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Officials Fear Up To 40 People May Be Dead in Fire; China Blames Taiwan For "Shenanigan" Trump Call; Officials Give Oakland Fire Update in News Conference; Sen. Joe Donnelly: Trump Carrier Deal Welcome News. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired December 3, 2016 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[17:00:06] POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour. Five p.m. Eastern. I'm Poppy Harlow in New York, you are live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

We continue to follow the breaking news this hour. A city in shock and mourning after a fire in Oakland, California has left at least nine people dead. Officials worried though right now that the death toll could be much higher. With as many as forty feared possibly dead after this fast moving blaze spread through a crowd at a party in Oakland last night. Oakland's mayor will speak to reporter shortly. As soon as that press conference begins, we will bring it to you live of course.

And this aerial view of the burned warehouse that was used as the venue for this dance party, nine fatalities again. The whereabouts though of 25 other people still unknown at this hour. Fire officials say the building was full of clutter and obviously they're dealing with a lot of debris right now. Just in to CNN, we are now seeing pictures from inside of what it looked like before. This is where a lot of artists and musicians would gather. We're told by people who knew those that worked here or lived here it. It was sort of a mixed residential and also commercial space and an artist studio.

While we wait for the Oakland mayor to speak, let's go straight to our Dan Simon, he is right outside of the warehouse. Do we have any updates, Dan, at this hour about A, if any more of those victims had been located or missing people have been located and B, what started the fire?

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Poppy, we have just been told that that press conference with the mayor should start in about 15 minutes. And I would expect a much thorough briefing in terms of what we've heard thus far. I think they'll going to update us on the actual death toll. Right now the confirmed number is nine. But we know that fire crews as well as personnel from the coroner's office, they have been inside the building for over an hour now and they've been pulling out bodies.

So we would expect more of that information to come forward in terms of the number of people dead. But obviously Poppy, this was such a horrific situation, yet people gathering for a holiday party, there was live music up on the second floor, at about 50 to 100 people there enjoying the evening and then the flames broke out at 11:30 at night. That's when the call came in to 911. We don't know how this fire started. We do know that we're talking about a 10,000 square foot warehouse. You talked about it. It's mainly an art studio but apparently some people lived there as well. Some of the stories that we're hearing are just horrific. This fire spread so quickly that some people actually jumped out of the window to safety and those who obviously could not reach an exit obviously died inside -- Poppy.

HARLOW: And Dan, also, we know that this building has a history of city safety violations and complaints. Like what?

SIMON: Well, it is concerning. We know that just last month there was a code violation for what has been described as an illegal interior construction, something of that nature. Also, some hazardous waste and debris was discovered. So, that's going to be one of the things that authorities are going to be looking at. Did some of these code violations aggravate or make the situation worse? We know that when firefighters went inside of the warehouse, there was a lot of clutter.

We have seen some of these pictures of what the space looked like before the fire took place and it definitely does look like there was a lot of stuff inside. You're talking about artists, people who are working on various crafts and such. Along with people actually living there. That would add up to a whole lot of stuff inside if you will and so we're told that authorities actually had a difficult time getting inside because there was so much clutter in the entry.

HARLOW: Yes. All right. Dan Simon, thank you very much. Stay with us. Again, Dan said that that press conference with Oakland's mayor will begin in just about 15 minutes. We'll bring it to you live. But now joining me on the phone, Cortez Stafford with the city of Atlanta Fire Department, just to give us a sense of what these firefighters and first responders are dealing with.

We're looking at images of the blaze last night, Cortez. It is immense. Obviously we know this is sort of a mixed use building. There have been reports that potentially that second floor was built in sort of a make-shift fashion. We know that there was only one staircase between the second floor and the lower level which made obviously people, you know, fleeing the flames, made it even more difficult for them. Walk us through what the firefighters are having to deal with here in the aftermath.

CORTEZ STAFFORD, ATLANTA FIRE DEPARTMENT (on the phone): Well, thanks, Poppy. So what we're looking at now, what the firefighters are looking at is the possible safety code and fire code violations. Those are going to be the definite starting points for where these guys were looking for, how this tragic incident happened. When you go into the structure and you see the types of pictures that you're looking at with the tons of material, the items in there, that building may not have been designated as a structure to hold that many people.

HARLOW: Right.

STAFFORD: When you get a fire permit, there's a situation where you have that can only hold so many people. If they violated that code, that could be a problem which may have contributed to why so many people were injured and lost their lives in this tragic fire today.

HARLOW: What do you make --

STAFFORD: Especially with only one staircase going downstairs.

[17:05:18] HARLOW: What do you make of the fact that it is now, you know, hours later? I mean, it's more than, you know, 14, 15 hours after this happened? And they still cannot, you know, locate at least 25 people. And they said they warned us and they said it's not because we believe that they're necessarily dead, we just -- we cannot reach them. Is that typical in a situation like this or does that surprise you?

