COME ON, GUYS–HAMAS AND ISRAEL! DIPLOMACY IS THE ONLY ALTERNATIVE:

Commentary from human rights lawyer, Arsalan Iftikhar:

“Let it be shouted from the rooftops of the world:

There is no military solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Regardless of perpetual finger-pointing and one-sided condemnations from both sides, hundreds of millions worldwide condemn both sides of the current siege.

France’s Foreign Ministry recently captured this humanistic global zeitgeist when it issued a joint condemnation of both sides: “France condemns the Israeli ground offensive against Gaza as it condemns the continuation of rocket firing [by Hamas].”

Simply put, an Israeli life is equal to a Palestinian life (and vice versa). Politics be damned; basic human decency dictates that both sides of this conflict must be condemned for their respective human rights violations.

All wars are crimes, in my view. With two wrongs never making a right, if this nonsensical murderous tit-for-tat continues unchallenged, it will be both Palestinian and Israeli children who will continue to pay the ultimate price for the criminal acts of their elected leaderships.

Until this cyclical dilemma of civilian murder on both sides ends, we will be left haunted with these visionary words of Mahatma Gandhi:

“An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.”"

Good evening AJ,

“An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.””
Mahatma Gandhi

I like this very much.

Do you think that we might finally see a cease fire?

Hi Lynne, Good Evening!!

I love it, too. Theis human rights lawyer really wrote a great article.

Glad Nona–or was it Linda?–pointed it out.

Lynne,

If we see a cease fire it will be temporary... unfortunatly.

Good evening to both of you.

I know this lawyer... very good man.

Any peace accord would be welcomed. The slaughter of innocents on both sides is appalling. But keep in mind, these people have been fighting each other since biblical days. And so it goes for the whole region.

Professor,
Goodness, I any cease-fire will be more than temporary.

AJ,
Interesting post on the Franco-Egyptian discussion. Since I'm here...

There was a discussion (forget which one) earlier this morning regarding Israeli expansionism. It's a thought that all the incursions, fights, walls, settlements are not over Hamas or terrorism, but over the desire to expand territory to accomodate a growing population. Israel welcomes all Jews from all over the world without limits on immigration.

What say you?

txkboy,

I agree with you on the first part.... but its not true that these people have been fighting each other since biblical days. This is less than 100 years conflict.

Here is part of another article I saw today:

ANOTHER ISRAELI PERSPECTIVE ON GAZA 1/7/09 FROM AN HISTORICAL POINT OF VIEW:

UK Guardian Article by Oxford professor of international relations Avi Shlaim, Israeli. Shlaim served in the Israeli army and has never questioned the state’s legitimacy. But its merciless assault on Gaza
has led him to evastating conclusions. READ ON:

“The only way to make sense of Israel’s senseless war in
> Gaza is through understanding the historical context…

> I write as someone who served loyally in the Israeli army
> in the mid-1960s and who has never questioned the legitimacy
> of the state of Israel within its pre-1967 borders.

>What I utterly reject is the Zionist colonial project beyond the
> Green Line. The Israeli occupation of the West Bank and the
> Gaza Strip in the aftermath of the June 1967 war had very
> little to do with security and everything to do with
> territorial expansionism. The aim was to establish Greater
> Israel through permanent political, economic and military
> control over the Palestinian territories. And the result has
> been one of the most prolonged and brutal military
> occupations of modern times.
>
> Four decades of Israeli control did incalculable damage to
> the economy of the Gaza Strip. With a large population of
> 1948 refugees crammed into a tiny strip of land, with no
> infrastructure or natural resources, Gaza’s prospects
> were never bright. Gaza, however, is not simply a case of
> economic under-development but a uniquely cruel case of
> deliberate de-development.

>To use the Biblical phrase, Israel turned the people of Gaza into the hewers of wood and the drawers of water, into a source of cheap labour and a captive market for Israeli goods.

The development of local industry was actively impeded so as to make it impossible for the Palestinians to end their subordination to Israel and to establish the economic underpinnings essential for
> real political independence….”

FOR COMPLETE STORY, GO TO:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/07/gaza-israel-palestine

IT IS A HUMAN RIGHTS ISSUE. MILLITARY FORCE WILL NOT WORK IN THE BIG PICTURE!!

Hi Professor! I agree re conflict, the intensity of it is little over 60 years old.

Lynne the settlements are a terrible problem re expansionism. Article above, in its entirety addresses this.

Check it out.

American Jew,

Just watch the idiots on this blog will call him a self hating Jew as soon as they read your comment.

Or a fake Jew...yup, it has happened.

If us Jews don't support Israel right or wrong, as one woman put it, we should be 'ex-communicated"

:)

Me and millions of others.

For every one of me there are, no doubt, thousands more, and increasing every day..on all fronts...

Sure thing... They do that every time. :)

As if Israeli government is God chosen and it does not make any mistake.

It was certainly amazingly calm last night...I was so surprised...wonder if it can happen again tonight?

AJ,

That is one of the problems and a reason why I read the entire discussion before deciding to enter the debate. I am totally avoiding "Israeli Strikes Resume" right now ...

We all had a pretty good one going last night, though 8)

Yes, I did read your article when it first appeared in another blog. But it didn't address what might be happening now. I can't remember where I read it, but immigration to Israel was signficantly down in 2007 through the middle of this year. Do you think that we might see less or more settlement in an attempt to entice more Jewish people to immigrate? There was something I recall from about 2 years ago that there was some concern over changing demographics.

Do they really think that people are so naive... they will believe their lies?... Israeli soldiers are perfect they do not make mistakes... Israeli government does not make mistakes... They have perfect human rights records and everyone else including the UN officials are bunch of liars?

Professor,

I've learned that people know the truth as they perceive it ... which may or may/not have any basis in reality.

I agree... but what i am wondering why people like those guys like to fabricate stories to defend their government that much?

I am proud that I can stand up and speak against my government when it does something wrong. There is not reason to hide it and lie about it. So, I do not understand the mentality of those narrow minded guys.

It seems people don't hear if they don't want to hear.

So many times people put out info and people keep asking for info already printed or else just dismiss anyone they don't agree with as stupid or...fill in the blank, oh yeah, or fake Jew, or terrorist etcc

It's scary, but they seem brainwashed to me.

But I know they think I am the brainwashed one.

Lynn, the settlement problems is out of control...very bad!!

American Jew,

Oh yeah this terrorist accusation that they throw at everyone who is critical of what Israel is doing, or support the Palestinian is sickining.

Professor,

We have our "patriotic" gang here in the US, too, that believe that our government can do no wrong. However, our government does not go around "silencing" dissent - some years ago I remember B'Tselem (sp?) being shut down by the Israeli politicos. However, the US gov't (with the expanded powers of 911) does eavesdrop and occassionally "round up terrorists".

AJ, I agree with you people don't hear if they don't want to hear. Or at least don't hear what they don't want to hear. If you listened to everything, you may begin to question, which in turn may challenge some of the personal beliefs and values you hold most dear. It's a fear of change ... many people are extremely uncomfortable and will fight back when the status quo is shaken up.

The Settlers are all armed (those who are within the age limit) And they use their weapons to terrorize Palestinian farmers.

And the US does not want the Palestinians to arm themselves. So, they are supposed to be sitting ducks waiting for the settlers to shoot at them as they please without any protection.

Yes, Lynne I know I follow the repors of all the human right organizations in the US and some abroad.

I hope that Hamas shows up to the meeting in Cairo...because, the continuing problems in the Middle East is becoming intolerable...

Professor,

I find it curious that a couple weeks ago when some settlers attacked some Palestinian farmers, it hardly made the news, even on the internet. I believe that The Guardian carried more about it ... but when you hear of a Palestinian or Arab attacking a Jewish Israeli, you will hear about it for weeks on all the mainstream media.

Like it's NBD that Palestinian farmers are attacked! Bless B'Tselem for handing out the cameras. Hopefully this will serve as a deterrent on both sides, and there will be less attacks on anyone.

For some reason, I think that youtube can be the most powerful weapon ever designed.

I posted last night regarding Israeli gov't forbidding protests after huge rally in Tel Aviv Saturday, as well as Haifa and Jerusalem.

They cannot totally shut down dissent, tho.

Israel is losing the PR war, which is why I think we hear Bush singing a different tune today. And the Egypt-France truce...

American Jew, i appreciate your wise and humantarian views......i am a jordanian but the onging massacres force us to loose our believe in making peace ....god bless you ...

Back at you Mahmoud...sukran!

So much anger out there...very, VERY difficult to stay grounded

If ever a peae can be reached, there is sooo much rage to heal...

AJ,

We hear Bush singing a slightly different tune after he met with Obama. Do you think that it is all the world-wide protests, or something Obama said? I would bet on the latter, since GWB has been adamantly close minded for weeks, if not years ...

I heard somewhere that Obama has finally spoken out concerning Gaza, but have not been able to find it on the internet or heard on the nightly news when I got home. Do you know if this is true?

My wonderful and wise sister recommended a book by Stephen (?) Kinzer 'A thousand Hills,' on the follow up healing taking place in Rwanda after their terrible genocidal war.

I will read this in hopes I can be part of same thing when Israel/
Palestine peace begins,...hopefully in my lifetime!!

There'll be a lot of hate to clean up there!!

Yes,

AJ,

Sounds like an interesting book ... I've written down the title.

I agree, there is a lot of hate. But I think folks like yourself and my friend Nahida will lead the way to recovery.

Yesterday, Obama said he is closely monitoring the situation, Is very concerned about the killings of Gazan and Israelis (he said Gazans first..a hopeful sign of what is to come, I hope?) and he will deal with after 1/20...
There's only 1 prez at a time...
yadayada...

You, too, Lynne and Professor, and Mahmoud, and...

I am hopeful that Obama has read the history of the region starting with Alexander and going forward. Maybe be we will get a more balanced policy, not to mention a peace initiative that will go forward an not be related to the realm of rhetoric.

Does anyone believe that Hamas will really accept peace?

From your mouth to God's ears, Lynne!

Does anyone really believe Israel will allow peace?

Here they come...!

They sold they ass for small amount of money:) You should watch some of or movies,like Balkan spy for example :)

Bill,

Only time will tell. But it took a long time for the IRA to accept the Brits (Protestants) in Northern Ireland and evolve into what it is today. I guess they finally figured out that they wouldn't be taken seriously until they quit killing civilians.

One can only hope ...

AJ,

I'm really hoping that both sides will allow peace, but right now I fear that neither side is willing to make the sacrifices (and concessions) to attain it. There's too many extremists on both sides, and then you have the Bible-thumping factor ...

Hi everyone, and we should hope that this slaughter and bloodshed will rest for a while so that reasonables can do something..

Hi Turk,

Glad you joined us ...

Amen to that, brother.

What, who, Goran? Clarification, please?

Hi Turk!

Yeah, too many extremits on both sides, agreed!

Lynne, I am always with the ones after peace... that is why I spent my time here.

Lynne,

Let's hope both Hamas and Israel have had enough innocent deaths and they will do what needs to be done eventually. The reports I have heard from Hamas are not too encouraging, though. They say they will regard any international peacekeeping force as an enemy force.

It has been more peaceful here these days.

Hamas agreed to accept Turkish Troops as Peace Keepers.. quoted on Turkish news recently..

Turks are with Jews...are with Arabs.. with Palestine people.. with Afganis.. with Bosnians and Serbs.. with Lebanon..
( there are all peace keeping forces of turkish army on those places )

see Lynne, Turks are after peace ( and Peace Breakers ) only...

Bill,

Awww crud! Where'd you read that? And I thought they said they were chunking missiles because the borders weren't open. What's the major malfunction and what's the carrot? It takes two to tango, and the dance can't start unless they show up tomorrow. GWB the second 8)

Really, Bill?!

