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Two Men Charged in Killing NBA Star's Cousin; Pence: There Will Be No Path to Legalization; Turkish Warplanes Hit Targets Inside Syria; Trump and Immigration. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired August 28, 2016 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour now. You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Sciutto, in for Poppy Harlow.

[18:00:01] And we begin with new developments in the murder of an NBA superstar's cousin. We're hearing from the grieving mother of a Chicago woman who was gunned down while taking a walk with her newborn baby. Her daughter, an innocent victim of the gun violence on Chicago's streets.

Two men, they're brothers, are locked up right now, charged in the shooting death of Nykea Aldridge. Aldridge is the cousin of NBA superstar Dwyane Wade. Police say she was not the intended victim. Police say Derren Sorrells, Jr., and Darwin Sorrells were shooting at another when Aldridge was caught in the gunfire, the crossfire. Authorities say the brothers are career criminal and that they were in parole at the time of the killing.

CNN's Rachel Crane joins me now live from Chicago.

So, Rachel, you've sat with Nykea's mother. I've seen the interview, extremely powerful. It must have been difficult.

How is she doing and what did she say about her daughter?

RACHEL CRANE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, this is a mother deep in mourning and it was an incredibly emotional conversation. She described Nykea as simply awesome. She said her daughter was a fashionista, that she loved doing her hair, she was obsessed with t color purple, was an incredible writer and that her whole life was about her children, that she was an incredible mother.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NYKEA ALDRIDGE'S MOM: They miss their mom. They want -- they want their mom. It just hurts to hear kids saying they want their mom and their mom won't be in their lives anymore. Only through spirit, only through pictures, that's the only way they can know their mom for the rest of their lives. The only thing they have to go on is what they had.

It's just heartbreaking. It's really -- oh, God, it's heartbreaking. And I truly, truly, from the bottom of my heart -- I forgive them. I forgive them. I can't bring her back, but I forgive them. And I just pray to God that they pray to God to ask for forgiveness for what they've done. They've taken a person's life senselessly. And I just loved her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CRANE: Jim, I have to say sitting there having that conversation with her, I was incredibly moved. Unfortunately, this is not the first time that Diane has had to go through this kind of brief. She lost her eldest daughter about 10 years ago, also to gun violence.

SCIUTTO: That's just a tremendous burden. And to hear her there saying she forgives the gunmen.

Remarkably quick progress by the police with the arrest of the Sorrells brothers just within 24 hours. What more have you been learning about them? They were known gang members. Do you know anything more?

CRANE: Well, Jim, we know that the youngest brother, Derren Sorrells, was on parole for a gun charge. He was under electronic surveillance at the time, but legally he was not required to we his anklet during the day because he was supposed to be finding a job. So, he was not wearing his anklet at the time of the incident -- something that the police department is incredibly frustrated by.

SCIUTTO: I'm sure they're going to be answering questions about that. Rachel crane, thanks very much.

On the campaign trail, Donald Trump is still trying to clarify exactly what his immigration policy is. At an event for veterans in Des Moines, Iowa, he tackled the subject again, but this time he tried to narrow down exactly who would be deported if he's elected.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: On day one, I'm going to begin swiftly removing criminal, illegal immigrants from this country, including removing the hundred and thousands of criminally illegal immigrants that have been released into the United States and United States communities under the incompetent Obama-Clinton administration.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Trump specifying criminal illegal immigrants, which is actually a change. Before he said all illegal immigrants, and it has critics saying that that is a shift from his original plan, using a deportation force to remove all undocumented immigrants from the U.S. some 11 million, it's estimated.

But Trump's running mate, Indiana Governor Mike Pence, says that Trump's position has not changed at all. He sat down for an exclusive interview with my colleague Jake Tapper on CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Governor Pence, good to see you again.

GOV. MIKE PENCE (R-IN), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Thanks, Jake. Good to see you.

TAPPER: So, let's start with this issue, the estimated 11 or so million undocumented immigrants currently in the United States. This is what Mr. Trump promised back in November. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We're going to have a deportation force. And you're going to do it humanely.

QUESTION: Are they going to be ripped out of their homes?

[18:05:00] How?

TRUMP: Can I tell you? They're going back where they came. If they came from a certain country, they are going to be brought back to their country. That's the way it's supposed to be.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So, Mr. Trump has been saying that on, day one, the violent undocumented immigrants will be -- will leave the country. But what about the rest? What happens to the other 11 or so million, however many there are? Will there be a deportation force removing these individuals from the United States?

