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Trump Immigration Message; Trump and Clinton Battle. Aired 2- 2:30p ET

Aired August 26, 2016 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[14:00:00] BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: It was sent to the states for ratification, but fell three states short. Then, in 2014, President Obama signed executive orders aimed at closing the pay gap between women and men and the White House announced today that nearly 30 leading businesses have signed the equal pay pledge. But still today women make only 79 cents to every $1 that a man makes, although certainly that is something that has become debatable, I would say, in this current political climate.

And that is it for me. Wolf is back on Monday. The news continues right now.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Brianna Keilar, thank you, my friend.

Hi, everyone. I'm Brooke Baldwin. You're watching CNN. It is Friday. And we get to this.

As if his trailing poll numbers were not enough, Donald Trump just piled more pressure really on himself for his big speech next week. He is expected to give full details on his plans for immigration reform next week in Phoenix after voters are really just seeking clarity now more than ever after another day of some confusion over what exactly Trump intends to do for the roughly 11 million undocumented immigrants living in this country.

In an exclusive interview with Anderson Cooper just after we saw him speak there in Manchester, New Hampshire, just about 24 hours ago, Mr. Trump seemed to backtrack on his flip-flop. Backtrack on his flip- flop. You with me? So initially he promised deportation forces would send undocumented immigrants out of the country. But then this week he told a town hall he would, quote, "work with those here illegally," allowing them to pay back taxes. Then Trump just stressed to Anderson people in this country, undocumented immigrants, would have no legal status. And as for the deportation force he's talked about for months, well, Trump hasn't quite ruled that out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: If they haven't committed a crime, is there going to be a path to legalization?

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: The first thing we're going to do -

COOPER: I'm talking about citizenship, legalization. TRUMP: No, there's not a path. There is no path to legalization, unless people leave the country -

COOPER: You talked about paying back taxes on (INAUDIBLE).

TRUMP: Well, when they come back in, if they come back in, then they can start paying taxes.

COOPER: So they still have to leave the country?

TRUMP: But there is no path to legalization unless they leave the country and come back.

COOPER: If you haven't committed a crime and you have been here for 15 years and you have a family here, you have a job here, will you be deported?

TRUMP: We're going to see what happens once we strengthen up our border. But there is a very good chance the answer could be yes. We're going to see what happens. Before I do anything, I want to get rid of the bad ones. And there a lot of them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: All right, so let's begin with chief political correspondent Dana Bash.

I know you feel like this is "Groundhog Day." The crux of the question, which hopefully we'll have answers next week is, what will he do? What is his plan for the majority of those 11 million undocumented immigrants who, you know, have a clean, criminal record, who have been in this country for years and years?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: The answer is, we don't know because he says he doesn't know.

BALDWIN: Yes.

BASH: Which you could look at it as refreshing, but this is the core center - centerpiece of his candidacy and was.

BALDWIN: Yes.

BASH: He was even tweeting today, reminding people that he put immigration, and illegal immigration more specifically, back on the map for the Republican Party. And it's hard to even imagine now, way back at the beginning of the presidential primary process, the RNC and most of the candidates who were running as like sort of mainstream Republicans, they wanted to move away from this debate because they were concerned that Mitt Romney and others in the past who had been really focusing on this issue, they hurt themselves deeply with Hispanic voters and the growing -

BALDWIN: And Mitt Romney was just on self-deportation.

BASH: Right. Exactly. That's nothing - BALDWIN: Which is several ticks away from deportation force.

BASH: Right. Right. That's nothing like - like this.

BALDWIN: Right.

BASH: So - so that's the long way of saying, he's clearly trying to evolve. He's clearly, he said, used the word soften this week. Then he used the word harden with Anderson. I think that what seems the most apparent is the policy is a work in progress. His rhetoric, he's trying very hard to make it more palatable and make himself more tolerant to moderate Republicans and to independents and others who just can't fathom the idea of voting for somebody who they don't think is a tolerant person.

BALDWIN: I want to follow up on how it's a work in progress on August 26th and what you think may be happening behind the scenes that's spilling out publicly. Stay with me, Dana Bash, please. We're going to bring in a panel in a second.

But Trump's recent shifting and unshifting on his immigration plans certainly drawing critics out. Even one ardent supporter issuing a warning. Former vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin told "The Wall Street Journal" this. She said, in part, quote, "if Mr. Trump were to go down a path on wishy-washy positions taken on things that the core foundation of his support has so appreciated, there would be massive disappointment. Parts of that message we heard in the last week are clearly are not consistent with the stringent position and message that supporters have received all along." That's significant. We need to loop back to that as well.

