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CNN NEWSROOM

Trump Says He was Being Sarcastic on Obama ISIS Founder Claim; Trump Supporters Take Aim at the Media; Clinton Puts Pressure on Trump to Release Taxes. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired August 12, 2016 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[10:00:01] JEANNE MOOS, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: At least the climber got closer to the top of Phelps than he did to the top of Trump Tower.

Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: The next hour of CNN NEWSROOM begins right now.

Good morning, everyone. I'm Erica Hill in today for Carol Costello. Thanks for being with us.

Donald Trump, bruised by sagging poll numbers, now battling his own words again. He says his most recent over-the-top comments were nothing more than tongue-in-cheek. His tweet this morning, "Ratings challenged CNN reports so seriously that I called President Obama and Clinton the founder of ISIS and MVP." As you can see there in all caps. "They don't get sarcasm?"

So is this just a humorless media, we just don't get it? Or is this the latest example of Donald Trump trying to clarify his message? Well, you can judge for yourself. In a series of his comments yesterday, beginning with a conservative radio host trying to nudge Trump to tone it down.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HUGH HEWITT, HOST, "THE HUGH HEWITT SHOW": Last night, you said the president was the founder of ISIS. I know what you meant. You meant that he created the vacuum, he lost the peace.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No, I meant, he's the founder of ISIS. I do.

I call President Obama and Hillary Clinton the founders of ISIS. They're the founders. Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, these are the founders of ISIS. These are the founders of ISIS because of bad judgment. He is the founder of ISIS. He's the founder of ISIS. OK. He's the founder. He founded ISIS.

As far as I'm concerned, and I'll say it, I'll say it to anybody who wants to listen, he is the founder of ISIS. They must love him. (END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: There is a lot to cover, of course. We want to begin with CNN's Athena Jones in Washington.

So, Athena, lay this out for us. Where do we stand at this hour just after 10:00 a.m. on a Friday on the East Coast?

(LAUGHTER)

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is like here we go again, again, isn't it, Erica? Well, we're seeing right now where we stand is that Trump said as of a couple of hours ago that he was just being sarcastic. This after spending all day, every moment he could, talking about how President Obama and Hillary Clinton are the founders or the MVPs of ISIS. In another clip, because there are so many, he told CNBC he was just being a truth teller. So now fast forward to this morning, he says no, no, it's just sarcasm.

But this is not the first time he's tried to walk back comments by saying it was sarcasm. Just a couple of weeks ago, after coming under fire for essentially asking Russia -- calling on Russia to hack Hillary Clinton's e-mails, at that time he said he was just being sarcastic. So this seems to be Trump's way of kind of apologizing without actually apologizing because it's not -- it's something that he does not like to do.

But the fact of the matter is, the damage is done. You can't, as they say, un-ring a bell. You can't call back the bullet after firing this shot over and over and over again. It's this sort of thing that has raised concerns among a lot of Republicans about the direction of Trump's campaigns and we've seen reporting, denied so far by the Republican National Committee. They deny this report that they're considering shifting money away from the presidential race and to these down-ballot Senate and House races.

They said that's not happening, but it's led to concerns. Here's Trump responding to those reports about this possible moves by the RNC.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: But I'm the one that's funding. I'm the one that's raising the money. And other people are getting to use the money that I raise. So I'll have to do is stop funding the Republican Party. I'm the one raising the money for them. In fact, right now, I'm in Orlando. I'm going to the fundraiser for the Republican Party. So if they want to do that, they can save me a lot of time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JONES: So there is Trump threatening the RNC if they were to do -- I want to be clear now, they are not saying they're planning to do. But if the RNC were to make this move to shift money away from the presidential campaign to these down-ballot races, as a whole bunch of top Republicans are urging them to do, they've signed on to a letter asking them to do just that, Trump says, look, I'll stop raising money for you.

So here we are, another week that was dominated by these outrageous comments by the GOP nominee. We'll see what he says on the campaign trail in Pennsylvania today -- Erica.

HILL: We will be watching and listening. Athena Jones for us -- Athena, thank you.

