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PRIMETIME JUSTICE WITH ASHLEIGH BANFIELD
New Details on Vegas Killer`s Arsenal. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired October 3, 2017 - 20:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`ve avoided seeing the victims and pictures of people that were killed. And I was there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Regular everyday Joe Blow kind of guy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He continued to fire at a progressive successive rate for approximately nine minutes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police recovering an arsenal of 23 weapons from Paddock`s hotel room, including multiple rifles, some with scopes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Additional firearms, some explosives and several thousand rounds of ammo.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He didn`t set off any of my alarms.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He bought the machine guns and he did this. He`s never even drawn his gun.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because everybody was screaming (INAUDIBLE) and yelling. They didn`t know what to do, didn`t know where the shooter was.
We thought he was going to jump over the fence.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was a gambler and a speculator.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You wouldn`t recognize him as being anything out of the norm.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HOST: Good evening, everyone, from Las Vegas. I`m Ashleigh Banfield, live on the scene of now what is being said over and
over again the worst mass shooting in modern day U.S. history.
There are some new images that are very, very disturbing but they are critical to see, of the dead man, the man responsible for exacting so much
carnage on the strip below, the man who decided to get a room and bring guns upon guns into it, set up, break out windows and then fire on 22,000
people who were quietly and innocently enjoying a concert below, Stephen Paddock.
Who was he? Why did he do it? How did he get all those guns? How`d he get all that ammo? Why on earth would he do it? And how do we find the
next guy like him when so many of the signs weren`t there? This is not your average shooter that afterwards, we hear had difficult issues at home
or difficult financial issues or mental issues that had gone maybe undiagnosed.
By all accounts, we`re finding out he was just like you and me, neighbors saying a gentle giant, his brother saying didn`t think he even knew about
guns, everybody else saying he was just a big high roller who really liked to go on cruises and really liked to gamble.
That was the guy who had in his possession dozens of guns at several different locations, by all counts now, 49 -- 49 total guns they`ve been
able to find in this investigation, 23 of them in that room. The photos you`ve been seeing in that room are harrowing, not only are we seeing so
many of those actual weapons, assault-style weapons, but also remarkable amounts of spent ammunition and stockpiles of ammunition and then, of
course, the dead man`s carcass. These pictures coming to us courtesy of "The Daily Mail." And it`s not that it isn`t causing a problem. Sheriff
in town is very upset that many of these photographs from inside this hotel room have been leaked, and it made it into the press. But for everybody
watching, we all want to know. We all want to know who this guy was. We all want to know what kind of firepower did he have to exact that much
killing, to kill that many people and to injure so many more, 500-plus injured? Really? And the sheriff is worried that we`re seeing those
pictures. Eventually, we would, you would think, in an investigation like this.
So they`re saying it`s premeditated and pre-planned. So many of us could have told that from the get-go. Ten suitcases he had to bring into that
hotel room. How long did it take him? He`d been there since last Thursday. All those weapons they picked up out of that hotel room now on
their way to the FBI lab at Quantico, if they`re not already there, for analysis.
Turns out he accumulated those weapons, we`re now finding out, over the last 20 years. His brother said he only knew of a couple, that he only had
one or two or maybe three when he moved him from Florida. So much we don`t know about this man and so much we don`t know about how he was able to do
CNN correspondent Martin Savidge joining me live now. Martin, there`s a lot that we`ve been finding out from the sheriff when he gives those
sporadic press conferences, and I want to talk to you a little bit about what the -- what they`ve said. But first, before I do that, it turns out
you have an extraordinary knowledge of these weapons, what they are, what they aren`t, and what some of those photographs now show us about the
actual mechanics of what he did and what he used.
Can you walk me through what those photos that we`ve been seeing actually show us?
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Sure. You know, I mean, I won`t propose to be a gun expert, but I`ve spent a great deal of time around guns
in lot of different places.
You take a look at the arsenal, and that`s a very appropriate term that you used to describe what he had in that hotel room, and it`s staggering to
see. You know, first of all, you can take a look at one of the weapons. I can`t see the photographs, but there is one you will see that has a grip at
end of the barrel. It`s an AR rifle, Armolite (ph) rifle. That`s a design. And it appears to be maybe an AR-15.
