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THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER
Hack the Election?; CNN Poll: Clinton Wins Debate. Aired 4- 4:30p ET
Aired September 27, 2016 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: I do not mean to be braggadocios, but THE LEAD is starting right now.
Donald Trump seeming to play defense the day after the first debate, blaming the mic, blaming the moderator, blaming everything but the fact that he didn't seem to have adequately prepared.
Trump had the momentum. Did he just step on it?
Hillary Clinton reminding the world of the time Donald Trump allegedly called Miss Universe Miss Piggy for gaining too much weight. Her name? Alicia Machado. Today, she is practically Clinton's running mate.
Hack the election. The homeland security chief today talking about new concerns that foreign governments could try to tamper with the most sacred part of our democracy.
Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to THE LEAD. I am Jake Tapper.
More than 80 million viewers, a record, watched last night's presidential debate. Pundits and political observers of all stripes seemed to reached consensus, suggesting that Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton came out on top. All the time she spent in prep seemed to show.
[16:00:00]
Her team pleased that she seemed able to bait Donald Trump with a series of attacks on his record. Trump, for his part, seems to be acknowledging today that Clinton walked away the winner, blaming the microphone and the debate moderator for his performance. Next time, he says, he may hit Clinton harder.
We will begin today with Jim Acosta, who is right outside Trump Tower, a few blocks away from us.
Jim, Donald Trump just announced a huge fund-raising haul.
JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Jake.
Donald Trump, the Trump campaign, they're trying to offer up evidence that he won last night's debate, saying in a tweet just a few moments ago that in the last 24 hours Donald Trump says they have raised $13 million, even though at times during his first face-off with Hillary Clinton he looked unprepared.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ACOSTA (voice-over): The day after his fiery debate with Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump is declaring victory with a triumphant tweet, "The number one trend on Twitter right now is #TrumpWon. Thank you."
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It was a fascinating period of time. And I think we did very well.
ACOSTA: But he is also making excuses, blaming a bad microphone and more for getting in the way of his message.
TRUMP: I don't want to believe in conspiracy theories, of course, but it was much lower than hers. And it was crackling. And she didn't have that problem. That was, to me, a bad problem, because you have a bum mic, a mic, it's not exactly good.
ACOSTA: Coming off a night of delivering her prepared one-liners, Clinton had a zinger for that too.
HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Anybody who complains about the microphone is not having a good night.
ACOSTA: Trump, like many of his supporters the morning after, also complained about moderator Lester Holt.
TRUMP: I give him a C, C-plus. I thought he was OK. I thought he was fine. He was nothing outstanding. I thought he gave me very unfair questions at the end.
ACOSTA: Problem is, his own campaign manager praised Holt right after the debate.
KELLYANNE CONWAY, TRUMP CAMPAIGN MANAGER: I thought Lester Holt did a great job as the moderator under tough circumstances.
ACOSTA: But Trump had his share of tough moments as Clinton repeatedly baited her opponent.
CLINTON: Just join the debate by saying more crazy things.
ACOSTA: On his refusal to release his tax returns.
CLINTON: The only years that anybody has ever seen were a couple of years when he had to turn them over to state authorities when he was trying to get a casino license, and they showed he didn't pay any federal income tax.
TRUMP: That makes me smart.
ACOSTA: Clinton returned to the issue today in North Carolina.
CLINTON: And I got to that point where I said, well, maybe he's paid zero. He said that makes him smart.
(LAUGHTER)
CLINTON: Now, if not paying taxes makes him smart, what does that make all the rest of us?
ACOSTA: On Iraq, Trump falsely insisted once again he opposed the war before it with began.
CLINTON: Donald supported the invasion of Iraq.
TRUMP: Wrong.
CLINTON: That has absolutely been proved.
TRUMP: Wrong.
ACOSTA: The Trump campaign is offering different explanations for the GOP contender's past claim that climate change is a hoax created by the Chinese government to hurt U.S. factories, with his campaign manager saying one thing.
CONWAY: He believes that climate change is naturally occurring.
ACOSTA: And his running mate saying another.
GOV. MIKE PENCE (R-IN), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, look, there is no question that the activities that take place in this country and in countries around the world have some impact on the environment and some impact on climate.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ACOSTA: Now, as for his tax returns, Trump did tell CNN after the debate he does pay something when it comes to paying federal income taxes. But he did not respond when asked what tax rate he is paying right now, Jake.