To talk a little bit more about all of this, we're joined by our panel, CNN political commentator and Donald Trump supporter, Kayleigh McEnany, professor of political science, Jason Johnson.

Good to have both of you with us. Earlier this morning, another tweet that we saw from Donald Trump reads, "I love watching these poor pathetic people, pundits, on television, working so hard and so seriously to try and figure me out. They can't."

We are of course now three months out from the election.

Jason, at this point what is the benefit to Donald Trump as a candidate in remaining such a mystery, not just to the pundits but to the voters?

[10:05:01] JASON JOHNSON, POLITICS EDITOR, THEROOT.COM: Well, I mean, you don't know what he's going to do and that keeps attention on him. I think the people who tend to really support Donald Trump, they like the fact that he's unexpected. They like the fact that he doesn't sound like a politician.

I think the greatest mistake he can make, and that I think he has made in the last couple of weeks is that he is constantly backtracking. And one thing that makes him original is that Donald Trump says he's a straight shooter. So if he says that Barack Obama -- President Obama founded ISIS then give us some proof. But if he keeps saying things and backing up, it makes him seem less authentic.

HILL: Makes him seem less authentic. And Kayleigh, as we know now, Donald Trump is saying that he was just being sarcastic about all of this. But fellow Trump supporters came on to defend those original comments. Let's take a quick listen to some of those.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTTIE NELL HUGHES, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Conservatives do believe that it was the irresponsible planning of pulling out of troops by this administration and Hillary Clinton that led to the creation of ISIS.

RUDY GIULIANI, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Well, it is true in the sense that before Obama, ISIS was a almost unknown small little organization. He even called it the JV.

REP. MICHAEL BURGESS, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: The cauldron was set. The dials were all twisted in the proper direction to allow this to happen.

JACK KINGSTON, DONALD TRUMP ADVISER: But the reality is, when Barack Obama left Iraq without a statement of forces and collapsed the international coalition it gave rise to ISIS.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: So first Donald Trump doubles down repeatedly. Then he says it's sarcasm.

But, Kayleigh, he's got all these people out there speaking on his behalf, helping to double down on those initial comments. You know, what's that like for you? Does the sarcasm bother you?

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think two things are going on. He was being both serious and sarcastic. I think those two things are comportable in this way. Look, he's sarcastic in the sense that Barack Obama is the founder of ISIS, his name's on the document, that was sarcasm. Of course his name's not on the founding documents.

Is he serious in the sense that Barack Obama is the unintentional founder of ISIS because he opened a gaping hole in the Middle East, that they took advantage of and grew to 40,000 strong? Yes, that is very serious.

But you know what's great about this comment is that for the first time this week we actually get to talk about ISIS. We get to talk about the fact that every single poll show voters trust Donald Trump to handle ISIS, not Hillary Clinton. So, look, I think it was both serious and sarcastic. We can get into semantics. Was Barack Obama the creator, the contributor, was he the founder? Look, that doesn't matter. What matters is voters trust Donald Trump to handle ISIS.

HILL: It doesn't matter that those were his exact words? He said multiple times he is the founder.

MCENANY: And he is the founder in the sense that he opened a hole in the Middle East and ISIS grew to 40,000 strong. He was the unintentional founder of ISIS. Was he the actual founder of ISIS with his name on the document? No. If you take it that way, that is sarcasm. If you take it as being the unintentional founder of ISIS, that is, in fact, serious.

HILL: I want to bring in now Taryn Rosenkranz as well, to our discussion. She of course is a Democratic strategist, and a supporter of Hillary Clinton.

There is increased talk about ISIS and Kayleigh brings up some interesting points about how different voters feel about this. Donald Trump is consistently trying to hit Hillary Clinton on her time at the State Department and the way she's handled ISIS. The Clinton campaign of course is pulling up national security as her main strength. But in some ways, it's looking more and more like an Achilles heel.

How much of a concern is this for the campaign at this point, Taryn?

