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Source: Kushner Considered Back-Channel Communications with Kremlin; Will Congressional Committees Look into Kushner, Security Clearance; Trump Reacts to Deadly Stabbing in Portland, Oregon; Leighton, Kirby Honor Veterans. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired May 29, 2017 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[13:30:00] ELIZABETH SHERWOOD RANDALL, FORMER DEPUTY ENERGY SECRETARY: We will need to learn more about what the intent was of the back channel, but it is not standard operating procedure for a transition team.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Graham, you worked at the Defense Department for several defense secretaries. What's your reaction?

GRAHAM ALLISON, DIRECTOR, BELFER CENTER FOR SCIENCE & INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS, HARVARD UNIVERSITY & FORMER ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Well, I think it's very complicated and there's going to be a lot more about this story. First, this administration is weird. So you have to start there. But in that context, actually the contact between a member of a new administration and Russians is not unprecedented. Again, most of the noise that we hear about says, oh, unprecedented. Actually, December 1st seems to be a faded day. On December 1, 1960, that is three weeks after John F. Kennedy was elected his brother met with the Soviet intelligence officer in Washington for conversation and communication about the possibility of a new summit and also to provide a warning against Soviet action against berlin. Basically, Kushner ended up meeting the same day. The fact that he did it at the Russian embassy, which he knew was under surveillance and he's proposing under surveillance to have a line of communication that will not be capable of being intercepted by NSA, that shows he's naive. But the fact that in prior administrations, even before they took office, governments have started versions of communications with other governments, that's actually happened.

BLITZER: I assume there were some communications during the Obama transition, Liz, with foreign governments probably the Russians themselves. But this notion of communicating through a secret communications device at the Russian embassy, that strikes me as something different. But what does it strike you as?

SHERWOOD RANDALL: It's unusual. And it may be as Graham noted, naive, or it could be something more sinister. That's why the reporting being done on what happened is so important.

BLITZER: If it were only Jared Kushner involved in all of this, naivety, inexperience, that may be an explanation, but you had a former director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, General Michael Flynn, who was involved in those early December meetings as well, a man with an enormous experience of experience in the U.S. intelligence community, suggests something else.

Graham Allison, once again, congratulations on the new book.

Graham Allison has a new book entitled, "Destin for War."

Thanks so much for joining us.

Liz Sherwood Randall, thanks to you as well.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Coming up, will congressional committees investigating Russian meddling now take a closer look at Jared Kushner and his security clearance?

Also, Congressman Ted Deutch is standing by. There you see him. He'll weigh in on all of this when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:37:00] BLITZER: We are waiting to hear from the special counsel investigating all the Russia alleged meddling in the U.S. presidential election, Robert Mueller. He's a former FBI director. In the next hour, he's scheduled to make his first public appearance since taking over the Russian probe. We'll be monitoring that. Stand by.

Meanwhile President Trump is back at work at the White House today, facing growing concerns, though, over one of his top advisers, his son-in-law, Jared Kushner, and questions about reports Kushner considered creating a system for back channel communications with Russia before President Trump took office.

Here's the secretary of Homeland Security, John Kelly, this weekend addressing the controversy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KELLY, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: I mean, multiple ways to communicate back and forth is a good thing with any country I think, particularly a country that's like Russia. So it doesn't bother me. I mean, obviously, during the transition period, the people in transition, the incoming Trump administration is not in a position to do anything to inhibit what the Obama administration, literally days before they transitioned out. So again, as they begin to build relationships, there's nothing wrong with that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Let's bring in Congressman Ted Deutch. He a Democrat from Florida. He serves on the House Foreign Affairs Committee and the Judiciary Committee, as well as the Ethics Committee.

Congressman, thank you for joining us.

REP TED DEUTCH, (D), FLORIDA: Great to be with you. Thanks, Wolf. BLITZER: You just heard John Kelly, what he had to say. The president also defending Kushner. Do you accept Kelly's reasoning that this is an acceptable way to build a new relationship with the Russians?

DEUTCH: The president's return from his trip, at least, questions about the relationship with Russia are greater than ever. It's not just a question of building relationships with another country. What's so concerning about this is the revelation that the president -- one of the president's closest advisers, his son-in-law, before the president was even inaugurated, wanted to establish communications with Russia using Russian facilities, and this is the country that we know attempted to influence the outcome of the election. So I'm not at all comforted by any of the words that you just played and that we just heard. This is very concerning. And it requires a very thorough investigation.

BLITZER: Does it make any difference to you that Kushner was not alone? That Michael Flynn, the general, the fired national security adviser, during the transition, he was there in that meeting with the Russian Ambassador Kislyak?

