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Lessons after Dallas Shooting; Race and Police Tactics; Interview with James Blake. Aired 8:30-9a ET
Aired July 11, 2016 - 08:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[08:30:00] RON PINKSTON, PRESIDENT, DALLAS POLICE ASSOCIATION: We're going to continue to have conversations. We're going to still meet with the activists. And we're going to honor our fallen officers and do our job like they were, honorably and respectfully.
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: What do you say, Ron, to the notion that is driving part of this conversation that young black men are too often at risk when they come into police situations? Do you believe that? Do you believe that it is racial? And if so, what do you see as the fix?
PINKSTON: Well, I see as the fix is having positive dialogue. Here in Dallas, we've got Operation Blue Shield that started a year and a half ago and it started to have dialogue between the community and the law enforcement community. And that's how it's going to fix. You know, hate-filled conversations aren't going to -- to get us where we need to be in this country. It's only going to be both sides sitting down and listening to each other, not screaming at them, demanding something, but both sides sitting down together and having a positive dialogue.
CUOMO: Jaime, you deal with this. I mean you're the head of the Latino -- you know, the Dallas Police Association Latino community liaison and you deal with this. It's not just about blacks, it's about a lot of minority communities. You'll hear from Latinos that they don't feel that they're being treated the same way by police, whether or not they deal with a Latino police officer or a white police officer. What do you say?
JAIME CASTRO, FRIENDS WITH FALLEN SR. CPL. LORNE AHRENS: You know, just a few days before this all occurred, I had put out a post through social media asking the community, the Latino community, if they had any kind of doubts, worries, suggestions or even complaints to give me a call, to come to the DPA. Our doors are open to the public, to the activists or just anybody who has any kind of -- if you're worried about what you've seen or, hey, I don't agree with the way this officer did this, come talk to us. Come talk to us. Send me a message. Send me an e-mail. Our door will always be open at the DPA to sit down and talk things out. Having FaceBook wars, Twitter wars just gets us nowhere. And the way you need to do this is by sitting down. I'm trying to work with the consulates, meeting with them, teaching them, hey, look, this is how our equipment works, so that they understand the way our equipment works, the way our -- the way we are required to do our -- and the things that we're required to do at our job. CUOMO: I know it's very important to you that your friend, Lorne
Ahrens, is remembered for doing the job the right way and not for just how his life was taken. And we're happy to help you in that goal. And we're sorry to have to have this conversation under these circumstances. We know that funeral arrangements are this Wednesday for him and the family. And we appreciate both of you gentlemen being on NEW DAY today. Thank you.
PINKSTON: Thank you.
CASTRO: Thank you for having us
POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: So important to remember all of the fallen.
Let's talk about the politics of it as well, the recent police involved shootings impacting this 2016 election. Are voters -- are you, the voters, satisfied with how the presumptive nominees are handling this crisis, and, frankly, how they're talking about race relations in this country? We'll debate it, next.
[08:37:37] HARLOW: Welcome back to NEW DAY.
The recent tragedies in Dallas and Baton Rouge and Minnesota creating a new challenge for Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. Which candidate do you the voter feel is best prepared to leave this country through what are clearly divisive times?
CUOMO: Let's discuss with Christine and Corey. Joining us right now, vice chair of the New York State Democratic Party, Christine Quinn, who is a Clinton supporter, and former Trump campaign manager, Corey Lewandowski, who is still receiving severance from the Trump campaign and will be the chair of the New Hampshire delegation at the Republican Convention, and is also a CNN political commentator.
Quite the intro you now have today. (INAUDIBLE).
COREY LEWANDOWSKI, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: That's a lot. Wow.
CUOMO: All right, so, Christine, let's start with this. What is the role of a leader in this situation? Because we've had two different takes. One is, get out there, get in front and tell us how to be and tell us how to heal. The other is, relax, don't make everything about politics. What do you think should be done by Clinton and is she getting it done?
CHRISTINE QUINN, SUPPORTS HILLARY CLINTON: Well, I think you can -- and actually should be both of those things. You don't -- shouldn't make moments of such national tragedy about politics in the sense of a political candidate. But leading when you're in government or in politics is about helping the country heal, see the truth, affirm the truth, and then move to the solution that will change that truth to make the country and the people in our country in a better place. And I think Hillary Clinton, in her calm demeanor, in her experience, in her having worked out in the country for three decades or more trying to make this country a better place, has exactly that balance of affirming the truth, because if you deny the truth or argue it, you're really insulting people, but really also knows how to move us forward to a place where these kind of tragedies stop happening. And the first part of that, I believe, is moving forward with President Obama's recommendations on 21st century policing as quickly as possible. And we know in this race she's the candidate who's going to do that.
