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QUEST MEANS BUSINESS

Trump Speaks After Meeting Las Vegas Survivors and First Responders; Catalan President Says We Must Apply Independence Vote; U.S. Democrats Call for Gun Control Action; Three Billion Yahoo Accounts Compromised. Aired 4- 5p ET

Aired October 4, 2017 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[16:00:00] DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Parents and spouses used their own bodies as shields to protect their loved ones.

Americans dashed into a hail of bullets to rescue total strangers.

Joining us today are many of the heroes who were here during that horrible moment, that horrible night, including Las Vegas Metropolitan Police

officers Tyler Peterson and Tana Gurule, and civilian Aaron Stalker.

Officer Peterson was on his second day on the job when the shooting began. I just visited with him in the hospital. Within minutes, he joined a group

of officers rushing between flying bullets to clear the fairground and save lives.

Officer Gurule was off-duty attending the concert. Although she was unarmed, as soon as the shooting began, she threw on a yellow police vest

and began evacuating victims.

And Aaron Stalker, a veteran, rushed to the scene to search for his loved ones, but when he couldn't find them, he began helping every person he

could. As he recounts: "We used the plastic barriers as gurneys to carry the injured to transportation. I made splints out of whatever I could find

and used anything to stop the horrible bleeding."

Among the wounded was the mother of Aaron's girlfriend. She is still in the hospital, and we are all pulling for her.

To every hero we [who] helped -- every hero saved so many lives. And believe me, a grateful nation thanks you. The example of those whose final

act was to sacrifice themselves for those they loved should inspire all of us to show more love every day for the people who grace our lives.

In the months ahead, we will all have to wrestle with the horror of what has unfolded this week, but we will struggle through it together. We will

endure the pain together. And we will overcome together as Americans.

May God bless and watch over those who protect us. May God bring healing to the families of the wounded, the injured, and the fallen. And may God

bless our great country, America. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you, Governor. Thank you very much.

RICHARD QUEST, CNN HOST: Nation in morning is how President Trump describes it. Where the worst of humanity strikes the best of humanity

response. As he meets the first responders, the sheriff, the policeman, the fireman, those who rushed towards the hail of bullets coming from the

Mandalay Hotel on Sunday. And there's the Mayor of Las Vegas and the President greeting her. He describes it as a horrible moment in a horrible

night. However, he says, but with the horror we will overcome together as Americans. This is the third time today that we've seen the President. We

saw him earlier with some of the victims. We saw him at the police station with the first responders. And here you see him again meeting more of the

first responders. His wife Melania Trump is with him at the same time.

So, a busy day for President Trump having been in Puerto Rico yesterday with the hurricane victims and now today with those suffering from the

shooting. We'll talk more about that in the hours ahead.

Our top story tonight, Spain, facing its greatest crisis since the Franco era. The president of its Catalonia region is now vowing to implement the

results of Sunday's contested referendum. In the last hour he told Catalans dispute with Madrid must be resolved by politics not by the

police. A reference of course, to the violence that took place when the referendum was held. Catalan authorities are now saying the referendum

showed overwhelming support for independence. Despite efforts by the national police force to prevent the vote from taking place. The Catalan

President said the Spanish government's policies have been catastrophic for Catalonia and he went further. He criticized King Felipe for failing to

offer mediation in the dispute. The King having spoken and said, that the referendum was unconstitutional.

In the last hour the Catalan President disputed Spain's assertion, the King's assertion, that the vote was illegal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[16:05:00] CARLES PUIGDEMONT, PRESIDENT OF CATALONIA (through translator): What we're doing and what we will do is what many other societies have done

and will do in the future. We follow a democratic way which has been pushed by citizens. And this should be understood and it should be

respected.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: Now the difficulty of the position, certainly since the referendum has taken place, the very tricky situation for both Spain, the national

government and the Catalans face can be seen in what we saw on the markets. It's reflecting a very uncertain outlook. We've got the Spanish stock

market which fell 2.85 percent. If you look here you can see the market movements of the day. That's an extraordinary large movement. Because you

also see the way the banks, which hold much of the debt. Banco Sabadell, Banco Santander, the largest, Calxabank and BBVA all falling some three,

four, or 5 percent. And in terms of the national picture for Spain, that's also pretty grim. Government bonds were sharply up. They were up 1.784,

which is again, quite a considerable amount when you think the bond yields have been steady or falling.

The President of Catalonia is expected to declare independence in the matter of days, if not before. Erin McLaughlin joins me now from

Barcelona. So, before we go too much further on this, and bearing in mind what the President of Catalonia said. The actual results of the

referendum, remind us what it was.