DEUTCH: No. That actually makes me even more concerned. We know that Jared Kushner is a person of interest. He's been identified as such. We know that Jared Kushner urged the president to fire Director Comey. We obviously know of the president's efforts to try to get the investigation of General Flynn to stop. So, no, that only makes me more concerned.

Frankly, on this Memorial Day, especially of all days, it just sends shivers down my spine to think about the president in the Oval Office bragging about having fired the FBI director. These concerns, the concerns that we had before, are profoundly greater now as a result of this revelation.

[13:30:28] BLITZER: I just want to be precise. We don't know he's a so-called person of interest. We do know he's being looked at closely. So far, based on everything we're hearing, there's no allegations of any wrongdoing or any criminal intent or anything like that. But there's plenty of suspicion that what he did may have been politically at least wrong, if not in other ways as well.

Some of your colleagues think his security clearances should be at least suspended. Adam Schiff, the ranking member of the Intelligence Committee, has suggested that may be a consideration. Do you agree?

DEUTCH: Well, I think that certainly they're going to take a look at the details surrounding these allegations and when we know the -- when we know all of the facts we can make that determination. But it's a real concern that someone with the security clearance that he has may have been attempting to create this back channel. Again, Wolf, it's not some back way of communicating using standard phone lines. It's a back channel of communication using Russian facilities. It all just is consistent with what we've seen in recent days and the president's trip to Europe and his meetings with the NATO leaders. Everything we've seen plays into Russian efforts to decrease and limit American power in Europe. So we'll have the opportunity to think about security clearances. We need to be looking at bigger issues coming out of the president's trip about whether or not the United States is still playing the role as leader that it needs to play in Europe.

BLITZER: Let me get back to Michael Flynn. He was there in early December, if you believe all of these reports. He's a former director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, an enormous amount of experience in the U.S. intelligence community. And if he tells the much-less experienced Jared Kushner in early December. let's have this conversation with Kislyak and let's work out some way of dealing in a back channel with the Russians so that the U.S. intelligence community, the Obama administration, which he was presumably concerned about, doesn't know about this, would that be a problem?

DEUTCH: It is if -- there are two issues being raised by this allegation, Wolf. The first is that we only have one president at a time in the United States. And if there was some effort to create a separate policy than the policy of the Obama administration in December when President Obama was still in offense, that's a concern. But again, for people who are thinking about this, what really concerns them is not just the notion that there was some effort to try to communicate with the Russians, the country that tried to influence the out of come our election. It's the fact that there was an effort to do so using the Russians facilities, doing it not just in secret but in secret and with the collaboration of the Russians. I think that should be of grave concern to all of us.

BLITZER: A lot of people are deeply concerned about that. I've got to say that communication channel never did get off the ground, but there's certainly a lot of questions outstanding.

Congressman Ted Deutch, thanks very much for joining us.

DEUTCH: Thank you, Wolf. Good to be with you.

BLITZER: Coming up, the president calls the attack on three men on a Portland commuter train unacceptable.

And a golf legend arrested, suspected of DUI. Details when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:47:51] BLITZER: President Trump now reacting to a deadly stabbing in Portland, Oregon, that claimed two lives. Tweeting this morning on his POTUS account, quote, "The violent attacks in Portland on Friday are unacceptable. The victims were standing up to hate and intolerance. Our prayers are with them."

The suspect could face federal hate crime charges after killing two men and injuring a third.

Polo Sandoval is joining us with the very latest.

What are you hearing, Polo? POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, we can tell you that Destinee

Mangam is now stepping forward and with a specific message here for these three individuals who have essentially stepped up when he was the subject of a verbal abuse.

I want you to hear part of the conversation that she shared with CNN affiliate KPTV. The message for these three men that stepped up to help, two of them paying with their lives.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DESTINEE MANGAM, HATE CRIME VICTIM: Thank you to the people who put their life on the line for me because they didn't even know me. And they lost their lives because of me and my friend. And the way we looked. I just want to say thank you to them and their family. And that I appreciate them. Because without them we probably would be dead right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANDOVAL: Among those two strangers has stepped up to help, Ricky Best, who is an Army veteran, had been employed by the city of Portland as a technician there. Also killed in this attack is this gentleman that you see on the left there. He is somebody who is remembered by his family as hoping to start a life with wife and children when his wife was cut short. The third individual, Michael Fletcher, the 21-year-old gentleman who is still in the hospital and is expected to pull through -- Wolf?

[13:49:40] BLITZER: Let's hope he does.

Polo, thank you very much. Polo Sandoval reporting a very disturbing story.

Star golfer, Tiger Woods, spent part of his morning in jail in Florida. Here's the mug shot. Woods was arrested on suspicion of driving under the influence in Jupiter, Florida, at around 3:00 a.m. eastern time. Police aren't releasing any other details about the arrest. Tiger Woods was released without posting bond around 10:00 a.m. eastern time earlier today.

