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Too Much Politics Results to Murky Interpretation of Coronavirus; President Trump Not Pleased with the Huge BLM Mural; Schools Urge to Reopen this Fall Come What May; DeSean Jackson Takes a Lot of Heat Over Anti-Semitic Post. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired July 9, 2020 - 22:00   ET



CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: Thank you for watching. CNN Tonight with D. Lemon right now.

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: That's what a swimming pool -- that's what chlorine is, right? Put it in the water, basically -- anyway. Talking about --

CUOMO: Don't drink that either, by the way.

LEMON: No, no, no, no, no. Talk about not knowing what he's talking about. I have the luxury of actually getting to, you know, when you're on watching everything and getting to see the latest of what the president is saying while you're on the air.

Talking about not knowing what he's talking about, when he talks about how Mexico and other countries, how they're doing with the coronavirus, and the only reason that our numbers are so high is because we're testing people.

Well, the death numbers have nothing to do with testing. People are dying. We have more people dying than anyone. And so, I don't understand his logic when it comes to that. We're going to play some of it for you, but not knowing what he's talking about, listen, not knowing what you're talking about, using hyperbole, right, and embellishing things, OK, that's one thing. A president shouldn't do that. But not knowing what you're talking about and risking people's lives, that's a whole another level, Chris.

CUOMO: And you know you're doing it.


CUOMO: And you know you're doing it. That part is everything to me. Because, look, it's a one-punch knockout in terms of the debate on the politics of it, the logic of it. If he's right about testing then why are hospitalization rates spiking? It's the end of the debate. It's over.

But in terms of him knowing that it's not true. -- and it's not about the -- and it's not about the plus-minus on a tax cut where you can feel one way or the other. Or on trade policy. LEMON: Right.

CUOMO: But when you think black lives matter is somehow set against MAGA, that's a malignancy.


CUOMO: When you start thinking you don't care if people get sick or die, you need to win this thing. That's a sickness there's no cure for.

LEMON: Yes. Well, we shall see. And one person saying that his rally in Tulsa was probably a super spreader, right? Officials saying that. So, obviously don't care. No social distancing. No masks. Well --

CUOMO: Indoors, too. It was a killer.

LEMON: Indoors.

CUOMO: I mean, look, all these big events, we said it during the protests. People said we didn't, that's not true.

LEMON: Of course, we did.

CUOMO: We show it many times.

LEMON: And even at the funeral. Others weren't able to have funerals at George Floyd's funeral.

CUOMO: That's right.

LEMON: I said there was little social distancing. We had to talk about it.

CUOMO: It's all a risk.

LEMON: I said I would be derelict as I journalist if I didn't say it.


LEMON: Yes, but that's all -- that's all propaganda.

CUOMO: But inside is the worst of it.

LEMON: It the worst.

CUOMO: When you're inside. And when it comes with a message of, you know, I think the masks are a little B.S.


CUOMO: You know, we don't play that here. We're tough here. You know, if anything goes wrong, just take a little shot of bleach, you know, and call you in the morning.

LEMON: And inject it in a minute, one minute. I keep this with me all the time.

CUOMO: Are those lemons?

LEMON: Yes, they are. Someone made them. The same person who made this --

CUOMO: Always on brand.

LEMON: -- there was a pack in my office. I forgot to put them on your desk, but I will get them to you.

CUOMO: Who left that stack of magazines in my office with your face on them?

LEMON: I did not. I did not. I promise you.

CUOMO: You got to get over yourself. All right?

LEMON: I didn't do that. But listen, you have some. And they've got all kind of fishing stuff on them. And they're from my friend in Boston who made this one. So, I will -- if you want to go by my office, it's sitting there on, I think on my desk or on the table.

CUOMO: yes. I could use some ties.


CUOMO: Is the door open?

LEMON: I don't know. It's locked.

CUOMO: Do you have any black ties?

LEMON: Thank you. See you.

This is CNN Tonight. I'm Don Lemon.