[14:05:12] Let me bring in a couple more voices. I have Matt Schlapp. He is back with us today, chairman of the American Conservative Union and a Trump supporter. CNN presidential historian Tim Naftali, who is also co-director of NYU's Center for the United States and the Cold War, CNN political commentator Bill Press, who had supported Bernie Sanders, is the Dem here, and Dana Bash is with us.

So great to have all of you. Happy Friday.

MATT SCHLAPP, CHAIRMAN, AMERICAN CONSERVATIVE UNION: Hey, Brooke.

BILL PRESS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Hi.

BALDWIN: Matt Schlapp, you first, sir. I know -

SCHLAPP: Why did - why did I assume I was first here?

BALDWIN: You know. I mean I - I have love for you, Matt Schlapp. I enjoy having you on.

So let's begin with - with Mr. Trump. I think dana put it so well. I mean Mr. Trump essentially maybe just doesn't totally know where he is right now on immigration. Hopefully we all will have a better sense next Wednesday when he's in Phoenix. But do you have a sense on where he is deportation force, legal status, if you don't have a criminal record? I mean do you have a sense of where he is?

SCHLAPP: You know, I watched Anderson's interview last night, and I thought he actually made it very clear that there's no pathway to legal status or to citizenship or to any status if you have broken the laws and you're here illegally. And that in order to qualify for any type of status, you have to go home. And you know what's interesting for me, Brooke, as I worked for President George W. Bush in his first term, and it sounds very familiar to what President Bush was talking about near the end of his first term where he say everybody - everybody - and he's considered a moderate and a centrist on immigration - everybody who was here legally had to go home, fill out paperwork, demonstrate they had - they can get a job, that they had proficiency in English, and fill out all their paperwork and then they could come back with some kind of status after they were approved. So people think that this is very harsh rhetoric. It's actually very consistent with where a lot of Republicans have been for a long time.

BALDWIN: So - but for those undocumented immigrants, let me just follow up with you, who have not broken the law and have been here for years and years, what happens to them? I think that's where some of the confusion is coming.

SCHLAPP: Right. But this is - what - all I'm saying is what President George W. Bush said in the early 2000s is, everybody - everybody who is here illegally had to go home. They called it a touch-back.

BALDWIN: Right.

SCHLAPP: And you had to demonstrate to the American people that you understood that you had broken the law, that you had to demonstrate that you wouldn't be on welfare, that you would speak - you would have proficiency in English, that you - that you couldn't be a habitual lawbreaker and that you could get a job. And these are very basic and common sense requirements. It's - Trump uses different rhetoric, which causes people to draw different conclusions. But the policy itself is quite sane and I think a lot of Republicans support it.

BALDWIN: All right, we'll come back to the touch-back.

But, Bill Press, I know you were shaking your head. Go ahead.

PRESS: Well, first of all, look, President George W. Bush put forth a comprehensive immigration reform plan which was a good plan supported by Republicans and Democrats at the time, shot down by some right wing talk show host. It was a plan that President Obama has picked up. George -

SCHLAPP: And President Obama. And President Obama.

PRESS: Let me just say - no, it's my turn.

SCHLAPP: He was a senator.

PRESS: It's my turn, OK? And - and Donald Trump does not stand for that at all. Don't link him with George W. Bush. Here's the problem, Brooke. You know what, this is a total scam.

There's no change. There's just talk about maybe a change. There's total confusion. I watched that interview last night. I listened to his last three speeches. I've listened to every interview he's given. Nobody knows where the hell Donald Trump stands today on immigration.

As far as we know, he is still for building the wall. He is still for a deportation force to deport 11 million people. He's hinted that might change. He hasn't changed anything. I think we're all just being sucked in to talk about something that's not happening. He is exactly where he is on his signature issue. And if he's not, then too bad for campaign because this is Labor Day and he better figure out where the hell he stands.

BALDWIN: I feel like I'm hearing two totally different things. And you hear him use the word "scam."

BASH: Right.

BALDWIN: I know even Hillary Clinton's saying, let's take Trump at his word. He's the one - you know, let's believe what he said initially about Mexicans being, you know, rapists -

BASH: Yes.

BALDWIN: And drug dealers. But yet -

BASH: Brooke, let me - I love Matt. I love Bill.