HARLOW: So let me pose this question to you, and that's the sort of dissatisfaction many Americans have with both candidates when it comes to the level of -- of hatred and rhetoric and prejudice that we're seeing in the United States. The Quinnipiac poll came out. It shows 61 percent of the election right now feels that this election as a whole, on both sides, has increased the hate and prejudice in this country.
[08:40:02] Corey, I point to you as someone who was on the Trump campaign. Sixty-seven percent of folks blame the Trump camp for that.
LEWANDOWSKI: Well, I think what you have, is you have Donald Trump, who is talking to people in a truthful manner. And I think sometimes what you find is, people want to hear political correctness. And that political correctness is something that hasn't solved problems over the last 30 years. And so with Donald Trump, what he says is what he feels. And what he says is, the American people are smart and they're articulate and you have to -- you have to address positions and tough issues head on. This is what Trump has done.
HARLOW: But these voters are talking about hate and prejudice. And they say this election has increased that in this country.
LEWANDOWSKI: No, what this election has done is brought people back into the political realm. For 30 years as a whole, some say the population has just given up on politics because Washington's been broken. And what you have now is you see in the Republican primaries, you see more people turning out to vote during that primary process than any time in the history of the country because people are finally reengaged or excited. Fourteen million people almost voted for Donald Trump. He won in 38 states, across the board from the northeast to the southwest. And the reason for that is because people want to take their country back again. They want to feel proud to be Americans again. That's something he's giving them. It's an honor to have someone like that.
QUINN: Let me just say, I don't think hate is something that does engage people in politics. Government is supposed to be about moving us to our best selves and our best moment of opportunity. And you can't say that Donald Trump has not said things and done things on this presidential campaign trail that are -- he's done things that are full of hate, and really beneath the role of president of the United States. His attack on Mexican-Americans, his attack on an American judge of Mexican origin saying he isn't qualified to rule in cases, his horrible stances on immigration, even the way he spoke to an African-American man at his rally, calling him my African-American.
LEWANDOWSKI: Whoa, hold on. Hold on. That's -- HARLOW: But that man came out -- let me just clarify. That man came out and said he was still a supporter and that that wasn't offensive to him. Just to be clear here.
QUINN: It doesn't matter. It's not appropriate. But I think it's --
LEWANDOWSKI: But -- but -- but -- but to be fair --
QUINN: No, wait, that is not an appropriate way to talk about another human being. My this, my that.
LEWANDOWSKI: Look --
QUINN: It speaks to a lack of a sense of the importance of the president of the United States --
CUOMO: All right --
QUINN: Being a uniter. And the Mexican comments he's made about Mexican-American are nothing but hate fueled. And that goes without even bringing up what he said about Muslim-Americans.
CUOMO: All right, Corey, counter -- counter the point (ph).
LEWANDOWSKI: If you look at this -- if you look at this and you look at the election results and where the polls stand right now, Donald Trump is doing better with Hispanics. He's going to win Hispanics. He employs thousands of Hispanics. He said the Mexican government is too smart to (INAUDIBLE) -- is they're too smart. They're taking advantage --
HARLOW: What poll are you talking about, Corey?
LEWANDOWSKI: There was a poll out last week that shows this.
HARLOW: But what poll? I mean you're going to cite the poll. What -- what's the --
LEWANDOWSKI: The Q (ph) poll. It's the Q poll. (INAUDIBLE)
HARLOW: And it shows that he's --
LEWANDOWSKI: That he's --
QUINN: I don't think they're talking about --
LEWANDOWSKI: He's got 33 -- 33 percent --
HARLOW: Across the board and in general winning with Hispanics?
LEWANDOWSKI: Thirty-three percent. He's winning in Hispanics, which if you look at what Mitt Romney received or John McCain, he's way, way above where they were. Way above.
CUOMO: he's not saying that he's going to win Hispanics. He's saying he's going to --
HARLOW: (INAUDIBLE) because you're talking about on the Republican (INAUDIBLE).
CUOMO: You're saying he's (INAUDIBLE) above the threshold that a Republican needs.
HARLOW: But that's not what you said.