PENCE: Well, first off, let's be very clear first off. Nothing has changed about Donald Trump's position on dealing with illegal immigration. He put this issue at the center of this presidential campaign in the Republican primaries.

And his position and his principles have been absolutely consistent. We're going to secure the border. We're going to build a wall, have a physical barrier. We're going to enforce the laws of this country, end sanctuary cities, implement E-Verify.

And we will have a mechanism for dealing with people in this country that -- you heard the word humanely again. It is going to be fair. It is going to be tough. But there will be no path to legalization, no path to citizenship unless people leave the country.

He has said that very consistently, the contrast with Hillary Clinton, who supports amnesty, open borders, who wants to implement executive amnesty again on day one, even though the Supreme Court of the United States rejected it, and Hillary Clinton, who wants to increase refugees from the terrorist-torn country of Syria by 550 percent.

TAPPER: Yes.

PENCE: The choice could not be more clear for the American people. Donald Trump has been completely consistent in his positions, Jake.

TAPPER: Except on this issue. I understand everything you're saying there. But the one issue that you didn't really address is whether or not the 11 or 12 million undocumented immigrants will be removed by a deportation force, as you heard Mr. Trump say in that clip from November of last year.

Is that policy still operative?

PENCE: Well, what you heard him describe there, in his usual plainspoken, American way, was a mechanism, not a policy.

I mean, you're going to hear more detail in next two weeks that lays out all the policies. But there will be no change in the principle here that Donald Trump wants to make it clear to the American people that, while Hillary Clinton is committed to open borders, and amnesty, and executive amnesty, and more of the same that has really harmed our economy, and, frankly, as he said, with regard to dangerous individuals in this country, has cost American lives.

I -- when I was in Iowa, I met with Sarah Root's family. The heartbreak of Sarah Root's story and other stories of families whose children have lost their lives to people who are in this country, dangerous individuals who are caught up in this broken system and then escape justice, as the man that claimed her life did, it's going to end under an administration of Donald Trump.

TAPPER: I get that that the violent illegal immigrants will be removed from the country. But what I am not hearing and I am wondering, for people out there -- and, look, it's not just the liberal media, right?

It's also conservatives. It's Rush Limbaugh. It's Governor Sarah Palin. It's other people who want Donald Trump to win who are saying, wow, it sounds like he is really backing away from this deportation force --

PENCE: Right.

TAPPER: -- removing 11 million.

And you're not saying -- right now, Governor, you're not saying, you're not pledging that there will be a removal of all undocumented immigrants. You're not saying that.

PENCE: No.

What I am saying, Jake, and what I have said to you a minute ago -- and I want to be very clear -- there will be no path to legalization.

TAPPER: Right.

PENCE: No path to citizenship. People that want to gain legal status, you heard Donald Trump say again and again, will have to leave the country.

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: Right, but what about the millions in this country right now? What happens to them?

PENCE: Well, I think Donald Trump will articulate what we do with the people who are here. But I promise you --

TAPPER: Well, he already has articulated it.

PENCE: -- Donald Trump is more concerned about the American people, American citizens, people who are here legally, people that are struggling in this economy.

You got a family in Ohio, that the dad is working two jobs and mom has a side job, and they're trying to make ends meet. They haven't seen their real personal income go up in 10 to 15 years. And this flood of illegal immigration has contributed mightily to depressing wages in this country and denying jobs and opportunities to Americans.

TAPPER: That's why I am asking.

PENCE: And Donald Trump is going to focus -- I know the media wants to focus on that one issue. Donald Trump will articulate a policy about how we deal with that population.

But I promise you, he is going to remain completely focused on American citizens and people who are here legally, and how we get this country working for people who play by the rules.

TAPPER: I don't understand why -- I don't understand why it's the fault of the media for focusing on an issue that you're crediting Donald Trump for bringing to the fore.

PENCE: Yes.

TAPPER: The idea is, Mr. Trump won the primaries in no small way because he had this very forceful position, saying all 11 or 12 million undocumented immigrants will be forced to leave the country.

Now, you, right this minute, are not saying that that's the policy. You're saying he's going to unveiling it in the next few weeks. It's 72 days until the election.

(CROSSTALK)

PENCE: Well, I -- you -- the way you characterize his position is one thing.

[18:10:02] I think he has been completely --

TAPPER: I just -- we just ran the clip.