BALDWIN: Yes.

BASH: And they both have good points. But let me tell you, because I was there -

BALDWIN: Yes.

BASH: Covering George W. Bush.

BALDWIN: Yes.

BASH: Matt is exactly right. He worked very hard to do comprehensive immigration reform in 2005, 2006. And guess what happened? It split the Republican Party open. And it opened - it helped open one of the initial massive divides within the party through the establishment versus the base. In other words, about spending, but there is a big, big, big problem and he didn't get it done. And it wasn't because of - I mean it was in part because of Democrats. This is where Matt is right. People like Barack Obama did support amendments at the time that even some senior Democrats like Ted Kennedy said, don't do it, but that was from the left. That was a different issue.

[14:10:11] But I guess the bottom line is that if Donald - if Donald Trump is explaining and putting forward immigration reform that is like George W. Bush, bye-bye Sarah Palin, bye-bye Ann Coulter and bye- bye a lot of the conservatives that Matt knows very well that comes to his conference - that come to his conferences and support conservative candidates -

BALDWIN: You don't think -

BASH: And not somebody like Donald Trump.

BALDWIN: And, Tim, I want to bring you into this too.

BASH: I mean not somebody like - like a Jeb Bush or even a Marco Rubio that thought he was a sell-out (ph).

BALDWIN: But might he then be expanding the tent if he, you know, sort of does that versus stay in - stays with the deportation force rhetoric, therefore maybe he loses Sarah Palin but grows others.

TIM NAFTALI, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: I've learned not to predict in this campaign.

BASH: You do history, not (INAUDIBLE).

BALDWIN: Facts.

NAFTALI: I do. But - but I would like - but I would like to build on what Dana just said. If you go to the Donald Trump last summer, a year ago, and you follow him through just a month ago, the rhetoric he was using on immigration was the rhetoric of the opponents to George W. Bush.

BASH: Correct.

PRESS: Yes.

NAFTALI: The far right, what's now called the alt right, the tough right, whatever you want - the people who hated the idea of comprehensive immigration reform because, for them, that meant letting people who broke the law get away with it. For others there was a racial component. But let's focus on the issue of breaking the law.

That was their rhetoric. He endorsed - he endorsed it. He embraced it. He used it. And those people power him through the early primaries. Then for a number of other reasons he ultimately wins. For him now to turn against them and to start to talk even a little bit like George W. Bush leaves him without any base at all.

BALDWIN: Leaves him without any base at all?

NAFTALI: Any - any, because the other Republicans don't like -

BASH: But where are they going to go?

NAFTALI: I - I -

BALDWIN: Matt, do you agree with that, leaves him without any base at all?

NAFTALI: That's - that's a base - SCHLAPP: No. Here's what we're missing. Here's what we're missing. All I'm trying to get to is, everyone gets caught up in the words. In politics, words are important. I'll give you that.

BALDWIN: Well, words matter. Yes.

SCHLAPP: But they do. They do. That's fair. But the policy underneath it has been consistent the whole time. The bright line test for the type of people that come to CPAC, Dana, is, I really think it's this question of amnesty. It's this question of -

BASH: Yes.

SCHLAPP: If you came to the country illegally, and you're allowed to just kind of get a pardon and stay here and carry on, I think that's obnoxious to a lot of people -

BASH: But a lot of them think touch-back is amnesty. And you know this. I mean, listen, if -

SCHLAPP: No. Let me -

BASH: If Jeb Bush heard you say that George W. Bush's policy is like Donald Trump's, I think he would be under the covers, you know -

SCHLAPP: Yes, but here's were - you know, Dana, I talked to the Bush campaign at the time. And the fact is, is this, is Jeb Bush made a mistake because actually what trump is saying on the bottom line is that you're going to have to follow the law. And once you follow the law to the t, there is a chance to come back here if you can meet certain specifications. I actually think that strikes a very reasonable chord.

Let's stop - start looking at the policies and stop looking at all the heat around them.

PRESS: Hey, Brooke -

BALDWIN: Bill Press, quickly, and then I want to move on to the next thing.

PRESS: OK, real quickly.

BALDWIN: Yes, go ahead.

PRESS: I just want to come back to the fact that nothing has changed.

BALDWIN: OK.

PRESS: Donald Trump, over a year ago said, build a wall, deport 11 million people. That's his position today.

SCHLAPP: Yes, that's right.

PRESS: It has not changed.

SCHLAPP: I agree with Bill.