[20:05:04]But it`s the back of the gun you want to look at. It`s the stock because it appears to have what`s called bump stock, and the sheriff has
admitted that at least one of the weapons had a bump stock. This is an altercation. (sic) It`s a -- it`s a little thing you can add to the weapon.
It`s easily done.
And what it allows is that once you fire the gun, which is semiautomatic, you must squeeze the trigger, the recoil of the weapon will continue to
fire the gun as long as you hold down that trigger. It takes from semiautomatic to an automatic. So one of those weapons had that kind of
modification to it.
In some of the other photos, you begin to see the ammunition. These are the expanded curved kind of clips. Clips usually might have around 30
rounds. These may have 50 or 60. It`s hard to tell in the photograph. So extended rounds.
And in some of these photographs, you see that he methodically stacked them up almost like cord wood. They were there. They were ready. And then
also looking at these weapons, it looks like there are some variations from AR-15 to an AR-10. An AR-10, the difference there is a -- it`s a more
powerful weapon and it fires a .308, so that`s a much more powerful round, the ability to not pierce just one person, but several, which may account
for why you have so many, many people that are injured here.
And then on top of that, that kind of firing rate over nine minutes, I mean, the math is mind-boggling. But it was clearly mass murder, and he
had methodically thought it out.
BANFIELD: So Martin, one more detail that came from the sheriff`s press conference that was sort of jaw-dropping, and that was that they discovered
cameras. This madman had set up cameras not just inside his room, where he decided to exact this mass murder, but also in the hallway -- in the
hallway, presumably to see the authorities coming.
SAVIDGE: Yes. And here again, you know, you see how carefully planned this was. You know, this was not a moment of passion in which he just
decided to take people out. These are cameras that -- we`re told there were multiple cameras. So there was at least one camera inside of the room
as he was shooting, and then there is another camera that, as you point out, was in the hallway. It appears that he had kind of hidden that camera
in a room service food tray and -- the cart, actually. And this allowed him to keep an eye on the hallway because he knew once he began firing,
that of course, there would be a response. So he was ready for that response, too, and wanted to be able to fight off and did fight off the
first, initial attempts to break in and try and stop him.
So he`s got a camera outside and he`s got cameras on the inside. It is not believed he was transmitting the imagery as he was shooting. In other
words, he wasn`t filming this to send to somebody else. But the fact that he had cameras to monitor his back, as it were, is just staggering.
BANFIELD: Well, it didn`t work. Ultimately, they came for him and he shot himself. And the video and the images that are being released are sort of
astounding, somewhat satisfying, I think, to a lot of people as they see his dead carcass, now obvious that there are so many other dead people, 59
in total that he killed in that concert bowl below.
Real quickly, you just mentioned where one of those cameras was set up in the hallway. You mentioned it was in that room service tray. And someone
did ask the sheriff -- he had had room service brought up to him? And so that`s clearly the nexus here, that cart that we`re seeing. Maybe he`d
actually finished his enjoyable meal and then set this whole -- you know, set this whole killing system up.
SAVIDGE: Yes. I mean, this is what is so disturbing is that he thought it down to the last detail. In other words, if he had just put a camera out
there or maybe tried to hide it in some trash or something, it wouldn`t be in the right place. It wouldn`t have the right view, plus somebody would
see it and go, Hey, what`s that? But he orders room service with the knowledge that maybe wasn`t even hungry at all, but he needed the tray. He
needed something you could place in a hotel hallway that nobody would think twice of, and it could sit there for a while. That is some really...
BANFIELD: So one other quick question...
SAVIDGE: ... involved thinking.
BANFIELD: Martin, I just -- it just occurred to me that is it possible -- listen, I`m no expert here, but I know that you can set up a camera and
then you can watch it on your iPhone or any other kind of device. Do you think perhaps it`s possible he might have set up that camera on that room
service tray so that he could inside his hotel room see when they were coming down the hall? Ultimately, he was beaming images from the hallway
into his own location so he could, as a typical coward would, kill himself before they breached the door?
SAVIDGE: Certainly, the authorities believe that`s why he had the cameras placed as they were. They believe that that was to give him a kind of
tripwire, an early warning, an indication that somebody was coming up behind him because, of course, he`s focused looking out on the crowd below.