ERIN MCLAUGHLIN CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Richard, first let's just discuss what has happened in the last hour or so. The Catalan President, Carles

Puigdemont, in an address to the entire country had some really, really strong words for King Felipe VI of Spain, saying that the Spanish monarch

deliberately, quote, ignored millions of Catalans who think in a different way to the central government. Saying directly to the King, quote, you

disappoint many people in Catalonia who appreciate you and are expecting a call to dialogue. Of course, this was after the King of Spain gave his own

very unusual address to the entire country last night. In which he attacked the Catalan government saying that what they were doing was

disloyal. Saying that it was an illegitimate referendum. Saying that they were trying to breach the unity of this country.

So, right now you have this really incredible situation, a face-off between the president of Catalonia and the Spanish monarch on top of this already

bubbling political crisis.

QUEST: All right, so, now you have the King saying what he did in the response. When are you expecting the Catalonians to declare some form of

independence. And if they do that, as expected, what is the likely response other than to say we don't recognize it we'll be the Spanish

government.

MCLAUGHLIN: In his address tonight President Puigdemont did not talk about a potential timetable as to when he could declare independence. That is

something that he has discuss earlier yesterday in a bunch of different media interviews saying that he can do it in a matter of days. What we're

hearing from the spokesperson for the local Parliament in Catalonia that they're going to have a session on Monday. We can expect a declaration of

independence sometime after that. Now at that point if and when that happens all eyes will be on Madrid in terms of their response. Some

speculating that they could invoke emergency powers over this region deepening the crisis. And then it's anyone's guess as to what could come

or happen after that. At the moment the Catalan government is calling for dialogue with the help of a third-party mediator. The Spanish government

though for its part says they don't want to mediator. They haven't ruled out dialogue. But that dialogue not happening so far -- Richard.

QUEST: Erin McLaughlin in Barcelona, thank you.

Peter Ceretti is a Spain analyst at the Economist Intelligence Unit, joins me now. Ok, we have a very, very difficult political situation. There's

no doubt about that.

[16:10:00] PETER CERETTI, SPAIN ANALYST, ECONOMIST INTELLIGENCE UNIT: Yes, absolutely.

QUEST: We're going to start to see -- and we saw it to a certain extent in the market -- spilling over into the market. Where do you expect to see

further in certainty, further turmoil?

CERETTI: Further uncertainty and further turmoil, well, obviously, large companies with bases in Catalonia, the Catalan banks for instance, will be

under pressure. And will see pressure in the sovereign bond markets for Spain.

QUEST: Explain to viewers why the sovereign bond market -- I pointed out there that yield is at 1.74. Why should yields rise? Other than just the

natural uncertainty of an event like this. What's the economic logic?

CERETTI: The economic logic is that Catalonia accounts for about 20 percent of the Spanish economy. Right. It's about 20 percent of tax

revenues. If it were to leave Spain, right, it would blow a hole in the Spanish budget. And you know, Spain as an economic entity would have much

less activity going on. It would generate much less revenue. So that would be a big fiscal problem for the Spanish government.

QUEST: Bearing in mind again, what we've heard today, from the King yesterday and from the president of Catalonia today, and from Mariano

Rajoy, there's no easy way out. So, would you expect this turmoil in the market to continue?

CERETTI: Over the coming days, yes. I think so long as there's uncertainty the market will be on edge. I think in the sovereign bond

markets yields will probably be contained because the European Central Bank is still buying government bonds in Europe. It's quantitative vision

program --

QUEST: Is and likely that the ECB would shift? It's supposed to by its bonds in proportion to the ownership of the Council of the ECB. But is it

likely to sort of shift towards Spain a bit to hold down the Spanish yields.

CERETTI: It may do that. I mean, there's always a little flexibility built-in where the capital key is concern. That's a possibility. But

there will be a rise in yields. I think that will be contained. I think the bigger thing to watch here is, as you said, this is being driven by

politics and not by the economics right now. That's where the uncertainty rises.

QUEST: Does the markets -- on the economic front is there any good outcome here that you can see?

CERETTI: Is there any good outcome? I think the best outcome would be some kind of a negotiated solution where the government does sit down with

regional government of Catalonia. And then talks this out and find some sort of a package that could appease the Catalan nationalists.

QUEST: But you're not --?

CERETTI: I'm not particularly -- No, I think that's looking less and less likely, frankly. I think was more likely to happen is that independence is

declared and Madrid react pretty harshly to keep Catalonia within the country.

QUEST: Right, now, on a wider point, are we likely to see ripples of this across the eurozone or can the ECB contain it to Spain. It's a large

country. It's not one of the -- within the eurozone it is one of the largest after France, Germany and Italy. So, any form of dislocation will

rumble on through the rest of the zone.

