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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Trump, Clinton Holding Dueling NC Rallies; Clinton On KKK Newspaper's Support Of Trump; McMullin Vows To "Block" Clinton, Trump; Polls Of Polls: Dead Heat Race In Florida; Pres. Obama, Trump Campaign In Jacksonville, Florida. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired November 3, 2016 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:02:04] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening. Just after 9:00 p.m. here in Washington, D.C., crunch time in a state that neither presidential candidate can take for granted and each would love to win.
For Hillary Clinton, North Carolina would be icing on a Tar Heel blue cake. For Donald Trump, it could open a new path to victory, which is why they are both there tonight, along with CNN's Phil Mattingly and Jim Acosta. Jim, first, with the Trump campaign.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It's the election surprise nobody saw coming, Donald Trump sticking to the script.
DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Good job by the FBI.
ACOSTA: Gaining in some key battleground polls across the country, the GOP nominee is showing in un Trump-like message discipline, consistently hammering Hillary Clinton's e-mail mess as well as revelations about her Campaign Manager, John Podesta, unearthed by WikiLeaks.
TRUMP: She should look at him and say, Podesta, you're fired. But she can't do that. She probably needs him as a witness in the criminal case.
ACOSTA: He's even offering a restrained response to President Obama, who is pounding Trump every chance he gets.
TRUMP: Why isn't he back in the office, sometimes referred to as the Oval Office?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Donald Trump will turn Washington upside down, day one.
ACOSTA: The Trump campaign is staying on point in the ad wars, buying expensive spots during the World Series and unveiling the stinging new attack on Clinton's ties to disgraced ex-congressman, Anthony Weiner, whose alleged sexting to a 15 year old girl sparked the latest FBI inquiry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hillary Clinton is under FBI investigation again after her e-mails were found on pervert Anthony Weiner's laptop. Think about that.
IVANKA TRUMP, DONALD TRUMP'S DAUGHTER: It's not a women's problem, it's a family problem.
ACOSTA: To improve Trump's standing among women, the campaign dispatched daughter, Ivanka to New Hampshire, and Trump's media-shy, wife, Melania, to Pennsylvania.
MELANIA TRUMP, DONALD TRUMP'S WIFE: We need to teach our youth American values, kindness, honesty, respect, compassion, charity, understanding, cooperation.
ACOSTA: But not all of Trump's surrogates appear fully on board. Considered Trump's old folk Ted Cruz, who campaigned with the party's vice presidential candidate, Mike Pence in Iowa, but neglected to mention the man at the top of the ticket.
SEN. TED CRUZ, (R) TEXAS: He is someone who today, I call my friend, and I very much look forward to calling him Mr. vice president.
ACOSTA: An oversight, Cruz quickly corrected.
CRUZ: I'll make a point I'm getting ready to get on a gigantic airplane that has Donald Trump's name painted on the side of it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Jim, what was Trump's message tonight in North Carolina, and was he still very much on-message?
ACOSTA: Yeah, Anderson, he was on-message. He was focusing on military issues in this speech, the national security, foreign policy spectrum of issues.
That is very important in the State of North Carolina, so no surprise that he hit on that. He had some Medal of Honor recipients on stage with him tonight.
[21:05:08] And at one point, he was suggesting that, perhaps, those distinguished military veterans would not be comfortable having Hillary Clinton as their commander in chief because of the investigation she's under right now.
But he also talked about the bravery of those veterans and sort of had an odd moment. Here's what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: There are so much more brave than me. I wouldn't have done what they did. I'm brave in other ways. I'm brave -- I'm financially brave. Big deal, right. These are real brave. You know, when I look at these great admirals and these great generals and these great Medal of Honor recipients behind me, to think of her being their boss? I don't think so. And, you know, they're incredible patriots, they would never say a thing, but I know what they're thinking. It's not -- it's not for them, believe me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: And Anderson, we'll have to see over these next few days whether or not Donald Trump can continue to show this un-Trump-like message discipline. His campaign staff is loading up his schedule on these final days before Tuesday. He's got roughly seven events on his schedule. But we're expecting that to perhaps double over this weekend. Anderson?
COOPER: All right. Jim Acosta, busy couple of days.
Now, the Clinton campaign, she's speaking out in Raleigh. CNN's Phil Mattingly has that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It is great to be here.
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN NEW YORK CORRESPONDENT: It's the 53,000 square- mile road block to Donald Trump's White House dreams.
SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN, (D) MASSACHUSETTS: Thank you North Carolina! Wow!
MATTINGLY: Hillary Clinton and her top surrogates flooding North Carolina, a state that could effectively clinch the race on November 8th. But it's far from a sure thing. A purple state for the Democrats in 2008, be back to the Republicans in 2012 remains exceedingly close. The latest CNN poll of polls in the Tar Heel state puts Clinton ahead by just four points.
CLINTON: This morning in Florida, Donald stood on a stage and said, and I quote, "I'm honored to have the greatest temperament that anyone's ever had." Now, he knows we can see and hear him, right?
MATTINGLY: For Clinton and her campaign, as polls tighten, it's a moment to focus on the clearest path to victory, and shift the race back into a referendum on Trump.
CLINTON: At another rally yesterday, actually said out loud to himself, stay on point Donald, stay on point. His campaign probably put that in the teleprompters.
MATTINGLY: A message magnified by the campaign's latest T.V. ad, which features what advisers maintain has been one of their most effective weapons, Trump in his own words.
TRUMP: I'd look her right in that fat, ugly face of hers.
He's a war hero because he was captured.