Here's our breaking news. This country seeing its highest single-day number of coronavirus cases tonight with, OK, here it is, 60,646. Florida, California, Texas, all announcing single-day record death tolls and Dr. Anthony Fauci bluntly says this.


DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: As a country, when you compare us to other countries, I don't think you can say we're doing great. I mean, we're just not.


LEMON: He's right. We're not. Why don't you look at it this way? More Americans have died in five months from this virus than died in the Vietnam War. More than died on 9/11. More than died in Afghanistan. And more than died in Iraq. Iraq. All of that combined, OK? Like I said, this is a tragedy, and it didn't have to be this way. The

question, the life or death question that we have to answer is, what went wrong? What went wrong? And, frankly, the answer is the sheer incompetence of the White House. Incompetence actually may not be strong enough. This is sheer negligence.

The president encouraging states to reopen. Even though they didn't meet his own guidelines. Demanding that schools reopen and complaining that the CDC's guidelines are too tough. Dr. Fauci says this is all gotten political and it shouldn't be.



FAUCI: One of the problems we're facing is that in the middle of trying to fight an unprecedented, historic pandemic, there is still divisiveness, there's divisiveness politically. We can see that when we look at the different viewpoints that people take towards this. We are all in this together, and we can get through this.


LEMON: Gee, I wonder how that happened.


DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Democrats are politicizing the coronavirus. One of my people came up to me and said, Mr. President, they tried to beat you on Russia, Russia, Russia. That didn't work out too well. They couldn't do it. They tried the impeachment hoax. That was on a perfect conversation.


TRUMP: They tried anything. They tried it over and over. And this is their new hoax.

If we came into this room today and said the battle is over, we have won. It's 100 percent gone, the Democrats would say the president has done a horrible job. Now they're giving you the other. It's called testing, testing. But they don't want to use all of the capacity that we've created. We have tremendous capacity. Dr. Birx will be explaining that. They know that. The governors know that. The Democrat governors know that. They're the ones that are complaining.

With Governor Cuomo, he had a chance to order 16,000 ventilators two years ago and he turned it down. He turned down the chance. Now, he can't be blaming us.

And I say, Mike, don't call the governor of Washington. You're wasting your time with him. Don't call the woman in Michigan. It doesn't make any difference what happens.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't call the governor of Washington?

TRUMP: You know what I say? If they don't treat you right, I don't call.

They think it's going to be good for them politically, so they keep the schools closed. No way. So, we're very much going to put pressure on governors and everybody else to open the schools, to get them open, and it's very important.


LEMON: A hoax. It's politics. One hundred thirty-three thousand people? That's a hoax? That's politics? People, lives gone. OK. I mean, in just -- that's a short sample of what this president has said and is saying. Continually looking for someone, anyone else to blame. While more and more Americans are dying every day. One hundred thirty- three thousand, 36,000. That's what went wrong.

In the face of all of this, the president is just doubling down today demanding that America's schools reopen. Ready or not. And suggesting against all medical evidence that children's immune systems protect them from the virus.


TRUMP: Children, in many cases, the immune system is so powerful, so strong, but the young and the healthy to safely return to work and to school. We have to open our schools.


TRUMP: Open our schools. Stop this nonsense. We open our schools. Germany, Norway, so many countries right now, they're opened, the schools are open and they're doing just fine and they're opening in the fall. So, we have to get our schools open.

Denmark, Sweden. We have to get our schools open and stop this political nonsense. And it's only political nonsense. It's politics.


LEMON: There you go. Blaming politics again. The president only cares about one thing. Come on, you guys know that, right? He only cares about how this looks in November. That's why he's still spreading false claims on testing. This is what he said just tonight in an interview. Watch.


TRUMP: Let me just make one statement, though. We do testing, like nobody's ever done testing. And when we test, the more you test, the more cases you find. Other countries, you know when they test, and I ask them all, they test when somebody's not feeling well or when somebody walks into a hospital.