LEWANDOWSKI: But -- but the other part is this -- the other part is this. The way Mr. Trump talks, anybody who knows him, and I know him very well, he'd say, my Corey. You're my Corey. That's a term of endearment. It's not a pejorative term. It's a term that means, I want you as part of my team. That's what I want. And so for someone to take that out of context and say something other than that, you know, they don't know (INAUDIBLE) moot point.
CUOMO: All right. There's a -- there's a point here that's worth making, though, that you should address, Christine. What Corey says about PC and how it can get people in trouble and it winds up allowing us to not focus on what matters, the Clintons got hit over the head with this. What Hillary Clinton said about predators, when it was coming to the crime bill early on, she got all this stink, Democrats couldn't apologize enough. Even Clinton apologized, right? And they're not in the business of apologizing very often. She said I was wrong, I was wrong, but she wasn't wrong because what they were talking about was that there was a lot of crime coming out of these black communities and that had to be realized because that's what the police deal with. But the Democrats ran away from that reality because they said, well, it's too offensive. But it happens to be true that you have high crime there. And if you want to talk about the truth, don't you have to see both sides of that truth?
QUINN: I think you have to see all sides of the truth and you also have to attempt to see all sides of the truth from the way other people see it as well, right? The way I experience truth, the way I experience policing as a white American is very different than a black American. What I feel sometimes when I see the police at different times in my life as a lesbian is different than what a straight woman might feel. Now that's not -- and in New York, I want to give the police credit, tremendous progress in the LGBT area. But truth is a -- is a large concept, if you think about it, and we all bring our own view to it.
But, you know, let's go back to Mr. Trump for a second.
CUOMO: Well, do it quickly, because we've got to go.
QUINN: Yes. Whatever on the my comment, but what he said about Muslims, that was not endearing. What he said about Mexicans --
CUOMO: All right.
QUINN: Is not bringing into the fold. And that was a misrepresentation of the Q poll.
HARLOW: The conversation will continue. We'll tweet that poll out. Christine, Corey, thank you very much.
Coming up next, he was tackled and arrested by police in New York City last year in a case of mistaken identity. You will remember this video well. Now retired tennis star James Blake speaking out about excessive force and the recent police involved shootings. Hear from him, next.
[08:47:47] HARLOW: Retired tennis star James Blake received a public apology from New York City Police after a dramatic arrest last September. You'll remember this video when an NYPD officer tackled him after mistaking him for a fraud suspect. An independent panel later found the officer did use excessive force and since then Blake has become active in the fight against police brutality. He joins us now from London. He is there covering Wimbledon.
Thank you so much for being with us. I appreciate it.
And let's just talk about your perspective of the events of the past week as we begin a new week in America, a divided America, no question. Your reaction to the killings of young black men in Minnesota, in Baton Rouge, and the execution of five police officers in Dallas?
JAMES BLAKE, FORMER PROFESSIONAL TENNIS PLAYER: Well, the killings, of course, are tremendous tragedy that we all need to be mourning the lives lost. The innocent lives lost. As far as the protests go, I think they are a positive step. When you're -- when you're using your freedom of speech to effect change in a positive way and done in a peaceful manner, I think that is a great effort and a great cause. Unfortunately, they were severely marred by the lone wolf shooter that, as you said, executed five police officers. And that's -- that should never be indicative of an entire movement by -- of peaceful protests that are going on across the country, you know, shouldn't be associated with -- with one deranged individual that had -- that had different thoughts and different tactics to affect change. And that's not the way anyone should ever affect change is through violence.
HARLOW: You, after the incident where you were tackled to the ground by an NYPD officer, you met with Commissioner Bratton of the NYPD, with Mayor Bill de Blasio here in New York City, and talked to them about specific changes. And now is the time for change to be implemented. How do we move past a conversation to action? What is it that you discussed with them that you would like to see change?
BLAKE: Well, I think a couple of the biggest points for me in terms of the change for the police officers is one is accountability. We saw two videos of cops -- what seemed to be obviously acting in the wrong. And there needs to be an accountability factor. They need to be brought to trial, due process has to be taken, but we need to find out exactly what happened and delve into those videos and find out what the punishment should be, whether there should be criminal charges as well, because there shouldn't be a way of shielding them because they're police officers. They're still human beings. And if they commit a crime, they still need to be held accountable.