MATTINGLY: This all coming as Clinton maintains a four-point lead nationally in the latest CNN poll of polls, an advantage, but one that is been unquestionably shrinking, something underscoring the Clinton campaign's increasingly targeted efforts to turn the Obama coalition into the Clinton coalition. To help make it happen, President Obama making his case for Clinton today in Florida.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES: She doesn't whine or complain or blame others or suggest every thing's rigged when things going her way. She just works harder, she just comes back better.
MATTINGLY: Joining Clinton on the trail tonight in North Carolina, Bernie Sanders and musician Pharrell Williams, a clear play for two crucial elements of the Clinton victory. Millennials and the African- American vote.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: So you mentioned in your piece that the president was certainly fired up today, strongly appealing to North Carolina voters.
MATTINGLY: Yeah, that's exactly right. Look, Anderson, it's no secret how the president feels, tuned outlined how he's been going to hammering Donald Trump every chance he gets. But what we've seen really over the course of the last couple of days in North Carolina, in Florida, is a president who is increasingly urgent, increasingly pointed in his attacks, and basically laying out the stakes. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: If you disrespected women before you were in office, you will disrespect women as president. If you accept the support of clan sympathizers before you are president, you will accept their support after you're president. If you disrespect the constitution before you're president, and threaten to shut down the press when it says something you don't like, or threaten to throw your opponent in jail in a live presidential debate without any regard for due process, if you discriminate against people of different faiths before you are president, then that is what you will do in office. Except you will have more power to carry out the twisted notions that you had before you were in office!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:10:20] MATTINGLY: And Anderson, we've been talking all day about the importance of the state of North Carolina. No Democrat has turned out voters in this state like President Obama, even though he lost in 2012. That's exactly why he will be back here again tomorrow. The Clinton campaign sees him as a major weapon trying to close out this very important state. Anderson?
COOPER: All right, Phil Mattingly. Phil, thanks very much. New early voting data is yet another reason why both candidates have been wrecking up so much Tar Heel time. Democrats are running about a quarter million voters ahead of the GOP there. Not as good as four years ago, but close to elsewhere, good news for the Trump side, Republicans building they are lead in Ohio, keeping a slight edge in Florida. Right now the North Carolina clearly a top battleground state.
CNN's John King is back this hour to lay it all out "By The Numbers". So there are those who say that we should watch North Carolina and North Carolina alone. Why?
JOHN KING, CNN INSIDE POLITICS ANCHOR: The Democrats think and the Republicans don't argue it's a checkmate state. If Hillary Clinton can win, it essentially blocks Donald Trump's math. Anderson let's go through some of the math. This is where we have the race right now. Clinton at 272, Trump at 179. Republicans will argue this a bit. But let me just for the sake of this hypothetical say that Hillary Clinton pulls out Nevada with the early voting with Latino.
Now, if that happens and Donald Trump then has a very good night, otherwise. Getting Utah and Arizona outwest, winning Florida and winning Ohio, look who that gets it a 243. So even if Donald Trump, even if from this point on, let's say Donald Trump does crack the blue wall at 243. Even if he were to win Michigan and even if win Wisconsin, it's not enough for him if Hillary Clinton wins North Carolina. It would take her over the top. So one of the other things you look at here, if Donald Trump wins Pennsylvania and these stay blue -- now we go back for me -- there we go, she gets over the top. So, it's 15, so it's part of the important map, but also the message.
David Axelrod lost it in 2012, won it in 2008. The Obama campaign Democrats can afford to lose it, but if they win it, it's a message, we turned a red state blue. But for Donald Trump, it's just very hard. Can you get him to 270 without North Carolina? Yes, but it's near impossible because North Carolina tells you a lot, because of the evenly divided partisanship, they evenly divided demographics. If you're wining North Carolina and you're Donald Trump, that probably means you're winning other big states too.
COOPER: So, I mean Clinton's there tonight, the president is visiting twice this week for her. What are the keys to victory for her there?
KING: Let's switch maps and take a look at that. Because again, it's such an evenly divided demographic state. And we know from that early voting data and just from reality, her coalition is a little different from his. Let's just look at the latest poll right now. Quinnipiac University has her up three points, that's statically a very close within the margin of error. So a statistical ties slight advantage, Clinton, look at it that way. And then when you bring this up and take a look here, you want to look at this by the numbers.
This is 2012 exit polls for the Obama performance and this is the Quinnipiac poll where Clinton is now. She's running a little ahead where the president was among white voters, but a little below the president among white voters. That's important in the Quinnipiac poll, that's African-Americans and Latinos and others. She's running a little below the president with men. That's a warning sign for her, Donald Trump as well.
Running about even, slightly ahead of the president with women. Here's where this is going to come into play. Not just North Carolina, but this is why it's a message state. If this happens in North Carolina, it's probably happening in the Philadelphia suburbs, and another suburbs as well.
What about white voters with college degrees? She's running a little ahead of President Obama there and specifically among white women with college degrees, 10 points ahead of where President Obama was in 2012. That is the key here. Can Donald Trump, because if Hillary Clinton runs up these numbers here and keeps it close, the trade-offs, she's plus down here to make up for the minuses up here. She'll probably squeak it out in North Carolina and that blocks Trump.
COOPER: What about Trump how does he win North Carolina?
KING: Well, number one, run up the white vote. Barack Obama won it with 35 percent of the white vote in 2008. He only got 30 -- just 31 percent of the white vote in 2012 and he just barely lost. So that's important for Donald Trump. Let me just switch the map and go back to 2012 and look to just -- do it this way. Donald Trump must run it up here, absolute -- doesn't want to work for me here. Must run it up here, must run it up out here in the rural areas. But to that suburban point, I just want to pop up the Raleigh Durham area, Wake County.
