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The Rematch: Trump, Clinton Debate Tonight On CNN; Trump Facing Ultimate Test Tonight Amid Turmoil; Exodus: GOP Lawmakers Calling On Trump To Quit; Cruz To Media: Why Release Trump Tape Now?; Trump Eyes Debate To Rescue Faltering Campaign; Exodus: GOP Lawmakers Calling On Trump To Quit; Pence Standing By Defiant Trump For Now. Aired 2-3p ET

Aired October 9, 2016 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, that's a marching band. And yes, they know our song. Hello, everybody. I'm Kate Bolduan.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm John Berman. Live from Washington University in St. Louis. What day it is, Kate Bolduan?

BOLDUAN: It's debate day in America once again, Friend.

BERMAN: Is it ever? In just a few hours, Donald Trump has 90 minutes -- 90 minutes. It might determine if in fact he survives another 30 days in this race, all this because of the release of that stunning video from 2005 of Donald Trump casually talking about what amounts to sexual assault, bragging about the fact that he could grab a woman's genitals and get away with it because he's famous. This is the video which, needless to say, is quite graphic.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I better use some Tic Tacs, just in case I start kissing her. You know, I'm automatically attracted to beautiful. I just start kissing them, it's like a magnet, just kiss. I don't even wait. And when you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything.

BILLY BUSH, TV HOST: Whatever you want?

TRUMP: Grab them by the [bleep]. You can do anything.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Donald Trump has since apologized when all of this surface. Some are saying that apology does not go far enough. These all as the top leaders since that tape came out, top leaders of his own party are now jumping ship. It's actually easier to track who's still with him rather than who's against him at this point.

Among those condemning his remarks, Trump's running mate, Mike Pence, issuing a pretty astonishing rebuke of his political teammate refusing to defend him. Hillary Clinton for her part has remained largely silent on this and that is likely by design. She is now expected to break that silence very early on in the debate when she takes the stage in just a matter of hours. Let's get to the very latest and let's go straight right now to Jason

Carroll who's been following the Trump campaign. So Jason, what are you hearing from inside the Trump campaign at this moment? It's been changing minute-by-minute, tweet-by-tweet.

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Tweet-by-tweet is a good way of putting it. First of all, the Trump campaign preparing for what is likely to come out at the top of the debate, which is a question most likely about Trump's vulgar comments that he has made. Campaign is ridding itself for that.

Rudy Giuliani are already speaking about it this morning, Kate, saying that Trump will, "Probably apologize again". Certainly, there are a number of folks within the GOP who want to see a more heartfelt apology coming from Trump. Pence, his running mate, being one of them.

But, you know, yesterday when we were in Wisconsin with a number of die-hard Trump supporters, that's not what his base wants to see, at least not the folks that we spoke to. What they want to see is more of the defiant Trump. One woman telling me she wants to see a, "Knockout, drag-out debate".

And when I asked her, is anything off the table? She told me no. She said Donald Trump should go after Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton. We've seen him go after Bill Clinton on twitter. We've also seen him go after a number of those GOP leaders who have spoken out, condemning the remarks that Donald Trump made. Donald Trump on twitter calling many of them traitors. Also saying, "So many self-righteous hypocrites. Watch their poll numbers, and elections, go down."

So certainly, there are a number of Donald Trump supporters within his base who want to see a defiant Trump show up tonight. Certainly, also, there are a number of those within the GOP who say; look, what we're looking for here is someone who shows up tonight who is well- verse on the issues, conciliatory when it comes to issuing some sort of an apology.

I can also tell you that as he's heading out here to St. Louis, with him by his side is his campaign manager, Kellyanne Conway. Rudy Giuliani with him as well, as well as Reince Priebus. So he's got his team with him. The question is though, guys, which Trump is going to show up tonight?

BERMAN: You know, he does have the RNC party chair with him right now. So at least symbolically the support -- the official support still of the Republican party. All right, Jason, thanks so much.

Just moments ago, we showed you some pictures. From moments ago, Hillary Clinton has arrived here in St. Louis in advance of this debate. We have supporters from both campaigns here with us at Washington University.

There she is when she arrived. Our MJ Lee was on that plane for the trip out here. MJ joins us now by phone. We understand, MJ, that the candidate, Secretary Clinton, herself, did not talk to reporters but Jennifer Palmieri, one of her key advisors, did. What she have to say?

MJ LEE, NATIONAL CNN POLITICS REPORTER: That's right, John. Jennifer Palmieri coming to the back of the plane to talk to reporters and try to set the expectations for the big debate tonight. She said that the campaign has certainly been preparing differently for this debate because of the style of the debate being a town hall debate.