So you`re right, he has the ability to remotely be connected and always be looking at his back out in that hallway there and he could choose, whether
it`s to end his life or whether it`s to fight off the initial aggression that was placed against him. And that`s -- that`s what it was.
[20:10:04]Security from Mandalay came up first, and we know that other officers tried to get in and he briefly scuffled with them. It was a SWAT
team that eventually ended it all.
BANFIELD: Just unbelievable. Martin Savidge, great reporting from outside of the Tropicana. My thanks to Martin.
I want to bring in casino security expert Jeff Voyles. He joins me from St. Louis. Jeff, as a security expert in casinos, I`m just thinking that
your world has completely turned upside-down because this guy`s a high roller. His brother says he had $100 poker hands all the time on his video
poker games, says he had millions. Actually, his brother called him a millionaire. That remains to be seen. We do know that he transferred
$100,000 to the Philippines, possibly even recently.
So now you`re looking at a guy that`s your average customer at a casino, and you`re involved in casino security. What do you do now?
JEFF VOYLES, CASINO SECURITY EXPERT: Well, there`s a lot of things we need to rethink. There`s a lot of things that we need to identify as behaviors
we didn`t notice. And for him to be a high roller, we`re going to know who he is. And that goes back to tracking that person in a players club or a
players card. If we don`t know him, we need to find out who he is. And if he refuses something, we put that in the system, as well. If he refuses to
be identified, no ID, doesn`t want to get rated as a player, we put that in system, as well, an unrated player. That raises red flags. When you`re
playing that much money, you have to be able to identify yourself in the sense of to receive comps or anything else. So at that point, we need to
find out what that means. But we definitely have a -- a...
BANFIELD: I think my point, Jeff -- I`m still confused because he`s a high roller like anybody back here. I look at that Mandalay Bay and I could
point out probably 50 people on the way from check-in to my room who are high rollers who look just like he does, whose brothers would probably say
he was a great guy, whose neighbors would say is gentle giant.
What are we supposed to do about these people? You cannot personally search every person, and if that guy didn`t show any flags, and by all
accounts, he really didn`t, what`s your business now going to entail? How do you now keep a place like Mandalay Bay safe or any other of these
unbelievable hotels and casinos? Because they all look like him.
VOYLES: They sure do. And it`s our job not to -- to see him as that. It`s our job to see people differently. And they all have a value and they
all have different circumstances and different stories when they come into the casino. And they may look normal to anyone else, but they`re not to
us. We make sure that we identify these red flags and these things that come up.
He did look normal and he did move through the casino normally. We`re not going to always catch that. It`s the free society. We have 70,000,
80,000, 100,000 people coming through in a day. There`s a lot of normal looking people.
But people ask, How did you catch that person? Well, there`s behaviors that we look for. And so he may have had them, may have not. But when it
comes to that luggage, moving it in, I could have done it. I mean, you come in and -- and most -- some people could have done it. Most people
could have done it. They could have brought in, you know, three or four guns at time. We`re not going to stop the flow of the business to look at
somebody who`s carrying in golf clubs.
So it`s very -- it`s a very easy thing to do if you do case the joint. And the thing is that he will plan this, and he did. He planned it right
exactly the way he wanted. And it`s tough to find people like that.
BANFIELD: Jeff Voyles, you`ve got your work cut out for you, and I think the rest of us all do, too. I think it`s just all going to up to all of us
if we have a shot at all of stopping the next guy.
Stand by for a moment, if you will. I want to bring in Steve Moore. Steve Moore is a former FBI agent and an investigator as well. He`s a CNN
contributor and he joins me now live from Denver.
Steve, the word from Jessica Schneider (ph), our CNN correspondent in Washington, from here FBI sources was that -- that overwatches, structural
overwatches are now going to be a critical focal point for investigators who want to try to prevent this kind of thing from happening and that
counter-snipers are going to be something that we start hearing a lot of.
I want to get your take on that and what it means for me, if I`m going to Times Square or if I`m going to an Orioles game or if I`m going to a
Bluejays game. What exactly will that mean?
STEVE MOORE, FORMER FBI AGENT AND INVESTIGATOR: Well, it will be transparent to you. And to prove that, we`ve had counter-snipers going for
years and years at major sporting events like Super Bowls and World Series games, things like that.
