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Official: Sri Lanka Attack Retaliation For NZ Mosque Attack; Democratic Presidential Candidates Split On Impeaching Trump; Leading Dem Candidates Make Their Case In CNN Town Halls; Rep. Eric Swalwell (D-CA) Interview In Making His Case For His Presidential Run. Aired 7- 7:30a ET

Aired April 23, 2019 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[07:00:00] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: At this moment police in the country's capital they are in high alert as they search for two new vehicles that might be carrying explosives.

CNN's Ivan Watson is live in Negombo in Sri Lanka with the breaking details on this. Ivan?

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, John and Alisyn. This was a startling assertion coming from the state defense minister in parliament, saying that he believes that this deadly wave of organized suicide bombings on Easter Sunday, that killed more than 300 people, wounded more than 500, that they were the work of a local Islamist extremist group identified as National Thowheeth Jama'ath.

And, as you mentioned, saying that this was retaliation for last month's grizzly (ph) mosque mass shootings in Christchurch, New Zealand.

Now, I covered the aftermath of those massacres, and now I'm at St. Sebastian Church here, which is one of three churches that was targeted on Easter Sunday. You can still see the flowers, the floral arrangements around the altar there.

And police, for the cleanup and forensics investigation there, among the walls that are spattered with blood here. And if it is true, and we haven't gotten a formal claim of responsibility, that this was, in some twisted way, retaliation, we are dealing with mad men in both locations, in Christchurch and here. Their weapons may be different, but the end result is the same. The mass murder of innocent civilians who were worshipping together. And it is all on the same foundation of hatred of somebody.

Meanwhile, the investigation does go on. The authorities here say they've arrested at least 40 people in connection with the attacks here in Sri Lanka. All believed to be Sri Lankan individuals. And they're worried about follow-up attacks.

For instance, on high alert in Colombo, all police stations worried about a vehicle suspected of being of carrying explosives. We witnessed a controlled detonation by bomb squad of one vehicle on Monday, that turned out to be full explosives. And the blast was massive and sent terror through locals. So there is real fear out there in Sri Lanka. As one minister put it, they're dealing with a brand-new type of terrorism in this country. John and Alisyn?

BERMAN: All right. Ivan, we're going to pick up on that point right there. Because breaking in Colombo, all police stations in that capital city are on high alert as they look for a truck and van that might be carrying explosives right now.

Our Will Ripley is live in Colombo with the breaking details. Will, what have you learned?

WILL RIPLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is something that a lot of people here on the ground in Colombo are worried about, John. Because the fact is, they don't know if there are more suspected terrorists out there, and they don't know what locations they might strike next.

I just want to show you some of the security procedures that are in place. This is a hole tell that up until a couple of days ago, you could have walked right into. No problem. Now, they have all this tent set up, they have bomb-sniffing dogs, they have soldiers who are stationed, they have the gates closed.

And as we walk toward the street, you can see, and this is a sight all over the city. You have heavily armed soldiers and security officers, police officers who are here. And now, people are being told to keep their eye on the streets, which are open after the curfew last night.

There is now traffic resuming again, but people are being told to be on alert for either a truck or a van that could be carrying explosives. So obviously, this street was a ghost town last night. You can see cars are moving out here again. But there is still a sense of unease in this city.

That said, I saw people who were out, gathering at groups at shrines around the city praying for the people who were killed. The more than 300 people who were killed. People saying that even though they're afraid that they could be attacked, they also want to show solidarity for the victims of the terrorist incident and don't want to let the terrorists keep them locked inside their homes. John and Alisyn?

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you, Will, very much, for that alarming report. We'll check back with you.

Turning to our other top story here at home, for the first time, several leading Democratic presidential candidates took the same stage as CNN hosted five town halls last night.

BERMAN: Which is a mere fraction, by the way, of the field.

CAMEROTA: It is but it was a feat.

BERMAN: It was. It really was. CAMEROTA: You know, of timing. The hopefuls gave their takes on

issues including free tuition for college, voting rights for felons, and the potential for impeaching President Trump. Here's a taste.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D-CA) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I believe Congress should take the steps toward impeachment.

MAYOR PETE BUTTIGIEG (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think he's made it pretty clear he deserves impeachment. I'll also leave it to the House and Senate to figure that out.