STAFFORD: That does not surprise me. This is a recovery operation. Oakland fire not being able to locate the fire victims can be from a few different reasons. One, structural collapse of the structure may have come down, meaning the ceiling, roofing materials, the second floor may have all come down and maybe had fallen into a basement if there is a basement. So, just because they aren't able to locate those victims now, immediate doesn't mean that they won't locate them soon. And to say that they will get back in there, they also have to be aware and be sure that when they do go back in the structure, when it's safe for them to go back in the structure and there's no possibility of a collapse --

HARLOW: Right.

STAFFORD: -- for the firefighters there on the scene.

HARLOW: And that's the risk they're dealing with right now. One of the officials in the last press briefing said this is a very tricky building they are dealing with. There are -- debris and a fear of falling objects. It's been hard for them to even get in the front door today --

STAFFORD: Right.

HARLOW: -- let alone do a thorough search. When you look at this, they also said that they're beginning of course to look at this with an arson task force, not saying it is criminal at all but do they always look at it from that vantage point as well? Is that typical?

STAFFORD: That is something especially with live being lost in the situation. The Atlanta Fire Rescue Department today this afternoon had a two alarm apartment fire in the bucket area of Atlanta and unfortunately no persons were injured or lost their lives in that structure, but to say that the arson investigator did come out, we always want to know what's going on, what happened. And just because the arson investigators do come out doesn't mean it. It was a malicious act, it means that we want to get the most people out there to investigate what happened, especially with such a tragic event of some of the people losing their lives.

HARLOW: Uh-hm. Finally, as they do now work to recover the victims and to identify those that are missing, how do they then go about determining the cause? What is the first thing that your teams would be looking for?

STAFFORD: Well, the first thing we're going to be looking for is the owners of that space or the folks who were throwing that party or that artist event last night. We want to speak to them. We want to know exactly how many people they had in the building or we want to talk to the building's owner to understand the makeup of that structure. And considering the building had fire code violations in the past, it means that the Fire Department or some type of building inspector has been to that building before.

If it's the Fire Department, then that means they probably looked at that building before and said, hey, if we have an emergency at this location, how do we prepare for it? So that's a good place to start. Another good place to start is the witnesses and the people attending that event last night. That's going to be a great starting point to find out exactly what happened on that floor, why folks were unable to get out, where did the fire start, did anyone see anything malicious from an individual? Those are going to be the starting points for the fire investigators today.

HARLOW: Cortez Stafford, public information officer for Atlanta Fire and Rescues, thank you so much. Of course, that press conference about to begin in Oakland. We'll bring it to you as soon as it does.

Meantime, we have a lot to get to this hour. Coming up for us, President-Elect Donald Trump raising eyebrows with a single phone call. That call with the president of Taiwan. And it has the President-Elect doing something that no U.S. president has done in nearly four decades. Why does it matter? We'll dig into that.

Also, cage match, insults fly when Trump and Clinton aides come face to face.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KELLYANNE CONWAY, DONALD TRUMP'S ADVISER: Do you think I ran a campaign where white supremacists had a platform? You're going to look me in the face and tell me that?

JENNIFER PALMIERI, HILLARY CLINTON'S DIRECTOR OF COMMUNICATIONS: It did.

CONWAY: Really?

PALMIERI: Kellyanne, it did.

CONWAY: That's how you lost.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:12:46] HARLOW: It is the ten minute phone call, define decades of U.S. diplomatic norms. China has now filed a formal complaint with the United States after President-Elect Donald Trump spoke by phone with the president of Taiwan yesterday. It is something that no American president has done in nearly 40 years. The reason, China considers Taiwan part of its territory and since 1979 the U.S. has respected the so called one China policy. So, news of Donald Trump's phone call led Democratic Senator Chris Murphy to tweet this, these are major pivots in foreign policy without any plan.

That is how wars start. Donald Trump for his part down playing the call tweeting, "The president of Taiwan called me today to wish me congratulations on winning the presidency. Thank you."

Our Ivan Watson is with me. He is CNN senior international correspondent also has a unique perspective on this because he is based in Hong Kong. But we're lucky enough here in New York tonight. You know, partisans will have the partisan debate in a moment falling on different sides of this. Just speaking about the history of diplomacy here, how much should this matter to the American people and should it be concerning?

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the big question is, was it an intentional move, signaling of a shift, a way to try to test China. But you're playing with what is one of the kind of most delicately balanced pieces of U.S. foreign diplomacy. How to kind of have relations both with China and Taiwan, two countries are kind of -- two places that basically separated in 1949. How to have relations with China which insists the Taiwan is still part of it while also selling billions of dollars of weapons to China.

HARLOW: Right.

WATSON: The U.S. found a way to do it by not having official relationships --

HARLOW: So, the Taiwan relations agreement.

