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U.S. Olympic Swimmers on Video. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired August 18, 2016 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:02] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Here we go. Top of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you for being with me.

You saw the animation. We got the breaking news here on a massive development in the story some are jokingly dubbing "watergate." But, listen, this could have, in fact, serious implications for U.S. Olympians. One of them, swimming's golden boys, Ryan Lochte, now embroiled in a scandal over his claim that he was robbed at gun point after a night out on the town in Brazil. Now a source close to this investigation tells CNN that Brazilian police believe there was no such robbery and they're about to hold a press conference they minute now. So we're listening in for that.

We do have some new video - let me share that with you here - that appears to shows the incident, but in so many ways it actually raises more questions about what really happen in the wee hours there in Brazil. The gas station owner now says that the athletes threw some rocks, ripped a sign and even urinated outside. The athletes are then seen trying to leave. At one point you see them here trying to get into the wrong taxi cab after they - here you go - finally make it to the right one, they're approached by a man who appears to be in a uniform and appears to be armed as we see one of the swimmer here raising his hands in surrender.

The next surveillance video shows one of the swimmers - wait for it - you'll see him fall to the ground. Here you go. And they appear to be forced to sit down there on the concrete. One of the swimmers then stands up and then the surveillance video we are given ends.

We've got a lot to walk through here, what really happened, legal implications. Miguel Marquez is with us, CNN correspondent, to talk more about the video. Danny Cevallos is here, CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney, Christine Brennan, CNN Sports analyst, live in Rio, and Art Roderick there in Washington, D.C., our CNN law enforcement analyst and former assistant director for the U.S. Marshal service.

So, Miguel, let me just begin with you. I want you to walk us through. We, you know, did bits and pieces of the video. But tell me what we see and also, mostly importantly, what we still don't see.

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is a video released by "O Globo," which was given - given to them. "O Globo" is a Brazilian newspaper. Given to them by Brazilian investigators. And it shows what was going on - or at least a piece of what was going on that evening when Mr. Lochte and his cohorts were - got into this situation.

You can see in the video as Lochte walks out, he appears to be second, given that the distinctive hair color that Mr. Lochte was wearing during the Olympics. And he does appear inebriated - or at least to stumble as he walks out in that video. In the other videos, it is clear that they are confused, trying to get into the cab, and then it looks as though a police officer or somebody - some sort of authority puts them on the ground, and that's why you have these massive changes in the story.

BALDWIN: OK. OK. Christine, you've seen the video. You've analyzing it as well. You know, we don't see any guns, though you do see them with their - with their hands up apparently in surrender. And we've also heard that Lochte has - there have been different versions of his story. Tell me what you know.

CHRISTINE BRENNAN, CNN SPORTS ANALYST: Yes. Well, if this video is accurate, it certainly looks like it is, and with the reporting that we're now hearing now around town, Brooke, is accurate, Ryan Lochte made it all up. He said he had a gun to his head Sunday morning. Obviously an incendiary comment to make at any time, but especially during the Olympic games in this city, Rio, all the talk, months and months we've talked about it, all the run-up to these games, the issue of crime and violence and Zika and water pollution, the laundry list for Rio, and that it would play right into every stereotype what Lochte said. And then for four days, four or five days this goes on, basically hijacking the Olympic games, and then it's not true? Wow, what a bombshell. And it reflects so poorly on Ryan Lochte and we'll see about the other three teammates as well. Exactly, Brooke, what the U.S. Olympic committee did not want to have happen.

BALDWIN: Yes.

BRENNAN: The USOC likes to lie low, let the athletes win medals, don't cause trouble. This is a PR nightmare for the U.S. Olympic Committee and, of course, for Ryan Lochte.

BALDWIN: Art, you, from your - you know, your perspective, do you see anything criminal here in the video?

ART RODERICK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: It doesn't look like it from the video. But as we know, the videos only tell a portion of the story. There's no audio there, so we can't hear anything that's being said. Again, you know, this isn't the first time this has happened with U.S. swimmers. As you recall, several years ago during the Olympics in South Korea, we had a - we had a swimmer that had vandalized a local church or, you know, some type of religious - stole some type of religious statue from a church or something. So this isn't the first time this has happened.