So, they don't have tests. They have tests that are very limited. We have massive, 40, 45 million people have been tested. It's a record and our tests are the best. So, we have cases all over the place. Most of those cases immediately get better, they get, you know, people, they're young people, they have sniffles and two days later they're fine. They're not sick to start off with. They're asymptomatic.

A lot of things happen, and what we're doing with all of these tests that we're doing all over the country. Test, everybody tests. Pull-up parking lots, everything else.


What we've done is we've created a tremendous number of cases. Everybody else, can you imagine if China tested like we test? They don't. Can you imagine if other big countries, the bigger countries tested like we -- or Germany. We've tested many, many, many times even proportionately the number of people that other countries have tested.

But I was with, as an example, a great gentleman yesterday, the president of Mexico. And they're having a hard time, especially in Mexico City. They test when somebody is sick or when somebody goes into the hospital. And that's a different way of doing it and it's just fine.

And we are testing and creating -- it's the greatest thing that ever happened for the opposite party, but we're doing something that nobody's ever done to the extent, and we're doing a great job.


LEMON: He said can you imagine in that a lot, right? I just -- when I -- first time I had to call the president a racist, the first time I had to say he was lying, I couldn't imagine say that about a president of the United States, obviously, the person who has less respect for the office than I do.

But can you imagine having to say this? I can't imagine having to say this now about the President of the United States. He has no idea what he is talking about. No idea. And that's got to be really scary for you. I know it's scary for me. Because he is denying reality.

He is desperately hoping to save his re-election chances. How can he do that? Well, with more than 133,000 Americans having lost their lives to the coronavirus on his watch. A conversation about public health is not a conversation that this president wants to have. So, what does he do? He does what he always does, right? He tries to divide us. Lashing out over growing calls to remove confederate monuments across the country.


TRUMP: Our nation is witnessing a merciless campaign to wipe out our history, defame our heroes, erase our values, and indoctrinate our children.


LEMON: Our history. Our heroes. Our values. Who are these heroes? What were their values? Maybe he should listen to his own chairman of the joint chiefs, General Mark Milley, telling the House this today.


MARK MILLEY, U.S. CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: The confederacy, the American Civil War was fought and it was an act of rebellion, it was an act of treason at the time against the union, against the stars and stripes, against the U.S. Constitution, and those officers turned their back on their oath.


LEMON: Yes, what he said. Plus, there was the, you know, slavery part. Remember, this president personally intervened to get a toppled confederate statue in D.C. put back up. In 2020. And he is sticking to his old playbook, labelling black lives matter a symbol of hate. And telling Sean Hannity this tonight about black lives matters sign, the sign painted in the middle of Fifth Avenue today right in front of Trump tower.


TRUMP: I was very nice to Mayor de Blasio. I got him ventilators when he needed them. I got him hospital help when he needed it. I got him everything he needed. I got him the gowns. I got him the masks. I got him everything. The shields. I got that man everything.

I spoke to him many times. He couldn't have been nicer and then he throws a big black lives matter sign right down in the middle of Fifth Avenue. And all merchants along Fifth Avenue are furious. They are furious. And the whole city is furious. The city is a city that's enraged.


LEMON: All right. So, let's think about that logic, OK? Think about that logic. OK? Think about what he just said, really. Be objective here. I gave him ventilators. How dare he paint black lives matter in the street. Does that make any sense to you? Joe Biden calling out his cynical divisiveness.


JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald Trump cynically claims that he is defending American heritage by embracing the confederate flag and public monuments of generals who rebelled against and were treasonous against the United States of America. People who tried to permanently rip this nation apart.

I see a different America than Trump. One that despite all our flaws and shortcomings and failings is still, after more than two centuries, dedicated to equality, liberty and human dignity.


LEMON: We've got a lot more to come on all of this tonight. Our national conversation on race and the divisiveness of this presidency.

[22:15:04] And it is -- this is just kind of tough conversation, the kind of thing we talk about and I have on my new podcast, Silence is Not an Option. I hope you'll join me for the podcast, Silence is Not an Option. You can find it on Apple podcasts or wherever you get your favorite podcast on your favorite podcast app.

