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Trump To Speak in North Carolina; Trump Accusations; Ex- Apprentice Star Speaks About Trump. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired October 14, 2016 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[14:00:00] WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: "Newsroom" with Brooke Baldwin starts right now.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: Here we go. Top of the hour. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you so much for being with me. This is CNN.

Any moment now, Donald Trump will be speaking there from Greensboro, North Carolina. We'll see how he responds to these new accusations. These are in addition to what we first saw printed yesterday. New attacks from Hillary Clinton's most powerful surrogates as well, including the president of the United States.

Just a short time ago, President Obama savaged the Republican nominee, along with Republicans and lawmakers in general, essentially saying that when they failed for years to quash rhetoric about himself and his allies, they helped seed the Trump candidacy.

(INAUDIBLE) there in Greensboro. Jason Carroll, do we have you? There we go.

Do - what do we expect to hear from Trump today?

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, a couple of things. First of all, you know, when we listen to what Donald Trump had to say yesterday in terms of defense, we heard it at one point at a rally. He came out basically calling some of these allegations pure fiction.

But then at a follow-up rally, there was no mention of it at all. What I can tell you is that we are hearing that at certain - at a certain point that the campaign will be pushing back on these allegations. But in terms of how they will push back, will it be in a form of a statement, will it be in a form of a tweet, as we know Donald Trump likes to do? Or will it be here in Greensboro? That remains to be seen.

I can tell you that earlier Mike Pence has been out on the - has been out on the campaign trail and speaking in defense of Donald Trump, saying that in short time there will be some information that is released that he says will back up Trump's claims that these are false claims that are out there. I can also tell you that, as we go forward, and there are more

allegations, like this new allegation that we're seeing, this one now being reported by "The Washington Post." A woman reporting that back in the '90s, telling "The Washington Post," that she was groped by Donald Trump. The Trump campaign speaking to "The Washington Post" and saying, Brooke, that this is just an attempt at publicity, that this, like the other claims, is a false claim.

But what all of this does is, Brooke, it takes the campaign off message. The campaign wants to get out there, wants to talk about Hillary Clinton, talk about e-mails, talk about the economy, trade, and jobs. But what all of this does is, as all of these allegations come out, it takes the campaign off message and what it does is it continues to make GOP leaders, some of the GOP leaders who have already pulled back on the campaign, have really pulled back on Donald Trump in many ways, it makes them more nervous. So this recent allegation now that we're hearing about that "The Washington Post" is reporting is just one more - just - it's just another block that the campaign has that they now have to deal with. There's just no other way of saying it.

Brooke.

BALDWIN: We're about to talk to Karen Tumulty, who broke the story there on "The Post" momentarily. Jason, thank you so much, again, watching and waiting to hear from Donald Trump, how does he handle this and also just where is the evidence here for these multiple accusers who are coming forward?

Specifically, back to this story out of "The Post" here, is this former model, she talked to "The Washington Post," said that Trump had - had - sitting next to her at a club and essentially reached up and touched her genitals. An eerily similar scenario to what we heard in the hot mic video that caught the Republican nominee bragging about what he could get away with because he's a celebrity, he said. CNN has not been able to independently confirm this woman's claims from "The Washington Post" story. So we just want to warn you, though, the details from this are graphic.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KRISTIN ANDERSON, ALLEGED DONALD TRUMP SEXUALLY ASSAULTED HER: And I'm talking to my friend, who I'm sitting to and across from on my left side. I'm very clear on this. This is the vivid part for me. So the person on my right, who, unbeknownst to me at that time, was Donald Trump, put their hand up my skirt. He did touch my vagina through my underwear.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: And the woman who just broke this story, Karen Tumulty with "The Washington Post."

Karen, thank you so much for coming on.

Here we have yet another accuser. And before we get into more of the details, how - how did she come to you or how did you come to know her story?

KAREN TUMULTY, NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, "THE WASHINGTON POST": After the video came out last Friday where Trump had said on the hot mic that he felt entitled by his celebrity, that you could get away with doing this, we got a tip from a third party who said that they knew someone to whom almost this exact thing had happened.

[14:05:09] So we reached out to Kristin. She was sort of not eager to come forward. We talked to her for days. We confirmed that, you know, she had been telling this story to friends for years and we have a couple of them on the record in the story. And then, finally, she read the accounts night before last in "The New York Times" of two women who wrote about being groped and in "People" magazine and she said, I think it's important that I talk. She said, what happened to me was relatively - you know, I brushed it off as minor at the time, but that now I realized that I need to have these women's backs and that these minor things are - she described them as a gateway to more serious behavior.