[14:05:10] Lochte's back here in the U.S. We do have an extradition treaty with Rio. I don't think this rises to the point where he's going to be extradited. This is filing a false police report. It's being investigated as we would investigate it here. So there's a lot of questions to be answered yet. Unfortunately, we've still got those three swimmers down there in Brazil that are being held in custody until this all can be sorted out.

BALDWIN: You mentioned filing a - you know, false filing of a report.

RODERICK: Right.

BALDWIN: Let me turn to you, Danny, as far as, if this turns out to be entirely false, whole story was made up, what kind of trouble could these guys be in?

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: If they communicated a false report, in Brazil, my understanding is, that is a crime that carries a penalty of up to three years. Similarly, back here in the United States, there's a federal crime, lying to government law enforcement agents, that carries a potential sentence of five years.

When it comes to extradition, all extradition is governed by the applicable treaty. Brazil has a treaty with the U.S. And there are really two main components. First, it has to be an extraditable crime. It either needs to be within a list, and then it additionally has to be something that is punishable in both countries with a year or more imprisonment.

Now, technically, that may meet the definition of the treaty, but even the listed crimes in a treaty are so general that it really depends, number one, on what Brazil chooses to charge them with. And, number two, the politics of the State Department, in even evaluating that request, because, you know, treaties are - it's not uncommon for people just not to follow them and decide, you know what, we don't feel like giving this person back. What makes this case particularly complicated is that we have more than one person in each of the countries.

BALDWIN: That's right.

CEVALLOS: So it would be very awkward for the United States to say, we're not giving you Lochte, Brazil, and then, in the same breath, turn around and say, by the way, can we have those other guys back?

BALDWIN: Christine, here's - here's my other question is, you know, the whole why we care factor of all of this. I mean when you look at someone like Ryan Lochte, I think he's the second most highly decorated swimmer behind Michael Phelps. I mean there is a - we hold them to a higher standard. And when you hear these sorts of stories, people talk and people - people don't like it.

BRENNAN: Brooke, absolutely we hold Olympians to the highest standard possible. The toughest drug testing, by far. Way tougher than Major League Baseball or the NFL or anything else. And the role model, that quaint term "role model," which has kind of gone out the window in so many professional sports, it is alive and well with the U.S. Olympic Committee, USA Swimming. USA Swimming has banned Michael Phelps twice, once for three months for the marijuana photo, and then six months for the DUI a couple of years ago. I've put on Twitter, I believe this, I really do, from the bottom of my heart, Ryan Lochte should be banned for life by USA Swimming.

BALDWIN: Wow.

BRENNAN: First of all, he's 32, but in terms of having an affiliation moving forward. When you place in context - I know it sounds - it sounds harsh - place in context Rio and what he's asserted and how he has taken over, taken the spotlight from hundreds of athletes over the last few days, the predicament he's put his teammates in as a team leader, leaving these three guys to twist in the wind from the U.S. team, and then, of course, the U.S. Olympic Committee, the ultimate embarrassment. I don't see any way they cannot ban him for life. USA Swimming takes these things very, very seriously, and I'm glad they do.

BALDWIN: Wow. Let me ask all of you to stand by. Again, we're awaiting a news conference. Should get more information directly from Brazilian authorities.

A quick break. More on our breaking news, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:12:32] BALDWIN: Back to our breaking news here. Live pictures, Rio de Janeiro, as we are all waiting to get a little bit more information because, my goodness, there is still a heck of a lot of questions over this whole, was there a robbery, was it not a robbery, were they just drunk and up to no good. I'm talking about Ryan Lochte, the second- most highly decorated U.S. swimmer and some of his Olympian swimming buddies down in Rio in the wake of their wins in the Olympics.

So we have all this new video. We have new video that we've been parsing through from the wee hours one morning at this gas station. You know, the question is, is Lochte telling the truth? Was he robbed at gunpoint as he - as he has said, or not.

I have Christine Brennan standing by down in Rio.

I believe, Christine, this is your seventh Olympic games. And Christine just said to us, she believes that the whole story was falsified. Ryan Lochte should be banned for life from swimming. So that's Christine.

Miguel Marquez is here, Danny Cevallos and Art Roderick.

Let me - let me pose, Christine, this question to you, because I'm a big believer and sometimes the truth lies in between. What if some of what Lochte's saying is true, perhaps he was - perhaps there was a gun. Perhaps he was forced to give over some money in his wallet. Maybe there wasn't a gun to his head. What do you make of that?