And Rudy Giuliani, one of his top advisers, was suggesting last night to reporters that perhaps Trump should skip the last two presidential debates. No word from the Trump campaign as to whether or not that is actually under consideration -- Jake.
TAPPER: All right, Jim Acosta, thank you so much.
If you watched last night, then you know, like a starving school of trout, last night, Donald Trump took the bait over and over and over again. And at the end of the debate, Hillary Clinton cast one last line into the lake, and Mr. Trump bit.
At the end of that hook, Alicia Machado, the 1996 Miss Universe Pageant winner, whose weight gain Trump at the time publicly criticized. While Clinton this morning was preparing to roll out a new Web video featuring Machado's sad tale in which Trump called her Miss Piggy and Miss Housekeeper, and her campaign was arranging a conference call for reporters to hear her story for themselves, Trump was on that Algonquin Round Table called "FOX & Friends," where he called Machado difficult and -- quote -- "the absolute worst" for gaining -- quote -- "a massive amount of weight."
CNN senior Washington correspondent Jeff Zeleny is in New York.
And, Jeff, I don't know why Mr. Trump is talking about this. Clinton wants Trump to continue to attack a Latino woman for gaining weight. Inexplicably, Mr. Trump seems only too happy to cooperate.
JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Jake, indeed.
If debates are about memorable moments, that certainly was one. And it might become even more memorable because the Clinton campaign is now, I am told, considering making it into a television ad.
[16:05:01]
Trump was trying to expand his appeal to college-educated women, but comments like that complicate that considerably, one more sign the planning by Clinton and her staff appeared to pay off.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CLINTON: Did anybody see that debate last night?
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
ZELENY (voice-over): There is a new spring in her step tonight.
CLINTON: Oh, yes. One down, two to go.
ZELENY: Flying to a rally in North Carolina, Hillary Clinton reveling in the strong reviews from her first face-to-face meeting with Donald Trump.
CLINTON: You should know by now, when I set my mind on something, I keep going. I don't quit, whatever the static, whatever the incoming is, and that's what I will do for the American people.
ZELENY: The most watched debate in history, more than 80 million viewers on television alone, came just in time for Clinton. She is locked in a tight race with Trump nationally and on critical battlegrounds.
On the campaign trail today, Clinton picked up where she left off on stage, from preparing for the debate and presidency.
CLINTON: He made it very clear that he didn't prepare for that debate. I did prepare. And I will tell you something else I prepared for. I prepared to be president of the United States. And I think that's good.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
ZELENY: To her charge that he has built his businesses by stiffing the little guy.
CLINTON: Stiffing people, dishwashers, painters, plumbers, architects, glass installers, marble installers, drapery installers across America.
ZELENY: But it was this exchange about his treatment of women that is still reverberating.
CLINTON: And one of the worst things he said was about a woman in a beauty contest. He called this woman "Miss Piggy." Then he called her "Miss Housekeeping," because she was Latina.
Donald, she has a name.
TRUMP: Where did you find this? Where did you find this?
CLINTON: Her name is Alicia Machado.
TRUMP: Where did you find this?
CLINTON: And she has become a U.S. citizen, and you can bet...
TRUMP: Oh, really?
CLINTON: ... she's going to vote this November.
TRUMP: OK, good.
ZELENY: Alicia Machado, who grew up in Venezuela, won the Miss Universe Pageant in 1996, the Clinton campaign inviting her to join a conference call to talk about Trump.
ALICIA MACHADO, FORMER MISS UNIVERSE: For me, these elections are like a bad dream, watching this guy again doing stupid things and stupid comments.
ZELENY: Two decades ago, Trump shamed her for gaining weight. Today, he made no apologies.
TRUMP: She gained a massive amount of weight, and it was -- it was a real problem.
ZELENY: Advisers to Clinton believe Trump's effort to win over independent and moderate women was set back by frequent outbursts and interruptions.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: I do not say that.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: I do not say that.
ZELENY: A post-debate CNN/ORC poll shows 62 percent of viewers thought Clinton won the debate, while 27 percent said Trump did. But with 42 days to go and the second debate less than two weeks away, Clinton made clear the fight was just beginning.