But this is, unfortunately, the kind of thing that`s going to have to expand. And then you have to decide, Well, yes, Super Bowl, we get. But
what about a regular season game that has just as many people there? What about this concert in Central Park? How far into the weeds do you get?
And who provides that? It`s -- it is -- again, it`s like 9/11. We`re having to redefine our society and how we live based on something that
happened that nobody predicted.
BANFIELD: So can I ask you something, Steve? Look, 9/11, we all started to realize there are times when you just can`t prevent a guy from taking a
vehicle, be it an airplane or a big van, and ramming it into things or people.
[20:15:08]And ultimately, we`re starting to realize that whether it`s domestic terror or isn`t domestic terror, this was terrifying. This was
terrorizing. Whether it was meant to change politics, nobody knows that yet, but ultimately, at some point, do we just get to a point as a nation
where we start -- we`re going to rethink everything, not just how to prevent it with things, but with ideas, or behaviors or politics?
MOORE: Ashleigh, I think there are so many things that we have to do to repair our society, first of all. But then we have to go back and learn
how to find these people because what you just said is so correct. We can`t stop the weaponry. If we could wave a magic wand and make all
firearms go away today, tomorrow somebody would blow something up with ammonium nitrate. If we could take that away, somebody would run into a
crowd with a semi truck.
You cannot make society safe by removing the weapons because there`s -- look at a prison. There`s -- even inside prisons, there`s weapons. So
there`s nothing we can do about that. We have to use this -- this -- these brains that are bringing us to Mars, and we have to learn how to look
inside of people and how to predict this kind of behavior.
BANFIELD: I`ll only push back with this. A truck wouldn`t have killed 59 people necessarily in that concert bowl because they could protect against
that. Elsewhere in Europe, it`s happened. And those weapons, modified the way they were, with 22,000 people below, that`s what kills lots and lots of
people. So I think some people out there will be saying, Take away the weapons and you can still kill people. I think some people who are
watching say, Take away the weapons and you wouldn`t have dared see anything like that, 500-plus injured and 59 dead.
But that is a debate for another time. Even the president said that today. It`s a debate for another time. One of the big questions, though, right
now, because they are still in the heart of the investigation -- one of the big questions that they are trying to answer at this point is, how did he
get so many? Maybe should somebody have figured out this guy was starting to buy and accumulate and accumulate a war arsenal? Not only just found in
his hotel room but found at his homes and ultimately brought into a hotel room. Why was this guy not on anyone`s radar? Is it even possible he
could have been?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This individual was premeditated, obviously premeditated. The fact that he had the type of weaponry and amount of
weaponry in that room, it was pre-planned extensively. And I`m pretty sure he evaluated everything that he did in his actions, which is troublesome.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:22:25]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... in excess in 18 additional firearms, some explosives, several thousand rounds of ammo.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re here (INAUDIBLE) 32-135.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This was sent in by somebody who previously stayed in that exact suite. And I think it gives you a little insight perhaps into
the lifestyle that the shooter was living. As you can see, this was a very nice, spacious suite.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was cameras located outside of the room and inside of the room, along with the firearms.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: It`s hard to imagine those pictures that you`re seeing, the actual scene of where that horrifying crime began, that 400 yards away is
where it ended with the death of 59 people and the injury of over 500.
The number of injured actually slightly changed today, the police saying that some people were reported in two different locations. They think it`s
20 people less than the count from yesterday. So that`s just something different. It was 527 injured yesterday. It may be 507 or close towards
But this is still chaotic. They`re still trying to identify three people as of a few hours ago. And one thought about that, it might be harder to
identify the women than the men because don`t always carry our wallets on us and those purses and those bags where their ID might be might be still
in those -- those killing fields.
I want to bring in Christopher Robinson. He`s a firearms expert and he`s the owner of Christopher Robinson Forensics. He`s also a former crime lab
director and he joins me from Atlanta.
Chris, I wanted to just ask you a quick question about what Martin Savidge was reporting at top of the show. I think a lot of people are really
interested in how this happened. When you don`t have a right to have automatic weapons in the United States and yet we heard what sounded like
automatic weapons fire, everyone`s been talking about the bump stock accessory. We have a photograph that shows the bump stock accessory on one
of the weapons purported to be inside the room of the killer. It`s hard to make it out and it`s hard to explain it to the audience.