So a lot of African-American votes here, but it's not just African- Americans. You have a lot of whites out the suburbs. He can't afford to lose by 10 or 11 points. He has to get closer in the big areas where you have not only African-American voters, but the suburbs, over in Charlotte area as well, he cannot lose by that margin in Mecklenburg County. He has to -- if he makes inroads with African- Americans great, but this is more about the suburbs outside of Charlotte. He's got to keep that close and run it up in the rural areas.
COOPER: All right, John, I want to bring the rest of panel to get a closer look at the focus of the early voting push in North Carolina, African-American after yesterday in Chapel Hill. President Obama called attentions to the controversy over voting laws there. Today Hillary Clinton highlighted another hot-button issue. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: Just a few days ago, I want you to hear this, because this has never happened to a major -- to a nominee of a major party. Just a few days ago, Donald Trump was endorsed by the official newspaper of the Ku Klux Klan.
[21:15:06] They wrote their endorsement under the slogan of his campaign, "Make America great again." They said it's about preserving white identity and they've place their faith and hope in him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: A quick reminder, the Trump campaign has disavowed that endorsement. Back with the panel again. Jeffrey Lord, I mean, does that worry you, that Hillary Clinton is the president?
JFFFREY LORD, TRUMP SUPPORTER: No, I mean, first of all, that's a flat-out, if I may say this, lie. I mean, the Ku Klux Klan was formed as the military arm of the Democratic Party.
MARIA CARDONA, CLINTON SUPPORTER: OK.
LORD: I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
CARDONA: We're talking about 2016.
LORD: I'm sorry, but it exists in the first place because of your party, which has never apologized for this.
CARDONA: Who did they endorse?
LORD: They endorsed Woodrow Wilson.
COOPER: Beyond the ...
LORD: And we protected it.
COOPER: Beyond the history, just right now, in the 2016, does it matter in this election for Donald Trump?
LORD: It matters ...
COOPER: They quickly ...
LORD: It matters to reject racism and anti-Semitism, which they stand for.
LORD: And that should apply not just to the Klan, but to all sorts of people like Al Sharpton.
CARDONA: But here's what ...
BAKARI SELLERS, CLINTON SUPPORTER: Whoa, whoa, whoa.
CARDONA: OK, I'll let you go first.
SELLERS: I mean, the Ku Klux Klan literally lynched people, terrorized people and then ...
COOPER: Wait a minute. Let him respond and then ...
SELLERS: ... it's just unfair. To whatever you may think about Al Sharpton, I just think that's unfair. That's first. Second, if you -- let's look at this throughout the week. What we've had this week is David Duke on the United States Senate stage, saying that Hillary Clinton deserved to have the electric chair. You had a church that was -- a black church that was bombed in Mississippi. And you have the KKK to come out in their newspaper and endorse Donald Trump.
And so when you think of these things and look at it in the totality like that, then there is this element. And true, it may not be Donald Trump, but there is this element that may people believe he represents. So there's a young lady who -- Ms. Wiggins. Ms. Wiggins attempted to get housing from Donald Trump in New York City and she was discriminated against, because of the color of her skin. The Central Park Five, I mean, they've been terrorized by Donald Trump since they were found innocent in the first place and now over and over and over again.
And so these are real people going out there telling real stories about discriminatory practices of Donald Trump.
JACK KINGSTON, SENIOR ADVISER TRUMP CAMPAIGN: Anderson, there's nothing new under the sun here. We're in the home stretch. Hillary Clinton's numbers are cratering because she's lied to the FBI. She's under a criminal investigation. WikiLeaks is an embarrassment to the Democrat Party. And Obamacare in North Carolina is going up 40 percent. So what do the Democrats do? They tried and true method. They play the race card. They did it against Mitt Romney -- they did it against Mitt Romney, they did it against, the only thing ...
COOPER: This is certainly not what the Democrats talks about doing in the final days of this election. I mean, it was supposed to be kind of, going high. She is clearly running scared and going after Donald Trump's character.
CARDONA: Well, she's not running scared. She is making sure that the contract is real because there's no question that the ...
COOPER: But the whole idea is going high.
CARDONA: So the FBI news on Friday certainly, you know, it was a huge stink bomb that left a putrid smell, that hopefully is dissipating now. But what she needs to do right now, frankly, it is the example of -- the perfect example of Darwinian methodology in politics. You have to adapt to your situation. So, yes, she is adapting to her situation. And what is that? You have to contrast at the end of a campaign, if you have something like the FBI news come at you, you have to go hard on the contrast. And that's exactly what she's doing.
SELLERS: One thing that my friend, Jack Kingston the congressman from Georgia, stated was that somehow the people are playing the race card and -- but that is just -- because Congressman, you don't want to deal with race ...
SELLERS: You don't want to deal with race. (CROSSTALK)
COOPER: Just let him -- ask and then Congressman ...
KINGSTON: As the member of Congress who authored the bill for the Civil Rights Museum, located five blocks from here, that -- and now you're saying, I don't want to deal with race, that thing is a ...
SELLERS: I apologize to the Central Park Five. Why don't you apologize to Ms. Mae Wiggins.
KINGSTON: ... getting around to apologizing for slavery? Oh my goodness ...
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Are we supposed to be shocked that in the last days of the campaign, the campaigns are going negative? They're going negative. We've all know that.
