The same Israeli soldiers have confiscated all the survivors cameras and mobile phones. What are they hiding??
The Israelis have not been able to produce a single knife or axe which they claim they were attacked with.
Israel murdered at least 10 people (But we still don't know who, because the truth has been blacked out by Israel)
Israel provides a heavily edited film, which shows a tiny portion of the event. However, eyewitnesses who have returned state the Israeli helicopters were firing from the air before their soldiers even landed on the boat. IT IS VERY OBVIOUS THAT THE AID WORKERS PICKED UP CHAIRS AND STICKS TO FIGHT FOR THEIR LIVES AGAINST A RUTHLESS COWARDLY ATTACK BY ISRAEL. Why did Israel make a middle of the night commando raid, if their idea was minimum force. Minimum risk of death occurs in daylight.
More ships are on their way and they have many good Irish aid workers onboard. If Israels army fires on unarmed Irish aid workers, then Israel and its corrupt mates in America will learn for the first time the true meaning of terror. Be sure, the Irish people will not watch their children be murdered by Israeli cowards.
June 2nd, 2010 1:22 pm ET
!!!!! Breaking news – facts and standards
Happening now--Examples of the hypocrite triple standard
One standard used by the defending democracies and Russia – act wherever it's possible against Jihad by all means
Second standard for the Islamist— every possible crime permitted
Third standard for the defending tiny Israel- don’t defend yourself against the terminators
• Standard one !!! A significant victory against Islamism!!!
Killing a terrorist hiding among civilians together with 6 members of his family with a long range missile is a victory.
The action was done 10000 miles away from the shores of countries treated by the Islamist terror group.
The terror group agenda is only to impose Islamism worldwide
A top terror activist was killed along with his wife, three daughters, a grandchild and other men, women and children.
Standard two : A silent world including UN watching Arab Terrorists killing Israelis and using double language lying propaganda. An Islamic Regime in Iran threatening to destroy Israel and supporting terror networks –
• Standard three !! Israel is blamed for defending itself!!
!! Activists of the same Islamist network are heroes!!
The action was done 100 miles nearby Israel
Defending civilians from a terror group with the agenda of imposing Islamism worldwide and KILL all the Jews is a forbidden
The flotillas organizers declared on departure that according to the group’s own mission statement, “We agree to adhere to the principles of nonviolence and nonviolent resistance in word and deed at all times"
As a result of their statement Israel organized a non violent action by unarmed force
However, activists of the IHH an ,Islamist group connected to global jihadi networks armed with knives, clubs, firing life fire attempting to lynch solders armed with game pink guns and self defense pistols are called " Freedom activists"
June 2nd, 2010 1:52 pm ET
The usual, international custom is to confiscate belongings on arrest or detention after commiting a breach of law. This has nothing to do with hiding anything.
If you bothered to listen to or believe the Israeli version of events, there is plenty of footage of weapons being used and after use by the "activists" on board.
The "eye-witnesses" do not know the difference between live ammunition, flares or the stun grenades fired by those on board before any commando landed on the ship.
The raid was conducted at night in order to reduce potential violence, since innocent people are more likely to be sleeping and darkness makes resistance and injury harder, reducing risk.
Israel has a right and a duty to protect her citizens from the continuous firing of rockets and attempts at terrorist infiltration from Gaza.
Anyone supporting the government of Gaza is a supporter of terrorism, and these Irish aid workers are either naive or deliberately provoking Israel rather than caring about the Gazan people. Geuine aid workers work through legal channels, but their efforts are being hijacked by a group of political activists.
The Irish should be more sensitive than most to the use of terrorism to achieve political objectives.
Count yourselves lucky that the Ulster Unionists never resorted to firing thousands of rockets into Ireland, blowing themselves up in your pubs, cafes and buses or calling for your destruction.
June 2nd, 2010 1:58 pm ET
While the world supposedly mourns the deaths of 9 "innocent aid workers" Turkish media reports that their families are rejoicing in their achievement of a life-long ambition, to die as shaheeds while attacking the occupiers of "Palestine".
June 2nd, 2010 5:22 pm ET
My poor Captain R...What did you expect? A soft mattress to catch your fall...A welcoming assortment of Middle Eastern breakfast-delicatessen for your pre-dawn attack on a civilian boat!
Smith in Oregon
June 2nd, 2010 5:24 pm ET
I am very concerned that Israel has blurred the lines between cooperative nations such as NATO member Turkey and those they perceive as enemy's that wish them ill.
If Israel attacks Turkish warships escorting future Gaza Food and Medical Supply flotillas that will certainly fracture NATO as that would directly violate the NATO treaty and likely result in the closure of Turkey's airspace for America and Israeli US Military aircraft and likely result in the closure of Turkey's territory for the US Military transports.
Netanyahu is trying to spin hospital beds, wheel chairs and ten thousand tons of FOOD as weapons from Hamas to Gaza terrorists. That simply is not going to fly in the world whatsoever. The number of peace protesters wounded has been estimated as high as 50, such likely won't be accurately known by independent sources for some time as a number of the passengers on the Turkish cargo flag ship are isolated in Israeli prisons.
June 2nd, 2010 5:24 pm ET
The whole idea of Flotilla and other Free Gaza movements is to raise awareness of the inhuman imprisonment of 1.5M human-beings in Gaza, inflicted by Israel.
Israel, treats the Palestinians as a "Thing" vs. "People"...You want us to feel sorry for this guys falling off the deck!!!
IS THIS A JOKE?
June 2nd, 2010 5:25 pm ET
CNN–where is your interviews with the Activists? That is what the World needs to hear. The victims here are the Activists and the People of Gaza. Yet, here you are spinning up empathy for the Israeli attackers.
June 2nd, 2010 7:25 pm ET
as usual you do not let anybody confuse you with facts
you were always and will always stay:
H O P E L E S S
June 2nd, 2010 7:26 pm ET
:"The Israelis have not been able to produce a single knife or axe which they claim they were attacked with"
liar, and prove me wrong, jewbasher
June 2nd, 2010 7:57 pm ET
Really was unfair agains’t an army of automatic weapons. The poor soldiers were tossed around with sling shots and plates.
And who boarded the ship illigally in the first place? like pirates or CIA type operatives????on a very big mission. These people are lunatics but dangerous lunatics.
They are exposing themselves an showing the world they are dangerous idiots.
June 2nd, 2010 8:06 pm ET
The spin on this is jaw dropping.
I’m close to speechlessness.
America is flaccid and unpopular enough, but if anything goes
down with Turkey, and we do not respond in accordance with NATO, it
might be the final nail in the coffin of Pax Americana.
June 2nd, 2010 8:07 pm ET
Typical zionist view of the world.
And the zionist controlled american media is dosing it out by the ton.
This cowardly soldier is probably so screwed up he believes everything he says.
So International Aid is now described as a terrorist threat when it is being supplied to your enemies.
But a genocide against the Palestinian people is a police action.
This is spinning faster than the speed of sound
June 2nd, 2010 8:09 pm ET
outraged governments may now leak their internal 9/11 intel to strike back
get ready & stand by
June 2nd, 2010 8:13 pm ET
Threat of Israeli false flag nuke attack at all time high.
Major factional fighting within Israel must be going on.
they must be tearing their hair out.
Usually Israel is very clever getting its way.
This is the MOST PROFOUND stupidity , my guess is the work of extreme faction inside Israel, trying to pull the rest along by force, Make things very extreme,thus pushing
Extreme action all must go along with.
Turkey is a military power greater than the whole Arab world combined.
Pound for pound twice as tough as Israel, but 10 times as big !
Nuking Turkey would be counter productive, so they got nothin.
Israel has painted itself in a corner,,indefencable position. they can only attack,
Israels favourite attck is false flag attack.
Get your Potassium Iodide !!
June 2nd, 2010 8:14 pm ET
Is it a faction or just stupid commanders? The best leader in the world can give orders but one idiot can screw it up in practice. There might have been simple intentions of inspecting the ship, or detaining the crew etc, but some drooling maniac decides any resistance calls for bloodshed. What is the Israeli government to do? Admit a mistake or play along like that was their intention all along?
June 2nd, 2010 8:18 pm ET
Zionism DOES NOT mean “believing that Israel has the right to exist.” That is the propaganda definition.
Israel started with terrorist gangs like Irgun that maintain power today and they define Zionism. All jews are not zionist even if they live in Israel.
Open waters means international waters that cannot legally be boarded without permission. It does not mean anyone on those waters can be attacked because the waters are “open.”
The goal of the raid was NOT to inspect it. The goal was to take over the ship and hurt and kill as many as possible to dissuade anyone else from thinking they might help those that the Zionist thugs want to ethnic cleanse from the land they want to take over.
June 2nd, 2010 8:21 pm ET
Who can believe anything the Israelis say now? They were completely tactless in their reaction about the arrival of the Freedom Flotilla. They imagined the world would either praise them or would say nothing. Everyone knows what they did, made complete fools of themselves in front of the world. The Freedom Flotilla was not a naval fleet it was relief effort for the besieged people of Gaza. If flotilla was naval fleet then Israeli helicopters would have shot down before they reach any ship and a full scale of naval bombardment of Israel would taken place, after every single Israeli ship was sunk. Israelis only know how to kill unarmed people. They call Hamas terrorists – Hamas are freedom fighters and Israelis have proven beyond a shadow of any doubt that it is terrorist country.