PENCE: Look, Jake, he has been completely consistent in the principles that he has articulated.

Nobody was talking about illegal immigration when Donald Trump entered this campaign. He was attacked from day one for putting the whole issue of the violence that is derived from certain individuals that come into this country illegally on the table. He has made it clear we are going to secure our borders, we're going

to build a wall, we're going to enforce the laws of this country, stand up and uphold the Constitution of the United States of America.

But what you see going on right now -- and I think, at a certain level, it's very refreshing, because it's the Donald Trump that I see every day -- is, you see a CEO at work. You see someone who is engaging the American people, listening to the American people.

He is hearing from all sides. But I promise you, he is a decisive leader. He will stand on the principles that have underpinned his commitment to end illegal immigration in this country. And that's what people will learn more about in the days ahead.

But let's be clear.

TAPPER: Yes.

PENCE: Hillary Clinton supports open borders, amnesty and even wants to increase Syrian refugees to this country by 550 percent.

TAPPER: OK.

PENCE: You couldn't have a more clear choice between Donald Trump and I, who will end illegal immigration in this country, and -- and Hillary Clinton, who will pursue more of the same, executive amnesty, open borders, which the American people are sick and tired of.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: Mike Pence also attempted to clarify another controversial stance of the Trump campaign, and that is whether children of undocumented immigrants should become naturalized citizens, that is, children who were born here in the U.S. We'll play that answer for you straight ahead. Please stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:15:08] SCIUTTO: We've heard Donald Trump refine his stance on immigration, going from deporting all undocumented immigrants to now focusing on the immediate deportation, quote, "of criminal, illegal immigrants". But what about the children of undocumented immigrants born here in this country who, by historically, would have citizenship?

Here now more of Jake Tapper's exclusive interview with Trump's running mate, Governor Mike Pence, answering that question.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: Let's turn to the children born in the United States to undocumented immigrants. Donald Trump said last year that these children -- it's about 4.5 million of them -- are not citizens. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: I don't think they have American citizenship. We have to start a process where we take back our country. Our country is going to hell.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Is it still the position of the Trump/Pence campaign that children born in this country, in this country, to undocumented immigrants are not U.S. citizens?

PENCE: Well, I think the whole question of anchor babies, as it's known, the whole question of citizenship, of natural-born Americans is a subject for the future.

I think the American people ought to ask it. We look at our whole immigration system and see whether or not that works and makes sense. But under the laws today in the United States of America -- I think what Donald Trump was referring to is, this is part of the issue that we need to deal with in this country.

But, look, I have to tell you, he is a -- he is a man who speaks his mind. And he has put this issue front and center with the American people. And I have to tell you, I -- I know how the media loves to come in and loves to, you know, divide the issues and -- and, frankly, I think, not you personally, Jake, but a lot like to see if they can drive wedges between people that support Donald Trump.

TAPPER: Yes.

PENCE: The truth of the matter is, as I'm traveling across the country, and -- and with Donald Trump and for Donald Trump, the American people hear him loud and clear.

Hillary Clinton is committed to amnesty and open borders and more of the policies that have harmed our economy, harmed American families and, in some cases, resulted in tragedy. Donald Trump is absolutely committed to securing our borders, having E-Verify system, standing by the Constitution, and reforming the immigration system in a way that works for American family.

TAPPER: I want to turn to Hillary Clinton and some of the really tough charges going back and forth between your campaign and her campaign.

She said this week Donald Trump is helping a radical fringe take over the Republican Party.

And take a listen to what your counterpart, Senator Tim Kaine, had to say just on Friday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TIM KAINE (D-VA), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Ku Klux Klan values, David Duke values, Donald Trump values are not American values.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: What's your response to Senator Kaine?

PENCE: I think Senator Kaine's comments, Hillary Clinton's comments on Thursday night sound desperate to me -- I mean, to be honest with you.

I don't talk a lot about the polls, Jake, but I know the polls are all closing up. And the fact that you see Democrats and Hillary Clinton and her running mate rolling out the same old playbook of racial divisiveness sounds a little bit to me like an act of desperation.

I mean, look, the -- the American people are sick and tired of politicians who seek to divide the people of this country to unite their supporters. And Donald Trump is reaching out.

TAPPER: Donald Trump called Hillary -- he called Hillary Clinton a bigot.

PENCE: Donald Trump has been reaching out --

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: Well, you just -- you just accused her of dividing people. He accused her of being a bigot.

