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THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER
Interview With Trump Campaign Communications Director Tim Murtaugh; Trump Refuses to Condemn Right-Wing Extremist Group During Debate. Aired 4-4:30p ET
Aired September 30, 2020 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:13]
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.
We begin with the 2020 lead right now, fallout from the debate that Joe Biden called a -- quote -- "national embarrassment" and Republican senator Ben Sasse called a shit show this afternoon.
Oblivious to the criticism, President Trump moments ago said that he thought the debate went great. That is not the view of Republican senators who today called on President Trump to clean up remarks from the debate in which the president not only declined to explicitly condemn white supremacists; he offered encouragement to the Proud Boys, a violent far-right neo-fascist group.
Given a second chance this afternoon, however, the president again declined to denounce the support of white supremacist supporters, and again declined to explicitly denounce white supremacy.
As far as the president would go was to claim he's always denounced -- quote -- "any form of any of that."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUESTION: Mr. President, let me follow up. White supremacists clearly love you and support you. Do you welcome that?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I want law and order to be a very important part. It's a very important part of my campaign. And when I say that, what I'm talking about is law enforcement has to -- police have to take care.
And they should stop defunding the police, like they have done in New York, like they have done in New York.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: I just told you.
QUESTION: But do you denounce them? Do you denounce...
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: I have always denounced any form, any form, any form of any of that. You have to denounce.
But I also -- Joe Biden has to say something about Antifa.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: The president also claiming today that he does not know who the Proud Boys are, after he told that violent anti-Semitic group to -- quote -- "stand back and stand by," which that violent group took as an endorsement.
Instead, the president today immediately pivoting to blaming left-wing groups for violence.
CNN's Kaitlan Collins joins me now.
Kaitlan, I have to say, this reminds me quite a bit of February 2016, when three times I asked candidate Trump to renounce, to explicitly renounce the endorsement of former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke, and three times, live on television, he declined to do it.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jake, he seems to be following a similar pattern to what he did then now, by saying that he didn't know David Duke at the time, even though, of course, he was on the record talking about David Duke in the past.
And now he's saying he doesn't know who the Proud Boys are, something he did not mention on the debate stage last night. And, Jake, this is a pattern of the Donald Trump presidency, where he will refuse to condemn racism or white nationalism, and then spend several days backpedaling as aides struggle with what to say.
And you see, Republicans are having no trouble denouncing those comments on Capitol Hill. So, of course, the question is, what does this really mean? Why does the president keep doing this?
Because the federal government has said that white supremacy terrorism is one of the biggest threats facing the nation. Yet, repeatedly, when the president is given opportunities to denounce them, he doesn't take them.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TRUMP: I have always denounced any form, any form, any form of any of that. You have to denounce.
COLLINS (voice-over): After refusing to explicitly condemn white supremacy and right-wing extremists in last night's debate, President Trump declined to denounce them once again today.
TRUMP: I don't know who the Proud Boys are. They have to stand down, let law enforcement do their work.
COLLINS: Trump now saying he doesn't know the Proud Boys, a far right group that's endorsed violence, which he refused to denounce last night.
TRUMP: Proud Boys, stand by and stand by.
COLLINS: Trump quickly pivoting from his actions to Joe Biden.
TRUMP: Now, Antifa is a real problem, because the problem is on the left, and Biden refuses to talk about it.
COLLINS: The fallout from President Trump's frenzied debate performance was felt throughout Washington today.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It sounds like President Trump was President Trump.
COLLINS: Despite Trump saying today that he received rave reviews...
TRUMP: We have gotten tremendous reviews on it.
COLLINS: ... privately, CNN spoke with several Trump officials, advisers and supporters who acknowledged that he was too aggressive, didn't tout enough accomplishments, and lacked a clear line of attack on his opponent.
TRUMP: There's nothing smart about you, Joe.
COLLINS: Even those who helped him prepare for the debate, like former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, conceded that he came on too strong.
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R-NJ): It was too hot. Listen, you come in and decide you want to be aggressive. And I think that was the right thing to be aggressive, but that was too hot.
COLLINS: Any chance for decorum during last night's debate was quickly dashed as the president interrupted Biden at nearly every chance he got.
JOSEPH BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Would you shut up, man?