BALDWIN: OK. OK. We have Trump next Wednesday on immigration. Let's recreate this then.

Stay with me. You are a fascinating panel. I have more for you. Hang tight.

Coming up, listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: What the hell do you have to lose? Give me a chance.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So we've heard that a couple of times, right, from Mr. Trump. Now the Clinton campaign is trying to seize on that line, what do you have to lose? Using Trump's own words to sway voters across key swing states. We have more on that with our panel.

Also, the Trump campaign, for its part, digging into Clinton's past and her comments from the late '90s. Remember when she talked about the super predators. And even Bernie Sanders as recent as this debate cycle, he referred to that as racist. Why that's all coming back up into the fold.

Also, (INAUDIBLE) of people. The CEO behind (INAUDIBLE) life-saving allergy medication, EpiPen, is now speaking out. She is defending this massive and controversial price hike. Her father, by the way, U.S. Senator Joe Manchin also breaking his silence. We will talk to a consumer advocate and a guy who wanted to be the president himself, Ralph Nader. He joins me to discuss live.

You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:18:48] BALDWIN: Welcome back. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Today marks exactly one month until the first presidential debate between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. And if this week is any indicator, the potential for volatility is high. Both Trump and Clinton have released political ads accusing one another of racism and bigotry. I've got a couple of ads for you. First up, this is a new Clinton ad. This is out today running in four swing states.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I have a great relationship with the blacks. I have - I've always had a great relationship with the blacks.

What the hell do you have to lose?

ON SCREEN TEXT: Everything.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Bringing my panel back.

Tim Naftali, to you first. This is a line she used in that alt right speech yesterday, what do you have to lose, Trump's line, her answer, everything. Again, using Trump's own words against him. Effective? Will it stick?

NAFTALI: Hillary Clinton has been most effective in my mind when she lets Trump speak for Trump. When she starts to attack him, it then looks like a brawl and Americans don't like brawls. So ads that use Trump to describe Trump, I think would be more effective than her coming on and saying he's a racist.

[14:20:00] BALDWIN: Bill Press, what do you think?

PRESS: Well, first of all, I say score Hillary. We are not today talking about the Clinton Foundation, Brooke, which we talked about two days ago. We're not talking about the Clinton e-mails. I think she laid a trap for Donald Trump and he walked right into it. She said she was going to give a speech talking about his dog whistle campaign. He went out first, attacked her as a bigot and that's all we've been talking about ever since. So I think the idea that Donald Trump could stay on message, he's failed yet again. Clinton scores.

BALDWIN: Well, on the other hand -

SCHLAPP: Well, we - we can talk about those e-mails.

BALDWIN: On the other hand - actually, hang on, hang on, Matt, I know you want to jump in, because I have this ad, I know you've seen it on Instagram from Donald Trump. Roll it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: They are often the kinds of kids that are called super predators, no conscience, no empathy. We can talk about why they ended up that way, but first we have to bring them to heal.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You called out President Clinton for defending Secretary Clinton's use of the term "super predator" back in the '90s when she supported the crime bill. Why did you call him out?

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Because it was a racist term and everybody knew it was a racist term.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So, again, it's important context. She made the "super predator" comment. That was in '96. That was when she was stumping for her - during the election, stumping for her husband's criminal justice reforms. And you saw even in the debates this past cycle, at our own debate, when Bernie Sanders called it racist. So, Dana, back and forth this, "you're a racist," "you're a bigot," I

mean this further as Donald Trump is hoping to prove his point against Hillary.

BASH: Right. You know, and when Anderson was asking for that proof, you know, he was talking - Donald Trump was answering just broadly about how the inner cities -

BALDWIN: He wanted to pin him down on what group.

BASH: Exactly.

BALDWIN: Right.

BASH: And so this kind of specificity, Donald Trump didn't have at his fingertips. He talked broadly -

BALDWIN: Right.

BASH: About his new kind of line of attack, that Hillary Clinton, like all Democrats, have - have not helped the inner cities. They tend to run the inner cities across the country and they're in bad shape. But on the personal attack that he made against her, calling her a bigot, he didn't have that at his fingertips. And his campaign clearly did and they wanted to bolster what he was saying and that's why they put this out there. But as you said, Hillary - I think you said, but we should clearly point this out, Hillary Clinton, at the beginning of this campaign, very explicitly said -

BALDWIN: She would never say that again.

BASH: She regretted it.

BALDWIN: Yes.

