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Inside the Middle East
November 28, 2008
Posted: 1304 GMT

gaza

TEL AVIV, Israel (CNN) - The Israeli based Foreign Press Association - which represents international media organizations working in Israel, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip - sharply criticized a ban by the Israeli government on the entry of journalists into the Hamas ruled Gaza Strip.

Speaking at a news conference here, the Foreign Press Association's chairman Steven Gutkin said, "We believe it is essential that the foreign media be allowed to enter the Gaza Strip. The current denial of access amounts to a serious violation of freedom of the press and runs counter to Israel's own claim to be a democracy that respects media liberties." 

Gutkin, who is Jerusalem bureau chief for the Associated Press went on to say that "the denial of access sharply curtails the free flow of information from Gaza to Israelis and the rest of the world. " 

Israeli journalists have been denied access to the Gaza Strip as have all Israeli citizens since the start of the second Palestinian intifada or uprising which began in September of 2000, for their own safety, according to security officials. But the barring of international media into the Gaza Strip is unprecented.     

The official reasons given are that it is a security related ban. However members of the international media have had access to Gaza even during heavy combat in the past and some journalists are questioning the reasoning behind the Israeli ban.

A spokesman for Israel's Foreign Ministry, Yigal Palmor, told CNN the ban had to do with the safety of the Israeli border workers, "this is not about journalists, this is not about diplomats, this is about the inability to operate when they come under direct fire and direct threat," he said.

He added "the border crossings are being directly targeted by Hamas and other groups which shoot rockets and mortars." 

 Thursday's news conference comes on the heels of legal action taken by the Foreign Press Association to Israel's Supreme Court. The court has given the Israeli government 15 days to explain what legal basis exists for the media ban, 13 days remain.

 It also follows a recent letter sent by the some of the world's largest media organizations to Israel's Prime Minister Ehud Olmert.       

 "We are gravely concerned about the prolonged and unprecedented denial of access to the Gaza Strip for the international media," the organizations wrote "we would welcome an assurance that access to Gaza for international journalists will be restored immediately in the spirit of Israel's long-standing commitment to a free press," the letter stated.

(File photo Getty Images)

Filed under: Gaza •Israel


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dan perman   November 28th, 2008 2:53 pm ET

let the foriegn medis complain, they are all liars and afraid of being harmed by the terrorists anyway, see their failure to report the dancing in the streets of the palestinians after 9/11 after they were threatened by the palestinians.

christine armanpour is the worst anti israeli of all journalists in teh world, nobody vcares if she succeeds to enter gaza or not

in any case, the journalists can eneter from egypt, so why don't they? why don't you, hypocritical journalista? why don't you enter gaza from egypt??

Why not???

Beny   November 28th, 2008 6:11 pm ET

Dan,

I'll tell you why not. Egypt didn't close it's Gaza border...because it rarely opened it!
Before and since that little relief in May, Egypt keeps a sealed border. Completely. But when Israel temporary closes its border following a rocket barrage, whose the oppressive terrorist?!

That's right-US.

http://www.israelibeny.wordpress.com

Dave   November 28th, 2008 7:23 pm ET

The international media is the root of all evil. It creates stories, rather than report on them. It creates controversy, and sells it to the public. The worst kind of filth. The world needs a true media watchdog. Not that freedom of the press should be hindered, but like the right to bare arms, freedom of the press should not be abused; but it is, and it is worse than firing gun.

They should be put in jail in Israel, for what they have done to the country, not just barred from Gaza. They are an evil, banal, and self-righteous group, that have convinced themselves of their own worth, despite knowing better.

dan perman   November 28th, 2008 10:05 pm ET

beny

I was asking a rhetorical question

and you note that neither solomon nor adnan are commenting!!!

ironmen1987   November 29th, 2008 2:22 am ET

the media continues to force feed the world; how to act, what to say, who should get elected, etc... it has reached the point where the media is more powerful than alot of the world governments. this is not a good thing but it will continue to grow even more powerful until governments are nothing more than their pawns.

Debs   November 29th, 2008 5:06 am ET

Gaza is being closed of by egypt and Israel, yes thats true. Why though is Israel being so brutal against the public? You cannot collectivley punish a society, where is the point in that? It is easy for Israel to have the upper hand. The real reason foreign reporters are not liked going into Palestine is because the Israeli forces dont want an audience to what it is doing, especially an international audience. I cannot understand why this issue cannot be resolved! Israel has its state, why cannot the palestinians have theirs? I realise this is a heated topic and it is not black and white!

Salam please

I have read other posts on this blog. All of you should be ashamed of your selves. All the remarks made by everyone is terrible.

Christien Amanpour is actually is good reporter. Have any of you really followed her work?

Beny   November 29th, 2008 10:50 am ET

Has everyone noticed how cnn is more than happy to show Israel's terrible oppressive border shutdown (read my Egypt comment), and fails to show the events that lead to this shutdown, such as 8 soldiers recently wounded by a rocket in Nahal Oz kibbutz.

Debs (are you the same Deborah from before?),

"Israel has its state, why cannot the palestinians have theirs?"

1947 UN partition plan. Offered both people a state. We agreed and resumed building. They, instead, launched a full scale internal and external attack at us.

The last 60 years. All efforts are being made by both sides to establish a Palestinian state as a solution to this bloody conflict. We just aren't as eager to retreat from the towns built on 1967 land.

So tell me Deb, while everyone working so hard on giving them a state, why then do we still get daily rocket and mortar barrages?

Why do countless youngsters are being stopped at the border with an AK-47 or a suicide vest?

dan perman   November 29th, 2008 11:28 am ET

Debs

the press is not let in because all they report is on the suffering of the Palestinians

the suffering of the israelis is never mentioned, or mentioned in passing

during the second lebanon war about 20% of the israeli population lived in cramped shelters for more than a month because of the indiscriminate rocket atatcks by hizbullah

did you ever see a story on their suffereing?

NO

Sderot and the areas around it are under daily rocket and mortar atatck from gaza. bur your press stresses the suffereing of the palestinians, who allow hamas to shoot rockets from schools (documented) and backyards of their living quarters (also documented)

So israel targets these shooting areas, you call it collective punishment

i call what the palestinians are doing collective punishment of both, the israelis and their own people.

israel stated quite openly, 24 hours without rockets and mortars from gaza, and the crossings will be opened.

did the palestinians stop shooting for 24 hours? N O

but you accuse the israelis of covering up

face facts and stop toting the palestinian propaganda line!!!!

hourani   November 29th, 2008 11:30 am ET

i used to say that extremists are essentially arabs and muslims but now i see that among jews there are extremists, terrorists more horrible than nazis
i think people like some of who are writing here will destroy israel rather than building it because they are destroying it morally and ethically

ironmen1987   November 29th, 2008 12:24 pm ET

hourani, if standing up for what is right and protecting the land that belongs to them makes you label them as terrorists then you must be one of those tree huggers that say save the trees but kill the children.. The Israeli government has tried to settle this issue many times but the more they offer to give, the more that is ask of them. even as the arabs talk peace, they sneak in the back door and fire missles and rockets into the civilian population. go cry to your media because they are the only ones that care to listen....

Beny   November 29th, 2008 12:29 pm ET

Hourani,

Extremists of whom you speak are everywhere, madmen whose actions and words are more dangerous than they think (mostly because they don't think at all). Stupidity is not bounded by religion, and Jews are among them.

I'd like to think that no one posting here is one of them (except for the occasional idiotic "nuke 'em all" comments).

The problem here is that some of these extremists, like Hamas or Hizballah, are supported by Arab governments, given weapons and power, and cynically direct the suffering of their own people to hatred at someone else.

Those are the really dangerous ones, and as for the Nazi comparison, the Nazi party grew in the exact same way- on the suffering of Germans, which the Nazis directed towards anti-Semitism.

dan perman   November 29th, 2008 1:30 pm ET

hourani

since you have no idea what nazism is, i assume you are just echoing the hamas charter and the madman from teheran

do you not have a mind of your own, can you not do research and check facts instead of mouthing useless and wrong slogans?

M Ariely   November 29th, 2008 3:56 pm ET

The west media is searching only for instant rating !
Plublishing anti Israeli news is good for instant rating
It is direct intersts between the instant rating and Arab propaganda

Have you seen Arab leaders requiring the following in ARABIS LANGUAGE?
1;Mass antiterrorism demonstartion in Arab world?
2: Arabs political parties antiterrorism agendas and lows forbiting teaching hate?
3:Religios leaders issuing Fatuas and speaches on TV,mosks promoting multicaltural in Arab world?
4:Change in the pillar: Drar el Islam and Dar el Harb
(endless war against infidels leaving non under Islam)
5:Changes in the education curiculum to accept all religions?
6;Arab goverments that are implementing the aboves in their countries and not only delivering vlever speaches in English to the west public?

Have you seen western media repetedly explaining to the public that the aboves are the basics to many conflicts, not only with Israel?

Most likely you have not seen.

Dan Marquez   November 29th, 2008 10:53 pm ET

It appears from the preceding comments and the violence that there are two powerful enemies that seem untouchable: hatred and deception. How can we collectively defeat these enemies?

Solomon   November 30th, 2008 1:22 am ET

M Ariely..Have you seen western media repetedly explaining to the public that the aboves are the basics to many conflicts, not only with Israel?

the reason western Media did not explain that is because these lies of yours never happened.

I dare you to tell me which Arab leader said all that. if westerners do not speak Arabic that does not mean that you can fool them.

Solomon   November 30th, 2008 1:29 am ET

the only reason Israel is denying access to Journalists is because of the crimes against the Palestinians that is committed every day by Israel.
why would Israel want the world to see her crimes in Gaza?

Solomon   November 30th, 2008 1:39 am ET

If I am a Palestinian seeing the picture above of a residential building destroyed by Israeli. I would love to see the day an Israeli building in down town telaviv demolished like that.

Solomon   November 30th, 2008 3:36 am ET

Beny
and fails to show the events that lead to this shutdown, such as 8 soldiers recently wounded by a rocket in Nahal Oz kibbutz.

these soldiers were wounded two days ago the blockade has been in place for weeks.

this should be done more often. that is what the Palestinians should do hit Israeli bases and attack soldiers.

Debs   November 30th, 2008 4:24 am ET

Im sorry, same person as before? I have not commented on this site before.

Debs   November 30th, 2008 4:34 am ET

I think what hourani is trying to say but your not understandind is that extremismists operate on both sides, Israel too has these people. For example the foreign national and Israeli settlers whhich cause trouble. Israel's behaviour is not becoming or honourable. Please feel free hourani to correct me.

The situation between Palestine and Israel is an uttter and mess!