WATSON: -- with the Taiwanese government and so far you haven't had a war as a result and you're playing with that very carefully collaborated relationship with both of these entities.

HARLOW: Right. Obviously China's president, she doesn't like the fact that the Obama administration in 2015, you know, sold almost $2 billion worth of weapons to Taiwan.

WATSON: They don't like the current leader of Taiwan either.

HARLOW: Who is more sort of focused on independence than predecessors.

WATSON: Right.

HARLOW: Donald Trump pointed that out today in a tweet and he said, look, how can you criticize a phone call when the current administration was willing to sell them weapons?

WATSON: You know, the initial response from Beijing is they're clearly trying to down play this some. HARLOW: Right.

WATSON: They lodge a formal complaint with the White House ironically and also made a point though, they called these shenanigans by the Taiwan leadership.

HARLOW: Right. And they blame the Taiwanese more than Trump.

WATSON: Yes. They do but they also made a point that the so-called one China policy where the U.S. recognizes communist China as the sole government of all of China.

HARLOW: Uh-hm.

WATSON: They say that that's a cornerstone of U.S.-Chinese relations.

HARLOW: Right.

WATSON: And these relations between the U.S. super power and China rising super power --

HARLOW: Yes.

WATSON: They are rivals, they are competitors at times but they're also trading partners with a lot of common interests and it's worked so far.

HARLOW: Right.

WATSON: So, when you rock that boat, there can be consequences down the road.

HARLOW: So, just to give people a sense of how important that steady ship is. I mean, not only are they are largest trading partner, right? They hold the most U.S. debt. They are a huge part of the global economy and we need them to agree with us as they sit on the U.N. Security Council.

WATSON: That's right. You need them to help kind of reign in North Korea as it test nuclear weapons and threatens its neighbors who happen to be very close American allies. There are areas where the U.S. and China don't agree. The South China Sea where -- China has been building islands and kind of claiming vast trunks of territory. You need cooperation on Iran and on climate change.

HARLOW: And on the Iran sanctions.

WATSON: Yes.

HARLOW: What's the international reaction been to this that you're hearing? Where you usually are which is in Hong Kong?

WATSON: They called this like a historical dialogue. They're always very excited about international recognition, they crave it since the U.S. basically suspended official -- we don't have an embassy in Taiwan in 1979. HARLOW: Right.

WATSON: So, they're excited about it. I was just reading one of the Chinese state media outlets which is calling this a possible test of China by the President-Elect. And if it's interpreted that way, there could be consequences down the road.

HARLOW: All right. Ivan Watson, thank you very much for the reporting, we appreciate it.

I want to bring in my panel now, Charles Blow, CNN political commentator and an op-ed columnist from the New York Times. Also with us, Ben Ferguson, also a CNN political commentator and host of "The Ben Ferguson" show.

Charles, let me begin with you. Because as Ivan and I just talked about, here's what Trump tweeted. "Interesting how the U.S. sells Taiwan billions of dollars of military equipment but I should not accept a congratulatory call." I know you don't like this move but does he have a point?

[17:17:30] CHARLES BLOW, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Here's the bigger point. Right. There are basic protocols, how to be careful about, this is a very touchy situation about how we deal both with China and with Taiwan. The State Department has -- could have advised I think him on how to deal with that. He may have still decided to take calls or to even make a call after the fact. But the idea that they are not necessarily in the loop, that people who are familiar with our kind of diplomacy in the South China Sea are not in the loop and only the people who are entering, coming and going from Trump Tower are kind of part of that conversation should -- is problematic to me.

Because what we want to do is have some continuity of protocol. And if he cannot muster that, if he, you know, if he is kind of extemporaneous in his kind of diplomacy, that becomes a problem and you don't want to trigger more problems that we already have in that part of the world.

HARLOW: Ben, look, some are saying, oh, perhaps Trump didn't know or understand the implications of this phone call. His team Kellyanne Conway says he absolutely did. He was, you know, it was exactly what he was doing by accepting the call.

BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Sure.

HARLOW: I want to show you a tweet that my producer found from 2011. Donald Trump tweeted this. You know, long time ago. Why is Barack Obama delaying the sale of F-16 aircraft to Taiwan? Wrong message to send to China #timetogettough. That is exactly the opposite of what he's doing with his phone call. How do you square the two?

FERGUSON: Well, I think the point that he is making here is that he believes that we do need to have a new day with the people of China, the government of China. They have been taking advantage of the relationship with the U.S. for far too long. Whether it be with currency manipulation, some of their aggressions they have had outside --

HARLOW: Hey, Ben, hold on. Ben, let me just stay with us. We'll going to get to this press conference now out of Oakland, California. We're expecting in a moment to hear from the Mayor Libby Schaaf. Let's listen in though to obviously one of the police authorities here.