Politics is so ugly!

Turk,

Never did think differently, and the Turks and Egyptians together with maybe the Jordanians thrown in may be able to stop all this.

I am sure the Israeli part will not stop bombing at this very moment.. they will not give peace a chance..since they are not after peace..

No one answers to me? snurf, snurf, I am feeling so small and insignificant:(

Lynne and AJ,

It was in this article, last paragraph:

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1231167305045&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

Goran, See above

Turk,

What are the Israelis after, if not peace? Their stated intention was to bring about the stop of rocket attacks on their territory.

Goran,

I wasn't sure what you were talking about. I was hoping that you were going to jump in the conversation.

welcome, Goran!

Some of you asked about Obama.He did have lunch with Bush,Bush, Carter, and Clinton and they did admit to taling about the Gaza Crisis. Of course nobody knows what they said, but maybe a change in attitude is an indication

Bill,

Thanks for the link. Interesting, but for the life of me I can't figure these folks (Hamas) out. It seems like the group on the whole is slightly schizophrenic - there's part of it like Yussef and Haniyeh saying one thing and another group saying the complete opposite. Hmm ... wonder if there is an opportunity here besides firepower?

I don't think that I would be in favor of Israeli control of the Rafah crossing, either. This basically gives Israel total control of all Gaza borders, and we've seen how that can go in the past. This should be a joint Egyptian/other independent control (hehheh – Turks maybe?)

What I see also lacking is a mechanism where both sides can bring grievances of violations/aggressions to be addressed. If something is not put into place (with teeth to enforce, I might add), we're going to have more killing down the road.

Thanks Joan. I knew of the "presidents' lunch" today.

Been hearing all sorts of things, but haven't been able to find any mention anywhere.

Now I know ... it's all rumor 8)

Lynne,

I think both Israel and Hamas have the same concern, how to address perceived violations of any truce. Israel would probably want to close the borders again and Hamas would take the more violent approach of sending rockets and mortars against Israeli civilians. Then boom, we're back where we started.

Hi Joan, nice to see you back.

Bill, I'm going to now read what you sent.

Well, I am seeing more and more positive attitudes in these blogs. maybe there is hope.

Bill,

We don't want to go back to where we started, that why I think that is one very important issue that must be addressed. And it must work in an unbiased manner ... maybe someone neutral for dispute resolution ... Switzerland, Findland, Greenland, Norway, Sweden to name a few? None of the quartet, for sure.

Joan,

Missed you yesterday .... things were pretty sane. Sorta feel like a puppy, following AJ, Professor, et. al. around these boards. And some new friends tonight ...

Voices of reason amid a sea of chaos, to coin a phrase I've always liked from a Clancy novel.

Lynne,

Say we get a neutral arbitrator. Then there is a violation, a clear violation by either party. What kind of sanctions would be appropriate? What kind of sanctions have enough teeth to scare either or both parties?

Hi everyone, Glad to see all of you.

I am sitting here with my heart breaking. I am watching some of the protestors, and they are getting nasty. Things will never change if this type of language and attitudes are going to continue.

Hamas does indeed seem skizo.
My understanding is it is nade up of 2 parts:

1. the legitimate elected security force
2. The militant wing

Israel has been going after Hamas as if the wole bunch is one blanket terrorist force.

Maybe they seem 'bi-polar' because of this dualfacot?

Hi everybody!

I hope the entire region can get some peace!

Is anybody around here optimistic? If so, please spread your optimism! I would feel a lot more comfortable if Hamas's charter didn't state:

“The so-called peaceful solutions are all contrary to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement. There is no solution to the Palestinian problem except by jihad.”

Did anyone else see the BBC's reporters report from inside Gaza today?

I am being optimistic, Nona.
I hope that both sides will be pressured so much, that it will force them to change their behavior.

Did not see BBC–catch me up, Nona.

Hamas Charter very disturbing, Nona. I do not think Palestinian people want that. Hamas had gone down in popularity before this latest incursion.

Linda BBC–sorry!

I goota eat some dinner here :)

I'm getting confused and confusing!

Back soon

The BBC reporter is embedded with Israeli forces. They were in the streets of Gaza. Of course they believe that they need to do this to stop the rockets from Hamas, but they were sad to see families that were out of water and food, etc. Some of the Israeli soldiers were in a house with a Palestinian family, and one soldier was praying. I was touched by the family and the soldiers.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1000068.html

Bill,

I'll really have to study/think on that one. We need to find the carrot to find the "bite" ....

Oh yea, and they were talking about a school that they found ammo and rockets in, I was wired to explode.

Hi Linda,

Good to see ya! Sanity is prevailing ...

Let me catch up on the posts. My other half called from HI, so I was "gone" for a while.

Hi CS and Nona!

Hi Lynne,
I'm glad that the dialogue is staying so peaceful. Maybe it will spread around the world!

HI EVERYONE!!! GONE AFTER LONG HOURS OF WORK...WHEW!!

Turk,

I liked your solution of a joint state in the other blog. Why do you think Israel does not want peace? What about Hamas. Do you think they will go to the talks?

Hi Brandon, Nice to see you tonight!

DIPLOMATIC SOLUTIONS IS NEVER APPLICABLE TO TERRORIST ORGANIZATION...HISTORY WILL REPEAT ITSELF...ONLY AGGRESIVE NEGOTIATIONS WILL TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION...ENOUGH OF THE HAMAS TERRORISTS REGIME IN GAZA!!...

CS,

Interesting link. I've always liked reading Haaretz - appeals to the "reasonable" side since even op ed points are so well presented.

Yes, I think that I would agree that splinter groups are responsible for undermining the cease fire agreement. I don't know why the main group can't control them, but maybe they aren't sure who the "thugs" (loosely used) are.

While I deplore the methods Israel is using to stop the rockets (heck, some of the things the US has done since 2001 haven't made a bit of sense to me from a strategic standpoint), I think that the internal Palestinian issues must be resolved first. In the mean time, there's no harm in keeping the talk-lines open.

While no one wants to give people who indiscriminately kill legitimacy, I think that you have to talk (even to "terrorist" groups) at a minimum to figure out what it is they are after and what lengths they will take to get it. Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer, or at least close enough to figure out your enemy's "game" completely and not assume. Only then can you figure out an effective strategy that will both obtain your objectives and keep civilians from being caught in the cross-fire.

Hi Bradon,

Can you do me a favor and turn off the caps? It's distracting when I am trying to read your posts.

Thanks, buddy.

HI LINDS!!!

A LOT OF ASTONISHING DEVELOPMENT HUH... LETS HOPE THEY WOULD COME UP WITH THE ...REAL...SOLUTIONS TO END THIS WAR... WITHOUT HAMAS...

Thanks Brandon. And glad you're here.

Umm, did you read the link CS posted? An op ed written in August. It was pretty interesting and dead on ....

Think I'm going to stick here for a while ... the other blogs were getting a little combative for my pacifist sensibilities 8)

You and me both, Lynne.

This evening format works better for me.

No name-calling bombs being slung back and forth and productive, educational dialogue is actually taking place...on all sides of the issue, I think.

It might be too calm and boring for the others, tho. :)

I am glad we can all have calm and respectful discussions on this blog. Even if we do not always agree. We need to spread the love around the world:)

Linda,

I'll second that.

AJ,

Have a good dinner? It's always easier to think on a full stomach, but there's too many that are hungry right now around the world.

everyone turn to FOX that has it, they are going to show the protestors in Florida again. How can we change this?

Good evening guys, I like the positive atmosphere here. keep it up and I ask you all to keep focusing on the issues, and ignore those who support war, killings and genocide.

Hi Rod, Glad to have you!

I missed the protesters... what was going on?

They're talking about references to Nazi Germany and the destruction of the Jewish people ...

If so, they aren't helping anyone ....

ok guys so what is the big question this evening? or what is the big hope?
when I came online I felt I am coming to see my friends.

Hi Rod! What are your thoughts?

The protesters were yelling, "go back to the ovens" and there were children about 3-6 years old holding terrible signs.
In America, I don't think we should be so horrible. This is not what America is about. These type of things should be stopped in my opinion. This is inciting violence.

Rod,

Missed the part where Linda told us to tune to Fox. Something about protesters in FL.

Came in at the end ...

Did you catch it?

Linda,

Oh, so right. This is the same thing in my opinion as the 15 year old girl in France that was attacked today just because she was Jewish.

Things are getting out of hand and making peace almost impossible ... and you can't blame this one on the Palestinians or Israelis ...

Wonder if the "hate crime" laws can be used to stop this?

hhmmm....ive read though, but peace works in both ways...

My thoughts that there will be a truce. it will take time though.
they will negotiate it will take few days if not more than one week. I put it at 10 days before the effective implementation of ceasfire . Only a speculation though.

I think both Israel and Hamas knew what they are going into. and they knew that no one will exterminate the other.

this operation has its own objectives for both.
Hamas: claiming victory for survival
Kadima : Better chances to win the elections in February.

I would love to know Lynne, because your are so right, you can't blame this one on them. The protesters made the decision to yell that, and do that on their own.

I think you are correct, Rod. There are so many factors here, that just saying we will stop, will not solve the problems. I also agree with with assesment of Kadima. A report came out a few months ago that if Obama won our election, Israel would go after Hamas for the rockets before Jan. 20th, if McCain won, they would wait until after Jan. 20th. Now, I understand the plight of the people on both sides of the boarder, but this, in my opinion, was political on the part of Hamas AND Israel.

You are right Brandon, everyone wants to want Peace. Even the citizens of every country!

Sorry, everyone Has to Want Peace

Brandon, I'm not quite sure I follow your thought ...

Rod, I think I agree with your political assessment, since it's a conclusion I've drawn myself. Just wish those with political ambitions would consider the human cost in their desire to stay in power. But then I've heard that many people don't think or don't care of all the folks they squash in their frantic climb to top. Cretins!

Linda, these are really sick puppies! But I've never seen the hate crime used unless someone was assaulted or killed. Guess it comes under freedom of speech, but it is so hurtful. What kind of people are these? People that have no heart? I sure know that I wouln't want to be associated with such posterior sides ...

Israel, purity of arms, all I see is purity of hell. They claim they are fighting a war against terror, I believe they are angering the rest of the cells all over the world, doesn't the rest of the world see this, Im not a straight "A" student, but all I see is cowardness on the part of all governments, held hostage by the almighty jewish dollar..Believe me, the terrorists are causing atrocities around the world, but is 20 Israelis killed over the past 10 years around Gaza worth the thousands that have been massacred since the invasion on Lebanon in 1982, and 600 dead in this past week to add on to there judgement. I believe that God is disappointed in this country and anyone who stands by this atrocity. Terrorists have caused atrocities around the world and everyone knows they are massacres in itself, but they are retaliating with the only weapon they have against Israel and anyone who is held hostage to there dollars and support around the world..They dont have WMD's, they would of already used them by now, dont you think? They have been oppressed people for many years in a pressure cooker that have caused them to explode anywhere they get the chance..Unfortunately, I do not think the terrorist groups are going about there message in the right way either, but I do see the milliions of people they are backing and governments just dont listen to there poor and oppressed and sometimes cause people to take matters in there own hands and do the worst to get the attention of the whole world..Hamas are doing what they are doing to get the attention of the whole world..They are saying, " Hey we are here starving to death and our people are dying and not by only Israeli heavy firepower but by there blockade of food and supplies, our hospitals are not even equipped, its like living in ancient times while across the way is the best technologies money can buy, but yet they want to occupy us and give us nothing so we can slowly but surely die"

Brandon, you are correct, it has to be both sides, definitely BOTH sides.

And violence will not let that happen if both sides keep this up.