CLINTON: This election is going to be close. They all are these days.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZELENY: Now, Democrats across the country fanned out to amplify this message. Bill Clinton was in Ohio. Tim Kaine was in Florida, even Joe Biden in Pennsylvania.
But, Jake, we're learning today that President Obama is about to weigh in even more into the campaign. He says he will appear in television ads for Hillary Clinton -- Jake.
TAPPER: All right, Jeff Zeleny, thank you so much.
And be sure to tune Into "ANDERSON COOPER 360" this evening on CNN. He will interview, guess who, former Miss Universe Alicia Machado. It's her first live interview since Hillary Clinton brought her name up during the presidential debate. You can see it only on CNN 8:00 p.m. Eastern.
Let's bring in our political panel for their reactions to the fireworks last night.
We have with us former special adviser to President Obama Van Jones and Donald Trump supporter Kayleigh McEnany.
Let me, first of all, just one note on that poll. The poll skewed towards Democrats because CNN's poll suggested that more Democrats than Republicans watched the debate last night. So, their numbers are not representative of the electorate as a whole.
Kayleigh, why is he talking about her weight? Why? Can I give you the answer? This is what the answer is. Hillary Clinton -- I don't know why you're talking about a beauty contest 20 years ago. I want to talk about keeping this country safe from terrorism.
KAYLEIGH MCENANY, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, that should have been the answer. You're right. He gave the story legs.
That being said, let's make very clear this is a third-party hearsay situation. The campaign has denied that he said these words directly to her. If we want to descend into third-party hearsay, we can look at Ronald Kessler's book that talk about the Secret Service officers who once said good morning, Mrs. Clinton and she said, beep off.
We can get into third-party hearsay, but I don't think she wants to go there.
TAPPER: Those are off the record. There is a difference between an on-the-record and unnamed sources.
MCENANY: Well, I'm pretty sure these are unsubstantiated claims, just like Ronald Kessler's reporting of third-party witnesses are unsubstantiated claims.
So, we can descend into that. But I agree with you. Donald Trump needs to say, let's talk about real issues that affect everyday voters.
TAPPER: Van, is there any risk of this being a little too cute? In other words, this is not organic, the way that the Khan family dispute and Donald Trump's feud with that Gold Star family was a little bit more organic, although they did speak at the Democratic Convention. The fight with them was more organic.
[16:10:10]
This is, oh, by the way, let me tell you about this woman and then the next day this whole rollout of this Clinton-Kaine-Machado ticket.
VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It would have been too cute, had he not helped it so much.
Part of the problem is, you have to know, if you're going to go debate Hillary Clinton, look what she did to Bernie Sanders twice. She comes out with something that's never been in an ad, never been in a speech and she hits you with it. And you have got to be able to respond well on your feet.
The reality is last night, he did not respond well. He just started spinning around and talking about, well, I was going to talk about your momma, but I didn't. And he just looked crazy. And I think that hurt him last night.
I think a lot of women feel that there is something about Donald Trump when it comes to these beauty pageants, when it comes to women's bodies, when it comes to women's looks that's just distasteful. And she was able to reintroduce that concern last night. But the big problem is, he is helping her do it.
TAPPER: Yes. That's inexplicable.
Kayleigh, take a listen to Donald Trump talking about his taxes last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: Maybe he doesn't want the American people, all of you watching tonight, to know that he's paid nothing in federal taxes, because the only years that anybody's ever seen were a couple of years when he had to turn them over to state authorities when he was trying to get a casino license, and they showed he didn't pay any federal income tax.
TRUMP: That makes me smart.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: "That makes me smart was his response," paying no taxes, federal income taxes at least.
How do you think that theoretically plays with undecided voters?
MCENANY: Well, he has paid federal income taxes. He's undergone several audits. He survived them all. He confirmed this morning he has paid federal income taxes.
TAPPER: But how do you know? How do you know that? Just because he said it?
(CROSSTALK)
MCENANY: He said it. And he survived a dozen audits. And if he didn't survive those audits, he would be in jail right now, not running for president.
TAPPER: No, no, you can legally not pay taxes, the way the general electorate does all the time.
MCENANY: Sure.
