially have the Trump version of a reset button with Putin. That seems to be where he is going, which --

(CROSSTALK)

HENDERSON: Yeah. I mean, the problem is Lindsey Graham is not going to have it, and John McCain and Democrats as well. They want to -- I think the Trump folks want to say this is a partisan issue. But it's not partisan if you have Lindsey Graham and John McCain pushing for tougher sanctions.

(CROSSTALK)

MILLER: He wants to hit that reset button, though, not just on Russia, issues like immigration, all the other rhetoric in the campaign. He wants to sort of start everything over on January 20, everything he talked about in the campaign, other than making America great again, to give me the opportunity to change all of that. And that's what a lot of his supporters want to hear as well.

BLITZER: You know, he was very complimentary to Vladimir Putin. Putin didn't retaliate for the expulsion of Russian diplomats from the United States. He said, you know, I'm going to wait to see what happens and Donald Trump is inaugurated and becomes the president of the United States. And he praised him, Donald Trump praised Putin in that tweet, as you saw.

BASH: Seeing a tweet of an 'atta boy from a president-elect to a leader like that was. We know what he has said about Vladimir Putin in the past, but to see that in his 100 whatever characters was really remarkable. Just one of a bazillion reminders of how different this is. And, you know, it could come back to bite him and maybe - maybe it's the most brilliant, new, geopolitical strategy that nobody ever thought of. Who knows.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, that's - exactly. Maybe it's this. Maybe - part of it is, because this has been happening in 140 character tweet bursts -

BASH: Yes, 140, right.

CHALIAN: We don't have full insight - full insight into the president- elect's think about -

BASH: Exactly.

CHALIAN: Because he just hasn't talked about it at length. One clue we got this morning was from Joe Scarborough, said that he had had a - a private conversation with him over the weekend and - and that Trump said to him, well, the last two administrations, after Putin invaded - after Russia invaded Georgia under the Bush administration and after they went into Crimea under Obama, the whole philosophy of the last two administrations was to put Putin in a box and in the corner and that that didn't work.

BASH: Exactly (ph).

CHALIAN: And so that he's trying something else, to open arms and try this. And if it doesn't work, he'll adjust. But that's all - that's like the most thinking we've heard through a media host from a private conversation. We need to hear Donald Trump sort of ruminate and think aloud about how he envisions this U.S./Russia relationship.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Let me put that - that tweet from Donald Trump about Putin up on the screen. There you see it right there. "Great move on delay by V. Putin. I always knew he was very smart!"

BASH: Sounds like a rapper V. Putin.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Yes. That's right, V. Putin. BLITZER: But that's a lot less than 140 characters, but go ahead.

HENDERSON: Yes. And, again, you go back to John McCain, you go back to Lindsey Graham. I'm sure their heads were exploding when they read this. I mean they think of Vladimir Putin very differently, as a murderer, as a thug, as the former head of the KGB. So he's certainly going up against those folks.

And I think we will see more of this when he's got his cabinet in place, when we have those confirmation hearings. We'll hear from Tillerson. What is the - what is sort of the Trump doctrine of the world? What is the Trump doctrine of Putin particularly? And certainly Republicans very interested in Putin particularly around this subject (ph).

BLITZER: The Trump doctrine is emerging right now.

HENDERSON: Yes.

BLITZER: It's developing.

Everybody, stand by.

Coming up, President Obama is spending his last few days working on ways to defend his legacy from being undone once President-elect Trump takes office.

Plus, Democratic senators are planning a showdown of their own. They're targeting at least eight of Donald Trump's cabinet picks in hopes of at least stretching their confirmation votes well into the spring. We have details when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:20:47] BLITZER: President Obama and the first family returned to Washington, D.C., from their Hawaiian vacation just a little while ago. The president plans to use his final 18 days in office defending his policies, like Obamacare. He meets with congressional Democrats on Capitol Hill on Wednesday to talk strategy. He also touted his work on clean energy and legalizing same-sex marriage on his Twitter page over the weekend. But the president-elect, Donald Trump, and congressional Republicans, are openly talking about repealing much of what President Obama signed off on over the past eight years.

Let's bring back our political panels. Zeke Miller is here, Nia-Malika Henderson, David Chalian, and Dana Bash.

Dana, let's talk a little bit about the big legislative showdowns we're about to see unfold. What are the three big ones you anticipate in -- let's say in the first 100 days?