(CROSSTALK)
CHRIS WALLACE, MODERATOR: Mr. President, I'm the moderator of this debate and I would like you to let me ask my question and then you can answer...
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Go ahead.
[16:05:00]
COLLINS: The chaotic nature of the debate driving the Commission on Presidential Debates to issue a statement saying, "Last night's debate made clear that additional structure should be added to the format of the remaining debates to ensure a more orderly discussion of the issues." (END VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: Now, short of cutting their mics or installing an eject button, it's not really clear what the commission can do to change the nature of that debate that you saw play out last night.
But what we have heard today, both campaigns are saying their candidates will show up for the next two debates in Florida and in Tennessee.
TAPPER: All right, Kaitlan Collins at the White House, thank you so much.
Joining us now from, Trump campaign communications director Tim Murtaugh.
Tim, thanks so much for joining us.
Let's start with the news from the bipartisan Commission on Presidential Debates. They just announced that they're considering adding more structure to the remaining debates due to the chaos last night. The president, of course, did not stop interrupting the moderator and Joe Biden.
You put out a statement saying -- quote -- "They're only doing this because their guy got pummeled last night" -- unquote.
Who's they in this construct, the bipartisan Commission on Presidential Debates?
TIM MURTAUGH, TRUMP 2020 CAMPAIGN COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Sure.
The bipartisan commission is riding to the rescue of their guy. The president was a dominant force last night, and he did pummel Joe Biden. And I would point out that Joe Biden interrupted the president more than 70 times as well, Jake.
And so what they're doing, the Biden people have clearly been working the refs. And now they're going to change the rules in the middle of the game.
But the fact is, the president will be there. He won the debate last night. He's going to win the next two. And it's Joe Biden who's getting advice from all corners to withdraw from the debates. I saw my old friend Larry Sabato from UVA, I guess, more or less leading the charge, calling for the cancellation of the rest of the debate schedule.
(CROSSTALK)
MURTAUGH: We don't want that. We want the debates to continue.
And I think that changing the rules midstream is a bad idea just to bail out one guy who was clearly weak and overmatched last night.
TAPPER: Why do you think that the bipartisan Commission on Presidential Debates, which includes Republican members, as well as Democrats, that their guy is Joe Biden?
You're saying that the chairman, the Republican chairman, Frank Fahrenkopf, wants Biden to win. Are you really saying that?
MURTAUGH: I think what you see is that this is a reaction to the fact that Joe Biden didn't have a very good night last night. He looked weak. He was unable to defend his 47 years of failure in Washington.
He was unable to articulate why he's carrying this radical agenda from the left. You saw him, how he was backpedaling on the Green New Deal, for example. It was a bad night for Joe Biden.
And so then, on the morning after, to talk about changing the rules because the debate was such a disaster for one candidate, I think it's pretty obvious which way the field is tilted.
TAPPER: Well, the polls that have come out all indicate that the people who watched the debate, in some polls, a majority, in some polls, a plurality, thought that your guy, that President Trump, lost the debate.
But forget what the polls indicate.
(CROSSTALK)
MURTAUGH: There are other polls. Telemundo had a poll that was 2-1 in favor of the president.
TAPPER: That's not a real poll. That's not a real poll.
Chris Christie, who helped...
MURTAUGH: Jake, these are Telemundo viewers who think that the president handled Joe Biden...
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: That's not -- that's no -- I'm not going to debate with you. It's not a real methodological poll.
Chris Christie, who helped Trump prepare for the debate, said that the president was too hot. Senator Rick Santorum, another Trump supporter, said that, if he were a down-ballot Republican running for office this year, he would be -- quote -- "pretty mad" at the president for indulging himself, to their detriment.
Those are your supporters. What's your response to these Republican critics?
MURTAUGH: The president went in with a very clear plan, and he executed that plan very well.
He was aggressive. And the point was to make the case that the president has achieved more in 47 months than Joe Biden has achieved in 47 years. And another great line from last night, which actually cuts right to the heart of Joe Biden's problem as it relates to the American worker, the president said, China ate your lunch, Joe.
That really is a central problem that Joe Biden has. I think the president had a game plan. He executed it. He was very aggressive. He had Joe Biden on his heels practically the whole night. And he had Chris Wallace having to step in and rescue Joe Biden.