Palmieri also said that she actually think the town hall style could help Donald Trump keep him from spiraling like he did the first time. Obviously, that's Palmieri doing a little bit of expectation setting as well as taking a (big) Donald Trump with that comment. And she was also asked about Donald Trump's mindset tonight and she said that it's basically hard to predict and that we are entering unchartered territory. She also had some tough words for Republicans naming Senator John McCain and Kelly Ayotte by name. She said that they will have a lot to answer to for having, "Legitimized and Prop up Donald Trump".

Now, of course, this is going to be the biggest moment that Clinton has since been preparing for, her response to this Donald Trump tape. Remember, she has not publicly addressed this video and the lewd comments that were caught in that video since it came out on Friday. And interestingly, Jennifer Palmieri said that she actually is not sure if Clinton has even watched that video. But, of course, she has been prep on it a lot and this is going to be a really key moment, that's going to come at the very beginning of the debate.

And finally, just to give you a sense of how seriously Clinton and her campaign have been taking this second debate tonight. She has been home with no public campaign event for the last four days so that she could focus on getting ready for tonight. Yesterday, her debate prep in New York was seven hours long. And right now, she is headed directly to a hotel downtown. This is where she is going to huddle with her top advisors. Many of them were actually on the plane with her, including John Podesta, Huma Abedin, Jen Palmieri.

So for both nominees, and especially for Trump, of course, this is going to be a key moment. The first few minutes of the debate when they have to address the Trump video and they are going to have to make sure that their responses are not nothing less than pitch perfect, John and Kate.

BERMAN: They're going to have to address the Trump video with Jennifer Palmieri claimed she's not sure that Hillary Clinton has seen, I call shenanigans, MJ Lee.

BOLDUAN: (Schlenigans). All right.

BERMAN: All right, MJ, thanks so much for being with us, appreciate it.

BOLDUAN: Let's talk more about this. With us right now is Kirsten Powers, CNN political analyst, USA Today columnist and former Clinton administration official. Manu Raju who is also here, he's our CNN senior political reporter Maeve Reston, CNN's national political reporter here with us now. Guys, yes. Manu, chances that Hillary Clinton has not seen that video

is --

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: All right. Especially, since the whole messaging of the campaign over the last couple of days has been about this video. So she's saying that she hasn't seen -- something of the campaign is attacking him on. Look, I mean, she is clearly going to bring this up, even if the voters -- a voter does not ask this question, she's going to pivot very quickly.

The question is, how does Donald Trump respond? Does he show some (quick trition), does he show that he was sorry and that he's learned something from this episode? That is what Republican leaders want to hear. They don't necessarily want them to hear him digging in, they don't want to hear an apology the way the Friday apology went down which was sort of an apology, then he dug in and he started attacking Bill Clinton. They want to hear actually some sympathy from Donald Trump. That will go a long way ensuring that there are not more defections, particularly among the Republican elected leadership in congress by the most part is still barely standing with him right now.

BOLDUAN: Emphasis on barely.

BERMAN: We do know. I mean we know because we have some sources involved with the debate planning. We know that the first questions in this debate are going to be about this tape. And both candidates (inaudible) a questions. Brain Seltzer, CNN's media reporter, reporting that that is, in fact, going to be the case.

Maeve, to me, the question is, then once they both address it and once we find out how abject Donald Trump's apology is and how biting, if biting, Hillary Clinton's response is, then what happens for the other 85 minutes?

MAEVE RESTON, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER: Exactly.

BERMAN: How this hanging over?

RESTON: Well, I mean, I think that's why it's so interesting, the format that we're looking at tonight, with the town hall, with people in the audience, reaction shot. The people at home are going to be watching this undecided voters kind of judging the candidates on the stage. And so, the extent to which, you know, you see Clinton keep trying to come back to the tape or Trump potentially going after Bill Clinton and trying to charge that Hillary was an enabler, that's going to be very tough in this room. You could have a really negative reaction to that. And I think that's a danger for both of them going into the debate.

BOLDUAN: And one thing we've been saying at least, if you watch Twitter, it seems very clear that one of the directions of Donald Trump is going, I mean he's already been bringing up and re-tweeting things about Juanita Broaddrick. I mean, if he goes there, what does that tell us about tonight, Kirsten?

KIRSTEN POWERS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I mean, the question is, does he want to go in sort of kamikaze? Is he willing to just even potentially take himself out in the process? So here's two ways to go onto, one is to try to expand his base. So to ignore what we're hearing from his people saying double-down, go after her to say I can't win with the support I have right now and I need to be contrite -- I mean could be repentant. I need to say why I was wrong and be sincerely wrong.