BALDWIN: Tell me more, Karen, about what she shared with you.

TUMULTY: Well, she said that she was at this nightclub and she was deeply - it was very, very crowded, very, very hectic. People sitting, you know, on sofas, in - on the arms of sofas. And so she was deeply engaged in conversation with friends on her left. She didn't notice who was on her right until she felt the hand go up her skirt.

Now, this is her version of events, but she says - she - as the hand gets closer and touches her vagina through her underwear, she brushes the hand away, jumps up off the couch and turns around and recognizes Donald Trump, who she said she - in the early 1990s, when this happened, when Kristin was 22, he was all over the tabloids. Everybody in New York knew what he looked like and who he was.

BALDWIN: Did she, at the time, did she say she told him to stop, that what he was doing, even for just 30 seconds, was wrong?

TUMULTY: She said there was no conversation at all. She said she just, you know, hit his hand away and essentially fled from the couch. And so she and her friends just sort of decided that this was just really creepy and disgusting, but in their, you know, in their understanding of things, which she now describes as naive, they decided, you know, move on.

BALDWIN: So you mentioned off the top sort of why she came out now. Then comes the question how - you mentioned you talked to other friends to corroborate. Is that how you vetted this?

TUMULTY: That is how we vetted it. We also - we talked to her a little bit about the fact that, you know, if she comes forward like this, she is certain to find her private life under great scrutiny.

BALDWIN: Under scrutiny.

TUMULTY: And she said she was ready to accept that. She provided us, you know, everything that we asked for. We double checked to make sure that she was not some kind of political partisan. In fact, she says she can't decide who she wants to vote for in this election, that she doesn't like Trump or Hillary Clinton and that she wishes she could just maybe write in Mitt Romney or Oprah Winfrey. She, in May, changed her voter registration from Democrat to no party declared.

BALDWIN: Write in Romney or Oprah.

TUMULTY: Right.

BALDWIN: Final question. Yes, final question, Karen. How did Donald Trump respond to this particular story?

TUMULTY: They - the campaign, in a statement through spokeswoman Hope Hicks, denied that this had ever happened and accused her of essentially seeking publicity, which, of course, I would like to repeat, once again, "The Washington Post" went to her, she did not come to us.

BALDWIN: OK. Karen Tumulty breaking just this latest story of accusations of groping from the '90s. Karen, thank you so much, with "The Washington Post."

TUMULTY: Thank you.

BALDWIN: I appreciate it. Thank you.

Again, we're watching and waiting to hear from Donald Trump himself speaking there in Greensboro, North Carolina. We'll take it live as soon as we see him. Meantime, Ari Fleischer is back with us today. He was the White House press secretary for George W. Bush.

Good to see you, sir.

So, here's the deal. With all these different accusers coming forward, Donald Trump, and even listening to Mike Pence this morning on the "Today" show saying false and we have proof. We have evidence. Do you believe them or do you think they're bluffing?

ARI FLEISCHER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY FOR PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: Well, I don't know how anybody knows who to believe. How do you know? How do you - can you believe the accusers at face value? Yes? No? I don't think any of us are in a position to know. I do know from working on campaigns, this is terrible timing for Donald Trump. And all the other issues in this campaign, the press doesn't want to talk about them, the public is gravitating to this. This is our sex journalism publicity entertainment culture. It's all blended now.

BALDWIN: I would like to be talking about the issues, can I just say that, but it's - this is - this is what -

FLEISCHER: Well, let's do that.

BALDWIN: This is what he has been talking about. And listening to Donald Trump on the attack yesterday, this is what he continues to bring up. We'll see if he brings up the issues later this hour in North Carolina. But do you think, though, 25 days from Election Day, I talk to Republican Trump surrogates who want him to talk about the issues, the economy, terror. Do you think it's too late at this point?

[14:10:10] FLEISCHER: Well, I think Donald Trump is - his path to victory is extraordinarily slim right now. He has to count on just a massive turnout of people who have previously never participated in the political process but who already registered and they have to really be a group of voters that are not college educated, because he's losing the college educated vote so badly. I don't see how the math can work out for him, but this has been a cycle none of us could predict.