CERETTI: I don't expect a whole lot of contagion effects. If that's what you mean. You know, coming from this Catalan crisis main reason being that

it is specifically a Spanish problem. Right. If Catalonia were to leave, there are a number of other European countries that do have separatist

movements that could be a problem. Then you might see more concern about separatist regions and other countries. But so far, the EU has confirmed,

it said that we respect Spain's constitutional order. There again, I do expect Spain ultimately to keep Catalonia in the country one way or

another. So, in terms of contagion of other countries, no, I don't see it right now. But it is a possibility.

QUEST: Peter Ceretti, thank you.

CERETTI: Yes, thank you.

QUEST: Puerto Rican bonds have fallen to an all-time low. If that were possible after President Trump suggested a bailout could be in the works

for the territory. The President's budget team is trying to walk back his comments, which came out of nowhere after his trip to Puerto Rico.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Well, we're going to work something out. We have to look at the whole debt structure. You know, they owe a lot of money to your friends on

Wall Street and were going to have to wipe that out. That's going to have to be a -- you know you can say goodbye to that. I don't know if it's

Goldman Sachs, but whoever it is you can wave goodbye to that. We have to do something about -- because the debt was massive on the island.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NEWTON: Now wiping out Puerto Rico's debts would be a huge shift in Washington's stance. This morning on CNN the White House budget director,

Mick Mulvaney, said things were not that simple.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICK MULVANEY, DIRECTOR, WHITE HOUSE OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET: I wouldn't take it word for word with that. I talked to the president about

this at some length yesterday as we flew home on the -- on Air Force One. And what we're focusing on right now is what you and I just talked about,

which is the primary focus of the federal effort is to make sure the island is safe and that we're rebuilding the island.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: If Puerto Rico's debt was forgiven it wouldn't be Goldman Sachs and the big hedge funds that took most of the losses. Have a look. Less than

1/4 of Puerto Rico debt is actually held by big hedge fund, less than 1/4. The rest it's small investors. It's mutual funds. And while many of those

are run by big banks, the ordinary retail investor would take the biggest haircut. Which is one reason why so far, they've been very reluctant to

actually deal with the Puerto Rican bet on prices. It would hit a lot of small investors.

[16:15:11] Shaun Burgess is the portfolio manager at Cumberland Advisors which owns some of Puerto Rican debt. Sean, when you heard the President's

comments this morning, did you fear -- or at least did you worry, that he was actually not going to require you to take a haircut, or your investors

to take a haircut. But actually, might wipe it out.

SHAUN BURGESS, PORTFOLIO MANAGER, CUMBERLAND ADVISORS: No, not so much. It was definitely a head scratcher of a statement. And one that was very,

very unclear. But there is a process in place that's going to deal with the Commonwealth restructuring. So, this term wiping out was one I think

that was very poorly phrased and you know, there is a process in place for behind the restructuring of the Commonwealth that may --

QUEST: There's no question though that the bondholders of Commonwealth debt are going to have to be bailed in in some shape or form. They're

going to have to take haircuts. They're going to take losses. I mean, that means the nature of being a bondholder in many cases.

BURGESS: Yes, and we know the Commonwealth can't pay their debt now. So, for uninsured bondholders, they will most definitely have to take some

haircut. The amount of which remains to be seen. So, is still an ongoing process that we expect now to be lengthened because of Maria.

QUEST: Right. The old phrase you're familiar with, you can't get a quart out of a pint pot. Well, that's even worse in this situation. Because

there isn't even a pint pot bear to get anything out of at all. So, surely the argument for investors is any money has to go to reconstruction. You

don't believe that you could be looking for a total wipeout here.

BURGESS: No, no. We don't believe that the Commonwealth can't pay all of their debts in total. They definitely can't pay some of their debt.

There's going to be some haircut. But to think of a total wipeout being that they can't pay any of their debt, of all the scenarios that is the

least likely. There's definitely going to be dollars put to restructuring. And it's going to be a lot of federal dollars too.

QUEST: OK, but let's talk about one sort of slightly -- I can hear the argument and I can see some people sort of describing this as socialism,

bordering on communism. But there will be some people who say any dollars -- no dollars I should put it -- should go to Wall Street banks, to go to

investors, who knew the risks they were taking when they invested in the bonds. Every single penny that could go to servicing debt should go to

reconstruction and relief.

BURGESS: You no, for Puerto Rico it's a very different situation, because as you said, so much of their debt is owned by mutual funds which retail

investors own, mom and pops, Puerto Rican citizens own, Puerto Rican banks. So, is not just like Wall Street owns the bonds and we can just walk away

walk away from the debt. This affects many more people than that. And Puerto Ricans themselves. So, it's a very delicate situation I would say.