BOLDUAN: Is that also going to against what he's put on Twitter also this morning like throwing bombs at his party?

POWERS: Yes, absolutely. I mean I think the chances of that happening are very low. I'm just saying that that would be the strategy we're trying to moving in that direction or the other strategy is to say I'm going to go all in with this strategy and maybe I'm not going to win but I'm going to take her down in the process and I'm going to, you know, make this point.

I think the problem is he's so thin-skinned that if she comes after him, the chances of him not lashing back, you know, sort of saying, how dare you. Look at your husband are very low.

RESTON: And there was clearly an evolution in his response to the tape over the last couple of days. Clearly, at first, you know, as we were hearing from sources, he didn't think of it as big of a deal as the rest of his staff did.

BERMAN: Locker room banter.

RESTON: You know, that first statement about locker room banter and then the tape statement which was sort of odd as well, which "SNL" did a great job of sweeping off of. But I think that, you know, for him tonight, you really have to reach that group that is so critical to his chances which are white suburban, college-educated women. And you'd have to do that, you'd think on bended knee at this point.

BERMAN: He's also got to reach out to Republicans who are running for the hills right now, Manu. And again, a lot of this is playing out on Twitter right now. He's attacking Republicans, directly. He's saying, you know, so many self-righteous hypocrites. Watch their poll numbers, and elections, go down. What's the leadership saying? What are they doing? What's Paul Ryan -- where Paul -- he's probably watching the Packers, maybe they will play until tonight. But what is Paul Ryan doing?

RAJU: He's waiting. He's trying to determine what Donald Trump does tonight? Tweeting is one thing. What he says in front of 18 -- some millions people tonight is another --

BERMAN: I think I'm (playing).

RAJU: Yes, it's -- so one of the things that they will be able to do is test how the Republican conference feels about Donald Trump. Tomorrow Morning, an important conference call, House Republican leaders are convening with the entire Republican conference --

BERMAN: Really? BOLDUAN: About this?

RAJU: -- to discuss the presidential race, about this, about everything, about Donald Trump.

BERMAN: (Inaudible) talking about the weather.

RAJU: Yes, exactly. And they're on recess right now. So this is very, very --

BOLDUAN: About that continuing resolution --

RAJU: Yes, exactly. They're on recess right now. So this is very unusual that they're having this tomorrow morning because their going to test how their conference feels. Because right now, we're seeing a lot of members bolt from Donald Trump and a lot of ones are still waiting and deciding what to do. So they're going to hear their cues from Paul Ryan. And it will be interesting to see his message to the conference tomorrow morning.

BOLDUAN: And my sense has also been that everyone is kind of waiting for Paul Ryan. Those that are maybe on the fence and may defect their waiting that maybe don't want to get out in front of the speaker, they're going to take his lead. That's the why he's the Speaker of the House and they're waiting to hear from them.

RAJU: And if he pulls out, it's a risk for him politically because a lot of his members are -- these were a big number of Trump supporters so he can get a lot of backlash from pulling as far (inaudible) --

RESTON: And not just that, not just Paul Ryan but you also have to think that they're going to take their cues from his performance tonight. I mean, if this is another flub performance like the first debate, what is the utility for some of these guys for hanging on with him?

BOLDUAN: So we weren't kidding when we said the last debate was critical. And we're definitely not (inaudible) we say, this one is double, triple, quadruple critical.

BERMAN: Critical like capital C squared.

BOLDUAN: Thanks, guys. Coming up for us, this was clearly a big blow to the Donald Trump campaign. But is there more? A former producer with his show 'The Apprentice' says there's far worse out there.

And Ted Cruz, Trump's former rival, who just endorsed him before the first debate is now asking why, oh, why, is this all coming out now? That's ahead with our special coverage, we will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: All right. John Berman here with Kate Bolduan. We are live at Washington University in St. Louis along with the best political band in television.

BOLDUAN: In the world.

BERMAN: In the world. All right. We are getting ready for the second presidential debate, what is a make-or-break presidential debate, really at this point for Donald Trump after the release of that tape on Friday where he makes vulgar, crude comments. Joining us to discuss, what he needs to do going into the night?

We're here with Van Jones, CNN political commentator who worked for President Obama once in the White House. Kayleigh Mcenany, a CNN political commentator and Donald Trump supporter. Jeffrey Lord is former political director in the Reagan White House. He supports Donald Trump. Amanda Carpenter is a CNN political commentator, former communications director for Senator Ted Cruz. I don't think she supports Donald Trump. I want to say that out there, right now.

AMANDA CARPENTER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: We will see. Things changed. People evolve.

BERMAN: Jeffrey Lord, Donald Trump has been on Twitter this morning.