KINGSTON: Hillary exist.
BORGER: There's gambling in ...
CARDONA: Oh, come on! Donald Trump is, too.
BORGER: They're going negative. But the truth of the matter is, and Bakari, you know these numbers, that the black vote is down in North Carolina. 22.7 percent early voting now, in 2012 it was 28 percent.
[21:20:06] We cannot compare Hillary Clinton to Barack Obama, obviously, it's going to be lower. But it is a number that concerns Democrats and what the president was trying to do and what Hillary Clinton is trying to do is to outline the stakes of this campaign to people of color in a very important wait.
CARDONA: Of course.
COOPER: David, you know North Carolina very well. President Obama won in 2008, did not win in 2012, right?
DAVID AXELROD, FORMER OBAMA SENIOR ADVISER: Yeah, so I wanted in ...
AXELROD: He won it and I lost.
KINGSTON: So that's how -- I'm sure that's how he remembered it.
COOPER: So what is happening there now? What needs to happen for either campaign?
AXELROD: Well, look, I think it is a marginal race. And it will be a turnout election. And the reason that Barack Obama is spending so much time there is, he can galvanize those constituencies that are lagging behind. Younger voters, African-American voters. He's going to Marcus in Florida were the same is true and the visit to Philadelphia is a turnout visit ...
We are now in that phase of the campaign ...
AXELROD: ... when we're talking about turnout. But let me make a point about where I think this campaign is and how we got here. A lot has been put on the FBI tape, and I think really what's happened is that as we get a distance from the release of that "Access Hollywood" tape and the debates, and Trump has settled down and is reading off of teleprompters and isn't acting up, Republicans are coming home to him. And this is becoming more of a traditional national election and turnout is going to be in this battleground states, a big deal.
COPPER: Well, John you made an interesting point last night which I've been thinking about, which is that states return to their DNA.
KING: Most states do.
COOPER: Explain what that mean?
KING: Well Michigan has voted Democrat for president since 1988. Therefore, we should assume, its DNA is to vote Democrat for president, unless something changes and let's watch it. Donald Trump is an interesting candidate, because of his trade message, because of his crossover appeal, he certainly has more -- you look at Michigan, you're going to say, Donald Trump has a better chance than John McCain. A, because of their message, B, because of the year. John McCain was running against the first Obama campaign. They ran a great campaign, but I'm sorry, you know, that was a Democratic year. They were going to win and then they turn the whole bunch of red states blue, to their credit.
But -- so you look at the states, but Donald Trump has not cracked through anywhere yet. And so you're looking at, that doesn't mean he won't, that doesn't mean he's not on position but it's late, we have time. But most states, look, California is going to vote Democrat for president. Anybody disagree? New York is going to vote Democrat for president? Texas? I feel a little closer this time. It's going to vote Republican for president.
There are only six, eight, sometimes 10 states that are really in play, and that's what we got when we look at, you know, Ohio, North Carolina, and Florida, are going to decide this election.
COOPER: All right, a lot more to talk about, including Dana Bash's reporting on something the panel argues about every single night, the ground game. More on that, ahead.
[21:25:42] COOPER: As I've often said, football is a game of inches where victory, I have never said that. Where victory of -- I don't know if that's true. Where victory often comes three yards and a cloud of dust. I don't know what that means. I never said any of those things.
The only ground game I actually do kind of know a little bit about and the one that's already underway, wherever the presidential campaign, is a game of inches and feet, as in feet on the pavement. Anyway, more on how the two campaigns are doing from CNN's Dana Bash.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: On the ground.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'll mark you down at 12:00 on Saturday for phone banking.
BASH: On the stump.
CLINTON: If we vote, we win.
TRUMP: Get it and vote!
BASH: It's all now about getting out the vote. For Republicans, that means learning from their mistakes. After their lagging 2012 operation failed, the Republican national committee began working three years ago to step up their game.
How is what you're doing in 2016 different from what you did in 2012?
MATT DAILER, ANC IOWA STATE DIRECTOR: We are 100 miles away from where we are in 2012.
BASH: The biggest difference, activists now use this phone app to get out the vote.
DAILER: It will show you their party affiliation, how reliable they are as a voter, their age, stuff like that and just click that voter. Take a survey. Boom, right there.
BASH: And it gives volunteers what's called dynamic scripting, prompting different pitches to voters depending on their answers. Information fall instantly sent back to RNC headquarters.
DAILER: We need to talk to a (inaudible) Republicans, and make sure they know when the election is and figure out who they're going to support so we can drive them out.
BASH: Now in the final push, thousands of staffers and volunteers are using that app in Battleground States across the country, the RNC leading Trump's ground operation, says they will complete 17 million door knocks by election day, up from 11.5 million in 2012. It's all very ambitious, but it's been done before, by the Democrats.
OBAMA: I'm doing great. What's your name?
BASH: Republican strategists admit they're trying to emulate the Obama ground machine that crushed the GOP for two cycles.
My name is Mary Pricken Wagon (ph), I'm a volunteer ...
BASH: Armies of Democratic activists are spread out over the same key states as Republicans. Clinton campaign aides say they've signed up some 1 million volunteer shifts for the last 96 hours alone. In some ways, team Clinton is old school using paper and clipboards input it and tallied at the end of each day. Still, the Clinton system is very high-tech, using social media to build on that vaunted Obama operation.
JESSALYN REID, V.A. DIGITAL DIRECTOR, CLINTON CAMPAIGN: Text plan to 27246. It's now going to walk me through making my entire voting plan.
