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Anti-Trump Conservatives Meet In Washington; Trump's Path To Possible GOP Nomination; Will Rubio Endorse In GOP Primary?; Reid Says Republicans Responsible For Trump's Rise; Minnesota Cops Targeted; Inside Rebel-Held Syria. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired March 17, 2016 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[13:00:03] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 p.m. here in Washington, 7:00 p.m. in Aleppo, Syria, 1:30 a.m. Friday in Pyongyang, North Korea. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

We begin this hour with the political drama unfolding in the race for the White House. Can Donald Trump win enough delegates to lock up the Republican presidential nomination or will the Republican so-called establishment find a way to stop him?

On top of that, anti-Trump conservative activists, they've been meeting behind closed doors in Washington today. Among other things, they're discussing whether to launch a third-party campaign against Trump if he does become the Republican nominee.

The race right now is all about delegates. So far, Trump leads with 662. He's ahead of Senator Ted Cruz by more than 250. But Trump will need to win about 57 percent of the remaining delegates to clinch the nomination. Republicans are bracing for the prospect, possibly, of a contested convention if he doesn't get that majority.

Let's take a closer look at how many people, so far, have voted for Donald Trump. With half the states voting in Republican caucuses and primaries so far, here's an unofficial vote total for all the ballots actually cast so far. Look at this. Trump has about 7 1/2 million votes. That's about 37 percent of the vote. Cruz has almost 5 1/2 million votes. Kasich has 2.7 million votes. Trump clearly way ahead.

For the Democrats, look at this, Hillary Clinton has 8.6 million total votes cast, that according to an unofficial vote total. Bernie Sanders has 6.1 million votes cast so far. Those are actual votes cast in Republican and Democratic primaries and caucuses so far this year in this cycle.

Let's take a closer look at the presidential race. Joining us, our CNN Chief Political Analyst Gloria Borger. She's joining us from New York. Here in Washington with me, our Senior Political Reporter Nia- Malika Henderson and our CNN Political Director David Chalian.

So, let's start with the votes, Gloria. Trump clearly has way more, 2 million more, votes than Cruz. But what are you hearing about this possibility that anti-Trump establishment elements, as they're called, are gathering today here in Washington to discuss some other option other than Trump?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, Wolf, these are anti-Trump conservative elements of the party. My source took great pains to distinguish himself from the anti-Trump establishment wing of the party, because both the establishment and conservatives, this conservative group, really want to challenge Trump at the convention.

I was told that there was, quote, "absolute consensus," Wolf, on trying to stop Trump from getting to that magic number of 1,237 and that there remains optimism, as this source put it, that that was possible.

So, how do you do this? One of the ways, and one of the things they are sort of tossing around is this option of a third party to combat Trump. There's division within this group, Wolf, about whether you could actually form a third party. The more likely thing is to use existing third parties like, say, the libertarian party to get ballot access.

They believe now that if Trump were to become the nominee, that the Republican Party would cease to be a party that traditional conservatives could be a part of. And they're very serious about this.

And as I said, Wolf, so now you've got the establishment, on the one hand, trying to figure out a way to challenge Trump, and you've got what might source calls the Reagan revolutionaries, on the other side, trying to figure out a way to challenge Trump also.

BLITZER: And, David Chalian, that could be a powerful coalition if you put the anti-Trump forces together. But the argument would be, would that not guarantee a Hillary Clinton win, that she would be elected to divide the Republicans like that. With a third party, that guarantees a Hillary Clinton win.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: I have not heard anyone make the case yet for how a third party, if you take a swath of conservatives and move them to a third party, or if Donald Trump himself goes to a third party, how that doesn't guarantee Hillary Clinton the White House. Nobody -- I have not heard anyone make that case that it could do that yet. So, I think that that is a tricky proposition.

Gloria, you wanted to get in?

BORGER: Well, I don't think there's -- you know, no one would doubt that it might elect Hillary Clinton. I think these are people who believe that there is no room for them in a Republican Party anymore that would nominate Donald Trump. I mean, these are -- you know, these are realists here. They get it. I think what they're staging is a walkout, basically.

BLITZER: Yes, and maybe a walkout. And I want to -- we get -- we just got an updated -- Nia, updated number of delegates. We've just updated the delegate count right now.

[13:05:02] This is the latest estimate that we have, 678 delegates committed to Trump, 418 for Cruz, 145 for Kasich. The magic number, 1,237, that's what you need in order to be the Republican nominee on the first ballot.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: That's right and folks want to stay in, people like Kasich, people like Ted Cruz, to, essentially, deny him that total of 1,237. He has said he feels like maybe he can get that.

And this idea of a contested convention, if they try to wrestle this nomination away from Donald Trump, then they're left with, how do they explain that to the millions and millions of voters who went to the polls who got off work early and cast their ballot for Donald Trump, in these many, many states?

So it's a problem. It feels like Republicans don't have any good options, at this point. If it's Donald Trump, that is a risky proposition to have him at the head of the Republican Party. And then, all of these other options almost equally as bad.