PENCE: Well, look, and that was on the day that Hillary Clinton literally condemned not just Donald Trump, by the same terms, but also millions of Americans who long for a better future.

TAPPER: You think she was calling all Trump supporters racists?

PENCE: I think she was calling millions of Americans around this country who believe we can make America great again, who believe that Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama's policies have weakened America's place in the world and stifled America's economy, he -- she has put some sort of racist intention on those Americans.

I think that's deeply offensive. But here's the thing. The American people see right through it these days. And what you have in Donald Trump is someone who is reaching out, speaking boldly from the party of Lincoln, particularly to African-Americans and Latinos in this country, and saying, it doesn't have to be this way. It can be better.

I mean, think of the heartbreak in these communities --

TAPPER: But is --

PENCE: -- to be living in our inner cities, which -- which, in many African-American families, for now, generations have been in neighborhoods with failing schools, unsafe streets, no jobs and opportunities.

I mean, we're -- we're standing today on the 53rd anniversary of the "I Have a Dream" speech. And Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was one of the heroes of my youth. I walked across the Edmund Pettus Bridge with John Lewis on the 45th anniversary of Bloody Sunday. I think the progress in the civil rights movements is one of the great, great accomplishments in America.

[18:20:02] TAPPER: That said, so, I understand that that means a lot to you, but the reason --

PENCE: But look at the reality -- look at the reality in the minority community today in many of our cities.

I was walking through neighborhoods in Indianapolis just a few short weeks ago, before this opportunity came into my life with Reverend Charles Harrison, part of a 10-point coalition. You stand with families on their front porches, they will tell you the schools are failing, and they won't give us educational choice. The streets aren't safe, and we get no change, and there's no jobs.

Donald Trump believes we can make America great again for every American, regardless of race or creed or color. And the only answer Hillary Clinton and her running mate have is more of the same kind of racial divisiveness and racial attacks. And I really think it's beneath the dignity --

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: With all due respect, sir, the reason that Tim Kaine said what he said is because David Duke is supporting your campaign. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID DUKE, FORMER IMPERIAL WIZARD OF THE KU KLUX KLAN: I am overjoyed to see Donald Trump and most Americans embrace most of the issues that I have championed for years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: That must really bother you.

PENCE: It does really bother me.

And Donald Trump made it clear repeatedly in this week that not only does he denounce David Duke, but we don't want the support of people who think like David Duke.

But, look, look, people see the choreography, Jake. You and I have known each other a while. Hillary Clinton, not on that, but on the two speeches --

TAPPER: Yes.

PENCE: Hillary Clinton has a really tough week, right, 15,000 e-mails coming out --

TAPPER: Bad week, sure. PENCE: I mean, you have the Clinton Foundation, the -- more and more of the cascade of controversies coming out of here with the Clintons, you know, ducking and weaving, and not answering questions, more than 250 days since a press conference.

So, all of a sudden, here it comes. They roll out the politics of division with a speech Thursday night, and then her running mate comes out with those outrageous charges.

That -- I mean, the fact that -- that -- that an individual, a contemptible individual like that supports my running mate is no more relevant than the fact that the father of a man who killed 49 people in Orlando, Florida, was cheering Hillary Clinton at one of her rallies.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: So, is Donald Trump wavering on immigration? Trump suggested this last week he might soften his pledge to help every area in the nation. Coming up, how much wiggle room does he actually have? Can he change his immigration policy without alienating the many who support that hard line stance?

You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:26:10] SCIUTTO: Tragedy, it seems, knows no bounds in Aleppo, Syria. A helicopter dropped two barrel bombs on a group of mourners Saturday, mourners attending a funeral for children killed in a bombing two days earlier. Police put the death toll at this most recent bombing with 24 dead, with another 30 injured.

Amnesty International claims that barrel bombs are a common tactic among the Syrian government. These deaths are not accidental, they're intentional. It's a claim that President al-Assad, the president of Syria, denies.

Turkey today upping its attacks along the Syrian border. Turkish state media reporting that Syrian rebels supported by Turkish military forces have, quote, "cleansed" terrorists from 13 villages. Since Wednesday, Turkey has been helping the rebels retake key border towns from ISIS.

And today, Turkey's president announced that his country will fight Turkish militants with the same determination that it is now fighting ISIS.

CNN senior international correspondent Nick Paton Walsh is reporting from near the Turkish-Syrian border.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: President Erdogan, clear in his speech in the city Gaziantep that they will fight both the ISIS and the Syrian Kurds. His military are now in confrontation openly with, quote, "the same determination," saying, too, they will fight ISIS cells in this community.