BASH: A personalized plan for where to vote, when to vote, and even how to get there.
Forcing people to get specific and to give a commitment.
REID: Exactly. I'm taking public transit, I'm voting in the morning and I know my polling location. So I can a reminder straight to my phone, straight to my pocket on election day to tell me to go vote.
BASH: Clinton officially say, volunteers are pretty much done trying to persuade voters to support Clinton.
BASH: No stop Trump voters, you're not getting down with those?
REID: So we're just focused on the turnout right now.
BASH: Translation, team Clinton knows exactly who her voters are. Now it's all about making sure those voters actually cast their ballots.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: And Dana's back with us. The campaign is also focusing on voter turnout in some campaign ads.
BASH: Absolutely. There's the ground war as they say, and then there's air war and the air war we've been talking about, the fact that there's a barrage of new ads even this week. And on that note, Hillary Clinton is outspending Donald Trump, big-time. As of now, the Clinton campaign is poised to spend $20 million more, just this week, than Donald Trump.
COOPER: David, I mean, you know this stuff firsthand. I mean, how do the two ground games stack up and how important is the advantage to Hillary Clinton seems?
AXELROD: Well the difference between them is that the Clinton campaign is in control of its open ground game. And they're focused on Hillary Clinton. The Republican operation is focused on bringing Republicans out. But they're not Trump focused and they're not coordinated to the degree that perhaps they should be, with the Trump campaign. So it's unclear to me what the drag. There could be places where they're bringing out voters for Republican candidates who aren't necessarily Trump voters.
[21:29:55] BASH: Let me just add a little bit to that. The RNC and the Trump campaign is more coordinated than I think people realize. They are -- just for example, I was in Iowa at that Republican Center, and the Iowa State Director, Eric Branstad, is literally next door to the RNC Director ...
AXELROD: And his son.
BASH: And the governor's son. So they're actually working in the same offices in many places in these battleground states. And they've constant -- also it's not the same as being under the same roof, but ...
AXELROD: Part of the benefit that the Clinton folks have had is that they've had a long run-up to this. They've got -- they've been accumulating data for a long time. They've been focused on this program for a long time. So, I mean, it should be -- I think it should be an advantage to them.
KING: My question is, number one, I think from -- they have him, his people now, she got rid of her 2008 team in large part and hired the Obama team, which unique. So it's the third time for a lot of these people or the people who are teaching the new people how to experience that. My question is though, I don't mean this in a bad way at all, 2008 ...
AXELROD: Generally when people say that, they mean it in a bad way.
KING: 2008 was a -- you know, it was a breakthrough campaign but it was a Democratic year. 2012, you had a race much like this.
KING: So in the sense of that, you know, are they tested for this week? Last week they were thinking about, let's win -- let's try to win Utah, now...
AXELROD: Look, I think technology has set such a pace.
AXELROD: If we had done in 2012 what we had done in 2008, we would have been much less successful. You have to grow.
BASH: Which is why if you saw, I mean the Democrats are doing that unbelievably. But so ...
KING: Isn't it true? BORGER: Combine the technology that you're talking about with the extra money that Hillary Clinton has ...
BORGER: ... with the late edge. She's got $171 million extra total ...
CARDONA: All right.
BORGER: ... extra cash on hand, excluding super PAC. She can match him wherever he is running late ads. Like States of Colorado, Virginia, that of Mexican.
AXELROD: Yeah, she's gone and to check him in those states, yes.
BORGER: So, she can check him and so ...
COOPER: Corey Lewandowski last night I think was saying that kind of this whole notion of ground game is sort of antiquated, and it's kind of old school that they're seeing a kind of enthusiasm that has not been seen before.
KINGSTON: Well, I think that's true. And one of the questions I want David ...
AXELROD: Field of dreams theory.
KINGSTON: But not all voters react the same way to the same stimulus, whether it's a TV ad or somebody knocking on the door. It is my understanding over the years that Democrats have a better ground game, but they get more out of it because their voters react better to it than Republicans who -- Sean Spicer, you know, from the RNC, has really started working on this. In 2013, we had 7,000 paid staffers. The 13 million doors that they knocked on, those aren't fake numbers. Those are real. So ...
COOPER: All right.
KINGSTON: You know, he's spent a lot of time in and I think we feel good about where we are.
SELLERS: I think that it's common knowledge that Democrats do this better, especially in national elections and all we have to do is point to the last two elections. But I kind of feel like we're in the same place as we were in 2012, because at that time, the Republicans bet on, I believe it was called ORCA.
SELLERS: They bet on ORCA. And I remember late at night, everybody thought ORCA was going to work. It was going to be amazing and the reason it didn't is because the first time they tested ORCA was on election night. And then it failed.
BASH: Yeah. KING: But they've learned from that mistake.
KING: They have a much better system this time. I think the question is, to Dana's point ...
BASH: He coordinate ...
KING: Here in Iowa, a state where you have a Republican governor who's rebuilt the party, whose has done a very nice job rebuilding the party, who very early on said, I'm with Trump, whatever reservations, I'm with Trump. In some other places, you do have dissidence, Ohio, for example. So you just wonder if it gets that close in one or two of the states, is there a little bit of ...
COOPER: I was thinking about ORCA, as bad movie ...
SELLERS: My only other point in that ORCA is that, you build this machine and that machine is built to go out and get a voter for you. And it's still yet to be seen whether this lost white voter that Donald Trump is trying to bring back, that didn't vote for John McCain.
SELLERS: That didn't vote ...
AXELROD: You remember that day, at the end of the day ...