June 2nd, 2010 8:22 pm ET
I love watching the US and Israeli government bullies squirm. Turkey is in the driver’s seat and it has threatened Israel (don’t you love anyone threatening Israel for a change?) that if it doesn’t end the Gaza siege it will break all ties with Israel. Israel will never do that because its arrogance demands that it save face.Turkey could well then invoke the NATO war act whereby a non-NATO country–Israel–atacked a NATO country–Turkey–in international waters, which is an act of war. This would put America in the lovable position of having to defend a NATO ally Turkey against its ally Israel. Naturally the US would refuse which would definitvely end NATO, thereby making and empowering Russia and Iran.
The bullies are squirming. And Ahmadinejad will have the last laugh.
June 2nd, 2010 8:29 pm ET
Re; @ proud zionist____ Dear proud, you are by definition calling yourself a "Terrorist", but its OK`. We understand you are the chosen "Belial's" of ?
June 2nd, 2010 9:07 pm ET
I am a registered nurse and I had a similar experience trying to bring in medical aid. When the Israeli officers learned that we were bringing in medical supplies for a Palestenian Hospital, they confiscated the whole lot, and it dissapeared into thin air.
They said, and I quote, "Why would you want to help those animals?".
I have traveled there 3 times, and have seen unthinkable treatment by the Israeli citizens toward Palestenians.
The only reason this incident is in the news, is because US and Turkish citizens are tasting the treatment that Palestenians feel every day.
June 2nd, 2010 9:24 pm ET
No one is bashing the Jews. Just condemning Israel's violent treatment towards the Activists and the Palestinians. What does this has to do with someone's faith!! You sound like a mental case!
June 2nd, 2010 9:38 pm ET
Proud Zionist says, "liar, and prove me wrong, jewbasher"
Israel has not produced evidence of a single weapon. The lunatic state of Israel has gone of the deep end this time. And whats with the Jewbasher nonsense. In fact its the jews who have just murdered christian, muslim and non religious aid workers.
Funny thing is the Jews claim the aid workers grabbed Israeli army paint guns which have the magical ability to shoot live ammunition only when pointed at Israelis. The lies pouring out of Israel is soooo sickening.
June 2nd, 2010 9:47 pm ET
BLOODTHIRSTY ANTI-ISRAEL 'ACTIVISTS' DANCE WHEN ANYONE DIES
The 'Flotilla' incident.
Those Gaza Flotilla Ships!
Video: How Flotilla Leaders Attacked Navy Commandoes
From the" words are important" department What exactly is the humanitarian crisis that the flotilla was actually addressing?
Another "successful" stunt by anti-Israel happy activists, as always it's disguised under "activism" or "peace" or both: "Peace activism." I say "successful,", it is from their point of view, the more people die the more powerful their objective is, there might even be a tiny minoirity among the "activists" who have some gunuine concerns and are gullible led blindly, used by the vicious organizers that see to it, somehow, that something ugly occurs.
GENOCIDAL "PRO-PALESTINE ACTIVISTS"
The anti-Israel Arab Muslims activists (ISM & others) have a history, past and present of bluntly calling to 'Kill Jews.' Or, if you are not sure, ask them: " What does Itbach Al Yahud?" mean, they might explain to you, maybe, or give an obscure rationalization as some try with the "wiping off map" Islamic genocide campaign.
Or maybe you missed Muslim Students Association (MSA) members who would very much like for another Holocaust to happen?
Ask current students on campus, you might be shocked to the manner, content, goals and declarations all of the anti-Israel (bigotry) campaigns are accompanied with (the over all theme is hatred and legitimizing of killing Jews), yet, not one of them is shy from using-singing the "poor palestinian" song.
THE "PEACE ACTIVISM" WITH KNIVES
But Why does the CNN, BBC call the anti Israel racist Arab violent thugs as "peace activists?"
How can "peace activists" be so violent and INITIATE attacks with knives and metal bars hitting heads of security guys?
Geez, I never knew a "peace activism" could be so violent and so bloody.
It seems that Israeli security people have long stopped being seen as human beings, since most media ignored the injured ones in the hospital who simply explain that they had to shoot for fear their life was in danger.
A sincere independent media or political persnality would be shocked in the utter surprise violent attack by the 'Flotilla' Muslims "activists." First and foremost.
WHY DO CHECKPOINTS EXIST?
Does MSM expect Israelis – the very victim of Arab-Islamic bigoted attacks since its re-birth, not to check the incoming ships for weapons smuggling? Or, is it a secret that Palestinian-Arabs have used: pregnant women, UN vehicles, ambulances for weapons and bombers transport? Each time you board a plane and being searched, remember that Israelis non-Arab Jews have to go through this in any major crowded area, and remeber who's fault it is all. It's not Buddhism, nor, Christianity or Judaism!
A CALCULATED PLAN
How much greed, money was in the 'plan' of intentionally letting the Arab "activists" die in their initiated unprovoked confrontation, in the Hamas, Hezbollah Islamic-Arab global fundraising (besides of "victimhood" and damning Israel's image) objective?
It is always planned, the media should stop playing stupid for once, the same as when Palestine Hamas or "moderate" Fatah's Al-Aqsa brigade or Hezbollah shoot behind babies, attack Israelis who make the checkpoint stricter that triggers an outcry against "those bad Israelis."
If it's only about "giving humanitarian aid," Why not let Israelis give it to Gazans (provided that Palestinian leaders won't steal it as usual) and leave peacefully the area?
If the mission would be really a "humanitarian" and to "help poor Arab-Palestinians," Why not send the aid, why attack Israelis? Why not do honest humanitarian work for once and simply bring the food instead of bring knives with such a built up rage? Let me tell you why, because no one is "pro-Palestinian," absolutely no one cares about them, asides from using them, but all these Arabs, Muslims from Arab countries, or (mainly from Islamic) Turkey & Spain are really against Israelis, or Jews, that's exactly the gist of "Pro-Palestinian activism." As soon as Arab-Palestinians are better off (given that they change...) these "activists" [leaders] lose their anti-Israel-hate oxygen, they're so desperately hooked on.
This is not the first Gaza-STUNT-boat, and we haven't learned anything.
Isn't already a known fact –by now– that Palestinian or Iranian backed Hezbollah 'anti-Israel violent machine' has been abusing anything "humanitarian" for its propaganda purposes?
If these warriors & actions are 'peace,' what is war?
SHOULD ISRAEL PAY ATTENTION TO THE ROUTINE ALMOST BORING CONDEMNTATIONS IN THE 'ARAB-ISLAMIC LOBBY' CONTROLLED UN / AMNESTY?
Israel was always about survival and self defense, image – damage control was always secondary, this, and only this, is the first and last motivation for any action it ever takes, whereas the Arab-Islamic side cares less about life more about propaganda, in fact it is often so viciously sacrificing civilians for this very goal, the crude results of it all are there for all to see. Needless to say, Israel prefers to live than die-in-order to save its "image."
June 2nd, 2010 10:19 pm ET
Almost every aspect of this incident defies belief.
The Israelis cry self-defence, complaining about the fact that the activists on the boat were armed and intent on violence. Unless I have misunderstood, it was Israeli commandos who dropped onto the ships, in full combat gear, fully armed. The assault also took place in international waters. The aggression came unequivocally from the Israelis (no surprise there.) Their defence of their actions would be laughable if it wasn't disgusting given the events which have unfolded.
The Israelis also say that the activists were told that they could be escorted to an Israeli port and the aid delivered to Gaza. Can they explain therefore why much more aid is not allowed through or, preferably, why the barbaric blockade cannot lifted?
All the proposed sanctions threatened against Iran should be put into place immediately against Israel, the only true aggressors in the Middle East.
June 2nd, 2010 10:21 pm ET
The answer to this outrageous act by Israel, is for the USA (which funds it) to withdraw all financial and military aid. That would soon sort the ongoing problem out. But we all know that the USA has not got the guts to do that – it hasn't acted in response to previous atrocities and it will be no different either this time nor the next. In effect the USA is the second state of Israel.
June 2nd, 2010 10:23 pm ET
My thoughts go out to the families of those who died trying to help a besieged country.
June 2nd, 2010 10:26 pm ET
The actions of the Israeli military is simply "BARBARIC" at the very least and cannot be justified in any way or form by the Israeli government.It is time for Israel to wake up to the reality that the world is sick and tired of hearing the same old excuses for killing unarmed civilians and this time inside "International Waters".These actions are an insult to the world community and sadly it has lost the only trusted friend (Turkey) it had in the region and it would be true to say that Israel needs Turkey more than Turkey needing Israel.Shame on the UN for turning a blind eye to years of Israel's barbaric acts.
June 2nd, 2010 10:31 pm ET
It reminds me of people attacking policemens' boots with their heads, or Jews having "provoked" the Nazis.
June 2nd, 2010 10:35 pm ET
all the rational people of the world can do is pray that the world see sense and realises that all israel is hell bent on doing is holding onto the land they stole and will kill anybody who gets in there way, no matter who. As has been suggested boycott all Israeli goods and show your outrage at this action in a peaceful manner
June 2nd, 2010 10:37 pm ET
Unless they start obeying international law and fully sign-up to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty we should cut all trade and stop recognising Israel as a legitimate state.
June 2nd, 2010 10:39 pm ET
There had better be some proper coverage by CNN on the interviewing of the passengers on the boat and not just news coverage detailing the israeli spokespersons statement and speculation from an "expert"
June 2nd, 2010 10:41 pm ET
I find it unbelievable that people show disbelief at what has happend with the Gaza aid convoy in the mediteranean.Israel has done what it always does,disregard any international or humanetarian law,use disproportionate force,kill unarmed innocent people and then hide behind lies.If it is not sending murder squads to murder apponents in another country using fake passports,it send commandos to commit acts of pirecy and murder in INTERNATIONAL WATERS.Shame on Israels supporters who have let her become the monster it is today.