And when we get to the photo, I`ll -- I`ll let you know. But it`s a close- up of a long rifle. And towards butt end of the rifle is the yellow circle that we`ll eventually see, right there. And the bump stock accessory is
Is it easy to spot? Should anyone be able to see it? Are we supposed to know that that`s on there? And if you see it, should you worry because
nobody should have it, or does everyone have these and they`re more critically dangerous than the gun itself?
CHRISTOPHER ROBINSON, FIREARMS EXPERT: Well, no, ma`am, you wouldn`t notice the difference. I mean, essentially, it looks just like normal
stock on the rifle. And you place it to your shoulder, and when you pull the trigger, as the recoil of the gun goes back and forth, it just cycles
the action, essentially making the gun a fully automatic.
[20:25:12]The scary thing would be you`d say, Could everybody own one? It costs about $120 to $150. You can go buy one legally right now, if you
BANFIELD: So I`ve spent a little bit of time at gun range. And listen, I grew up with a gun rack. I grew up shooting targets out my back door. But
I`d never seen this before and I`d never heard of it at the gun range, either. I spent a lot of time there. But is this something that a lot of
people around America see at a gun range, people having fun with them and using these bump stock accessories, or are they really a little more rare
than I imagine?
ROBINSON: You can`t use them at a gun range because you can`t fire a fully automatic weapons at most gun ranges. They won`t allow them to be fired.
So you wouldn`t see one of these at the gun range. You would have to have -- you can buy one of these and place it on your gun, but you wouldn`t be
able to test fire at any local gun range. You`d have to fire it in a private facility.
BANFIELD: So you`re talking about a private facility but no official -- why? Is that because it`s dangerous to the people who are there, or is
there some other kind of regulation I don`t know about?
ROBINSON: No, that`s correct. It`d be dangerous to people there. A gun can get away from you with the fully automatic and start to, you know, rise
up and shoot into the ceiling or shoot bystanders beside you. So they won`t let you shoot them at a normal gun range. You can go out in the
desert and shoot them or go to your private property and practice, if you want to, but you can`t shoot them at a normal gun range.
BANFIELD: So in front of you -- tell me first of all two things. Exactly what is that weapon? Did you see a weapon like that in any of the photos
that we were showing? And then I`m going to ask you about the bipod on the front. I`m assuming that`s a bipod on the front, right?
ROBINSON: It is, yes, ma`am. This is an AR-10. This shoots a .308 cartridge that you see here, the larger of the cartridges. This is a 30-
round magazine. This is a 60-round magazine. On the photos that you just showed me a minute ago, you could see the one with the bipod. You can see
the one with the magazine. It almost appears to be on one of the photos that there`s magazines that are bonded together with a double magazine,
which means it holds two magazines in the connecter there.
The second gun that I have, this is .223 rifle that you see in front of me. And so it just fires the smaller cartridge, but essentially, it`s an AR-15.
It`s just a smaller cartridge, but again, both of theses are very lethal at up to 1,000 yards.
BANFIELD: So Chris, can I ask you just -- a lot of us have been talking in the field about the number of weapons in the room and why someone would
need that many guns. Can you not just do the same thing with one and keep reloading? And someone else mentioned that the gun itself, after
repetitive firing, would be damaged, would actually heat up so significantly, it would be damaged. And I`m trying to put myself in that
room to think if he`s -- he`s literally firing so much out of one gun, it destroys itself, and he moves on to the next and tosses it to the side and
gets the next one. Can you help me understand that?
ROBINSON: When you start firing a weapon fully automatic, it begins to overheat the barrel. Now, these barrels are designed to withstand great
temperatures. I think what we`re seeing is him moving from one platform to another. But essentially, what you just said was, I could place the
magazine in the weapon, discharge the magazine and place another one in very quickly.
So the answer to your question would be yes. You could do just as much damage with one gun. If I had 10 magazines or a large drum magazine like
this, I could fire the same number of shots as if I had 10 weapons. So there would be no need for that many rifles. It`s just overkill.
BANFIELD: So I mean, obviously -- clearly overkill, 59 people dead, over 500 injured at this point. What you`re saying to me, though, is that a guy
who over the course of several days brought 10 suitcases filled with 23 guns into that hotel room, he wanted to play. He didn`t need them. He
could have done just the same amount of damage, killed just the number of people he wanted to kill. He did this because he wanted to play maybe with
those different weapons, he was having fun with them? Is that possible?