OFFICER JOHNNA WATSON, OAKLAND PUBLIC INFORMATION OFFICER: -- Fire Department Chief Reed. Oakland Fire Department Deputy Chief Hoffman. Sergeant Ray Kelly who is to my left. He's with the Alameda County sheriff's office, coroner's bureau and we have other city not only leaders but services that are here on stage with us today from the city administrator, to the chief of police, to the Red Cross, to building division for the city of Oakland. We have a lot of new faces and our media guests today.

So, we would ask you if you could identify who you are and which media agency you are with when it comes to question time. Please allow us to provide you with information and then we will have a question time and expect questions from you. So, please allow us to facilitate it. At this time, I'm going to turn it over to Mayor Schaaf.

MAYOR LIBBY SCHAAF, OAKLAND: This morning terrible tragedy took place in a space, in a building that is permitted at a warehouse. Now, I've spent my morning doing what is our priority. And that is focusing on the families of their loved ones that are waiting to hear information and waiting for us to address this very complicated and devastating scene. I want to thank all of our first responders who are on the scene and have been working so hard and we are so thankful for the cooperation, particularly from Alameda County as well as our federal partners and not just responding to the scene but joining us in what is going to be a very thorough and methodical investigation.

So that we can discern what in fact happen. Now we are going to ask the public's patience as we do that. This is a devastating scene. This is complicated and it is going to take us time to do the methodical, thorough and professional investigation that these families deserve to find out what, in fact, happened as well as to focus humanely and compassionately on addressing the victims. And working to identify them and get that information first to their families.

[17:22:27] All right. I know that you're going to have a lot of questions. We're here with some initial information but we ask for you to respect that we will have additional information each day. And that we are going to be very respectful of the families that deserve to know first. And so we expect to continue to be in touch with you over the next few days about what the investigation unfolds and to continue to answer the questions that you bring to us. I do also want people to know that if they are interested in making contributions to support the victims' families, our own Oakland aides have set up a site and are matching up to $20,000 of donations at YouCare.com Oakland Fire Victims.

We thank the Oakland aides and we thank all of the very compassionate people of this city that want to wrap their arms around the family members who lost loved ones in this horrific fire last night. With that, I'm going to introduce our fire chief, Chief Teresa Deloach- Reed.

CHIEF TERESA DELOACH-REED, OAKLAND FIRE: Good afternoon. Last night December 2nd a third alarm was called at approximately 11:30 for 1315 31st Avenue. At this time we have identified nine fire fatalities. We are in the process of recovering and identifying those victims. We're also in the process of assessing to see if there are any other victims associated with this fire.

Right now I would like to turn it over to the incident commander, Deputy Chief Mark Hoffmann to give you more information in regards to the incident and the recovery effort.

DEPUTY CHIEF MARK HOFFMANN, OAKLAND FIRE DEPARTMENT: As mentioned, we last night found nine fatalities in the structure. Oakland Fire Department is currently working with Alameda County Sheriff's Department, the Oakland Police Department, the alcohol, tobacco and fire agents, Kelucia (ph), Alameda County Search and Rescue and the Red Cross to secure the scene and to continue recovery efforts and conduct the investigation into the cause of the deadly fire.

At this time, we are shoring up the building to make sure it's safe to enter and continue the recovery effort. As we previously reported, the roof of the building collapsed on to the second floor which also in many areas collapsed on to the first floor further complicating our ability to continue the recovery effort. We will bring information to you through the OPD PIO office as we have it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you, Deputy Chief. I would like to turn it over at this time to Sergeant Ray Kelly who is with the Alameda County Sheriff's Department Coroner's Bureau. He can update where they are right now regarding the search and the recovery. Sir.

SGT. RAY KELLY, ALAMEDA COUNTY, CALIFORNIA SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT: So we have begun the search. We have had to actually stop to shore up the building because when we went in there, we began to see some of the walls and some of the structure move. So we had to pull our people out. At this time we have only been able to recover one decedent from that scene. So, this is going to be a slow process for us. We are anticipating being out here for a minimum of the next 48 hours.

So we will be at this scene, the scene will remain active until it's entirely searched and gone through. In addition to that, we have our family assistance center that is up. It was put together on the spur of the moment. It's now functioning much more efficiently. And we're getting to talk with those families and get the information to them that they need. The Mayor has spent a lot of time with those families and we're doing everything we can. This is a very difficult situation not only for the community but for our first responders.

WATSON: Before we open it up for questions, our ask to the media is to please push our message out as far as you can. We have a lot of social media platforms exchanging and sharing information which we always encourage but we like to direct that information to the Alameda County Coroner's Bureau because they have a master list they're working with and we want to take that information and share it with them to ensure and notify families whether their loved one was or was not here. Looking at everything from distinguishing marks such as tattoos, piercings, maybe photos from families. Not all families are from this area. They're out of state and as indicated earlier, international as well.