June 2nd, 2010 10:43 pm ET
If we had of had any sense we would have gone after Israel instead of Iraq As an Englishman I am disgusted that as a nation we stand by and do nothing as Israel flouts international law Iran is not the danger in the middle east it is Israel
June 2nd, 2010 10:47 pm ET
For so many years I have had sympathy for Israel. No longer – they are savages and I now regret the support I have felt for them in their fight for a 'homeland'. The UK (and the US) must make a stand against this murderous country.
June 2nd, 2010 11:36 pm ET
Patrick, you have no right to call us pathetic, i dont see your evidence either so keep your mouth close, the israeli's have been all working there asses off trien to settle all the lies and bullshit that people like you created, and im sorry for my language but im tired of hereing people bash Israel, i care for gaza and the palastinian people, but this does not change the fact that we must defend ourselves against terror
June 3rd, 2010 6:59 am ET
MOST OF YOU ARE ONE_SIDED because you don't want to understand why the Palestinians in Gaza are liviving so MISERABLY and it's not because of ISRAEL it is because of hamas and other idiotic terrorist have blowing thing s up, firing 1000,s of missiles into Israel for a FEW YEARS now and when Israel retaliates, you call them terrorist. KIND OF HIPOCRITICAL don't you think so.
Israel must not AND WILL NOT allow missiles or other weapons to enter Gaza. THAT is why they have to intercept and inspect the boats before allowing them to enter Gaza. That is what the blockade is all about.
When a soldier get assaulted with knives and steel rods and thrown over the side. what do you expect the soldiers to do. I know for a fact that I would start shooting and SO WOULD YOU.
Whether it is in international waters near Gaza or in the waters of Gaza is academic. The fact remains that this was all planned behind hamas. EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT ... Who are you trying to fool.
If you say "but there were no weapons on board" than you are a moron.
Israel will continue to search vessels for arms before it enters GAZA.
hamas sacrifices the Palestinians who live there so they may reign. If you haven't seen that by now, then i truly feel sorry for the Palestinian people.
June 3rd, 2010 7:05 am ET
Israel must not and will not allow weapons of any kind to enter GAZA. That is why there is a blockade.
This time there were no weapons to speak of.... How about next time, and the next one after that if Israel doesn't inspect them first.
It is hamas who is causing these poor Palestinians to live like they are and NOT ISRAEL.
Everybody WANTS PEACE except the terror people in Gaza.
June 3rd, 2010 7:30 am ET
Daniel, terror is not about stone throwing youth begging for food after being cut off from the world by Israel. You cowardly Israelis have no idea what real terror is all about!
Also you can't define terror as controlled demolitions and false flag attacks. Terror occurs when you are unable to prevent attacks. Israel could prevent attacks by ending its illegal 60 year old military occupation.
Daniel you will do well to remember that he who lives by the sword dies by the sword. You might be good at bombing stone throwing youth with high tech jets, but if you want to pick a fight with the world community you will find that you have no experience of fighting armies of equal strength.
But I don't think world communities will wait for government action if you repeat your murder of aid workers. People will start to take the matter into their own hands. If you have any sense at all, you wont want that to happen.
June 3rd, 2010 7:38 am ET
AIPAC controls American politics through bribery and corruption.
If the Mafia wants to control America, they simply need to invite themselves for dinner at AIPAC members homes. "Make a little negotiation and come to an understanding".
The American people are basically good people, but the have allowed their leaders to be hijacked by the scum of the earth. Only American political support allows Israel to murder civilian aid workers.
Obama can America do more than kiss Israels behind? "Yes we can". So man up and grab some balls. It time to end relations with Israel.
June 3rd, 2010 8:15 am ET
Daniel says,"i care for Gaza and the Palestinian people, but this does not change the fact that we must defend ourselves against terror"
God bless Daniel. After throwing Palestinians of the land they have lived in for generations, after assassinating Palestinian leaders, after imprisoning Palestinians without charge or access to a lawyer, after denying their right to have a home land, after bombing and killing 1400 Palestinian civilians in Dec 08, after killing aid workers armed with loaves of bread, after blockading Palestinian ports and roads, after applying brutal curfews, after preventing movement of people and movement of essential life saving products into Gaza.
After all that Daniel still has time to sit around the pool and tell his Jewish mates that he cares for Palestinians.
The aid workers are amazing people. Gandhi peacefully walked against the British army. He to was beaten and his followers were killed by the British army. But he kept on walking against the British lines until the British grew tired of killing civilians. Gandhi is now remembered as one of the most amazing people in history. But Gandhi put himself at risk for his own country. The aid workers risk themselves for others.
In times of so much wrong, it is wonderful to see humanity still has the ability to sacrifice for others. God bless the aid workers and all who sail with them.
ps Daniel, you say you care for Gaza. What have you done for the people of Gaza, except for robbing them from their land?
June 3rd, 2010 8:21 am ET
Another thing Daniel, the aid workers risk themselves to free others who suffer under military occupation.
Sounds a bit like the brave men and women of the west who sacrificed themselves to liberate the Jews from the nazis.
But now the Jews murder aid workers who are born in countries that liberated Jews from the holocaust.
And still Americans keep dying every week to fight an Israeli war in Iraq.
June 3rd, 2010 8:26 am ET
And CNN have you bothered to read interviews with commandos from civilized countries??
All military experts say this could have easily been managed without the loss of life. Approaching the boat from underwater and disabling the propellers was all they had to do.
Storming the boat was a warning,"help Palestine and we will kill you".
June 3rd, 2010 8:52 am ET
and all the others who claim to once have supported Israel,
if you believe the lies, and disinformation that's being propagated by the hate diseminaters, more fool you.
If you prefer to join the Iranian run, anti-democratic, terrorist, radical theocratic ideology, then it's your loss.
But I doubt you ever supported the legal right of the Jews for self-determination or their right to self-defense.
Anyone with a rational understanding of Israel would know who to believe and see through the lies and bias.
June 3rd, 2010 3:53 pm ET
Miriam, its not a choice between Iran or Israel. Israeli's support the murder of civilians, and thats all there is to it!!
Clearly your government has brainwashed you, if you really think killing unarmed aid workers is the right thing to do!!
Shame on you!! Do you have children? Do you have any idea what Israel has become.
All the boats were checked out by NATO countries before setting sail. All knew there were no weapons or dangerous objects onboard.
There never was and never will be justification for all the innocent lives Israel has taken from this earth.
June 3rd, 2010 4:30 pm ET
Those Israelis living without limbs blown off by suicide bombers and without parents who were killed after being stoned on their way home from work will disagree with your foolish, conspiratorial fantasies.
AIPAC is just one of many lobby groups, all influencial and legitimate. The fact that the US shares the same values as Israel and that the majority of the population elects leaders who share the same values is the reason the US supports Israel and agrees with the opinions of AIPAC rather than being influenced by it.
If you prefer the values of anti-western, anti-democratic, radical Islamicism, you should move/stay in one of their states and worry about the oppressed populations living under their rule.
June 3rd, 2010 4:40 pm ET
Obviously those other naval commandos belonged to militaries that are far less humane than the IDF!
Why do you think that method was rejected?
Israel did not want to see hundreds of people stuck out at sea, dying of thirst and starvation and sun-stoke. The bread you claim they were delivering would have been as hard as rock, but as it was, there was barely any aid on the boats, especially the Marmara!
You are oblivious, or more likely blind, to the identities of those killed and many of those on board.
These were not aid workers but political provocateurs, not interested in helping Palestinians but instead intent of dying as shahids in an operation against Israelis.
June 3rd, 2010 5:00 pm ET
It's no surprise people on this blog have such warped views of reality when you have reports such as that of Ben Wedeman in Gaza, spinning tales of distorted information,
UNRWA has encouraged the majority of the Gazan population to live on aid ever since its founding in 1949. and implying that this is because of Israel's blockade is wrong.
Unlike other media, Wedeman will not show you the well stocked markets and the falling prices due to over supply.
As mentioned in the piece, Gazans need to be lied to in order to have hope.
This has been the story of their lives, living on one lie after another, whether coming from their leaders, the Arab world, the UN or the international community including the media and CNN.
Perhaps it's time to stop lying and tell them the truth.
It'll be hard for them to swallow, and for all those who have been deceived by the same myths, but at least the real reasons for their hardship will be revealed.
June 3rd, 2010 10:15 pm ET
Despite its intensive efforts to hide and spin what happened aboard the Mavi Marmara in the early hours of May 31, the world saw Israel use exactly the sort of indiscriminate brutality documented in the Goldstone Report.
This time, however, it was not just "expendable" Palestinians or Lebanese who were Israel's victims – but people from 32 countries and every continent. It was the day the whole world became Gaza. And like the people of Gaza, the world is unlikely to take it lying down.
June 4th, 2010 7:05 am ET
Turkey and Ataturk legacy
1: The teaching of modern sciences in Turkey was established by 300 Jewish professors (read the Jews of Bosporus)
2: After the Earth quick disasters Israel provided massive help to Turkey
3; The Arabs revolt was one of the key factors in WW1 Turkey defeat
4; Arabs help to Turkey was insignificant
•Was Ataturk dreaming to partner with parties like Hams with the charter of: Islam rules worldwide- Kill all Jews?
