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Inside the Middle East
February 13, 2011
Posted: 837 GMT

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Filed under: Egypt •Protests •Video


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Hope   February 14th, 2011 5:05 am ET

CNN..Our thanks to ALL of your wonderful journalists-reporters-camera people who had kept us up-to-date informed and glued to our TV's (tweets and monitors!) for the last two weeks documenting the events in Tahrir Square. My hat off to all of them for doing an incredible job...My only question is...WHEN ON EARTH DID THEY SLEEP! Heroes at best..Thank You!!

Ariely   February 14th, 2011 5:35 am ET

Egypt and Turkey.

Egypt people's future desire will be unveiled only following the elections.

Do the Tahrir revolutionaries represent the majority of Egypt people?
Are the revolutionaries connected to one vision of Egypt future?
Certainly not.

The majority of Egyptian rural population was not part of the revolution.
They are traditionally Muslim religious people.
On elections day, most likely they will vote for the Muslim Brotherhood.
Muslim brotherhood will shape Egypt future.

Good example is Turkey. Despite 80 years of Kamalizm, directing Turkey toward the west, Erdugan Islamic party (close to Muslim Brotherhood) is changing Turkey path toward Islamist Iran.
This change has been made by democratic elections.

Reason: The Turkish majority people are from rural communities.
Unlike the people in the major cities they have not exposed to Kamalist teaching.
They remain traditional Muslims
.
The west conception that Turkey has been stabilized as society embracing western values was wrong.

John A   February 14th, 2011 5:50 pm ET

Ariely,
Let the Egyptian people speak for themselves and if they achieve a free and fair election, you should respect their choice. Thats if you respect democracy.

Islam is a religion. You are a Zionist Jew. You call Israel "the Jewish State" but you don't want Islam to have an Islamist state. Being Jewish doesn't automatically make a person an illegal settler or non stop war monger, even though Israel has a reputation for both.
Being Islamist doesn't automatically make a person anything in particular either.

But if you are so concerned why don't you set an example. Denounce Israels desire to be a "Jewish state" and then you can explain to people how dangerous it is to mix politics and religion. But until you can do this, perhaps you should be more discrete with your hypocrisy?

Ariely   February 15th, 2011 5:53 pm ET

What for Muslims brotherhood stands for ahead the election?
Yes – there are for democracy- however their agenda is:
(From a 14 Feb seminar)

*Egypt will be governed by Muslim lows and traditions.

*A non elected Islam prominent religious leaders will monitor that the elected government will follow their guidelines.

*Woman will be educated to perform their Islamic traditional homed duties.

*Christians will not be permitted to be manager on top of Muslims people.

*They are not referencing to the one of Muslim brotherhood fundamental points in their doctrine- and are not declaring that it is not in their doctrine anymore:
"A Muslim can come closer to Allah by waging jihad against all non-Muslims, Christians, Jews, atheists, or polytheists in every possible manner
Dr. Ahmad 'Abd about Al-Walaa Wa'l-Bara article in the "Muslim brotherhood"

Democracy without limitation is used by anti democratic to take over and latter to masquerade it.

Parties promoting anti human rights, hate, aggression against other cultures, impose their ideology by force, banning democracy –should be outlawed from taking part in the democratic system.
In Egypt- the Muslim Brotherhood.
Remember: The Nazi took control of Germany by free elections.

John A   February 16th, 2011 2:34 pm ET

Ariely,
Let the Egyptian people speak for themselves and if they achieve a free and fair election, you should respect their choice. Thats if you respect democracy.

Islam is a religion. You are a Zionist Jew. You call Israel "the Jewish State" but you don't want Islam to have an Islamist state. Being Jewish doesn't automatically make a person an illegal settler or non stop war monger, even though Israel has a reputation for both.
Being Islamist doesn't automatically make a person anything in particular either.

But if you are so concerned why don't you set an example. Denounce Israels desire to be a "Jewish state" and then you can explain to people how dangerous it is to mix politics and religion. But until you can do this, perhaps you should be more discrete with your hypocrisy?....................