(CROSSTALK)
MCENANY: To Donald Trump's point, that makes you smart. If you take advantage of the tax code in a way that is within the bounds of the law, that's what all Americans do when we take deductions and when we use loopholes to our advantage. That makes you smart. I absolutely agree with him on that point.
TAPPER: I don't know about you, Van. I never try to pay no taxes. I try to take deductions.
MCENANY: But he has paid taxes.
TAPPER: You don't -- we don't know that. He's never released his returns. We have no idea. The only return we have ever seen...
MCENANY: He's survived a dozen audits. He has paid taxes within the bounds of the law.
TAPPER: No, I am not saying that he's ever violated the law. I am saying maybe he hasn't paid his taxes, completely in accordance with the law.
Van.
JONES: So, here is the difference.
It's very obvious with Hillary Clinton that she didn't maximize all of her options in her tax filings because she probably didn't want to be in this situation.
The reality is, our tax code is a mess. The reality is, if you got enough money, enough lawyers and enough accountants, you can figure out a way to pay nothing.
I don't think it's -- and maybe it's smart to do it, but it's certainly not smart to brag about it. And I think that there is a reason that we're talking about this right now.
I think most people don't have enough money to pay the lawyers and the accountants to get out of this mess, and they really resent people who do. And I think he played right into that.
MCENANY: But this isn't to his favor. Like, we all understand on this set right now that there are loopholes and deductions, that our systems encourage investors to take risks, because those risks create jobs, they're better for the economy, and the rewards for the person taking the risk is that it is a tax deduction.
We all know that, having studied the tax code and having learned this. But explaining that is a very hard thing to do.
JONES: Yes.
TAPPER: Let me ask you a question, Kayleigh. What about the idea of him saying -- I don't -- I keep giving you advice. What about the idea of saying, I am the master of this insane, complicated tax code, I haven't paid taxes -- I have no idea in he's paid federal taxes or not.
I have -- in complete accordance with the law, I have paid this little for the last 10 years. This is exactly who you want in the White House cleaning up the tax code, so billionaires don't get away with it, like I have, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
There's a way to...
MCENANY: Absolutely. I completely agree. That would be the right way to respond. That would be a very good answer. And thanks for giving him tips for the next debate.
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: ... writing this down. These are suggestions.
JONES: You're going to be his campaign manager.
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: No, no, no. I think that Kellyanne Conway is doing a great job.
Take a listen to Trump going after Hillary Clinton on her past support of the Trans-Pacific Partnership, the TPP trade deal.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: You called it the gold standard.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: You called it the gold standard of trade deals. You said it's the finest deal you've ever seen.
CLINTON: No.
TRUMP: And then you heard what I said about it, and all of a sudden you were against it. CLINTON: Well, Donald, I know you live in your own reality, but that
is not the facts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Now, the truth of the matter is, it probably had more to do with Bernie Sanders opposing the trade deal than Donald Trump opposing the trade deal. But his facts are right. She did call it the gold standard.
Van, are you concerned that we're so close to the election, and she still hasn't really found a compelling way to talk about how she cares about the jobs of these workers in Pennsylvania, and Ohio and Michigan?
JONES: This is why we are down in Ohio and this is why we're struggling in Pennsylvania, because the left wing of our party, before you even get to Trump, has a lot of heartburn and indigestion about NAFTA still.
And there is real pain there. And she represents a part of our party that has a different view of trade. And so she is still struggling with this.
What I will say, though, is that she is someone who I think last night demonstrated that her concern and commitment to ordinary people is beyond measure because she actually cared enough last night to come prepared. She talked about stuff that actually matters to real people from criminal justice, the family leave stuff -- all the stuff she talked about is real stuff. That is a sore spot for her and I'm not going to pretend that it's not.
But the reality is, last night, he was strong on that stuff, and then he faded. He was strong on that for 15 minutes and then he faded for almost an hour and a half.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Kayleigh, do you acknowledge that Hillary Clinton had a better debate than Donald Trump last night?
KAYLEIGH MCENANY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, not at all. I think he should have talked about e-mails more. That being said, I think I saw someone who is fighting for every day Americans, someone who resonates with every day Americans.