June 4th, 2010 7:07 am ET
Israel has pretty much always been on the same level as Hamas:
In 1948 Haganah (a Jewish anti-British paramilitary organisation) became the Israeli Defence Force (IDF), Etzel (a terrorist organisation led by Menachim Begin) and Lehid (the terrorist Stern Gang led by Yitzhak Shamir) were required to join the IDF and cease independent existence.
Other notable members of Haganah were:
All of whom became important political figures in the new state of Israel, and in most cases Prime Minister (Begin, Shamir, Rabin and Sharon).
In 1946, Etzel, otherwise known as Irgun, carried out the terrorist attack on the King David Hotel (British Headquarters) killing 92, unsurprisingly, most of whom were civilians...
Therefore it should come as no surprise to anyone that the Israelis, through their actions against the convoy, continue to carry out these kinds of acts. Such acts are after all part of their history...
A nation founded on terrorism will continue to terrorise...
June 4th, 2010 7:32 am ET
Israel & America will create a major false flag attack and wage war on Iran before November 2010.
The US mid term elections are poised to throw out established liars, banksters and AIPAC fans from Capital Hill.
The corrupt liars, banksters and AIPAC fans will create a threat to world peace before the elections and use it for propaganda to remain in power.
Smith in Oregon
June 4th, 2010 9:04 am ET
Autopsy's in Turkey on the 9 dead brought there indicated 5 were executed by shots to the head, one was a mere 2 centimeters between the machine gun muzzle to the skull of the victim.
One of the survivors stated hundreds of Israeli sailors attempted a zodiac assault raft attack to board the vessels which failed.
The Israeli's then fired thousands of paint balls with glass shards inside of them which produced horrific soft flesh wounds.
Then the Israeli Commando's used helicopters to rappel down on the ship in the darkness, they were carrying M4 machine guns with a M203 Grenade launcher which they raked the decks and people with lethal 5.56mm rifle rounds.
Estimates are some 50 were wounded, 10 killed, 5 of the dead died from a single shot to the head, an American citizen was shot in the head and multiple places on his body as well among the dead.
Another American was shot in the face by a Israeli Commando's M4 Machine Gun using the M203 Grenade launcher to fire a tear gas canister right into his face. He lost his eye, but not his life.
Smith in Oregon
June 5th, 2010 5:57 am ET
There are still 600 peace activists in Israeli detention, only 50 so far have been released.
Here are just a sampling from those 50 peace activists and the murder and mayhem that many of them saw and experienced:
A peace activist described how a doctor and a journalist were both executed at close range, and said another activist was murdered as he was surrendering.
"I took off my shirt and waved it, as a white flag. We thought they would stop after seeing the white flag, but they continued killing people," he said.
Another activist described how the Israeli Commando's open fire with lethal machine gun fire from the helicopter before throwing stun grenades, smoke and gas canisters onto the deck of the French Cargo ship and rappelling down onto the ship. All of which appears to have been edited out by the Israeli soldiers filming the assault.
Another peace activist related how some Israeli Commando's used wooden batons and cattle prods in a completely indiscriminate manner on anyone they came upon in a brutal manner. They converged on the French Captain who refused to release the cargo ship's wheel and brutally beat him, he later was SHOT.
A peace activist filming the bloodbath was savagely beaten and then a Israeli Commando took his machine gun and the rifle butt was slammed against his face.
The Israeli Commando's seized all the civilian passengers cameras, laptops and cell phones including the above film makers equipment in a heavy handed attempt to cover up the murders and bloodshed.
During interrogation numerous peace activist's described being savagely beaten, hit by wooden batons and repeatedly shocked by cattle prods during their interrogation by the Israeli soldiers.
A peace activist said the ship was surrounded by small Israeli assault boats on Monday morning at about 0430 local time.
"Moments later, we heard detonations and then soldiers from helicopters above us dropped down on board.
"The soldiers were all masked, carrying big machine guns and were extremely brutal." He said he only saw three activists resisting on the entire French vessel. "The three had no knives, no axes, only sticks that they used to defend themselves,".
The French autopsy's appear to back up the claim of executions being conducted by the Israeli Commando's on unarmed peace protesters, 5 of the dead were found medically to have been murdered by a single shot to the head at close range.
Interpol should be pushed to place International Crimes against the Israeli Officials and Commando's who planned and conducted this assault on the peace activists.
Interpol should be Charging them with:
Concealing a crime
Removing evidence of a crime
Inappropriate response of lethal force
June 5th, 2010 11:08 am ET
Why do the Israelis keep making the false claim to deliver the aid to Gaza??
We all know that Israel considers over 80% of aid unfit and a security threat. School books a security threat? Pots of jam a security threat? Wheel chairs a security threat? Israel did not attemp to deliver most of the aid. Israel keeps most of the aid which is theft!
Israels propoganda trick was to deliver 20% of the aid and claim that they are not blocking aid. Hamas answered this very well, as they will not accept property stolen via murder from Israel.
The USA has lost all moral arguements as it supports Israel which breaks all international laws. Hamas can not be thought of as a terror organisation for resisting illegal acts of Israel.
Please remember that every leader of Israel has been a former member of the terrorist gangs Irgung or Stern gang.
Israel was founded by terrorists and a legitimate war on terror should force Israel to comply with international law.
Smith in Oregon
June 6th, 2010 11:21 pm ET
The Turkish medical forensic examiners have indicated the unarmed American citizen on board the French flagged Gaza Food and Medical supply peace flotilla that was executed was shot 4 times in the head at multiple angles, behind the head, in the forehead and in the temple at extremely close range, (point blank) by the Israeli Commando's.
This execution of a American Citizen by Israeli Commando's appears to be identical to mobsters with a grudge who shoot their victim multiple times in the face at close range to 'make them ugly'. The resulting carnage is so extreme, it guarantees the victim is buried in a closed casket without being viewed by the family and friends.
It's really sad that the brutal execution of an American civilian citizen by the Israeli Commando's has been swept under the carpet by the News Media. The American people know the Israeli claim of self-defense is a outrageous lie, this was a act of terrorism.
June 7th, 2010 1:21 am ET
Dear Miriam and Daniel and other good Israeli supporters.
Don't bother even to answer those people, I do not think they represent anybody except themselves. They are actualy getting paid by somebody for this vicious ignorant propaganda. Maybe some of them lives on their countries , and don't no nothing about what happends here. The funny thing is that they also claim the Media is controled by Jews. If that is a fact so why can't I see real news, and many facts we know and our enemies shows in their sites. And to think that European type is "good inteligent and polite " . Well maybe i am wrong about them and those creatures make those remarks are not real european, just " false europeans" or maybe they are really blind. well I am sure the real wise guys looking more seriously at the net, checking as well muslims country news, maybe they will figure out the truth. Just one small point for those who really are sopposed to be EU citzens. Just read other articles about Darfur refugees that cross the border to Israel to look for a better life ( and by their names they are muslims !!!) from the other side of the border are the egiptians which are also muslims !!! but in the other side they shut them and we are the ones that accept them, provide them jobs, and yes !!! give them Human rights (Even though we are racist and arrogant jews !!! that " murder muslims" ) . have much more to say, but who reads this crap that we the " murderrors" write. Only us. So let be strong go with the good faith , and our light will ilulluminate their Darkness !!!
June 7th, 2010 8:48 pm ET
Your accounts seem to include some wild fantasies.
Most genuine activists, none of whom were peace activists otherwise they would not have been breaking international law by breaking a legal blockade, were ordered down to the lower levels by the violent mercenaries and therefore did not see anything until commando bodies started being thrown over the bannisters and dragged down the stairs as captives.
We all know that 5 of the ships did not resist and that the 6th contained a core group of affiliates of terror groups who recorded their shaheedist intentions in advance and then fulfilled their dream while attacking Israeli soldiers who rightly or wrongly expected less violent protests..
You also have no idea what commandos wear when in action, particularly marine commandos from every nation.
US citizens have been caught and killed while involved in terrorist operations in several locations around the world. This is no longer novel and especially newsworthy.
BTW, the tear-gas cannister story is totally unconnected.
Just proof that your stories are mostly rumours, myths and innaccurate.
June 7th, 2010 9:04 pm ET
fellipe and Francesca,
You are both blinded to the facts and indoctrinated by the hate if you still believe that all the passengers were "innocent civilians".
Under international law, Israel could have sunk the ships attempting to break the legal blockade.
Claims of indiscriminate killing is rediculous considering that the casualty count was relatively low in military terms and all were male, Turkish and affiliated with terrorist groups.
Even Turkish media is proud to show off the injuries inflicted on IDF soldiers, a move likely to backfire since it undisputedly proves the use of weapons in the violent attack on the commandos.
No wonder Erdogan isn't happy!
June 7th, 2010 9:16 pm ET
You want to know why we need independent journalism, and why those of you who are reading this article need to support the publication in which it is appearing and the article in which it originally appeared? Because if you rely for your news on the US corporate media, whether ad-supported or underwriter-supported, you won’t learn that Furkan Dogan, the 19-year-old American citizen slain by Israeli commandos in the raid on the Gaza-bound flotilla May 31, was shot in the back and in the back of the head, as well as multiple times in the face.
This is the conclusion of the autopsy conducted by the Turkish Council of Forensic Medicine, which also did autopsies on the eight other Turkish citizens killed in the Israeli raid on the Mavi Marmara ferry and five other smaller boats in the so-called Freedom Flotilla. Of the other eight dead, the medical examiners found that five had been shot in the back, or in the back of the head.