Anger and rage gets inexcusable.

The Elders of Zion myth keeps being resurrected

Joe the Plumber is back!

He's going to Israel to be an 'objective' reporter for the Israelis. Go Joe!

Hi Rod,
Good to see you.

Good assessment–politics has played a big role in all this, I think.

I am so glad that Joe the Plumber is telling us what to think! I guess he needs to get us out of the economic recession.

AJ,

Are you kiddin'? Joe the Plumber? Maybe we'll get some unbiased "call it as I see it" reports.

Where'd everyone go?

I'm here Lynne,I though eveyone left, and then several responses popped up at once, what is happening?

Thank you American Jew,
By the way I watched the demonstrations in Ft Lauderdale. I saw what was happening on the pro palestinian side. well yes what they said was appalling. I did not see what happened on the Pro Israeli side though.

Anyway what i heard there about the Jews is not different from what I have seen and heard about killing and nuking muslims. ( you must have seen these calls on this blog too)

Remember Rep. Tom Tancredo when he said "Nuke Mecca"
I was searching the story and found that you can even Buy a Bumper Sticker " NUKE MECCA". Did not know that is even made!

Anyway the morale of the story we need intelligent people like many of you here to educate others and end Extremism on both sides.
Hope Peace Prevails

Not much going on right now. Must be some conversation elsewhere than CNN, 'cause the other blogs are pretty quiet right now, too. Guess folks wanted more combat ... although I think we're seeing enough of that. It's not the BBC - their boards are not 24/7. They shut 'em down before 9 pm our time.

Interesting reading though. A lot of "extremists" hang out there - some of 'em since 1998 or so are frequent fliers ...

Lynne I am here do not worry I came with an idea and I will need you ALL to vote on it
ti comes from this article
http://www.avnery-news.co.il/english/index.html

with my own modification
please read it and i think many of you will like the idea

Yes, I have been wondering where everyone is tonight.

lets wait and see for further development for the truce proposal...

were just expressing our opinions here all over the net, but the real deal depends on THE decision makers on the ground ( for both sides ) and it would change the course of this DIPLOMATIC SOLUTIONS AND THEIR WILLINGNESS of their actions in due time... INDEED, THIS IS THE CRUCIBLE FOR BOTH ISRAELIS,PALESTINIANS AND THE WHOLE WORLD...

LETS PRAY...IT WORKS...

IM BUSHED AND I NEED TO HIT THE SACK EARLY...

NIGHT GUYS...

I guess we are just not explosive enough.

Biy Rod, it sure gets ugly on both sides.

My computer is acting funny, I think the IDF is hacking me :0

Good night, Brandon. See you again.

Well, it looks to me that neither side wants to stop hostilities. Israel wants the missiles to stop, but still reserves the right to keep the blockade in place. Hamas wants the borders open.

And here we go again. Nothing productive and positive is going to happen tomorrow, I'm afraid ...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090108/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_palestinians

Good evening bloggers, looks quiet, probably a good thing, weve all been attacking each other a lot these days, guilty as charged. But we all have a voice, one that should be heard. Maby a little less oven shouts, but I have'nt heard that here. AC telling us right now if Hamas launched rockets from out of schools.

G'night Brandon. Sweet dreams.

Night Brandon,
I agree with you assessment.
Hi Nick

Hello Linda, how's it going tonight.

Hi Nick,

So did Hamas launch rockets from those UN schools?

Beats me, in such a populated area, doesn't look like there are any spaces where you can do dirty deeds and not involve the civilian non-aggressive folks.

PS

GUYS IM HAVING A HARD TIME LOGGING OFF..AND IT TOOK ME 20 MINS JUST TO POST......

EERRRR....SOMETHINGS WRONG WITH MY PC OR WITH THE CONNECTION...

GOODNIGHT EVERYONE...

GUYS....BEHAVE OKEY....

Rod.
I just read Avnery article, which I read before–worth reading again! Everyone check it out.

Things are not ever what they seem on the surface in the region. And definitely NEVER black and white.

Remember when the PA Authority were not considered 'terrorist'?

Lynne,
As i told you the objective is not met yet. It will take few days.

American Jew hope they are not if they are Hacking your computer I will give you mine do not worry.

No one asked me what my idea was buy anyway since i am excited i will give it to all of you and let me know what ya'll think

The end of the article
"MY TAXI DRIVER in Tel-Aviv the other day was thinking aloud: Why not call up the sons of the ministers and members of the Knesset, form them into a combat unit and send them off to head the coming ground attack on Gaza?"

This is the idea:

We bring the leaders of Hamas, PLO, the ministers and members of the Knesset. We give them guns and grenades and they can fight against one another.
I think this is fair and can save many lives.

What do you all think?

'Those who do not know (or remember) history, are doomed to repeat it"

Whhops! I meant

PA Authority WAS considered terrorist.

My typing is bad tonight

Hey, lynne
AC said he was going too he has'nt yet, still waiting. Dirty deed yes, but for a Hamas supporting Palestine, they elected this group as they knew it would be an aggresive state against Israel, I could see them living in conditions such as this, as to further support Hamas. Palestines Barrack Obama, there campaign slogans probably spoke of change and peace. This is me talking not yet hearing AC still.

Let them fight each other without weapons. Hand to Hand

Hey, lynne
AC said he was going too he has'nt yet, still waiting. Dirty deed yes, but for a Hamas supporting Palestine, they elected this group as they knew it would be an aggresive state against Israel, I could see them living in conditions such as this, as to further support Hamas. Palestines Barrack Obama, there campaign slogans probably spoke of change and peace. This is me talking not yet hearing AC still.

Rod,

Here's one

Send the leaders of Hamas, PLO, Knesset to the space station after evacuating the astronaut. Give everyone steak knives, but only one T-bone (or whatever meat is appropriate, lamb chop, whatever).

Seems like those who start wars never think about the loss of life ...

And AJ, your quote is correct, and entirely appropriate.

Everything can be resolved through a Hockey game, I'd pay to see that

JMO, but I think there's a peaceful answer, Rod. I'm wondering if we're missing a step in the peace process. I'm wondering if, before we expect everybody to live in peace, we should be expecting each side to forgive the other. Both sides have suffered. Both sides have reason to be angry and vengeful forever. Maybe step 1 is forgiveness, stop bickering and dragging up all the damn history, and say, I forgive the crimes you've committed against me. Today's the day to start fresh.

It's not the desire for war and mayhem that perpetuates this cycle of violence. It's the refusal to forgive wrongs of the past - whether real or perceived. I think the heroes aren't the ones who "right wrongs." They're the ones who forgive wrongs and work to prevent them from happening again.

JMO.

Just curious: did anybody here see the movie "Religulous"?

We are forgetting something here,

JMO? What's that mean?

I really want to see 'Religulous'! Have you seen it–if so, what did you think?

OK, Egypt has a hand in all of this also. Now, I do think they are the best country to try and get this situation under control, But....
Egypt is responsible for letting Hamas smuggle weapons under their boarder, while, at the same time, closing the boarder above ground to the Gazans. Isn't there a lot of Elephants in the room?

Nona,

I think that you have a major part of the answer. I might throw in after forgiveness, trust ... or at least the benefit of doubt.

It's hard to let by-gones be by-gones, but in order to move forward, you have to make that step.

No, I haven't even heard of the movie "Religulous"? Must be entertaining, because there is a distinct similarity to "ridiculous".

But there is nothing like a good game of hockey 8)

I think we are all being hacked I did not double post that message?

Hi Nick,
your assessment of the Palestinians and their living conditions and election of Hamas–I respectfully, but strongly disagree with your opinion.

I haven't had a chance to see it yet, but want to. Love Bill Maher

Something is definitely up with the internet tonight! I do agree with you there, Nick!

JMO – just my opinion! ;)

Yes, I saw Religulous. I loved it. Very thought provoking. It questions whether the world wouldn't be a saner place without religion and challenges people to account for their faith, to put a rational explanation to religious-inspired behaviors.

Also, it insults all religions equally in a tongue-in-cheek way. It's the kind of thing where people might laugh at some parts and then get really insulted when it's their religion being challenged. But there's a point to it all - it's not gratutitous insult. There's a point to it - to challenge the believers in the film but especially the audience.

me too, It is hard to post, something is going on

Yes, ditto on Bill Maher vote!

Linda the hand to hand works for me, my fear is that they will return to their positions and provoke more wars after they hit one another.

I will take Lynne's suggestion but rather than sending them to the space station itself we send them to the space and hopefully the shuttle will be lost and never found.

My sister said Religulous was actually rather serious–true?

Did anyone see my Egypt post?

Certainly the use of religion to justify violence in the M>E. has been ridiculous

AC just said the Porn Industry is asking for a bail out–bizarre night here!

AJ, fair enough, I don't think AC is ever going to tell us here, still waiting, cause if he says that there is solid facts that Hamas was launching out of schools, that would mean they were but again I'm waiting to hear what he has to say.

Guys, i like your suggestions, see this is the kind of collaboration i expected from a group like this.
Hope CNN picks one of these suggestions and aires it. I am sure many people will agree, do not think the UN will adopt it. Sorry!

Linda,

Sort of makes you wonder how extensive the Egypt border control is. Maybe the end of the tunnels are where there are no patrols? Definitely elephants in a china shop...

Egypt and elephants–yes.

Thought provoking, Rod Lynne, you both articulate well, thoughts?

Yes, AJ. It's serious but also funny - like Bill Mahar, ya know? I highly recommend it.

I did see your Egypt post, Linda. I think there is some real serious subtext to Egypt's seemingly paradoxical behavior and I can't say I'm an authority. But my gut tells me that Egypt, wants a peaceful co-existence and exchange of commerce with Israel, supports the Gazan people, but that Hamas is a big pain in the butt to Egypt's moderate government. I don't think the Egyptian leadership wants Hamas's extremist ideology to spread across the border and gain a political foothold in Egypt, but that it does want to support the Palestinian people and coexist peacefully with Israel.

Again, JMO.

Nick, I think I read somewhere today that UN said there were not shots from the school. Let me check on this...

Nona,
Then Why doesn't Egypt stop helping Hamas smuggle weapons?

On the subject of religion

I think it was Karl Marx who said "religion is the opiate of the masses". I think he got it wrong. I think that it is the stimulant that incites (some) folks to violence. For the rest, it's a guide how to respect others and live their lives.

Speaking of religion, I was laughing so hard at Wold Blitzer today. He said the the Pope did not want the United States to have a boarder fence. So Wolf asked,"Then why doesn't the Pope tear down the wall surrounding the Vatican. :)

UK GUARDIAN ARTICLE IN PART FROM YESTERDAY:

United Nations official in Gaza said the school was clearly marked with a UN flag and its location had been reported to Israeli authorities. John Ging, director of operations in Gaza for UNRWA, the United Nations Relief and Works Agency, said that three artillery shells landed at the perimeter of the school where 350 people were taking shelter. "Of course it was entirely inevitable if artillery shells landed in that area there would be a high number of casualties," he said.

Asked whether there were Hamas militants in the area at the time of the attack, Ging said it was the scene of clashes "so there's an intense military and militant activity in that area." He said UN staff vetted Palestinians seeking shelter at their facilities to make sure militants were not taking advantage of them. "So far we've not had violations by militants of our facilities," he said. Ging called for an independent investigation of the strikes near UN facilities.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/06/gaza-israel-death-un

Nona, Linda,

I think Egypt wants it two ways. Kinda like Pakistan, a delicate balancing act. Egypt doesn't want the extremism inciting Egyptians to violence and definitely wants the benefit of relations with Israel. Then again, it doesn't want to hack off the more conservative population. So I'm thinking that maybe they are turning a blind eye to a little bit of weapons smuggling.