ROBINSON: Sure. Yes, ma`am. I mean, I just think to get all these weapons in -- they`re quite large. So to carry 23 weapons into the hotel
room, I just think, logistically -- I`m just trying to figure how he did it.
BANFIELD: Well, then also, he could have -- like you said, the weapon overheats, but he would have been able to fire as many rounds, changed the
cartridges just as quickly as putting this gun down and picking up the next. He would have been able to do everything that he did on Sunday night
with one weapon and lots and lots of cartridges, correct?
CHRISTOPHER ROBINSON, FIREARMS EXPERT: Absolutely. Yes, ma`am. Yes, ma`am.
BANFIELD: So, can you think for a minute why this guy would put himself at such risk of being caught before he was able to exact his sick plan by
carding in 23 of these assault weapons?
ROBINSON: No, ma`am. I just think unless he was planning something greater and he thought that maybe he needed more weapons. Again, like you just
said, maybe it`s just in his mind. He just wanted to have all of these different kinds of weapons so he could decide at the time of the occurrence
of the shooting which one he would go to. So, I just -- I can`t fathom that, no ma`am.
BANFIELD: It just makes it all the more twisted and difficult to sort of comprehend. Christopher Robinson, thank you very much for helping us sort
of get through. There are a lot of weapons and it`s hard to know exactly what they are from the photographs that have leaked and which ones were
used and which ones may never have been used, but hopefully that will all come out in the investigation.
Sir, thank you so much. There is also the notion that those photographs you saw showed a dead man, showed the dead killer. And ultimately, he`s part of
the processing of the crime. So, obviously, a lot of questions that are going to come up after the break and that is about autopsying him. Why do
we need to know why he died? Why do we need to spend a dime on that?
And at least we don`t have to prosecute him. At least it`s not going to be a million dollar death penalty case. At least it was the cost of his own
bullet that stopped him from being part of us. Also, I want to show you a couple of pictures I took from my own hotel room this morning because as I
looked down, I was at same vantage point as that murderer.
And it was this far away, 400 yards. And that`s what`s left behind today. All of those people`s belongings, their concert chairs, their backpacks,
their purses, maybe their picnics, everything they left behind when they ran, ran for their lives. That`s the crime scene today.
[20:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): I have three critical patients in my vehicle (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): I`m inside the Mandalay Bay on the 31st floor. I can hear the automatic fire coming from one floor ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Be advised, it is automatic fire. Fully automatic fire from an elevated position. Take cover.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): People that were injured were coming in and bleeding. Everyone is just sprinting. People barricading themselves
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): There`s dead people everywhere.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): We have multiple casualties. GSW to the medical tent. Multiple casualties.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Sheriff here said today it was calls from inside the Mandalay Hotel that were able to actually help them find that killer ultimately
after what was thought to be about an hour since the shooting began.
Governor here declared a public health and medical disaster which means that people from out of state can come here and help with this disaster
without the requisite difficult paperwork.
People all over the country know this trauma all to well especially Dr. Chadwick Smith. He is the trauma surgeon at Orlando Health. He was also in
charge of the triage during the Pulse nightclub disaster.
Dr. Smith, thank you so much for being here. I wanted to ask you with your expertise after the cold nightclub disaster. I can only imagine the chaos
trying to do the triage. How do you just for starters I.D. the dead if they don`t have I.D. on them?
CHADWICK SMITH, TRAUMA SURGEON, ORLANDO HEALTH: Well, identifying patients who are deceased really goes up -- is up to the medical examiner at that
point. My job as a trauma surgeon is to triage the patients that are most ill and get them operative care as soon as possible.
BANFIELD: So we heard from other trauma centers that there`s a color-coding system for when mass casualties come in. Can you walk me through that
SMITH: Yes, there is a color-coding system. You know, green for patients that are, you know, mildly injured, what we would call the walking wounded.
Yellow for less injured patients, somewhat more severely, but not critical. And then red for critical patients. And then black labels for patients that
are either deceased or on death`s door.
BANFIELD: I can only imagine though after Pulse and then certainly assuming here in Las Vegas that there`s an inordinate number of critical patients.