There was one point, could have been a big moment in the debate, where Biden couldn't name a single law enforcement organization that supported him. And Chris Wallace stepped in and changed the subject.
TAPPER: Your guy...
MURTAUGH: If he had let Biden sit there and twist in the wind, it would have been a dramatic moment in the debate.
But Chris Wallace prevented it.
TAPPER: The president kept interrupting his -- you think he was aggressive. Other people think he was abusive.
Even Rush Limbaugh said that the president went in with a strategy, but the strategy didn't work.
Let me ask you. This afternoon...
MURTAUGH: Well, we disagree. We think -- we think the president executed a fine strategy.
He came into the war room immediately after the debate last night.
TAPPER: Who did he convince? Who did he convince?
MURTAUGH: I -- look, the American people saw very clear differences last night between a president who's got a clear record of accomplishment over the first 47 months of his presidency against a guy who's been in D.C. for 47 years and has nothing to show for it, can't defend his own failed economic record, can't defend his $4 trillion tax increase, is backpedaling away from the radical left agenda, because he can't -- he desperately wants to conceal what it is that he's running on.
[16:10:09]
TAPPER: So...
MURTAUGH: The Green New Deal is something that he bragged about when he launched his climate change plan.
TAPPER: He does not support the Green...
MURTAUGH: It's all over his Web site.
TAPPER: He doesn't support the Green -- he doesn't support the Green... MURTAUGH: It's all over his Web site. Yes, he absolutely -- he embraces -- it says very clearly he embraces the framework of the Green New Deal.
Last night, he threw the Green New Deal out the window.
TAPPER: OK.
MURTAUGH: So, here's a guy who -- he didn't spend any time talking about the fact that he's going to raise taxes by $4 trillion. He never went into any of that.
And that's what the president's plan was, to show him for the fraud that he is.
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: Tim, Tim, Tim, this is -- the way that this works is, I ask a question you answer, not I ask a question, and you talk for 10 minutes, OK?
This afternoon, President Trump was asked if he condemns white supremacists, the white supremacists who support him.
He declined to say that he didn't want their support. He started talking about law...
MURTAUGH: No, he didn't. I just heard the tape. You just played it, Jake.
TAPPER: He -- we just played the whole thing. He did not...
MURTAUGH: Yes.
TAPPER: He was asked, do you welcome the support of white supremacists who love you? He started talking about law and order.
Then pressed, he said he denounces -- quote -- "any form of any of that."
Why is it so difficult for President Trump to say, I condemn white supremacy, I do not want the support of white supremacists? Why is that so difficult for this president?
MURTAUGH: It's not difficult, and he has done it many, many times.
At a certain point, the media has to accept yes for an answer, Jake.
TAPPER: He didn't do it today.
MURTAUGH: And look, you were one of the few people who actually pointed out -- yes, he did. He said, I denounce all of that. How much more clear do you want him to be?
TAPPER: What -- all of what?
MURTAUGH: You were one of the few who pointed out -- I'm trying to give you credit for something here, Jake.
You were one of the few who pointed out the fallacy of what happened in Charlottesville. And the president was very clear back in Charlottesville. He denounced white supremacists. He denounced the KKK.
Just this last Friday -- CNN didn't send a crew to Atlanta for the president's event, but the president said that he is declaring the KKK a terrorist organization.
TAPPER: Why now?
(CROSSTALK)
MURTAUGH: That's something that Joe Biden never did in 47 years.
TAPPER: Well, President Trump has been president for...
MURTAUGH: Look, Joe Biden had 47 years to do it, Jake, and he never did. He was vice president for eight years. He never did it.
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: President Trump has been president since...
MURTAUGH: The president has been president for less than four years.
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: Why now?
MURTAUGH: Right, less than four years compared to 47, Jake, less than four years compared to 47.
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: Tim, can you say the words, I condemn white supremacists?
Are you able to say that? I do not...
MURTAUGH: Sure.
TAPPER: Do you...
MURTAUGH: And the president did it.
TAPPER: I'm asking you.
MURTAUGH: The president has done it multiple times, Jake.
TAPPER: Does the Trump campaign...