TARYN ROSENKRANZ, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, I think it's a concern for the American people, first and foremost, with Trump acting this way. I mean, it's completely reckless for him to make these kinds of statements. And I think that it seems he's almost allergic to the truth as he's going back and forth and kind of making these outrageous claims. And I think that's, you know, chipping away at people's perceptions of him. I really do.

I mean, if he is going to continue to kind of give a response that my children would give, oh, I was just being sarcastic, I didn't mean to, back and forth on very serious topics like ISIS and national security, and how we're protecting ourselves and making these outrageous and reckless comments, I think all he's showing is that he's completely unfit. And I think the American people will see that.

HILL: Taryn, he's talking specifically in many instances about the rise of ISIS while Hillary Clinton was in the State Department. How do you counter that?

ROSENKRANZ: Well, I think that there is a lot of good things that have happened during her time and tenure in the State Department, including the capture of Osama bin Laden. And I think that we need to really focus on the fact that yes, this was a rise. I don't think anyone can say that they have not been working and during her tenure was working and that President Obama has been working to combat the forces of ISIS and to continue to try to keep us safe.

HILL: Jason, there was a scathing piece from "The New York Times" editorial board this morning about Donald Trump's behavior about the campaign. Part of what they write, saying, quote, "Right now Mr. Trump is losing and this very likely terrifies him. Perhaps he's given up on winning through civil means and doesn't care about the consequences of his campaign of incitement."

There's been a lot said about inciting people at rallies, about fanning the flames of racism, among other issues. How is it helping Donald Trump to only play at his base, though?

[10:10:02] If he's only going after those folks and he's only continuing to fuel that fire, how is he going to get himself to the White House?

JOHNSON: Well, he's not. And the problem is that most of what he's saying, if he can't back it up and he can't connect it to how he's actually going to run the government, people aren't going to be happy. You know, to say that President Obama caused ISIS is the same thing as saying, well, Trump started the housing crisis because he had a couple of bad land deals. It doesn't make much sense. But if you keep using this sort of racist and hostile invective -- and here's what's key.

It doesn't matter if that's what Donald Trump intends it to be. If people hear it as racist, if people hear it as violent, it's his responsibility as a candidate to clarify. And if you keep cleaning it up, and if you keep explaining, it means you're losing. He's on a suicide squad mission right now and I don't know if he's going to be able to pull out of it in the next 90 days.

HILL: Kayleigh McEnany, Jason Johnson, Taryn Rosenkranz, appreciate all of you being with us today. Thanks again.

JOHNSON: Thanks.

MCENANY: Thanks.

HILL And still to come --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you are a traitor.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: The media getting an earful from Donald Trump and his supporters.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:15:26] HILL: Donald Trump's battles with the Republican establishment and Hillary Clinton have been constant themes throughout his campaign. There's another favorite target, though, of the Republican candidate and his team, the media.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: The biggest rigger of the system is the media. The media is rigged. It's rigged. It's crooked as hell.

GOV. MIKE PENCE (R), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I mean, I got to be honest with you, the media is so busy lying about Donald Trump, it's like they don't have time to tell the truth about Hillary Clinton.

GIULIANI: It's a pattern of the press exaggerating what he says.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: He says the media is doing this to me. The media is rigged. Do you think my coverage is rigged?

GIULIANI: No, I don't think yours is, but I think a lot of coverage is rigged.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: That anti-media anger is also being felt by some of Trump's supporters. CNN producer Noah Greg getting an up-close view at a Florida rally last night. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (EXPLETIVE DELETED) traitor. I am a patriot and you are a traitor.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Here now to discuss CNN media and politics senior reporter Dylan Byers, CNN media analyst Bill Carter and by phone, CNN Politics reporter Jeremy Diamond.