BASH: Well, the first one is something that might sound pretty wonky, but is really, really important to Republicans, and that's regulatory reform. And when I say that I mean the fact that for years and years and years Republicans - eight years really, but more importantly over the past like three or four, Republicans have complained that the regulations that the Obama administration have put in place have - it has been terrible for the business community and sort of hurt the economic process and so forth. So you're going to see Republicans try to push through those reforms.

BLITZER: Remove a lot of the regulations that the president signed by executive order.

BASH: A lot of the regulations - exactly.

BLITZER: Which the new president can unsign by executive order.

BASH: He can do that, but they want to also do it legislatively. And they've actually passed this three times.

BLITZER: If they do it legislatively, it's got to be undone by further legislation, which is much more difficult.

BASH: It does, but the House has passed legislation three or four times. It got stuck in the Senate. But presumably now it will be easier.

The second is infrastructure reform. And I bring that up because that is the one area that Democrats - it's their go to area - an infrastructure package, I should say, where people say, what are you going to do that's bipartisan with President Trump, and they say infrastructure because that's been one of the things that he has talked about, about trying to really fix our roads and bridges and so forth. Of course the big question, and the reason why it's probably going to be a fight is, how is that going to be structured? Is it going to be government money? Is it going to be tax credits? You know, we'll see.

And, of course, the most obvious is Obamacare. We know that the Republicans are going to vote to repeal it. They're going to do it in such a way that it will make it impossible for Republicans to - for Democrats to block it. They're going to delay on the replace. But what happens in between and how Democrats kind of - they can't do anything with the votes, but how they message the problems that they will tell Americans that that will pose for them. That's going to be very interesting.

BLITZER: Chuck Schumer, the new Democratic minority leader in the Senate, he likes the infrastructure idea, but -

BASH: And so does Nancy Pelosi.

BLITZER: But the devil's in the details right now.

BASH: Yes, exactly.

BLITZER: What are the three big showdowns you're seeing?

CHALIAN: Well, I had infrastructure also because it scrambles the politics that we're used to seeing in this town so much. Although I'm a little skeptical, I know the Democrats are very hopeful that they're going to be able to work together. Donald Trump, in his post-election "New York Times" interview, said some surprise in his voice that, wow, I - I've now heard how much of an anathema - I'm putting words in his mouth - to the Republicans this is.

BASH: Yes.

CHALIAN: I didn't realize how opposed Republicans are to infrastructure.

BASH: Exactly.

CHALIAN: So is Donald Trump going to sit down and decide that that's what he wants to go to war on with his own party is an infrastructure bill and to - and to - maybe. Maybe that is a way that he wants to keep that Trump brand separate from being attached to any one party. I know the Democrats are really hopeful about it.

The other thing - you know, the politics of immigration are always fascinating to watch. Obviously it was such a calling card for his entire campaign. I'm looking to see what can get done on immigration. The boundaries of the immigration debate are totally different now than they were when the Senate passed the immigration bill and it got nowhere in the House. Where they start, what they want to work on, how he gets some votes since they don't have 60 votes in the Senate -

BASH: Right.

CHALIAN: So there is going to need to be some finagling there.

And then, of course, Obamacare, which, you know, we're going to start seeing this week when the House starts to lay the ground work - I mean, I think this is - I know this gets wonky, but it -

[13:25:02] HENDERSON (ph): Please, let's go.

CHALIAN: The fact that one of the first pieces that the Republicans have to do to start unwinding this is rid themselves of their own rules about spending -

BASH: Exactly.

CHALIAN: And not increasing spending and having this negative impact on the deficit, they have to immediately twist themselves ideologically into a pretzel a bit in order to accomplish this larger goal, and that is - that's going to be something that is tricky for the Republicans to navigate, even though they have all the power.

BLITZER: Yes.

HENDERSON: Yes.

BLITZER: On the infrastructure, during the campaign, Donald Trump always made a point, look at the roads ---

BASH: Yes.

BLITZER: Look at the bridges. Look at the airports. BASH: Yes.

HENDERSON: Right.

BLITZER: They're like third world. La Guardia, he would always point out -

BASH: Yes.

BLITZER: A disaster. So on that he's got - he's got some - a commitment, I think -

HENDERSON: Yes.