I really don't want to see the same thing happen in Egypt that happened in Pakistan. The Bush admin put Musharaf between a rock and a hard spot after 911. This, I think, resulted in his loss of power - for all that he was military and not elected, he was pretty moderate for Pakistan. Pakistani extremists have a nasty habit of assassinating moderate folks.

I also think that not taking the branch that Iran extended following 911 was a big mistake. At least making some semblance to have unofficial communications with Iran might have been beneficial today as far as controlling the "terrorists". Now we have a jerk sitting there leading Iran (sorry, I know his name, just can't remember how to spell it!)

American Jew, Thank you

and you are right the UN said there was no rocket launched or militant in the site. I have seen the IDF video and after good analysis of the video I believe that was not an actual footage of the school.
Additionally i may ask if they were watching the militants launching rockets or mortor shells why no action was taken?
the M230 gun on an Apache can shred them into pieces with no civilian casualties.

Linda, I'm not an authority, but I think Egypt has to take some steps to appease whatever government is in control of Gaza. Obviously it's never wanted to shelter any Palestinian that claims refugee status, but Egypt also doesn't want to be perceived as anti-Palestinian, and its people expect the government to support the Palestinian cause. But the government wants to keep the Hamas extremists on the Gaza side of the border - they don't want rampant spread of Hamas ideology in Egypt that could lead to political unrest or a coup, just like Saudi Arabia may tolerate and fund al-Qaeda at arm's length but not to the point that it can incite a coup. A lot of the more moderate Arab governments have similar dilemmas, like Jordan. They're very conscious of what happened in Lebanon and how extremists took control.

I want to emphasize that I'm not an authority. This is just what I'm thinking based on my existing knowledge of Arab politics and my own gut feelings.

Linda
I think Hamas is the biggest problem, not only for Israel but for Palestine aswell. Hamas is causing these countries to not want open borders. America had a blockade on Cuba forever, as they had every right as to escape nucleur fallout, and to punish Cuba. No trade, too risky. Not to say the odd "cigar" did'nt make it in ( Hamas weapons underground through Egypt) But got the right to blockades. I feel anyways. Dumbo the elephant?

sO FAR HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO TRACK DOWN IF hANAS WAS AT SCHOOLS BUT un SAYS NO AS OF TODAY.

AJ,

I did see that piece in the Guardian.

I've a question: even if the IDF is sending phone calls and text messages to cell phones (provided people can still recharge batteries) to get out because the area's going to get shelled or bombed, where the heck do they expect the folks to go with the borders sealed. Coupled with the fact that every building could possibly be concealing terrorists, so is subject to shelling....

Sorry about the caps. I have spent far too much time in front of the computer. ugh!!

All,

I've got a 6:30 am meeting scheduled tomorrow morning, so have to get some shut-eye.

Have a good evening and a continuing stimulating discussion.

Hasta luego.

Thanks for all of your insight. I am no expert on it either and I have been wondering about that. maybe if Egypt helps with a lasting solution, they will have to stop this nonsense.

Rod, with all due respect, I believe that it was absolutely Hamas militants shooting rockets from the school in that video. Who the hell else would be shooting rockets from that school in Gaza in October 2007?

Why didn't Israel take them out? Because Israel didn't want to fire into a school! It only started firing at schools this week, remember.

It is not even disputed that Hamas uses its citizens as human shields. Hamas admits it!

Again, I share your compassion and sympathy for the Palestinian people. But let's not pretend Hamas isn't a radical Islamic terror organization that values human life. This is an organization that values death, just like al-Qaeda. It's very tragic for the Palestinian people, but Hamas isn't worthy of sympathy or contrived excuses.

Lynne,
you know what Mubarak wants?
he wants to have his son Jamal Succeed him. This is what he cares about most. He does not care what his people think or care for.
so very simple way be an Ally to Israel then the US will be happy with you and your son will be the next Egyptian president.
he knows that and when his son become a president please come to blog on the article'
"Jamal Mubarak Sworn Egypt's New President"

Bye Lynne! Have a good night's sleep.

Why is there so little sympathy for Israel even though they are in the right? This is not a war. There is a terrorist attack from Hamas and Israel has all the right to defend itself even if it means getting into Gaza?

The resident of Gaza need to be saved! from Hamas and not from Israel.

Nite Lynne!

Rod,
You wrote:
so very simple way be an Ally to Israel then the US will be happy with you and your son will be the next Egyptian president.

How would he become the next Egyptian President just because of that? Do the Egyptian people care if they are an ally to the United States?

I wondered about too, Linda. The US gets to pick who succeeds the Egyptian president?

Politics is very ugly on ALL sides–even the USA's part!

Bottom line for, the sake of the human element, this must end. There is no justification.

I, too, must call it a night, so I leave you all with the human rights lawyer's words from last night:

"...All wars are crimes, in my view. With two wrongs never making a right, if this nonsensical murderous tit-for-tat continues unchallenged, it will be both Palestinian and Israeli children who will continue to pay the ultimate price for the criminal acts of their elected leaderships.

Until this cyclical dilemma of civilian murder on both sides ends, we will be left haunted with these visionary words of Mahatma Gandhi:

"An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind."

Thanks, folks, for a SECOND night of calm–WOW!!

A pat on the back to us all.

Laila Tov. Good night :)

Salaam Shalom

1 million refugee's, starving, camped out along the border would get a lot quicker action from other countries to do something, along with a lot more sympathy. I have really no sympathy for ones like those calling CNN from within there homes, you can hear shell fire like next door. If I had Children I would'nt waiste time calling, I'd separate myself from Hamas and "head for the hills" and maby throw up a white flag, but they support Hamas so they are going to stick it out with them it seems. And don't give me "how can someone who is already a refugee flee", It's simple, unless thats everyones mentality, then there all not so bright. AC still not telling us whats up with school

egypt=joke.they are on the ameri-jew side.they also closed the border.cause they don't want refugees on their side.

night AJ!

Hippie, Check my previous post, see what my question was please.
Thanks

no arab state care about palestinians.they don't care about them,they only care is when they're getting killed.it seems to me this is like wrestling,the good vs. evil.good business for news stations.

Nona,
If you read my message it is clear that i said I do not think it is a school that was bombed yesterday. and I am pretty sure of what i said.

if it was in October 2007 that might be a different story again I cannot say it was an actual video or it was not.

The M230 gun on an apache could have been used and the three militants could have been taken out easily.

Anyway the History of the IDF operations in Gaza and west bank did not show much sensitivity to other civilians and we can go forever on this debate

look at this article

http://www.btselem.org/English/Gaza_Strip/20081231_Army_bombs_metal_workshop_in_Gaza.asp

shows you how the IDF presented this as an evidence to bombing a truck loaded with Grad rockets.

About my Opinion on Hamas. I by no means sympathize with Hamas.
and will never try to make excuses for their actions but on the other hand I have no excuse for killing 700 Palestinians more than 50% of them are Women and Children.

linda your question is a fantasy

Get off the Bong, Hippie.
It needs to be asked and debated. If you don't like it, then well.........
Everyone here is having a nice, respectful debate, and if you don't like that, then ...........

religion is a human weakness.there is no truth,and no facts,and the pope,another joke like every other big shot in every other religion.

then what.be real don't be fake,are you scared of some make believe nonsense?

You missed the point I was making, Hippie.
The POINT WAS, how can someone on the other side of the world, tell someone else what to do when they don't live it day to day? UMMMMMMM maybe we can all take a lesson from that book.
If you feel that way about religion, then fine, that is your opinion, but I thought it was funny.

linda do u wanna smoke some?

Linda and Nona,

Good question about who selects the egyptian president.

There is a leading Gang in Egypt. the president is the head of that gang. if you know people in Egypt or people from Egypt ask them.

The president there is a dictator and he is preparing his son to take over after him.

If the US recognizes him as a president he will be. if not people will very likely turn against him. The Egyptians are so weakened from the existing regime and no they cannot do anything about it. If the regime is weakened which will be at the transition, people may be able to take advantage of it.

I don't believe in religion.

Oh, I see Rod, Thanks. I am going to look into that more. That makes me very interested in how that works in Egypt. Although, it does make more sense now.

American Jew
very nice closing statement good night

Hippie,
I'm sure mine is better than yours!

america likes the saudis also,they're also a very democratic society,or am i trippin!

what's better than mine linda?

Rod, apologies if I misunderstood you.

I support Israel and its attempts to eradicate Hamas. I can't say that I support the killing of hundreds of people in the process of taking them out, because it makes me sick, but I also think Hamas is equally if not more culpable for that number. If you don't want civilians killed, don't use them as human shields - especially when YOU'VE BEEN WARNED THAT THE ATTACK IS COMING! Build bomb shelters for them like you do for your weapons! Responsibility for protecting the citizenry from enemy combatants lies with the governments of that citizenry, and there are ways to do that even against a more powerful army. Do something - ANYTHING - to protect your people! Don't just use them for human shields!

It's terrible! It's horrible! And I'm sorry for the women and children, even the women and children who are trained suicide bombers and consider the killing of Jews to be an honor. I truly am.

Again, my apologies if I misunderstood you.

gotta fly
nice chat'n with everyone, have to shovel snow from driveway, it's piled eight feet high. Eskimo bomb shelters every where!

8 Feet, Oh, No, it is 75 degrees here. Good luck Nick, stay warm!

Oh ya, I think we can all agree mines better,

Ha Ha
Thanks Linda

It must be good if you are going to shovel snow at the time of night!

linda in portuguese means beautiful.but i still wanna know what's better?

Nick,
You can Ha ha me when it is 80 there and we are in a drought stricken 120 here.

My smoke is better than your smoke, Hippie

Hippie,
I know that is what Linda means, my grandfather made sure that was integrated into my name. yes, I mean integrated, my name is 26 letters long. Someone must have been really HIGH!:)

Well I hope whether or not the peace deal is restarted before Obama takes office, that Hamas STOPS firing rockets into Israel and allows the need for prosperity and economic developoment of its people to trump the urge to 'stick it to Israel'.

I hope you are right, Joseph T

linda i need some of that

Why in the muslim Religion/World are there no voices like Ghandi, Martin L. King, or Desmon Tutu whom represent groups of people who were clearly oppressed. Why so much Hatred and leadership-lessness in a region of the world with such history and heritage. Where is the Muslim World's version of Obama or Kennedy, or Blair???
The World is sick and tired of HATE no matter what the reason and will not stand for it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you support my last statement copy-paste and pass it along!!!

me too

I think you are right about,"the world is sick of hate!" I am sick of it, but I will tell you that a lot of Christian people think this is what is suppose to happen. That scares me. I wonder if policies are not made based on one religious beliefs.

Nona,

We should not waste our time discussing if Hamas is an extremist organization because we know. on the other hand we should not say that we Jews do not have Extremists. You know that we have many groups that rival Hamas's Extremism if not exceed it.
We are no innocent and the best way to correct ourselves is to know our faults.

We have the military might but our military might should not blind us. We should not kill Women and Children. you know that we are the ones who violated the cease fire it is proven and recorded by many media outlets.

Rabbi Michael Lerner writes
"Killing 500 Palestinians and wounding 2,000 others (at the time of writing) is disproportionate. Hamas can harass, but it cannot pose any threat to the existence of Israel. And just as Hamas's indiscriminate bombing of population centres is a crime against humanity, so is Israel's killing of civilians (at least 130 so far in Gaza, not to mention the thousands in the years of the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza)."

Now the numbers are over 700 killed should we just keep counting!

I really think denying the occupation is not the solution ending it is.