BASH: And she would never say that today.

BALDWIN: Yes. Yes.

Matt Schlapp, you know this - he skipped over the bigot line during the speech yesterday. He used it again when he was talking to Anderson. Although to Dana's point, he had a tough time specifying how she - she was bigoted or to whom she was bigoted. And then you have this Instagram video.

SCHLAPP: Right. You know I think - I - like I said, I watched this interview with Anderson. What Trump said at one point is that her policies are bigoted because what's ended up happening, and this is a big conservative versus liberal argument, which is we've had - you know, since Lyndon Baines Johnson, we've had these great society programs, which have nearly bankrupted the country, and look at the vulnerable communities, look at the diverse communities, are they better off or are they worse off?

Now, they're much better off because we've passed civil rights legislation and they were empowered with their constitutional civil rights, which is a good thing that America did, but the policies themselves, these big spending, free-wheeling, left wing policies have actually broken down the families and left them more vulnerable. I think Trump's point has to be that these big spending policies that - that Hillary Clinton does nothing to talk about how she would reform or change or actually what should be the centerpiece. Once again, I wish we would focus on these policies and less on these words.

PRESS: Hey, Brooke, I want to invite myself to Matt's next conference. I'll be glad to debate -

SCHLAPP: You can come. You can come.

PRESS: I'll be glad to - I'll be glad to debate him on the differences for the African-American community between the policies of the Democratic Party and Republican Party. But that's not the issue here.

SCHLAPP: Look at the poverty rate. Look at the unemployment rate.

PRESS: The issue here is - the issue here, if I may, is, that Donald Trump called Hillary Clinton a bigot, which Dana pointed out, without any specifics when pressed by Anderson Cooper. No specifics whatsoever. Hillary Clinton did not call Donald Trump a bigot, but she said he's done some racist things. And she came down with a treasure chest of things, starting with calling all Mexicans rapists, saying a Mexican judge couldn't give a fair trial or couldn't come up with a fair verdict. He's been sued by the Department of Justice for not renting to minorities, on and on and on, calling for a ban on all Muslims, deporting 11 million people. Where do you start? Where do you end? And I think that's a very telling indictment of the kind of campaign that Donald Trump is running, ending with the hiring of Steve Bannon at his CEO, who calls his website -

SCHLAPP: But this is where you - this is -

PRESS: A platform for the alt right, like saying all the alt right are welcome in my campaign. That - that hurts, Matt.

SCHLAPP: I done think you can have it both ways. Hillary Clinton went to the convention in Philadelphia and said, we shouldn't be using this harsh rhetoric and we shouldn't be crossing these lines.

Her whole campaign is about using very harsh rhetoric for making all of us who are conservative or right of center feel like we're haters, we're racist. This should stop.

[14:25:04] PRESS: Deny - Matt, deny, deny - no, no, no, deny that Donald Trump -

BALDWIN: OK.

PRESS: Deny that Donald Trump did all the things or said all the things Hillary said.

SCHLAPP: Oh, I will deny them.

PRESS: You cannot because you know he did it. SCHLAPP: Let's do a segment.

PRESS: He said them. He said them all.

SCHLAPP: Let's do a segment.

BALDWIN: OK. OK.

PRESS: I'm ready. Let's go.

BALDWIN: Just, hang on. Hang on. A quick button on your reporting, Dana Bash, on the positive sit-down meeting with Trump and senior staff yesterday.

BASH: Yes.

BALDWIN: Just, 30 seconds.

BASH: Well, Bill was talking about Steve Bannon -

BALDWIN: Yes.

BASH: Being now at the head of the Trump campaign. He is somebody who has spent a lot of time, really his whole political career, not only running against Democrats but the establishment inside the Republican Party. So the open question when he took over was, would the Trump campaign still be working hand in glove with the Republican National Committee, which they have been. The answer appears to be yes, because I'm told that top staffers from the RNC came to New York yesterday, sat down with Trump officials and I'm told by multiple sources that it was a very positive, constructive meeting talking about how to go forward together to win battleground states.

BALDWIN: Got it.

Dana, Tim, Matt and Bill, thank you all so much.

PRESS: All right. Thanks, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Appreciate it. Happy weekend.

Coming up here on CNN, we'll talk to a Hispanic who is also a Republican, who's actually the spokesperson for the Florida Republican Party and he says he recently quit his job because of Donald Trump. We'll talk to him about why specifically and what he thinks about Trump's new thoughts on immigration.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)