MURTAUGH: You have -- you have played. How many times does he -- he has denounced it over and over again. I condemn white supremacy.
TAPPER: I'm asking you. MURTAUGH: He said it in Charlottesville. You even defended him for that...
TAPPER: I didn't defend him.
MURTAUGH: ... on this show.
TAPPER: I never defended him.
MURTAUGH: You actually -- you explained what the truth was.
TAPPER: I explained what he said.
MURTAUGH: You called out the erroneous reporting.
TAPPER: I explained what he said.
MURTAUGH: Yes, you did, yes.
TAPPER: Yes, I explained what he said.
MURTAUGH: And that's just a fact, yes.
TAPPER: He denounced -- he said, he's not including the neo-Nazis and the white supremacists when he talked about very fine people.
But who are the very fine people?
MURTAUGH: And he denounced them very clearly.
TAPPER: Tim, who were the very fine people? Who were the very fine people?
(CROSSTALK)
MURTAUGH: I'm not going to relitigate...
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: Right, because there were none. That's the point. That's the point.
(CROSSTALK)
MURTAUGH: This debate should be about who is better for black Americans.
And, on that score, it is clearly President Trump, the lowest unemployment rate in the history of this country for black Americans, record investing in HBCUs.
TAPPER: Can you say that the campaign does not want the support of white supremacists?
MURTAUGH: Absolutely.
TAPPER: Say it.
MURTAUGH: And the president has said that multiple times.
TAPPER: So, say it.
MURTAUGH: We do -- we do not want the support of white supremacists.
And the president has made that clear over and over and over again.
Sooner or later, you guys have to take yes for an answer. Yes, we denounce it. Yes, we reject it.
TAPPER: Why can't President Trump just say that, what you just said?
MURTAUGH: I'm telling -- he has it over and over and over, Jake.
The question should be, which of these two men is better for the black community? The president's record is clear, lowest unemployment ever for black Americans, historic funding to historically black colleges and universities.
TAPPER: OK.
MURTAUGH: The FIRST STEP Act, letting people out of prison early for nonviolent offenses, giving them a second chance at life.
TAPPER: Yes.
MURTAUGH: Joe Biden, meanwhile, palled around with racist segregationist senators to prevent the integration of schools.
TAPPER: Oh, come on.
MURTAUGH: His own -- his own running mate...
TAPPER: Come on.
MURTAUGH: ... took him to task for that during a Democrat debate. Did you watch that one? It was obvious.
TAPPER: If we're going to start talking -- I did, of course.
(CROSSTALK)
MURTAUGH: That's part of the record, Jake. If we're going to talk about records...
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: That's fine.
If you want to talk about what Joe Biden was doing in the 1970s, when he worked with segregationist senators, absolutely. Have at it. Have at it.
MURTAUGH: It's part of his -- let's talk about just in this election, just in this election, he said that he believes that all black people think the same, and he said, if you're not voting for him, and you're black, then you ain't black.
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: You know what? I'm not Chris Wallace.
MURTAUGH: That's an actual fact.
TAPPER: Thank you, Tim. Appreciate it. Thank you so much.
President Trump refused to condemn them during the debate, so just who are the Proud Boys? CNN visited one of their recent rallies.
Then, our next guest focused on fighting hate groups like the Proud Boys for the Department of Homeland Security under Trump -- why she thinks today's failed attempt by the president to clear up his remarks is a problem.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:18:56]
TAPPER: In our 2020 lead -- this afternoon, President Trump once again refused to explicitly condemn white supremacists or disavow their support. And he is now claiming he does not even know who the Proud Boys are, even though he said this last night, which some are already perceiving as something of marching orders.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Proud Boys, stand back and stand by. But I'll tell you what, I'll tell you what, somebody's got to do something about Antifa and the left.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: The Proud Boys responding on social media saying, quote, standing down and standing by, sir.
By the way, Mr. President, the Proud Boys, a far right neo-fascist group with a reputation for inciting violence. And the Southern Poverty Law Center has labeled them a hate group.
Joe Biden called for the Proud Boys and white supremacist groups to cease and desist. And late this afternoon, the president told them to stand down and let law enforcement do their job.
CNN's correspondent Elle Reeve joins me live now.