Rod,
you know that Israel is not going anywhere. The people are staying right there. So, does that mean that there will never be an end, unless they leave?

ok guys going to sleep. yall have a good night
Peace Salam Shalom

Hezbollah has joined the fight, 3 rockets just launched from Lebanon. This is just what the Bush administration has been waiting for. Now is the time for the US to declare war on Iran, Hamas and Hezbollah. This might be the last chance for Bush and Cheney to rid the world of the evil that has been festering in the Middle East. It just might be the start of the final battle for good against evil.

Clubfan, where did you get that info?

I agree with you, Joseph.

You should watch the Fox/BBC interviews with the guy who was born and raised in Hamas - his father and uncle were both founders of Hamas, he himself was president of Hamas Youth, and he served 18 months in Israeli prisons. He addreses a lot of your points in those interviews.

The videos are on youtube if you're interested.

OMG, I see it on FOX cubfan

Oh shit.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7817135.stm

No one says Israel should leave. I think the solution is a two state solution but given that there is a True Palestinian State that controls its borders and is sustainable ( you do not want to make a little prison call it a country and you can starve people to death if you decided not to let food in). , Palestinian Refugees have the right to return to their homeland and live in peace.
giving palestinians freedom and hope will be the biggest step towards resolving this conflict.

Rod,
I just didn't know if there could be a solution if they didn't leave because a lot of people think so.

Now rockets are coming in from Lebanon. I think that Hizbollah will be the end of Lebanon as we know it. They too have an Islamic terrorist group as a government. I hope Lebanon isn't turned into a wasteland, but it seems that is what they are bargaining for.

Bill,
I am so afraid that you are right. I don't care who started what, at this point, if all of this continues, more countries will be pulled into this. We may all be in trouble before it is over

I wonder why CNN isn't reporting it????????????????????

CNN just has a little blurb on it:

http://cnnwire.blogs.cnn.com/

thanks Bill!

Rod, I agree with you on a two-state solution. But it also has to include guarrantees that suicide bombers and rockets won't come into Israel, and if they do, Israel has the right to defend itself. That's the whole reason the borders have been so restricted on the Israeli side of Gaza since the Israeli's gave the Palestinians autonomous control of it in 2005.

In 2001, a deal was negotiated by Clinton that offered the Palestinians their own state, billions of dollars in cash and aid, and joint control of Jerusalem.

Arafat turned it down.

Also, it's not just a matter of drawing lines. Jerusalem is a real thorny issue.

And Linda is right. For a lot of these folks - including Hamas and Hezbullah - compete ending of "the occupation" (that is, the existence of Israel) is non-negotiable.

Now it is on the CNN home page, Thanks CNN

I think everyone left me :(

Thanks CNN for showing coverage on the lebanon rockets. Some people are up in the middle of the night and would like to keep informed.

Nona the 2001 deal was not a deal that the palestinians could accept. Arafat was Blamed but later on, many of the people who were involved in the negotiations said the Israelis and americans were as guilty as Arafat.

Now how can we achieve peace ?
both should have to recognize each others right to exist. There should be no attacks from either side.
( it is easy to do that if politicians are interested )

ok guys night night

night Rod

CNN, how about starting a blog about these rockets coming from Lebanon?

Here is a good peice of information,

Ahmed Aboul Gheit,

in arabic "Gheit" means low part of earth or land where old arabs used to go and sh..

Hi Linda - I'm still here. Are you?

Why the hell couldn't the Palestinians accept a state of their own, billions in aid, and joint control of Jerusalem? After 60 years as "refugees," I'd think that would be looking pretty good.

I'm still here

Hi Linda.

Saudi – you gave me a good chuckle. Thanks.

I know, I am just so upset about this latest new.
I have also started blogging on FOX, where the headline is"did the protestor go to far?" A lot of people are on there. I thought I was alone here. Glad your back!

As you can see, I have been blogging to CNN, if they are listening. :)

Now there are denials of Hezbullah rockets: http://www.stratfor.com/sitrep/20090108_lebanon_hezbollah_did_not_fire_rockets_israel_reporter

Where is this blog on Fox, Linda? Can you give me a link?

Here it is:
http://foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com/2009/01/07/youdecide_demonstrators/#comments

Thank you for the link

Thanks Linda.

I'll be back and forth

Linda,

"CNN, how about starting a blog about these rockets coming from Lebanon……."

You mean Israeli aggression on the northern front after they almost done with killing and wounding 1000s of civilians in Gaza with no outcome, rockets are still being launched into Israel.......It was just not the way to achieve peace.......

To CNN Blog moderators: I hope, we will going to see the same level of restriction on this blog as we have on other ‘cnn blogs’ to stop the comments of Israeli propagandists and others.

Thanks

Linda,

Thanks

I'm glad, I think they are reading our blogs!

Linda, reading Blogs not commenting of your outlandish comments-there is a difference,

Honestly nobody cares what you write, so give up and go back to FOX Blog site

I think I am losing my mind, I don't know what I just wrote that for. I meant to write:
I'm glad they are finally reporting it, I think they are reading our blogs.

So CNN, if you are reading, why do you not have 24 hour live television? I pay for 24 hours of service, not 12 hours of service and 12 hours of reruns. You and other networks keep running loops of the same thing. Does anyone work there after 9pm?

rockets at northen Israel?

prepare to start counting the lebanese children Isrel will kill

Fawad Ali,
Kiss my A**

linda,

you sound exciting!

I'm not putting up with his Sh*t tonight. I'm sick of being nice and getting crapped on.

Linda,

you have the marketing power that works in the Middle east and for who are Abu Mazin and abu algheit.

I am truly concerned about what is going on in the middle east, and I do NOT need some egotistical prat making any comments to me. He is a PUNK

Saudi,
I really have tried to stay above all of the hatred, learn, and maybe have a dialogue that helps everyone, I don't know what his problem is. he just wants to spread hatred.
I know how Abu Mazin and Abu algheit a little bit. I hope that was a compliment.

Most arab leaders in the meiddle east are attracked to your kind of invitation and enjoy kissing

haha :)

Abu Mazin is opssessed with condi and levni

ohh

but some time abu mazin over does it and get sufecated then he retretes to come back again later. edection, edection.

Sorry, I was looking them up to get more info, I'm back

Hi every body ,

I think this action should stop, all this killing is for what? i am really shocked . its unfair

Where is the Security Council?

Please stop

Who are the real terrorists?

The facts bear repeating:

Israel not only has been using terrorizism itself it has rewarded
the terrorizers:

Menachem Begin
elected Prime Minister of Israel
1977-83
Headed the Urgun-a terrorist organization

Izhak Shamir
elected Prime Minister of Israel after Begin
Headed Stern Gang-a terrorist organization

Eshkol
elected Prime Minister of Israel
1963-69
Haganah-a terrorist organization

Yitzhak Rabin
elected Prime Minister of Israel
1974-77 and 1992-95
Palmah-a terrorist organization

Moshe Dayan
Foreign Minister of Israel
1977-79
Haganah-a terrorist organization

Ariel Sharon
Foreign Minister of Israel
1998
Haganah-a terrorist organization

Just the Facts

Saudi – isn't it against your religion to have contact with women?

Hey Chris – a nice tactical nuclear placement in Gaza will do the trick. Wipe out Hamas and no one will think of lobbing another rocket into Israel again. It would cause an immediate cease-fire as well. People should support the IDF in such an endeavor.

Hello Everyone (Except the criminal baby killer supporters),

Israeli brave soldiers keep attacking ambulances.... their latest bravery they shut a dead Palestinan in his head again. There was two internationals traveling in ths ambulance so lets see how Israel is going to lie this time and claim that Hamas was using the ambulance.

Chris,

Yes they forget their history quickly... The Israeli history is filled with booldthirsty terrorists running their government.

"Professor" – thankfully you get your name from the most trusted source in news, Hamas! You are rearing your ugly face here again, ready to get intellectually spanked for a second day in a row! If you don't like baby-killers, then you'd despise Hamas you drooling fool! Time to intellectually obliterate you again, vaporize your tripe like Israel is finishing off Hamas...

I will reiterate much of what I said earlier:
There is a big difference to defending and protecting one’s self and launching rockets aimed into a sovereign nation. Hamas calls for the destruction of Israel. Egypt hates Hamas; Jordan and even Fatah quietly want Hamas to get a spanking. Hamas is a terrorist organization, plain and simple – just like Al Quaeda. It needs to be destroyed accordingly. Unfortunately the Gazan people are taken hostage by Hamas. Their wonderful insight got Hamas elected, and now they are paying the price.
The failure to understand – or worse, to understand but not to acknowledge – the fundamental difference between deliberately targeting civilians (Hamas) and accidentally killing civilians in the course of self-defense (Israel) reflects moral obtuseness at best and outright bigotry at worst. It encourages those who deliberately employ the murder of civilians as a means toward achieving “moral equality” with their more humane enemies in the court of public opinion.
It is also important to note that Israel was not the only country that gained territory as a result of the failed Arab attack on them. Jordan occupied – indeed annexed – the entire West Bank, while Egypt occupied the Gaza strip. There were no resolutions demanding an end to these “occupations” although they were described as brutal and repressive.If the Arabs accepted the Peel Commission partition proposal, there would have been a Palestinian state. There would have been no Arab “refugee” problem had the Arab states accepted the subsequent UN partition. But instead, having rejected Jewish self-determination in 1937, the Arab world once again rejected it in 1948 and attacked Israel in an effort to destroy the new Jewish state, exterminate the Jewish population, and drive the Jews into the sea. Then again in 1967 it threatened Israel with destruction and annihilation.
Professor – history is not on your side buddy.
Finally, “Professor of Ignorance” – by singling out Israel for unique criticism not directed against countries iwth far worse human rights records reveals you to be a true international bigot. Israel affords all of its ciizens – Jews, Muslims, and Christians far better lives and opportunities than those afforded by any Arab or Muslim nation.

Now hurry up and get back to work. The fries are getting cold.

Anyone who supports nukes will be ignored and not responded to. Becuse they are not here for any intellectual conversation. They are only interested in spreading their venom.

I know Professor, you can't respond because I have obliterated every single argument that you have made. I merely propose that a guided tactical nuclear deployment will rid the world of the filth of Hamas, and make the world, and Gaza a better place.
You, on the other hand, defend Hamas.
'Nuff said. By the way, where are you a "Professor" – at the "Harvard of Gaza"?

Any idiot who would like to get on a blog discussing Israel and its war crimes against Gaza and bring up some other topics for discussion to confuse the readers will be ignored. They should go somewhere else to discuss their favorite topic.

Oh – you call Israel's act of self-defense a "war crime." But I guess it isn't a war-crime to launch rockets at civilians, advocate suicide bombings, and use human shields. Oh yeah, that's the progressive nature of your heroes you retarded animal.

So, Any one interested in discussing solutions?... Anyone has a history question on this brutal occupation?

Here is a solution:
I have a perfect cease-fire plan!- a nice tactical nuclear placement in Gaza will do the trick. Wipe out Hamas and no one will think of lobbing another rocket into Israel again. It would cause an immediate cease-fire as well. People should support the IDF in such an endeavor.

The truth about "The Retarded Professor"'s claim of 'Occupation

Israel was not the only country that gained territory as a result of the failed Arab attack on them. Jordan occupied – indeed annexed – the entire West Bank, while Egypt occupied the Gaza strip. There were no resolutions demanding an end to these “occupations” although they were described as brutal and repressive.If the Arabs accepted the Peel Commission partition proposal, there would have been a Palestinian state. There would have been no Arab “refugee” problem had the Arab states accepted the subsequent UN partition. But instead, having rejected Jewish self-determination in 1937, the Arab world once again rejected it in 1948 and attacked Israel in an effort to destroy the new Jewish state, exterminate the Jewish population, and drive the Jews into the sea. Then again in 1967 it threatened Israel with destruction and annihilation.
Professor – history is not on your side buddy.