JEFFREY LORD, REAGAN WHITE HOUSE FORMER POLITICAL DIRECTOR: uh-oh.

BERMAN: I know.

LORD: Here we go.

BERMAN: And he's been talking about Republicans. Republicans in some case who've been fleeing, you know, denying their support for Trump or not supporting him enough. This is one of his tweets. Tremendous support except for some Republican leadership. Thank you. So as we head into this second presidential debate, Donald Trump isn't just running against Hillary Clinton. He is now very publicly, vocally, at least on Twitter, running against the leadership of his own party. What does that get him?

LORD: You know, it gets in votes. This is to borrow inevitable Reagan reference. The Reagan quote that these were the fraternal order, Republicans. That they saw the Republican party as a fraternity as supposed to a political party with ideas. And this is exactly the thing that -- kind of thing that drove Reagan crazy. And he's quite right. I would perhaps update it to say linguine spine Republicans who flee at the slightest sign.

BERMAN: Is this slightest sign?

LORD: Well, this is not just about Donald Trump. This is about dealing with issues on Capitol Hill. And they do exactly the same kind of thing. Say, we're going to do this. And then they get there and they, well, you know, you can't do it this way, you can't do it that way, maybe we will not do it at all.

BOLDUAN: Kayleigh -- sorry. Amanda, does this win Donald Trump votes? I mean, what we're seeing form reports of talking points coming out that it's now all-out war that Trump's campaign is saying to their surrogates like go after them, we didn't need those Republicans to win the primary, we don't need them now. But by definition, don't you need more people than who got you elected in the primary?

CARPENTER: Yes, and he's still fighting the ghosts of the GOP primary. Listen, the leader of never Trump is really Donald Trump himself. He has made it so hard for people to fall in line behind him. You're not a leader if people aren't willing to follow you. And this is a problem wit how he ran the primary campaign. Yes, he did win the nomination but it wasn't with the majority of the vote. He run with a small plurality and was able to steam-rolled through it.

Along the way, he campaign in such a nasty manner, he didn't bring people in along the fold. And he thinks that by running against everyone, he can still win but that means he's just stands alone. We're going into the second debate of the general election. We have people fleeing from him. If he can't bring people into the fold by now, it's done. If he wants to do this on his own, he will. But he's very much alone on stage tonight.

BERMAN: Kayleigh, we were on TV together Friday night just after this news broke. And I could see this got you. And you said that Donald Trump needs to humble himself before the American people. And that was before the videotape release. So two-part question here. Was that humbling himself before the American people? And how much more or differently does he need to do it tonight?

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I thought the video apology was a very good start. He said he's going to be a better man tomorrow. He specifically said he regrets the comment and he apologizes for it. And for me, that's good. I forgive him for that. But I think tonight, he needs to go a step further. He needs to stand before the American people and do exactly what Mike Pence said, show these people your heart. You know, you had Giuliani come on air today and say, you know, Trump was embarrassed by this, say that.

BERMAN: Prove it.

MCENANY: Say that to the American people and ask for their forgiveness because that goes a long way. Truly humbling yourself goes a long way and I think if he does that, he can turn this around.

BOLDUAN: Kayleigh, at any point during this episode, have you questioned your support for him during this past 48 hours?

MCENANY: I thought, when it happened, I was very disappointed. I was angry, I was disappointed. And I said I can tell a lot about someone when their feet are to the fire. And he put out the video apology and for me that was enough. But for other people, you've got to convince them to come around 180. And it's going to take more than the video apology and it's going to take humbling himself on that stage tonight.

BERMAN: So Van, just tell viewers, you know -- think we come (inaudible). Now we're going to get to WikiLeaks in a moment here, stop the rise (inaudible). But Van Jones, what if Donald Trump does -- what is obviously the political expedient thing and maybe he means it, what if he does come out and give an abject apology at the beginning of the debate tonight? Politically speaking, is it enough? VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, you know, it will not be enough for some and it will not be enough for a lot of people. Let's not forget, this is a guy who says he's the law and order candidate. He came onto the national stage politically a decade-plus ago talking about five young black boys who had committed allegedly a sexual assault. It turned out, they were completely innocent. But he attacked them and attacked theme and whipped up hatred against them. They've been proven innocent, never apologized.

Then he says Mexicans are sexual -- some immigrant Mexicans are sexual assaulters, they're rapists, never takes that back. It turns out, he is confessing to sexual assault himself as his own words. So hold on a second, you start your career saying that these young black boys are sexual assaulters, saying Mexicans are sexual assaulters. It turns out, you're confessing to sexual assault. So you're the super predator. You are the super predator.