BALDWIN: Hillary Clinton, meantime, has been laying low. She has let Donald Trump do the speaking sort of for her and sucking all this oxygen up. I mean, from a campaign perspective, do you think that this is smart calculus?

FLEISCHER: Oh, of course it is. But she's also knowing that by doing that she doesn't have to answer the questions about the WikiLeaks, asking her questions about her support for open borders and open trade, things that she denied, of course, in the campaign against Bernie Sanders.

BALDWIN: Yes.

FLEISCHER: You know, what we've seen here is Donald Trump, a lot of issues are being raised about his morality, his personal behavior, but Hillary, we still have a lot of questions about her public behavior and her public policies. How could she say these things against Sanders when the proof comes out she was against them all the time, reinforcing whether she's duplicitous or not.

BALDWIN: She's laying low, and to your point, not having to then answer those questions.

FLEISCHER: Right.

BALDWIN: But she's got some pretty powerful surrogates who are out fighting for her. We saw the first lady yesterday. We've seen her husband. And now the president of the United States, last night in Columbus, Ohio, and again today on the attack. And I just wanted to play this because he's speaking not to Donald Trump in this soundbite, he's speaking to Republicans like you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They know better, a lot of these folks who ran, and they didn't say anything. And so they don't get credit for at the very last minute, when finally the guy that they nominated and they endorsed and they supported is caught on tape saying things that no decent person would even think, much less say, much less brag about, much less laugh about or joke about, much less act on. You can't wait until that finally happens and then say, oh, that's too much. That's enough, and think that somehow you are showing any kind of leadership and deserve to be elected to the United States Senate. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: How would you respond to the president?

FLEISCHER: Well, number one, I'd like to see that same moral condemnation made about Bill Clinton and his behavior. Has Barack Obama done that? I don't know. But I'd also point out, one of the reasons they created - one of the reasons that created Donald -

BALDWIN: But I understand - I understand why Republicans are bringing that up. But, again, it's not Bill Clinton who's running.

FLEISCHER: I understand, but he's making a moral statement. He's making a moral condemnation. If this moral condemnation applies, it should apply broadly.

BALDWIN: Fair and square, you say?

FLEISCHER: He's making it a partisan, political issue because he wants Trump defeated.

But if there's a real reason you can point to the rise of Donald Trump, you can also talk about the failures of Barack Obama. You know, Trump has scored because he talks about make America great again, and I'm saying this as an analyst, not as an advocate.

BALDWIN: Yes.

FLEISCHER: And the reason people want to make America great again is because they think we've failed under President Obama. Our economy's growing at 1.2 percent. You look abroad and you see America is in decline, Russia is taking advantage of everywhere, including interfering now in our own election. And what's President Obama done about it? Nothing.

And then you look at the Middle East melting down on his watch and a singular domestic accomplishment, Obamacare, is falling apart. So there's a reason most Americans think the country's on the wrong track. A lot of the rise of Donald Trump is attributed to Barack Obama more than anything Barack Obama will acknowledge.

BALDWIN: Off of that on to you as press secretary. I mean I'm sure you heard Trump yesterday on the attack. He was he - he was talking about liberals, banking industry -

FLEISCHER: Yes.

BALDWIN: The Clintons, Republicans colluding.

FLEISCHER: You.

BALDWIN: He was talking about collusions out to get him. Isn't that dangerous?

FLEISCHER: It is -

BALDWIN: He's dealt with the media every single day.

FLEISCHER: It's - it's dangerous. It's a political mistake. What he's doing here, at the end of his campaign, is narrowing his appeal instead of broadening his appeal. And that's why his only hope for victory is to have an extraordinary turnout of people who didn't previously participate. The fed up. People who just think it doesn't make a difference what I do. Maybe Donald Trump can get enough of a turnout there. I just mathematically don't see it.

But also I just don't like this conspiratorial approach to government. This is not what we should be about. You know, when Al Gore lost in 2000, the Supreme Court said -

BALDWIN: Yes.

FLEISCHER: George Bush won, Al Gore accepted it.

BALDWIN: Yes.

FLEISCHER: And this is how you keep the American institutions together. So if Donald Trump loses, he needs to accept it and not make this conspiratorial attack.

BALDWIN: If he does, then what?

FLEISCHER: Well, I'll continue to condemn him if he does that. But I just think, if people believe that this election wasn't legitimate, it's very harmful for democracy. I didn't like it when there were certain Democrats who said George Bush was not legitimate. They were doing great harm to our democracy. And I'll condemn it if any Republicans do that if Hillary Clinton wins.

