October 8, 1995
Web posted at: 12:45 a.m. EDT
The American Catholic Church is as diverse as America itself. Abortion, pre-marital sexual relations, birth control and married clergy are some of the issues that divide many within the church. The following is a transcript of CNN anchor Ralph Wenge's interview with three guests representing divergent views within the church.
RALPH WENGE, anchor: You know, one of the amazing things about the Catholic Church is its diversity. Many large Archdiocese in American cities now offer masses in numerous languages to accommodate large ethnic communities.
Perhaps there's no such thing as a typical American Catholic, and joining us are three of the many faces of Catholicism in the U.S.
Monsignor Russell Dillard of St. Augustine Church in Washington, one of the oldest and largest black Catholic churches in America; Sister Maureen Fiedler of Catholics Speak Out, an advocate for liberal reform in the church; and Michael Ferguson, executive director of Catholic Campaign for America, what traditional Catholics might refer to as a defender of the faith. Thank you all for joining us this morning.
Mr. Ferguson, let me begin with you. There are an awful lot of young people out there, young Catholics who have grown up being given the full teachings of the Catholic Church and now they're young adults and they have their own ideas of family life, they have their own ideas of abortion and so many other things, things that conflict with the church. How do they deal with us?
MICHAEL FERGUSON, executive director, Catholic Campaign for
America: Well, I think they deal with it in a number of
ways. Obviously, you know, young people growing up
struggling with their faith, struggling with learning what's
right and wrong and, you know, their faith and how that plays
into their lives. You know, that's an important growth
process and all of us go through it. Many of us go through
that our entire lives.
But I think the strength of our church and especially the teachings of our holy father - the real positive part of that is that the church and the Holy Father really stands as a beacon, as a moral guide, you know, with leadership, you know, communicating to our young people.
And I think that's one of the great messages that our Holy Father is communicating to our country this week. It certainly was evident a couple of years ago when he visited Denver for World Youth Day, and it was very obvious that the youth are really responding to that message.
WENGE: But Sister Fiedler, isn't it true though that the Catholic Church, even though it may listen to a lot of this rhetoric, really is reluctant to make any changes, things that have gone on for thousands and thousands of years in the church?
SISTER MAUREEN FIEDLER, co-chair, Catholics Speak Out: Well,
the hierarchy in this pontiff is reluctant to make changes,
but Catholics at the grass roots would welcome them, because
all polls are showing that the vast majority of Catholics
when it comes to the so-called hot button into a church
issues are looking for major changes. For example, they
would welcome a married clergy. They would welcome women in
the priesthood and indeed women in the Office of Bishop.
They recognize, for example, the steep decline in priestly
ordinations in this country and they fear that pastoral
services and particularly their access to the Eucharist,
which is central to Catholic life and worship may be in
jeopardy.
WENGE: But that's what I'm saying. Isn't the time going to have to come for the hierarchy to say this is what the masses want, this is what the masses are demanding -- we're going to have to make some changes?
FIEDLER: I certainly think so, less the church become a fossil in our own time and I don't think that's what Jesus called us to be. And may I say the church has changed throughout the centuries. It is not a stone kind of institution that is incapable of change. We had, for example, a married clergy for 11 centuries. We know women did preside at the celebration of the Eucharist for the first three centuries of our church. Indeed, we had democratic decision making for many, many centuries in our church, where people and priests used to actually elect their bishops.
WENGE: Monsignor Dillard, is the congregation of African- Americans growing?
MSGR. RUSSELL DILLARD, St. Augustine Church: Very much so.
I think they're two sides to that. There is a growth in
African-American Catholicism, especially where there are
churches that speak to the cultural needs of African-American
people. So in those particular churches, in those particular
areas, there is a burgeoning of African-American
Catholicism.
However, in those places where African-American cultural needs and experiences are not tapped into, then you don't see as much of a growth, you don't see people and the numbers that we see in other places, coming to be a part of the Catholic Church or remaining in the Catholic Church, because of feeling of lack of connectedness.
WENGE: But you had unique problems with the inner city youth and especially with the young people in the inner cities. How do you deal with that?
DILLARD: Well, we deal with it I think as the church has always dealt with people from the standpoint of reaching out. We feel very, very committed to the fact that a church in the midst of the city cannot just be a church on the corner that only opens its doors on Sundays. We reach out to our brothers and sisters, young and old in our community all the time, every day. We are seen greatly as the community church because when you come to the door of a Catholic Church in this diocese, at least, you will find somebody there to answer it, somebody there to say can I help you, what can I do for you?