The failure to understand – or worse, to understand but not to acknowledge – the fundamental difference between deliberately targeting civilians (Hamas) and accidentally killing civilians in the course of self-defense (Israel) reflects moral obtuseness at best and outright bigotry at worst. It encourages those who deliberately employ the murder of civilians as a means toward achieving “moral equality” with their more humane enemies in the court of public opinion.

If Hamas sends people to Cairo, there should be snipers aiming at their heads.

Thank G-d history is documented by intellectuals and not by idiots like some of the people here who cut and paste from an Israeli Embassy website.

Can you show me where I have "cut-and paste" from an "Israeli Embassy Website"? Oh no – you can't because it is another manufactured lie on your part. You have no credibility because you continue to lie. C'mon "Professor" – you again made an accusation...back it up – or fail to like you did yesterday, revealing your lies. Put up or shut up you tool!

Yeah, history is documented by intellectuals – people who reject terrorists like Hamas. People who despise the concept of human shields. People who are revolted by suicide bombings. People who are civilized unlike the savages of Hamas.

Israeli has been deliberately targeting civilians in Ambulances, Schools, Hospitals, Homes. Not just during this attack on Gaza, but throughout the Israeli Occupation history and that is documented by all the respected human rights organizations.

Israeli Occupying Forces has been using Palestinians as human shields thoughout its bural occupation of Palestine.

Israel is flushing itself down the toilet and taking the U.S. with it.

Israel wants a Jewish only State becuase Jews are their G-d chosen people and they would like to see all Christians and Muslims killed. (reminds me with hitler and Nazism).

Today I wore my IDF hat. I received so many thumbs-ups and compliments! VIVA IDF!!!!

You idiots are so foolish. If Israel wanted to deliberately target Palestinians, there would be none left. Israel, as I have documented over and over, has accepted a 2-state peaceful solution. The Arabs have refused – in 1937, 1947, 2000-2001.
You still can't respond to a single point I made above, because they are facts and your assertions are lies.
You say foolish trash like Israel wants "Christians and Muslims killed" when they serve in Israeli parliament, on the Israeli Supreme Court, in the Israeli military and are afforded all the rights equal to anyone else in Israel. "Professor" – once again, you are trounced. You are such a skank.

Valkrie22,

It sure is... If my fellow americans don't wake up and press their government to Stop US Tax Aid To Israrel then thats where they are going to find themselves in the future. I am hoping that enough smart and entelectuals people will realize that before its too late and make a change.

Valkyrie22 – you are nothing but a gutter-snipe.

Valkyrie22,

Do you ride a valkyrie?

Yeah "Professor" – single out Israel against the backdrop of many nations that have worse human rights records – many Arab nations. Sure, you are nothing but an international bigot who lacks the ability to respond to any single point of fact thrown at you both yesterday and today. It doesn't take much mental brawn to expose you for the teratoma of a retard that you are.

"Professor" Do you ride a goat?

Here's a good joke for everyone:

A Palestinian suicide bomber successfully completes his
task and kills a dozen Jews. Once in paradise, he finds
himself surrounded by 72 of the most beat bitches he has
ever seen. Thinking he was gypped, he goes to Allah to
complain. “Almightly Allah, how have you seen fit to
repay my sacrifice in this manner? These are the ugliest
women I have ever seen!” Allah replies, “Why do you
think they’re still virgins?”

To all US patriots; We had better think deeply about supporting this level of overt genocide.It takes a real coward to attack a heavily populated area like Gaza and speak of small rockets. There is such a thing as National responsibility and Karma. The US has supplied arms to isreal. We seriously need to not only stop but put them on notice that we will arrest them and hang them as War criminals – which is exactly what we have here. We better think again whether we really want to be a party to this massacre. It makes me sick to my stomach.

"Professor of Ignorance” – by singling out Israel for unique criticism not directed against countries with far worse human rights records reveals you to be a true international bigot. Israel affords all of its ciizens – Jews, Muslims, and Christians far better lives and opportunities than those afforded by any Arab or Muslim nation.

Valkyrie – shut your pie-hole. The fact that a few hundred Palestinians were killed in a 13 day operation when they are used as human shields in the most densely populated area on Earth proves that there is no genocide you fool! What should make you sick to your stomach is the practices of Hamas which you overtly defend. The bitter irony of you even mentioning the words "Nazi" and "war criminal" is not lost, when the Palestinians were some of the biggest supporters of the Nazi war criminals and Adolf Hitler.

"The Israeli military fires bone-crushing rubber bullets and live ammunition at unarmed Palestinian civilians engaged in peaceful protest, failing to distinguish between peaceful and violent resistance. The Israeli government has been demolishing Palestinian houses and crops in the Occupied Territories, while allowing Jewish settlers - many of them American - to illegally occupy the same land."

This is not from me but from American Jews Against the Occupation

"Jews Against the Occupation stands firmly against anti-Semitism and racism in all its forms. We see our historical struggle against anti- Semitism–a cornerstone of European white supremacist ideology–as inherently linked to all struggles against oppression. We therefore stand in solidarity with the Palestinian people in their struggle for freedom.

Judaism is a cultural and religious identity, which must not be equated with Zionism, a political movement. Criticism of the state of Israel, its policies, or the idea of a Jewish state does not by itself constitute anti-Semitism. Dismissing critics of Israel or of Zionism as "anti-Semitic" is a means of stifling debate and masking the impact of the occupation."

This is not from me but from the American Jews Against the Occupation.

Wow – so you found a fringe organization. I give you a medal you turd!
Here – I can give you a link as well against that:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,475226,00.html

But once again, you can't back up your claims. I asked you where I cut-and paste from an Israeli website (which you claimed) but you can't even answer that. You are a liar.

You claim that those in Gaza have no electricity, shelter, food, etc – but they have no shortage of rockets. What those people should do is replace their government with one that actually cares about advancing its people beyond the status of “human shields” – that would be appropriate. If Israel wanted to deliberately target Palestinians in the most densely populated area on Earth – shitloads more would be killed – it would be like shooting fish in a barrel. The fact that a few hundred are dead in a 13 day operation is frankly proof that the opposite is happening.
The failure to understand – or worse, to understand but not to acknowledge – the fundamental difference between deliberately targeting civilians (Hamas) and accidentally killing civilians in the course of self-defense (Israel) reflects moral obtuseness at best and outright bigotry at worst. It encourages those who deliberately employ the murder of civilians as a means toward achieving “moral equality” with their more humane enemies in the court of public opinion.

http://www.internationalpeaceandconflict.org/profiles/blog/show?id=780588%3ABlogPost%3A54983

Check out this story on Israeli clamp down on intellectual freedom.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1051597.html

I can post links to "Professor"

Let me quote:
The Muslim Canadian Congress, for example, has issued a statement holding Hamas responsible for precipitating the recent conflict in Gaza.

According to the congress, Hamas is responsible for using the Palestinian people as "human bait," in an effort to kindle an all-out war in Gaza.

"No other national liberation movement in modern history has offered martyrdom as a substitute to freedom and statehood. Hamas has set back the clock for the Palestinians and it is time for all Palestinians to recognize that Hamas offers only death, destruction and a place in Paradise, not a Palestinian State."

The columnist Mona Eltahawy, to give another example, who writes for Egypt's Al Masry Al Youm and Qatar's Al Arab, published a piece in which she lambasts Hamas and the Arab world for their self-destructive addiction to Israel.

On a positive note – the International boycott is working! Go to www. boycottisraeligoods.org ; nothing says one must buy israeli/zionist owned goods. the presbyterian church already has started the process.Why? because israel openly discriminates against gentiles(and that includes american christians) My parents went there and validated this{ both US Professors}.President Carter wrote a book about it. and laid out the reasons why israel is a true Apartheid
(racist} state.
Israel's problem is that they are trying to force ancient superstitious rules in a post-modern world. Yes muslim fanatics are trying to something similar. But one can not criticise israel without being called anti-semitic. You see the Zionists do believe in free speech as long as it is only for the chosen ones. Ever ask the question Chosen for what? Christians! Time to get over this religious made up story about how the jews are Gods special chosen people. The real Israel is a heavenly kingdom founded by the messiah not a gang of terrorists, mafiosa, and war criminals. The present day israel is an elaborate zionist scam. Yet there are real Jews who are truly wonderful people and we love them. These dangerous neo-zionists are not to be confused with the blessed ones who truly follow gods laws.

What is the use of a peace talk or a stop in the war against terror?, just about every time they should be peace Four rockets struck northern Israel from Lebanon on Thursday 8 January 2009, wounding two people. Look I believe that Israel should not stop until all this kind of bad influence on the face of the earth change their ways.

There is something that makes me laugh! Some demotrations carried out around the world.!!jesss”” if you feel that you want your voice to be heard “” the Government from the west should pls send them back to Gaza instead of coursing huge problems for us here in the west. Enough is enough.

In my views Israel should not stop until the terror on Israel ends and that goes for any country that does not want Israel to exist.

James breeds

Germany

Valkyrie:

I have not once used the term-anti semitic. I have never heard a mere critic of Israel called anti-semitic". People like you understand that if you repeat a big lie often enough people will begin to believe it. It would be terrible if this were true, since criticism of Israel is important, as is criticism of any imperfect democracy.
Indeed the Israeli government's harshest substantive critics are Israeli's, both inside and outside he government – and sometimes even in the cabinet itself! No one has ever called them anti-Semitic. The one prominent person I am aware of who equated anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism was Martin Luther King Jr., who responded to a question posed by a student who attacked Zionism by telling the student that attacks on Zionists were often a euphemism for attacking Jews. Certainly denying the Holocaust, or blaiming it on "the Jews" which has been a staple of Palestinian extreist rhetoric, constitutes bigotry.

Even those who believe that singling out Zionists or the Zionist state for criticism is not anti-Semitic must surely acknowledge that there is a difference between mere criticism of Israel and singling it out for unique sanctions such as divestiture or boycott.

These failed boycotts on Israel have gained little support. They are nothing new. Israel's record on human rights is among the best in the world, especially among nations that have confronted comparable threats. Israel has the only independent judiciary in the entire Middle East and has one of the most highly regarded Supreme Courts in the world. It is the only court in the Middle East from which an Arab or a Muslim can expect justice, as many havein winning dozens of victories against the Israeli government, the Israeli military, and Israeli citizens. I challenge proponents of a boycott to name a court in any other Arab or Muslim country that is comparable to the Israeli Supreme Court. Israel is the only true democracy in the Middle East and the only country that has virtually unlimited freedom of speech. Its media are generally very critical of its government, Any person in Israel – whether Jewish, Muslim, or Christian – can criticize the Israeli government or its leaders. No citizen of any other Mediterranean state or Muslim state can do that without fear of imprisonment or death. Nor can Palestinians openly criticize their leaders without fear of reprisal. As Arafat famously threatened the Mayor of Bethlehem, after the mayor had proposed a truce that would have halted Palestinian terrorism: "Whoever thinks of stopping the Intifada before it achieves its goal, I will give him 10 bullets in the chest." Arafat first denied making such a statement, and then when our State Department produced a tape recording, Arafat denied it was a threat. Finally, when Arab translators said it could have no other meaning, Arafat denied that it was directed at the mayor but rather at himself! The mayor of Bethlehem had no difficulty understanding what Arafat was saying – he immediately withdrew his proposal for a truce.
There is more gender, religious, sexual orientation, and ethnic equality in Israel than in any other Mideastern or Muslim country. The rights of women, gays, and others are more fully recognized and implemented in Israel than anywhere in the Arab world.
If you want to single out Israel for divestiture or a boycott – what about investing in the order of human rights records of various countries? If that were to be done, investment in Israel would increase dramatically, while investments in Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, the Philippines, Indonesia, the Palestinian Authority, and most other countries of the world would decrease dramatically.