But really, it appeared the focus of the speech was to mourn those lives lost in a recent wedding bombing here that killed over 50. ISIS took responsibility for that. And at the same time, to thank the city for the support it gave him during the most recent failed coup attempt.

The question really now is, where is the Turkish military and those Syrian rebels working alongside it moving inside northern Syria?

Fast movements today. We've heard from the deputy prime minister the desire for them to move along the border toward a town a called Mariah (ph), that could potentially have a lot of the border in control of Turkey and those Syrian rebels are getting backup from them. At the same time, too, they appear to be moving southeast toward a city called Mambish. That's important because Syrian Kurds moved into it recently to r flush out ISIS with American support and now claim there's nothing left.

Yet, those near it appear to being clashes with this advancing Syrian rebel force and Turkish military, too. Those clashes claimed one Turkish life the previous night and also today, we're hearing that an airstrike may have killed 25 militants in that particular area, although activists are saying those people were, in fact, civilians.

It's unclear, really, what happened there. What is clear is that the Turkish military and those rebels working alongside them purport to be taking more and more villages hour by hour. They are clearly in confrontation with those Syrian Kurds, but also receive American backing.

And this puts U.S. policy in a great dilemma here. They've been backing the Syrian Kurds for quite sometime in their fight against ISIS, but at the same time they've been supported by the same Syrian rebels that the Turkish are now backing as well. It's a very confusing dilemma in this border.

And it does suggest this potential Turkish intervention here is not only a matter of weeks, but months. They seem to want to stake out a large amount of territory here. They have two adversaries. Many hoped they would focus on ISIS, but at the time it seems like, the broader threat they see of the Syrian Kurds that they consider terrorists may take up a lot of their manpower, complicating a potentially dangerous time ahead there for Turkey and President Erdogan's trip here is very much a sign I think of how important this military action.

Nick Paton Walsh, CNN, Gazientip.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: Thanks very much to our Nick Paton Walsh.

Next, so does the news put Turkey at odds with its NATO ally, the U.S.? What is it trying to accomplish in Syria?

CNN global affairs analyst Kimberly Dozier, she'll join me live right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:33:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, HOST: There is heavy fighting right now along Turkey's border with Syria and the battlefield is growing ever more complex as our Nick Paton Walsh just described a few moments ago.

Turkey is sending planes and tanks to chase rebel groups from key cities in Syrian and it appears some groups they're going after are actually backed by the U.S. military. Turkey considers them however terrorists and state media there says that they have been cleansed from 13 villages. Human rights groups say civilians are also being killed.

I want to bring in now CNN Global Affairs Analyst Kimberly Dozier. She's also a "Daily Beast" contributor.

So Kim, help explain to our viewers here how, in effect, you have U.S. forces to some degree on both sides of the same battle.

KIMBLERY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: It really is complex. You almost need a game board to explain it to the public in the states.

What you have is Turkey has a couple of different enemies it's fighting. ISIS, which just had that horrible bombing it staged against a wedding, or at least it was blamed for it. And also Kurdish separatists inside Turkey who stage bloody attacks on Turkish security forces. Recently they just claimed a car bombing against Turkish police. So Turkey has --

SCIUTTO: And the thing about the Kurds -- right the Kurds are -- have been really the primary western-backed ground force on the ground in Syria against ISIS, so the U.S. has been supporting them. But then last week as Turkey went after some of these Kurdish forces, you had U.S. air support for Kurdish forces.

DOZIER: You do, and what I was getting to is so you've got Kurdish separatists inside Turkey, but then you've got the Kurdish groups south of the border inside Syria that are working with the United States. And you've got the U.S. trying to balance both sides against each other. The Turkish government that it needs to keep in good cooperation with and then these Kurdish forces in the south that it needs to take Raqqa away from ISIS.

So what they essentially said to both sides, to the Turks, the U.S. said we'll work with you to get the Kurdish separatists that you are worried are going to empower the separatists inside your country, we're going to tell them to get east of the Euphrates. The Euphrates River bisects Syria. So the top northeastern third, the U.S. has told the Kurds get back into that area, we'll support you --

[18:35:22]

SCIUTTO: --so basically far enough from the Turkish border? That's the intention there?

DOZIER: Exactly, whereas the Turks are moving south to take the city of Manbij where Kurdish forces with U.S. backing just were driving ISIS out of.