So, we have some breaking news tonight about this country. Seeing its highest single-day total of new coronavirus cases with 60,646. I'm going to ask the experts what went wrong and how do we turn this around.


LEMON: Here's our breaking news. The U.S. sees a record number of new coronavirus cases in a single day today. With more than 60,000 new cases reported. The virus surging in at least 33 states, more than 3.1 million confirmed cases in the U.S. since the pandemic took hold, more than 133,000 Americans have died.


Here's what Dr. Anthony Fauci was saying that some states reopened too soon, states that include Florida and Arizona. Two states where that -- this virus is raging.

I want to bring in now CNN medical analyst, Dr. Larry Brilliant who is an epidemiologist -- epidemiologist, and William Haseltine, a professor -- former professor at Harvard Medical School. So good to have you on.

Let's see, professor, why don't we start with you. Let's talk about California, Florida and Texas. They all reported a record single-day number of coronavirus deaths. How did the U.S. fail so badly at the coronavirus response, you know, and the president says we're doing great, but how did we fail so badly?

WILLIAM HASELTINE, FORMER PROFESSOR, HARVARD MEDICAL SCHOOL: We've missed three of the milestones that it takes to control an epidemic like this. You need leadership, which is clear, consistent, credible and compassionate, and we don't have that.

We need a national public health service that's capable of executing from a central organization in the federal government, through the states, to the local communities and we don't have that.

And finally, as you have heard, we have a divided polity, the people are divided, and we don't have a sense of solidarity that we take care of one another. Some countries can get by with two out of those three. We don't have any of the three. We haven't controlled the infection and now it's out of control because we opened too early.

LEMON: Dr. Brilliant, President Trump plans to visit Walter Reed. He said that tonight. He's going to do it on Saturday. He also said that he plans to wear a mask. He says he has no problem with masks. And I quote here, "it's up to you."

My question is, when projections show universal mask-wearing could save 45,000 lives, should it be mandated?

LARRY BRILLIANT, CNN MEDICAL ANALSYT: That's a good question. If we had a vaccine that would save 45,000 lives we would -- we would certainly put all those social bumpers in to make sure people used it and the incentives. We should find a way to incentivize mask-wearing.

I think one way would be to make people who don't want to have a mask unable to go to certain places. It's like having a license. You don't want somebody to come in your business place or your school or your church if they're bringing the virus in. That's an unwanted visitor.

LEMON: But you -- but you see people around the country fighting that. You see all the videos online, even when stores have the policy or places of businesses -- business have those policies, people still don't follow the rules. And there aren't any real consequences to it, doctor.

BRILLIANT: It's insane that we've made a mask, which should be a symbol of public health, a symbol of liberation from this pandemic, into a political symbol. It doesn't make any sense except that we seem to be living, Don, in a topsy-turvy world where up is down.

LEMON: Yes. Listen, I've got -- if want to ask you, Professor Haseltine, that the president is pushing for schools across this country to reopen, despite the virus surging in 33 states. The question every parent and educator is asking is, is it safe? Are these decisions being made with public health and not politics in mind?

HASELTINE: Well, you know, we've had a recommendation from the CDC about what we should do if we're going to open the schools. That recommendation has been withdrawn. New recommendations are being drawn up. It's almost like, the opening redux. We had a recommendation from the CDC. It was buried. It was altered. And we're living with the consequence. This consequence may affect our children.

Now, we have to remember that everybody says that young children aren't so susceptible, but they do get infected and some of them get desperately ill. I have a friend who has a child who is desperately ill from this disease, so it does affect children.

But we have to remember that half the schoolchildren from seventh grade to 12th grade have the same susceptibility as you or I. It is a serious problem. We're not only dealing with young kids when we're talking about schools. We're talking about high schools. And high schools are the same susceptibility. They get sick.

So, we have to remember that. And we're also then talking about colleges. We're talking about a third of our population when we're talking about schools, and are we going to put them at the same kind of risk? The other thing is risk varies by geographical area.