Again, Salam and Shalom to all!

Debs   November 30th, 2008 4:36 am ET

I think what hourani is trying to say but your not understandind is that extremismists operate on both sides, Israel too has these people. For example the foreign national and Israeli settlers whhich cause trouble. Israel's behaviour is not becoming or honourable. Please feel free hourani to correct me.

The situation between Palestine and Israel is an uttter and mess!

Again, Salam and Shalom to all!

Debs   November 30th, 2008 4:39 am ET

I think that what hourani is trying to say that extremism is in all communities. Israel too has these people. Israels behaviour is not becoming or honourable. The situation between Palestine and Israel is an utter mess!

again, Salam and Shalom please!

Debs   November 30th, 2008 4:41 am ET

I appologze to readers. my messages were being duplicated!

dutch   November 30th, 2008 5:37 am ET

Dan, if everyone else is wrong, that must make you right. We have found someone that has all the right answers. So Sport, how do we achieve peace in Israel? What is your plan?

Fawad Ali   November 30th, 2008 8:25 am ET

Only Three crown players are responsible for the conflict in the Middle East,
1) Hasan Nasrallah,
2) Ayatollah Khomeini
3) Iraq’s top clergy
Just pull them out of the equation you will get a peaceful Middle East

Beny   November 30th, 2008 8:42 am ET

Solomon,

"this should be done more often. that is what the Palestinians should do hit Israeli bases and attack soldiers."

Ah, thank you for showing the true path to peace.

Also, where the did you get the idea that this house was destroyed by Israel?!

In fact, most chances are that it has been destroyed in the Hamas-Fatah fighting!

For your information, Hamas-Fatah clashes made more victims and destruction than Israel has since 2005!

Beny   November 30th, 2008 10:17 am ET

Debs,

I'm sorry for confusing you with someone else. There was a commentator called Deborah here earlier, and I thought she returned. Welcome to this blog, and may your posting be fruitful and wise!

Also, as I have said before, I agree with Hourani- Israel has its share of extremists. And yes- the situation here is indeed an utter mess. What I want is to stop the tendecy to blame Israel for this mess and everything that goes wrong!

P.S. You called Israel's behavior "unbecoming and dishonorable". While I oppose many actions of our government, I still disagree with you on this statement.

If you have a specific accusation against Israel, feel free to express it and I will be glad to answer.

miriam   November 30th, 2008 10:47 am ET

There is plenty of footage from Gaza supplied by local journalists, the footage we most often are shown. I guess these pictures are not being transmitted by news organizations deliberately. Technology today is far too advanced to have to blame Israel's security concerns for lack of information.

dan perman   November 30th, 2008 11:33 am ET

"Dan, if everyone else is wrong, that must make you right. We have found someone that has all the right answers. So Sport, how do we achieve peace in Israel? What is your plan?"

sit daown and negotiate. But not "give and take" like so far, the isarelis give and the palestinians take.

the "all or nothing" approach by the palestinians must change.

anything and everything israel has ever offered which fell short of the palestinian/arab demands was rejected by them. there was never ever any proposal by the arabs/palestinians which was aimed at a compromise.

so,I repeat, sit down (without outside interference) and negotiate in real negotiations.

do i make myself clear, Dutch?

sara   November 30th, 2008 1:30 pm ET

CNN are disgusting leftist liars and they always try to hide the truth wehn they know Israel is right...

sara   November 30th, 2008 1:38 pm ET

The world knows there were also attacks at the Chabad House in Mumbai against the jews so dont think you can hide it you liars...very nice how you missed out out on that attack, yup sorry to tell you but the attack was also gainst the jews/israeli's....what liars, its unbelievable'..you know very well that jews would never hurt a fly...only to defend themseles, be shamed of yourselves you liars..

Solomon   November 30th, 2008 2:40 pm ET

dan perman

sit daown and negotiate. But not “give and take” like so far, the isarelis give and the palestinians take

dan. that is the most ridiculous comment I have read on this site.

Israel Gives and the Palestinians take?

is that what you say to your children? I bet that they laugh at you too.

dan perman   November 30th, 2008 3:24 pm ET

Let the foreign press go to Mumbay and report the truth:

Atrocities from the 60-hour ordeal began coming to light Friday night, when Israeli defense minister said in a Channel 1 TV interview that some of the bodies bore signs that they had been bound hand and foot and two Israeli women had been killed hours before the men

The captured terrorist, Azam Amir Kasab told police his group was sent with a specific mission to target Israelis

The nine Jewish victims, including 7 Israelis, represent the largest group of foreign hostages murdered by the Islamist terrorists who held Mumbai under siege from Wednesday, Nov. 29 to Saturday.

The name of Ms Yocheved Harpaz, 59, mother of four from Givitayim joined the four victims from Chabad Center so far identified: Rabbi Gavriel, 29, and Rivka, 28, Holzman, taken hostage in the Chabad Center during their assault on Mumbai Wednesday, Nov. 26.

And Solomon, the palestinians in ALL negotiations asked for all or nothing. this is an irrefutable fact
They have never ever presented and lost the wars, why can't they negotiate?

So again, israel has proposed to give, and all teh palestinians do is take. they take convicted murderers, they take back territory israel vacates (and shoot rockets from there day in and day out).

When have the palestinians ever made a serious compromise offer?

N E V E R

I dare you prove the opposite (and don't start again on the well known 22% bull)

dutch   November 30th, 2008 5:21 pm ET

Dan you say the answer is:

"so,I repeat, sit down (without outside interference) and negotiate in real negotiations"
I think we found something we can agree on! Would'nt you agree with me that the U.S. giving Israel 30 Billion to buy weapons is "interference"?

Debs   November 30th, 2008 5:49 pm ET

Beny,

I am studing ME studies, and I do say everything is a shambles and a mess, What I see is everyone, either Arabs, Jews, Israeli and Palestinian,belong there. It is your home. Palestine does exist. I dont understand though, why it got to the point where more Palestinian land gets taken, The borders that were stablished in 1948 where Israel and Palestine had a fair share between them. Now Palestine has hardly any land left. Jersusalem is supposed to be an international city for all, but latelt Palestinians have been evicted from their homes for settlers. I am not accusing Isarel of anything but I do have questions.

My own personal opinion is that Muslims, Christians and Jews, we are all talking to the same god, we are all human beings. We need to resolve these issues because they do affect us all. We should be concentrating on looking at the common threads that bind us instead of looking for differences that divide us to cause the trouble. We all have one life and should do good with it. When we are called to see our maker, we will be judged on how we treat our fellow humans!

Salam and Shalom to all

Solomon   November 30th, 2008 6:15 pm ET

dan perman.

So again, israel has proposed to give, and all teh palestinians do is take. they take convicted murderers, they take back territory israel vacates (and shoot rockets from there day in and day out)

. typical Zionist racist attitude towards the Palestinians that is the problem in Palestine.

you claim that the Palestinians took every thing. they took convicted murderers . in your opinion this is the problem

I will again give you a lesson about the problem in Palestine

(1)the problem is west bank and Gaza.

(2)its the return or compensation for the refugees they will decide what to choose.
(3) Occupied Jerusalem that is the historic city return to the Palestinians.

(4) the dismantle of Jewish colonies in the west bank.

(5)taking back the Jewish thieves who are living on properties that belong to the Palestinians.

and Yes all of this is on the 22% of the land of Palestine.

talking to people like you and I am sure there are many many of you in occupied Palestine. I will not be surprised that one day Hamas will be pushed aside by a more radical Palestinian Group.

Solomon   November 30th, 2008 6:32 pm ET

dan perman. before starting to attack the UN remember that they are the one that legitimize Israel

The UN General Assembly president sparked Jerusalem's ire after calling for international boycott on Israel.

It a attempt to silence – Israel filed a formal complaint with the United Nations on Tuesday over statements made by UN General Assembly President, Father Miguel d'Escoto Brockmann of Nicaragua, who called for an international boycott of Israel. He is yet another person in a high position calling Israel what it is: an apartheid regime. D'Escoto went on to decry the 'Our Greatest Failure' UN:

'It has been 60 years since some 800,000 Palestinians were driven out of their homes becoming refugees and an uprooted and marginalized people,' Father D'Escoto said, adding that the fact that Palestinians still have no state represents UN's 'greatest failure'.

The United Nations is currently marking its annual International Day of Solidarity with the Palestinian People.

Over the course of two days the General Assembly will host a series of anti-Israel venues, including exhibits on Palestinian suffering and films comparing Israel to the Nazi regime.

The pinnacle of the event will come in the form of a marathon of discussions, to culminate with the passing of six resolutions against Israel. These include ones calling for the right of return of the Palestinians to their homeland.

In his address on Monday d'Escoto said: "Although different, what is being done against the Palestinian people seems to me to be a version of the highest policy of apartheid."

The General Assembly president called on international institutions to boycott Israel and sever its financial ties to the world, and for the imposing of sanctions against Jerusalem.

Beny   November 30th, 2008 6:58 pm ET

Debs,

And here is your answer:
The borders that were given back in 1947 were completely fair as far as I'm concerned. The Jews agreed to the plan, the Arabs did not and attacked us.
Surprisingly, we won. That brought us to the 1949 borders. Again, completely fair borders, and we declared a state.
Even the Arabs lived with it for a while, but then, 1967, they attacked us again.
As with the 1947 war, this one's slogan was also "this will be a total war. Our basic aim is the destruction of Israel..." (Gamal Abdul Nasser in his speech to Egyptian people, 1967).

Here we won big time, and doubled our land.

And now? Well, it's been a while since 1967, and the land is already settled on, towns been built, and so we aren't so keen on getting out of there.

So yes, Palestininians have hardly any land left, but the only one they can thank for this is their own stupid, greedy and bloodthirsty leaders who, through their constant war against us, brought them to this position.

"Palestinians have been evicted from their homes..."
Correction- Israeli Arabs, living in Jerusalem and surrounding villages, build a lot of houses and expansions. This land is under Israeli law, and that means you need a building permit, including proof of your ownership of the land.
They often build without one, however, and that means trouble.

As to why this problem occurs, I can give to reasons:

1)
They mistake the land for Palestinian West Bank land.

2)
Arabs are not obliged by law to pay taxes, and so they don't. This leads to big beaurocracy trouble when you're trying to get a permit, though.

Hope I answered your questions!

Beny   November 30th, 2008 7:16 pm ET

Solomon,

I've noticed, that, once again, you didn't bother to reply to any comment by us, immediately classifying our comments as "Zionist racist attitude..."

This phrase I've encountered many times, usually by people so fed up by constant stream of Arab propaganda lies, that they immediately shut their eyes to any facts that are uncomfortable to them, stating them as "Zionist lies".