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If there is going to be any accountability, that accountability has to come from the Congress.

[07:05:04] SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Congress has got to take a hard look. At the end of the day, what is most important to me is to see Donald Trump not re-elected president.

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There is a third way to hold this person accountable, and that is by defeating him in the 2020 election.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: All right, joining us now to talk about this and so much more, we have Joe Lockhart, White House Press Secretary under President Clinton, Nia Malika-Handerson, CNN's Senior Political Reporter, and Jeffrey Toobin, CNN Chief Legal Analyst. Great to have you all at the table with us. Joe, you know something about impeachment.

JOE LOCKHART, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I do.

CAMEROTA: What did you hear in their answers, other than the ambivalence the Democrats are feeling right now?

LOCKHART: Yes, I think the presidential candidates, you know, you tend to get -- when one comes out strongly, Elizabeth Warren, there tends to be a lot of pressure to follow. So I think you heard a pretty consistent call last night for we've got to take steps toward impeachment, but a good bit of wiggle room for people there.

You know, I think Nancy Pelosi yesterday was pretty effective in saying, let's do all the things we need to do to investigate, but let's not call it impeachment. Because I think there's a lot of peril, once you start a formal impeachment process.

BERMAN: I happened to read the New York Times --

LOCKHART: Yes.

BERMAN: -- which is a big selling paper.

CAMEROTA: This.

LOCKHART: Yes.

BERMAN: And I happened to notice there was an opted by someone named Joe Lockhart in this paper.

LOCKHART: Yes.

BERMAN: And Joe, you are advising Democrats to stay away from impeachment.

LOCKHART: Right. I'm advising Democrats to do all of the public hearings and bring Don McGhan to the Hill, Bob Mueller to the Hill, Bill Barr to the Hill.

CAMEROTA: To what end?

BERMAN: It's like friends with benefits, the way you're asking.

LOCKHART: Yes, yes, basically to expose and to highlight the corruption in the Trump administration. To bring to life the Mueller report. But I firmly believe, and this is based on the idea that the American public is not steeped in all of this, doesn't have a full understanding of the process.

I believe that if the President is impeached in the House and acquitted in the senate, most Americans will say, well, he's innocent. And that will be vindication.

NIA MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: The President will certainly see it that way, as well, right? He's already saying from the Mueller report that he is exonerated, no collusion, no obstruction of justice, in the president's words. You can imagine -- and he would get off in the Senate. I mean, there is no question that Republicans would not vote for impeachment. You hear him saying he is vindicated.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: Right. I think there are less differences among the Democrats than it may appear. I think, you know, everyone is, in effect, taking Joe's advice, which is, do the investigation. I think the House Judiciary Committee calling Don McGhan, whose account is probably the most dramatic in the Mueller report, have him testify in public.

I mean the idea that because something is described in a 444-page, single spaced document, everyone in America knows about it, is ridiculous. I mean, the most of us get our news from screens in one way or another. And to see Don McGhan on a screen is very different from seeing his name in this report. And Democrats I think are unified on the idea that that sort of investigation is appropriate now. And impeachment is something for down the road or never.

BERMAN: Well, come back. Go ahead, Joe.

LOCKHART: Well, just two quick points I think the piece makes. You know, one is that everybody -- there's a lot of people, particularly experts saying that Congress now must act because there is a legal president. The constitution, the framers (ph) wrote this to be a political decision. They wouldn't have given it to Congress politicians if they didn't think politicians should make a political decision.

The second thing is I think there is a real opportunity for Democrats. The Republican Party has become Trump. And Trump going into 2020 with a bunch of Republicans afraid to challenge him, I think is an enormous opportunity for Democrats to win back the Senate and to realign our politics.

BERMAN: So the Democrats have to choose what they are going to become and that's what we saw on stage last night in these series of town halls, CNN town halls.

Nia, what I was struck by were the real differences in policy that started emerging on several issues. And one of the most pronounced, and to me one of the most unexpected, was Bernie Sanders coming out and not just saying convicted felons should have the right to vote, but people in prison should have the right to vote. So, listen to what Bernie Sanders says and listen to how Pete Buttigieg, who came on after him, responded to it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANDERS: I think the right to vote is inherent to our democracy. Yes, even for terrible people.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: People who are convicted, in prison, like the Boston marathon bomber, on death row, people who are convicted of sexual assault, they should be able vote?