Some places it may be OK under careful circumstances to open schools, and other places, like Houston today, like Miami, like parts of Los Angeles, you wouldn't dream of doing that. You wouldn't dream of sending your precious child to a school in those cities today.

LEMON: Thank you both. I appreciate it. By the way, the CDC said earlier that they're confident in the school reopening guidelines, despite what the president has said. They say that they're not going to change them. We'll see. Thank you. I appreciate it.

Hospitals seeing dire shortages of ICU bed as the coronavirus surges in multiple states. Two front line physicians in red state hot spots, well, they're going to tell me what they are facing. Next.


LEMON: The United States seeing a record number of new coronavirus cases in a single day. Sixty thousand six hundred and forty-six. Texas reporting a record number of deaths today. And Governor Greg Abbott says he expects next week's number will be even worse.


GOV. GREG ABBOTT (R-TX): Also, now the mandate in Texas for people to wear masks because it is the safest way that we can continue to keep businesses open and keep people employed while also containing the spread of the coronavirus.



LEMON: Well, Governor Abbott is right, masks are essential. They save lives. So why did he actively prevent local Texas officials from mandating masks? I wonder if his state would be seeing record-high hospitalization rates if Texans had all been wearing masks months ago like many mayors wanted.

Let's discuss now. Dr. Colleen Kraft is here. She is the associate chief medical officer at Emory University Hospital. Dr. Marc Boom is here as well. He is the president and CEO of the Houston Methodist Hospital Network. So good to have both of you doctors on.

Dr. Boom, I'm going to start with you. You know, Texas is reporting 105 coronavirus deaths today, highest single-day increase, over 9,700 new cases just today. How dire is the situation in your state?

MARC BOOM, PRESIDENT AND CEO, HOUSTON METHODIST HOSPITAL: So, you know, I can speak to Houston specifically, since I'm living that every day. It's a challenging situation, there's no question. I wouldn't use the word dire, but no question the virus has been exploding and getting out of control in our city.

And we're starting to see some glimmer of hope with that. It increased very rapidly during the month of June and into early this month. We've seen a little bit of leveling off at extremely high levels still, but a little leveling off in some of the testing.

Starting to see that as a little bit of a glimmer of hope that we're starting to bring this under a little better under control. And just seeing the very first signs of perhaps some flattening or slowing down in the rate of increase in hospitalizations.

Put that in perspective, on Memorial Day we had about 100 patients in- house. We have well over 700 now, a little over six weeks later, so it's been quite a challenge. We have 2,400 beds. We're still managing it, but our people are working incredibly hard and we're seeing countless people.

LEMON: Well, that's my next question to you. But is there concern -- you said it's leveling off, which is good news. Are you concerned about hospitals being able to keep up?

BOOM: Well, of course. But we look at the situation when we project out, you know, we can handle another couple, three, maybe even four weeks of continued increases like this. It gets increasingly difficult every day. After some point around there, of course it can't go on indefinitely and things get very out of control.

And so we've been working really hard with the citizens of Houston, with all of our elected officials, others, to really make sure that we have uniform masking, that we have everybody using social distancing, wearing a mask, et cetera. And I think that's starting to take hold.

We're seeing the transmission rates come down when we look at some of those data. And as I said, just seeing faint inklings, we're not ready to declare by any stretch that we're there yet. A little worried what happened over the Fourth of July. So, could that sort of reload things, so to speak? But we're watching that very carefully. Our teams are doing a magnificent job. I'm so proud of all of them.

LEMON: All right.

BOOM: We're there to serve the citizens of Houston with COVID or without.

LEMON: Well, masks work. So, let's hope folks do that, and the social distancing.

Dr. Kraft, let's bring you in. You've been standing by -- sitting by patiently here. Georgia is also seeing a huge spike in cases in hospitalizations. It's one of the first states to lift restrictions. Is that what this rise comes down to, opening too early, too soon?