Beny   November 30th, 2008 7:42 pm ET

Solomon,

As for your d'Escoto guy. He is widely known for his anti-Semitism (see how he hugged and cheered that megalomaniac monkey Ahmednijad) and I fail to see his authority or experience (being a minister of a poor mesoamerican country and on his current seat for barely a few months) on this subject.

Nevertheless, If you are tired of making up your own lies, I'll gladly reply to d'Escoto's ones:

1)
"800,000 Palestinians" is a completely blown up number. Maybe he's confusing them with the similar amount of Jews that got evicted from the Arab countries in 1948.

2)
The fact that the Palestinians do not yet have a state is not UN's failure.
It is the failure of all the Arab leaders in 1947 who, instead of agreeing to their state as given by the UN, launched a full-scale attack on the Jews. Now they're crying.

3)
"Comparing Israel to the Nazi regime..."
Bull leavings and everyone knows it. What the hell can he tell us of the Nazi regime?! Of its terrors?!
I can give you a first-hand account of the Nazis by my grandmother (though I'd rather not- she's a frail old woman). Nothing in here comes even close to that, and such allegations are stupid, unfounded and very offensive to the thousands of Holocaust survivors living here and their children.

The only thing I can imagine on this planet that mirrors the Holocaust in it's atrocities is the Darfur genocide, being done to Muslims by...guess who? Muslims!

Solomon   November 30th, 2008 7:47 pm ET

Beny.
this one’s slogan was also “this will be a total war. Our basic aim is the destruction of Israel…” (Gamal Abdul Nasser in his speech to Egyptian people, 1967).

this is one of the big lies of Zionism.

Beny I challenge you to give us proof that Nasser said that.

Solomon   November 30th, 2008 8:04 pm ET

Beny

I’ve noticed, that, once again, you didn’t bother to reply to any comment by us, immediately classifying our comments as “Zionist racist attitude

I do not comments on lies you Zionists are well known for trying to take the Palestine issue to a different directions.

I have answered all the questions. but I have yet to see any Israeli poster saying any thing but lies like what you posted in your previous post.

How can some one convince you, if every one that criticize Israel is antisemitic?

when you asked me not to give you any Arab source. I start giving you western sources then you accuse them of being anti semitic.

Beny if you want us to use your sources you are out of luck because we believe that they are anti Arab and anti Muslim and anti any one that critisize Israel.

Solomon   November 30th, 2008 8:23 pm ET

Beny even donkeys? what do you call this?

Fifteen masked Israeli settlers from the illegal outpost of Havat Ma'on attacked three Palestinian shepherds who were grazing their flocks in a valley south of the outpost, and Christian peacemakers who were with them.

The settlers came running down from a ridge above the shepherds, hurling rocks. The shepherds were able to get their flocks away before the rocks injured them.

During the incident, the settlers were able to steal two of the shepherds' donkeys. The settlers killed one donkey with a knife wound in the chest area. They slashed another across the throat, but the donkey survived.

Settlers also hit two internationals from Christian Peacemaker Teams (CPT), who were accompanying the shepherd, with large rocks. One CPTer sustained minor injuries.

dan perman   November 30th, 2008 8:54 pm ET

"It has been 60 years since some 800,000 Palestinians were driven out of their homes becoming refugees and an uprooted and marginalized people"

bullshit, wrong and a lie

dan perman   November 30th, 2008 8:59 pm ET

Herer you are Solomon, the source is hardly Jewish:

The dark warnings of Arab leaders about what would happen to Israel if their forces were to triumph had been all too explicit. Only a week before the outbreak of fighting, Egypt’s president, Gamal Abdel Nasser, had threatened that “this will be a total war. Our basic aim is the destruction of Israel.” And the head of the Palestine Liberation Organization, Ahmed Shukairy, had added to the sense of looming tragedy, “Those native-born Israelis who survive can remain in Palestine. But I estimate that none of them will survive.”[3]

(3. Chesnoff, Klein, and Littell, If Israel Lost the War, front matter.)

from:
eScholarship Editions are published by eScholarship, the California Digital Library
© 2007 The Regents of the University of California

dan perman   November 30th, 2008 9:03 pm ET

"Beny

I do not comments on lies you Zionists are well known for trying to take the Palestine issue to a different directions."

You just gave us a very good and logical reason not to take you seriously, solomon

we will stop commenting on lies you antisemitic anti-zionists are well known for trying to take the "palestine" issue to a differnet directions

Solomon   November 30th, 2008 9:30 pm ET

dan perman

Egypt’s president, Gamal Abdel Nasser, had threatened that “this will be a total war. Our basic aim is the destruction of Israel.

dan you know it is a fabrication and a lie Nassers speeches are well documented . this is part of his speech.

Preparations have already been made. We are now ready to confront Israel. They have claimed many things about the 1956 Suez war, but no one believed them after the secrets of the 1956 collusion were uncovered – that mean collusion in which Israel took part. Now we are ready for the confrontation. We are now ready to deal with the entire Palestine question.
Brothers, we will work for world peace with all the power at our disposal, but we will also hold tenaciously to our rights with all the power at our disposal.

for Israeli posters this is the closest that Nasser came to destroylng Israel . does any one see destruction here?

Solomon   November 30th, 2008 10:23 pm ET

Since 1953, West Germany has paid out more than $65 billion in reparations to the Zionist state and to millions of individual "victims Of Nazism.

when will the Zionist and criminal state of Israel pay their Palestinian victims or give them back their land.

this is the biggest robbery in History the Zionist thieves not only stole the land of the Palestinians they made Europe and America pay hundreds of billions of dollars in Blackmail money.

Debs   December 1st, 2008 1:23 am ET

Thanks Beny,

Some of your comments I dont understand though, If the UN particianed the land in 1948, Why where borders moved in the fist place? If the land was Palestine, regardless of who started what and when, why did Israel take land from the Palestinians? The rest of your answers answered some of my questions.

It still is upsetting to see some of the comments on this blog. I wish people would spend less energy blaming each other. I have no doubt that alot of the troubles in the ME are rooted in your region. I am no pacifist, i believe that if someone attacks you, or tries to take your land, no matter who you are you have a right to defend yourselves. and I also know that this is an extremely complicated subject.

I would like to ask everyone reading and partaking in this blog to, instead of pointing fingers of blame and insulting each other to actually think of how to acheive peace for all, Palestinians and Israelis.

Can anyone answer that?

As I have said Muslims, Christians and Jews, we have a common thread which joins us, we all look to the same god.

Beny, Soloman and all readers
Salam Aleikum, Shalom, For the sake of the future generations of your countries and humanity.

M Ariely   December 1st, 2008 4:55 am ET

Solomon : I dare you to tell me which Arab leader said all that. if westerners do not speak Arabic that does not mean that you can fool them.

100% CORRECT STATEMENT.

No Arab leaders are saying those in Arabic language-this is the point

Your statement is a perfect example of misleading of the west;
Speaking to the west one language and to Arabs a different one.

WHAT IS IMPORTEND IS WHAT THEY ARE SAING IN ARABIC

Following few examples easy to be traced by Arabs
1:Referance:http://www.abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=6331697&page=1.
I'm telling the kuffar [i.e., infidels], the English People, the American people… We're coming for you! We're going to exterminate you all
2: Referance Kuwaiti Islamist Dr. Sa'd Al-'Inzi, aired on Al-Rai TV on December 10, 2007:
Homosexuals Should Be Tortured in Public Squares – Death is Too Good For Them
3: Abd Al-Bari 'Atwan, interview aired on BBC Arabic TV on November 7, 2008:
In an Arab Country, Obama Would Be Told, 'You Are a Slave'; 'We Arabs Are The Epitome of Racism'
4:daily Al-Ayyam, October 25, 2008
Christians are being persecuted not only in Iraq, but in most Arab countries, regardless of their numbers there. They are subjected to every possible kind of discrimination, as well as expulsion. Today, this problem is also rampant in Egypt, Lebanon, Algeria, and Palestine

If the Arab leaders are not acting to change and solve the following issues it is clear that they serve their inspirations
1;Mass antiterrorism demonstartion in Arab world?
2: Arabs political parties antiterrorism agendas and lows forbiting teaching hate?
3:Religios leaders issuing Fatuas and speaches on TV,mosks promoting multicultural in Arab world?
4:Change in the pillar: Drar el Islam and Dar el Harb
(endless war against infidels leaving non under Islam)
5:Changes in the education curriculum to accept all religions?
6;Arab governments that are implementing the above in their countries and not only delivering clever speeches in English to the west public

Solomon   December 1st, 2008 5:31 am ET

I challenged some pro Israel posters who lie about every thing to show proof of their accusations that Nasser call for the destruction of Israel

M Ariely. instead of answering you came with lots of rubbish about anti terrorism , homosexuals ,and infidel and you quote abdel bari atwan which is another big lie.

as I told beny.I do not comments on lies you Zionists are well known for trying to take the Palestine issue to a different directions. and you proved my point.

by the way did you read my post about the 15 terrorist settlers who attacked the Shepherds and the Christian peace makers and killed a donkey. even donkeys are not safe from these criminals.

\

Solomon   December 1st, 2008 5:41 am ET

Jewish settlers are terrorizing Palestinians with impunity, attacking children on their way to school and destroying farmers' trees and crops, a U.N. expert on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict said in a report.

"It seems that settlers are able to terrorize Palestinians and destroy their trees and crops with impunity,"

Abdullah Yusuf is too afraid to climb the rocky terraces beyond his village and see the damage for himself.

"They'll kill me," he said, waving a hand at the container homes on a neighbouring hill. "If they can do that to trees as old as the Roman times, they will not hesitate to do it to me."

The annual olive harvest in the occupied territories has once again been rocked by Israeli settlers and their assaults on Palestinian pickers.

Solomon   December 1st, 2008 5:51 am ET

Abdel Bari Atwan in an answer to a question said.
: Our position is very clear; we believe that the Israelis are occupying Arab territories. We support the Palestinian struggle to set up an independent, viable Palestinian state. We are critical of the intervention of the United States, in particular because they keep Israel above international law

So we are struggling against Israeli lobby which attempts to tarnish anybody who tries to tell the truth.

