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AT THIS HOUR WITH BERMAN AND MICHAELA

Suspect Dead at Ohio State University; Confirmed: Knife Used in Ohio State University Attack; Trump Meeting to Fill Cabinet Amid Possible Vote Recount, Internal Squabbling. Aired 11:30-12p ET

Aired November 28, 2016 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[11:30:00] WYATT CROSHER, WITNESS & STUDENT, OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY (voice-over): Then we believe we heard the gunshots before the alert came. We can't confirm that but we believe we heard it.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: As you have been looking outside your window, what can you see? Can you see Watts Hall? Can you see the parking garage?

CROSHER: Watts Hall from my dorm but I can't -- like there's a smaller dorm in front of it. I can see the cop cars surrounding Watts Hall but I can't see directly what's going on with the building. But I cannot see the parking garage from here.

BOLDUAN: Got you. Have you noticed anything different as, obviously, you have been locked down in place watching all of this all morning, when you initially thought you heard gunshots. Have you noticed a change in kind of the posture or in the window from what you can see? have you noticed a difference in the over an hour now that this has all been happening?

CROSHER: From what I can see, they seem pretty still. They seem to be just stuck around Watts Hall. There seem to be a lot of police and ambulances just waiting outside of Watts Hall. That's just from what I can see, though. I can't see the entire area.

BOLDUAN: OK. Wyatt, thank you so much for sticking around to talk with me on the phone. I really appreciate it.

We will get a quick break. We have more information coming in. The breaking news, a shooter on Ohio State University campus. At least eight people injured, transported to hospitals, one critically. And importantly, local media are reporting right now that one suspect has been killed. A lot more information still unknown. We're continuing to follow breaking developments.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:36:01] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BOLDUAN: We're continuing to follow breaking news out of the Ohio State University campus in Columbus, Ohio. Reports of an active shooter on campus. A shelter-in-place order has been in place for over an hour now, since before, just before 10:00 a.m. But this just now coming out from the Ohio State emergency management -- Ohio State University Emergency Management Twitter account. Let me read it to you. "Shelter-in-place lifted. Scene is now secure. All classes are canceled on Columbus campus for the remainder of the day. The area around 19th and College Avenue is closed." And there's also a link to a list of buildings that are also closed because of the ongoing situation here.

So, that is the very latest. it just came in that the shelter- in-place has now been lifted for all of those on campus.

Let me go to Deb Feyerick for more information on what we know.

Deb, what's the latest that you are hearing?

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, what we are hearing is that federal law enforcement officials who has been briefed on this ongoing investigation that one suspect -- that there was only one suspect and that that one suspect is dead. Federal law enforcement telling our producer that, in fact, the one suspect does appear to be dead. The same official saying the threat now appears to be contained, though there is still an ongoing sweep. We are told, as you just read, according to the OSU police, that the scene is now secure and the shelter-in-place has been lifted, which means the majority of law enforcement activity with respect to looking for additional suspects, that seems to be over.

The count right now, eight people being treated. Initially, one was listed as being in critical condition. We are now told that the injuries themselves are non-life threatening.

But again, the key here according to our point is that one suspect is dead and it appears that that one suspect was acting at least for now alone. Clearly there will be a huge investigation to see in fact who he is or who she is and what may have happened to trigger this -- Kate?

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. So, this is very important breaking news update for everyone. The one suspect, they believe only one suspect involved, Deb, is killed. They do believe the suspect is dead and they do believe it's only one suspect involved. Do they know, do you have any information yet, Deb -- I know ATF is on the ground. Do they know, do they have a firearm in possession? Do they have the weapon?

FEYERICK: No. They don't right now. They don't right now. So, we are looking, in fact, to determine exactly what that is. There are some reports that potentially he may have had a knife. But, again, all of this right now is under investigation. We are also not being told specifically what the nature of the wounds are, simply that they are non-life threatening, which is actually very good. Clearly, if this had been a situation with some sort of high-powered assault rifle or assault rifle, I should say, it would have been a very different outcome. Again, all that under investigation.

BOLDUAN: Deb Feyerick bringing us the breaking news. Thank you so much. Continuing to work her sources. Thank you. Also of course, to our producer for bringing us that breaking

news.

Let me go to Tom Fuentes, former assistant director of the FBI. He's on the phone with me. He's been following all of this.