[17:27:20] So please help us with helping the families and our community as we move through this investigation, as we find answers and as we heal as a community and help the families heal. At this time we'll certainly open it up for questions.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sergeant Kelly --

WATSON: Let's start right here. You sir, go ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How many exits are there in this building?

WATSON: I will certainly refer to the Fire Department, but sir, let me just preface this. There are a lot of questions that will be asked that we will not be able to share the information because the roof fell on to the second story as Sergeant Kelly indicated, the second story did collapse and into the first story in some portions. So, that could be very, very difficult but I certainly would ask the Fire Department. I don't know if we're prepared for that answer yet.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can we confirm --

WATSON: Can we hold on? Let me see if I can -- let me just see if I can answer this question about how many exits. Would you like to step up and say that, sir? Two exits, sir. Located at the building. You had a question.

(INAUDIBLE QUESTION)

WATSON: The Oakland Police Department is working with the city and also working with the Fire Department about future investigations. How many calls have been to this location whether it's been police or fire or the city? So all of those questions will come out. Right now we want to focus on the recovery. We want to focus on identifying any of the victims. We want to work with the families. That's a main focus.

But we will work towards those questions such as, was this building under investigation, was this building ever fined, what is the condition as far as permits, housing, all of those questions will be answered in due time. But right now we want to stay focused on the recovery and working with the families. Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two questions. First to Sergeant Kelly. You said one body has been recovered. Do we know if that necessarily is one of the nine people that you are aware of or could that have been like -- you know, someone in addition?

KELLY: Look, this is one of many bodies that we will be recovering. Okay. We had to stop operations because the building is so unsafe. And that makes our job very, very hard. But it's about decency and respect for our victims and doing this right, doing it right for the families. Doing it right for our staff so that they're safe in the there. So, that's what our priority is. And we don't care how long it takes. We will be here as long as it takes to get that job done.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My second question --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you resumed the operations?

[17:30::00] UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: My second question, I know you want us to focus on the victims right now and at the same time it's very simple to basically tell us whether this building was under investigation?

LIBBY SCHAAF, OAKLAND MAYOR: It's important that we share what we have with you.

I think Darin Ranelletti needs to come up and address that.

JOHNNA WATSON, SPOKESPERSON, OAKLAND SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT: We'll have him come up, SIR.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: I appreciate it. Thank you.

DARIN RANELLETTI, DIRECTOR, OAKLAND PLANNING AND BUILDING: Good afternoon. Darin Ranelletti, Oakland Planning and Building director.

At this time, we know the last designated use of the property was as a warehouse. We had received recent complaints about Blight and unpermitted construction at the property. We had opened an investigation and that is ongoing. And as we learn more, we will certainly release that information.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Any violations that we know of that you had determined already?

RANELLETTI: There was an inspection of the property and were able to confirm blight at the property and still investigating the allegations of unpermitted construction at the structure.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: When was the investigation opened?

SCHAAF: They want to know the date.

RANELLETTI: That opened on November 13th.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: As it stands, were people allowed to be in the warehouse?

RANELLETTI: The last permitted legal use was a warehouse. We have reports that people were living, but again, we're still trying to investigate and confirm whether there were actually people living in the structure.

SCHAAF: Hold on. Can you explain for people what blight means?

RANELLETTI: Sure.

There was a complaint that there was blight in t ad adjacent vacant lots owned by the same property owner, debris, garbage and trash. We able to confirm that those violations were accurate.

Regarding the illegal construction, that was for interior construction within the building itself.

(CROSSTALK)

WATSON: If we could hold on. Let's take one question at a time.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The building as has been explained is permitted as a warehouse, were people allowed to -- (INAUDIBLE)

RANELLETTI: Permits would be needed for people to live in the building and those permits had not been issued.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Have you had a chance to get inside the building yet? Have you had a chance to get inside the building as part of the investigation?

RANELLETTI: No. We had an inspector attempt to enter the building. At that time was not able to secure access to the building and so that investigation hadn't concluded and still under way.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE)

RANELLETTI: That was on November 17th.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: One more for clarification. You talked about people would not be under the current permits allowed to live there. (INAUDIBLE) -- have been allowed to be there under the currents permit?

RANELLETTI: At this time, we have gotten reports that there was a party at the premises last night and such a party would have required a special permit from the city and such a permit had not been issued.

UNIDENTIFIED REPROTER: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION)

WATSON: The question was have you had any conversations with the owner? Since the fire?

RANELLETTI: No.

SCHAAF: I personally have not.

I just want to remind you that this is the weekend. We are going off our actual records and so we don't have all the staff available to give you detailed answers to your question. We're trying to be as transparent as possible with you to confirm what we can, authentically confirm at this moment in time such a short amount of time after this incredible tragedy.

But we again remind you that our efforts right now are focused on the humane and compassionate addressing of the victims as well as securing the site as well as caring for those families. And so, that is what we are focused on right now. We will have additional answers to these types of questions in the coming days. We expect to have opportunities to brief you again.