CHALIAN: Wolf, I want you to note, in those new delegate totals you just gave, what happened there. Donald Trump increased his margin over Ted Cruz. We had him at about a 254 delegate lead. You now have him at a 260 delegate lead. So, he has padded his lead there.

And, you know, I talked to a Cruz source the other day, the day of the contest on Tuesday, who was advising me to sort of look at 250 as a key number. And if his delegate lead was pushing closer towards 300, that was going to make Trump so formidable. And if they could keep him closer to a 250 delegate lead, they felt they could still rob him of 1,237 at the end of the day. Two sixty is starting to move in that direction.

BLITZER: But, Gloria, what do these conservative faith leaders who are opposed to Trump and Republican establishment leaders who are opposed to Trump say to the actual numbers? Forget about the delegates for a minute. The actual who have voted in caucuses and primaries so far, as we noted, Trump has more than 7.5 million people who --

BORGER: Right.

BLITZER: -- have voted for him. Cruz has 5.4. More than 2 million people have voted for Trump over Cruz. There, you see the numbers right there, Kasich 2.7 million. What do you say to those millions of Trump supporters out there?

BORGER: Look, they understand. These numbers are pretty hard to argue with, Wolf. And that's why I think these folks are feeling alienated from their own party. The establishment has been really slow off the mark here so have these conservatives, whom I thought actually might decide to rally around Ted Cruz. That doesn't seem to be the case, at least with this group, that was meeting this morning. I think the entire party has kind of -- was caught unaware. They had no idea what was occurring within their own base of the party. And now, they're in an -- kind of an untenable position because it looks like Trump is going to get the nomination. And they look, you know, very late in this game. And they look like they're trying to do anything to stop him where he remains very public -- you know, very popular within their own party.

I think for these conservatives that met today, the signal that I was getting was, look, we may not have a home in this party any more if it's led by Donald Trump. And we may need to just form something else and go elsewhere.

BLITZER: All right, guys, stand by. We more to assess. There's other information coming in as well. Marco Rubio, he has one more big decision to make, who will he endorse, if anyone? Where will he go? Where will his followers go? What about all the money that his campaign had, where is that heading?

Plus, hospitals coming under fire in war-torn Syria. Our new and unflinching look at the air strikes and what they mean for the wounded and the doctors trying to take care of all those people. Clarissa Ward brings us this must-watch CNN exclusive. That's coming up this hour as well.

[13:09:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Twelve hundred thirty-seven, that's the magic number Donald Trump is trying to hit in order to clinch the Republican presidential nomination and avoid a contested convention. But can he do it? Let's bring back our CNN political panel. Nia, let's talk about Marco Rubio for a second. He dropped out the other night. He's got some supporters out there. He's still got some campaign money. Where is that heading?

HENDERSON: That's right. And he's got delegates, right? And if this becomes a nasty fight between delegates and where do those delegates go, well, he can certainly a signal one way or the other. It looks like he has told folks in Minnesota, one of the three states he won, that the only conservative in this race is Cruz. So, that might be an early signal of where his support might go.

Whether or not a Rubio endorsement, at this point, really matters, when all of the establishment endorsements from governors haven't really mattered in these contests, it's hard to say. But in terms of sort of releasing of delegates, that could matter down the line.

BLITZER: Gloria, the Senate minority leader, the Democratic leader, Harry Reid, said today that Republicans leaders themselves are responsible for the rise of Donald Trump. He said they created what he called drought conditions and Trump simply struck the match. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV), MINORITY LEADER: The sort of punch first, ask questions later leadership is exactly what we've come to expect from Donald Trump. We know where he learned it. If Senator McConnell wonders from where Donald Trump came, he should take a look in the mirror. No one is working harder to support Trump than Mitch McConnell.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right. What is Reid trying to do, by blaming the Republican leadership, Mitch McConnell, among others, for Trump's rise?

BORGER: This is a man who's trying to win back control of the Senate. And you can -- you can hear what he's -- what he's doing. It's pretty obvious, right, Wolf? I mean, Mitch McConnell is the leader of Republicans. There are a lot of Republicans up for re-election in blue states. The control of the Senate is very much at stake.

And if Donald Trump is going to become the nominee, Harry Reid wants to tie every single Republican in the Senate to Donald Trump. And he's already started doing it. Before the Republican convention, I guarantee you he's going to it continue it, one way or another, until the election.

[13:15:00] BLITZER: Very quickly, David, the former House speaker, John Boehner, he says if no one gets enough votes, he would support Paul Ryan emerging from the convention as the Republican presidential nominee, to which Ryan responded. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. PAUL RYAN (R-WI), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: I saw Boehner last night and I told him to knock it off. You know, I used slightly different words. Nothing's changed other than the perception that this is more likely to become an open convention than we thought before.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Yes. I guess he's pretty blunt about that.

CHALIAN: He is pretty blunt. Although I -- we should remind ourselves, he also said he would never consider the speakership.