When Robert Fisk wrote about Israeli atrocities he received more than three thousand abusive emails. When Marie Colvin of the Sunday Times wrote an article about the battleground of the suicide bomber she received more than four hundred emails. When [Brian] Sewell, who is a writer for the Evening Standard, wrote about Israeli atrocities and how Israel is behaving outrageously without any control, the Evening Standard was threatened with a boycott from the Jewish community. They stopped advertisements, they stopped subscriptions and they said: “We’ll fight you,” simply because of that..

miriam   December 1st, 2008 6:28 am ET

Debs
Palestine was the name given by the Romans to one of their provinces. The word is derived from the Hebrew word used in the bible to describe the coastal area which was inhabited by a group who had arrived from an island in the Mediterranean, possibly Crete. Subsequent conquerers of the Holy Land also used this name but the borders always differed. After the Crusader rule, Palestine was no longer a designated region, although the name was used to describe the Holy Land on the east and west sides of the River Jordan. Under the Ottomans who ruled until WW1, the area was part of the province of Syria, not to be confused with modern-day Syria. After WW1, Britain was given the Mandate over Palestine, both east and west of the Jordan which they subsequently split into the eastern Transjordan and the western Palestine, the former to be an Arab state, the latter to become a national home for the Jews. This decision was controversial and many commissions were set up to settle disagreements. In 1946, Transjordan became the KIngdom of Jordan, ruled by the Hashemites who originally came from Saudi Arabia. In 1947 the UN decided to further partition the western side of Palestine into another Arab state and a Jewish state. The Jews accepted the partition despite concerns that their state would be difficult to secure, significant Jewish population centres would not be included, Arab populations would be included, and that Jerusalem, Judaism's most holy site, would be in an international zone disconnected from the Jewish state. The Arabs rejected the plan, prefering no Jewish presence at all and began a war.
I hope this explains to you that there were no previous borders and that anyone living in the whole of Mandatory Palestine, Christians, Jews and Muslims, were not living in a Palestinian State. Israel has not stolen land from the Arabs since the Arabs have never accepted any of the plans to give them land. Private land-owners who have genuine deeds of ownership are able to prove in court their claims to certain areas but many don't own the land they work on and are descendents of workers who were abandoned by Arab land-owners who sold their private holdings to Jews during the last century.

Beny   December 1st, 2008 6:58 am ET

Debs,

May or April 1948, after seeing that the internal riots failed, Hajj Amin al Husseini called for the Palestinians to leave, and return after we are crushed by Syria and Egypt. A large portion left with him. Those are today's Gazans. Taking into account the following factors:

1)
A lot of Jewish refugees are soon to come from Europe. They need land.

2)
After taking, with great effort, a lot of important strategic positions that made the Arab armies retreat, giving it all back would return the Arabs to their pre-war position, with no promise that we would not be attacked again.

3)
With Arab numbers severely dwindled and leadership gone, as well as the fact that the remaining Arabs agreed to become citizens of Israel, free of taxes and military service, chances for a new movement to create a Palestinian state seemed slim.

4)
The UN partition plan gave us about as much land as the Arabs, but 60% of it was the arid Negev desert.

The Israeli leadership decided to hold on to the taken territory.

Beny   December 1st, 2008 7:12 am ET

As for your Big Question of Peace, here is my idea:

1)
Palestinians will be given a very wide strip of land in the Negev desert (which was originally given to us) for territorial continuity between Gaza and the West Bank. The West Bank territory will be slightly expanded to include neighboring Arab villages. Golan and other 1967 lands remain ours.

2)
Israel, as well as other UN countries, will supply the new state with unlimited power, medicine, money to cultivate the desert, and other needed resources at first.

3)
Later, should the Palestinian state still need help, it will get it from Arab countries or whoever's willing.

4)
East Jerusalem is an international city, ruled by a Christian-Muslim-Jewish triumvate. Free access to everyone and UN police force. West Jerusalem houses no holy places and has a huge Jewish majority, so it'll remain Israeli.

5)
Israeli Arabs, who decide to leave their homes and settle in the Palestinian state, will be hugely compensated. No one will be forced.

6)
Palestians will have a choice: closed borders with Israel, or rigorous security at every possible checkpoint.

In Return:

1)
ALL armed struggle and terrorism will cease immediately. IDF will in return stop it's incursions into Gaza. Wanted terrorists will be delivered to our hands to face justice (and yes that includes Hamas and Hizballah).

2)
ALL Arab countries will immediately recognize Israel and sign a peace treaty. Close their borders to terrorist organizations.

3)
Violation of the aforesaid, or any act of aggression against Israel will entitle it to any retaliation act we see fit. For example- a rocket shot at us by terrorists form Syrian land, we give Syria 72 hours to bring us the criminals, or else invade in attempt to wipe out the terrorists at their source.

It means- the responsibility for stopping terrosim lies solely on the Arab countries.

Debs   December 1st, 2008 7:24 am ET

Thanks Beny and Miriam,

Both of you have given some valuable info on this subject. Miriam inparticular, your info is impartial, fair and balanced.

Solomon, I would appreciate some feedback..

Salam and Shalom to all.

Debs   December 1st, 2008 7:33 am ET

Beny,

You said that resposibility for stopping terrorism lies soley on Arab countries. Israel has extremists as well. Surely everyone needs to acknowledge and deal with these people.

You also said that you would give syria 72 hours to hand over terrorists or face invasion. I'm sorry but I disagree with that. You cant take it upon yourself to invade a counrty, You cant attack a country and put the civilian population at risk, Look at Iraq, that war is a complete mess. The war there has been nothing more that a terrible wast of life. To Invade a country is aggressive and should be avoided. It does not help the sitatiion and will only create far more problems than solve anything.

I do appeciate that you have your thoughts and I do respect that.

Debs   December 1st, 2008 7:40 am ET

Beny,

Sorry, about Jerusalem, I agreed when you said to keep it international and have a UN police force, That is sensible. However you then said that East Jersusalen should be International and West Jerusalem should contain no holy places, contain a large number of Jewish population and keep it within Israel. I think that sounds confusing...When it is said that Jerusalem should be an International city, All of it should be international with the UN police force. Dividing the city isnt a good idea.

Salam and Shalom to all

Fawad Ali   December 1st, 2008 8:03 am ET

Debs,

Just look at the irony, Arabs are ruled by dictators for decades. These dictators are implicated for killing thousands, and orchestrating regional-operations to carry out sever- destruction. Today Arabs wanted freedom from dictators and Iranian-style-theocracies the same way Jews and Gypsies wanted from Nazis. The difference was Jews and Gypsies understood the reality that they had to seek help of others, including their long time adversary, the Soviets. Today Arabs finding themself facing the same question: Should they stop idiotic irrationality that “Arab countries’ sovereignty is top priority” or do the right thing- as recently Iraqis did- Iraqis wanted Americans to invade Iraq and topple Saddam Hussein. If Arabs want freedom, it requires somebody free them, which required someone (probably Israelis) entering their cities and taking-out their rulers.

Debs   December 1st, 2008 9:30 am ET

Fawad,

Yes you are true when you say that Iraqis wanted to free them under the brutal regime of husein, however the way Bush handled this and the dishonestly in which was later found regarding the truth of the invasion cannot be denied.

The Iraqi war is disasterous, the invasion has now attracted every extremist within the region. These terrorist are targeting civilians, they are bombing market places, schools and mosques, where does it end? The coaltion military deaths are in ther thousands and civilian deaths are in their hundreds of thousands. Bush's action has forever damaged Iraq. We are now left with the question of if we stay, world relations will decline and if we leave the Iraqi civilians will be left defenceless as their security infrastructure, albeit is credible, but it cant stand on its own yet. You see the vicious cycle of violence continues. Saying that there has been some positive changes, Kids can go to school for an education, University lecturers are not being jailed and tortured for being too liberal ect.... but overall there has not been a major change for the best.

Saddam Hussein had to be removed for the sake of humanity in his country, he terrorised his own people. But did we have the right to hand him over to be executed? I feel this only inflamed a combustable situation. We must be better than these extremists.

I fully agree with you that there have been plenty of dictators in the Arab world, very dangerous ones,

We must also remain within International Law, Bush ignored the UN and blatently defied international law when he invaded Iraq. Iraq did not attack us. Personaly I dont think Hussein would have and the question of th WMD still have to be found. Iran should have been the one to watch.

I dont agree with what you said reagrding Arab Countries top priority is sovreignty, there are plenty of countries outside of the Arab world that have a sovreign. I dont think that is the root problem.

Salam and Shalom to all

Beny   December 1st, 2008 10:24 am ET

Debs,

1)
About Jerusalem. You misunderstood me. West Jerusalem is Jewish, built in 1948 while East was still Jordanian. It has no holy places and the population there now is majorly Jewish. That's the situation now, and so I see no reason anyone would want us to give it up. It is very much like Tel-Aviv. Dividing the city is not the best idea, but neither is giving up a big, Jewish city that is of no value to anyone else.

East Jerusalem is the ancient, holy city which, while I would never give to any Arab state (bad experiences from its Jordanian rule, besides it is one of the 2 holiest places on earth for Jews) I am willing to accept its importance to all 3 religions and the wish for it not to be under direct rule of any state.

2)
I admit I overexaggerated my "72 hours till invasion" comment. I agree (and most Israeli generals with me) that such an invasion is dangerous to both sides and should be avoided as much as possible. I merely wanted to stress my point that Israel should be entitled to any retaliation act it sees fit, even far-fetched, stupid and dangerous ones like that, which I hope will not be done.

3)
As I have said before, Israel does have these extremists. Whatever they say, as stupid as it might be, is protected under the freedom of speech. When they turn to actions, however, such as beating poor Palestinian farmers, they are persecuted and imprisoned.
In Arab countries, however, those extremists are organized, supplied and glorified, and as such they become lethal terrorists. I want this to stop. And since they operate from within Arab territory, and are currently supplied and sponsored by Arab states, I see it as their responsibility.

4)
Just a little information on Saddam:
He almost had a WMD ready in 1987 to destroy us. Our air force took care of that.
In the book "point of no return", Dr. Ronen Bergman, military historian and former commander, says that several scientists were gathering in Iraq to renew Saddam's WMD program. Our Mossad offered the CIA to take care of it quietly, but Bush, not well known for his tactical decisions, launched a full-scale invasion.
As a result those scientists escaped to Iran, and the rest is history.

Fawad Ali   December 1st, 2008 11:14 am ET

Hey benny you first point is quite over the top

The future of Jerusalem can’t be decided by either parties, Palestinians or Israelis. Since both sides are emotionally, culturally, historically and religiously brain washed. There is a need of a rational thought, which should exhibit neutrality and offer realistic solution. There are number of people who possess both of these qualities. Former President Jimmy Carter, President-Elect Obama, and some Liberal Israelis, can offer best solution of this Dead-Lock. One thing is clear the right division or a solution for Jerusalem will come with lot of people on both sides carrying grudges.