And not so easily, you know, summed up in one quote from the president.

QUEST: Sir, I'm grateful. I know these are tricky issues to talk about in 3 1/2 minutes in soundbites. But I'm pleased that you came into do it for

us, thank you very much.

BURGESS: Thank you very much for having me.

QUEST: As we continue tonight, new highs on Wall Street. U.S. stocks extend their record run on Wednesday. The Dow, the S&P and the Nasdaq all

finishing at fresh all-time highs. In fact, the S&P is enjoying its longest winning streak since May. But if you look, by the way at the Dow,

it really was a close one I think throughout the course of the day.

America's top diplomat says he doesn't go in for petty nonsense. Although a report of name-calling, Rex Tillerson says the president could count on

him. And the President says Rex Tillerson has total confidence. Will be at the State Department after the break.

[16:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: the U.S. Secretary of State hasn't directly denied calling President Donald Trump a moron. Rex Tillerson spoke to reporters earlier

following an NBC television report saying he had bad mouth the president. He answered it by going out of his way to praise Mr. Trump and then denied

reports that he wanted to resign in the summer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REX TILLERSON, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: There's never been a consideration in my mind to leave. I serve at the appointment of the president and I'm

here as long as the president feels I can be useful to achieving his objectives.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: Less than a year ago Mr. Tillerson was in the corner office. He was running Exxon Mobil one of the world's largest oil companies. Now he's

the one learning what happens when you get accused of insulting the boss. CNN's military and diplomatic analyst, John Kirby, joins me from

Washington. John, this is extraordinary, isn't it? I mean, he doesn't deny calling the president a moron in a conversation with military leaders

and people earlier this year. What do you make of that?

JOHN KIRBY, CNN MILITARY AND DIPLOMATIC ANALYST: Yes, he didn't do that. But his spokesman a couple of hours later did denied that he ever use that

word. She said she spoke directly to the secretary and he openly denied using it. But look, we have to get beyond this. On the tactical level

this was a PR problem they had to heal with. It is significant to me, Richard, that you have a man so reticent to talk to the press on any normal

day. When the normal course of foreign policy drives his life. For him to go out there today to do this, that significant alone. And then you also

have I think a larger story here of tensions inside this White House and inside this cabinet.

QUEST: And you have that extraordinary tweet. Rex, don't bother go talking to rocket man. I'll sorted out. I mean, what you think -- I'm

asking you the impossible here and I'm well aware of it. What do you think the presidency doing with Rex Tillerson? Is he toying with him? He's got

this top CEO on the end of a string.

KIRBY: People that I have talked to inside the administration -- I don't know if it's 100 percent accurate -- but what they tell me is that the

President actually felt with that tweet that he was helping Tillerson. Now it's a little counterintuitive, so work with me here. But he believes that

by saying that, that he was putting a little pressure inside the negotiation room to try to get the North Koreans a little bit more willing

to talk. By him being the tough guy and allowing Tillerson to sort of be the good guy, if you will. That's what the administration officials are

telling me. That he believes he was actually helping.

There is no question though on the face of it that in actuality he was undermining his Secretary of State. And making it harder for the North

Koreans to take Tillerson seriously when Tillerson talks about the need for diplomacy.

QUEST: No matter how competent, how good Rex Tillerson is, do you think is -- a mistake might be putting it too high. But do you think it is unwise

to appoint somebody to such a high office, a high-profile office, who clearly loathes talking to the press. When he was at Exxon Mobile he

virtually never did any interviews. And yet, he is the front man for U.S. diplomacy.

KIRBY: I've written about this. I do agree, Richard. I think, look, he's a very, obviously, very educated, intelligent successful man. And I'm not

bemoaning any of his success at Exxon Mobil or his qualifications to be in the cabinet of this administration. But the Secretary of State is not just

the implementer of the president's foreign policy. He is the face and voice of the United States of America around the world. There is a public

dimension that goes with that job. And I feel that he has failed in his responsibilities to communicate American foreign policy.

QUEST: Final question that's absolutely impossible for you to answer, but I shall throw at you anyway. How close you think he is to going? I mean,

either being pushed or basically saying two fingers up, I don't need this.

KIRBY: Yes, people I'm talking to over there at Foggy Bottom, Richard, tell me that he is in no danger of leaving anytime soon and has no desire

to leave. So, his public comments today are tracking with what I'm hearing is being said behind the scenes.

[16:25:00] QUEST: That was far too easy for you to answer. John, I shall have to sharpen my pencil for the next time.

KIRBY: I look forward to it.

