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Donald Trump Brings His Children To Breakfast With Governor Mike Pence; David Cameron Steps Down as British Prime Minister; Three of the Five Dallas Police Officers are Laid to Rest; Was the Dallas Police Attack A Hate Crime? Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired July 13, 2016 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[10:30:00] DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: And I'm going to actually pop in front of the camera right now because now we don't have a shot that I can block. But I just want to say that there's no question that Mike Pence is very much on the short list. That this is something that we have not seen from Donald Trump, making the effort to go onto somebody else's turf. To come to the residence, to have a quiet, dare I say, as normal as can be, normal breakfast.

And I want to -- well I'm going to bring in Sara in one second, but Sara Murray has also been doing some incredible reporting on this. But I think the bottom line that we have to remember here is that even though this happened, Donald Trump has not made a final decision. Because ...

ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: Right.

BASH: ... he is going to be speaking to another finalist, Chris Christie. And Ana before I throw it back to you I just want to bring in Sara, who has been doing reporting on the Chris Christie angle of this.

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Yes that's right. And I think that's one of the things we need to remember is it's very telling that Donald Trump showed up here with his -- all of his children to -- or many of his children -- to have breakfast with Mike Pence. But we are expecting him to speak to Governor Christie. And I have to imagine part of that call, I'm told by a Trump advisor, is sort of Christie's opportunity to give the last pitch. To say, "here's what you should keep in mind in your final hours of decision making before you finally decide which one of these folks you're going to go with."

And so we're going to see how this breakfast went, we'll be reaching out to our sources. And of course how the phone call went. But the hours are dwindling and at some point Trump is going to have to make a decision one way the other.

BASH: That's right because we have been reporting that at least right now, the plan is to make that announcement on Friday.

MURRAY: Right, and I'm still hearing that that is still the plan. That Donald Trump is still expected to go to California, to do a little bit of fundraising tomorrow. And then make this decision on Friday. Although as we learned last night and this morning, these plans are definitely subject to change.

BASH: And Ana as I toss it back to you, because Newt Gingrich and Chris Christie are both people who cover politics, even those who don't are national figures. Mike Pence is not. He is the sitting governor, he's in his first term. He's running for reelection in a very tight reelection race. The other bit of kind of the subplate here is that in order to get off the ballot and allow somebody else to run as a Republican for governor, it has to be by noon on Friday.

So that's the other reason why if Mike Pence is the guy, the timing and the window is very tight. But he is the governor, but he also, Ana, was in Congress for a dozen years. He was a member of the House Republican leadership, has relationships with the "establishment." But is also an Evangelical Christian, can talk the talk that Donald Trump just can't. And can -- at least people who are pushing for Pence, who we talked to inside the Trump camp, think that he is the guy who can help to begin to coalesce the fractured Republican base. Which still very much exists. But then need to really get out there.

And we're talking not just about Christian Conservatives, but so- called country club Republicans who don't think that Donald Trump is the right person to be President. Ana?

CABRERA: We did hear from Speaker Paul Ryan yesterday, also giving a big nod to Mike Pence. Saying that he's a good guy and would be a good Vice President if he were picked. Thank you so much Dana Bash and Sara Murray. We hope you'll stand by with us throughout the rest of the hour so we can come back to you for any breaking developments there on the ground. We appreciate it. And we will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:37:45]

CABRERA: Just moments ago you saw Donald Trump and his family leaving the Indiana Governor's Mansion here on CNN as he was just coming out of a meeting with Indiana Governor, Mike Pence. Who could be Donald Trump's Vice Presidential pick. We understand he's on a very short list and that announcement of who it's going to be should come in the next couple of days.

I want to bring in Bob Cusack who is the Editor in Chief of "The Hill." Before we talk more about this Vice Presidential pick, whomever he may be, I want you to listen to this sound with Mike Pence when he endorsed Ted Cruz back in May. Listen.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

MIKE PENCE (R), GOVERNOR OF THE STATE OF INDIANA: I'm going to support the Republican nominee. But my choice in the Indiana primary is Ted Cruz. Because I believe he's a principled conservative. Who, like me, cherishes and has fought for the Reagan agenda of less government, less taxes, traditional values, and a strong military. And I'm proud to stand with him.

(END AUDIO CLIP) CABRERA: All right Bob, clearly Donald Trump was not Mike Pence's first choice for President, or to be the nominee for the Republican Party. Is Mike Pence going to be Donald Trump's first choice, do you think?

BOB CUSACK, EDITOR IN CHIEF, "THE HILL": It looks like he's a favorite, Ana. I mean, Donald Trump definitely favors loyalty. And I asked him a while back, does -- "do you -- are you going to pick someone who backed you in the primary?" And he said, "not necessarily."