Jeremy, I want to start with you because you were in that room last night. You've been covering Trump's campaign for a while. How would you characterize the hostility that we just saw from that man there? That type of hostility toward the media? Is that typical or was that gentleman a little bit more out of bounds?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN POLITICS REPORTER (via phone): Well, the incident that we saw last night with that man is certainly something that we've seen replicated, you know, at other times at Trump rallies. You know, that man essentially calling us traitors, telling us to pack our bags and get out of the country. That language was especially vitriolic and especially harsh but it's not like this isn't an incident that we have seen replicated in similar ways. You know we have repeatedly at Trump rallies Trump supporters coming by the media pen at the end of the rally to say that we're dishonest, to tell us to report the truth.

And it varies in degrees of course. But, you know, this by no means is the man last night representative of all Trump supporters but this is the kind of behavior that comes out and that essentially can become normalized, you know, when you have a presidential candidate who is during his rallies repeatedly calling out the media as the worst human beings on earth, a scum and who was calling on his supporters during each rally to boo the media behind them.

You know, you have almost every single Trump supporter in a room with one of these rallies with thousands of people turning around and booing the press that is in the room. And we've seen also individual reporters called out. So it's certainly behavior that we've seen. By no means is that man last night representative of every single Trump supporter but it certainly is representative of the kind of anti- media, you know, feelings and sentiments that Trump is drawing out when he calls the press rigged and when he calls reporters, you know, among the worst human beings in the world.

HILL: Bill, there have always been candidates and there always will be people who don't like the media, right?

BILL CARTER, MEDIA ANALYST: Yes .

HILL: People don't like it when we do our job. But we are hearing more and more of this. NBC's Katie Tur just wrote a piece for "Marie Claire."

CARTER: Yes.

HILL: And one of the things she said -- she talked about the scene in South Carolina in December. He singled her out. He's called her a third rate reporter before. Play it out to voters --

CARTER: Little Katie. Yes.

HILL: Little Katie.

CARTER: Yes.

HILL: And says to her, the crowd, she writes, feeding off Trump seemed to turn on me like a large animal, angry and unchained. It wasn't until hours later when Secret Service took the extraordinary step of walking me to my car that the incident sank in. And I have to tell you.

CARTER: Yes.

HILL: She told me about this incident personally. Sitting in makeup with her. She's recounting it and I said, this must seem like a bad dream.

CARTER: Well, you can see how frightened you can be if you're in a mob scene and basically Trump gins up his audience very effectively. He's good at it. But the irony of this to me is that the guy has used the media in a genius way throughout this campaign. I mean certainly during the Republican campaign.

He was on the air constantly. And the media was his vessel. And now he's not doing that well and the media's calling him on certain things and he's turning on them. Republicans have never lost a vote, ever, by attacking the media. So that is always a universal them. But at this level, the hostility is really getting a little scary.

HILL: It is getting a little scary. It's also -- you bring up fact- checking.

And, Dylan, you know, this is part of what we do as journalists, we need to fact-check. It doesn't matter which side you're on. That's part of our job, to fact check. It's getting more and more difficult it would seem in certain areas for the media to do its job, to be seen as being objective and looking into these facts because there's all this talk of bias and of being rigged.

[10:20:07] How much is that affecting the perception of the job that we're all doing?

DYLAN BYERS, CNN SENIOR MEDIA AND POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, I think in a major way, and I think what's happened here is, look, there's been a powder keg of anti-establishment sentiment that's been building up on the right in American politics for many decades. And of course one of the main targets of that frustration is the media.

Donald Trump has come in and thrown kerosene under that and lit a fuse. And if you are someone who goes out and lies all of the time and constantly says things that contradict what you may have said a day or an hour or a minute ago, there is no better way to inoculate yourself from the scrutiny that we provide as the media, from the fact-checking that we provide as the media, than to convince so many people who are already angry at the media, angry at the establishment, that we're terrible, that we're crooks, that we're -- you know, that we're part of a rigged system.

And you really have to -- you know, try and think about the kind of blinders that a Trump supporter has to put on to not see all of the contradictions and all of the hypocritical things that Donald Trump does when it comes to the facts and when it comes to telling the truth. And for me, you know, I really -- you think about how we covered this election. So often the media really tries to do its best, despite perceptions otherwise, do its best to present the news in a fair and balanced way. This election is really not becoming about, you know, two different

sides of the political spectrum. It's becoming about a difference between facts and falsehoods and the difference between seriousness in American politics and silliness.