Salman Ahmad   February 16th, 2011 9:24 pm ET

I am an employee of Mediterranean Textile Company Saifgroup. This is a textile spinning factory owned by one of the leading industrialists from Pakistan with an investment about 80 Million Dollars in the port city of Alexandria Egypt.
We are 55 Pakistan Nationals trapped in Alexandria Egypt amid angry labor protests for increase in wages and benefits. All of us were legally admitted to Egypt by the previous Egyptian Government.
We have a very good relationship with our 600 Egyptian co-workers and as per our previous routine the management announced a salary increment with effect from January 2011.
On 14th Feb 2011 some of our labor (About 200) misguided by outside forces protested for their rights in front of the factory. They detained us inside the factory and held us hostage for about 24 hours without food and water. The mob was violent and injured one of our Pakistani employees by throwing rocks. They used provocative language and also tried to sabotage the factory and vehicles.
Law and order situation in Egypt is still volatile and with no police force on the streets and army entangled in too many places it's not a safe place for foreigners any more. During these events we and our Pakistani Embassy called the army many times but no response came from their side. One of their army officers clearly told us that army cannot protect you in this situation because protests are going on all over Egypt and industry has come to a complete halt.
It seems that Eyptian protestors came to protest for a cause and after that cause eliminated they just want to continue the protest. One of the slogans these days for the protestors is "Egypt for Egyptians". Yesterday I saw 15 foreign workers from Bangladesh badly beaten by an angry mob shouting this slogan. I can imagine about their condition considering all the doctors and medical staff on strike.
I managed to escape from Alexandria and currently living with my fried in Cairo. Our management agreed to all the demands of protestors only to resolve the hostage situation but when protestors will come to know about this the reaction will follow. About 50 Pakistanis and one family are still trapped in their houses with nowhere to escape and no money in their pockets as banks are completely closed since 28th of January.

miriam   February 17th, 2011 5:06 pm ET

John A,

You fail once again to grasp the fact that the Jews are not only a religion but also a people.

The Jewish state is the state for the Jewish people.

The Jewish state is based on Jewish secular and democratic values, the same basic values that most western countries, you know, the ones you disapprove of but most of the world respect, are also based on.

John A   February 20th, 2011 10:09 am ET

Miriam,

Take your claim up with Charles Darwin if you wish. You'll find the process of evolution can be explained through science. Science does not divide the origin of species into religious groups. Scientifically speaking your claim that Jews are a separate race is utter nonsense. But your claim is very similar to Hitlers claim that the Germans are a distinct race and elevated beyond other men.

Judaism is only a religion. Any male who is prepared mutilate his foreskin and read the Torah can claim to be Jewish. Even a space alien can claim to be Jewish.

Miriam your statement is one of the most retarded to date. But as you always let political and religious prejudice interfere with rational thought, you can only make claims which are intellectually bankrupt.

Sherief   February 20th, 2011 11:36 am ET

Dear Miriam,

So what you are saying is that Israel is not a religious state, but a racist state, who bluntly state the acceptable race of the country??

Not sure which is worse

N.Badawi   February 20th, 2011 1:21 pm ET

This revolution has nothing to do with Religion....We should all stop spreading the Islaophobia taboo....This revolution represented each and every Egyptian citizen.....It was started by Youth,asking for freedom of expression and democracy... yet it gained support from all age brackets, all classes(middle,poor and Filthy Rich!)all relegions......an amazing spirit was every where in the streets (NOT ONLY in Tahrir sq) including all governerates.....Muslims and Copts(Egyptian Christians) worked hand in hand to protect their homes...protect each other during prayers....protect the Egyptian Museum......Muslim brotherhood represent no danger to this country.....we should listen to them....as opposed to Mubarak's strategy of arresting them....They have greal ideas...yet NO one wants to mix politics with religion.......their group, at most represents 15% of society.....

miriam   February 21st, 2011 2:45 pm ET

John A and Sherief,

Fortunately, Judaism as a religion and Jews as a people do not buy into the social Darwinist climb towards human perfection as expressed in eugenics. As a people who suffered from Nazism's practice of the facism that was born out of such beliefs, most are aware of the denigration of reason popular in today's obsessions.

Multiculturalism and transnationalism have attempted to destroy any concept of nationalism at the same time attacking democracy and the ability of any country to govern itself according to the wishes of its own population.

Hence the idea of a nation with an intrinsic identity is deemed to be racist and what better nation to blame as racist than the only one that identifies as Jewish, despite the fact that people of all religions are free to practise their faiths there and Jews living there are of mixed ethnicity thanks to years of exile, persecution and inter-marriage.

Strangely, that notion of racism is rarely applied to other nations who prohibit or make difficult the practice of any religion other than the official state one or who aspire to racial homogeneity.

It should be obvious that Jews are not just a religious group but also a people although not necessarily a race. Just because there may not be another group of people who can be defined in such a way is no reason to deny the fact that Jews are both.

John A   February 22nd, 2011 9:37 am ET

Miriam your bloated opinions are not based on any facts.

Place an Ethiopian Jew next to a Polish Jew and tell me how much they have in common as a race of people. If they don't belong to the same race, then they have merely adopted the same religion. As we don't live in the middle ages, you cant create boarders and divide people purely on a religious basis. Oh wait a minute, you can and you have in apartheid Israel the "Jewish state".

Future generations will look back on this time and place the concept of Israel in feudal, medieval dust bin. Along with other nations of course, you Israelis are not alone in your primitive beliefs.

miriam   February 23rd, 2011 2:26 pm ET

John A,

Both these Jews would belong to the human race and share a distinct culture, all be it with some variations resulting from thousands of years of exile.