COLLEEN KRAFT, ASSOCIATE CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER, EMORY UNIVERSITY HOSPITAL: I think it's just in general a lack of understanding that it's personal responsibility and that we're still living with COVID. I think we reopened these -- our states, and I think for some people the mind-set was we've reopened, therefore, we go back to normal.

And there wasn't sort of a sense of creativity and innovation around living with COVID. We are capable of doing risk assessments and figuring out how we can go about our daily activities by using simple precautions to be able to have reduced or basically essentially eliminate virus transmission, and we're not doing that.

It sort of, was a binary, we either have COVID or we don't have COVID and now we've been living like COVID is not among us, and that has led to this incredibly steep curve. So, we're not even talking about flattening anything. We are just in an upward trajectory, even with quadrupling our admissions this week alone.

LEMON: Goodness. So, let's discuss that because your stories are similar, Dr. Kraft, to the New York City doctors I spoke to in March and April. We have been through this before. Why didn't Americans learn their lesson?

KRAFT: I think it's really about, you know, it's about this idea of personal responsibility, and your guests on the previous segment I think said it well about leadership, consistency and being clear.

And so, I would just say in the absence of a clear message, let the message be take control of your situation, and in a sense of wearing a mask and using hand sanitizer and prevent transmission like you would want to prevent any other contiguous disease.

And so, I think it's pretty basic. I think all that is available, but we're sort of not seeing sort of the social solidarity, I think that was mentioned in the previous segment, that we really need to beat this.


All of us want to get back to our normal lives. We have patients now that are in our hospital system along with our COVID patients that have been putting off their chemotherapy and their life-saving treatment for months waiting until after COVID and now they're right back in the mix with even a higher rate of COVID among our community.

And so, we've really got to understand that even if it's not about us, it really has to be about our community and keeping everyone safe.

LEMON: Well, Dr. Kraft, listen, I hope the situation gets better there for you in Georgia. Dr. Boom in Houston, I'm glad that you see a glimmer of hope, so let's hope it stays that way, and the next time you're on, let's hope we have better news from both of you. Thank you very much. I appreciate it.

BOOM: We certainly hope so.

KRAFT: Thank you.

BOOM: Thank you.

LEMON: Thank you.

New York City sending a message to the president, painting a huge black lives matter mural right outside Trump tower and the president doesn't like it much. That's next.



LEMON: President Trump just hates this. New York City painting the words black lives matter in giant yellow letters on Fifth Avenue, right in front of Trump tower.

I want to discuss now with political analyst Jared Yates Sexton, the author of "American Rule," and Iesha Sekou, CEO and founder of Street Corner Resources. Her organization helped in painting the mural. Good evening to both of you. I'm so glad that you're on. Iesha, can you hear me? You're there, right?


LEMON: OK. Good. All right. Great.

SEKOU: And I can hear you.

LEMON: So, you had a large group of people help paint the BLM mural outside of Trump tower. You know the president isn't receptive to this message, but what do you hope comes of it?

SEKOU: Well, the thing I hope for is not necessarily Donald Trump, but for our young people. You know, I encourage them to join us this morning and also the mayor asked if they, you know, invited them and asked if they would come, and I was grateful, and I encouraged it because this is historical.

It's historical and it's hopeful and young people were excited. They were ready to grab the rollers and start painting before it was time. I had to calm them down and say they have to wait. But the thing that I'm really hoping for is that these young people see their connection to something, although symbolic, but historical.

LEMON: Got it.

SEKOU: And see the future on the horizon. That things in our country, in our city, our state can change, that people can begin to make change as long as they take part in the process. And I'm really grateful -- I was actually -- I don't know if you know this -- on the group of folks that suggested it. I'm one of the people that suggested that black lives matter be painted on the streets.


SEKOU: Of New York, every borough and then that streets be renamed --


LEMON: I got it, Iesha. Thank you very much. All right, I want to bring Jared in. Make sure we have time for everyone. So, Jared, listen, President Trump tweeted last week that the mural would denigrate the area. He's also called the words a, quote, "symbol of hate," and tonight he is saying this about Mayor de Blasio and the mural. Watch this.