Elle, you attended a Proud Boys rally a few days ago. You've been speaking to some of its members.
Do you think that President Trump, what he said today is going to sound like backtracking to them, or do they still think he's on board?
[16:20:05]
ELLE REEVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The president might be trying to walk his comments back now. But it's probably too late. Some clearly saw this as a call to action with one Proud Boy posting on social media site Parler, quote: Trump basically said to go F them up. This makes me so happy.
Since then, that poster has clarified he thinks no one is above the law. But obviously, this was a welcomed message from the president.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're a drinking club with a patriot problem. I think our main objective is to defend the West.
CROWD: USA, USA!
"MILKSHAKE", PROUD BOY MEMBER: Do I look scary with this? I would never use this to hit someone out of just a blatant attack. It would be only self-defense.
REEVE: We're at the Proud Boys rally in Delta Park.
CROWD: I pledge allegiance to the flag.
REEVE: The Proud Boys are a far-right group with ambiguous beliefs but a clear record of street fights.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're not punching each other in the face.
REEVE: But part of the culture is to be lightly punched while naming five breakfast cereals.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Five breakfast cereals, yes.
REEVE: They planned this rally after a far-right activist was killed here a few weeks ago. Many worry that their presence in Portland will result in clashes with anti-fascist protesters who planned their own rally as a response.
Ahead of this the governor declared a state of emergency. There's at least 300 people here, although they've hyped up to 3,000. And the ratio of journalists to Proud Boys is very high.
(CHANTING)
REEVE: Are you here to get in fights with Antifa?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely not.
REEVE: But you guys are sort of addressed in the aesthetics of political violence?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Aesthetics and actually what we are is two different things. We're all wearing protective gear.
REEVE: It just seems like every time there is a proud boys event it ends with some people getting beat up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If our mere presence causes people to want to commit acts of violence, we're not afraid to defend ourselves.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know what you do, bro, calling (ph) people white supremacists and (INAUDIBLE). But it's not a white supremacist and a Nazi --
REEVE: The Proud Boys all tell us they're just here to drink beer and barbecue, but there have already been a couple incidents that have teetered on the edge of violence, including our own crew being threatened.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Get out!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take your (EXPLETIVE DELETED) camera.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (EXPLETIVE DELETED) CNN. Get the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) out. (EXPLETIVE DELETED) wrong place to be.
REEVE: Just filmed that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You got something to say?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We had one Antifa come in here. He only openly admitted he was.
The camera may capture it all. Wow, look, they're being so violent.
We didn't touch him. He wasn't bleeding. He wasn't marked up. He didn't get punched. He didn't get spit or nothing. And I told him earlier and I said, hey, you're lucky.
REEVE: Well, if you're not here for violence, it wouldn't be lucky, it'd be the plan, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, yeah. I mean --
REEVE: It wouldn't be a stroke of luck?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure, but --
REEVE: If you weren't expecting to be violent?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But it's just me, but I can't speak for everybody else.
REEVE: The sheriff's department estimated about a thousand people came to Delta Park throughout the day. Meanwhile, about a thousand counterprotesters gathered three miles away.
What do you think the Proud Boys represent?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Fear, fear of losing power. They feel like they are just losing everything they have thought that they are the superior race.
We call us the proud little peanut boys.
REEVE: And why is it important to, like, have a counter rally to the Proud Boys? Why not just ignore them?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're out here to show them that we're not afraid and we're not going to back down in the face of tyranny, especially when our president is amping up this whole situation.
REEVE: At the nightly anti-police protest, people waited wearily for the Proud Boys to show up but they never came. Instead, the only clashes that occurred were the same ones between police and protesters that have happened nearly every night since May.
In the end, it was just another night in Portland.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
REEVE: So, the leader -- the chair of the proud boys says he does not engage in political violence. But the group has a clear history of street fights. And CNN has video of a fight in New York in 2018, which led to two members being convicted on multiple charges for assaulting an Antifa -- Jake.
TAPPER: All right, Elle, thank you so much.
Joining us now to discuss is Elizabeth Neumann, the former assistant secretary of homeland security under President Trump until she resigned in April.
Elizabeth, thanks for joining us again.