[07:10:01] HARRIS: I think we should have that conversation.

BUTTIGIEG: Well incarcerated?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

BUTTIGIEG: No, I don't think so.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So what you saw there was Bernie Sanders take a position which I think surprise a lot of people. Sanders and Kamala Harris taking the position where she's taken on a number of things which --

HENDERSON: Which is sort of no position. Let's talk about it more.

(CROSSTALK)

TOOBIN: Take new position, that we should have a conversation about.

CAMEROTA: Like at a town hall?

HENDERSON: Yes, yes, exactly.

BERMAN: It's pretty lame, I know. And then Pete Buttigieg say no

HENDERSON: Yes, he -- I think had certainly a much more firm answer than Kamala Harris. She had does have this sort of take of dodging. I think she did that three or four times last night. It's likely something that he's going to get criticize --

CAMEROTA: But it's interesting because she is a former prosecutor. I mean --

HENDERSON: She is in --

CAMEROTA: -- and that she knows about this. Sure.

HENDERSON: -- you would think she thought about it much more.

CAMEROTA: I mean, they sprung it on her.

HENDERSON: Yes.

CAMEROTA: So obviously, she hasn't processed it entirely, but she is a prosecutor.

HENDERSON: She is a prosecutor. And she also just saw, perhaps, Bernie Sanders address it in a town hall, and likely thinking that she might get the same question.

CAMEROTA: I don't know, are they in soundproof booths?

HENDERSON: I don't think you're --

(CROSSTALK)

BERMAN: Informatically sealed.

LOCKHART: That would be cool.

(CROSSTALK)

CAMEROTA: That's why if don't know.

HENDERSON: Maybe next time.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

HENDERSON: And we'd get video of that. That'd be cool. But yes, I mean this is an issue. And partly, this is something that Democrats obviously want to talk about, criminal justice reform are more broadly, voting rights as well, should people in jail, certainly out of jail or get their voting rights restored? And Bernie Sanders say, you know, very hard and fast position here, saying that anyone incarcerated, no matter who they are and how egregious their crime, should have the right to vote while incarcerated.

TOOBIN: Even though Florida elected a Republican senator and Republican governor in 2018, they did pass voter initiatives that said, convicted felons who are out of prison -- CAMEROTA: Right.

TOOBIN: -- not in prison.

BERMAN: But that's very different.

HENDERSON: Yes, there's -- and it's --

TOOBIN: It's very different but a lot of states don't, you know --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.

TOOBIN: -- don't allow convicted felons.

BERMAN: Right.

TOOBIN: The most -- so I mean that's -- that would --

CAMEROTA: Even that was controversial. I mean the people having that debate --

HENDERSON: Yes.

CAMEROTA: -- and then Bernie Sanders --

TOOBIN: Yes.

CAMEROTA: --took it to a different level.

TOOBIN: So -- I'm sorry, go ahead.

CAMEROTA: Well, I wanted to move on to another topic --

BERMAN: Yes.

CAMEROTA: -- and that's free college. Does that sound good to you?

TOOBIN: Well, I mean, I think the issue of student debt is an enormous one. I mean, you know, I think when Elizabeth Warren says, she got a good education for $50 a semester, and you compare that to what young people are dealing with now, it's a major, major issue. And, you know, the precise contours of how you reduce the prices for college, whether it is through loans, grants, whatever, is something that is very important to talk about.

CAMEROTA: That's why it was a trick question to you.

TOOBIN: OK.

CAMEROTA: While you hit it out of the park.

TOOBIN: Oh, did I?

CAMEROTA: Yes. Here is what the candidates said about it last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) KLOBUCHAR: I wish I could staple a free college diploma under every one of your chairs. I do. Don't look, it's not there.

WARREN: To make college universally available, with free tuition and fees.

SANDERS: I have fought hard, with some success, to move toward making public colleges and universities tuition free.

HARRIS: I do support debt-free college.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: So I mean, the reason it is a trick question, it sounds great. The devil's in the details. But Elizabeth Warren had a ready answer. I mean she has done the math. She has the details that she says at least the math will work for.