Now the way -- and politics (ph) is all about the way you do it. And Pence did back Cruz, but he said a lot of nice things about Donald Trump. I don't think Pence, at the time, was thinking that he could be a VP candidate. He might have been thinking about his reelection campaign in Indiana. But he was -- he said some very nice things about Trump. And Trump certainly took notice of those remarks.

CABRERA: We heard him in that clip also talk about how important conservative values are to Mike Pence. A lot of people say that's why Mike Pence would be a good choice for Donald Trump. Because he could help to maybe calm the fears of some of those establishment Republicans who say, "well Donald Trump's been all over the board when it comes to his positions. Is he a true conservative?"

Is he more advantageous in that department compared to some of these other Vice Presidential candidate picks that we've talked about? Like a Newt Gingrich or a Chris Christie?

CUSACK: Yes he's definitely a lot more conservative than Chris Christie. He's a fiscal conservative, he is a social conservative. He was a member of the Republican leadership but he is not an establishment Republican. He took on the establishment -- he took on President Bush on "No Child Left Behind," on Medicare prescription drug coverage.

So Mike Pence does, I think, offer some comfort to conservatives. But at the same time there are a lot of conservatives who are not comfortable with Trump at the top. However I do think Pence is very media savvy. When he was in Congress, in the halls of Congress, he would often say, "I'm a conservative, but I'm not angry about it."

He's not -- he does not make gaffes. And he obviously showed last night, going after Hillary Clinton, a pretty effective attack dog.

[10:40:40]

CABRERA: He has message discipline. You talk about the attack dog. That is a traditional Vice Presidential role. But you could argue, Donald Trump is his own attack dog. Does he really need that characteristic in his Vice Presidential pick?

CUSACK: Well I think he needs someone who can talk about policy a lot. Donald Trump is thinking big picture. He doesn't reveal a lot of specifics about his policies. Mike Pence, having served in Congress, was elected in 2000 and then went on to win the governorship in 2010. He knows a lot about policy and he can go deep on a lot of things that Donald Trump has proposed and possibly offer more specifics that people want.

So -- now I think there is a question of, does Mike Pence bring in the women vote? Does he help with the Hispanic vote? That doesn't look very good as far as Hispanic vote. But overall I think Mike Pence could be a good messenger. And clearly it all comes down to relationships and chemistry. Donald Trump wants someone that he can trust. And it looks like he does trust Mike Pence.

CABRERA: And we understand he'll also be speaking with his friend, Chris Christie, this afternoon, as well. So we're going to be keeping tabs on all of this. Bob Cusack, thank you very much.

CUSACK: Thank you.

CABRERA: Still to come, David Cameron bows out as Britain's Prime Minister. The advice he just gave to his successor coming up next.

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[10:46:20]

CABRERA: Next hour, David Cameron will leave Downing Street for the last time, to officially inform the Queen of his resignation. Earlier this morning he received a standing ovation as he closed out his final Cabinet meeting as Britain's Prime Minister. CNN's Max Foster is live in London now with more. Max?

MAX FOSTER, CNN ANCHOR: Ana he's going to leave in the next hour or so. He'll no longer be Prime Minister. He heads up to the palace for the traditional "kissing of hands," it's called. As he -- just a handshake between himself and the Queen of the United Kingdom. So he resigns there. And it will be shortly be followed by Theresa May, who will take on the Prime Ministership.

She'll head back here, she'll outline her thoughts in a speech behind me. And then she'll go into number 10, Downing Street as the first woman, since Margaret Thatcher, to be the Prime Minister.

So a big moment as she's going to try to reflect gender equality in her new Cabinet, as well. She wants to bring in as many women as possible, we understand. This could be interesting to see what sort of government she forms. At a time when she's very sensitive as Britain's leaving the European Union.

But this was how David Cameron handled things, and left his legacy in the final Prime Minister's question time, in the House of Commons, just a couple of hours ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID CAMERON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: I will miss the roar of the crowd. I will miss the bobs from the opposition. But I will be willing you on. The last thing I'd say, is that you can achieve a lot of things in politics. You can get a lot of things done. And that, in the end, the public service, the national interest, that is what it's all about.

Nothing is really impossible if you put your mind to it. Afterall, as I once said, I was the future, once.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: That was followed there by a standing ovation. Which they often see in Parliament, a normally, pretty feisty affair, as I know you know, Ana. Pretty famous for it here. But he did also -- there was a bit of backseat driving involved as well. He said that Britain should stay close to the European Union. And that was a message really, to Theresa May, who takes over from him.

She's got a big challenge on balancing that massive result in referendum. Which showed more than half the country wanted to leave the European Union, while she campaigned to stay in. It's pretty sensitive.