So, we do have this information now, Tom, the federal law enforcement official believing that there was one suspect involved in the attack. That suspect now is dead. What does that -- they also, though, stress this is early in the investigation, though, and the sweep continues. What does that tell you?

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCFEMENT ANALYST (voice-over): It tells me that when we heard that the individuals were transported to the hospital, many of them not having life-threatening injuries, that means they would have been in a position hopefully to see what happened, to see who was either shooting or stabbing people, and provide lot of information to the police as they were being transported to the hospital and at the hospital itself, so police would have received a great deal of information. And may have been told that, the best anyone knew, it was only one person doing the attacking.

We do have all the reports of many people hearing gunshots, so whether we have gunshots as well as stabbing victims is yet to be announced. But the police would have a pretty good idea if the scene is contained.

And we mentioned earlier, a long time ago, as soon as they put that yellow "do not cross this line" tape around the perimeter, that indicated the police knew they got a contained scene, even if not a resolved one, at least they probably did not have a shooter at large on the campus or in the city of Columbus.

[11:40:50] Tom, stick with me one second. Control room is telling me I think we have some live witness interview. Let's listen in.

UNIDENTIFIED OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY STUDENT: Not a lot of information getting through to us. But definitely scary.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Just came off a big weekend for Ohio State. What is this like now on Monday morning to be going through this?

UNIDENTIFIED OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY STUDENT: Sobering. You know, you don't expect this type of stuff on a Monday morning off a break. Just kind of reminding everyone that stuff like this does happen and that people, just stay safe and look out for each other.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: I'm sure you never imagined it to happen here but what were emotions like of your friends? Did you talk to any family when you were locked down?

UNIDENTIFIED OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY STUDENT: Yeah. No, it was a lot of people trying to check in, making sure everyone was safe. Thank god it seems like most of my friends are ok. Hopefully everyone that was transported is ok as well. There's a lot of people trying everyone is all right.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Where do you go from here? We heard that classes are canceled today. Have you talked with any of your friends? What you're going to do today?

UNIDENTIFIED OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY STUDENT: Yeah. I'm just going to go home, try to still keep checking in with everybody. I'm sure there's going to be a call to the parents later. I don't really know what to do.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Well, thanks very much for speaking with us.

Doug is just one of hundreds of students getting let out of these buildings now after being --

BOLDUAN: We were just listening in to an interview obviously with one of the students on campus as we are following the breaking news here.

Lot of moving parts. We just found out that from Ohio State University the shelter-in-place has now been lifted. All classes are canceled for the day. Importantly, coming from CNN sources, federal law enforcement source says they believe there was one suspect involved in this attack and that suspects dead.

We also just got in my e-mail an update coming from the hospitals who are treating these eight patients that we do know were transported. Local fire department saying they were transported to area hospitals. Initially, those reports of one suffering from critical injuries but let me go through what we are now learning on these injuries. Two patients were being treated at grant medical hospital, all those with non-life threatening injuries. Two other patients were being treated at Riverside Hospital, again, with non- life threatening injuries. Then there are four patients being treated at Ohio State University's Wexner Medical Center. According to the Medic Center, treating four victims, none with life-threatening injuries. So, it does appear there is an update here or at least maybe at the moment, some conflicting information if there is -- if there is anyone in critical condition who was transported following this attack. We are hearing it looks like eight being treated with non-life threatening injuries. We did hear from the fire department earlier that one person was suffering from critical injuries. We are continuing to look at that.

Let me bring back in Art Roderick, CNN law enforcement analyst, former assistant director of U.S. Marshall Service.

Art, a lot has happened in the hours we have been watching this. You now know the suspect, they believe, has been killed and there's only one attacker.

The language, Art, is interesting. As Deb Feyerick was pointing out, there hasn't been a weapon that's yet been recovered. There have been some reports that maybe it was not a gun, maybe it was some kind of a knife. What are you hearing? What's your sense here? ART RODERICK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANAYST: Well, you know,

obviously, the situation seems to be winding down and now they are looking at crime scene issues and containing crime scene.

The key here is motive. Why, why did this individual do this. Is this a domestic situation, with eight people possibly being wounded? I don't think that's the scenario. So, we have to look at maybe somebody who is mentally unstable that just picked individuals out of a crowd and started either shooting or stabbing them. Motive is going to be the key at this particular point.

I think when we hear that there's no weapon found yet or they haven't confirmed that there's a weapon found but we have several or a couple of at least witnesses that have said that they did hear some shooting, and there was possibly an individual that's been critically injured. So, I think we are still in the very early stages of finding out what the motive is which is obviously going to be the key, as to how they are going to wrap this whole situation up.