Professor Irwin Cotler, a leading scholar of human rights, has identified the following sets of what he calls "new anti-Semitism":
Genocidal anti-Semitism – the public calls for the destruction of Israel and the Jewish people – examples are the covenants of terrorist groups like Hamas that commit themselves to the destruction of Israel and the Jewish people/ Religious legal rulings (fatwas) that call for the destruction of Israel and the Jewish people/ State-incited calls for genocide (Iranian threat to annihilate Israel)
Political anti-Semitism The denial of the Jewish people's right to self-determination; the de-legitimization of Israel as a state; the attribution to Israel of all the world's evils
Ideological anti-Semitism (which surpasses the Zionism=Racism rhetoric) to "Nazify" Israel
Theological anti-Semitism The convergence of Islamic anti-Semitism and Christian "replacement" theology, darwing on classical hatred of Jews
Holocaust denial
Economic anti-Semitism which goes beyond the Arab boycott of Israel to include extra-territorial application of restrictive covenants against countries trading with Israel
Racist terrorism against the Jews
Denial to Israel of equality before the law in the international arena The singling out of Israel for differential and discriminatory treatment in the international arena.

Hey Brandon!!!! Nice to hear from you again! What part of the country/world are you where it is so freezing! I'll check out Fartwad's comments to Linda in a min.

President Carter wrote a book about it. and laid out the reasons why israel is a true Apartheid

hahahahahahahahaha

Fourteen members of the Carter Center advisory board have resigned after concluding that the Center’s founder, former president Jimmy Carter, has turned to "malicious advocacy" for the Palestinians and against Israel.

William B. Schwartz Jr., who served as the United States Ambassador to The Bahamas during the Carter administration, is among the group.

The mass resignations come after Professor Kenneth Stein resigned his position as Middle East Fellow of the Carter Center and after Professor Melvin Konner declined a position advising Carter.

Two letters sent by the resigning members follow:

Dear fellow member of the Carter Center Board of Councilors,

This has been a difficult time for us. As members of the Board of Councilors of the Carter Center we have endeavored to promote the efforts of the Carter Center in our community. However, the recent book authored by President Carter "Palestine; Peace not Apartheid" and his comments in the press made while promoting the book have given us pause in our efforts. We are deeply troubled by the President's comments and writings and are submitting the following letter of resignation to the Carter Center. We wanted to inform you, our fellow Board members, of our actions and encourage you to contact us if you have any questions regarding our resignation.

--------------------------–

Dear President Carter,

As members of the Board of Councilors each one of us has been proud to be associated with the Carter Center in its noble struggle to repair the world. However, in light of the publication of your latest book Palestine; Peace Not Apartheid and your subsequent comments made in promoting the book, we can no longer in good conscience continue to serve the Center as members of the Board of Councilors.

In its work in conflict resolution the Carter Center has always played the useful and constructive role of honest broker and mediator between warring parties. In your book, which portrays the conflict between Israel and her neighbors as a purely one-sided affair with Israel holding all of the responsibility for resolving the conflict, you have clearly abandoned your historic role of broker in favor of becoming an advocate for one side.

The facts in dealing with the conflict are these: There are two national narratives contesting one piece of land. The Israelis, through deed and public comment, have consistently spoken of a desire to live in peace and make territorial compromise to achieve this status. The Palestinian side has consistently resorted to acts of terror as a national expression and elected parties endorsing the use of terror, the rejection of territorial compromise and of Israel's right to exist. Palestinian leaders have had chances since 1947 to have their own state, including during your own presidency when they snubbed your efforts.

Your book has confused opinion with fact, subjectivity with objectivity and force for change with partisan advocacy. Furthermore the comments you have made the past few weeks insinuating that there is a monolith of Jewish power in America are most disturbing and must be addressed by us. In our great country where freedom of expression is basic bedrock you have suddenly proclaimed that Americans cannot express their opinion on matters in the Middle East for fear of retribution from the "Jewish Lobby" In condemning the Jews of America you also condemn Christians and others for their support of Israel. Is any interest group to be penalized for participating in the free and open political process that is America? Your book and recent comments suggest you seem to think so.

In the past you would inject yourself into this world to moderate between the two sides in the pursuit of peace and as a result you earned our admiration and support. Now you repeatedly make false claims. You wrote that UN Security Council Resolution 242 says that "Israel must withdraw from territories" (p. 38), but you know the word "must" in fact is not in the resolution. You said that since Mahmoud Abbas has been in office there have been no peace discussions. That is wrong. You wrote that Yassir Arafat told you in 1990 that, "The PLO has never advocated the annihilation of Israel" (p. 62). Given that their Charter, which explicitly calls for Israel's destruction, was not revised until the late 1990s, how could you even write such a claim as if it were credible?

You denied on Denver radio on December 12 that Palestinian Prime Minister Haniyah said he would never accept or negotiate with Israel. However the BBC monitoring service reported just the opposite. In fact Haniyah said: "We will never recognize the usurper Zionist government and will continue our jihadist movement until Bayt al-Maqdis (Jerusalem) and the Al-Aqsa Mosque are liberated. When presented with this fact you said, "No he didn't say that, no he did not do that, I did not hear that." These are not points of opinion, these are points of fact.

And finally, it is a disturbing statement to write: "that it is imperative, that the general Arab community and all significant Palestinian groups make it clear that they will end the suicide bombings and other acts of terrorism when international laws and the ultimate goals of the Roadmap for Peace are accepted by Israel." In this sentence you clearly suggest that you are condoning violence against Israelis until they do certain things (p.213). Your use of the word "Apartheid," regardless of your disclaimers, has already energized white supremacist groups who thrive on asserting Jewish control of government and foreign policy, an insinuation you made in your OPED to the LA Times on December 8, 2006: "For the last 30 years, I have witnessed and experienced the severe restraints on any free and balanced discussion of the facts." According to Web site monitoring by the Anti-Defamation League, U.S. white supremacists have enthusiastically embraced your suggestion that the Israel lobby stifles debate in this country, saying it confirms Jewish control of government and foreign policy as well as and the inherently "evil" nature of Jews. If you doubt the support you are giving and receiving, please refer to: [http://www.adl.org]

From there you can get to the postings of four different White Supremacist organizations that both support and make use of the contents of your book and what you have said in public.

As a result it seems that you have turned to a world of advocacy, including even malicious advocacy. We can no longer endorse your strident and uncompromising position. This is not the Carter Center or the Jimmy Carter we came to respect and support. Therefore it is with sadness and regret that we hereby tender our resignation from the Board of Councilors of the Carter Center effective immediately.

valkyrie22

my late father, a survivor of auschwitz and dachau had a saying that befits you especially:

"hang yourself on a rope made of sugar, you will have a sweet death"

why don't you, brainless provocateur?

On April 9, it was announced that Carter would visit Khaled Meshal, the leader of Hamas, in Damascus. He was strongly advised against doing so by the US State Dept, but he said he felt "quite at ease" meeting with the leaders of the terrorist group. Before his visit with Hamas, Carter had never visited Israeli victims of Hamas rockets. He then called for the European Union to break from the US and recognize the legitimacy of Hamas, despite the group's continuing terrorism and refusal to accept Israel's existence. Carter has adamantly refused to debate anyone regarding the plethora of errors in his book even though he has said the title "was meant to inspire debate."
Obviously , Valkyrie has never even read Carter's book. Despite its title, it offers no shred of evidence to prove that Israel practices apartheid. Search through the pages carefully and you will find the word "apartheid" mentioned only 3 times. Carter doesn't even define what the term means. The Washington Post accused Carter of "bait and switch tactics" by failing to prove what he alleges.Carter even admits, toward the end of the book, that the term apartheid is problematic: the situation in Israel today "is unlike that in South Africa – not racism, but the acquisition of land". He does not add that Israel gained control ofthat territory in a defensive war, that is has long offered to trade land for peace, and that it has pulled its settlers and soldiers off much of these lands in genuine good faith.
What is most striking of Carter's use of the word apartheid is his refusal to apply such labels to countries that actually deserve it. The Arab dictatorship in Sudan, for example, has murdered hundreds of thousands of black muslims in Darfur. Its government backed militia, the janjaweed, has displaced millions of people and used systematic rape as a weapon of terror. Yet when Carter visited Darfur in 2007, he vehemently objected to the use of the term "genocide" to describe what is happening in Darfur.
The International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid of 1973 defines apartheid as "inhuman acts committed for the purpose of establishing and maintaining domination by one racial group of persons over any other racial group of persons." That might describe Darfur, but has no relevance at all to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict which Carter acknowledges is not based on racism but rather, he claims, on "acquisition of land."

kevin

see above

When Carter was asked in a Chris Matthews interview whether he believed Israel's "persecution" of Palestinians was "even worse....than a place like Rwanda," Carter answered, "Yes. I think-yes." The comparison is obscene. Nearly one million civilians were massacred in a matter of weeks during the Rwandan genocide. The number of Israelis and Palestinians killed during any comparable period of time has, at worst, been in the hundreds – nearly all the direct result of Palestinian terrorism and Israeli efforts to stop it. The Rwandan victims never had a chance to prevent the killing. In contrast, the Palestinians have repeatedly chosen violence instead of negotiations and have refused to sign or honor any peace deal, from the generous terms of the Peel Commission in 1937 until the present day. To compare Rwanda to Israel is insulting not only to Israel, but to the memory of the Rwandan victims who were brutally raped, tortured, mutilated, and murdered by soldiers and machete-wielding militias and civilians in what can only be described as a genocide.
When called on to defend his arguments, Carter has refused – because he knows he cannot.

Oh so now we are attacking Carter...

So now Carter is a Hamas operative?

"Professor" – I was just responding to "Valkyrie" who thinks that Carter somehow legitimizes his tripe. You still fail to respond to a single point of history or fact that I have laid out in detail in multiple posts and summarized for you. Instead you turn to one-line statements that are tangential and non-responsive. Pathetic.

professor

who said that?

No – Carter is not a Hamas "operative." He is just a hypocrite.

Go check out the SHIT List:

http://www.masada2000.org/shit-list.html

7000+ Jews who speak against Israel....

Yeah "Professor" – another baseless claim – like when you said:
(1) The UN said the school bombing was a "crime against humanity"
(2) I was lifting posts from an "Israeli Embassy Website"
amongst others that you couldn't respond to with proof.

"Professor" the reality is that complete freedom of information and freedom of speech among Israelis and Jews allows for the widest array of views to be presented, whereas virtually total control over most information to most residents of Arab and Muslim states, coupled with extreme sanctions for expressing dissenting views, makes any realistic comparison impossible.

You are not worth responding to.... When I see that you have some respect to Human life then i will talk to you.

The un always lies for terrorists, what they did in lebanon, of not releasing the tape of the terrorists kidnapping soldiers while they did nothing was a crime. Hizbollah used to use there bases for cover, no wonder they got hit

baseless ad hominem

professor

you did not comment on the document i posted on the resignation of some members of the board of the carter foundation and their reasons for it

but of course you never respond to facts

and you are no professor either

It is a fundamental fallacy to conclude that one side of a dispute must be right if some people who are ethnically identified with that side support the other side . For example, the fact that there is a handful of Jewish Holocaust deniers does not mean that the Holocaust did not occur. Nor does the fact that some Italian Jews supported Mussolini in the early 1930s prove that fascism was right. Yet a staple of pro-Palestinian propaganda is the argument that is structured as follows: "See, even a Jew like [fill in the name] believes that Israel is wrong and the Palestinians are right about [fill in the issue]." This argument by "ethnic admission" is both logically and empirically fallacious.