BRENNAN: Yes, I think that we're in this grey area where we still don't know everything and I think we're going to know a lot more in the next few hours. This is the kind of story, as you know, Brooke, that just develops so quickly and we get the answers to almost all these questions.

Yes, I think there's some grey area, but assuming he made it up, and I'm assuming right now, just for the sake of this conversation, that it's all made up, then I don't know how you let him back into this sport. And I know people would say, well, he's 32, he's almost already (ph) done. But being a representative of USA Swimming, doing alumni events. And, by the way, I've actually covered 17 Olympics in a row, L.A. in '84 to now.

BALDWIN: Seventeen.

BRENNAN: Yes. Yes. I started when I was in kindergarten. And - but I - but the Tonya Nancy thing, to use an example, Tonya and Nancy in 1994, I'm sure many people remember that, Tonya Harding was kicked out of U.S. figure skating for life. That was a whack on the knee. It was a terrible thing, but also kind of became humorous in its own terrible way. A bruised knee, and she was kick out for life.

The Olympics - the U.S. Olympic national governing bodies, Brooke, take this stuff very seriously. And I don't know any old-school people out there might say, you know what, good. Good that there's something out there, there's some consequence for one's action, especially for hijacking these games, as I mentioned, and for doing this to Rio, playing into the stereotype, not only of the ugly American, if, in fact, it's all true, that he made it all up, and also, of course, what he did to the people of Rio, making it look like something happened when it did not, if in fact it did not.

[14:15:14] BALDWIN: Christine, let me ask you this. You know, let's say you're a Ryan Lochte or some, you know, Olympian. You've finished your events. Perhaps you've medaled. You know, you're pretty stoked. You're hanging out in Rio de Janeiro. I mean, what are they up to before they hop that plane and head home?

BRENNAN: Well, you bring up a great point. And this is why for a while there hearing that they were getting in a cab at 4:00 in the morning or something that many of us just nodding our heads and said, sure they were. Events go very late here. It was the last night of swimming, Saturday night. He was there with his teammates. That was Michael Phelps' last race and the women's medley, a big all-American celebration. Then they decide to go out. Well, they're already leaving the venue at around 1:00 in the morning. And by the time they're going out it's 2:00 or 3:00. So that part of it is understood.

Ryan Lochte is an interesting fellow. You can Google him and you'll get all - you'll see a lot of what he's been up to. Social media star. He is a happy-go-lucky fellow. Obviously wanted to go out on the town and celebrate with his friends. I have no trouble with that. I'm sure you have no trouble with that. He's 32 years old.

The only thing that I am looking at here for purposes of our conversation, Brooke, is, did he lie about having a gun put to his head, a story that literally put these games on edge, charged the entire complexion of the Olympics from that first week, through that weekend, and then, boom, there is that story, an American with a gun to his forehead. That's the only part. Otherwise, Ryan Lochte's doing what so many dozens, hundreds of these athletes do, which is have fun and enjoy Rio after their competition is over.

BALDWIN: OK, Christine, thank you. Stand by. Still waiting for that news conference. Waiting for more details. We're going to get them. Stand by. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:21:11] BALDWIN: We are back with the breaking news. There's the podium. We're still waiting for police there down in Rio. We're supposed to be hearing from the chief of civil police, the chief of tourist police, all on this scandal that has rocked the Olympics. I say scandal because we're really just trying to get to the point of what really happened. I'm talking about Ryan Lochte and his three swimmer buddies who were, you know, partying, as one might when they've had a good time in Rio and have swum extremely strongly. But the question is, were they robbed at gunpoint? Is that a true story? And, if not, what kind of trouble could they be in.

I have Christine Brennan, who has covered 17 Olympic games. Forgive me earlier, Christine. Miguel Marquez is with me, Danny Cevallos and Art Roderick.

So, as we wait to hear from police, Miguel, let me just go to you. You know, Christine alluded to his presence on - Ryan Lochte's presence on social media. You know, fill in the blanks.

MARQUEZ: Yes, look, this is a guy who has over a million Twitter followers. This is someone who also, just a short time ago, posted an Instagram post where he had sort of the silly faces used from Snapchat basically and wishing someone a happy birthday. Not the most opportune time to put something like that forward.