SCIUTTO: So this is -- I mean it's complicated right because the war itself already has so many different sides. But the U.S. has depended on these brave -- you know brave Kurdish forces there to push back ISIS. How are they reacting, those Kurdish forces, to the U.S. telling them hey, thanks for you know being the point -- tip of the spear against ISIS, but by the way Turkey, our NATO ally is going to come after you on the other side?

DOZIER: It depends which Kurdish group you are. To make it even more complicated, there are some Kurdish groups that are actually working with Turkey on the other side of the river.

So what the U.S. has to do is to try to keep all the different sides separate. But offer the Kurdish forces that they're working with, especially the group called the YPG, enough to stay with the coalition and help them take Raqqa away from ISIS.

They also have Arab forces that are working with the coalition, but the Arab forces are thought to be not as militarily capable as the Kurdish forces. So you have this mosaic, and on top of all of this, meanwhile you've got Russia backing Syrian forces who are striking other U.S. allies who are inside the city of Aleppo. A very complicated map.

SCIUTTO: It's incredible. Now but big picture, though and I think this is what most people at home probably care about, is that ISIS is however, losing ground in both Syria and Iraq.

DOZIER: ISIS is losing ground, having trouble replenishing with foreign fighters as both Turkish and Kurdish and coalition forces tighten up that border into Turkey. Fewer foreign fighters are able to come in and replenish the ranks of ISIS that are literally dying by the dozens in some of these airstrikes every day.

The problem is, ISIS is to the point where they've held on long enough that taking them out now inside Syria is kind of like knocking out a dandelion that's gone to seed. Yes, you're going to strike out that one flower but the seeds are going to go everywhere and that's what U.S. counter terrorists' officials are looking at down the line.

SCIUTTO: No question and when those fighters leave Syria where do they go? Some of them might return to Europe and elsewhere. Kim Dozier, it's confusing down there, thanks for helping clear it up for us.

DOZIER: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Coming up next. A week that could prove pivotal in the race for the White House. Donald Trump preparing to make the case for his immigration plan, but there are still questions. We're live in the CNN Newsroom.

[18:41:47]

SCIUTTO: Donald Trump's running mate Mike Pence says nothing has changed when it comes to Trump's immigration policy. That after cries of flip-flopping even from some Republicans, even from some Trump supporters as well as hints from Trump himself earlier this week that he might reconsider his earlier pledge to deport all of the approximately 11 million undocumented immigrants here in the U.S.

I want to talk this over now with our panel. We have Donald Trump support and CNN Political Commentator Scottie Nell-Hughes. Hillary Clinton supporter a Scott Bolden, he's former Chairman of the Washington D.C. Democratic Party. And CNN Political Commentator Tara Setmayer.

Tara if I could begin with you. You're a Republican, I know that you oppose Donald Trump. But from your perspective has Donald Trump changed his essential position on deportation?

TARA SETMAYER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Absolutely. And anyone who's been watching this will say the same thing. It's only Trump surrogates who are spinning themselves into knots trying to figure out how to B.S. the rest of America that he hasn't changed his position.

All you have to do is go back and listen to Donald Trump's own words, including a year ago around this time, when he told Chuck Todd on "Meet the Press" while he was on his airplane, he said that absolutely he would even deport dreamers. And that one of the thirst things he would do in office is rescind President Obama's executive order to keep dreamers here and end this (prodakar).

So he's been consistent with this. He built his entire campaign on this idea. He separated himself from Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio, and even John Kasich by this idea of getting everybody out.

Right now he sounds just like Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio. They're probably having you know shots of whiskey together somewhere going what could have been because it was their immigration policy that they were hammered over and now Donald Trump sounds just like them.

SCIUTTO: So Scottie Nell, there's a lot of tape with Donald Trump saying exactly as Tara said. All undocumented immigrants out of the country. Now he's saying criminal undocumented immigrants focusing on folks who committed criminal acts. He himself used the word softening to describe that change last week. How do you say there has been no change in the policy?

SCOTTIE NELL-HUGHES: Because it's the same four foundation principles that started off a year ago. Secure the border, force immigration law in sanctuary cities and implement e-verify and make sure that employers are having to stick with it.