WATSON: Let's go with Sergio.

Go ahead, Sergio.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: You met with families today, apparently, nine bodies that are there. Believed to be identified. Did you meet with more than nine families? How many other people are missing at this point? Do we have them lined up as to if they're here or not?

SCHAAF: I met with a roomful of people who had loved ones that are missing. And it is painful to tell them that it will be a considerable amount of time before we can give them the information and the closure they deserve. We are working very hard to comfort those families, to give them the type of support and information access that they deserve. But because of the devastating nature of this incident, we have been extremely limited in our ability to get access inside the structure as well as to perform the very careful work that must be done for us to absolutely be certain of an identification of a lost one. And that is what we are focused on doing. And that is what I had the horrible, tough job as the mayor to do this morning, to explain to those families, to those friends, to those loved ones.

[17:35:32] UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: How many people remain unaccounted for?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: On that master list, how many people still unaccounted?

SCHAAF: I think --

(CROSSTALK)

SCHAAF: Sergeant Kelly?

SGT. RAY KELLY, SPOKESMAN, ALAMEDA COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT: It's very uncertain. But there are a couple dozen or more people we still have to identify. To find out -- I know that everybody want as number and we don't know. We expect the number of deceased to go up. How far, I don't know. But we're expecting the worst, maybe a couple dozen victims here. We've met with a roomful of people and you know, they're holding on hope until they hear. Families hold out for hope until they hear that final word that their loved one is gone. The mayor said it best. So, there's two parts to this case, what's going on here now, the families, the sensitivity that we have to have toward the families and moving forward later on and dealing with all the questions that you're asking now about this dwelling.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: How many people were --

(CROSSTALK) WATSON: Hold on one second.

KELLY: There were a lot of people in this building. I don't have an answer as to how many victims there are at this point. We can only confirm nine based on what we have seen in the limited access we can get to the building.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: I'm talking about the survivors.

WATSON: Can we hold on?

Go ahead, ma'am.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The firefighters -- (INAUDIBLE)

RAY: That's a fire question.

WATSON: Can you speak up a little bit louder?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What kind of recovery are we looking at? Is it a challenge to the firefighters they're facing right now and how -- (INAUDIBLE)

MARK HOFFMANN, DEPUTY CHIEF, OAKLAND FIRE DEPARTMENT: So, whereas, the building structural engineer has determined the walls are secure, the internal floor space for the mezzanine is very unsecure. So, we basically have had to come in and shore with cribbings and with shores, which are long poles and four by fours, underneath the mezzanine area so it does not collapse on the workers below it and so we can work on the top with certainty. So, it's just tedious. We're in there with our structural engineer, with our technical rescue team and we making it a secure building. And that's why we pulled out, as we said, after the one recovery. It was too lively. So, we backed out for a minute. We're making it secure and we ought to be going back in momentarily.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE)

HOFFMANN: I saw no evidence of sprinklers.

WATSON: Sir, you have not asked a question.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Can you confirm or discuss any individuals on the missing list are minors?

KELLY: I have not seen the list. Right now, that type of information is very confidential because we still have to notify families. It's more important for us to notify families, to have them know all this information before we go public with it. So, the respect and decency we have to have for people and loved ones.

We know we have victims here who have families outside of the bay area, outside of the state, and possibly outside of our country. We have a lot of people that we need to reach out to. That is going to be timely. Identification of people is going to be very, very difficult. People will not have identification and answers for up to 48 hours. It could take us days to identify people based on the level of remains that we have.

Hold on one moment please.

Go ahead, ma'am.

(INAUDIBLE)

WATSON: I'm not getting into all that.

Go ahead, ma'am.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What was on the ground floor --

KELLY: I don't know.

WATSON: So they want to know what was on the ground floor? Too difficult to describe or can you describe?

HOFFMANN: This was an artist collective so the whole building was divided up into small areas that were basically work areas for artists. So, it ranged from people doing woodworking to people doing sculpting to people doing kinetic art. So, it is just a labyrinth of little areas. I can't speak to the second floor. That was where the party was taking place. But the evidence is it had a lot of fire load there, too. I don't know how it was configured. But the ground floor, when we did our interior tack, we went in about 20 yards with handlines trying -- we knew people were in there and we were trying to get them out. It was a labyrinth.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Can you say whether or not the -- (INAUDIBLE)

HOFFMANN: (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: One more question, a point of clarity on the code situation. It was permitted a warehouse. Only it was not permitted as residences. No permit taken for a party. Would any sort of artist work be allowed in there?

[17:40:16] RANELLETTI: It depends on the extent of the work in the building and that's what we're still trying to ascertain is to what level of work in there was unpermitted and would have needed permits.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: As far as you know, there were no permits taken for any of the interior construction that you know of?

RANELLETTI: That's correct.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: OK.