This critically important information has not appeared in US news reports. Some American news organizations have left out the autopsy information entirely from their reports as of Saturday. CNN, in its report on Friday, did note that five of the nine were shot in the head, and at close range, but the all-important fact that most of the victims were shot from behind was left out. ABC had the same information on Thursday, again without mentioning the shots from behind. In its article on Friday, the NY Times had yet to even name Dogan, the American victim, much less mention the bullets that hit him or how he was shot.
And yet, if you’re trying to establish what happened on that ship, the direction of the firing, not just the number of bullets, or the distance from which they were fired, is crucial.
I had some experience with this as a reporter in Los Angeles, back in the 1970s. There was a story that ran in all the local papers, including the LA Times, and my paper, the LA Daily News, about a 14-year-old kid killed by police while he was burglarizing an empty house in the San Fernando Valley. All the papers reported the police story that he had been shot and killed when police entered the house on a call of a burglary, and he “turned and appeared to be carrying a gun” (it turned out to be some camera equipment he was trying to cart off).
Did the IDF Execute Mavi Marmara Victims?
On a hunch, I decided to look more into the story, and as my beat was county government, I went to visit the coroner’s office. There I was shown, at my request, the drawings and report on the boy’s autopsy. What I discovered was that all the police bullets entered the boy’s back. He was shot while fleeing the police, not while turning to face them.
If you’re a real reporter, not a stenographer to power, you’ve got to ask. A reporter from the Guardian did ask. US reporters did not ask. Or if they did ask, they didn’t put the answer in their reports. Or if they did put the answer in their reports, editors removed the answer. And so far, no reporter has come forward to protest this news blackout, even anonymously.
In this current case of the Israeli commando assault on the Gaza aid flotilla, if victims were shot in the back or in the back of the head, then one is left really with only two possible conclusions: either the shooters, who were the Israeli commandos (according to Israel, no Israeli soldiers were themselves shot, plus all the recovered bullets were 9 mm, the type of shells in the Israeli weapons, making it clear who had the guns), fired at people who were fleeing from them, or alternatively they shot people from the front, and later executed them with shots to the back of the head, which is maybe even worse (certainly a war crime).
There aren’t many other possible explanations, and either way we’re talking about criminal behavior on the high seas in what many are calling an act of piracy, or else an act of war against a NATO nation.
I suppose if only one of the nine victims had exhibited a rear head wound, one might at least theorize a scenario in which he might have spun around upon being shot in the face, and the commando, firing rapidly, might have gotten off one unneeded extra round that caught the victim from the rear. But for that to happen five times requires a tremendous suspension of disbelief.
So much for the Israeli government propaganda about its poor and unprepared commandos being surprised and set upon by vicious “terrorists” on the boat, armed with kitchen knives, sticks and metal rods, when they were anticipating nothing but peaceful resistance. (This absurd story line was contradicted by Israel’s other story line, that it considered the organizer of the flotilla, the Turkish IHH charity, to be linked to Hamas and Hezbollah, and that it “knew” that Palestinian terrorists had insinuated themselves among the boat’s activists–a claim which, if true, means the commandos would have been, and surely were, well-armed and prepared for a truly violent reception.)
In any event, what the autopsies reveal is a massacre, with commandos deliberately murdering activists on the boats–either directly, or after initially wounding them.
What they also reveal is the shameless pro-Israel bias of the US media, which has simply decided that facts uncomfortable to Israel and its US government backer are not news that’s “fit to print.”
You can read about the autopsies in the U.K. Guardian newspaper, or in Switzerland (SwissInfo) or in Australia (the Melbourne Age), and you can even read it in a Reuters report (which is a news service that most American news organizations subscribe to, but which they actually show their readers only selectively), but you cannot read it or hear about it in the mainstream US media, where most Americans unfortunately still turn for their information.
That is unacceptable.
June 7th, 2010 9:19 pm ET
Did the IDF Execute Mavi Marmara Victims?
June 7th, 2010 9:35 pm ET
The aid workers wanted to give Gazans baby formula. The Jews can’t have that as they are slowly starving the Palestinians to death all with a smile. In the last couple months the state of Israel has done an excellent job of showing people that they are little different than modern day Nazis.
June 7th, 2010 9:38 pm ET
why is it that the white house celebrates a jewish day only??
how about irish day?
or hispanic day?
or african day?
the jews are less than 2% of america yet they get a day in the white house to celebrate the crimes of their history.
June 7th, 2010 9:47 pm ET
This land does not belong to israel.Never was and never will.
The time will come when the Palestinians will ruturn to the land they love.
You can rant all you want and you can accuse me and every one else of jew hating as you please,but facts are facts.
If some white boys listen to all your rants and support your crimes choose to do so its up to them,but you know that the tide is changing in America and every American with honor is waking up to all the crimes against humanity that Zionists justify.
Self defence is not defence when you live on stolen land….Palestine is stolen..you will give it back in peace or by force its your choice but the end is near.
How did your israeli buddies or family get rid of the British ?
How many acts of terror did you commit against England?
How many hotels and buses and restaurants did you blow up?
Do you know that some of Israeli leaders still have ” wanted for terrorism ” posters all over Europe?
Israel has a real history of commiting terror.
The difference Israel and the Palestinians is that Israel blew up buildings to rob a country. Where as the Palestinians do it to get THEIR country back!
Google Israeli terrorist leaders and learn the real history of Zionist Israel.
June 7th, 2010 9:51 pm ET
What Israhell just did is beyond OBNOXIOUS! We should be repeating the same thing as the Berlin airlift to rescue the Gazans from the state terrorism of the Irgun mafia who are trying to starve the Palestinians out (obviously) to take their land.
Bravo Helen Thomas! Turkey please send warship escorts!!
June 7th, 2010 9:52 pm ET
I LOVE HELEN THOMAS
LONG LIVE HELEN
June 7th, 2010 9:58 pm ET
Israel don’t want weapons in Gaza, because they want the Palestinians to lay down and die already (i.e. not fight back). This is the same reasoning given for prohibiting Red Indians from having fire arms on reservations in America.
June 7th, 2010 10:02 pm ET
Kennedy and Lo Tirtzakh ( perhaps you should change your name to Haganah Atzmit),
You have no idea of the origins of the Haganah as have been discussed many times on this blog.
After the British were handed the mandate to re-establish a Jewish homeland and after 80% of the Mandate was given to the Hashemite family from Saudi Arabia to create the Kingdom of Jordan, the Arabs were still not satisfied with their generous gift and decided to attack both the Jewish communities and the British who were supposed to protect them since the Jews were denied the right to self-defense.
With the increasing death count among Jewish residents and the inability of the British to protect them, defense groups were created by the Jews, the Haganah, the Jewish leadership strictly restricting their activities to defense.
Attacks by Arabs increased, and their intimidation and attacks on the British forced some British to join in attacking Jews.
Certain members of the Haganah, who could not comprehend why they had to watch as attack after attack was committed with the permission of the very forces who were supposed to be responsible for re-establishing a Jewish state, decided to actively defend and eventually retaliate against the British.
Most of their activities were against the British, with warnings such as in the King David, but a small number of extremists took their actions too far.
After the Arabs rejected the Partition Plan and the Arabs of the British Mandate declared war on the Jews, the Haganah became the Jewish army and with the establishment of Israel and the invasion of Arab armies, became the IDF. One of the first actions taken by the new government was to forcefully dissolve the splinter groups, having already destroyed their shipments of weapons.
Most Israeli leaders were in the Hagana, just as most leaders serve in the IDF. Those who had been involved in the Irgun were excluded from leadership roles for many years by which time they had denounced earlier activities and had gained the respect of Israelis and the international community alike.
In contrast, the closer the Palestinians get to statehood, the greater the proliferation of terrorist groups, which the leadership has failed to dismantle quietly or forcefully.
Today, the terrorists are only being supported and strengthened by an international community that has lost its moral compass in favour of hate, bigotry and a rhetoric full of lies and disinformation.
June 7th, 2010 10:08 pm ET
It was not Muslim’s who just brutally pirated a humanitarian aid flotilla sailing under the flag of a NATO member. No, it was a bunch of Jews who did that.
Let’s stop this charade of “half a dozen of one, six of the other”. Sometimes, it is the case that one side is more deeply in the wrong than the other. With Isreal, this is the case through and through.
June 7th, 2010 10:09 pm ET
Israel has lost credibility with their Nazi mentality. The way they handled the aid ships approach to Gaza while in international waters is just the latest in a long string of typical aggressive Zionist behavior.
We must never forget the holocaust … of Jenin, Sabra, Shatila, Gaza and of all the others.
Smith in Oregon
June 8th, 2010 11:18 pm ET
Under the laws of the International UN charter, vessels on the high seas are subject to the jurisdiction of the flag state of that vessel. No one can board. Exceptions include: a vessel that doesn’t fly a flag, a vessel suspected of being pirated, or vessels suspected of violating international sanctions, such as North Korean ships thought to carry nuclear materials. Even carrying weapons at sea doesn’t violate international law.
That’s why international jurists say Israel cannot legally justify the boarding of a sovereign ship protected under the charter. “In legal terms, the Turkish ship was Turkish territory,” argues former British Ambassador Craig Murray, a fellow at the University of Lancaster School of Law.
Marcelo Kohen, a law professor at Geneva’s Graduate Institute of International Studies, agrees that the requirements needed to claim Israel's justification were not complete. “Hamas is not a state," he says. "There is also at present a cease-fire on Gaza," whereas the San Remo ruling which is not a International Law is assumed to be relevant in a state of war, says Kohen.