And on the other side, I saw a scripted politician who calculated her every word and looked like a mannequin. Honestly, this was scripted, first it's real. I think that a lot of viewers saw that and I think that that polls -- that's why the online polls which are not scientific, of course, he won with "TIME," with CNBC, with "Fortune Magazine".
TAPPER: Those Internet polls are nonsense. You know that, Kayleigh.
All right. Thanks, Van. Kayleigh, thank you. Appreciate it.
Be sure to tune in to CNN tomorrow night for a special town hall at the Fort Lee Army Post in Virginia. President Obama will answer questions posed by active servicemen and servicewomen, veterans, their families and myself. It all starts 9:00 p.m. Eastern, right here on CNN.
A CNN poll -- an actual poll, calling people up, asking them what they think -- shows Hillary Clinton won the debate but did her performance do anything to actually sway any voters her way? That story next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:20:30] TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD.
More than 80 million viewers tuned in last night to watch the presidential debate. But just how many of those watching had not already made up their minds about the election? And did any of those undecideds decide?
Joining us now to talk about it more, CNN senior political analyst David Gergen, CNN's senior political commentator David Axelrod.
Let's put aside who won or lost for one second. Does a debate really matter when it comes to who wins the election?
DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think this debate mattered because for Donald Trump to grow his vote to the point where he can overcome Hillary Clinton, he needs to get some of these college-educated white voters who have been resistant to him because they are worried about his temperament, they're worried about his mastery of the substance. Last night was an opportunity for him to make inroads with those voters and I think he took a big step backwards.
TAPPER: What do you think, David?
DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Typically, incumbent frontrunners go on to win the first debate and they go on to win the election, so we say it doesn't matter. But there have been at least two instances in history when a challenger has -- who was running behind was able to use television in the first debate to catapult ahead. The first was John Kennedy in 1960, famous debate with Richard Nixon. And secondly, I would argue that that same thing happened with Reagan against Carter in 1980. In both cases, they were challengers. They were very skillful and, by the way, they're very prepared when they walked in. And they did very well.
AXELROD: The Reagan analogy is really apt because Reagan, the fear about Reagan was that he was too extreme, maybe not knowledgeable, worldly enough in some ways to be president. And he completely disarmed those critics in that debate. Donald Trump didn't do that last night.
GERGEN: Exactly.
TAPPER: When you're on stage with an incumbent president, it's an opportunity to show that you are equal to that person.
GERGEN: Absolutely.
TAPPER: Do you think --
GERGEN: No, I don't think he -- he didn't get to that level. He continued to be himself instead of being more presidential, you know? It looked as -- when it started as if he may get there. But then he veered off into the bushes -- and never to return again.
AXELROD: David used an important word which is preparation. I thought going into this debate, if this guy can pull this off without actually preparing, he will be the most astonishing politician in history. And he's already proven he may be, so I was willing to give it a shot.
But it is so hard, Jake, to go up on that stage. It's the most pressureful stage in American politics. And the reason you prep is, it's very hard for the first time to face some of these questions that you're going to face. You want to go through scenarios, as she obviously did, and it really paid off for her and hurt him a lot.
GERGEN: I totally agree. I think his massive ego gets in the way of doing the kinds of things that are traditionally required of a candidate.
AXELROD: Or ADD. His staff said -- his staff said, well, you know, he doesn't like diving into briefing books. Guess what? Presidents sort of have to dive into briefing books. So, you know, that's not a very -- a very reassuring message.
GERGEN: I was there for -- part of the Reagan debate team in 1980 when we prepared him. I can tell you he bore down. We had him up against -- we put up someone to stand up against, David Stockman. First time, Stockman creamed him first time out. And we said, let's do it again, and we did it again and Reagan caught him. And Reagan said, I want to do it one more time.
AXELROD: Yes.
TAPPER: And the idea is to prepare for the zingers so that -- or for the attacks so that, when it comes, you can make your statement and pivot to what you want to talk about.
AXELROD: The first time you prep -- David can speak to this -- the first you prep, a candidate will do their instinctive thing. And then you show them the tape and said, this doesn't work.
TAPPER: Did that happen with Obama?
AXELROD: Oh, certainly. Every candidate, there is no candidate who can't stand some prep. And particularly when you are the president, you know, and you are -- we were able to show him tape from the first debate to the second debate last time. That was really important in terms of turning his performance around.