BASH: That's not what this new RNC ...
AXELROD: At the end of the day, what technology should do is allow you to identify those voters who are high-propensity voters for you.
AXELROD: Who are high-propensity that come out and vote.
AXELROD: ... or who can be motivated to vote, so you can target them like a laser and bring them out.
LORD: And they have come to my door in Pennsylvania just the other day, were knocking me on the door handing me stuff for Donald Trump.
BASH: Did they not know who you were?
LORD: No, no they were working the neighborhood there. And I have to say, again, and we've talked about this before that, the Trump signs are everywhere. Everywhere. And I've seen literally two. And I've been to the Trump headquarters to see what's up. They're handing these things out like ...
AXELROD: Can I just say this, so we talked about Pennsylvania on the side a moment ago. One of the things, I'm having sort of flashbacks to 2012, when there was this big rush at the end, you'll remember, I was assaulted on television by some folks saying, you're falling behind in Pennsylvania, in Michigan, in Minnesota, and you're going to lose those states. And the fact is that the polls at that time were probably no better and in some cases worse for Barack Obama than they are for Hillary.
LORD: But I'm going to agree with you in 2008. I would have agree with you.
CARDONA: No, I think ...
KINGSTON: The transit strike affects anything in Philadelphia? I mean, could that have a ...
KINGSTON: It would appear to me that would keep some Democrats ...
AXELROD: I think Philadelphia ...
KINGSTON: And maybe anger.
AXELROD: If I were ...
[21:35:02] CARDONA: First of all, signs don't vote. So, you know ...
LORD: I know but they don't pop up by accident.
CARDONA: ... I will be concern. But it's the same argument that you make about enthusiasm. Enthusiasm doesn't automatically mean that all of those people at Trump rallies are going to go out and vote.
So to David's point, I do think that Hillary Clinton's ground gamed because she has invested in this so much for over a year and a half, in this infrastructure, and it is hers, right? She gets to the campaign, gets to design it, gets to say what every volunteer is going to do. I think that will add at least two points to a lot of these polls we're seeing right now.
BORGER: But David, was Obama's enthusiasm higher than Hillary Clinton's point?
AXELROD: Yes, and particularly among younger voters.
BORGER: That's right.
AXELROD: ... and the American voters and that's why they're deploying him, Michelle ...
AXELROD: ... to try and ...
BORGER: And Bernie ...
AXELROD: In these key states to ...
KINGSTON: Remember this Obamacare in North Carolina is going up 40 percent. Obamacare nationally does not have a good brand, if you will. It's going up in other states. But in Philadelphia -- or in Pennsylvania, 53 percent, so, you know ...
AXELROD: I think it's 2 percent in Ohio. So do you think Hillary Clinton will win Ohio?
COOPER: All right, let's take a quick break. We've got a lot more with the panel, including the battle on Utah, where independent Evan McMullin is doing his best to try it for race, to raise his goal, block Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton from getting to 270.
COOPER: In most presidential elections, Utah is a lot for Republicans, but his is not most elections. In a new Monmouth University Poll, Donald Trump has a 6 point lead over Hillary Clinton, 37 percent to 31 percent. Independent candidate Evan McMullin is at 24 percent. Gary Johnson and Jill Stein in the single digits. McMullin is only one on the ballot in 11 states. He's registered as a write-in in others. His goal is to block both major party candidates from getting to 270 electoral votes needed to win.
Here's what he said earlier on CNN.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[21:40:10] EVAN MCMULLIN, (I) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: People in Utah are very uncomfortable with Donald Trump and opposed to him, but they also don't like Hillary Clinton, due to her corruption and big government policies. So, our job, my job, in this campaign, is to convince Utahns that they should come onboard with our strategy, which is, in this case that the election is so tight, if they vote with us, if they stay with us, and we can win a state or two, we can block both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: That's what he hopes to do. Does he have a chance? Stephanie Elam reports.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Never Hillary and turned off by Trump, voters like Greg Fix are turning deeply red Utah into a battleground state.
GREG FIX, VOTED FOR MCMULLIN: I'm a conservative.
ELAM: The difference in the Beehive State this election is Evan McMullin, running for president as an independent. The 40-year-old Mormon says he's advocating true conservative values.
MCMULLIN: Hello sir, how are you doing?
ELAM: Fix, a Mormon who votes Republican, choose McMullin for president.
FIX: Looking at the two main party candidates, neither one of them really have the values that I feel and the character that this country needs to represent the United States of America.
ELAM: Of the Republicans in Utah, about 85 percent are Mormon.
QUIN MONSON, Y2ANALYTIC: It's pretty real this year, to see electoral maps that have Utah painted a as a battleground state.
ELAM: He says never before has a Republican nominee been so out of sync with traditional Mormon values.
MONSON: So you have Mormons that are siding with Trump, many of whom are doing so reluctantly and another group who have been waiting all year for some alternative that they could live with, because they couldn't go and vote for Hillary Clinton.
You add on top of that his own personal morality, the reaction to the tape, the way he treats women, the way he just lashes out of people.
ELAM: This has made McMullin appealing to many members of the church of ladder day saints in Utah. On top of that, there are more than 515,000 active registered voters unaffiliated with any party in the state. That may also bode well for the independent candidate. But for some, a McMullin victory is ultimately a Clinton victory. LDS Member Maureen Anderson voted for Trump.
So in that way, you weren't swayed to perhaps vote for Evan McMullin?
MAUREEN ANDERSON, VOTED FOR TRUMP: No.
ELAM: Why not? What was it about him that didn't appeal to you?