BLITZER: Not only from Republicans, but from a lot of Democrats as well, if they can come up with the money.

What are your three?

HENDERSON: Yes, I mean, my three, trade, child care policy, and immigration reform.

On trade, I think, again, this is one of those issues that scrambles the political deck here in terms of allegiances and orthodoxy. The GOP is for free trade. This is something that obviously Donald Trump did - does not want. He wants higher tariffs he's talked about. He's talking about pulling out of TPP. That is something that will probably happen pretty immediately.

BLITZER: Probably day one.

HENDERSON: Yes, probably day one. And then what happens with NAFTA. There is the option of just pulling out of that three country agreement altogether. It looks more likely that it will be renegotiated. But what does that renegotiation look like? Republicans certainly aren't for the kind of high tariffs that he is looking at, 35 percent or so. But then again, maybe he's going to be able to get people like Bernie Sanders, people like Elizabeth Warren, those folks, Democrats, who have never been a fan of free trade and certainly not a fan of NAFTA either.

On child care, it's going to be interesting to see the emergence of Ivanka Trump as a sort of first lady in the way that Michelle Obama took on school lunches. I think we're going to see Ivanka really make her mark in terms of increasing tax deductions for child care. This is something she's talking to Marcia Blackburn about, of course is congresswoman from Tennessee. And also seeing if she can get maternity leave. Six weeks of maternity leave for new mothers. Again, this is big government. It's costly. But, again, it scrambles the political decks.

On immigration reform, this idea, Donald Trump has talked about deporting two to three million criminal undocumented immigrants. We'll see what happens with that, if he's able to do that. I think he's going to see some tension with local officials in states like New York and states like California. It's going to be a - yes. BLITZER: Yes, you're right on the child care.

HENDERSON: Yes.

BLITZER: Ivanka Trump's big issue. He's going to get a lot of support from Democrats on that issue as well.

HENDERSON: Exactly.

BLITZER: Your three?

ZEKE MILLER, POLITICAL REPORTER, "TIME": You know, infrastructure, Russia policy -

HENDERSON: Yes.

MILLER: And then - I mean it - and basically what we're getting - we're getting - the common thread here in all - on all - and Obamacare. The common thread is sort of where Donald Trump breaks with his own party and where does he sort of try to reach across the aisle. Infrastructure being sort of the Christmas tree dream of both parties where they can sort of attach other things to it and then become some sort of must pass vehicle in the begging of the first - of Donald Trump's first team. We'll see just how willing he is to do that with the - Obamacare, I mean, if it's going to be - whatever the repeal is, it will end up being Trumpcare and Donald Trump is very sensitive to sort of things that are in his - you know, will - it might not have his name there, but that's what we'll all start calling it.

CHALIAN: He'd (ph) likely be able to license his name (INAUDIBLE) -

HENDERSON: Yes.

MILLER: (INAUDIBLE). But, you know, but for him, I mean, that - sort of how he - sort of inserts himself into the process that right now it's very much very - very driven by Speaker Ryan on Capitol Hill. How, in order to make sure that he doesn't end up sort of holding the political bag on that, it will be really interesting. And then also Russia will be sort of just how we'll see Republican senators try to insert that issue into all the other legislative issues coming up.

BLITZER: Dana, what are you hearing about this effort now to at least string out or delay confirmation of at least eight of these nominees that the president-elect is putting forward? They don't have the votes to kill them.

BASH: No.

BLITZER: You need 50, at least 50, because Mike Pence is the vice president -

BASH: Right.

BLITZER: President of the Senate. He could break a tie. They have 52 to 48 Democrats.

BASH: Right.

BLITZER: So what's the point?

BASH: The point is to make a point. The point is to say, and this is what Chuck Schumer, the incoming Democratic leader in the Senate is saying today. You see the eight faces on the screen. That these are eight that they are going to say, no, no, no, Mr. President-elect, we're not just going to put these through the committee hearings and committee votes and Senate floor votes. You know, one, two, three. We need to take our time, and more importantly they're saying, we need information. We need tax returns. We need, you know, some financial disclosures. We need information to go to the Office of Government Ethics, which Democratic sources say that a lot of this has not gone to.

[13:29:48] And it's not just because these are, you know, fresh faces. For example, in the - in the idea of Rex Tillerson, who's a CEO of Exxon. Devos, who, of course, has - is of the Amway fortune.