[14:15:01] BALDWIN: What about - I was talking to Randy Evans this week. He's an RNC committee member. He's got Reince Priebus on speed dial.

FLEISCHER: Yes.

BALDWIN: And he was saying to me, I said - because he was sort of saying, Brooke, I told you so, you know, this is what we'd be talking about. I told you four months ago. And I said, OK, Randy, well, what will we be talking about in four months from now. And he said, here's the deal. I think we'll be talking about three parties, Democrats, Republicans, and some sort of Trump party. What do you think we'll be talking about on November 9th?

FLEISCHER: Yes, you know, I've spent a little bit of time thinking about what will life be like for Republicans the day after the election if Donald Trump loses.

BALDWIN: Yes.

FLEISCHER: And it really depends on what Donald Trump does. If he returns to Fifth Avenue and leave politics, I think the party will largely reset.

BALDWIN: Come back together?

FLEISCHER: Yes. We've lost elections before. We lost in '64 and came back in a landslide four years later in '68. Democrats lost in an unprecedented way in 2002 in George Bush's first term and they came back four years later. This is politics. This is government. We're self-correcting. It happens.

But if Trump decides to stay involved, the Republican splits are just going to grow deeper, because this is the fissure. The Republican Party is split. Donald Trump has split it. I've said from the beginning, he's much more of an independent. He's temporarily borrowed the name Republican. He's not really a Republican. He never has been. He ran as a Republican.

So if Donald Trump goes back to Fifth Avenue, I think (INAUDIBLE) return to your typical Washington fights. But the big wild card being what Donald Trump has shown is, there is a big group of blue-collar working class Americans who can become Republicans. Can Republicans keep them and broaden the party in a way where we have to, with Hispanics and African-Americans? That will be the challenge for my party.

BALDWIN: So interesting because we keep talking about Election Day and what happens the evening of November 8th, but to me November 9th, that's the story.

FLEISCHER: Yes.

BALDWIN: Ari Fleischer, happy birthday.

FLEISCHER: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Thirty-eight looks good, my friend. Thirty-eight looks good. Ari Fleischer.

By the way, just a reminder, Donald Trump is getting ready to speak in North Carolina. All of this as these - this latest accusation of groping from the '90s has been broken now in "The Washington Post." We'll see if he responds to that.

Also ahead, I'll talk live with one of his former "Apprentice" contestants to react to these allegations. What did he see? What did he hear in conversations with Donald Trump and his relationship with him for basically a decade?

I'm Brooke Baldwin. This is CNN's special live coverage.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:21:09] BALDWIN: Welcome back. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Live pictures, Greensboro, North Carolina. We're watching and waiting to see Donald Trump there speak. He's promised to prove evidenced - to provide evidence and disproving the women who in recent days have stepped forward accusing him of groping or sexually assaulting them in the past. A lot of people questioning the timing of all of this, of course. Look at the calendar. Twenty-five days until Election Day.

But my next guest says he's been trying to expose Trump's abusive of power and prejudice behavior for a while now. He is Kwame Jackson, the runner-up in season one of Trump's reality show, "The Apprentice." He has had a relationship with Donald Trump since that show aired in 2003/2004. And Kwame joins me live.

Kwame, nice to meet you. Nice to have you on.

KWAME JACKSON, RUNNER-UP, "THE APPRENTICE" SEASON ONE: Good to be here, Brooke.

First of all, let me say, go Heels to a fellow Tar Heel.

BALDWIN: Go Tar Heels. Thank you for the Tar Heel love.

Now on to the news. First, because we - I just talking - was talking to Karen Tumulty with "The Washington Post," this latest woman coming forward, for you, what you saw, what you heard, how did Donald Trump treat men versus women on the show behind the scenes?

JACKSON: You know, I think there was a subtle difference between men and women. I think there was more of a boys club among men. I didn't see any egregious behavior towards women or necessarily to minorities at that time.

But I think the bigger question here to ask, Brooke, is, why is the litmus test and the bar so low for America? Why is the litmus test that we have to have a tape that says, you know, Donald Trump uses the "n" word and he calls Kwame this in the board room and people are looking for those tapes. Why is it that there had to be a tape from Billy Bush to come out to talk about why he treated women the way he did and show the specifics behind it.