QUEST: Thank you John, good to see you.

Facebook sources tell CNN they will testify before Congress as part of the investigation into Russian election meddling. Senator say Facebook and

Twitter and Google have all been invited to a public hearing next month. Manu Raju is on Capitol Hill. We saw what happened with Twitter. And we

saw that the short tripped that Twitter got. They got rather sort of poultry information. In will be others get similar responses?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it remains to be seen. We know that Facebook, for instance, has turned over roughly 3000

ads to Senate Intelligence Committee and the House Intelligence Committee to show Russia linked efforts to push forward these ads during the election

season. But, those ads have not been publicly released yet. Today at a press conference of two leaders of the Senate intelligence committee said

that they will personally release this information because it has come into their investigation. But it's part of a policy not to do that. But they

said, it's up to Facebook to release this information. But Richard, Facebook, sources are telling us, they have no plans to release any of

these as that are now coming into sharp scrutiny on Capitol Hill.

And we have learned something very significant. That some of these ads targeted key swing states during the election season. Including Michigan

and Wisconsin, two states that the President won on the narrowest of margins helping to propel him to the presidency. The question for

investigators is whether or not anyone in the United States helped in any way with this ad strategy. That something they don't have the answer to

quite yet -- Richard.

QUEST: It's a simplistic question, Manu, but we don't have any idea how far or how deep this goes.

RAJU: Yes, that's absolutely right. And I think that was pretty revealing in this press conference that these two leaders of the Senate intelligence

committee had today. They have been at this issue for months, since the beginning of the year, since January. Interviewing more than 100

witnesses, going through thousands of pages of documents. But still they do not have an answer about whether or not there was anybody involved in

the Trump universe to coordinate with Russia in part of this effort to meddle in the elections. Those are questions that are still unanswered.

And it's very clear there is a lot more they need to investigate. Including the social media strategy of Facebook, Twitter, all the platforms

about whether or not there was any efforts by Russians and collusion with the Trump Associates. We don't have an answer that quite yet -- Richard.

QUEST: Thank you, thank you, sir.

RAJU: Thank you.

QUEST: Former Congressman Gabby Gifford survived being shot in 2011. She was of course gravely wounded. Today, she returned to Capitol Hill and the

call was for tighter gun control as the issue again take center stage in Washington.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:30:09] Hello, I'm Richard Quest. There's more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS in just a moment. When Democrats and Republicans go into battle over guns. A

huge industry and enormous clout in U.S. politics.

And cell service knocked out across most of Puerto Rico, satellite phones are a lifeline. The chief executive of Inmarsat joins me live.

You're watching CNN, and on this network the news always comes first.

Catalonian's President is vowing to implement the results of Sunday's banned independence referendum. 90 percent of voters favored a split with

Spain. Carles Puigdemont spoke a short time ago about Spain's crackdown. He said the Spanish King missed an opportunity to mediate the political

crisis.

In Las Vegas, President Trump's been meeting with first responders, police, doctors and victims. Three days after the deadliest shooting in modern

American history. Donald Trump praised their bravery and said America's a nation in morning. Earlier he briefly spoke about the gunmen calling him a

sick demented man insane his wires were screwed up.

Everything it seemed that could go wrong did for the British Prime Minister, Theresa May. While delivering a speech to a packed conference on

Wednesday, she was interrupted by a prankster. She then went on to experience a coughing fit. And if that wasn't bad enough. As you will

see, part of this stage behind her fell apart. Theresa May did take full responsibility for her parties losing seats during the election campaign.

European Union has ordered Amazon to pay nearly $300 million after finding it benefited from an illegal tax arrangement. The firms accused of not

paying tax on almost 3/4 of his European profits. Amazon denies it receives special treatment in Luxembourg. And while the EU was taking

Ireland to court after it refused to collect the other $15 billion in unpaid taxes from Apple. It had ruled the Irish government had granted a

legal aid to Apple.

QUEST: Police said they found say they found 23 guns in Stephen Paddock's hotel suite in Las Vegas and another 19 were at home. Today on the steps

of the Capitol building, Democratic lawmakers called for action on gun control.

Now, Congress is unlikely to act so let's go to join our guest to talk about this. Erich Pratt joins me to discuss this in some detail.

The lobby group the Gun Owners of America says it is disturbing to see anti-gun politicians and celebrities politicizing the tragedy, Eric Pratt,

isn't that inevitable. You say it's politicizing but now surely or at least in short order, it is the right moment to have a measured debate on

sensible gun reform in America? Surely now is the time.