Israel broke International Laws when they intercepted and boarded the NATO flagged peace flotilla ships in International Waters, executing 9 passengers and should be held fully accountable before a unbiased International Court.
June 9th, 2010 4:15 pm ET
wow you guys are prety pathetic. You have acctually been turned into the same pawns that the desparet 1930's germans were turned into by the nazis..."the jews are taking over the country, just look at all their lobby's " all of witch do huge amounts to better and advance amercian scociety and the economy The same B-S that hitler fed to the germans are being fed to you by the arabs and jihadi's. Why do you think the germans went on a rempage dystroing jewish buisnesses. How bout another "amercian troops dying for israels war on iraq" its the same B-S that hitler said about why they lost the first world war, caus the jews ruined the war effort and it was obviously a jew who assasinated Prince Ferdinand in sarajevo (ignoring the fact that 1000's of jews died in ww1 FIGHTING FOR THE GERMANS, as well as forgeting that the US entered the arabian gulf in the early 90's not at the behest of israel but because the saudi's and kuwati's couldnt defend themselfs from iraq. And just like Iran is complicating every effort the US makes in the middle east to bring stability and security in the regioun and maybe even a democratic system for the people, Iraq would have done the same under saddam Husain. Its rediculous that you are forgeting the lobby's that acctually hurt people in the US like the drug company lobby's and the energy company lobby's. WAKE UP ALL YOU SELF RIGHTIOUS LIBRALS and reolize who you are in bed with. HAMAS? Hezbolah? Islamic Jihad? (a violent terror group that operates with the blessings of hamsas in GAZA)
June 9th, 2010 4:38 pm ET
Your ignorance is not completly your fault though because the western media is very good at filtering the stories they publish to fit their story line. journalist dont like being proved wrong just like the rest of us. It is the only reason for them not to include stories such as the CROPED PICTURES OF THE RAID that RUETERs issued and has since pulled and apologized for in both the Lebanon conflict and in the pictures released to turkish news outlets 2 days ago.
Its also important to note (not that CNN would) that palestinians in the west bank are experiancing an economic and developmental boom never before seen with checkpoints bieng taken down every week. The difference between gaza and the west bank is that the Palestinian Authority in the west B. is not on a quest to destroy israel, therefor their ppl are bettering themselves. The exact opposite in Gaza occures. Hamas is only trying to kill as many jews as they can, so their people are suffering. This isn't a coincidence. I palestinians acctually want to work with the israelis they will benifit, as they are right now. But if that isn't an option for them, they will live in a state of war forever.
June 9th, 2010 5:44 pm ET
THE TURKISH GOVERNMENT
Without historical and geopoloitical context you will not be able to understand why things are happening the way they are.
Since the mid to late 90's the Turkish gov. has been trying the enter the EU and has infact done a more than comendible job of trying to reach EU standards in economic, political, military, and the media arena. And from an economic standpoint everything looks promising for turkey but there are a number of problems that couldnt be ignored
1. the historical devide between the turkish gov. and the military. The army in turkey sees itself as the last line of defence of the Ataturk secularisation reforms of the early 1900s and has stepped in on numerous occasians sometimes in the form of coups if thoes principles are in danger. a country whos military and civilian leadership are not on the same page cannot be in the EU since in effect, all things agreed on with the gov only stands so far as the military allows it to
2. Europe is now facing the consiquences of the 1970s agreement with arab and muslim oil rich country's that let enormous numbers of arabs and mslims imigrate to europe. the cultural integration of thoes ppl have been extreamly poor to say the least and the intimidation of native europeans from thoes muslim comunities can be felt in politics and in every day life. I wish it was just hersay just look at the population numbers and the political discorse in even the most libral of country's like the netherlands. Accepting turkey into the EU would mean for free, unabriged and unchecked travel and emigration from turkey to all european countries. i dont blame them for hesitating.
3. As much as Europe talks about a post nationalistic, more humanistic society the old grudges and rivalry's are still very much alive. None more apperant than the greek-turkish issue. The greeks were the number one opponents followed by the french of turkish membership. Alas humans are not the forgive and forget typ we all wish we were.
There are many other reasones but thoes are most likely the biggest. This along with the impending collaps of the US and European financial systems made for a compelling advertisment for the anti freedom, tyranical countries like iran, syria, and russia. Who make no bones about the fact that they dont really care what you do in your country or to others as long as the cheque is on time and in the mail.
June 9th, 2010 5:53 pm ET
In my last post i forgot to mention that i would gues that the greeks and the french know their role in what has lead to turkey's fall from grace. It is also my gues that it is for that reason that the french and greeks have been the two european countries most damning of the raid and critical of israel. It effectivley throws anyone trying to do some digging off the scent of their culpability to today's internation situation
June 9th, 2010 6:30 pm ET
smith in oregon
did you se ethe autopsy report?
I saw the terrorists on the mamara brandishing long knives at israeli soldiers they had beaten almost to a pulp and that were dragged down the stairs to who knows where to be executed????
but you known jew basher are not impressed by facts, the Hamas and Turk lies turn into truth for you
Smith in Oregon
June 9th, 2010 9:56 pm ET
How very sad that CNN's own Wolf Blitzer appears in the CNN Situation Room and has absolutely no understanding why Brazil and Turkey wouldn't back Sanctions against Iran.
Obviously Turkey had brokered a humanitarian mission to broker the small amount of slightly enriched Uranium that Iran has with a complete set of fuel rods that Brazil has for Iran's small medical reactor.
Obviously Turkey is very unhappy about 9 civilians on its Turkish Flagged cargo ship being executed by the Israeli Commando's in their attack upon the Gaza peace Food and Medical supply flotilla.
What is not so obvious but should certainly be known by CNN investigators is that for decades the CIA has supplied and trained the Kurdish Tribes directly across from Turkey's border. The CIA did that in hopes the Kurdish tribesmen would originally enter into Iran and attack Iranian troops. Later, the CIA hoped the Kurdish tribesmen would attack Saddam's troops. HOWEVER, many of the Kurdish Tribes had ancient disputes with the Turks living beside the border of both Iraq and Turkey and instead began slaughtering Turkish civilians. That continued until finally Turkey sent diplomats to the White House in America and demanded the CIA cease all such support and weapons supply to the Kurds period.
And Turkey has a great deal of leverage in the US-Middle East situation. A huge amount of US Military convoys travel thru Turkey to Afghanistan and to Iraq. The airspace over Turkey is also highly used by the US Military transport jets to ferry cargo to Afghanistan and to Iraq. ANY attack by Israel upon Iran would require its fighter-jets cross thru Turkey's airspace.
I strongly suggest Turkey realize that Israel now considers Turkey to be a enemy of Israel and react accordingly. Close Turkey's airspace to Israeli Jet's, stop all previous agreements the Turkish Govt. and Turkish Military had with Israel AND tell America that any further Turkish civilian deaths by the Israeli Commando's or CIA armed Kurdish fighters will result in Turkey closing it's airspace to America's Jet's, and closing its borders to the US Military convoys.
Turkey should accept Russia's new good will and purchase multiple S-300 anti-aircraft missile batterys to add to their country in case Israeli Fighter Jet's decide to go rabid and bomb Turkey.
June 10th, 2010 5:46 pm ET
Israel Doctored the Evidence: The Gaza Freedom Flotilla and Al Qaeda
The attack and murder of international humanitarian activists, aid workers and a journalist by the Israeli military on the Mavi Maramara on May 31, 2010 in international waters is an unjustifiable act of aggression. It can be interpreted as either an act of piracy or as an act of war. Nor is this type of behaviour on the part of Israel new.
Israel could never justify forcefully stopping an international convoy of ships going to the Gaza Strip to help relieve the Palestinian people. This is why Tel Aviv deliberately instigated fighting with unarmed civilians on board the Mavi Maramara, fabricated evidence, and has hereto tried its best to portray the international group of civilians or some of its members as violent extremists.
False Israeli claims about Weapons on the Gaza Freedom Flotilla
Tel Aviv has turned reality on its head and tried to portray itself as the victim of the unarmed civilian group of international humanitarians, aid workers, and activists as the aggressors. Israeli officials have released pictures of standard ship equipment and kitchen knives collected from the Mavi Maramara. They claim that these were weapons
being carried or smuggled by violent extremists. Even vests with clear Red Crescent symbols used by doctors, medics, and humanitarian workers of the International Red Cross and Red Crescent were presented by Israeli officials as proof that the members of the Gaza Freedom Flotilla were violent extremists.
The Guardian (Connolly, 3 June 2010) in an interview with Henning Mankell, the Swedish writer, gives an account of how the Israelis were categorizing anything that they could as a weapon:
“The soldiers checked the boat and one soon returned saying they had found weapons, Mankell said. ‘I have 24 witnesses to this, he showed me my razor, a one-time use razor, and a box cutter he’d found in the kitchen,’ Mankell said.”
The passengers onboard the Mavi Maramara were defending themselves and not out to kill the so-called Israeli commandos. Picture evidence proves that the Israeli account is false. The passengers even gave medical aid to the Israeli commandos they captured. The pictures were on a chip hidden by a passenger so that the Israelis would not destroy the evidence.
False Israeli claims about Al-Qaeda links to the Gaza Freedom Flotilla
The Israeli military has also overtly claimed that members of the Gaza Freedom Flotilla were linked to Al-Qaeda. Tel Aviv put out a press release on June 2, 2010 making such claims to the international media.