He's always said --

SCIUTTO -- but one of the -- one of the principles established by him was to kick out the 11 million. I mean he even talked about a deportation force. NELL-HUGHES: And that's actually a law right now. We have something

called ICE. It was established back in 2003 and that is their job. They just unfortunately have been weakened once again with this administration not standing with law enforcement. All Mr. Trump is saying, let's just abide by the rules, and we need to abide by the laws and that includes making sure those who are here illegally go back home. Let's reform our immigration system in a humane way that they can come back in if they want to be Americans and join our community. I don't see what all the big hoopla has been, it's over two words; softening and TBD. Other than that everything that's come out of Mr. Trump or Vice President Pence, has been nothing but consistent as much as you guys want sit there and (inaudible).

SCIUTTO: It's not just about word but just yes or no on that. Has he changed his position on deporting 11 million undocumented immigrants in the U.S.

[18:45:00]

NELL-HUGHES: I think he had conversations now that he is the Republican nominee because he has been able to win and beat 17 other candidates. I think he had conversations with Paul Ryan and senate leadership and said OK, instead of being one of those politicians -- I'm sorry, I cannot can -- can I have an answer without some sort of condescending attitude --

SETMAYER: Because you were asked a simple yes or no --

NELL-HUGHES: It's my turn Tara. Tara --

SETMAYER: Yes or no, you're going around and around. Just say yes. You're not going to like spontaneously combust if you admit your candidate changed his position. It's all --

(CROSS-TALK)

SCIUTTO: Well let me put Scottie Nell --

(CROSS-TALK)

BOLDEN: Hey Jim, can I -- Jim, let me just say this --

SCIUTTO: I will come to you Scott, but I just want -- I just want to have Scottie Nell finish that thought. I do want to get your thoughts.

NELL-HUGHES: Yes, please don't be rude folks, it doesn't look pretty. No, this is all Mr. Trump's saying that instead of most politicians who would say a lot of things on the campaign trail, he's actually going to work with congressman and actually get something passed for once instead of this stalemate that has put the Republican Party in the situation it is today.

I'm done folks, you guys can go now.

SCIUTTO: OK. Scott, your turn -- your turn. BOLDEN: You know whenever you debate the Trump team, you ask them has

he changed his position, and they say no, it's evolved. You take them to the videotape well the ten videotapes where he says he's softened he's going to have a deportation force, he's going to support Operation Wetback from like the '40s and then you go back to them and they say, he didn't say that, or he said something different. Or you don't understand.

Like, should I believe them or my lion ears or my lion eyes as my grandmother used to say. It actually makes no sense whatsoever.

Do you hear it Jim? It's a seismic shift. This was a core value and now he's (inaudible) on exactly what his -- the other Republican presidential candidate said to him that you could never do it. Even the wall and making the Mexican country pay for it makes no sense. How is he going to stop them from digging under the wall? I mean it just makes no sense. And in 23 days --

(CROSS-TALK)

BOLDEN: -- hold on in 23 days -- in 23 days we start early voting, and his immigration policy simply remains unclear.

SCIUTTO: Tara, let me ask you a question. Because this idea, basically the softening as you said was very similar to Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio, even Ted Cruz's position. You're a Republican, I know you don't support Donald Trump. But is a softening a good thing for the GOP's chances in November?

SETMAYER: Well it would have been a good thing if it came from a credible candidate. That's why I didn't support Donald Trump. That's why I was more supportive of the Marco Rubio during the -- during the primary because it's impractical to say that you're just going to throw everybody out.

As hard core as I am on illegal immigration, I worked on this issue intimately when I worked in Capitol Hill for seven years, I know it well, I've been to the border, I've supported border patrol agents. Trust me I am not a squish on this. But it needs -- there has yet to be a policy laid out of what to do with the people who are here already. And that was something that's been the point of contention within the Republican Party for years.

And if Donald Trump had come out during the primary with the position he's saying now, I don't think he would have had as many people supporting him. This is -- it was this hard line that he was going to throw them all out that gained so much traction for him that just separated him from everyone else.

So when he --

(CROSS-TALK)

SCIUTTO: -- let me ask you and I'll ask the panel --

SETMAYER: -- But that is, that's the issue here and he is in -- a lot of this isn't practical. He has to go through congress, first of all, and he talks about he's going to do it. A lot of people are going to be disappointed if he's elected to find out that you don't get to run things like a king. You have to go through congress.

SCIUTTO: Well, let me ask this. Isn't -- is it fair to argue that this is what politicians sometimes do right. I mean Hillary Clinton was for the TPP before she was against it. Is this one different?