ERICH PRATT, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, GUN OWNERS OF AMERICA: First, thank you so much for having me on. But a couple things to your question, I mean for

starters we do have a Constitution which says that the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. Secondly, none of the

proposals that they are raising would have actually stopped this guy from doing what he did. What that shows is they will use whatever strategy to

then trot out all the restrictions that they have wanted to impose for years.

They talk about universal background checks, well guess what, this shooter passed background checks to buy his firearms. How would having universal

background checks fared any better?

QUEST: I take your point. In this particular case, every single possible reform would have been there. But let's talk of the bigger issue. This

country has a rate of deaths by homicide not including suicide, you know these numbers better than I, 25 times greater than the nearest neighbor,

other country.

[16:35:00] It has 10 homicides per 100,000 of the population, the nearest one is somewhere down from a Western country, it's down in the 2s and 3s.

Are you comfortable with the statistics as they are?

PRATT: I am not comfortable with the way that you're distorting the statistics. If you look at the statistics, the United States is not even

in the top 100, when it comes to the highest murder rates. In all those countries that are in the top 100 have much stricter gun control. Mexico,

you mentioned the nearest country to us, Mexico has a much higher murder rate than we do. Much stricter gun control. How about Venezuela? They

not only --

QUEST: Sir, sir, sir, please --

PRATT: Would have the gun control that you would love. They have confiscated. Will you please let me finish? They have confiscated

firearms and yet their murder rate is 20 times higher than the United States.

QUEST: You're comparing Venezuela to the United States, why don't you compare the United States to the other G7 countries, or even --

PRATT: If you want to cherry pick your data in other words, even though we are not in the top 100, you want to trot out the select few. We have

states in this country by the way that have lower murder rates than England and all of the other countries in Europe. Like New Hampshire, in New

Hampshire, OK, you can carry a firearm concealed without getting permission. And their murder rate is below one per 100,000. It is lower,

I mean it would be the dream of Europe.

See, gun control in Europe has not stopped mass shootings from occurring, in fact what you see is that Europe, many of the countries have a much

higher mass shooting rate, OK, when you look at rate per capita, they have -- look, America is big --

QUEST: Which country, sir, which country in Europe has a higher mass murder rate?

PRATT: England, Norway, Serbia, Albania, OK, France, Finland, Norway.

QUEST: Your France analogy allows for the ISIS terrorist activity, it is not based on simple gun control.

PRATT: Look, France in one year, they lost more people to mass shootings than in all of the U.S. mass shootings during Obama's presidency. And they

have far stricter gun control. They have bands on machine guns, you can't carry firearms. And yet terrorists got guns, they got machine guns and

they shot up the place, and that is the problem. The terrorists and bad guys will always select places that are gun free zones. 98 percent of the

mass shootings in the United States occur in places that are gun free zones where law-abiding people are not allowed to carry firearms.

QUEST: So, what I can hear the viewer asking, not unreasonably, we have heard his arguments and you have heard my arguments or discussion points,

we have heard it backwards and forwards. So very simply, in a really simple way that the viewer watching around the world can understand, from a

person like yourself who is a gun proponent or at least a second amendment proponent, what is your answer to prevent the sort of atrocities, the sort

of mass shootings that this country has, that most of the developed world does not have? What is your solution?

PRATT: The problem is that you guys never report on the mass shootings that are prevented by law-abiding citizens carrying concealed weapons, like

the firefighter in South Carolina that stop the school mass shooting. Or like the guy in the bar in Arlington, Texas because he was carrying a

firearm concealed. You guys never want to report on that even as Obama's center for disease control in 2013, they found that guns are used 16 to 100

times more often in this country to save lives than to take life.

But you guys don't report on that, the only want to try to up the negative case, so what I would say to that question is why don't you start covering

the positive cases, so then people can really make a decision based on all the evidence, not only choosing the negative examples trotting that out and

saying, oh, what he wants to keep firearms?

QUEST: I am just going to rephrase the question in a different way, because I do not think you fully answered it. I take your point that you

think we do not report on certain aspects. But --

PRATT: Good people are stopping mass shootings. Look, you are not going to stop everything, just like a car crash can be so bad that a seatbelt

doesn't work. Nobody ever said there's --

QUEST: Are you comfortable then with there being more guns in this country and population?

PRATT: Do you know that in America, our gun stock has doubled in the last 20 years even while gun violence and murder has been cut in half in those

20 years. The rate has been cut in half.

[16:40:00] We actually have more guns in the United States and less crime. So, to answer your question, yes, I am comfortable with that, we are

actually safer today.