[11:45:11] BOLDUAN: Yeah. There clearly are. And we always have to -- there clearly are some conflicting reports on exactly what is going on.

But some things are becoming more clear. We do know according to law enforcement source they believe there was one suspect involved in the attack and that suspect is dead. According to Ohio State University, the shelter-in-place is now lifted. All classes are canceled. But law enforcement source stressing that they are still very early as, Art, you pointed out, it could take hours and hours to really clear this up, stressed this is early in the investigation. The sweep continues. They are working through this investigation which is clearly now a very big crime scene.

We will get another break in. We are continuing to follow breaking news out of Ohio State University in Columbus.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:50:19] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BOLDUAN: We're following more breaking news coming out of Columbus, Ohio, at Ohio State University. An attacker on campus this morning. A shelter-in-place ordered by the campus. We have heard that eight people were transported to local hospitals suffering injuries. We do -- have been told by a law enforcement source that the attacker, they believe, is one attacker. They believe the attacker is dead.

But we have much more information coming in right now.

For that, over to Deb Feyerick.

Deb, what do you have?

FEYERICK: Kate, we're learning now from producers that a federal law enforcement official saying it appears the suspect used a knife in this attack. That, according to federal law enforcement sources. The official saying gunshots may have been from a police officer who responded and who was able to take down the gunman.

Now, we also have a report, from a 20-year-old Ohio State University student, that he saw a man pull a knife just outside the co-fault lab. The suspect starting chasing people, and according to the witness, he said the attacker had a crazy look in his eye. After everyone scattered, the students that were around him, that the officer fired, according to the witness, at least three times, taking down this suspect. It's those three shots resonated throughout that area of the campus, leading everyone to believe there was an active shooting situation.

In fact, it appears it may have been one individual with a large knife who went on some sort of a rampage on the campus right outside that lab. The shelter-in-place has been lifted. And so, putting together exactly what happened -- Kate?

BOLDUAN: Yep. An investigation, now a crime scene, now underway.

Deb Feyerick, important update. Deb, thank you very much.

And our thanks to the producer who brought us a lot of that breaking news. We'll continue to keep an eye on Columbus.

We also have news in the presidential transition we want to bring to you AT THIS HOUR. Donald Trump today meeting with at least eight people as he continues to work to fill his cabinet posts.

Phil Mattingly -- let's go to Phil outside Trump Tower with an update.

A lot going on, Phil, meetings, facing a recount, and possibly internal squabbling from Trump Tower that became very public over the weekend. Where do you want to begin?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Let's talk about the last part first because it's the most interesting. You can connect it to potential selections, potential cabinet picks going on here. The reality is this, Kellyanne Conway, the president-elect's campaign manager throughout the course of the best parts of his campaign, including the part where he won, has become very public in criticism of the possibility of 2012 Republican nominee, Mitt Romney, being selected at secretary of state. Her reasons are pretty clear. He was extraordinarily critical of Donald Trump and the Trump campaign throughout the primary process and general election process. And there is a sense there should be a loyalty test of some sort, particularly for somebody so vociferous in criticism throughout the campaign.

Here's the thing, Kate, and this is important to note. We're noted to seeing this. These types of issues, transition process, cabinet selections, all happens behind the scenes, we're working phones, texting, e-mail people constantly to get any insight what might be happening internally. We're seeing it publicly now. And Kellyanne Conway makes a good point talking about this. She says, look, I'm telling the president-elect the same thing behind the scenes I'm saying publicly but need to get across the point this criticism, this opposition to a potential Romney selection is so public and it's coming from so many different areas of Trump supporters that she needs to talk about it publicly. What's happening behind the scenes, at least, as far as I'm told, our colleague, Dana Bash, our college, Sara Murray, was told is this, there is frustration within the president- elect the most senior advisers that this is becoming public, because he's still making a decision. If you want to know how the process is going, a new name was added today. David Petraeus will be making an appearance at Trump Tower this afternoon. Tomorrow, Mitt Romney and Senator Bob Corker. All are considered in running for the secretary of state position, as is Rudy Giuliani, a close adviser to the Trump campaign, who was once considered a front-runner, has been openly lobbying for the position.

All of that being said, Kate, no decision has been made. Trump advisers say, look, going through this entire process as he always said he would. It's just a little odd and strange at least to see this dynamic playing out in public -- Kate?