Thats why Israel expell even Jews who are against Israel from entering Israel?

Funny – the "Professor" is confronted with facts and truth and history, then doesn't respond. When pushed to back up his claims, he says "You are not worth responding to."

"Professor" of bs – you have been totally demolished.

"Professor" – running the grill at the local falafel stand doesn't qualify you as a "professor". Well, unless you are at the "Harvard of the Occupied Territories" – The University of Gaza. Go Fighting Akmeds!!!

When Orthodox Jews speak against the State of Isreal to me that destroy any religious claims Israel might have.

"Professor" – can you back up that claim as well – or should I add it to the bucket of all your other made up lies. Where is your evidence of that?

Hey – do you think that in a Hamas Olympics there is the 200 meter suicide-bombing dash?

professor

baseless ad nauseum

Those of you who rely on cuss words to prove your point... It only prove your stupidity and ignorance.

"Professor", I understand that you are barely literate. I will re-post what I said above to you, in order to effectively respond and obliterate your most recent assertion:

It is a fundamental fallacy to conclude that one side of a dispute must be right if some people who are ethnically identified with that side support the other side . For example, the fact that there is a handful of Jewish Holocaust deniers does not mean that the Holocaust did not occur. Nor does the fact that some Italian Jews supported Mussolini in the early 1930s prove that fascism was right. Yet a staple of pro-Palestinian propaganda is the argument that is structured as follows: “See, even a Jew like [fill in the name] believes that Israel is wrong and the Palestinians are right about [fill in the issue].” This argument by “ethnic admission” is both logically and empirically fallacious.

Professor – you rely on lies and hypocrisy and a barrel of statements that you are unable to back up, and defend Hamas. That is true baseless ad nauseam.

"Professor" I would caution you not to use Latin phrases when your command of even basic English is bare at best.

I do not have to prove anything to you... who are you?

When any other respected individual on here ask me for more details I will provide it to him or her.... but you just go play with yourself because thats the only thing you can do right now.

What's the matter "Professor" – did you overcook the fries again? Did your Wifi go out at the falafel stand?

professor

you have not addressed a sinle documented and verifyable fact presented on this block

what university teaches ignoring facts and relying on baseless propaganda?

Oh – right – you don't have to "prove" anything. You just state baseless lies, and then scurry away unable to defend even the most basic of them.

Yes lets put your degrees next to mine and see who have more.... count how many languages you do speak compared to me and then you can talk. But, if all life experience you have is serving in the (IOF) that does not make you intellegent nor educated.

Dan – The University of Gaza of course! Along with classes in bomb-making and Jew-killing, they have recently added graduate studies in Stoning, suicide-bombing, and a certificate in Bloodthirsty Savagery!

"Professor" – I hope you don't count English as one of your languages – you aren't exactly literate in it.

Hey – here's a joke to lighten the mood up here a bit – I posted this on one of the other blogs:

A Palestinian suicide bomber successfully completes his
task and kills a dozen Jews. Once in paradise, he finds
himself surrounded by 72 of the most beat bitches he has
ever seen. Thinking he was gypped, he goes to Allah to
complain. “Almightly Allah, how have you seen fit to
repay my sacrifice in this manner? These are the ugliest
women I have ever seen!” Allah replies, “Why do you
think they’re still virgins?”

After spending some time at the "Professor"'s "University, I have learned some basic tenets of Islam:

(1) Women can’t talk….ever
(2) Using your hand instead of toilet paper makes it easier to give a girl a “Dirty Akmed”
(3) Women can never take off their burka or expose any part of their body…or they are killed in a funny manner
(4) You need four witnesses to convict anyone of a crime
(5) The reason that they execute their criminals painfully is because they believe that crimes must be paid for in pain and that pain on Earth counts double that of pain in the afterlife. So, you see, it’s not because they’re bloodthirsty savages, it’s because they care. You see? Don’t you see?

In all seriousness people, the "Professor" is a perfect example of why people should support my plan of a tactical nuclear response in Gaza. Not only, as I have said before, would it command an immediate ceasefire and stop all rocket activity, but the added benefit:
eliminating people like "Professor" would increase the median IQ of the remaining people.

KEVIN AND DAN...

Guys!! ..i cant help it but laugh and laugh....this is far more exciting than before.... keep it up..!! with the professor kassam...bwahahaha......

professor with all of your degrees, can you answer a simple question for a change?

how many universities were in the west bank before 1967 and how many are there now (under the "brutal" israeli occupation)

or is not dignified to you to reply to simple questions posed in easy english?

Dan, Dan, Dan....that is all relative to what you consider a "university." Perhaps our distinguished friend, "The Professor" considers the hovels which shovel islamic madras indoctrination "universities."

Now Israel is admitting that they hit the school by mistake....

But really – out of all the universities in the West Bank which have opened since 1967 – the "Harvard" of the occupied territories must be awarded to the Islamic University of Gaza. I'm sure Al Quds University in the West Bank can compete for the Yale award this year, but I hear that MIT has nothing on the bomb-making courses taught at An-Najah College.

I'm sure Hamas will say that firing thousands of rockets into Israel was "a mistake" as well.

kevin

no, i mean universities, including islamic universities

check it, there was NONE under jordanian occupation, and there are about a dozen now (i got it from the palestinian authority webside, not the mossad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

yeah right.

True. Here is the Wikipedia reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Bank

I quote – to back up the claim (unlike "The Professor):

Before 1967 there were no universities in the West Bank (except for the Hebrew University in Jerusalem – see below). There were a few lesser institutions of higher education; for example, An-Najah, which started as an elementary school in 1918 and became a community college in 1963. As the Jordanian government did not allow the establishment of such universities in the West Bank, Palestinians could obtain degrees only by travelling abroad to places such as Jordan, Lebanon, or Europe.
After the region was captured by Israel in the Six-Day War, several educational institutions began offering undergraduate courses, while others opened up as entirely new universities. In total, seven Universities have been commissioned in the West Bank since 1967

Now is "The Professor" going to claim that the Palestinian Authority Website and Wikipedia are under evil Zionist control.
Hey "Professor" – how much is the falafel combo today?

See how stupid both of you are? Kevin and Dan?

An-Najah National University

The President of that university (who happened to be Christian) spoke at several churches accross the United States and I was lucky to attend several of his speaches.

This is in the west bank and it goes all the way back to 1918.

professor

u r a non entity

u r a liar and a cheat

u will not be addressed anymore by any sane person, because u refuse to acknowledge facts

that makes u an ignoramus and if u r a professor, i am a space scientist

Go read a little before you open your moth and let some junk out again...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An-Najah_National_University

"Professor" – how do you respond to the following:
Before 1967 there were no universities in the West Bank.
As the Jordanian government did not allow the establishment of such universities in the West Bank. That is from the link I provided above.

Oh – and to correct your lie:
An elementary school bearing the name of the An-Najah Nablusi School was founded in 1918. In 1977 An-Najah National College (ANC) was converted into a full-fledged university ( An-Najah National University ) to meet the needs of the Palestinian people for higher education. The new Campus located in the Juneid Suburb of Nablus was inaugurated in 2006.

For those of you who have some brain (that exclude Kevin and Dan and their like) and willing to educate themselves on Israel:

Hey – if there were Nobel Prizes given for advances in suicide bombing techniques and Kassam rocket production innovation – these institutions would win hands-down!
Professor, I know you claim to be multi-lingual, etc. Have you ever heard of the term "douche-bag"? You should look it up because it really describes you.

It was upgraded to An-Najah National University in 1977,

even on the website itsays the university was founded in 1977

For those of you who don't want to be simply indoctrinated by "Professor"s Hamas propaganda – here is the other side:
http://www.youtube.com/user/idfnadesk

See, Professor, others can post links as well! Now get back to the falafel!

kevin

leave him alone

let him drown in his own ignorance

"It became An-Najah College in 1941 and a two-year community college in 1963."

Why don't you just cut and paste the whole link I gave you?

Stupid ignorant?

Yes why don't you leave me alone and you go play with each other? You fags...

Yeah Dan – he can't handle facts – only lies an ignorance. In celebration of the most recent defeat of "The Professor" – a daily occurrence, I give you:
Khadijah!!!! a Nice Palestinian Woman Searching for a Man:
Height: Half as tall as a man
Bust: Uncle Fajid’s hand size
Burqa Size: Large
Turn Ons: Romantic dates, arranged marriages, cockatiels, dates
Turn Off’s: The Salvation Army, Jewish Bankowners, infidels
Hobbies: Not reading, not learning, not making eye contact with anyone
If I could be any type of candy bar, I’d be a: Abba-Zabba because that’s my dad’s name
Favorite fashion designers: Tommy Dunefiger/ Khalvin Khlein

But Professor, it couldn't be established as a UNIVERSITY until the Jordanians left. It was a community college. Thus, it was in 1977, established as a true 4 year university. As the record shows, where I have already repeated it twice and referenced it above:
Before 1967 there were no universities in the West Bank. There were a few lesser institutions of higher education; for example, An-Najah, which started as an elementary school in 1918 and became a community college in 1963. As the Jordanian government did not allow the establishment of such universities in the West Bank, Palestinians could obtain degrees only by travelling abroad to places such as Jordan, Lebanon, or Europe.
After the region was captured by Israel in the Six-Day War, several educational institutions began offering undergraduate courses, while others opened up as entirely new universities. In total, seven Universities have been commissioned in the West Bank since 1967.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Bank

Dan – the "Professor" is now on the newest blog trying to blame Israel for the northern attacks from Lebanon. Unbelievable.

"Professor" – on of your wives is calling – she wants her lipstick back. It helps her "feel sexy" beneath the burka.

I am amazed at the protestors. Over eleven thousand missiles, that is an 11 with 3 zeros, have been fired at Israel and no protests from other countries. No protests against Hamas for hiding itself and its weapons in populated areas. And poor Dafur, hundreds of thousands have been slaughtered there and no protests. I guess some can get away extermination and some aren't allowed to protect themselves.

This morning I took my son to school. I feel pretty certain he is safe. They showed a picture of a school in Israel with a concrete canopy built over it so that if a missile hit, the kids might not be killed. Might not. I feel sad for the people of Israel. Fanatics of this world kill the weak, children, the elderly, the sick, those unable to hide out.

Hi everyone, how are we doing?

Hey Linda! You should read the previous 50 or so posts and you'll see the "Professor" exposed for the liar that he is – plus lots of humor and jokes...

Hey Kevin, I read the posts before I said hi. I will stay on the other blog since the same people are there.

I suggest everyone read the Charter of Hamas :
http://www.palestinecenter.org/cpap/documents/charter.html

These are the animals we are dealing with here. Here are some quotes from its "Charter":
“Israel will rise and will remain erect until Islam eliminates it as it had eliminated its predecessors. The Islamic World is burning. It is incumbent upon each one of us to pour some water, little as it may be, with a view of extinguishing as much of the fire as he can, without awaiting action by the others.”
“he Islamic Resistance Movement draws its guidelines from Islam; derives from it its thinking, interpretations and views about existence, life and humanity; refers back to it for its conduct; and is inspired by it in whatever step it takes.”
“Hamas regards Nationalism (Wataniyya) as part and parcel of the religious faith. Nothing is loftier or deeper in Nationalism than waging Jihad against the enemy and confronting him when he sets foot on the land of the Muslims.”

[Peace] initiatives, the so-called peaceful solutions, and the international conferences to resolve the Palestinian problem, are all contrary to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement.

Article 28 of the Hamas Charter:
Israel, by virtue of its being Jewish and of having a Jewish population, defies Islam and the Muslims. “Let the eyes of the cowards not fall asleep.”

The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them); until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: O Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him!