How do you decide between who gets treated first when there are so many who need it right away?
SMITH: It certainly requires good utilization of scarce resources and basically those that are most critical but have a chance to survive are the
ones that would get treatment first. Those that are not expected to survive in this situation would not be treated. And then
[20:40:00] you want to do the most good for the most people.
BANFIELD: So the training -- we`ve heard for a lot of the local responders up here actually incorporated what so many people learned down there. Are
you finding that more and more people are seeking out this kind of training because we seem to be seeing these kinds of shooting instances where there
are massive numbers of casualties on a sadly increasing level. Are you helping with expertise in this regard?
SMITH: Yes, ma`am. Our organization has given over 200 different presentations on various topics, regarded to disaster management. And
unfortunately in our society today, I think that is necessary. And I think it helps in some way to prepare for the next event.
BANFIELD: Let`s just hope that there won`t be one. But I dare say I am going to be sent on this kind of story over and over again. It hasn`t
changed since I moved to this country two decades ago. Hasn`t changed in last few years. Didn`t change after 20 little kids were massacred at their
school. And I don`t know if it`s going to change despite having to listen to this crap over and over.
Dr. Chadwick Smith, thank you and thank you for helping others. It a process -- terrible things that are coming to a community near them.
I want to bring back Joseph Scott Morgan, certified death investigator, professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University. I want to talk a
little bit, Joe, if I can, regarding the death room. The place where -- courtesy of The Daily Mail, we are seeing photograph of the killer himself
lying dead amongst his arsenal, his cartridges.
As a certified death investigator, I am assuming you know exactly what is going to happen to him. Walk me through the process. What will they do with
him? Will he go -- will his body go anywhere near the 59 other bodies that he caused the death of?
JOSEPH SCOTT MORGAN, CERTIFIED DEATH INVESTIGATOR: I can`t necessarily speak to what they will do procedurally, but I can say that the Las Vegas
Coroner`s Office is a class act, they always have been. They have one facility. And they will take his remains to the facility where he will be
Now, prior to that, his body has been processed at the scene as if it were a piece of evidence, as it should have been, to get an idea as to what was
going on. The important part here is this. Let`s go back to 1966 and talk about a guy named Charles Whitman who killed many people from a tower at
University of Texas.
And it was important that they do an autopsy on him because at end of the day, they discovered that he had a brain tumor. Whether or not that
actually impacted or not, some people believe that it did, his ability to control impulse urges, is going to be important. I got to tell you, I want
to know, I want to get some answers.
You know, I want to know what would compel one human being to go out and strike out at so many people because right now, we`re dumbfounded. We don`t
have any answers to this. I want to make sure that everything is covered. I know that Vegas will. This is important. With Whitman, they didn`t do
toxicology on him. He had already been embalmed. I want to make sure that everything is covered in this case.
I want answers, the public wants answers, the families want answers. And I don`t care what has to happen. This guy has got to be thoroughly examined
and everything thoroughly documented. We need to study this for as long as we possibly can.
BANFIELD: It makes you wonder if there`s any potential for CTE which maybe they will look for in an autopsy, but I can tell you this, his brother,
Eric, said while he was really great at sports growing up, he wasn`t much for team playing. He wasn`t much of a team player. Looking back, I think we
can all agree, he was not a part of the team of humanity. That`s for sure. Joe, thank you so much. I do appreciate it.
MORGAN: Thank you, Ashleigh.
BANFIELD: Straight ahead, some inspiring survival stories from what was a deadly attack, a mass murder, including a woman who was pulled to safety
and then hid nearby in a refrigerator truck. Find out what she and her friend did to try to calm others as they sat out this massacre inside the
freezing confines of a freezer.
[20:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): A nurse who died protecting his wife. A special ed teacher. A construction worker. Rachel Parker, a records
technician for California Police Department. Twenty-year-old Bailey Schweitzer was with her mom when she was shot and killed. Jennifer Irvine
was a San Diego attorney, passionate about helping people. Rhonda LeRocque was a Massachusetts mom who loved country music.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: To the second night of remembrances here as the sun begins to set in Las Vegas. There are at least three vigils planned. But let me tell you
something about Las Vegas, it doesn`t matter what is planned.