(CROSSTALK)

WATSON: Sir, excuse me one moment. I'd like to bring this back and focus on the fire and focus on recovery, focus on information for victims.

So, I'm going to take two more questions that are related to that. We will prepare an additional press conference with more information at a later time to discuss more about permitting, building structure, et cetera.

We'll take two more questions.

You sir.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Can you tell us about the stairwell to get to the second floor -- (INAUDIBLE)

HOFFMANN: There was a single staircase accessing the mezzanine. It was apparently constructed out of wood and was on fire when the crews entered. And burnt away, to the fact that it was not viable to obtain the second floor.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Do you guys have any assessment -- (INAUDIBLE)

WATSON: Go ahead sir. (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Trying to get a picture of what it was like when the fire started, how many people in the building? (INAUDIBLE) people survived?

HOFFMANN: We have got a wide range of numbers. The count has been across the board. So, I don't have a hard number on how many people were in the event. Have no guesstimate. The only numbers we were given were how many people they knew were there. And so, that was a much smaller number than how many other guests that, you know, maybe people they know who they were. There are survivors. Once again, I'm aware about a dozen. But there were other people who definitely got out and just ran away. And at least one showed up to a hospital and sought treatment.

WATSON: Mayor, would you like to close -- any closing remarks?

SCHAAF: Again, we have to bring this to a close right now. We have really critical work to do. The people standing behind me need to be working with the crews, supervising the incredible difficult work in front of us right now.

We will continue to keep you updated. You can submit your questions ahead of time so that we can come back at the next conference prepared to answer your questions.

But we have got to get back to securing this structure, to compassionately addressing the remains of victims that still are in the building, and also bringing comfort and information to the families.

So, we thank you, and we will be back with you again. Thank you.

HARLOW: There you have it. Officials in Oakland, California tonight giving us more details on what has become an absolute tragedy there. A massive blaze claiming multiple lives. The headlines here, officials saying we expect the number of deceased to go up, perhaps, a whole dozen victims. At this hour, they just do not know how many people perished in this fire. They know at least nine people died but do not know how many more may have been killed.

Dan Simon is on the phone with me as well. He's there.

Dan, a few things that stood out to me. A, the fire chief said in that press conference he did not see any evidence of sprinklers because obviously this was not permitted as a residential building. It was a warehouse. And he said in order to have had that party there, they would have need special permits, but no permits were filed with the city. What else stands out to you?

SIMON (voice-over): Poppy, that's right. There were no permits for having this party or no permits for people to live there and we don't know if there were permits for people to work there either. They simply had a permit for a warehouse, is the way I heard the building inspector describe things.

What stood out to me, Poppy, is you also have the very human and raw emotion that we have right now.

HARLOW: Yeah.

SIMON: You have 25 people who are missing and they -- a lot of those families met with the mayor. You can see the mayor seemed quite distraught over having to deal with those people and she can't give them answers. And some people are holding out hope that their loved ones may be alive.

The other thing that stood out for me is that only one body thus far has been removed. We had reason to believe that crews were making progress because they did get into the building at one point, but then they determined that the building is still structurally unsound. So, they're trying to shore up the structure so they can get in and have a greater look and remove more bodies -- Poppy?

[17:45:10] HARLOW: Absolutely. You could hear the pain in the voices of the mayor and fire chief and all the officials trying to deal with the unspeakable tragedy there. Perhaps dozens and dozens of people dead, perhaps up to 40. They just don't know at this hour.

Dan, thank you very much. Our thoughts and prayers to the families of Oakland.

Tonight, we are on the east coast following news of a massive fire in Massachusetts right now. Firefighters dealing with this enormous blaze in the center of Cambridge. Live pictures. According to local news reports, the fire started about two and a half hours ago, engulfing several buildings and cars. No confirmation on whether anyone is hurt. We'll keep you posted on that.

We will be right back.

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[17:49:40] HARLOW: Call it President Obama's pre-inauguration gift to President-elect Trump, a nine-year low for the country's unemployment rate. News yesterday, unemployment is now 4.6 percent, the lowest since 2007, 187,000 jobs created last month.

It's a snapshot of the economy that Trump is inheriting when he takes office. The issue of jobs a big one for the president-elect this week, celebrating a deal to save roughly 800 jobs at a Carrier plant in Indianapolis. Those were jobs slated to move to Mexico next year. In return, Carrier gets $7 million in tax breaks.

Senator Bernie Sanders slammed the deal in a "Washington Post" opinion piece declaring Carrier had taken Trump hostage and won. Concerned, of course, about the precedent set here. Also, that he'd signaled to every corporation in America that they can threaten offshore jobs in exchange for business-friendly tax benefits and incentives.

And in a letter to Donald Trump this week, Democratic Senator joe Donnelly, of Indiana, wrote, "While this is welcome news, there are also a number of other Hoosier companies planning to move jobs offshore." He continues, "Until we update our federal policies to better prevent offshoring, I strongly encourage to you make it clear that efforts to ship jobs offshore to chase cheap wages will be addressed head-on by the Trump administration."