CARPENTER: Here's one thing. I think we really need to pay attention to this. In his video apology, he said I apologize for things I have said and done. I hope to God someone ask me tonight, what did you do? Because everyone knows about the comments. What did you do that you're apologizing for, Donald Trump?

JONES: And I want to say one more thing. If, in fact, he was just joking around and had not sexually assaulted women, I can go up to Donald Trump and grab his crotch and try to kiss him. If I do, I got to jail. It's a crime; it's called sexual assault. If, in fact, he did not do that because he's just joking around, he should have said that in the apology. So what you have is an implicit admission. Now that is a lot to get over with one apology.

LORD: You know, there's one thing that we're missing here. It is gospel in Republican circles that any Republican nominee is going to get to this point in the campaign and have the media pounce on something. For Mitt Romney, if you recall, it was the steel workers --

BOLDUAN: This is not a media creation. These are words that came out of his mouth, Jeffrey.

LORD: No. I understand. I understand. But what I'm saying to you, to the degree that it is played up, Republicans believe fervently that anybody who had been the Republican nominee would have faced some similar blow --

CARPENTERS: But there are things that you could just (inaudible). When it came to Mitt Romney and the binders full of women, I know where you're going, you can defend that. You can say Mitt Romney is a good man. I know that's not his character, that's not what he meant because you know his underlying character.

This is the difference between Mitt Romney and Donald Trump. You cannot deny Donald Trump's words. You cannot defend this man knowing that he has a long-life history of saying things like this and acting on this impulse. So it's not just women that Van Jones pointed out. He has no boundaries when it comes to respect, control and for a commander in chief to have that kind of behavior, people have this serious questions about it and that is the difference because a man like Donald Trump and Mitt Romney.

LORD: Amanda, I assure you, if Ted Cruz were the nominee at this moment, there would be something that they would be going after.

CARPENTER: (Inaudible) because I've never heard him say anything remotely like that.

[crosstalk]

LORD: He wouldn't say (inaudible) define something else.

BOLDUAN: But you know what, the difference is here though. This isn't media blowing out of proportion, this is members of his own party fleeing. That's how bad it is.

JONES: It never happened before in the history of the Republic even according to you, sir.

LORD: Not so. It happened with Barry Goldwater.

[crosstalk]

BERMAN: Not nearly as many senators --

Bolduan: Not nearly --

BERMAN: -- (inaudible) you have to go back to Teddy Roosevelt when they walked out with him.

CARPENTER: But he's promised to stand alone. Let him stand alone tonight. He wants a campaign about everyone in the party, go ahead and do it, Donald Trump. See where it takes you.

BERMAN: All right, guys, hang on. Stick around. I think we have some more to talk about on this subject right after the break.

That, plus, that is Trump force one. Is that Donald Trump's plane?

BOLDUAN: You think that probably is Donald Trump's plane landing in St. Louis as we speak. That is correct. Donald Trump's plane. That's what (inaudible) we're going to go with it

BERMAN: We're going to go with it

BOLDUAN: Donald Trump's plane landing in St. Louis right now. We will continue to watch it.

BERMAN: All right. That, plus, Hillary Clinton, what does she do on this debate stage? She too faces some questions about some revelation of things she said in the past.

BOLDUAN: The WikiLeaks.

BERMAN: That's next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLDUAN: We are live in St. Louis at Washington University. We are now hours away from tonight's big presidential debate here in St. Louis.

BERMAN: Let's bring back our political panel now. Joining us also, we should say David Gergen, CNN senior political analyst and former presidential advisor to Nixon, Ford, Reagan and Clinton.

BOLDUAN: Let's talk about one thing that hasn't got a lot of talk recently. Van Jones, I'm looking at right at you. Wikileaks and the latest document dump. Private conversations of Hillary Clinton. Hillary Clinton, the documents allegedly show, her taking on the different tone in private and public, with big issues like free trade, big issues like Wall Street.

Here's the quote sticking out to everybody, "My dream is a hemispheric common market with open trade and open borders." A lot of progressives will have a problem with this. How does he have to explain this now?

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Three things, first of all, we don't know for sure this is real or not because, you know, the people who dumped this out are Russians.

BOLDUAN: If it wasn't, I'm sure that Clinton's campaign -- that's the rules.

JONES: First of all, we don't want to give the Russians this much credit. It could be true or false. As long as they are hacking us, there's my anti-Russian smack. Number two, she was talking about it, the best I can understand, a common market with regard to clean energy.

That's a more narrow thing than just common market overall. But number three, progressives are not surprised to hear that Hillary Clinton may not be an added Elizabeth Warren-style fair trader. And it is a tough pill to allow for progressive Democrats to feel that she moved over tactically and not authentically.