BOLDUAN: Strange to say the very least.

Phil, great to see you. Thank you so much. Phil Mattingly has that for us.

And let me bring in now CNN senior Washington correspondent, Jeff Zeleny; and CNN chief political correspondent, Dana Bash.

Jeff, I want to get to what's going on, the strange thing that's going on with Kellyanne Conway, and with you, Dana, in a second.

Jeff, the other thing Donald Trump is facing now is a possible recount in Wisconsin. Possibly facing recounts in two other states as well. They met in Wisconsin today to talk about what was going on with that recount. What do we know about this?

[11:55:29] JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Indeed, they did, Kate. Within the hour, the Wisconsin commissioner of elections held a meeting. The recount will go forward starting Thursday if Jill Stein, the Green Party candidate, agrees to pay for this. She has until tomorrow, close of business, around 4:00, to pay for the recount that will go forward. But this commissioner of elections in Wisconsin, the board, has said this would not be a hand recount. That is something Jill Stein requested. It is up to each county election official if they would like to hand recount. But there are 72 counties in Wisconsin. Some may recount by hand, some may re-tabulate the optical scanning ballots or other things. The Stein camp can sue today so this is all proceeding forward.

We should point out, there's no suggestion by either side that this would change the outcome of the election in Wisconsin or other places. Donald Trump won by some 22,000 votes in Wisconsin, but if she pays the bill, tomorrow, the recount could start at early as Thursday. BOLDUAN: Especially with that in mind, Dana, your take on this?

It's not going to change the outcome. No one is suggesting that. Why, then, does this bother Donald Trump so much? I mean, he, over the weekend, tweeted more about this issue, this recount, and then taking it a step further, saying he would have actually won the popular vote had it not been for millions of illegal votes cast.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRSPONDENT: Right.

BOLDUAN: Tweeted more about this than anything, any one issue since he won the election?

BASH: No question. First of all, just on that one particular tweet saying that the illegal votes were cast, there's no evidence that is true. We should say that, point blank. And despite the fact he tweeted that. It's just -- something that he is supposing. Maybe he read it somewhere, maybe he got a tweet about it. We're not sure.

But the answer to your bigger question, which is the most important one, is, why is this bothering him so much? You know, it's unclear. I think I would say, just as somebody who's cover him now for a year and a half, that there's nothing more important than the fact that he wins, and won, and did win with the Electoral College, in a big way, and the fact that he did not do so with the popular vote, and the fact that, you know, Democrats are reminding him of that, and the it's something that probably stings.

Not to mention the fact that he really did get a lot of guff after the last debate when he refused to say he would accept the results, no matter what. And you know, he does have a point there, in that, same as -- he expects the same to be true, not that he I not -- now that he is the winner and Democrats are looking at irregularities in Wisconsin or anywhere else.

BOLDUAN: Dana, another source of discomfort for Donald Trump or Trump Tower today. Kellyanne Conway, speaking out yesterday, speaking to you on "State of the Union" about -- she made no secret. Does not like Mitt Romney. Does not think Mitt Romney should be the pick for Donald Trump's secretary of state. That is fine and well. And normally conversations and advice and opinions kept quiet, but as Phil Mattingly talked about, unbelievably strange and unusual that it's playing out in public like this, as she said to you.

BASH: Unbelievably unusual. She made it very clear in public, as you said, excruciatingly so, she does not think Romney was loyal. He gave only a couple speeches during the campaign, both used to blast Donald Trump as unfit for the presidency. And so now she feels that it is her responsibility to not just say so to the president-elect in private but to do so as she did with me yesterday in public.

Now, I was told by a source who has spoken to Donald Trump frequently that the president-elect was irritated -- that was the word this source used -- with the fact Kellyanne Conway took that, her feelings about Mitt Romney, criticism of Mitt Romney, public.

However, I just in the past hour, I spoke to Kellyanne Conway who said that that is not true. That she has spoken to Trump several times yesterday and today, and he was not irritated and he understands her concern about Romney comes from a place of loyalty to him.

BOLDUAN: I think this is not the end of that story, to say the very least.

BASH: No.

BOLDUAN: Guys, thank you very, very much, for sticking around.

Thank you for joining me AT THIS HOUR. A lot of breaking news we've been watching and all that breaking news with continue now with NEWSROOM with Brianna Keilar. It starts right now.

[12:00:12] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news. \