ANDERSON: I just think that right now -- it's a two-party system and voting for a third party candidate, it's not the way the system works. And just because he's LDS isn't a reason why I would pick someone to vote for.
FIX: I think you need to vote your conscience. Vote for what you feel is best for us as a country.
ELAM: Stephanie Elam, CNN, Salt Lake City, Utah.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: And John King is back, he's got some numbers to underscore Stephanie's reporting and what it can mean Tuesday night, what is electoral significance of Utah?
KING: Normally, Anderson, not much. It's just six and we've put them in the Republican column. But let's just take a look, let's pop this out, let's look at that poll Stephanie was just talking about. 37 percent for Trump, 31 percent for Hillary Clinton, 24 -- so compared to polls a week or two ago, Donald Trump looks like he's in better shape. But let's just go back in time a little bit.
Mitt Romney got 73 percent of the vote in Utah, four years ago. What does that say about conservative support for Donald Trump? Let's go back again, 2008, John McCain got 63 percent. Even in a big Democratic year, John McCain got 63 percent. So, what does say about Donald Trump's conservative support? So it's a warning sign in Utah, even if the wins that would allow number and the question is, what's the trickle effect on other state? I just want to back to one, it's not normally -- we don't worry about Utah. But let me go back to 2000.
See this race? Remember this race. Al Gore won the popular vote? George W. Bush won the White House with 271 electoral votes. One extra, one to spare. Most people think that if Donald Trump can pull this off, that's what we'll end like, Donald Trump winning with 271, 272, 273, right? Not a blowout. Well, if he's got 271, 272, 273 then you minus six, goes to Evan McMullin, he doesn't get there. So, is that a dream scenario? Maybe. But Donald Trump is trying to mount what would be an epic historical comeback. He can't afford to lose those six. Just can't.
COOPER: All right. John, thanks very much for rejoining the panel, does Utah worry you?
LORD: No. No, no, I mean now that I so these polls, no. I think Republicans really are coming home. They're coming home in Pennsylvania, they're coming home everywhere, I think. I mean ...
COOPER: We're seen with public Republican who abandoned him in the wake of the "Access Hollywood" tape, Chaffetz and others.
LORD: Right. Right, I mean again, this whole FBI and the culture of corruption. And this is just being pounded away on conservative talk radio and conservative outlets. And that message is clearly getting through, and I have to say, by Hillary Clinton herself and her conduct. I mean, when you have people like Tom Friedman from the "New York Times" saying she was unbelievably stupid to be doing this, I mean, that message gets out there. And it is resonating with people.
[21:45:00] COOPER: Bakari?
SELLERS: One of the things I think we can see in Utah, and I'll leave this up to John and Gloria, who probably know this better than I but you have to look at the Mormon Republican vote in Utah, because that doesn't just affect Utah, but that also translates into Nevada. And so when we're starting to look at and maybe not a close race where he wins in Utah, it may be a close race in Nevada, where if he doesn't get and consolidate all of those GOP base, which include Mormon Republicans, then he could be in trouble.
AXELROD: They have Utah and Colorado.
KING: To a degree as well.
KING: If we see this happen.
KING: That's a big thing to watch, because there's been a Mormon and a conservative revolt against Trump out there.
Governor Romney spends a lot of time in Utah now, and he was telling friends just a few weeks ago, a few days ago, actually, he thought that Evan McMullin had a chance to win. That poll would suggest otherwise. I would guess based on what we've seen in our other polling out west, there does seem to be this consolidation that Donald Trump wins Utah. But if he wins Utah with 30 something percent ...
KING: ... the story of Utah is going to be after the election. Evan McMullin and other conservatives are saying this is not done. This is the beginning of the fracturing. The beginning of the conversation they want to have Republican Party. The fights in the Republican Party, Trump wins or loses are not ending on election night.
LORD: Yeah, I agree.
BORGER: And Romney is front and center. All right, Romney was the first never-Trumper.
BORGER: And Romney carries a lot of weight in the state of Utah. And so I think that matters. I think in the end, I think Utah will still be Republican.
KINGSTON: Romney's popularity is confined to Utah. Then, he did not do well in his ...
BORGER: He runs for president once ...
KINGSTON: I'm talking 2016 in the Republican Party. Romney is not one of our heroes anymore. He was a moderate. He was not a tough campaigner. He apologized for being a conservative. He didn't -- did not, embrace his grandfather, which would have been a great idea in terms of trying to get Hispanic vote.
BASH: But Congressman ...
KINGSTON: But the reality is that Romney is part of the establishment that Donald Trump has run against and done so ...
KING: And his running mate, Paul Ryan, this is the conversation that's going to go on ...
BASH: And to that point ...
KINGSTON: Ryan is a young man and he's ...
BASH: Congressman, I covered you and your former colleagues for a long time in politics. And Romney aside, there is to John's point, there is a very, very, very deep split, which is getting deeper and deeper with each election ...
BASH: ... within the Republican Party. And if there is a President Trump, it's going to be fascinating to see how he works ...
KINGSTON: But it's also ...
BASH: ... works with Lindsey Graham and Ben Sasse and even Mitch McConnell, people who are not even close to being Donald Trump ...
BORGER: And John McCain
KINGSTON: I think that party split and then I agree with you 100 percent. I think it's going to turn out to be a good thing. It's going to take a while for us to figure out, OK, what do you do with the Tea Party folks who really put both purity often over philosophy or getting something done. Because sometimes you just have to compromise.
KING: I think that they ...
KINGSTON: But I think it will happen.