That said, I think most progressives would say we would wrath very a Hillary Clinton who we can push and to move with than to have a Donald Trump that we don't know where he's coming from.

BERMAN: If it has come out primaries, Van, likewise, there are comments in there for Wall Street bankers being the smartest people and should help to figure out how to regulate themselves. This is what is coming up in the primary.

JONES: My wing of the party hates this stuff. This is what we hate about that whole wing. It's what we have frustrations with when it comes to Hillary Clinton. At the same time, as we say it's a binary choice and people are wise to say, we're going to have to deal with Hillary Clinton. And -- I'm going to tell you this, certainly surprising, the minute this thing is over the Sanders/Elizabeth Warren wing in the Senate will lay down a gauntlet over this stuff and there's a fight inside our party over this trade stuff.

BOLDUAN: This kind of cuts both ways, though. Rudy Giuliani was on TV earlier today and more than happy to bring up the Wikileaks document dump. We have a sound bite from that. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUDY GIULIANI, TRUMP SUPPORTER: One thing he's not is what came across in Wikileaks and that is two people. Hillary Clinton actually specifically described that she's two different people, to the financial people that will give her millions of dollars, she's on their side and a big part of the government. But she stills them she has to pretend to everyone else that she isn't.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Right. If you follow that line of thinking, are you hoping at this moment that Donald Trump is exactly that a different person in private than he is in public. With the latest episode, if he's the same person in both places, he's someone that likes to grab someone else's private parts.

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think he's one person today and a different person 11 years ago. He needs to explain that. But what this Wikileaks thing should do is scare every Bernie Sanders millennial that their worst fear about Hillary Clinton was right.

She said before these big banks, it's important to have a public position and a private position. I want to know the person who I'm putting my name next to on the ballot. I want to know that person is going to do the things they are saying on the campaign trail. You can't believe that about Hillary Clinton after these leaks.

BERMAN: We are talking about Mike Pence. Let's bring up someone else. He put out a statement yesterday where he said he's waiting to hear -- he looks forward to the opportunity for Donald Trump to speak to the American people. He didn't say, yay, Donald Trump, I mean, this was a tepid response from him right now. Doesn't he need to step up?

JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think he will step up at the right point. Look, he condemned the remarks. We all condemn the remarks. He's the vice presidential candidate, you got to support the principals and the ticket and he's part of the ticket.

So I don't really have any doubt. I just don't think Mike Pence is a cagey customer here. He's not Hillary Clinton character and temperamental lost. He is just going to say what he thinks and stick with it and be a good man of faith. I have no doubt about that.

BOLDUAN: David, I want to get your take on this. If Donald Trump is coming out basically saying it's back to the beginning, I'm taking on the Republican party all by myself. I don't need you guys. Does Mike Pence need to go against the Republican Party?

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: No, he needs a walk a careful line, which is what he's doing. He's on a tight rope because if goes after Donald Trump too heavily, all of the Trump supporters will turn against him and it will harm him in the House and harm in his future career badly.

But if he wraps himself around Donald Trump, he's got the opposite problem. So if he were to become the nominee and that is still not out of the question. If Donald Trump has a bad debate tonight and it is really clearly over, there's going to be even more pressure on him to step down.

BERMAN: Let's use that as a tease right now. Is it possible that Donald Trump will not be the Republican nominee in 30 days? We'll discuss that and much, much more. Stick around. A lot more going on here live at Washington University in St. Louis. Don't go anywhere.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLDUAN: Welcome back to St. Louis, everybody. Since Donald Trump's video surfaced Friday, the number of high profile Republicans rebuking Donald Trump has continued to grow.

Senator McCain, Condoleezza Rice, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Carly Fiorina, just to name a few, who have jumped ship very recently. Donald Trump has been firing back on Twitter criticizing GOP leader calling them hypocrites in one tweet.

BERMAN: Back now with us, David Gergen, and also want to bring in Steve Cortes, a Donald Trump surrogate and a member of the Hispanic Advisory Council, and also Matt Lewis, a CNN political commentator, senior contributor to "The Daily Caller" and author of --

MATT LEWIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: "Too Dumb To Fail."

BERMAN: The Republican Party would ultimately has to come to play here and Matt, along that line, we just showed that tweet of Donald Trump going after the Republican leadership there. He did it in several tweets right now. What state does that leave your party in?

LEWIS: It's chaos. It's a mess right now. Last night there were reports that Reince Priebus and the RNC were going to a triage campaign.

[14:40:07]Where they are going to focus on winning the Senate, hang Donald Trump out to dry. Apparently the reports are erroneous. So I don't know what's happening right now, but you have a party that is divided against itself, the Republican Party. It's unbelievable.