HILL: I would also say -- Bill, I would make the case, there's also the seriousness of journalism. So part of the other issue that we're seeing in 2016 is people can find information anywhere they want. And then people talk themselves up to being perhaps, you know, a journalist when they're actually not.

How much is that inflaming this feeling?

CARTER: Well, that's part of it. I mean, let's face it, there's journalism that's official and now there's all kinds of unofficial information sources out there. And one of the things that you get, there's a conservative media as well. And they support Donald Trump. And basically their viewers have heard that view and it's very ideological.

I would argue that the coverage that is critical for Donald Trump is not partisan. It's somebody trying to say, well, we have to say whether this is true or not.

HILL: Right.

CARTER: We have to check that. And when you -- a partisan hears that, he thinks someone is biased and, therefore, they're going along with this point of view that it's rigged.

HILL: We should point out, too, it's not -- it's obviously not just Donald Trump and not just one side of the aisle.

CARTER: No.

(CROSSTALK)

HILL: There are plenty of people on the other side of the aisle.

CARTER: And believe me I think Hillary Clinton -- Hillary Clinton has tried to limit her coverage very severely because she doesn't want the kind of critical attention either.

HILL: Right. It'd be fascinating to see. It does make our job tougher but I guess it just spurs us on a little bit. Doesn't it?

CARTER: Yes.

HILL: Bill Carter, Dylan Byers, appreciate -- Jeremy Diamond had to leave us because his plane was taking off but glad he could be with us for a little bit off the top as well.

Still to come, Hillary Clinton is trying to force Donald Trump's hand or at the very least, his tax returns. How she's using Trump's own words against him, that's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:27:42] HILL: Good Friday morning. I'm Erica Hill in for Carol Costello today. Thanks so much for joining me.

Hillary Clinton is putting the pressure on Donald Trump as early as today. The Democratic candidate says she'll release her 2015 taxes. That's a move she hopes will force Donald Trump to release his returns. He has said repeatedly that won't happen because he's being audited.

Chris Frates is following the story for us this morning from Washington. Chris, good morning.

CHRIS FRATES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, good morning, Eric. And you're exactly right, those Hillary Clinton tax returns could come as early as today. In fact just this morning, her campaign put out a new Web video slamming Donald Trump for refusing to release his returns.

Now this video, it features prominent Republicans like Mitt Romney and Mitch McConnell pressuring Trump to release his returns and raises questions about why the billionaire is refusing to put out his records. It even features a clip of Trump himself talking about tax returns.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TRUMP: So, you know, if you're running at a minimum probably you're going to have to show your returns. But if you didn't see the tax returns, you'd think there's almost like something wrong, what's wrong?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Donald can answer all of these questions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FRATES: Now that voice you heard at the end of the clip might sound a little familiar if you follow politics. It was GOP Senator Ted Cruz who of course ran against Donald Trump in the primaries and attacked Trump for not releasing his taxes.

Now Trump has said he's not releasing his taxes because he's being audited. But the IRS has said an audit does not prevent anybody from releasing their returns. In fact other politicians have released their returns during an audit and Trump himself has said that his taxes between 2002 and 2008 are no longer being audited. Yet he still refused to even release those returns.

So Clinton is going to continue hammering Trump on this lack of transparency. It's a pretty good issue for her. Last summer, she released eight years of returns and all of Clinton's tax returns since 1977 are now public record. So for instance we know that in 2014 she paid about 10 million bucks in taxes. And that was a federal tax rate of almost 36 percent. She and her husband made about $28 million and gave about $3 million to charity that year.

And her 2015 tax rate is expected to be about the same as 2014. Now -- but, you know, Erica, we know Trump has not released his returns so the public -- we don't know how much money he's made, we don't know how much he's given to charity so we can't match it up against the actual claims he's made. And we also don't know how much he's actually paid in taxes, Erica.

HILL: And that is another one of the big questions.