Solomon   December 1st, 2008 3:07 pm ET

Debs

Solomon, I would appreciate some feed back.

for peace to be achieved there has to be an international body to Guarantee that peace. the only body we have is the UN and all states are members of this body.

this is what the UN says about the problem.

resolution 194 dec 11 1948

* Article 7: protection and free access to the Holy Places
* Article 8: demilitarization and UN control over Jerusalem
* Article 9: free access to Jerusalem
* Article 11: calls for the return of refugees

resolution242 nov 22 1967

1) Withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories of recent conflict.

2) Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgement of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every state in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force.

B) Affirms further the necessity for:

1) Guaranteeing freedom of navigation through international waterways in the area.

2) Achieving a just settlement of the refugee problem.

3) Guaranteeing the territorial inviolability and political independence of every state in the area through measures including the establishment of demilitarized zones

UN Resolution 465

1) Affirming once more that the fourth Geneva convention relative to the protection of civilian persons in time of war of 12 August 1949 is applicable to the Arab territories occupied by Israel since 1967, including Jerusalem.

2) .Determines that all measures taken by Israel to change the physical character, demographic composition, institutional structure of status of the Palestinian and other Arab territories occupied since 1967, including Jerusalem, or any part thereof, have no legal validity and that Israel's policy and practices of setting parts of its population and new Immigrants in those territories constitute a flagrant violation of the fourth Geneva convention relative to the protection of civilian persons in time of war and also constitute a serious obstruction to achieving a comprehensive, just and lasting peace in the Middle East.

3) Strongly deplores the continuation and persistence of Israel in pursuing those policies and practices and calls upon the government and people of Israel to rescind those measures, to dismantle the existing settlements and in particular to cease, on an urgent basis, the establishment, construction and planning of settlements in the Arab territories occupied since 1967, including Jerusalem.

4) .Calls upon all states not to provide Israel with any assistance to be used specifically in connection with settlements in the Occupied Territories.

5) Requests the commission to continue to examine the situation relating to the settlements in the Arab territories occupied since 1967, including Jerusalem,

debs this is the road to peace what Beny is suggesting is a call for continues wars.

you can see by your self now how the pro Israeli posters attack UN and every one else.

Beny   December 1st, 2008 4:33 pm ET

Solomon,

You quote UN resolutions, well:

resolution 181, 1947:

"It is a fact that both people have historic roots in Palestine..." to counter your "what do we have in this land" comments.

Basically, it was a resolution to create two peaceful states in Palestine. Guess who violated it?!

Now for your quotes:

1)
"protection and free access to the Holy Places", "free access to Jerusalem"-

Yeah?! Like when the Jordanians gave free access to East Jerusalem when they controlled it until 1967?!

2)
"Guaranteeing freedom of navigation through international waterways in the area."-

Like when Nasser closed the Suez canal completely during his rule?!

3)
"Calls upon all states not to provide Israel with any assistance to be used specifically in connection with settlements in the Occupied Territories."

Yes. And the suicide bombings by those same refugees (most of their families left by free will, btw) are a real help!

4)"...respect for and acknowledgement of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every state in the area and their right to live in peace..."

Every state, that is, except Israel.

'Cause so many Arab attacks, from invasions (1948, 1967, 1973) to terrorists (the Intifada and to this day) to rockets and mortars just scream out "we respect your right to live in peace!"

"what Beny is suggesting is a call for continues wars.

Because sure, wanting you to stop attacking us just shows what a bloodthirsty warmonger I am :)

Solomon   December 1st, 2008 4:48 pm ET

.
beny.

the right of return to Palestinian refugees and the occupation of Jerusalem.

you did not comment on that.

Beny.you are dreaming if you think military power is the way to secure Israel.

military power did not secure the white settlers in south Africa and it did not secure the French settlers in Algeria.what makes you think that military power will secure the Jewish settlers in Palestine?

Solomon   December 1st, 2008 6:27 pm ET

Beny.

it seems to me that you ask the question and then you answer these questions.

when are you going to change these tactics and start answering others Questions?

Beny you said

East Jerusalem is an international city, ruled by a Christian-Muslim-Jewish triumvate. Free access to everyone and UN police force. West Jerusalem houses no holy places and has a huge Jewish majority, so it’ll remain Israeli.

the UN said Jerusalem the whole of Jerusalem it did not say east or west Jerusalem.

if you think that west Jerusalem is not included then you should change the name of West Jerusalem.

Beny   December 1st, 2008 8:01 pm ET

Solomon,

When are you going to answer whay I've said in the last, well, month?

Time for you to change tactics from blind, unbased accusations to actually having a normal discussion?

1)
"right of return of Palestinian refugees..."

1a)
They are not refugees. We did not kick anyone out of their homes. We settled peacefully beside them. They tried to destroy us (1947). They failed, and left willingly. They are not refugees by any definition I know.

1b)
Regardless of that, they have been allowed to return (1993 Oslo pact). They now live in Gaza and the West Bank. So endeth their "exile".

1c)
If you want to talk about refugees, remember the 800,000 Jews expelled from Iran and Iraq in 1948. I don't see them being allowed to return anytime soon, do you?

2)
"occupation of Jerusalem" is a big fat lie. All Jerusalem citizens have the blue Israeli ID. Jerusalem has been Israeli for 41 years now. Your long-ago memories of a Jordanian Jerusalem are nothing but a fantasy. Unless...

Unless you want to call any terrirory ever taken in war anywhere as "occupied", but then – oh boy, how many Arab-occupied land is there!

Beny   December 1st, 2008 8:08 pm ET

Solomon,

Again, you show your staggering ignorance of local history.

When the UN said "Jerusalem" there was no west Jerusalem.
West Jerusalem was built in the 19 years that East Jerusalem was under Jordanian rule (btw, it was supposed to be international-so much for upholding UN regulations).

It has little to do with East except being adjacent, has no holy sites, and a huge Jewish majority.
The fact that you still want us to give it up (while barely any Arabs live there and it is not holy) just shows the incredible greed of the Arab leaders that led to their downfall in 1948.

Beny   December 1st, 2008 8:14 pm ET

And finally,

"Beny.you are dreaming if you think military power is the way to secure Israel."

Solomon, you are dreaming if you think Israel will ever give up anything without assurance for its security.

And I'm not talking about peace treaties, either, which are equivalent (as far as the Arabs were upholding them) to less than toilet paper.

I'm talking about real military incentives to prevent future invasions. And if you look into your history, you'll see that they defended Israel better than any piece of paper.

Solomon   December 1st, 2008 8:27 pm ET

Beny. Go back and read all the posts you will find out that all your accusation was answered as far as Questions you dont have any .

in all UN resolution I have not seen any talking about Jewish refugees in Arab countries.

are you saying that the Falasha have been thrown out by Arabs? are you telling us that the Shah in Iran throw the Jews out, he is not even an Arab.

again I say to you prove your accusations.

by the way all the Jews that left their homes because of Zionist promises to them are welcome back to their countries that is the policy of all Arab governments. when will Israel allow the Palestinians to go back to their homes?

Beny .. as Abraham Lincoln.said.

You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time."

Solomon   December 1st, 2008 8:34 pm ET

Beny

And if you look into your history, you’ll see that they defended Israel better than any piece of paper.

if you think history started in 1948 then you should go back to school and start again reading History.

Solomon   December 1st, 2008 8:57 pm ET

beny this is a lesson in history for you.

The Jews of Iraq

Article by Naeim Giladi

An Iraqi Jew tells his story of Zionist activities that Jews from Islamic lands did not emigrate willingly to Israel; that, to force them to leave, Jews killed Jews; and that, to buy time to confiscate ever more Arab lands, Jews on numerous occasions rejected genuine peace initiatives from their Arab neighbors.

I write this article for the same reason I wrote my book: to tell the American people, and especially American Jews, that Jews from Islamic lands did not emigrate willingly to Israel; that, to force them to leave, Jews killed Jews; and that, to buy time to confiscate ever more Arab lands, Jews on numerous occasions rejected genuine peace initiatives from their Arab neighbors. I write about what the first prime minister of Israel called "cruel Zionism." I write about it because I was part of it.

My Story

Of course I thought I knew it all back then. I was young, idealistic, and more than willing to put my life at risk for my convictions. It was 1947 and I wasn't quite 18 when the Iraqi authorities caught me for smuggling young Iraqi Jews like myself out of Iraq, into Iran, and then on to the Promised Land of the soon-to-be established Israel.

I was an Iraqi Jew in the Zionist underground. My Iraqi jailers did everything they could to extract the names of my co-conspirators. Fifty years later, pain still throbs in my right toe-a reminder of the day my captors used pliers to remove my toenails. On another occasion, they hauled me to the flat roof of the prison, stripped me bare on a frigid January day, then threw a bucket of cold water over me. I was left there, chained to the railing, for hours. But I never once considered giving them the information they wanted. I was a true believer.

My preoccupation during what I refer to as my "two years in hell" was with survival and escape. I had no interest then in the broad sweep of Jewish history in Iraq even though my family had been part of it right from the beginning. We were originally Haroons, a large and important family of the "Babylonian Diaspora." My ancestors had settled in Iraq more than 2,600 years ago-600 years before Christianity, and 1,200 years before Islam. I am descended from Jews who built the tomb of Yehezkel, a Jewish prophet of pre-biblical times. My town, where I was born in 1929, is Hillah, not far from the ancient site of Babylon

Solomon   December 1st, 2008 9:04 pm ET

Article by Naeim Giladi

About 125,000 Jews left Iraq for Israel in the late 1940s and into 1952, most because they had been lied to and put into a panic by what I came to learn were Zionist bombs. But my mother and father were among the 6,000 who did not go to Israel. Although physically I never did return to Iraq-that bridge had been burned in any event-my heart has made the journey there many, many times. My father had it right

I was disillusioned at what I found in the Promised Land, disillusioned personally, disillusioned at the institutionalized racism, disillusioned at what I was beginning to learn about Zionism's cruelties. The principal interest Israel had in Jews from Islamic countries was as a supply of cheap labor, especially for the farm work that was beneath the urbanized Eastern European Jews. Ben Gurion needed the "Oriental" Jews to farm the thousands of acres of land left by Palestinians who were driven out by Israeli forces in 1948.

And I began to find out about the barbaric methods used to rid the fledgling state of as many Palestinians as possible. The world recoils today at the thought of bacteriological warfare, but Israel was probably the first to actually use it in the Middle East. In the 1948 war, Jewish forces would empty Arab villages of their populations, often by threats, sometimes by just gunning down a half-dozen unarmed Arabs as examples to the rest. To make sure the Arabs couldn't return to make a fresh life for themselves in these villages, the Israelis put typhus and dysentery bacteria into the water wells.