BOLDUAN: You have never been won over by Trump yourself, to say the very least. I mean, what do you think of -- I don't even know if you can call it a strategy, but what do you think of what Trump is doing today, which is now going back to where he began, which is being at war with party leadership? Is there advantage for him here? LEWIS: Well, I think it's a desperation move, right? So the onus is on the candidate, in my opinion to build consensus, to build bridges and after a bloody primary, a lot of times primaries end up messy, people who hurt feelings, the candidate goes out to mend fences, brings people on board. That's the candidate's job.

In this case Donald Trump is doing the opposite of that, but I think maybe he feels like it is his last effort. So he has just gin up the base. It's us against them. It's the outsiders against the establishment.

BERMAN: That is the Trump plane now arriving here in St. Louis. The earlier plane we told you was Mr. Trump. That was just a teaser. This is Trump's plane filled with his advisors and the RNC Chair Reince Priebus. Steve, you were about to say?

STEVE CORTES, HISPANIC ADVISORY COUNCIL MEMBER: I think it's much more than just a ploy and everything about this campaign has been unconventional. In terms of how he's positioned himself right with other Republicans, I think this is important. This was not so much a candidacy as it is a movement.

It's not so much Democrat against Republican. I think in terms of Trump, it is largely America against Washington. So I'm not shocked that Washington insiders, including Republicans, are the first to bail at any sign of trouble. Much less significant sign of trouble.

I think what is going on here is the reason Donald Trump is resonating with regular Americans is they are rejecting the crony capitalist rigged system that exists only for the benefit of Washington, D.C. to the detriment on the rest of America.

BOLDUAN: As John pointed out, David, Reince Priebus is on the plane with Donald Trump. We don't know the seating arrangements yet, to say the very least, but what does that say?

GERGEN: Well, I think it's a show. He probably accepted it earlier, but they put the pressure to at least symbolically show they were together. But what is Donald Trump's play here to call it a civil war within the party and to make it the people versus the elites.

I must say, when I woke up yesterday, I thought he was in real trouble. After talking to some Trump people over the last 24 hours and getting the mood and seeing what happened in front of his headquarters yesterday with that sea of supporters out there.

I think a lot of Trump supporters make stick. His problem is how he's getting in front of beyond debates. But the Trump supporters look like they're sticking.

BERMAN: We actually have a tweet, Kellyanne Conway, the campaign manager made a point of taking a selfie with Donald Trump in the car on the way to the airport to fly to St. Louis. It says, "You know, Donald Trump and I earlier in motorcade en route to fly to St. Louis for debate. Photo credit Melania Trump." So there are 18 different things going on in that picture. First of all, Kellyanne Conway saying I'm still with Donald Trump. Number two, it's saying Melania Trump is still with Donald Trump up to the point where she took the picture there. But David, does that speak to the point you're trying to make? That at least his inner circle is on board?

GERGEN: I think his inner circle is on board, but he has to be concerned about the leaks in the inner circle. Maggie Haberman, about how isolated and lonely and angry, the king of the castle painted a picture from inside. I think it was not helpful to him.

BOLDUAN: Real quick, Steve, I mean, if you follow the logic where Donald Trump is right now, which is I'm at war with the party. In his tweet he said, you know, watch their polls and watch their elections go down and lose. Do you want to see Republicans lose?

CORTES: No, of course, not. I think that Donald Trump, we had a bad 24 hours clearly and he has a lot of wood to chop tonight clearly and so it's a high bar. It's a high hurdle that he needs to get off. He is convinced women voters that he has their best interest of hearts and that he has a plan for growth and security that's going to benefit all Americans including women.

If he does that, it will be wonderful for the Republican Party in general, but he cannot beholden to party elites and his whole campaign has been a revolt at the ballot box --

BOLDUAN: Doesn't he need that party --

LEWIS: This is mutually assured distraction. We think Donald Trump is probably going to lose and now he's going to take down Republican senators with him by attacking them. This could be a much more disastrous than Republicans even thought with Donald Trump.

BERMAN: All right, guys, stick around, we'll talk about -- Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton, they are both on the ground here in St. Louis. They both could be headed here to Washington University shortly for a walk through at the debate site. Standby for that.

BOLDUAN: It's debate day in America once again.

BERMAN: It absolutely is.

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[11:48:45]

BOLDUAN: There is a growing chorus of GOP notables right now calling for Mike Pence to replace Donald Trump at the top of the Republican ticket or honestly to drop altogether and just leave Trump hanging.