TAPPER: Did you see anything last night, Axe -- David, that Hillary Clinton may use in a commercial against him? $ AXELROD: Oh, my God. I think he was right. The temperament -- the
outbursts that went to his temperament. But I also thought you could string a great commercial together on him saying -- you know, rooting for the housing market to collapse was --
TAPPER: He said that was great business, yeah.
AXELROD: Not paying taxes is smart. And you know, he painted the portrait of the kind of out-of-touch plutocrat that really doesn't play well and that he somewhat avoided to this point. So, yes, think there is a spot in there.
GERGEN: There is a spot too in the Miss Universe stuff.
AXELROD: Yes.
GERGEN: But what's interesting, Jake, is today you can make big judgments about this, because who is on defense today and who is on offense?
[16:25:04] And it's the Clinton team is on offense. And they got him backed up on issue after issue that came out of that debate last night. The key is keeping them on defense. That's a good day for them when they can keep doing that.
AXELROD: The other thing that they did was obviously studied what got under his skin in those primary debates, like raising the fact that he got this inheritance or this --
TAPPER: That was the first shot she took at him, saying he got $14 million from his dad. For him, it's, no, it was $1 million.
AXELROD: Right.
TAPPER: He was smart enough not to say that. They really had studied all the things that bothered him.
AXELROD: Without question. Their goal was to force Trump to be Trump and to really get him roused and riled and intemperate.
And he -- and that's, again, it goes back to prep. If you did a prep session, your preppers would do that. And you would force the candidate to confront why this isn't helpful. But this was -- he went out there cold, and that's -- he reacted.
GERGEN: I think, Jake, you're also seeing for the first time in a real way how she has built a team. In contrast to 2008 when she had a team that was all -- sixes, sevens, a lot of internal tensions.
She's got a professional team now. She's got a bunch of pros. They prepared her in a very, very professional way. It was a highly orchestrated.
And the day after was pre-planned. A lot of what we're seeing roll out now, they were planning to do this. I mean, they knew where they were going. AXELROD: She has the best debate prep team. I worked with them for
two cycles. Ron Klain and others, the best debate prep team in American politics.
GERGEN: I totally agree. I think we'll see more of it as the campaign goes on.
TAPPER: I want to play sound from Rudy Giuliani. He said, if he were the nominee, he might not attend the next two debates. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUDY GIULIANI (R), TRUMP SUPPORTER: If I were Donald Trump I wouldn't participate in another debate unless I was promised that the journalist would act like a journalist and not an incorrect, ignorant fact checker. The moderator would have to promise that there would be a moderator and not a fact-checker, and in two particular cases an enormously ignorant, completely misinformed fact-checker.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: That's not what a winning team sounds like.
AXELROD: Exactly. I mean, that's the loser's lament. The mike was rigged and made it sound like I was sniffling.
TAPPER: The umpire was blind.
AXELROD: I always advise my candidates that, if you are complaining about the media, then you're losing. You know, you have to play on the playing field.
But the thing that makes that such an absurd suggestion from Rudy Giuliani is, after getting your butt kicked in a debate, you don't show up for the next one, the assumption will be you're afraid to be there which is only going to exacerbate his problem.
GIULIANI: I totally agree with what Axe just said. He has to show up for the next two.
But I do think he's got an opening to say, what about Gary Johnson, shouldn't we have him in one of the two remaining debates? I think he wants to amplify Gary Johnson's message. If Hillary Clinton says, no, which she will, he can say, fine, I like to go up against Gary Johnson one on one, would invite CNN to do it and we'll have a big national debate.
That's what Reagan did, got John Anderson out there and help him beat Carter. The other --
(CROSSTALK)
AXELROD: Clever idea, because I think her great fear has to be that a lot of these young people flake to Johnson and Jill Stein.
TAPPER: If he decides to do it, I'm happy to moderate. David Axelrod and David Gergen, thank you both.
$1 million, that's what Donald Trump described last night as a small loan his father gave him to start his business. To most Americans, of course, $1 million is not small. Did either candidate connect with voters and their wallets? We're going to take a look at that, next.
Plus, can our election be stolen? Can it be hacked? New concerns from one of the nation's top security officials, and what's being done to prevent the hacking of multiple voting systems in the U.S.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