KINGSTON: And I think it will be ...
AXELROD: It could be that you'll have a President Trump and that will be interesting. The odds are right now that you'll have a President Clinton, and it seems to me given the deep fissures in the Republican Party, that the only thing that unites Republicans is Anti-Clintonism, as it's the only thing that's united some factions of the party, has been Anti-Obamaism. So what it does portend is an environment in which is going to be a great deal of ... (CROSSTALK)
CARDONA: Except for I do think, and I mentioned this earlier, that, you know, maybe not a huge percentage, but there are Republicans out there who will not vote for Trump. And I think what this fight for Utah does, is that underscores the issues, as much as the FBI is now in the news and as much as Trump is going to continue to bring it up and there's a reason why Hillary Clinton is contrasting, is because the issues that Donald Trump faces, the negative issues, the 12 women who have accused him, the upcoming trial for Trump University and the fraud, the upcoming rape trial that he has on December 16th.
These are issues that he continues to face. None of that has changed. And I think it benefits voters to remind people of the contrast and the issue at hand.
SELLERS: Let me put this in context of what we saw today with Melania Trump. Because if the Republican Party was actually a unit, it would actually be -- Donald Trump would be a stronger candidate for president. Because instead of having Melania Trump who gave a good speech today and she talks about bullying, you would have Joni Ernst and you would have Nikki Haley out there traversing the country talking about women's issues. And you would have George W. Bush, who is literally the best candidate and campaigner that the Republican Party has right now and you would have Mitt Romney.
COOPER: Congressman, and then we got to go.
KINGSTON: Let me say this, Hillary Clinton has been in politics for 30 years. Barack Obama has had the presidency now for eight. They're not talking about what they did for health care. They're not talking about what they did for national security.
KINGSTON: They're not talking about jobs. That's the difference between, Hillary Clinton ...
BORGER: Nobody is.
KINGSTON: ... and Donald Trump.
COOPER: All right.
BORGER: Actually, Obama talked about health care quite a lot today.
COOPER: I want to thank everybody. Just ahead Donald Trump and President Obama drew big crowds when they campaigned today in the same Florida City. Gary Tuchman with that both rallies, what supporters at each event told him ahead.
[21:53:19] COOPER: Florida's long been a pivotal swing state, it's also the biggest with 29 electoral votes. Now the latest CNN poll of polls, Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump are locked in a dead heat in the Sunshine State tied at 45 percent.
Now both campaigns making a final push across the state. Today they targeted the same city. In fact, Gary Tuchman was with both events and talked to supporters on each side.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: One day in Jacksonville, Florida two political rallies with vary different allegiances.
Donald Trump speaking to his supporters.
TRUMP: Wow, great crowd.
TUCHMAN: President Obama speaking to his and Hillary Clinton supporters.
OBAMA: It is good to be in Jacksonville.
TUCHMAN: In a state where the polls are deadlocked. So how to break that deadlock?
What advice would you give Hillary Clinton about how to win Florida and how to win this election if she asked you for your advice?
AYANA GRADY, CLINTON SUPPORTER: Well, I think that she just have to continues stay in positive. I like the whole, you know, they go low, we go high and I think that just stay on, stay above the fray.
TUCHMAN: If Donald Trump says, to you, Lonnie, give me some advice, what do I need to focus on, it's election day right now, what do you say him?
LONNIE DAVIS, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Just keep his calm, just like he said yesterday in his rally. He said just coast along. He's doing fine.
TUCHMAN: At both rallies, many recommendations to stay positive, but that's definitely not a unanimous recommendation for the final days of campaigning.
At the Trump rally.
DEBBIE WILKINS, TRUMP SUPPORTER: I think he should talk about Hillary Clinton and the things that she's said, the things that she is called us -- we voters, half the country, deplorables.
NIKKI VILLANUEVA, TRUMP SUPPORTER: We need to focus on creating a proper women's legacy.
TUCHMAN: What does that mean?
VILLANUEVA: Meaning that Hillary is not the proper legacy for my daughters, for me, and for every woman in America.
[21:55:03] TUCHMAN: At the Obama rally for Clinton.
RILEY BROWN, CLINTON SUPPORTER: Obvious I'm not a woman, American be able to have the correct perspective as a women the same thing, but in my view, like I don't really understand how you can't be a woman and at least to be offended by the things that Trump has said.
TUCHMAN: Do you think she should be talking about Donald Trump?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Somewhat, yes. He is the most dangerous candidate in my lifetime.
TUCHMAN: Notable at both these rallies, the utter lack of faith that compromise or being conciliatory could lead to some of new favors Clinton switching to Trump, or someone who favors Trump switching to Clinton.
What do you think of the Trump supporters?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think there's something underlying their devotion to this man.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The people that are voting for Hillary are just like Hillary. You're not going to switch them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Gary, did you talk to any Clinton or Trump supporter stay who want them to completely stay off the attack from now until the election?
TUCHMAN: Well, I talked to quite a few people. Clinton supporters and Trump supporters who want their candidates to stay completely positive from this very moment until Election Day, no attacks at all.
But that comes with a huge caveat for most of those people. And that is if their candidate is attacked, then they want their candidate to attack, Anderson.
COOPER: All right. Gary, thanks very much. We'll be right back.
COOPER: Before we go, a quick programming note about Tuesday, we'll be on, basically, wall-to-wall bringing late election coverage Tuesday, Election Day, all day right here on CNN.
[22:00:01] That does it for us. Thanks for watching.
"CNN TONIGHT" with Don Lemon starts now.