Only you seem to obsessed with race. Jews are not.

Jews are a people, with the right to self-determination as are other peoples, whether they share religion, culture or ethnicity.

The Jewish state includes non-Jewish citizens as well as atheist Jews who are at the same time strongly nationalist and bears no resemblance with apartheid SA, a claim only made by disinformed anti-Zionists.

Future generations will look back at your type of opinion and lump it together with all the other anti-Jewish bigoted ideas that have popped-up now and again throughout history and have been preserved as examples of baseless hatred.

John A   February 24th, 2011 10:34 am ET

Miriam refers to Polish and Ethiopian Jews, "Both these Jews would belong to the human race and share a distinct culture, all be it with some variations resulting from thousands of years of exile".

----------------
Miriam, Let me stop you there . The evolution needed for mans origins in Africa to change into a European Polish type of man has taken millions of years. Your laughable claim that this evolutionary difference have occurred since the supposed exile of the Jews under Roman rule in 70 AD is laughable to the point tears are coming out of my eyes.

Your claim is actually based on Israeli beliefs and these same beliefs are scientifically proven to be fraudulent lies.

miriam   February 24th, 2011 6:56 pm ET

John A,

Who said that Ethiopian Jews were exiled in 70AD?

You shouldn't start a debate about a topic you are so obviously ignorant about.

Your comment reinforces my argument about Jews and peoplehood rather than race.

Go ahead and cry. You've got it all wrong once again.

m.y.   February 25th, 2011 2:30 am ET

John A.,
You keep saying "let the Egyptian people speak for themselves".
Well as an Egyptian Christian ( Coptic), I can tell you that I share the same concerns Ariely has. As a minority, Coptic Egyptians have always been living in fear in their own country. It's because of the decades of persecution that they faced and continue to face, that many of them felt that the fall of the regiem in Egypt is bitter sweet. If things were tough in the past for Coptic Egyptians, they can only get worse if Egypt becomes an Islamic State. That is not to say that there aren't many secular muslims in Egypt.. Here's the problem though, the mulim brotherhood has financial resources that could, lets say, persuade financially struggeling citizens. to vote for them.

John A   February 27th, 2011 7:21 pm ET

m.y.

Lets give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are not Ariely writing under a new name. He also uses the name proud Zionist because he is desperate to give the impression others agree with his silly talk.

But to answer your point:

1) the Egyptian protest showed unity and no division between Muslim and Christians

2) Many journalists now ask the question, "where have the Islamist gone"? because all the revolts are supposed to be based on democracy and higher living standards. Non of the revolts anywhere in the middle east have been based on religion.

3) Even if you are honestly Egyptian (which doesn't look likely, considering you repeat Ariely words and speak in the opposite way to all other Egyptians who protested in the square) it remains an Egyptian problem.

Why are you obviously not who you say you are. Because Egypt's problem is theirs to resolve and not for the UN, America or anyone else. All Egyptians know this... except you.

Your fear mongering Zionist disguise is an old story, you need to do better hahahahaha

Poor old Zionist Airely, how hard he tries. But to agree with yourself using your newly invented handle is really pathetic hahahahah

John A   February 27th, 2011 7:31 pm ET

Miriam,

You have been caught lying again, as on every other blog you write.

We were discussing Polish and Ethiopian Jews and you said," Both these Jews would belong to the human race and share a distinct culture, all be it with some variations resulting from thousands of years of exile".

When you say their variation result from exile, you claim they were one people exiled from Israel. The mythical exile in Jewish religious books was supposed to take place in 70 AD. This means you claim the difference in appearance between a Polish Jew and an Ethiopian Jew evolved since 70 AD. But anyone with half a brain knows the evolutionary differences between African man and European man has taken hundreds of thousands of years.

Unfortunately Miriam you are so dumb that you cant see how dumb you are. But no doubt you will reply with more nonsense as your remedial mind thinks the last word wins. Miriam, you can have the last word because I don't have the therapeutic skills needed to help stimulate you into a proper conversation.

miriam   February 28th, 2011 6:40 pm ET

John A,

There was no exile in 70 AD. That was the year the Jewish Temple was destroyed in Jerusalem. It was the year 135AD when the Jews were banished from Jerusalem and consequently forced to settle in communities elsewhere in the Holy Land and beyond.

The Ethiopian Jews left years before, many with the Queen of Sheba during Solomon's rule and others later in history.

Every group of Jews who have found themselves living in communities around the world has inter-married accounting for racial differences but not removing their affiliation to the Jewish people nor, in a large number, loss of religious practice.

Each group has also had to tolerate further expulsions and forced migration, during which the consistent wish to return to Zion was prevented either by travel restrictions, refused admission or impossible journeys, prolonging their exile.