I want to get to President Trump's remarks in a second. But you're an expert here. You worked directly on issues of white supremacy and hate groups as part of the Trump administration. Now, the Proud Boys are not a white supremacist group, per se, but they do have a history of being violent, anti-Semitic, anti-LGBT, neo-fascist and more.
For people at home who may not have heard of the Proud Boys until last night's debate, can you explain what they are and if they're a threat?
[16:25:01]
ELIZABETH NEUMANN, FORMER ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY UNDER PRESIDENT TRUMP: Thanks for having me on, Jake.
And that was excellent reporting by your colleague. I learned some things from watching that.
But -- but you're right. This is not a traditional white supremacist group. This isn't Atomwaffen. This isn't Rise Above Movement.
They're --they describe themselves, their founder describes themselves as a fraternity, they get together to drink beer to defend the Western male culture. And they kind of came out of a grievance associated with maybe what they perceived on the left to be criticism of whites, and sadly, unfortunately, because we tend to not listen to one another and understand what's behind some of the criticisms of, say, the racial injustice issues, you see this kind of counter response on the right of defending their whiteness.
TAPPER: Uh-huh.
NEUMANN: I wasn't involved in slavery in the past. I shouldn't be made to feel bad for being born white.
TAPPER: Right.
NEUMANN: And so the grievance there is that. And then they take it and they extract it and they make it more volatile and more extreme, and their viewpoints often trending towards violence in some of their members.
TAPPER: And as someone who worked on domestic threats such as white supremacy or the Proud Boys under this president, what's your reaction when you see now the president has now been asked multiple times still refuses to not only explicitly condemn white supremacy or denounce the support of white supremacists, but also seems to offer words of encouragement even or at least that's how the Proud Boys are taking it in terms of, you know, stand down and stand by?
NEUMANN: Look, I've been talking to people all throughout the last 24 hours. And people that study violent extremists view last night as a rallying cry, not just for the Proud Boys movement, which, as you pointed out, might not necessarily be white supremacists, but certainly his lack of condemnation of white supremacy last night was a rallying cry.
We're going to see more recruitment. We're going to see more likelihood for people to take up arms and defend whatever cause it is that they believe in, which is the opposite of what your want your leadership to do.
We want leaders to call for calm. We want leaders to say a little bit what the president said this afternoon, let law enforcement do their job, I was glad to see him say that, that was something that might tamp down a little bit. But it's really late in the news cycle for him to issue that clarification.
And the fact that he continues to not be able to just point-bank say, I condemn white supremacy. It boggles the mind. I'm sure his staff are just shaking their head even in those moments. The -- we just -- it would be -- it would go a long way to counter extremism if he would be clear about it.
But when he does things like this, when he does this kind of, you know, sure, I'm giving into what I have to say because I'm in this election, it -- his supporters take that, white supremacists take that and then they twist it and build a narrative and say, he's actually for us even though he can't directly say he's for us.
So it actually stirs up their momentum and movement even more when we have a news cycle like this.
TAPPER: And I'm old enough to remember Bob Dole when he got the Republican nomination in 1996 told bigots, if there are any bigots here -- I'm paraphrasing -- there are the doors over there, we don't want you as part of our party.
You tweeted that you and your team when you were at DHS that you tried to educate President Trump and his staff on the various threats posed by white supremacist groups or violent neo-fascist groups such as the Proud Boys.
What was the response you got when you tried to teach the president and his team about this?
NEUMANN: You know, there was a willingness to work with us on violence prevention. That's how they wanted to couch it, like, yes, we need to prevent violence, and a lot of talk about how the violence is coming from mental health crisis. We need to address mental health.
And there is definitely a need to support the mental health community and increase funding there. But that is not what this is. And the lack of willingness to define what the threat is, what the ideology is behind it is, in fact, leading us to more growth of this movement.
Every other threat that we face in national security, you always start with the definition of what the threat is. And the White House refused to call this what it was. They refused to frame it in terms of domestic terrorism.
But I find it hugely ironic that in May of this year, as we're approaching an election, the president's more than willing to label Antifa and talk about left-wing violence.
The statistics just do not support that left-wing violence is that lethal. It is a problem that overwhelmingly, 76 percent of lethal terrorist attacks in the last ten years have come not from ISIS, not from the left wing.
[16:30:00]