BORGER: That's right.

CHALIAN: And guess what podium he's using there to have this press conference today. So stranger things have happened than if an entire party came to him and said, we need you now. And if this happened on the floor of the convention in Cleveland, I imagine Paul Ryan's answer might be a little different.

BLITZER: And he was the vice presidential nominee four years ago.

CHALIAN: He was.

BLITZER: Let's not forget about that.

All right, guys, thanks very much.

Coming up, a chilling kill list now linked to ISIS. The names of dozens of officers published online, along with where they live. We're going to get the latest on the investigation. A live report coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:20:39] BLITZER: The FBI has now joined the investigation into an ISIS -- it's described as a kill list, naming at least 32 Minnesota police officers, listing details such as their home addresses, their personal phone numbers.

CNN's Ryan Young is joining us now live from Chicago with details.

Ryan, so how is ISIS connected? How did they get this information? This so-called kill list is obviously very disturbing.

RYAN YOUNG, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Very disturbing, Wolf. And when people look into this, I've talked to several police officers, they're very upset about the idea that this information's out there. This kill list was apparently pulled from a website where you can see ISIS supporters have put up the names of these officers out there. Now what I've been told from several officers, they're upset because obviously this puts their families in danger.

Now one of our affiliates tells us they believe that a website was hacked that police officers are looking for auto insurance, and that's how these names were pulled. And in that Minnesota area, we do know that there -- the FBI is looking into this. And the fact that several groups have infiltrated the Minnesota area and have been recruiting people. So we've talked to the FBI just about this investigation and how they're going to move forward.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KYLE LOVEN, FBI SPOKESMAN: We know we have a unique situation where we've had several young people who have left the state in order to join terrorist organizations. It's something that factors into our calculous as we go about our business.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

YOUNG: So, Wolf, obviously you can see there's been a lot of interest in that area, the Minnesota area. But these are affecting officers across the state. It's a conversation that a lot of people are having, especially in the law enforcement communities, because if you put their families in danger, this is a conversation they want to have. Of course, they're making sure that people understand the danger they're in.

BLITZER: It's a very serious situation. And, unfortunately, it's not the first time this so-called kill list has emerged. A kill list of this nature apparently linked to ISIS. All right, Ryan, thank you very much. Coming up, hospitals caught in the line of fire in Syria with bombs

falling from the sky. What's motivating doctors to stay on the ground and help people? CNN's Clarissa Ward takes us to the front lines. This is a can't miss exclusive report. Stick around for that.

Plus, the announcement today from the secretary of state, John Kerry, declaring a genocide is being cared out by ISIS. What could that mean for the fight against the terrorists going forward?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:27:20] BLITZER: For the first time in a dozen years, the United States now has officially declared that a genocide has taken place. Back in 2004, it was in Darfur. Today it's in Syria and Iraq at the hands of ISIS. The secretary of state, John Kerry, made the announcement earlier this morning. Rebels in Syria have been battered by ISIS, by Syrian government forces, and by Russian war planes.

CNN's senior international correspondent, Clarissa Ward, went undercover into rebel-held Syria where virtually no western journalists have gone for more than a year, to show us what it's like to live in place that are not seen as cities with hospitals and courthouses, but instead they're seen as just a grouping of potential targets. I want to warn our viewers, here in the United States and around the world, the report you're about to see includes graphic images that some viewers may find disturbing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CLARISSA WARD, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It is an all too common sight in rebel-held parts of Syria, the moments after an air strike. Dazed survivors stagger from the rubble. Those still trapped call out for help.

The target this time, the courthouse in Idlib City. Activists say the bombs were Russian.

WARD (on camera): When rebels took the provincial capital of Idlib, they saw it as a crucial opportunity to demonstrate that they could build their own state. And they believe that's exactly why the Russians bombed this courthouse, to undermine that effort.

WARD (voice-over): Any civilian in the structure is a potential target, including hospitals. Last month, four were hit in a single day. One, in the city of Marik Noman (ph) was supported by Doctors Without Borders. This is what remains of it now. At least 25 people were killed.

Dr. Maz al-Souad was the general manager. He told us that Russian and regime forces target hospitals cynically and deliberately.

DR. MAZ AL-SOUAD, GENERAL MANAGER OF HOSPITAL (through translator): They want to kill the maximum number of people. Also, they want to forbid the area from having medical service. If there's no doctor, no nurse, no hospital, then there is no health care for the people, and people will flee. WARD (on camera): Is it possible that they did not know that this was

a hospital?

AL-SOUAD: Everyone knows this is a hospital. There was even a sign that said this is a hospital. But if they didn't know, this is an even bigger disaster, because if you were bombing a building like this without knowing it's a hospital, it means you are hitting totally indiscriminately.

[13:30:06] WARD (voice-over): Against the backdrop of this vicious war, Islamist factions have gained the upper hand here. Among them, al Qaeda affiliate Jabhat al-Nusra.