HENDERSON: Yes, it's basically taxing 75,000 or so of the richest Americans on, I guess, $50 million of income, two cents on the dollar. Yes, and she explained it pretty well. I mean, this -- she rolled it out purposefully for the students to talk about.

And the activity on Twitter, I mean, if you saw, you know, people talking about this on Twitter. I mean, Twitter is, you know, a very narrow in some ways, barometer, but a lot of excitement for Elizabeth Warren. People saying, oh, you know, this is something that's bold. She's only --it's like leading the ideas primary. She's not leading in polls, she's not leading in a fundraising, but she's certainly, I think, breaking through with the bold ideas.

LOCKHART: Listen, I think it is great that CNN is doing these. It's -- and there are so many candidates. These are really necessary. And I think we learn something every time. We learned that Elizabeth Warren went in with a plan, she executed it. She came across as passionate about it. And on the other hand, you know, Kamala Harris, who has had good performances before, got stuck many times during the debate.

And I think if you look at it, you know, if you look at this in subgroups, with Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders competing for the same voters, Bernie sounded like Bernie Sanders in 2016. Elizabeth Warren sounded new, fresh. So there were some winners and losers last night. But the real winners were the voters because they get to see this early on and they get to meet these candidates.

BERMAN: Senator Harris did come out with a plan on guns.

LOCKHART: Yes, she was great on guns, absolutely, yes.

BERMAN: You know, so Nia talk about that. I mean she came -- let's listen to Senator Harris right now. She says she wants to take executive action if Congress doesn't move, which likely it won't, to restrict some kind of gun sales. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) HARRIS: Upon being elected, I will give the United States Congress 100 days to get their act together and have the courage to pass reasonable gun safety laws. And if they fail to do it, then I will take executive action and specifically what I will do is put in place a requirement, that for anyone who sells more than five guns a year they are required to do background checks --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[07:15:14] BERMAN: So she came with that last night.

HENDERSON: She came with it. And I think she came with a great deal of energy and passion, as well. I think she connected with the audience in a way that I hadn't seen her do necessarily before. One of the knocks on her is maybe she's not the greatest retail politician. I thought she was last night.

She was, you know, when people asked questions, she called their names, something Pete Buttigieg didn't do. It's sort of politics 101.

So I thought in the respect, she did herself some favor, and then with this issue of guns. It's a very animating issue for the base certainly. And so, there, she used this platform well, announcing a real idea about how to address this, if she were to become president.

CAMEROTA: We only have few seconds left, but Pete Buttigieg was sort of making the point that it's OK at this point in the race to have style over substance points. That he doesn't have to spell out, you know, his ten-point plan for anything at this point.

TOOBIN: Well, I think he's probably right. He has, you know, emerged out of complete nowhere, out of the fourth biggest city in Indiana, to become an obviously serious, serious candidate for president of the United States.

But, you know, as he rises in the polls, he'll get more scrutiny. That's appropriate, too. I think he is right for the time being.

BERMAN: You could see, Joe, just wrapping up there, you would see some of the other candidates now having to deal with the Buttigieg phenomenon, trying to position themselves verses and has this new poll, UNH has a one, in third.

CAMEROTA: Yes, it was third. Yes.

BERMAN: also tied with Joe Biden up in New Hampshire. So they have to deal with it.

LOCKHART: Right. Will you find, almost any presidential campaign you can have the ads, you can have the polls, you can have the handlers. Campaigns turn on how the candidates do when the script is thrown out and they're in front of a live audience.

And we -- every time we do this, we learn something and we learn something that, you know, Pete Buttigieg maybe is a little light on proposals, and he is going to -- in a night where, I think, Elizabeth Warren did really well on specifics, that was a comparison that didn't benefit him. But these are the moments.

And, you know, I think I would suspect that Kamala Harris, who is still in a great position, is going to go back with her team and say, I've got to stop saying we're going to have a conversation and have, you know, a better way to deal with it. And, you know, by the time we get to the summer debates, I think you're going to see, you know, some very -- candidates who rise and candidates who in those unscripted moments just can't handle it.

TOOBIN: Candidates get better, a lot of them by doing. I mean, Barack Obama in the beginning of 2008 was not the Barack Obama at the end of 2008. As he will be the first person to tell you.