Uri Mileshtin, an official historian for the Israeli Defense Force, has written and spoken about the use of bacteriological agents. According to Mileshtin, Moshe Dayan, a division commander at the time, gave orders in 1948 to remove Arabs from their villages, bulldoze their homes, and render water wells unusable with typhus and dysentery bacteria.

Beny do you need more lessons in History?

Debs   December 2nd, 2008 1:12 am ET

Thanks Solomon, and Beny,

Beny
Firstly,

If the UN has stipulated that the whole of Jersualem was to be International, why then has it been so divided. I can understand your view but surely it would be better if it was undivided? As Fawad said it would only cause grudgebearing. Regardless of what part was built when, it should all become international.

I do whole heartedly agree with you when you say that Israel has s right to defend itself if it is attacked. Everyone should have that right.

I do not know if you were in the military at all, maybe you could answer me this, Soloman made some comments regarding some UN resolutions,

1. "The withdrawal of troops from areas of recent conflict"

I think he may have been talking about the West Bank and Gaza, although I do not support in any way terrorism, why does Israel have troops in these areas? If you are looking for "terrorists" why not co-work with the Palestian Authority to catch these people instead of having a full occupying force there?

This type of situation for the Palestinian population will breed resentment and hate, especially the kids. It then gives the terrorist a chance "in their delusional minds" to go out and say 'this is why we do what we do". They then go onto brainwashing young traumatised and vulnerable kids and teenagers who have known nothing but coflict and they see soldiers on the street that think they hate them and want to brutalise them.

The troops shouldnt really be there, I do agree with Soloman on that point.

Secondly,

As with all wars, there are soldiers of all sides who commit hanious and hideous crimes, women are raped young kids are tortured and innocent people incarcerated etc. There is no denying that Israeli some Israeli soldiers have been quilty of crimes, but you have to look at the big picture, Hamas are not doing Palestinians any favours either if Hamas really cared so much for their people they would not fire rockets into civilian territory in Israel. I cannot comment on

Debs   December 2nd, 2008 1:45 am ET

Sorry,

I cant comment on Fatah, I dont know much about them. Hamas is also in violation of international law. They cannot attack innocent Israeli citizens that have not done anything to harm Palestinians.The whole situation is a mess beyond belief and do not know how this will be sorted..

As with Saddam Husein, I think that man was delusional as well but I have reservation mainly because I feel some times government will twist or exaggerate the facts to keep trouble stirring.

Soloman,

You have raised some viable points as I have stated above, However I do think the blame game attitude between everyone has to stop. I have always supported civilised means instead of aggression to solve these type of issues, I think most people would aggree.

I do also whole heartedly support a Palestinian state. They too deserve along with Israel should be recognised. The Israeli military have some bad soldiers which do terrible things, just as some , Americanan soldiers and British soldiers have done terrible things in Iraq such as the prisoner abuse scandals. I emphisize on SOME as thes soldiers do not represent them as a whole.

Israeli citizens also live in fear of terrorists themselves. Everyone is suffering and everyone has people in their community which keep the conflicy going.

As I have said many many times before, Muslims, christians and jews, we all have a common thread that binds us.

Salam and Shalom to all

Debs   December 2nd, 2008 3:57 am ET

Solomon,

I was also interested in your comment about Uri Mileshin, the historian who said that in 1948, IDF soldiers were asking Arabs to leave their homes, typhus and disintry.

So far I have been taught, on a positive note that the ME is a diverse region and that many different races and religions share the land. This should be a credit to yourselves who live there.

I have also been taught about the severe problems facing the region and was disturbed deeply with that coment, Israel has done some terrible things, but poisoning water with deadly diseases? It sounds like something hitler would have done. To find out my own info, where are you getting it...

Solomon   December 2nd, 2008 4:14 am ET

Debs.

Mileshtin was quoted by the Israeli daily, Hadashot, in an article published August 13, 1993. The writer, Sarah Laybobis-Dar, interviewed a number of Israelis who had knowledge of the use of bacteriological weapons in the 1948 war. Mileshtin said bacteria was used to poison the wells of every village emptied of its Arab inhabitants

Debs   December 2nd, 2008 4:19 am ET

Soloman

If this is true, then that type of behaviour is unforgivable. Why is this not spoken about then?

Salam and Shaolom to all

Solomon   December 2nd, 2008 4:21 am ET

Debs

So far I have been taught, on a positive note that the ME is a diverse region and that many different races and religions share the land. This should be a credit to yourselves who live there.

yes you are right the middle east has always been like that until the Zionist came and poison every thing.

Alexis de Tocqueville once observed that it is easier for the world to accept a simple lie than a complex truth. Certainly it has been easier for the world to accept the Zionist lie that Jews were evicted from Muslim lands because of anti-Semitism, and that Israelis, never the Arabs, were the pursuers of peace. The truth is far more discerning: bigger players on the world stage were pulling the strings.

These players, I believe, should be held accountable for their crimes, particularly when they willfully terrorized, dispossessed and killed innocent people on the altar of some ideological imperative.

I believe, too, that the descendants of these leaders have a moral responsibility to compensate the victims and their descendants, and to do so not just with reparations, but by setting the historical record straight.

That is why I established a panel of inquiry in Israel to seek reparations for Iraqi Jews who had been forced to leave behind their property and possessions in Iraq. That is why I joined the Black Panthers in confronting the Israeli government with the grievances of the Jews in Israel who came from Islamic lands. And that is why I have written my book and this article: to set the historical record straight.

We Jews from Islamic lands did not leave our ancestral homes because of any natural enmity between Jews and Muslims. And we Arabs-I say Arab because that is the language my wife and I still speak at home-we Arabs on numerous occasions have sought peace with the State of the Jews. And finally, as a U.S. citizen and taxpayer, let me say that we Americans need to stop supporting racial discrimination in Israel and the cruel expropriation of lands in the West Bank, Gaza, and the Golan Heights.

Debs   December 2nd, 2008 5:17 am ET

Solomon, Salam Aleikum,

I understand everything that you say, I do agree with you on alot of things, Firstly you have asked for a public enquiry for the repatriation of jews Iraq. That is hounorable, To acknowledging all wrongs and attempting to fix them is the first steps to peace.

We must, and I hope that you will agree with me that when I say we must do more for peace. please. My future employment when I am finished my ME/Arabic degree will be in the ME. I so hope to live and work in a region where there is peace.

I also hope that I will be in in region where there is A Free and Prosperous Palestinian state along with Israel.

Israel has done many wrongs but so has everyone? I am hoping beny will reply to what I have said. I have kept myself open minded on this subject as everyone has a right to be there.

Your comment regarding the Golan heights, That was Syrian territory? This one subject which I am schetchy about, I would appreciate if maybe yourself and other readers could comment.

Solomon, If you dont mind could you tell me the name of your book. I would be interested i reading it. If you dont want to post on this site, let me know and I will give you my email and you can mail me title.

Salam and Shalom to all

Beny   December 2nd, 2008 8:48 am ET

Debs,

1)
About the Golan heights.
Originally it was given to Syria by France, but Syria used it to build miliitary outposts and forced the Golan citizens into serving the Syrian army.
These outposts were used in 1967 to invade Israel from. Israel took the area in 1967 and it is now a complete part of Israel these 41 years (twice longer than it had been Syrian). Its residents are no different from Israeli citizens anywhere.

Another reason for keeping the Golan is that it is adjacent to the Kinneret lake, half of Israel's fresh water source. While Golan was Syrian (but the Kinneret was Israeli) gangs from Syria constantly sabotaged Israeli pipelines.

Solomon,

1)
I talk of Jewish refugees, and you first dismiss them as not being in any UN decision, then tell me to give proof.
I gave you a link. If an opinion article is not proof for you, then neither is yours. If it is, please take the time to read it.

2)
Please give me too the title of the book you mentioned.
I find it extremely surprising that the IDF, being very poor and disorganized in 1948, possessed biological weapons.
I've been to quite a few lectures about IDF history (commander's attempts to inspire motivation) and never heard of such a thing.

3)
Did you establish the inquiry panel, are you quoting someone else? Please clarify.

4)
"all the Jews that left their homes because of Zionist promises to them are welcome back to their countries that is the policy of all Arab governments"
What?!
I find it hard to believe you. The Irani government, intent on destroying Israel, will give Iranian citizenship to Israeli Jews whose ancestors were born in Iran?

Beny   December 2nd, 2008 9:18 am ET

Debs,

1)
"I can understand your view but surely it would be better if it was undivided? "

That is the choice of the West Jerusalem citizens and not ours. Whether to move from Israeli rule to international or to divide and remain Israeli. Kind of a "patriotism vs ancient heritage" choice.

2)
"the Palestian Authority to catch these people instead of having a full occupying force there?"

a)
IDF incursions in there are rare. It's not the constant occupying force you think it is. Most of it is at the border, rigorously checking everyone for concealed weapons.

b)
Most people in the West Bank openly support and sympathize with the terrorists. What do you think will happen when their ruler starts persecuting their heroes?
Mahmoud Abbas may not be directly supplying those terrorists, but he's scared witless of them.

And finally, my future life will also be in the ME, so for the sake of peace and quiet, I wholeheartedly support (as I already said) a Palestinian State and would help one myself as long as I won't get shot.
I do not agree, however, to the Arab demands for returning everything to the pre-1967 or even pre-1948 times because, well, a lot of things have changed.

miriam   December 2nd, 2008 11:01 am ET

Debs, I don't know where you are studying, but I am suprised you need to learn from an internet blog. I do hope that your information isn't restricted to what you glean from here if you plan on working in the region.
You have many questions about the UN. Many of us do too. All sides in the conflict have responsibilities outlined by the UN. There is a difference between resolutions passed by the Security Council and the main UN Assembly. Those passed by the Security Council are non-binding. However, all sides are guilty of violating resolutions but those by Israel are the only ones continually reported. In addition, a disproportionate number of resolutions are brought against Israel that makes the whole system into a joke. It is the fact that in 1947 the Arabs did not accept the Partition Plan passed by the UN, that the Palestinians have no state and that Israel knows that her security is the most important consideration when it comes to creating any future state.

Solomon   December 2nd, 2008 4:20 pm ET

Beny.

it seems that you are so intrenched in your opinion that no one is able to take you out from that hole.

saying that the Golan was given to Syria by France.and insisting that Iran Is Arab. and many other childish comments shows that misleading and fabrication is in your blood.

these are some of the books that you should read although I am sure that you accuse them of being anti semitics.

(1)the Great war for civilisation the conquest of the Middle east. by Robert Fisk

(2) the Zionist Connection. by Alfred Lilienthal.