QUEST: If I take your point because I am trying to add light not just heat in this, you would accept that a certain level of atrocity is inevitable

even allowing for the number of non-gun, let me finish. Even allowing for those crimes that are solved or at least prevented by guns. You are

prepared to --

PRATT: You know why that is such an ignorant question, I am sorry, but that is so ridiculous, because that is like saying because that guy in

France used his truck to run over 86 people, now we should ban vehicles and cars. Because on 9/11 terrorists used box cutters. By the way, are you

willing to allow for such levels of violence shouldn't we restrict cars and trucks, when should we restrict box cutters? Shouldn't we restrict the

fertilizer that Timothy McVeigh used?

QUEST: Just a minute, just a minute, just a minute.

PRATT: If you are not willing to ban them, how heartless are you that you are willing to allow a certain level of atrocity? See how ridiculous that

argument is when I spin it back on you. Or how about your free speech, your free speech has resulted in millions of people being killed. How

about ideas like Mein Kampf and radical Islam that has read to the slaughter of thousands and millions of people. Do you see the problem? If

we are going to start restricting liberties were to stop?

QUEST: Sir, sir, sir, you're getting excited. And it is not helpful. May I suggest to you that on your point that you just made, firstly, one, with

box cutters, yes, they did find them on aircraft following 9/11. On the question of trucks in Paris and Berlin and in London, yes, law enforcement

is now having to look at what measures are necessary to prevent crimes that can be committed by using these vehicles. So, sir, you have argued against

yourself. Because law enforcement is building --

PRATT: No, I haven't. You have not answered me, are you willing to put up with restrictions on all those items including your free speech?

QUEST: Yes, I am willing to put up with restrictions on box cutters, I'm willing to put up with barriers to prevent trucks from going into central

cities if that helps prevent things, the problem is if we take your analogy --

PRATT: Out fertilizing your lawn, in your own job --

QUEST: Let me finish.

PRATT: Free speech --

QUEST: Let me finish. Sir. If you take your point and now moving back to gun control, I am willing to take certain restrictions for the betterment

or prevention of crime. You are not willing to take any restrictions when it comes to guns.

PRATT: Because we have a constitution it says, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. If you want to be completely

lawless and ignore that, go right ahead, I am not going to join you in that.

QUEST: If I was to say to you because we have gone on much longer than we intended to, but it has been an interesting and fruitful discussion, if I

was to ask you the Constitution has been changed 27 times, and you are familiar with the fact that the Second Amendment is an amendment of it.

What would you say if I went right for the jugular, right to the heart of it and say, maybe the second amendment itself should be a debate. Never

mind, restrictions on this and fiddling around, let us go straight forward, maybe the Second Amendment should be --

PRATT: People have tried to amend it, they have failed, at least you would be trying to do it honestly if you try to amend it, usually, they try to

bypass the amendment process and just pass laws in violation of the amendment. But if you would lease would try to amend it, I would say kudos

to you for at least going through the lawful, legal channels. We won't support you in that effort but good looking trying for that.

QUEST: Can I invite you to come on again and talk about this in the future, sir? Will you?

PRATT: Absolutely.

QUEST: Good to see you, sir. As we continue tonight on a QUEST MEANS BUSINESS will be back in Puerto Rico, we have got more market news, and we

will continue to discuss of course what is happening with guns.

[16:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: Now here is an eye-opener for you, the lashes may be false, the growth is 100 percent genuine. In our latest episode of "Traders" we go to

a city in Indonesia that is catering to worldwide demand, and what is it for? Fake eyelashes.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Make up tutorials online dedicated to false eyelashes receive millions of hits. This beauty trend is driven by a bloggers

influence and celebrity faces has changed the fortunes of one Asian city.

Purbalingga has become the eyelash capital of the world. 40 years ago, this company PT Royal Korindah established itself and the city as a center

for eyelash manufacture.

CEO Jun Ho Lee took over from his father to run the business.

JUN HO LEE, CEO, PT ROYAL KORINDAH: Working with eyelashes, it's such small light material, it's very tedious work, you need to patients because

it's almost like handicraft work rather than a production line.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When the company began, a 100,000 eyelashes were produced per month. The bulk export price $0.23.

LEE: Eyelashes traditionally started with only human hair. But certain styles can only be achieved with synthetic fibers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Today the price has doubled to meet demand, 5.5 million pairs are created every month.

LEE: Lot of the consumers, they were reluctant to try it. They were thinking, oh, it's got to be difficult. It has got to be uncomfortable but

with more and more celebrities putting on eyelashes and even talking about it or posting it in social media, I think that helped the consumers to be

brave enough to want to try it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The trade-onomics of beauty is flourishing. With sales approaching $.5 trillion both the business and its consumers are looking

good. The market trend for false eyelashes flutters upwards, expected to reach more than $1 billion by 2023.