MILLEY: The way we should do it matters as much as that we should do it. So, we need to have -- I've recommended a commission of folks to take a hard look at the bases, the statues, the names, all of this stuff so see if we can have a logical discussion.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, General Milley.


LEMON: OK. Wrong sound bite. So, anyway, he was on, he was upset and enraged, obviously, because it was -- OK, let's play it. Here it is.


TRUMP: I was very nice to Mayor de Blasio. I got him ventilators when he needed them. I got him hospital help when he needed it. I got him everything he needed. I got him the gowns. I got him the masks. I got him everything. The shields. I got that man everything.

I spoke to him many times. He couldn't have been nicer. And then he throws a big black lives matter sign right down in the middle of Fifth Avenue. And all merchants along Fifth Avenue are furious. They are furious. And the whole city is furious. The city is a city that's enraged.


LEMON: Interesting. OK, so, Jared, what do you think about that? Because you say these murals are the new monuments. Explain what you mean.

JARED YATES SEXTON, POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, isn't is something that the President of the United States takes it as a personal insult, the idea that black lives matter? I mean, that's really what Trump is what it boils down to, right? It's the idea of a mythology of America where black lives are disposable and white supremacy is always brimming right underneath the surface.

You know, I think what we need to keep in mind is that tearing down monuments and creating new ones is as American as America gets. I mean, 1776, the first thing that went was a statue of King George. And what we're seeing right now is a new generation that is rejecting this past of white supremacy and oppression, and these murals are the new monuments, and it's amazing that they're choosing to erect these things and build these things based on basic human decency.

And I think the fact that the president is insulted tells them that they're doing the right thing.

LEMON: Iesha, you mentioned Mayor Bill de Blasio. You invited him. He was out painting the mural today. While we have seen black lives matter murals now in cities across the country, some activists say that they aren't enough without real policy change. That's not enough without real policy change. What are you hoping happens now?

SEKOU: Well, one, a lot of discussion -- I've been on a number of Zooms with the mayor, meetings, and so Mayor de Blasio is open to hearing new ideas. You know, some of us have been a little tough on him, but I see that change is on the horizon. He's asking our communities across New York City to give input and feedback. [22:45:01]

So, there were, like, 30, 40 people leaders and elected officials on a Zoom making suggestions around things that can happen in our community to help shape it better including police policy and things around the police behavior.

So, I'm hopeful. I'm hopeful for that reason as well. That we're not distanced from the mayor. We are more connected to the mayor. The mayor is more involved in reaching out to the community and the community is feeling stronger and better about being able to give feedback.

So, I'm hoping for change in a lot of ways. I'm glad that the chokehold bill has passed and has become law. That's hopeful. I'm really happy that we're looking at police behavior, not only on paper, but there is an open call for any video, any proof where police have been brutal and practicing police brutality that even our, you know, our city is just opening up to it.

They're hearing more about what needs to be done and what has been done that has hurt black people for a very long time. So, I'm looking for change. Change that will make our sons and our daughters feel more comfortable as they move around this great city and not just here, but even around the country.

Because New York is a leader. And other states and cities will follow what we do. So, we're hoping that what happens here in New York impacts the country and the world.


SEKOU: And so, I stand with those who are making change.

LEMON: All right. Jared, listen, just a short amount of time here, but where do you see -- what do you see happening next as it comes to the -- the signs being painted and murals and so forth, this whole discussion that we're having in the country?

SEXTON: I think these murals and these signs and these monuments are symbols of change that is slowly deconstructing a systematically racist white supremacist system. So, I think this is the beginning and I think it's going to spur on change and certainly going to inspire hope in people who are going to change things for the better.

LEMON: All right. Thank you both. I appreciate your time. I'll have you both back.

I've got more with Jared Yates Sexton in my new podcast, the new episode of my podcast, Silence is Not an Option, where we take on hard conversations about being black in America. You can find it on Apple podcasts or your favorite podcast app.