There were pop-up vigils all over the strip yesterday, spontaneous. People getting together and remembering all of those who died and those who were
hurt as well. I want to go to Chris Kudialis real quickly
[20:50:00] with the Las Vegas Sun. The investigation is just in its opening (ph) right now, Chris. What is the next step in the investigation? When do
we find out more?
CHRIS KUDIALIS, REPORTER, LAS VEGAS SUN: We`ll be finding out more shortly here, Ashleigh, in a matter of 10 minutes. Clark County Sheriff Joe
Lombardo will be briefing the media here in Las Vegas. Earlier in his last press briefing at 1:00 p.m. said the next 48 hours would be huge for their
investigation and what we know here in the media and the public.
BANFIELD: Chris, thanks very much. We`re going to check in with you and keep tabs on just what more they find out, what more they release, and
where this investigation goes. I want to bring in now Nicole Ruffino, she was there.
When Stephen Paddock opened fire on 22,000 people at Route 91 Harvest Festival, she ended up hiding in a freezer truck. It was parked behind the
stage. Nicole, how many people were in there with you and how long were you in the freezer?
NICOLE RUFFINO, WITNESSED SHOOTING: Yes, I was in the freezer for about 20 minutes. There was about 25 to 30 of us hiding.
BANFIELD: How did you decide when it was right to emerge? And how many people decided at the same time to make a break for it? What was it that
pushed you to move out of that secure location?
RUFFINO: Well, after we heard a couple of rounds of gunfire, we decided to go out there and check if it was safe yet. So, my friend, Brian (ph),
really was the one who took us in there to safety, me and my best friend. He went up there with another gentleman, opened the door, and that`s when
we heard even more gunfire.
And we realized it wasn`t safe yet. We hid in there for another 10 to 15 minutes. And when we didn`t hear anymore gunfire, we opened the door and we
all started piling out and that`s when we just saw chaos. It was awful.
BANFIELD: I want to get to that in a moment, but first, the time line, because the sheriff has said it was nine minutes of shooting. Others have
said it was over an hour before they actually got to the gunman.
Can you sort of think through how long you were in the freezer, 10 to 15 minutes, you thought that the shooting had stopped? You made (INAUDIBLE)
continue to hear gunfire. Help us work the time line of just how long the bursts kept coming and going.
RUFFINO: I really had no sense of time. The only thing on my mind was to stay calm, focus on staying calm so that others would be calm, and getting
us out of there. So I would say we spent about close to 20 minutes in the freezer. Once we left and started running out, once we found an exit, I
thought we heard more gunshots, but I`m absolutely not 100 percent sure how long it lasted.
BANFIELD: There seems to be so much confusion that were bursts of gunfire for nine minutes and then pauses and maybe that`s what the sheriff was
saying, that then there might have been additional gunfire. We`re still early in the investigation, trying to find out exactly how long the
shooting went on for.
Just quickly, I heard a story that your friend was with you helping people in the freezer by hugging them to try to calm them. Explain that to me.
Tell me about it.
RUFFINO: Yes. My best friend visiting me from California was amazing. She was the most calmed person in the freezer with us. There was a girl with
her boyfriend. Her boyfriend was a little bit drunk and didn`t really know how to react.
He was kind of upset and angry and kind of making people more scared. So, my friend comforted his girlfriend, holding her in her arms while she was
crying and just telling her it was going to be OK.
BANFIELD: And just real quickly, Nicole, I had heard that there were people trying -- when you emerged from the freezer trying to build a ramp to get
up and out of the fence, they kept slipping. I`m just so glad you got out of there and that you`re safe. I thank you for being with us tonight and
the best as you move forward too Nicole. Thanks so much.
RUFFINO: Thank you so much. Thanks for having me.
BANFIELD: Fifty-nine people were not as lucky as Nicole. They lost their lives in this bloodshed, this massacre. Fifty-nine people who had families,
59 people who loved their families and whose families loved them. Their lives taken by a mad man. I want to pause here for a minute to remember the
victims of the horror on the Vegas strip.
[20:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: The numbers from Sunday, still stand at 59 dead, over 500 injured.
[21:00:00] But as we close out the show, I think we can say today is good day because no one else died from this incident today. Thanks for watching,
everybody. I`m Ashleigh Banfield. See you back here again tomorrow night. In the meantime, stay tuned. "Forensic Files" is up next.