Indonesia follows China as the second biggest exporter of hair products. And with an eye for style too, its own beauty market has doubled in size

over the last five years.

LEE: My idea was no matter how small the company or the industry is, I wanted to be the best. And I focused on innovation.

We were very well established when the eyelash trend or boom started early 2000. To me even my profit margin is not a number one priority. Number

one priority is to maintain my position as a world leader in eyelashes. And I am very proud of that and I plan to keep it that way.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[16:50:00] QUEST: As we continue, what is worse than admitting a data breach that affects a billion people? Well, make it 3 billion. And I

promise you this time it is bigger than it sounds.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: This is a dubious distinction, Yahoo has now topped the list of the largest ever data breach. It has emerged that a hack in 2013 was three

times larger than previously acknowledged, according to Yahoo's parent company Verizon. 3 billion accounts were compromised, e-mail, fantasy,

Flickr accounts. Apparently, credit card details were not. But everything else was including passwords.

Kevin Bocek is the chief cyber-security strategist at the cybersecurity firm Venafi, he joins me from Chicago.

When you heard that the number was 3 billion, and not 1 billion, what was your reaction?

KEVIN BOCEK, CHIEF CYBER-SECURITY STRATEGIST, VENAFI: You know what, I was not a bit surprised. We have been observing this data breach for the last

few months, and more than that, and what we knew it was only going to get bigger. It was clear that the bad guys, these hackers, had gotten in, had

rooted around yahoo and gotten out all with the power of encryption. Which meant that you know no one really knew how big the breach was.

QUEST: OK, do we know, whether or not the data has since been used nefariously? I mean is one thing to get 3 billion sets of information, but

if nobody uses it or nothing happens, well it's bad, but it's not as bad as it could be. What has been the affect?

BOCEK: There is a disturbing trend going on where we see the hackers whether they are nation-state or whether just criminals out to make a

profit. They are gathering data, we've seen this with Equifax, we have seen this with the U.S. government. They are gathering data, that makes

their attacks all that more effective. Knowing that someone's email password or Flickr account has been used in one specific breach, is

actually not very interesting.

Knowing that a combined amount of information is being used to make an attack very effective, that is what is really interesting. I just heard

today that NATO soldiers on the Estonian border are being targeted by Russian troops is just one example. Take all of this information and it

makes a hacker's job much, much more effective.

QUEST: But what are people doing with this information? What do we know of the 3 billion Yahoo accounts that were hacked, it was the Equifax

hundreds of millions that there were. We actually know that anybody has lost anything? That there has been identity theft, that credit cards have

been applied for.

BOCEK: What we know is the hacks continue to happen, we know certainly identity theft is happening all of the time now, whether it's one single

politician's email account that gets breached, you might remember the Bundestag, there was a huge data breach just a few years ago. So, the

sources of any one data breach and bringing them all together. Certainly, is a puzzle you have to go through any one investigation.

But what we do know is that nation-states or hackers are acquiring more data and they have AI engines and they are getting smarter about who they

want to attack, whether one person or a bunch.

[16:55:00] QUEST: And we had the head of Europol, the European police authority on this program, who basically said and not too many words, the

hackers are cleverer than we are at the moment. Would you agree?

BOCEK: They are, you know what, it was actually President Putin who just a few weeks ago said that he who controls AI, will control the world. So, he

who controls the machines, the power encryption, the ability to get in and get out rules the world.

QUEST: Good to see you, thank you. We appreciate it. We will have a Profitable Moment after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: Tonight's Profitable Moment, in my discussion with Erich Pratt earlier, I never for one second expected him to change his mind. I am

neither naive or arrogant enough to believe that he would suddenly say as a result of my point, oh yes, Mr. Quest, I had not thought of that. Clearly,

you have maybe think again about the whole question of gun control.

No, what I wanted you to see of course was the entrenched views that exist in this country. Where even after 59 people have been killed, it is simply

impossible to get any traction on the issue of gun control. Now, love it or hate it, a final point that we came to really is the important point.

It's in the Constitution that there is the right to bear arms, but there is nothing that says the Constitution can't be changed. And as he points out,

he would oppose it but at least that would be an honest argument.

And maybe that is the argument that the U.S. needs to have? Of course, it will be a Herculean task to change the Second Amendment to repeal it or to

amend it again. But let us never forget there have been 27 amendments to the Constitution, a sacred document seen by some, but a document written by

men that has been changed and reformed in times past. A difficult task but getting to the second amendment is perhaps a lot more honest than simply

tinkering around with possible gun control.

And that is Quest Means Business for tonight, I am Richard Quest in New York, whatever you are up to in the hours ahead, I hope it is profitable.

I will be with you tomorrow.

END