When asked by reporters Max Bluementhal (3 June 2010) and Lia Tarachansky what evidence the Israeli military had to support its Al-Qaeda claims, Israeli military officials replied that they had no evidence and that they were simply told by Benjamin Netanyahu’s advisors of Israel’s National Security Council that the activists onboard the Gaza Freedom Flotilla had ties to Al-Qaeda. Later this was retracted and taken off the webpage of the Israeli military.
Caught Red Handed: Israel Doctored the Audio Evidence
The Israeli military also released a doctored audio transmission in which unknown voices say “Shut up, go back to Auschwitz” and “We’re helping Arabs go against the U.S., don’t forget 9/11 guys.” Upon the release of the Israeli evidence, the organizers of the Gaza Freedom Flotilla strongly refuted the Israeli claim as doctored propaganda.
Firstly, the first release by Israel had no responses except a male voice saying “Negative. Negative.”
Secondly, in the second audio transmission the male individual(s) who made the comments never identified himself (themselves), but Israeli officials have confirmed that the response came from the Mavi Maramara.
Thirdly, from studies of these organizations, there is a standard radio response that humanitarian workers and activists have been systematically using when coming into contact with Israeli military vessels under which they identify themselves, state their intentions as humanitarians, and tell the Israelis they are peaceful and pose no threat. This standard response can be heard in the unedited Israeli version of the audio in which the speaker Huwaida Arraf also identifies herself as speaking for the Gaza Freedom Flotilla.
In the recording Arraf clearly says:
“Israeli Navy, this is the Freedom Flotilla. We are comprised of six motor vessels carrying only passengers and humanitarian aid destined for the Gaza Strip. We do not carry anything that constitutes a threat to your armed forces. Therefore, you are not justified in using any force against us. The blockade of Gaza is illegal under international law. We have permission from the Gaza Port Authority to enter. We repeat, we do not constitute a threat to your armed forces. You are not just..[radio interruption; the word she is using is “justified”] to threat unarmed civilians. Over.”
Following the well documented work of Huwaida Arraf and of these humanitarian organizations one would know that this has roughly been their standard response to the Israeli military. In the doctored Israeli releases almost all of this is cut out. All you hear in English is “Shut up, go back to Auschwitz”(unknown male voice), “We have permission from the Gaza Port Authority to enter” (Huwaida Arraf), and “We’re helping Arabs go against the U.S., don’t forget 9/11 guys” (unknown male voice) as an answer to the Israelis.
Fourthly, there is a big problem with the Israeli claim. Arraf was on the Challenger I and not onboard the Mavi Maramara. Many journalists caught on to this. Arraf makes things clear in an interview with Mya Guarnieri (6 June 2010):
“‘I was on the radio the whole time there was any communication,’ Arraf told Ma’an. ‘Mine was the only boat in which I answered and not the captain and they all answered in a very professional manner.’ Arraf told Ma’an that while she might have spoken of having permission from the Gaza Port Authority on a previous attempt to break the blockade, she is certain that she did not say it on Monday morning.”
The voice of Arraf was added from somewhere else. The audio is an extract from a past radio transmission. Under pressure, the Israeli military (5 June 2010) was forced to admit in an official press release that it had released an edited audio transmission to the international press and the world. In what amounted to little more than a failed coverup, the Israeli military (5 June 2010) press release states:
“This transmission had originally cited the Mavi Marmara ship as being the source of these remarks, however, due to an open channel, the specific ship or ships in the ‘Freedom Flotilla’ responding to the Israeli Navy could not be identified.”
While cutting out substantial and important points, the Israelis claimed that they edited and shortened the audio tape for listeners to understand. This is clearly false when the audio transmissions are studied.
In what amounts to a disgraceful bungle, the audio tapes were clearly doctored by the Israelis to frame the humanitarians onboard the Gaza Freedom Flotilla as violent bigots. The Israeli serviceman talking on the radio does not even say the exact same things in the different versions of the so-called transmissions. Before he says: “This is the Israeli Navy.” Yet, in the so-called unedited version the Israeli serviceman says “This is Israeli Navy,” with the word “the” missing. Moreover, even though the Israelis now claim they used an open line, no one else on the Gaza Freedom Flotilla heard any of these comments.
In the words of Haaretz, one of Israel’s major newspapers:
“The Israeli propaganda machine has reached new highs its hopeless frenzy. It has distributed menus from Gaza restaurants, along with false information. It embarrassed itself by entering a futile public relations battle, which it might have been better off never starting. They want to maintain the ineffective, illegal and unethical siege on Gaza and not let the ‘peace flotilla’ dock off the Gaza coast? There is nothing to explain, certainly not to a world that will never buy the web of explanations, lies and tactics” (Levy, 30 May 2010).
The Israeli government is lying and, from Lebanon to the Gaza Strip, this has been proven time and time again. Tel Aviv deliberately invoked Al-Qaeda, the horrors of Auschwitz, and the tragic attacks of September 11, 2001 to demonize the Gaza Freedom Flotilla, but in so doing it has revealed its machinations and fabrications. If this is the behaviour of Tel Aviv when dealing with a few hundred international activists and humanitarians, one can only imagine the treatment millions of Palestinians face under Israeli occupation.
Israel is the aggressor. It was the party that attacked the international aid ships and their civilian passengers. The passengers that fought back did so to protect themselves. Also, Israeli servicemen systematically attacked journalists and confiscated all recording devices to prevent the people onboard the ships from exposing Israeli aggression against unarmed civilians in international waters.
The Israeli-Palestinian Conflict is at a crossroad. What happened to the Mavi Maramara and the rest of the Gaza Freedom Flotilla in the international waters of the Mediterranean Sea is akin to the 1976 Soweto Riots that ended Apartheid in South Africa. A historic and very real opportunity is before us. The Gaza Strip and the Palestinians need urgent humanitarian aid. Not only do the Palestinians need to be saved from the brutal Israeli occupation, but the Israelis need to be saved from themselves too and the madness that is strangling their society. It is also from the example of the Palestinian people that the seeds of democracy will spread in the Middle East and in Arab countries.
Ordinary citizens across the globe will have to lead the way. Governments can not be depended on. It is time for the “Second Superpower,” which is the power of the people, to bring much needed change.
Bluementhal, Max. June 3, 2010. “Under Scrutiny, IDF Retracts Claims about Flotilla’s Al Qaeda Links.” Accessed June 4, 2010:
Connolly, Kate. June 3, 2010. “Henning Mankell on Gaza flotilla attack: ‘I think they went out to murder.’” The Guardian. Accessed June 5, 2010:
Guarnieri, Mya. June 6, 2010. “‘Israel accused of fabricating flotilla video.” Ma’an News Agency. Accessed June 6, 2010:
Israeli Defense Forces (IDF), June 5, 2010. “Clarification/ Correction Regarding Audio Transmission Between Israeli Navy and Flotilla on 31 May 2010, Posted on 5 June 2010.” Accessed June 5, 2010:
Levy, Gideon. May 30, 2010. “Gaza flotilla drives Israel into a sea of stupidity.” Haaretz. Accessed June 5, 2010:
June 10th, 2010 6:18 pm ET
Proud Zionist the autopsy reports were printed in European and Asian news papers? Smith in Oregon is correct, the aid workers were shot from ranges between 2cm and 45cm. All shot in the back of the head.
This was an Execution.
To claim Israel did not execute these poor aid workers would be similar to claiming the Jews left their own gas cookers on in world war two and all deaths were a tragic accidents.
But now I know the proud Zionist is an American, because the news concerning the autopsies and close range shots to the back of each head has been blacked out by Americas Jewish owned media.
June 11th, 2010 8:30 am ET
If you are planning to stand for PM of Turkey, good luck!
The quickest way to political success in the ME is to Jew-bash and invent anti-Israel narritives, not to mention forcing of autocratic demands and partnerships. You should do quite well!
Oregon will seem like paradise.
June 12th, 2010 3:40 am ET
** Not ATATURK legacy **
Who are Erdogan political partners?
1: Endogen considers Hamas a sister party
Hamas agenda is Islam rules the world and kill Jews
Details in Hamas chart: http://www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm
** * Hamas charter is every think opposed by ATATURK
2: Erdugan government shelters IHH which is part of the global Jihad network
According to Danish and French intelligence reports:
IHH helped AL QAIDA attack on LA airport, send manpower, arms and money to areas engaged by Islamist
Detailed in the following link:
***** Was ATATURK dream for Turkey to integrate into global Islamism?
3:Erdugan is binding Turkey to the Iran Islamist theocratic regime
The Iranian theocratic rulers desire to replace the western civilization- including the end of democracy and western life style.
3 decades ago, the slogans on Iran streets calling "death to the USA satin", where considered gimmicks by the west.
**** Erdugan policy -NOT ATTATURK DREAM****
June 13th, 2010 5:31 pm ET
Tommy, aka Mahdi Darius Nazemroaya,
Do you have no better source of information than a cut and paste piece of false propaganda from a notoriously anti-Israeli web site?
The article is full of myths that have been disproven.
eg, the captain and other passengers on the Mavi Marmara have recounted how the bridge and control of the boat was taken over by the Turkish group. tied to the terrorist supporting IHH, who had a premeditated plan to attack, recording matyrdom videos in advance.
The majority of passengers on the boat were naive "peace activists", on their way to violate international law, but not planning active resistance, just like the passengers on the other boats.
The clarification by the IDF of the radio exchange explained that the words did come from the flotilla but it was unclear from which boat.