Coming up, it's a day of remembrance here in the United States. President Trump paid his respects to fallen servicemembers on this Memorial Day. After the break, we're going to talk to two veterans who are honoring close friends and families today.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: President Trump paying his respect to fallen servicemembers at Arlington National Cemetery earlier this morning. He laid a wreath at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. And in his Memorial Day address, the president thanked the families whose loved ones died as heroes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We lost son asks daughters, husbands and wives, mothers and fathers. They each had their own names, their own stories, their own beautiful dreams. But they were all angels sent to us by God. And they all share one title in common and that is the title of hero.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[13:55:25] BLITZER: Two veterans are joining us now, CNN military analyst, retired Air Force Colonel, Cedric Leighton, and CNN military and diplomatic analyst, Retired Admiral John Kirby. Both are honoring someone very special to them today.

John Kirby, you lost a very close friend in Afghanistan.

JOHN KIRBY, CNN MILITARY & DIPLOMATIC ANALYST: Jeremy Leonard, posthumously promoted to Lieutenant Colonel. She died as a major. She was on a partnering mission in eastern Afghanistan. An argument broke out, targeted gunfire, and Jaimie was killed almost instantly as well as another Army officer that was with her. She was an intelligence officer, one of the finest young Army officers I have ever known. And literally it sounds like a cliche, but she did light up a room when she walked in. She was that kind of a person. There isn't a day that goes by that I don't think about her and miss her.

BLITZER: Everything you have written about her and said about her, a wonderful woman, and a great veteran of the military.

KIRBY: Indeed.

BLITZER: All of us pay our deepest, deepest respects.

Cedric, you want to speak about someone who was a very close family member.

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: My father. He was a member of the Army for 20 years. He served from 1937 to 1957. Retired as a captain. He died Thanksgiving Day in 2013, but he lived a long life he was one of those that contributed in the silent way by being an intelligence officer and intelligence NCO during World War II and Korea. A lot of the things he did helped pave the way, along with his comrades, for the successful invasion of Europe during World War II and then also the end of the Korean conflict. So I just wanted to salute him this Memorial Day in the name of all the veterans that we know and hold dear.

BLITZER: You went into the military, at least, in part, because you wanted to follow if your dad's footsteps.

LEIGHTON: Absolutely, I ended up in the intelligence world, like he did, straight from the family business, and went into the Air Force.

BLITZER: Was he upset about that?

LEIGHTON: Not at all.

(LAUGHTER)

BLITZER: You went to the Navy. That was not necessarily the family business.

KIRBY: It was. My grandfather was on a battleship in World War I. My dad was on an aircraft carrier during the Korean conflict. There was five boys in the family. My dad made us all join the military. You could choose what service but everybody has to go in. So me, it was --

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: But the pressure was on to join the military?

KIRBY: I felt a unique pressure from dad to join the Navy, yeah.

BLITZER: Cedric, on this Memorial Day, people are watching us here in the United States and around the world, what do you want them to think about on this very special day here in the United States?

LEIGHTON: I think what people should think about is the sacrifices that all these people made. Whether they are members of the heroes that President Trump talked about who gave their lives in battle or simply served and did the noble things that are important from a standpoint of freedom, I think everybody not only in the United States, but also around the world needs to understand that what our military stands for is very unique, and the sacrifices that they made are along with the sacrifices of many nations, but they are very unique and special and created a special world.

BLITZER: What do you hope people are thinking about today?

KIRBY: I couldn't agree more with everything Cedric said. It's exactly right. The only thing I would add is remember the families. For each one of those headstones at Arlington or any military cemetery around the world, there's a family that's grieving and suffering, even today, no matter how long ago they lost that loved one. They were son, daughters, brothers, sisters, moms and dads, and so there are lots of people today around our country and around the world that need to be remembered a as well.

BLITZER: And Arlington National Cemetery, there's been these suggestions they are running out of space now. What's the latest?

KIRBY: As I understand it, it is running out of space. It wasn't envisioned when they developed it as a cemetery it would survive this long. They do have expansion plans in place to extend it out to at least 2040, is what I've heard now. But that was going to require good cooperation with local authorities here in Virginia and Washington, D.C., to make that happen. I understand they are working on that.

BLITZER: Let's not forget there are thousands of U.S. military personnel serving in Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria right now. All of them potentially in grave danger. We respect them and wish them only the best. And we remember all those who have fallen on this Memorial Day.

Thanks to both of you for joining us. (CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: That's it for me. Thanks very much for watching. I'll be back 5:00 p.m. eastern in "The Situation Room."

In the meantime, the news continues right here on CNN.

(MUSIC)

[14:00:09] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, thank you so much.

Good to be with you on this Monday. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you for joining, especially on --