It is your shallow knowledge of Jewish history, aided by your preference for denial of Judaism altogether, that forces you to promote the rediculous and disclaim the truth.

John A   March 1st, 2011 10:57 am ET

Miriam, your laughable theories continue. Whatever date you place on the mythical Jewish expulsion (which has never been proven to be more than a myth) it makes no difference. For the Israeli Jews to have changed so much in appearance, it would take 100,000s of years.

To cover your obvious lies, you then explain the difference on inter married relations. Nice theory, but it also means that the decedents of the supposed exiled tribes of Israel have no more right to live in Israel than they do to live in Africa. With your new theory, anyone could claim to be Jewish and all peoples are interconnected somewhere down the line.

If I were you Miriam, I would stop your silly talk before you demonstrate precisely why the Israeli state is built on a well known lie. The creation of Israel is the most fraudulent event in history. But keep talking Miriam, you prove the Israeli scam better than anyone.

miriam   March 3rd, 2011 4:16 pm ET

John A,

You just don't get it.

In fact, all you do get is how to deny a people its history, its culture and its rights.

Rather than recognize the fact that people have converted to Judaism and have bred into the nation, you use racism and discrimination to exclude them, ignoring the equivalent processes common in nearly every other religion and ethnic group.

And yes, there are millions of people who could trace their Jewish roots, however either they or their ancestors have chosen to abandon them and consequently their belonging to the Jewish people/religion.

John A   March 6th, 2011 3:09 pm ET

I get it Miriam. You have stated it very clearly.

Almost anyone could claim to have Jewish ancestry. Anyone can convert to Judaism.

And if anyone claims to be Jewish, they can also claim the property of a Palestinian whose family have occupied a house for hundreds of years.

I know many Israelis actually come from Argentina. When Argentina was economically strong in the 60s, they were proud to be Argentinean.

When Argentina's economy went down the toilet, Israel offered Argentinean Jews free flights and accommodation to Israel. They offered start up funds etc.. (All paid from American tax). The then destitute Jewish Argentineans found great economic reasons to turn their backs on Argentina, claim Israeli nationality and rob Palestinian homes and farms with the support of Israels politicians. The idea was to boost Jewish numbers to grab more land from Arabs.

I really do get it Miriam. Its clear and obvious. Thank you.

miriam   March 8th, 2011 12:05 pm ET

John A, the clueless,

The fact that the re-establishment of the Jewish state would enable it to be the refuge that Jews around the world had not had for nearly 2000 years is not something that someone who denies the Jews a right to their religious, historical and cultural homeland and who propagates anti-Zionist myths is going to have the ability to understand.

Not going into the historical details as to why there are thousands of Jews living in South America and the fact that emigration from there to Israel is not a recent phenomenon, Jews were not the only ones leaving Argentina in the last decade to move to their homelands.

History (not your strong point), has also taught the Jews that they will be blamed whenever the going gets tough which has resulted in the loss of
millions of Jewish lives precisely because they were denied their homeland which was simultaneously being populated with migrants accompanying the various conquerors who would then claim to be the indigenous landowners.

John A   March 10th, 2011 8:31 am ET

Miriam,

More meaningless bla bla bla. How do you manage it?

Perhaps you have forgotten in history how many different groups have been persecuted?

Red Indians, Roma Gypsies, Jews, Christians etc...

No other group uses its historical persecution to remove others from their homes, remove them from their land, occupy and humiliate those who have never historically persecuted them. Only the Jews manage this diabolical achievement.

ps do you think everyone who reads this blog will see you calling me clueless and think oh! John A must be clueless Miriam said so.

Actually, if those who read this blog have integrity, they will note that you are rude and your ignorance prevents you from making a debate based in facts.

miriam   March 17th, 2011 2:55 pm ET

John A,

You must be dreaming if you don't believe that there haven't been groups who have forced others from their homes, occupied land and humiliated residents for any number of reasons, be they historical persecution, colonialism or religious expansionism.

However, it is false to claim that the Jews are guilty of what you claim.
Denying Jewish connection to Israel is in itself a form of persecution and a dishonest starting point.

The settlement on the remains of Jewish communities by migrating tribes over centuries does not cover-up history even if it hides the truth on the surface.

The return of Jews to their homeland, to join those who managed to survive all attempts at exile and destruction, was a result of persecution but not an invasion of some random land. in addition, land was legally purchased and every effort was made to co-exist with the local population, many of whom had no ties to the land other than being migrant hired laborers, although certainly many did have deeper roots and legal status.

During war, people on all sides of a conflict leave homes for a variety of
reasons and while Arabs were leaving their homes, Jews were also leaving theirs, never to return.

The status of the disputed territories, mistakenly referred to as "occupied", Is to be settled by negotiation and not by Palestinian pre-determined false presumptions supported by cynical rhetoric nor terrorist actions requiring necessary Israeli security intervention.


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