Jewish players in the NFL speaking out in response to anti-Semitic social post by DeSean Jackson. Mitchell Schwartz of the Kansas City Chiefs, there he is, he is saying we can all do better. Here's going to join me next.



LEMON: NFL players of all backgrounds are reacting to anti-Semitic posts from Philadelphia Eagles star DeSean Jackson, including some of the league's Jewish players.

Mitchell Schwartz from the Super Bowl champion Kansas City Chiefs posted this on Instagram. He says, as a Jewish American in the NFL I stand with my brothers of all races and creeds against any form of discrimination or hate. My hope is we can use this moment to shed light and bring awareness to the hate and oppression of the Jewish community still facing -- the Jewish community still facing strong -- still facing while standing strong, excuse me, with the Black Lives Matter movement. We can only have change if we denounce racism and bias in all its forms. We can all do better.

He joins me now. Thank you, I agree. We can all do better. Mitchell, thank you. I appreciate it. You were actually teammates with DeSean Jackson in college. What do you think when you saw that post on Instagram?

MITCHELL SCHWARTZ, OFFENSIVE TACKLE, KANSAS CITY CHIEFS: The first thing is I think you're just surprised, you know, I think any time Hitler's name is attached to any sort of thing, you would imagine that people would stay away from that.

So, I think that was the first thing that you realize, hey, this probably isn't that great. Then you start reading it and you realize how bad the wording was. You know, I don't think, I truly don't think DeSean meant any sort of hate or anything. I think it came from a place of ignorance. And that's something that we're seeing with him in the past couple of days, being able to reach out to communities and learn more about him.

But it's bad. I mean, we've learned, you know, especially this past couple of months and we have to speak out when we see things that aren't right. And you know, that wasn't right and I'm glad people are speaking out about it.

LEMON: Yes. I was just going to ask you, but you know, you said you thought it came from a place of ignorance, right? And not that he meant any harm by it, but it certainly caused some harm. So, you know him. Did you reach out to him? Did you -- have you heard anything?

SCHWARTZ: No. I mean, we crossed paths for just one season and we didn't get to know each other too well. So, I haven't spoken to him directly. But it seems like, I mean, the Eagles have, you know, a Jewish owner and a Jewish general manager. I know they've been talking to him a lot.

You know, he's reached out to the Jewish community there and to rabbis, and other folks. And so, I know he's only got a support system of Jewish people to kind of guide him through this. So, you know, I trust him. Obviously, those the Jeffrey Lurie and Howie Roseman they know him a lot better than I necessarily do, so I think they can have a better sense of, you know, what he -- what it looks actually in his heart and what he meant by it.

LEMON: What would you say to him?

SCHWARTZ: I would say just say, our platforms are immense. I think we're realizing how much power we have, you know, obviously on the field, but also off as well. And so, you know, social media in general, it's just such a huge responsibility, and you know, we have to really take that seriously.

Like I said, the past couple of months we realized how much power we have, how much we can change things for the better, for our generation and for future generations. And so, making sure you kind of read through it a couple of times. Always trying to figure out exactly what the wording is.


You know, you hear the stuff growing up Jewish that Jews control the weather, Jews control this. It's just ridiculous. I mean, the anti- Semitic stuff is out there. It's sad that it's still out there. It's been on the rise in the country in the past few years. I think over the last four or five years it's up, 40 percent, 50 percent. Hate crimes are at all-time highs against Jewish people.

So, it's just, I don't know why it's happening more, but we have an opportunity now to bring light to it and to hopefully make change for the better.

LEMON: Well, Mitchell, I'm grateful that you use your platform to -- you're using your platform to speak out about these things. And I'm very grateful that you appeared on this show tonight. Thank you so much. Be safe, OK?

SCHWARTZ: Thank you, you too.

LEMON: Good luck, good luck this season.

SCHWARTZ: Thank you.

LEMON: Here's ow breaking news tonight. This country seeing its highest single day total of new coronavirus cases with 60,646. Dr. Anthony Fauci saying we aren't doing great. That's the latest, next.