And with young people it's the same way. We try to do the best that we can with the resources that we have to make ourselves open to the needs of young people, to the belief that Jesus Christ reaches out through us to young people.
WENGE: There was a time, I believe, that a lot of people were really afraid to go against the hierarchy in the church. Is that changing now and is it possible to be a good devout Catholic and still disagree with it on social issues?
FERGUSON: Well, I think, you know, that may or may not be true. I think many people, obviously, in western Democracy certainly, of which the United States is one of the main ones, if not the main Democracy in our world -- there is much more a sense of individualism, there is much stronger sense of individual rights and I think, obviously, that may not be consistent with some of our church teachings, our teachings of community and solidarity as our Holy Father has talked about a few times on this trip. So I think, obviously, that causes some problems.
But I think the message that John Paul II is communicating this week is that we have to come together as a community, we have to focus on the message of the gospel and the message of Jesus Christ and not be so concerned with the attitudes which are common in our culture and in our society which are typified by what's most convenient for me and what's most comfortable for me must be right and that's somehow a license in some way.
WENGE: Sister Fiedler, you've been very outspoken recently and in the past about at least a couple of issues that have come to the fore, and one of them is married clergy and the other is women priests.
FIEDLER: Yes, that's right, and Catholics are doing this across the United States. They're claiming an adult responsibility for their faith and they're feeling very much called to speak out about concerns in the church.
Just Thursday of this week in the Baltimore Sun, there was a full page signature ad signed by more than 2,600 Catholics, but representing the vast majority calling for just those changes in the priesthood.
But this is happening at the grass roots, too, in parishes. Catholics are dialoguing on the really difficult issues of sexuality and reproduction and trying to wrestle with what these things mean. They're talking about issues of justice toward women in the church. They're talking about greater lay decision making. They're uncovering even some of our own history in American Catholicism where we don't know it.
For example, John Carroll, who is the first bishop of Baltimore and the first bishop in the United States, was elected by the clergy in an effort, that was 1789, to develop a distinctly American spirit and practice in this church. They're uncovering the history of lay trustees which we had early in this church, where people in the pew elected laity to run the temporal affairs of their parishes and they actually had control of the property and the money in those days. This is really a lot of the heritage that we bring to Catholicism.
WENGE: Monsignor Dillard, do you agree with that? Would you like to see these changes made, too?
DILLARD: I think at some point many of these changes will come to be. I think his holiness is listening. Now because one listens does that mean one always has to go with what one listens to, not necessarily at a certain point in time? I believe his holiness believes that he has to be informed by the holy spirit.
So because of that our pope is waiting and I know that's not an adequate answer for a whole lot of folk that our pope is waiting, but I think that just as he was informed about issues of rights around this world, just as he is one of the most bold popes to stand up against the intolerance in governments and the overbearing nature of some of our ways here in the United States. So he will, I think, listen to the Holy Spirit when the Holy Spirit informs him about these other issues.
WENGE: Sister Fiedler, what about the issue of overpopulation? It is no secret, and I'd like to hear from Mr. Ferguson on this, too. No question that it is one of the pressing problems of this world and yet the church's hierarchy has steadfastly gone against any kind of birth control, especially in Third World countries.
FIEDLER: Yes, I think that's uni -- well, for of all, Catholics in the United States have come to a different conclusion on birth control. All the surveys show that something like 90 percent of couples of child bearing age who are Catholic in this country, in fact, use contraception. And many of -- all of them, practically -- consider this a moral choice in perfectly good conscience.
I think what's really at stake here though when you deal with any of the issues of reproduction is the question of the moral adulthood of women who are the people who usually make these choices. And the question of who's choice is it and who gets to sort out the complexities of these many situations where people might decide to, you know, use contraception or in certain circumstances to even have an abortion.
WENGE: Mr. Ferguson, do you see changes in the church on this issue?
FERGUSON: I -- I don't see any imminent changes in the church on this issue, but I think the problem with this discussion is that the language sometimes begins to be coded, when we talk about reproductive rights and women's choices and men's choices.
The issue, the issue at heart, is the value of human life. What value do we place on human life and should human beings be in the position of deciding the value of another person's life. That is so with issues of abortion. That's so with issues regarding euthanasia. That's so with capital punishment.
The problem with our society and our culture is that human beings have decided that they can decide the value of another human being's life and that certainly is not the message of the gospel, that is not the message of our church, and it certainly -- John Paul II really upholds that.
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