This is someone that sort of came into public consciousness certainly after the 2012 games. This, you know, very well-known, very hot, very sexy American swimmer who took over the games basically and became known at - you know, for his catchphrase, ja (ph). This is also a guy who starred in a "30 Rock" episode shortly afterwards called "the sex idiot." He talks about that in interviews as though he's just playing himself, he says, which is, you know, he has a pretty good sense of himself.

This is also somebody who has been in trouble in the past. He went to the University of Florida, three times since 2005 he's been picked up there or arrested. In 2010, disorderly conduct, fighting in public. In 2005, once for urinating in public, another time for trespassing. This is somebody who clearly likes to have a good time, is an extraordinarily good and fast swimmer, a killer backstroke, but also enjoys the lighter side of life as well.

BALDWIN: OK. Thank you for the profile, Miguel Marquez.

MARQUEZ: A very quick profile.

BALDWIN: And, Danny, just looking to you again, for folks who are just joining us, what are you listening for from police and what kind of trouble - if this whole thing was false, what kind of trouble could they be in? CEVALLOS: Well, Brooke, you've said, you know, there's - truth lies

somewhere in the middle and you're really never going to get the exact story from either side and any criminal defense attorney will tell you the same thing.

BALDWIN: There's a video, because (ph) it doesn't show everything.

CEVALLOS: Right. And, you know, we hoped that with video, the advent of video, that everything would be more objective. But as you can see, minute by minute, it just raises more questions.

And I have to say, that it seems to me at least part of the story is, hey, Ryan Lochte and guys, you were lying, says Brazil, because you said you were robbed, when, in fact, it may have been the case that instead somebody came up to you at gunpoint and demanded money. To me, that's still a robbery. So somewhere in the middle is the truth. If they were forced at gun point to hand over a robbery, even over some civil dispute, there is some element of crime there. So while they may not have been picked out at random and robbed on the street, maybe the Brazilian side of the story isn't 100 percent true either. I think, as video continues to emerge, we can hopefully get closer and closer to what really happened.

BALDWIN: Christine, you know, in the lead-up to the Olympics, there was all kinds of coverage about Rio, and about Zika, and about crime, and pollution. And when you followed the games, it was pretty tame. I mean there was a green pool for a minute and there was some empty stands. I mean then you have this. You're there in Rio. You're feeling how this story, you know, is resonating there. How big of a deal is this in Rio?

[14:25:02] BRENNAN: Well, I think it's a very big deal and I think that's one of the reasons the police have been so public in the last 24 hours to say, wait a minute, here, there's a whole nother side to this, as Lochte's story unraveled, at least what we believe has unraveled.

You know, it's interesting because I have not seen one mosquito. I've been here for close to three weeks. I've not seen one mosquito. And that's kind of - you know, it's kind of funny, although the Zika virus is not funny at all. But I was being asked by other journalists, Brooke, to give my first impressions the first week, kind of half-way through, and saying that things were pretty good. And I sent those quotes actually to someone who was writing a piece for pointer.org. You know, if green water and this incident with the bus - then, you know, that - if that's it, then Rio's doing pretty well.

And once the Lochte news hit and he said - and, again, it's important to said, he said, he told NBC that he had a gun to his forehead and they were robbed and all the things that he has - as we all know now, he said. Once that happened, I actually e-mailed the person who had asked me, the reporter, and I said about those - about my impressions and I said, let me make a change here, and I sent him another paragraph or two. That's the best story I can tell you to illustrate how I, as someone who's covered a lot of these things, reacted to the Lochte news. To me, it changed everything and put the games, as I said earlier, on edge. Everything was just edgier. The visual of an American with a gun to his head, a U.S. athlete with a gun to his head, was just really troubling.

So, to answer your question, I think it was a big shift from what we have seen to that moment, until that Sunday morning and Sunday afternoon when we first heard the news. I think it was a very big deal. And that's why I think it's such a big deal - obviously we're all covering it so closely now -

BALDWIN: Yes.

BRENNAN: Because of that turning point and the international relations aspect of it.

BALDWIN: Sure. And Brazil and Rio wants to stand up for itself, because they were on the defensive in the lead-up to the games and they want to make sure they're getting the facts out there. And if the story was falsified, they want us to know it.

We're watching and waiting for the civilian police and the tourist police chief to sit at that table and speak to members of the media.

In the meantime, got to take another quick break. More on this breaking story out of Rio de Janeiro, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)