CAMEROTA: Friends, thank you very much for all of that.

BERMAN: All right. There are 19, we counted, 19 Democrats running for president, but only one sits on the House Judiciary Committee, which could play a key role in potential impeachment proceedings. And he happens to be with us right now, Congressman Eric Swalwell joins us next

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:21:56] BERMAN: 2020 race, there could be more soon. One of those running is Congressman Eric Swalwell from California. He happens to be sitting with us at this very moment. Even more importantly, he is a member of the House's Judiciary Committee will be central in any potential impeachment proceedings against President Trump. Congressman Swalwell joins us again right.

Thanks for being here.

REP. ERIC SWALWELL (D-CA) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Of course.

BERMAN: Great to see you. As I said, congratulations on the entry into the race. Do you the president should be impeached?

SWALWELL: We're on that road right now. And we're certainly got closer after the Mueller report. So I'm one of the persons that will have to prosecute that case. And when I was a prosecutor for seven years, I always had my pencils sharpened, my subpoenas ready, my witness exhibits, you know, ready to be displayed right before I went it because I knew I get one shot. And here, we only get one shot. So --

BERMAN: What does it mean to be on the road? That means yes, you're telling Chairman Nadler, we should open formal impeachment proceedings?

SWALWELL: I think there's way points here. The first one is get the full Mueller report. About an eighth of it is redacted. We should see all of it. Second is have Bob Mueller testify.

I think seeing is believing, and having bob Mueller lay out what the president and his team did with the Russians, and then how he obstructed. You know, he is double digit obstructor by Bob Mueller's account. That will bring more public awareness, I believe. And then, of course, there's Don McGahn and other witnesses who will need to come in and supplement.

Look, this President needs to be held accountable. If we do nothing, we do two things. We enable the president. As the father of a 2- year-old, like doing nothing is not an option for someone who continues to act out. But also, you set a standard for future presidents that the bar is lower. And we don't want either of those.

CAMEROTA: But do you think that Speaker Pelosi agrees with you? Because last night, she had this mega conference call as you know, 172 Democratic members on this phone call, and did it sound to you like she was saying, let's pump the brakes and not move towards impeachment.

SWALWELL: I think what she's saying is like, let's get this right. She's not taking it off the table. But again, if you were to contrast what we're doing with Donald Trump justice where you just reach a conclusion without any evidence, then yes, I could see how you'd say, well, why aren't they moving that fast?

We don't move like that because we still believe in a rule of law and an order of things. And so, we're going to get this right. I'm confident that he's going to be removed, whether it's by the voters, November 2020, or by Congress, but we're near the end of Donald Trump.

BERMAN: You do agree though, she did specifically say, there are ways we can go that are not impeachment.

SWALWELL: Ways that we can go, I think, in addition to impeachment. I don't think she's taken that off the table, and nor should we.

CAMEROTA: Let's talk about some of the things. We had this candidate town --

SWALWELL: Yes.

CAMEROTA: -- as you all know last night. Some of the things that came up interesting issues that we hadn't been talking about until last night, for instance, Bernie Sanders had a very strong position, one you don't hear often, about felons' right to vote while in prison, regardless of what they're in for. So listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANDERS: If somebody commits a serious crime, sexual assault, murder, they're going to be punished. They may be in jail for 10 years, 20 years, 50 years, their whole lives. That's what happens when you commit a serious crime.

[07:25:00] But I think the right to vote is inherent to our democracy. Yes, even for terrible people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Do you agree? SWALWELL: Hard to disagree. You know, I prosecuted two people, send them away from murder for killing teenage African American boys, running outside the boy's school. That person should never have the right to vote.

Now, I do think for non-violent, non-sexual, not serious people, we should reform we should reform our criminal justice system so they're not getting felony convictions the first place and send them to job training or addiction training.

And for those who are serving now, non-violent, non-sexual, non- serious we should get them out of prison, get them back on the population, restore their voting rights. But some people are just irredeemable, should not be able to vote and I strongly disagree.

BERMAN: So violence in prison no voting but once released from prison, like the voters --

SWALWELL: Yes.

BERMAN: -- in Florida, yes.