BERMAN: So Pence issued an especially tepid statement yesterday, it condemned Trump's remarks and voiced zero outright support for his running mate, but Mike Pence did attend a Trump/Pence fundraiser last night in Rhode Island. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Governor, should Mr. Trump withdraw? Governor, should Mr. Trump withdraw? Will you be staying on the ticket?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: You can see the kind of questions that Mike Pence is going to face today and every day going forward. CNN's Chris Frates is at the Pence home in Indiana. What are you seeing, Chris?

CHRIS FRATES, CNN INVESTIGATIONS CORRESPONDENT: Hey, John. You're exactly right. There's a lot of talk, particularly among the GOP establishment, about will Mike Pence get off this ticket? The thinking here is he's the conservative anchor. He's the heart and soul of this ticket.

If he were to step aside, that puts huge pressure on Donald Trump. Maybe he would step aside. Republicans could choose a nominee who is not Donald Trump although that looks like it's a pipe dream at this point.

I put that exact question to the Trump campaign, a senior advisor told me there are no discussions with the governor, with his senior team about Mike Pence leaving the ticket.

[14:50:06]Now, of course, he did cancel that big event in Wisconsin with House Speaker Paul Ryan yesterday. So people were asking this question, but his team says, look, he went to a fundraiser halfway across the country in Rhode Island last night.

I talked to a Pence aide who is with the governor last night, he raised half a million dollars. He talked to the donors, all those who RSVP'd showed up despite the news dogging Donald Trump.

He made a full-throated defense of the Trump/Mike Pence ticket saying it's important for those donors to continue to support the ticket and get out to vote.

And they say look at what he's doing next week, tomorrow he's in Charlotte, North Carolina. They are going to put him in swing states like Virginia, Iowa, Nebraska, and tonight, John, he's watching the debate right here behind me at the residence, and tomorrow he's going to get right on the campaign trail -- John.

BOLDUAN: Yes, a whole lot can happen before tomorrow in those travel plans and they can change as we saw over the weekend. Great to see you, Chris. Thank you so much.

BERMAN: All right, coming up, we have only seen or have we only seen part one of the Trump tape saga? There are reports that there are more videotapes this time from the archives of the old show "The Apprentice." What effect could the, what we don't know yet, have on the race going forward?

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BERMAN: All right, six hours to go until the big debate here at Washington University in St. Louis. Yes, Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump are the leading players in this drama. But there are some supporting cast members I've got to say who are just fascinating to discuss right now.

BOLDUAN: And they deserve equal amounts of attention. Joining us now is Glenn Thrush. He is the chief political correspondent for "Politico" and all-around good guy.

Glenn, Ted Cruz, he tweeted something out this morning that has us scratching our heads a little bit. He's tweeting this out, NBC had taped 11 years and "The Apprentice" producers say they have more and worse.

So why not release it in 2015, in March, why wait until October? What is he trying to get at here?

GLENN THRUSH, CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, "POLITICO": I think what he's trying to say is why did he release it two days before I decided to endorse Donald Trump?

BOLDUAN: Worst timed endorsement ever?

THRUSH: That's right. It's kind of like one of those unfortunate decisions in a hotel bar very, very late at night. I talked with Cruz on the eve of the Republican National Convention and he was talking to me about holding on principle. That he wasn't going to go for Donald Trump.

I think against the advice of some people probably in his orbit. He decided to do that to be sort of a party player. I think he's regretting that.

BERMAN: So with this tweet, he's saying, I would have won if this stuff would have come out before. It's not pulling his endorsement but it's complaining about the process? I don't get it.

THRUSH: It's called trumpianism. It's like when you have not won, you blame external factors. Look, between one another, Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio made one fantastic Republican candidate. But the problem is they split their vote and Trump got in. I don't think you can whine about it after the fact.

BOLDUAN: What do you think of the other supporting player that is fascinating and what his next move will be is Paul Ryan. What is his play here? It's been a difficult road for him all along and now what?

THRUSH: I think Ryan, as we know, Ryan essentially told Trump not to show up at his doorstep in Wisconsin this weekend, right? And I think he's in a particularly difficult position because he is the one who got to stay on the stage. Everyone can do what they want as big players. Ryan, I think though, that is his benefit. He's a guy who has, I think, governed on principle and he is kind of the intellectual force of the conservative movement. So he has that to go to. I think a lot of these other political players don't have that.

BERMAN: He was told to remain silent in the next coming days. Glenn Thrush, great to have you. Thank you so much.

BOLDUAN: Coming up for us, Donald Trump hints he'll bring up Bill Clinton's scandals, past at the debate. So how will, how should Hillary Clinton respond to that on the stage? You can be sure they are prepared for it. We'll discuss.

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