The Senator from Indiana joins me now.

Thank you for being with me.

SEN. JOE DONNELLY, (D), INDIANA: Thank you very much.

And I want to offer my thoughts and prayers and the thoughts and prayers of all Hoosiers to our brothers and sisters in Oakland right now. It's a horrible tragedy.

HARLOW: It is a horrible tragedy. We'll keep updating our viewers on that fire throughout the evening.

Getting to this deal for your state, the headline is great for these workers and it is. You can't argue about saving jobs. When you dig into jobs being shipped to Mexico, that's .2 percent. A mile away down the road, there's another plant that is closing and jobs that will be lost. Do you believe the Trump administration will make these deals with every company in your state planning to move to Mexico?

DONNELLY: Well, here's who I hope, that they work with me and others to help promote those kinds of things. I've been promoting tying federal contracts to making sure that jobs stay in the United States. That offshoring jobs at the same time that you're seeking federal contracts, there's a penalty in there. You get promoted for good quality, for delivery on time. If you're offshoring jobs, there's a penalty. There are tax provisions for moving offshores.

HARLOW: So you don't want the Trump administration essentially picking winners and losers. You want this across the board?

DONNELLY: Well, I think we can do this for a number of companies because, as you said, just a mile down the road is sending 300 jobs to Mexico and welcome Donald Trump's help in trying to make sure that when these the best place to be is in the United States with the best workers in the world.

HARLOW: What do you say, for example, to the criticism launched this week by the "Wall Street Journal" argued, look, overall, this move isn't great for America. It's not great for American competitiveness or our American workers in total because they say this was a move that Carrier was making for cheaper labor to make them a more competitive company on the global market.

DONNELLY: Well, they couldn't have been more competitive. The profit margins were up, the company was extraordinarily successful, highest quality at this plant. Ere. They were just chasing $3 an hour wages is what was going on. And so, I say to "the Wall Street Journal," American workers are entitled to a decent living as well. That's the heart of the American promise, that if you work hard, you do a good job, you make sur, that your company is doing well, then in return a decent salary and taking care of your family is not a bad thing for America.

HARLOW: Let's take a listen to what Congressman Dave Brad, of Virginia, said about this topic when asked about it yesterday on CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. DAVE BRAD, (R), VIRGINA: In general, I prefer free markets. I'm pretty clear on that. You can't do that for everybody. So, you are picking winners and losers. And you can't go down that road in the long run.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Republican congressman warning, look, you can't pick winners and losers and go down this road in the long run. What do you think prevents every CEO from threatening to move jobs to Mexico, demanding payment and a sweeter deal?

DONNELLY: Carrier turned down that money months ago. The reason they came now, they said our federal contracts may be in danger. There may be a tariff here and it makes economic sense to stay in America right now. And so, what we want to do is make sure we have policies in place that favor our workers.

(CROSSTAKL)

HARLOW: I understand that. But what prevents --

DONNELLY: When workers do well, our companies do well.

HARLOW: I hear that. But what prevents CEOs of all of these other companies from threatening to do the same thing because they can get a deal?

[17:55:00] DONNELLY: Well, look, it wasn't the money first that got Carrier to do this. If you have strong federal policies in place that if you go overseas, if you ship your jobs elsewhere, Mr. Trump talked about a tariff to bring those products back in. I'm talking about making sure that if you want federal contracts, you stand up for our workers. When you stay within American workers, it makes the most economic sense. It isn't picking winners or losers. It's making sure that we have something for our workers as well.

HARLOW: Trump supporter and former Alaskan governor, Sarah Palin, wrote this in a column yesterday, a "Young conservatives column, "When government steps in arbitrarily favoring one business over others, it sets inconsistent, unfair, illogical precedent. Republicans oppose this, remember? Instead, we support competition on a level playing field. Remember? We know special-interest crony capitalism is one big fail."

Obviously, you're from different parties. You may not be on the same page with her on that, but do you agree that this is getting in the way of letting free markets work?

DONNELLY: I sure do. You know, I'd like Sarah Palin to come with me and introduce me to the families that still have a job and are able to put a roof over the head of their kids. This is simply deterring, instead of having this job at $3 an hour in Mexico, it's here in the United States helping an American family. I think that's a good thing.

HARLOW: Yeah. I think we all think that it is a phenomenal thing that these workers are keeping their jobs, especially right before Christmas when they thought they were losing them.

Bigger picture, what do we see going forward? I know you have a lot of on solutions on your website that we talked about.

Senator, thank you for joining me.

Thank you.

Again, our prayers are with the families in Oakland.

HARLOW: Senator, thank you so much.

I'm Poppy Harlow, in New York. I'll see you back here at 7:00.

"SMERCONISH" begins right now.

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