Anyone quoting Gideon Levy and not understanding his position and reputation in Israeli media is simply ignorant.
June 15th, 2010 5:20 pm ET
As a Jew whose relatives died in the siege of Leningrad, I find your conduct embarrassing and distressing. Nobody expects Israel to capitulate its statehood, but its conduct of late is a rejection of the shared human values that Israel claims give it the right to exist. The gaza block aid is an example of collective punishment-a clearly immoral act of war. It is a political, strategic and ethical disaster. The continued settlement building violates the treaties Israel has signed, and are calculated to continue to foment the crisis. Extra-judicial assassinations are an abomination-punishment with out justice and often causing huge collateral damage. How can a group of people so maligned by how they have been dehumanized propagate the same behavior?
Miriam your failure to critically examine the situation, and your persistent attempts at white washing the behavior of Israel and the inhumane treatment (of, admittedly, an enemy) reminds me of the attempts to write the Holocaust out of WWII.
It is shameful.
June 15th, 2010 5:29 pm ET
I've said this in other places, and I'll repeat it here: I think Judaism is a silly religion with overly complex rules and incomprehensible rituals, but I also think that about Christianity, Islam, Sikhism, Zoroastrianism and a few others. I find Israel's actions in this incident (and the subsequent attack on protesters at the West Bank, including Emily Henochowicz) deplorable and inhuman. That opinionis entirely political and has nothing to do with the religious beliefs or the ethnic affiliations of the people involved. You can call me anti-Semitic if it makes you feel better, but that doesn't make it so.
June 15th, 2010 9:46 pm ET
israel is not a state,israel is a criminal organization founded in the absence of law enforcers.
it does not need to answer to any one.
if you let a rapist go with no punishment for his crime and look the other way,the rapist will rape again and again and again and will never stop , so their you have it .israel is the rapist.
now , punishing the rapist in this case will be the responsiblity of the victim of the rape.in this case its the people of palestine.
now the rest of the globe have the chance to help the people of palestine rid the world of this rapist by helping them as much as they can or we can all wait and watch untill the victims gain the upper hand one day and let them deal with it.
June 15th, 2010 9:47 pm ET
The Israelis are a disgrace. We should extricate ouselves from relations with them. They treat gaza like a concentration camp. That, plus the fact that they seem to run our media government and military.
June 17th, 2010 6:07 pm ET
Again, haganah atzmit.
Unfortunately, those who poison the minds of the international community are indeed intent on the delegitimization of the Jewish state precisely because it is Jewish.
There is no collective punishment by Israel. Actions taken are not criminal-type penalties, the definition under international law, and retorsion is absolutely legal in this instance.
Indiscriminate attacks on Israeli civilians by Hamas are a clear violation of the international humanitarian laws of distinction and self-defence is justified and an obligation under international law, including unintended collateral damage.
Settlements do not violate any agreement with the Palestinians, with their future to be part of a final status agreement. Negotiations continued for almost 20 years without any conditions made about settlements. Nevertheless, no new settlements have been built in over a decade.
Palestinian violations of agreements are the main reason that previous agreements may be rumoured to be irrelevent.
June 17th, 2010 6:10 pm ET
And anarchy is preferable!!!!!
But don't adopt any tradition or habit. After all it will become ritual.
June 17th, 2010 6:13 pm ET
aka baseless accusations followed by genocide and anihilation.
Been there, done that.
June 18th, 2010 4:43 pm ET
Smuggled video shows Israeli snipers aiming, firing at Gaza Flotilla activists
Smith in Oregon
June 23rd, 2010 3:19 am ET
When allies and friends treat you like dirt, you brush off the dust and continue forward without them.
Previously Turkey was the closest ally to Israel in the Middle East that Israel could have. Joint military exercises, open borders and open travel while other country's across the Middle East shun Israel and it's people.
It entirely appears that Israel has treated the NATO Turkish flagged cargo ship in International Waters which is in effect 'Turkey itself' as dirt, and it's passengers as criminals worthy of execution. Turkey is brushing itself off and continuing on without Israel.
I'm certain Israel will greatly regret it's crass and callous action upon it's once allie and friend in the Middle East. Turkey holds a great many cards in the Middle Eastern region and should begin using them as they go forward, regardless of how much that will cost Israel in the future.
America is also paying a price for treating many of the South American country's like dirt. With the sole exception of Peru and Colombia, they have brushed off the dust and dirt, payed off their IMF (International Monetary Funds) showed the IMF the door, and have continued on with their own resources and prosperity entirely without America.
I'm certain America will regret the grievous actions the CIA did to the people all along South America in the future.
Smith in Oregon
June 28th, 2010 8:41 am ET
Congratulations on Turkey's decision to close ALL Turkish Airspace to Israel. Turkey would do well to purchase several Russian made S-300 anti-aircraft missile batterys for protecting it's country in case Israel decides to retaliate against a NATO country again.
Attacking a NATO flagged ship in International Waters is in International Law and NATO treaty's the same thing as an attack upon the very country of that ship's flag, namely Turkey which is a NATO member. The NATO treaty calls upon all other NATO countrys to hold Israel fully accountable for its attack upon a NATO member.
Turkey should now warn America that any further killings of Turkish civilians by Israel and Turkey will close it's airspace to America and it's borders to the US Military convoys carrying war supplys to Iraq and Afghanistan.
Kyrgyzstan should follow with closing it's airbase to America's refueling tanker fleet used to refuel fighter jets over Afghanistan.
June 28th, 2010 2:37 pm ET
Smith in Oregon, I agree with you and lets see how things work out.
One thing is for sure, the dishonest pack of lies propagated by the US and Israel has no credibility in the world. The Brazilians, Indians and Turks do what they want and have no time for Americas pro Israeli, pro murder stance. Even the German president now tell Obama to take a hike in economic matters.
Americas blind alliance with the murderous state of Israel is the grease under Americas rapid global decline.
July 3rd, 2010 5:00 pm ET
attacking a NATO flagged ship?now sails under a NATO flag? the Shahids on the Marmara said nothing about NATO in their good-bye videos that they recorded before they set sail!!
July 3rd, 2010 5:02 pm ET
Global theatre presents: " Hypocrites" in 3 acts
Act 1: THE FROZING SILENS
The global actors- Goverments, UN, NGO's are silent.
All are busy verifying their petrol backlog
On a corner a small news board displays:
** People killed by Islamists worldwide: 742 in May 2010: 556 in Jul 2010
The Islamic terrorists hid in civilian areas, dressed as civilians, sometimes wearing burka
Places, numbers, killing methods in: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index.html#Attacks
** Muslims Kyrgyz and Uzbeks are killing each other-over 2000 civilians and 800.000 fled
The global actors- Governments, UN, NGO's some are cheering "Victory" some are silent
The news board displays:
Victory!!! A terrorist was killed together with his wife, 3 daughters, a grandchild and other men, women and children by a long range missile
The action was 10.000 miles away from the countries shores treated by the terrorist
The terror group agenda is to impose Islam worldwide
Act 3: THE CHILLING HYPOCRACY
The global actors- Governments, UN, NGO's are paying for petrol supply with a small coin named Israel
All are shouting:
"Israel- open the arms supply channel to Hamas"
Children dressed with suicide bombing jackets lead by their teachers are marching holding Hamas charter slogans:
1: Peace &quiet would not be possible except under Islam
2: The Day of Judgment will not come until Moslems kill the Jews
3: Sharia goes for any land the Moslems have conquered by force till the Day of Judgment
Hamas charter link : http://www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm
Chamberlin (masked as Obama) holding Czechoslovakia and Israel maps – cheered by EU, Russia leaders says;
"I am bringing peace to mankind once again as before WW2"
In a corner Ataturk cries: Erduan Islamism was not by dream for Turkey
A Lilliput with an Israeli flag faces the bashing chorus holding a board:
I will defend my existence
July 5th, 2010 1:37 pm ET
Sorry but your link must be wrong.
It does not show any Israeli sniper, nor any firing by Israeli soldiers.
I did see supposed humanitarian activists firing sling shots with metal balls that are potentially as lethal as bullets, some red paint or stage blood which fits with the style of performance presented in the video and I heard the characteristic call of Islamic terrorists before they are about to attack.
July 5th, 2010 1:54 pm ET
"Turkey is brushing itself off and continuing on without Israel".
Turkey seems to be continuing to demand an apology, a joke since they sent a bunch of terrorists off to challenge and attack Israel's legal blockade on a terrorist-run entity.
You obviously haven't heard the complaints and criticism directed at the Turkish government from all the businessmen, big and small, who are suffering from the current state of affairs.
Not surprising when the Turkish government suppresses such expresssion and denies the freedom to report such realities.
Turkey has not closed all airspace to Israel and knows that in so doing it would be at the receiving end of the wrath of the EU air-traffic authority.
Only Turkey has to worried about NATO now.
July 5th, 2010 4:38 pm ET
The EU feels the same as Turkey! Israel is not endearing itself with the US either with its roque activities. The present right wing administration in Israel believe that they can get away with it because of the huge influence of their lobbys in Washington. It would not be in the interest of the US to destroying Nato over Israel. It will be very costly for the Zionists state.
July 6th, 2010 8:22 pm ET
Why would the US destroy NATO?
There are 28 members who could together come to the decision that Turkey is bringing NATO to its end.
The current Israeli government includes the only significant left-wing party and any pro-Israel lobbies in Washington reflect the opinions of Congress and the Senate and the majority of the American population.
If you want to question the power of lobbies in Washington, their are other groups that have far greater and disproportionate influences.