(3): By Way of Deception: .
: Victor Ostrovsky

(4) They Dare to Speak Out: by Paul Findley:

(5)
Palestine Peace Not Apartheid . by Jimmy Carter's

(6) Ben Gurion's Scandals: by. Naeim Giladi..

as you see non of these books are written by Arabs some of them are written by Jews.

Beny   December 2nd, 2008 4:32 pm ET

Debs,

As for UN resolutions, just remember that among its voters are dozens of Muslim countries to one Israel (on occasion backed up by US). Its votes are pretty biased. If you look at the Partition Plan, you'll see that the countries who opposed it are Muslim countries: Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Yemen and the like.
Now remembering that the plan was designed to help Palestinians, their brothers-in-faith, as well...

Secondly, as for Solomon's claim that everything was good here before the "Zionists poisoned everything..." I'd like to give you two videos:

1) This was made by Israelis and Solomon will call them Zionist propaganda, but it doesn't change the fact that everything said there is true and you can look it up

2) Just one out of many examples.

Beny   December 2nd, 2008 5:05 pm ET

Solomon,

1)
Iranians aren't Arab. They are Persian, if that's what you meant to say.
What difference does it make in anything I said, though? Iran is still part of the very anti-Israeli group of different Arab countries.
I classify them by their attitude to us, not by their nationality.

2)
Yes. Golan was given to Syria. It was part of the French mandate and was given to Syria as the mandate ended and Syria was formed. How does telling this simple truth show that "misleading and fabrication" are in my "blood?"

3)
And by saying that those anti-Israel books were written by Jews you meant to say what, exactly? That some Jews oppose Israel? Thanks, I figured that out all by myself. Those Neturei-Karta guys, for example, seen warmly embracing Ahmednijad. I stopped taking those seriously a while ago.

And seriously, when will you stop making Israel the scapegoat for all your troubles?

Solomon   December 2nd, 2008 6:13 pm ET

Beny

1)
Iranians aren’t Arab They are Persian..

good now you know.

Yes. Golan was given to Syria. I

it was not part of France to be given to Syria. you should know this too to be a good student.

Beny   December 2nd, 2008 6:33 pm ET

Solomon,

The French mandate was there long before there was any Syria.

Ottoman Empire falls apart -> Britain and France get mandates over the whole area --> Britain gets Palestine, France gets land to the north --> Palestine is given to the UN for the partition, Syria is created on the territory of the former French mandate.

Check your history to see what a good student I really am...:)

Solomon   December 2nd, 2008 6:41 pm ET

The French mandate was there long before there was any Syria.

Beny you are not doing your home work. Syria was there before there was any France .
should I have to correct all your twisted information.?

Beny   December 2nd, 2008 7:30 pm ET

Solomon,

Huh? What record of Syria is there before 1920? It was the Ottoman Empire there! Give me a record showing the existence of a separate state called Syria in that land

Solomon   December 2nd, 2008 7:57 pm ET

I will be a fool if I am going to argue with you about the History of Syria

but Just to remind you that Salladin the King of Syria and Egypt
recaptured Jerusalem from the Crusades two hundred years before there was an ottoman Empire. this is all your brain can hold about Syria.

Beny   December 2nd, 2008 8:12 pm ET

Solomon,

What you're talking about is the ancient empire of Assyria. The land, called Syria, was later home to other peoples as well.
If you want to go that far back into history, however, I'll remind you of the great Israelite kingdom, that ruled over the Golan as well. There are Accadian and Assyrian records of it's existence and borders, which included the Golan.

I was talking about the modern state of Syria, which has little to do with Assyria except being on the same piece of land. Syria as referred to in texts is the land, not any state.

Truly, you are a fool arguing with me about this.

Solomon   December 2nd, 2008 8:39 pm ET

Beny. you are Jumping around like a drunk .you started with France as the owner of Syria then you changed your mind and decided that the ottomans own Syria now you are talking about Assyria in a little while you would probably say Syria do not exist.

I reminded you that Salladin Liberated Jerusalem and recaptured it from the Crusaders two hundred years before the ottoman Empire You decide to Ignore that fact..

our discussion here is about Palestine and the right of refugees to go back to their homes and for Jerusalem to be returned to its owners the Palestinians Muslims Jews and Christians and for Occupation to end.

this Blog its not about Assyria or Judea it is about Palestine.

Debs   December 2nd, 2008 10:59 pm ET

Miriam,

I am studying at the Middle Eastern Institute in Atlanta, this is my first year, saying that I have always cared what is happening in the ME. I have learned Arabic over the past three years. I also have arab and jewish friends, I have been involved with the Red Cross assisting Iraqi and other refugees from around the world. I am certainly not naive or misguided. Because of my knowledge of the ME I know that what is going on between Israelis and Palestinians is a mess, and that it is deep rooted and complicated, I have said that twice on this blog already.

I have no need to learn from the blog, I think it is important to speak to and be involved with the people affected by the issues areas to try and get a fair and balanced idea of what is really happening. If you feel that is wrong, I'm sorry

Beny,

I have watched one of the links you provided, I couldnt get the second one to work.

I would not say that the vidoe was pro zionist, In fact the video shows the positive and good sides of Israel, Medical Innocations, Security etc.. Every country should be proud of those types of acheivments, they contribute to the better of the world. Also i did like the particular coverage of the Isaraeli assistance in Iraq. That there proves that humanity between people who are "enemies" EXISTS and people can care about each other.

You said the UN voting is biased, maybe sometimes, but not always. I feel that the Israeli government could do more as Pres Abbas could do more from the Palestinian side.

Solomon,

You too are making some very good comments. It seems to be that if anyone tries to tell some truths of things that happened a while ago, or some things that are happening today, you are rounded on.

We here so much about the Palestinian wrong, and rightly so, they have religious extremist in their community brainwashing traumatised teenagers into becoming suicide bombers, they are using innocent Palestinian kids to carry out cowardly attacks. Would any of them strap a bomb vest to themselves? NO WAY! On the same token whenevever anyone tells of the wrongs that Israel has done you are anti – Israeli. I do not think that is fair at all.

It does not do any good to be like that. In order for peace to prevail, everybody must admit their wrongs and to learn from them to move on.

Salam and Shalom to all

miriam   December 3rd, 2008 9:45 am ET

Debs, good-luck! I didn't say you were doing anything wrong. I was just concerned that you may take for a fact, some of the information that is being shared here.Too often, this conflict is over-simplified and the resultant hatred causes too many casualties.

Beny   December 3rd, 2008 12:22 pm ET

Debs,

1)
The second video shows and Iraqi child suffering from heart disease treated in the same hospital my sister was born.

2)
"Pres Abbas could do more from the Palestinian side." I am afraid there is little Abbas can do, which is sad. After seeing him outvoted and then kicked out of Gaza by Hamas, I doubt he has much power over the Palestinians. Which is sad, because he's the closest thing we have now to a sane leader for the Palestinians.

He will never dare persecute the terrorists that his people see as heroes. Seeing as how Sadat was assasinated, I understand him.

3)
We do have a little power in the UN thanks to the US, but otherwise... well, just look at all the resolutions against Israel compared to anyone else. I'm not saying Israel is an angel, but we're not the devil people make us out to be either.

4)
People become anti-Israeli to me not when they speak of the wrongs Israel has done, but when they accuse us of things we haven't. That's where I step in.

Debs   December 3rd, 2008 6:58 pm ET

Miriam,

Yes this conflict is very, very complicated. I do see that their are alot of people have extreme views and attitudes from all sides. It is my sincere hope and prayer for everyone concerned and affected by this that someday this will cease.

Beny,

Thanks for video links. Firstly, please dont think that just because that someone speaks out and supports a Plaestinian state that we are Anti-Israel or terrorist sympathisers, not at all. as i have said before I fully support a Palestinian State along side Israel as both peoples belong there.

I too have critisived my home government ( I am studying in Atlanta but I am Scottish) over the war in Iraq, When someone critisizes the British government about certain things I normally agree as governments quite often do no reflect the people and the ideals of a country, which Ihink is sad really there would be less wars if governments of the world would start actaully doing more to help instead of looking for the next war to drum up.

Solomon   December 3rd, 2008 9:39 pm ET

Israeli warships stopped a Libyan ship in international water carrying humanitarian aid to the besieged people of Gaza.
The Libyan consignment consists of 1,200 tonnes of rice, 750 tonnes of milk, 500 tonnes of oil, 500 tonnes of flour and 100 tonnes of medicine, said the Libyan Fund for Aid and Development in Africa, which chartered the vessel.

this is piracy in international waters. seven more ships are coming in the next few days from different countries.

Israel boast that they have withdrawn from Gaza another of Israeli deception and lie.

I think all the countries of the world should send ships to break this blockade and stop Israeli piracy in international waters.

the Motto should be no more Berlin.

Debs   December 3rd, 2008 10:21 pm ET

Soloman,

Yes I agree with you on this point. Aid such as food and Medical shouldnt be cut off from civilian public. But with hamas, how can we be sure the aide gets to the people that need it.

This is one instance where Israel is breaking International law.

Salam and Shalom to all

dan perman   December 4th, 2008 12:36 pm ET

Debs

Resolution 194 does NOT call for the return of the refugees. what id does call for is:

11. Resolves that the refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbours should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date, and that compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return and for loss of or damage to property which, under principles of international law or in equity, should be made good by the Governments or authorities responsible;

Note "wishing to return AND live in peace with their neighbors..."

According to the Hamas charter, there cannot be peace with "their neighbors", unless it is "without" these neighbors.

Read the charter if you do not believe me.

and try not to take anything solomon claims to be a fact as seriously, it is usually nothing but part of the truth, but never the whole truth.

Debs   December 4th, 2008 6:56 pm ET

Dan,

Please read through all of my post on all three top blogs, I am not one sided, I have been highlighting were BOTH sides have gone wrong.
Salam and Shalom to all

dan perman   December 4th, 2008 8:01 pm ET

Debs

I was not accusing you of anything, i do read your posts

however, i felt the need to counter solomon's report on the infamous assembly decision which, unlike security council decisions, is not binding!!

in any case, you may know that wityh the arabs supported by the soviet block and the so-called unaligned countries, any resolution backed by the arabs would have passed, even one stating that the world is flat (and I am not joking)

Mike Vedreen   December 5th, 2008 2:00 am ET

So Dan, in your opinion what should be the solution to the millions of palestinian refugees currently living in refugee camps in Gaza, the West bank and Lebanon?
You said: "the isarelis give and the palestinians take".
Please explain what has Israel given so far. All I see is israel still grabbing palestinian land and kicking people out of their homes like the family that was kicked out of a home where they lived for the past 50 years in Jerusalem.
My friend, if you oppress people, don't expect them to throw flowers at you.
You talk about Hamas. What have Israel given to their beloved Mahmoud Abbas? Unless he also is a terrorist.
Every society has its extremists, palestinians are no exception. But Israel's actions are reinforcing extremism. Let the refugees go back to their homes and fields, pull out of the west bank and let the palestinians have their own state. Israel has the military power and the West's support, it has nothing to fear from a palestinian state. The rockets fired from Gaza are no real threat to Israel's security. Hamas knows that but they are fired out of despair and weakness.