CABRERA: Yes, it's a tough time for her to step into that role. But best of luck, of course. Max Foster, thank you. Still to come, friends and families are preparing to say their final goodbyes to three of the Dallas police officers killed in that brutal sniper attack. But was the attack on Dallas police a hate crime?

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[10:51:46]

CABRERA: Today, Dallas police will say goodbye to three of their own. Private funeral services for Lorne Ahrens, Michael Smith, and Brent Thompson begin in just minutes. They were among five killed last week during that ambush sniper attack.

Sara Sidner is live in Dallas this morning. Sara, it's going to be another tough day for the community there.

SARA SIDNER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, this city is in mourning. And as you mentioned, those funerals are just about to get underway. And what we have here behind me is the memorial. Just to give you some idea what people think about this memorial, there have been lines of people coming each and every day.

And this memorial is growing bigger, and bigger, and bigger. We're going to give you a look at the memorial, coming up in just a bit.

CABRERA: Sara Sidner, we'll come back to you, thank you. I want to talk more about the situation in Dallas. Joining me now, CNN Law Enforcement Contributor, Steve Moore. He is a retired supervisory special agent for the FBI. And we're also joined by Senior Editor for Ebony, Jamilah Lemieux.

Jamilah, we'll start with you. Because the White House, yesterday, came out and made a pretty bold statement. Saying, President Obama considers the attack on Dallas police a hate crime. We know the killer specifically mentioned he wanted to kill white people, especially white police officers, according to law enforcement there. How do you feel about the President defining this as a hate crime?

JAMILAH LEMIEUX, EDITOR, "EBONY": You know I have to say, I would not describe hate crime as the most comfortable word choice, considering the circumstances. There's so much that we do not know about what took place, what motivated this person. We only have the one account of law enforcement, we haven't had the opportunity to really look into his history in a meaningful way.

When we use a phrase like "hate crime," we're typically referring to crimes against people of color, people of various religious groups, the LGBT people. People who have been historically attacked, abused, or disenfranchised on the basis of their identity. To now extend that to the majority group, and a group of people that has a history with African Americans that has been abused, then we can apply that to either police officers or to caucasians, I think gets into very tricky territory.

So I'd be curious to know if he was referring to this as a hate crime because he singled them out by race, or attempted to single them out by race. Or because they were police officers.

CABRERA: Steve, do you agree with that? The fact that this man was targeting white people, according to what he told police. Does that fit the definition of a hate crime?

STEVE MOORE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CONTRIBUTOR: It absolutely fits the definition of the hate crime. You can't just say that only certain groups are allowed to be hated. Only certain groups can have crimes designated as hate group -- hate crimes against them. That's racism.

What you're doing here is saying ...

LEMIEUX: That's not true.

MOORE: ... that -- the actual truth of the matter is that hate crimes are defined as a crime against a specific race -- doesn't list them -- gender, gender preference group, or membership in an organization. That's how it's defined. You can't just say if you're white, nobody can commit a hate crime against you. And this guy said, "I'm doing it because you're white, and I'm doing it because you're cops." That's race, and that's organization. It's a hate crime as far as legally, and it's a hate crime the way the FBI would investigate it.

CABRERA: Jamilah, we heard the President say yesterday say our nation isn't as divided as it seems. Is that true to you?

[10:55:15]

LEMIEUX: I have to respectfully disagree with the President. To get back to the point about hate crimes and to connect that with what the President said, I think that there is a tendency to be intellectually dishonest about race in this country. And I think it's something that people do to perhaps protect themselves and protect others. And it has not served us well.

You can't compare the hatred that certain white nationalist groups have had towards African Americans with the feelings that many African Americans feel about how we've been treated in this country, how we've been historically disenfranchised, how we've been abused on the basis of our race. There is absolutely no excuse for gunning down police officers. That is disgusting, that is just one of the most horrific things that someone can do. To take a life away from someone.

However, when we start to imply that we're all on equal footing here -- that African Americans and police officers have the same reasons to be distrustful of one another, and that all we need to do is simply find a way to heal, or to just talk this out -- then we're not being honest about the situation that people who look like me have been placed in in this country since we arrived here.

CABRERA: I mean but, Lemieux ...

LEMIEUX: Just the looks of certain (AUDIO BREAK) police officers (ph) -- yes?

CABRERA: I'm sorry to step on you there, I don't mean to. I really appreciate you joining us, as well as Steve Moore. Thank you both for your thoughts today. We'll have you back on to continue the conversation another time.

LEMIEUX: Thank you.

CABRERA: Thank you all for joining me today, I'm Ana Cabrera. We appreciate you being here with us. "AT THIS HOUR," with Berman and Bolduan starts after a quick break.

[10:56:50]

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