With the bar so low, we need to think about the history of his behavior that I've been speaking about over the last 18 months and goes back with the '70s with, you know, the federal accusations in court around his refusal to lease his properties to African-Americans. There has been a long history of negative behavior towards minority and women folks and the fact that, you know, we have this - such a low bar that in a day of what I call kind of all lives matter, you know, why is it that after insulting Mexicans, after insulting African- Americans, military veterans, disabled, that we got to the point that he insults white women and then it becomes America's fault line. So I think that's the broader question that we have to ask.

BALDWIN: I was just talking to Marshawn earlier this week from "The Apprentice" who was bringing up that exact same point.

JACKSON: Yes.

BALDWIN: But on the issue of race, I know you've recently made headlines because you have come out, Kwame, and you've said, you know, Donald Trump is a racist at his core, but I have to push you on that and just say -

JACKSON: Yes.

BALDWIN: What did you witness that proves that assertion?

JACKSON: Yes, so, personally, he never used the "n" word or said something racist to me. What I did get from Donald Trump was what I saw through the birther movement. I wrote an op-ed called "Show Me Your Papers." And "Show Me Your Papers" was how he led the birther movement against Obama, which I felt was a personal indictment against me. It basically said, if you're a minority professional, you have to show that your resume is valid. You have to show your transcript. You have to show your ability and validate yourself to be here.

And I felt some of that same pressure after the fact on "The Apprentice." I felt as though he had talked with a number of people in my background about my time at Goldman Sachs and other employers and he was always trying to figure me out to figure out kind of what is this, you know, African-American guy with this Harvard pedigree doing on my show and why is he involved? And so I felt like there was this -

BALDWIN: Kwame - but, Kwame -

JACKSON: Go ahead.

BALDWIN: If - if you didn't have any specific, you know, interaction with Mr. Trump in - in - from the show or even in the years since that proves to you, tangelo (ph) proof of his racism, then how do you square that?

JACKSON: Yes, no, the squaring for me is the fact that, like I said, the litmus test isn't that someone calls you the "n" word. The litmus test is a history of bigotry that basically says, if you look at multiple incidents of how he's treated African-Americans, as well as other minorities in his business dealings. The fact that there were no minority professionals in executive management roles in any of his companies, at his casinos, at his hotels, anyone I interacted with on the show. The fact that he would lead, you know, like I said, a birther movement that used - basically used race against President Obama to make him an "other," I felt all those were personal indictments against me as well. So if it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck. And I think the fact that America says, oh, until you use the "n" word on tape and we can see it, you are not a racist, that is too low of a bar.

[14:25:27] BALDWIN: I'm listening. I'm listening to you, Kwame, but I'm also just trying to -

JACKSON: Yes.

BALDWIN: I'm trying to be fair and I'm thinking -

JACKSON: Yes, we should.

BALDWIN: Of what Trump has said about - I'm trying to think of what Trump has said about these women, for example.

JACKSON: Yes. BALDWIN: And he's saying, well, where were they, you know, years ago and why didn't they come forward years ago. And then I could say the same to you. You know, you were on the show 10 plus years ago. I'm sure the show didn't hurt your career. It raised your profile.

JACKSON: Without a doubt.

BALDWIN: Where - where were these opinions ten years ago, Kwame?

JACKSON: Yes, so, for me, it's what I call a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde evolution. The person that I met on the show when we filmed in 2003 was an egotistical boss, a rowdy boss, but no direct racist behavior towards me. There had been a history of some documented racism that was kind of scuttlebutt and rumors around the show when I first came on, but I said, hey, let me figure it out for myself. Obviously as we fast forward to the birther movement, which is the tipping point for me and many Americans, and many African-American voters, you see a history after that of repeated incidents that basically validate to me the fact that he has bigoted and racist tendencies. And I don't - I don't think, like I said, the bar should be so low that someone has to be, you know, caught on tape saying the "n" word for them to be a racist. That's not the society we're trying to live in as America becomes more pluralistic.

BALDWIN: OK, Kwame Jackson, that's a question for this country. Kwame Jackson, thank you so much. So good to have you.

JACKSON: Thank you for your time.

BALDWIN: Thank you.

Speaking of Donald Trump, again, we're waiting to hear him speak there in Greensboro, North Carolina, as yet another woman has come forward just today accusing him of sexual assault. We will talk to a Trump supporter coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)