Solomon   December 5th, 2008 4:29 am ET

The UN should use the word apartheid in connection with Israel and consider sanctions with the former South Africa serving as a model. Miguel dةscoto Brockman, president of the UN General Assembly, conveyed this message at a meeting on November 24th 2008 with the UN General Secretary Ban Ki-moon present.

The 1976 Nobel peace prize laureate, Mairead McGuire from Ireland, recently suggested a popular movement demanding that the UN revoke Israel’s membership. The international community now needs to put tangible pressure on Israel in order to stop its war crimes.

Not once, during the past 60 years, has Israel shown any intention of living up to the requirements stipulated by the UN, in connection with the country’s membership in 1948, namely that the Palestinians who had been evicted from their homes should be allowed to return at the earliest possible opportunity. Moreover, Israel holds the hardly flattering world record of ignoring UN resolutions.

It can be questioned from the aspect of human rights legislation whether Israel is a legitimate state. Established practice between states usually requires borders that are legally maintained and a constitution, neither of which Israel has. These requirements are also named in the UN resolution (181) Partition Plan for Palestine, approved by the General Assembly in November 1947. The plan was accepted by the Zionists Jews in Palestine but rejected for excellent reasons as unjust by the Arab states. Only decisions made by the UN Security Council are mandatory. Later on, Israel unilaterally laid claim to a considerably larger portion of land than that suggested by the UN.

The eviction of eighty per cent of the Palestinians who lived west of the 1947 armistice line, and Israel’s refusal to allow them to return is the human rights argument for expelling Israel from the UN. Not only has Israel played the Partition Plan false but has, by its actions, thwarted the grounds – fragile from the start – for its UN membership

miriam   December 5th, 2008 10:03 am ET

Mike, you may believe that the Palestinians are the oppressed but many believe that the Jews are those who after centuries of oppression managed to realise a solution to that treatment only to be abused again by neighbours. Despite the hate from Arab countries, the Jews offered flowers of willingness to compromise but those flowers were rejected and trampled on and even when revived and offered again, were pushed away.
Solomon, to question the legality of Israel's existance is obsene. The points you use to justify such an opinion are twisted and out of context.
You should leave Israel alone since you really don't know the truth. Spend your time studying some other countries who are members of the UN.

Debs   December 5th, 2008 5:21 pm ET

Dan, Miriam and Beny

Thnks for your comments,

Solomon,

Although I agree with some of your comments. I think you need to cool your heels a bit, Miriam, beny and some other commentators are trying to get you to see both angles.

Yes I do to want to see a Palestinian state that will live along side Irael peacefully. Isarel has done some terrible things but so have the Palestinian extremists, I use that term because they dont represent all Palestinians.

What has happened in the past we must learn from and learn from the mistakes that we all make. Dont you agree? If you can take them time to understand everybodys view, and in my opinion everyone on this post says some valid remarks, but often sometimes they can be biased and one sided.

Please for the sake of peace, shouldnt we be talking of how to sort this out instead of more fighting, sometimes we all need to compromise for peace. That is something that I would certainly be willing to do for peace.

Salal Aleikum Solom

Shalom beny, miriam, dan

Peace be upon all please!

dan perman   December 5th, 2008 5:26 pm ET

mike

millions of refugees?

what about the one million of jewish refugees that were driven out or left arab countries with nothing but their clothes on their back

what about the millions of german refugees driven out of danzig, koenigsberg, breslau, the sudetenland etc

what about the tens of millions of other refugees all over teh world?

why don't i hear any of you bleeding hearts mentioning them? only the 400 000 arab refugees of the 1948 war STARTED by the arabs interest you?

I wonder why?

Debs   December 5th, 2008 6:23 pm ET

Dan,

Thank you for bringing up the plight of refugees from around the word. In my red cross work back home we have dealt with

1. Iraqi refugees

3 Kosovan refugees

4. Somali refugees

5. Rwandan refuges

6. DRC refugees

Hence when I say we need to do more to stop conflicts

Salam and Shalom to all

Solomon   December 5th, 2008 11:47 pm ET

. I think you need to cool your heels a bit, Miriam, beny and some other commentators are trying to get you to see both angles.

Debs. I have lived all my life defending the Palestinian people I have yet to see one Israeli accepting that the west bank including Jerusalem and the Gaza strip and the Golan Height are not Israeli territories. and I have yet to hear an Israeli saying the Palestinians have the right to go to their homes in Palestine. read beny's posts he still think that these Jewish thieves are nice human being.

may be you can convince them that they are wrong and I promise you I will change my attitude toward Israel.

Debs   December 6th, 2008 6:53 am ET

Solomon,

Again, I do understand what you are saying and I have said before I do whole heartedly support a Palestinian state and yes Israel has done some terrible things.

But Solomon, along with protesters and peace activist in the west bank their are Israeli supporters. There are also plenty of Israeli people who do recognise Palestinians and have understanding for them. There is also Israeli medical staff within the red cross and the UN which work within Gaza (yes that is true).

I have been around middle eastern people all of my life, Arabs and Jews, I know of Palestines plight. I want them to have their state, but I want them to live peacefully. One of my Arab friends is a Palestinian and is also friends with my Jewish friends. When I hear them discuss the problems, yes they do!!, everybody agrees that more needs to be done on all sides the Palestinian governmets and Israelis both need to sort this out!!!

I feel that for you to label all Israelis like these settlers, is unfair. Most Israelis arent like that. Also people that label all Palestinians suicide bombers is way off mark, that to is unfair.

Salam and Shalom to all

dan perman   December 6th, 2008 8:10 pm ET

debs

don't take my word for it

check waht the arabs did in jerusalem to the jews living in the old city

check what they did to the jews living in Kfar Etzion

check and then tell solomon!!

Debs   December 7th, 2008 4:23 am ET

Dan,

Yes I agree that Arabs have done terrible thing and so have Israelis. This situation is a bloody mess.

I have tried to tell Solomon and others on this blog to work for peace. It is so tragic. I appreciate that youself and beny do try and see thing from both sides and Solomon does sometimes.

For me, I think that a Palestinian state does need to be established, and recognised, along with the other Arab nations recognising Israel, I know it wont fix the complete problem, but it is the start of a long road that will need much commitment from everybody for peace to work.

Salam and Shalom to all

dan perman   December 12th, 2008 8:49 am ET

here is another example of peaceful coexistence of arabs and jews that solomon believes in:

Moshe Yaish-Nahari, the brother of a prominent rabbi in Yemen was shot to death on Thursday in Rida, Yemen, located north of the capital Sana'a, the London-based Arabic newspaper Asharq Al-Awsat reported.

Local sources said the suspected killer, Abed el-Aziz el-Abadi, a former MiG-29 pilot in Yemen's air force, has been apprehended and taken in for questioning.

Eyewitnesses told the newspaper that el-Abadi had confronted Nahari at the market in Rida, called out to him "Jew, accept the message of Islam" and then proceeded to open fire with a Kalashnikov assault rifle. Nahari was struck by five bullets.

this is the peaceful coexistence that, according to solopmon, prevailed for hundreds of years!!!!!!

Debs   December 13th, 2008 3:36 am ET

Dan,

That is terrible, this is why I say all the fighting needs to stop. Both sides need to compromise, talk and do much more to solve these problems.

Solomon, I think (I may be wrong) doesnt see everything, the problems between Arab,Jew Muslim, ect.... is not straighforward or black and white. All sides are murdering, victimising and hating each other.

Salam and Shalom to all.

Solomon   December 13th, 2008 4:11 am ET

"Local sources said the suspected killer, Abed el-Aziz el-Abadi, a former MiG-29 pilot in Yemen’s air force, has been apprehended and taken in for questioning."

dan
in my opinion this man should be hanged he killed an innocent person. .

Debs   December 14th, 2008 8:12 am ET

Solomon,

Yes I agree he should be tried as a murderer and sent to jail for a long, long time.

Salam and Shalom to all

Chernor Jalloh   December 14th, 2008 4:01 pm ET

First of all I would like to thank the following people who have shared their own point of views on this blog at this crucial moments in the Middle East,especially the ongoing conflicts between Israel and Palestine:Solomon,Debs,Deby,Mirian and Dan.The Jews people have been living alongside the Palestinians for a longtime,until when the Nazis committed genociode or holocaust against the Jews in Auschwitz in Poland.So,infear of their lives they(Jews)then decided to return to their ancesteral land in Israel.

But the problem was and still is there were so many people who were claiming to be Jews just to go to the promise land and settle there.And this is creating another obstacle for the state of Israel as the population is grownig so is the illeagl settlements are being expanded on Palestinian lands while Paletinians are forced to leave their homes either by court ruling or Jews settlers who are protected by the Army.If we think that it is only Arabs and Palestinians who hate Jews we are not watching other news channels when it comes to domestic issues in Israel itself or we intend to ignore the facts that there are no mafias or neo Nazis who happened to come from Russia.These groups are causing alot of trouble inside Israel and they are of a greater threats in Israel like anyone.Hamas must recognise the existence of Israel and stop launching rockets into Israel and renounce violence.By doing so,people will obviously see that they are ready to make peace with Israel and it will be up to the Israeli government to do the same by ending the occupations.Israel is the only democratic country in the Middle East,but I see no reason why it is restricting access on the media into the occupied territories(Gaza).As ordinary people we shouldnot accept all what our politicians are saying or doing in our name,because we are the people that are going to suffer.So, it is our obligations to stand up together and say enough is enough for the sake of peace.

Chernor Jalloh   December 14th, 2008 4:26 pm ET

My dear Dan Perman,many thanks for your story on the gunning down of an innocent man like Moshe Yaish-Nahari,who has got nothing to do with the conflict between Israel and Paletine.The man that did such heinous acts should face the gallows just like they did to Saddam Hussein in Iraq.I must stress here you cannot kill someone because he is not a muslim.It is clear that,this is pure hatred.Jews are known to be the people of the book like the Christians too.As it has been made in the Qu'ran there is no obligation in Religion.In another charpter, for you your religion and for me my religion.Iam hereby extending my condolences to the dead man's family,both at home and abroad may his soul rest in peace.Every peace loving person should condemn this barbaric attacks on this man.Let´s hope and pray that such incident is not repeated again.


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