SWALWELL: Or not even, you know, send, you know, people who are addicted to drugs, prisoner or, you know, properly crimes where they could be diverted in new job training. Let's not send them to prison, not give them a felony record. Let's try and believe that they have the opportunity to contribute. But some people, like the Boston Marathon bombers, those individuals should never vote in America again.

BERMAN: What about free college tuition. Elizabeth Warren, Senator Elizabeth Warren came out with the detailed proposal which included how to pay for it. I assume you support some type of free college tuition.

SWALWELL: I support a college bargain. I was the first of my family to go to college. I'm paying off just under $100,000 in student loans today.

BERMAN: Good (ph).

SWALWELL: Yes, oh yes. And my wife still said yes. She knew I was, you know, I had that debt when we got married. But that's like a first date conversation for young couples today because of, you know, what that means for the household, starting a family, buying a home.

My plan is this. If you work through college, and you come out, take your first job, but also do volunteerism, service hours to communities that need it, debt-free education. And on student-free debt, for the 40 million of us who have it, I would bring the interest rate to zero and allow employers to contribute tax free to their employees' due long debt.

CAMEROTA: Let's talk about guns. You've been outspoken on trying to stop gun violence. And so much so, did it has -- you received threats -- SWALWELL: Yes.

CAMEROTA: -- from someone who is arrested. Am I right about that?

SWALWELL: Last week, yes.

CAMEROTA: Last week. So what's your position?

SWALWELL: My position is that every kid has a right to learn without fear. Every person has a right to dance at a concert, laugh at a theater. And that those rights are greater than any other right. So let's have background checks on every firearm purchase. Let's ban and buy back the 15 million assault weapons, as they did in Australia as they're moving to do in New Zealand. Let's invest in gang violence prevention programs.

And I also no longer accept that this is a divisive issue. I think I've figured out the mirage here, which is that a vocal, tweeting, bullying minority wants us to believe it is divisive so that we do nothing, nothing after Sandy Hook, nothing after San Bernardino, nothing after Charleston, nothing after Las Vegas and we negotiate down.

But I've seen the moms and the children and actually gun owners who don't want us to do nothing because they know the pendulum could swing hard, and they could lose everything. They want us to do something. And there's reasonable ideas out there. We already know what they are. And I will lead on that in the first 100 days.

BERMAN: Again, we had this town hall last night, five candidates. You will get your moment. No doubt --

SWALWELL: Looking forward to it.

BERMAN: -- that's in the near future. But what are the candidates not saying, the other 18 announced, that you feel you are?

SWALWELL: Yes.

BERMAN: What's your unique message?

BERMAN: I'm going to be the curest (ph) candidate, which I think goes broadly to boldness on solutions. I believe in addition to a coverage debate, we need to do what we do best in America, find the unfindable, solve the unsolvable, and cure the incurable, and invest public dollars in genomics, data sharing, and targeted therapies.

I think that's a way to also bring down healthcare cost, extend the quality of life, and just challenge a generation of new scientists to be on this job so that we can look an ALS or Parkinson's patient in the eye and tell them that, "We're going big on this." And we're just so incremental these days on everything. And I think the next generation wants to solve problems.

CAMEROTA: When you see President Trump's poll numbers not move, not budge, after the Mueller report, and after a bunch of different things, sometimes, they have a dip, then they come right back to where they were. Do you think that Americans want to hear details like you're spelling out, or do you think they respond to sort of a big, brass, bold leadership style, and that he might win again?

SWALWELL: They want things to get done. And they were promised that their wages would go up, their healthcare costs would go down, that Washington would be, you know, drained of the swamp that was there. I think after four years, this is going to wear on them.

And the best case to be made is probably the simplest one, which is, are you better off? You know, are your paychecks going up? Are your healthcare costs going down? Or is this a top-floor economy, where the success of the economy is staying on the top floor, where only half of Americans are invested in the stock market, so it doesn't matter to the other half whether it is doing well or not.

BERMAN: That poll is pretty low. So there are people who may not have had jobs before who have jobs --

SWALWELL: Yes. And I'm not going to root against the unemployment rate. But I also recognize that wages are flat because a lot of people are taking on extra hours to work, especially, you know, people who are working in production and manufacturing. They're taking overtime hours just to keep up with the cost of goods.

CAMEROTA: OK. Now to one of our favorite questions.