NELL-HUGHES: And Donald Trump --

BOLDEN: This is different I think Jim. I don't know who you're asking --

SCIUTTO: Scott, a quick thought then I do want to give Scottie Nell a chance before we go to break.

BOLDEN: OK. This is different because Donald Trump is an unusual politician, he is different. And with his pronouncements OK, he's got a hardcore 14 million that followed him and will continue to follow him.

And so it's one thing to pivot, to expand and evolve, but with your core issue, the one you beat 16 or 17 people on, 23 days before we start early voting and you start shifting and softening and figuring out because in part you talked to Hispanic voters out here and perhaps other people, it just doesn't make sense quite frankly.

SCIUTTO: Scott, I just want to give Scottie Nell a chance there. It's a pivot, I know you're not saying it is a pivot but would a pivot be acceptable Scottie Nell?

NELL-HUGHES: I think if it's something that he's working with Republican House and Senate leadership to actually get accomplished, absolutely. It's better than what we have right now and Hillary Clinton's 100 day amnesty plan, it's real simple to sit there for Democrats to say yet they've not given any specifics on how they're going to pay for the billions of dollars that are on middle class tax payers backs right now, paying for the illegals that are here in our country right now.

SCIUTTO: So is it a pivot though, will you grant that this is a pivot?

SETMAYER: Good luck Jim.

NELL-HUGHES: No, it's not -- it's specific it has never had -- like I said, the condescending laughs have no -- there's no place for that right now.

SETMAYER: Oh, Scottie, get over it --

(CROSS-TALK)

NELL-HUGHES: We're trying to get a solution.

SCIUTTO: Well we are going to have to leave it there. SETMAYER: Well if your candidate learns some policy then maybe we

would have a solution. It's been 15 months and he still doesn't know what he's doing. That's the concern.

[18:50:12]

SCIUTTO: OK, folks, we are going to have to leave it there, we're out of time.

Scottie Nell-Hughes, thank you. A. Scott Bolden, thank you. Tara Setmayer, thanks as always.

BOLDEN: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Coming up, it was the moment that saved the woman's life. How a police officer's simple act turned an addicts life around.

This week's beyond the call of duty is right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: It was a day that saved her life. A woman pulled over in a routine traffic stop gives a rare admission to the officer who stopped her.

CNN's Victor Blackwell has this week's "Beyond the Call of Duty."

BRIANNA BYRNES: I saw an officer pull behind me. I moved over to the lane hoping he would pass me, but he didn't.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: When then 31-year-old Brianna Byrnes was pulled over on that August night a year ago, she had no idea the traffic stop would change her life. Martin County Florida Sheriff's Deputy, Justin Albauer stopped Brianna for swerving out of her lane.

JUSTIN ALBAUER, SHERIFF DEPUTY, MARTIN COUNTY FLORIDA: Her hands were shaking. You could tell she was abnormally nervous.

BLACKWELL: And as Deputy Albauer would soon learn, she had good reason to be nervous.

ALBAUER: After you know, a brief conversation, she just -- she just came clean.

BYRNES: I had two bags of heroin and paraphernalia.

[18:55:05]

ALBAUER: I've never had it where somebody is open and says, you know, I have narcotics in the car.

BLACKWELL: Brianna says she explained her year's long struggle with opioid dependency and that she and her mother had spent the day calling detox centers but had no luck getting into one. But for Brianna it wasn't just that Deputy Albauer allowed her to tell her story, it was that he listened.

BYRNES: He was there to help me, and he did just that.

ALBAUER: I don't judge anybody.

BLACKWELL: Brianna was arrested that night and just before Albauer took her so her cell --

ALBAUER: I let her know that you know that she could call me if she needed to and that I wished her the best of luck.

BLACKWELL: After a short stint in the county jail, Brianna checked into a drug rehab program. And then a halfway house and a drug court program. And as she tried to turn her life around she never forgot about that night she was pulled over here.

Brianna, who says she's now drug-free, eventually reached Albauer at the Sheriff's office and passed along a letter.

BYRNES: Deputy Albauer, this time a year ago you forever changed my life. Words cannot express how thankful I am for you. Ever since that night you made me realize that I have a great purpose here in life.

ALBAUER: I stopped, pulled over and read it, and it's -- yeah, it hit you.

BLACKWELL: Victor Blackwell, CNN, Stewart, Florida.

SCIUTTO: A special moment, special people.

After the break, the words of a mother who lost her daughter to street violence in Chicago. Her heartbreaking interview it is powerful. That's next. You don't want to miss it.