[08:50:27] And I think there just possibly needs to be more training. I'm not a police expert in the training that they do, but it seems that there's -- there's at times they're a little bit more on edge. And, you know, for me personally, in my opinion, that's because there are so many weapons out there, there are so many weapons, military- style weapons, that can overpower police officers as well, and weapons accessible to people that are unfit to carry weapons. And I think that -- that could change. If that changes, I think that's going to help the police and society react to each other in a more responsible and a more collegial manner.
HARLOW: I think some of the images that we've seen coming out of Baton Rouge, coming out of Minneapolis, have been striking and a lot of people have -- have said, wow, this looks a lot like the mid 1960s to them. Obviously (INAUDIBLE) is not on fire, Newark, Detroit, the riots aren't the same, but a lot of people say it feels akin to that.
When it comes to the Black Lives Matter movement, you've re-tweeted individuals like John Legend, Beyonce, who are supporters of the movement. Are you a supporter of the movement?
BLAKE: I'm a supporter from afar. I wouldn't say that I'm a -- I'm a member of any sort of, you know, union or anything like that. But I do feel that a lot of their points are well taken and well put. I haven't met with any of the organizers. I haven't, you know, pledged any sort of allegiance to anyone or anything like that, but I do feel like Black Lives Matter is a hashtag and is something that is important and it's -- it's one where I think it's long overdue because what's been happening to black lives, black men in particular, by some police officers by, you know, the public in general, you know, that -- that the racism is on front pages and headlines because of the violence that has taken place with the police officers, but it happens every day in business, it happens in sports, it happens in every other arena. It's just when it's physical violence is when it's the most notable and the most pinned for headlines.
HARLOW: Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani making headlines this morning for some of his comments on "Face the Nation" on CBS yesterday. I want you to listen to part of it, speaking about the Black Lives Matter movement.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: When you say "black lives matter," that's inherently racist.
JOHN DICKERSON, CBS ANCHOR: Well, I think their argument is --
GIULIANI: Black lives matter. White lives matter. Asian lives matter. Hispanic lives matter. That's anti-American and it's racist.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: James, what's your response to that? BLAKE: It's just shocking that someone that's ever held public office
or that's gotten to anywhere that he's gotten in his life that can have that kind of view on it because Black Lives Matter is something where -- we're persecuted, we're dealt racist blows everyday of our lives. And for him to say that it -- and to cheapen it by saying white lives matter would be considered racist or Black Lives Matter is racist. It's just so unknowing, someone that's so -- has blinders on to the fact that -- that black men, black women were treated so differently in everyday life, that it's -- it's really sad to think that someone is saying that. And I -- I don't know if he has any ulterior motive for saying that, but it's just -- you know, I equate it to -- to -- if someone says they're -- they're at a dinner table and they're hungry and you say, well, everyone's hungry, it's OK, but then everyone else has been fed while everyone's still hungry. No, it's the person that doesn't have the food. It's the person that -- that's out of the loop that's not getting the same benefits that they are that very much white America is getting the benefits of, you know, it's been talked about white privilege, of just not being afraid of police officers, not being, you know, held back in business, not -- not getting the same benefits is what black men and women are going through every day.
HARLOW: James, what about your personal experience before this handcuffing, the mistaken identity incident in New York City that happened to you when you were tackled to the ground by a police officer? Did you have any encounters with police as a young black man coming up?
BLAKE: Yes, and especially a young black man that I was an athlete, so I had some financial success from an early age and so I had a few nice cars and I recognize that I was pulled over a lot more frequently than my white friends, and for seemingly doing nothing. And I was pulled over before with guns drawn. You know, with police officers with their hand on their weapon.
[08:55:00] And, you know, then I had some success on tour and when I first had some success on the tennis tour, I found out that there are now death threats to my parents, and we had to have the FBI involved. And that's something that I think about when I'm -- when I'm facing a big match and I have to worry if I win this match, is there going to be more death threats, are there going to be things going on? And I know that's something that, you know, Andy Roddick, Mardy Fish, those, you know --
BLAKE: The white athletes in our sport don't have to go through. And it's another reason why I'm so amazed that players like Serena Williams, people that were the real trail blazers --
BLAKE: Like Hank Aaron and Arthur Ashe that went through so much worse every single day of their lives. And, you know, Arthur Ashe said that his greatest difficulty in life, his greatest hurdle, was being born black in America, not facing HIV and AIDS, you know, a fatal illness. It was more difficult to face being black and it makes sense to me for seeing what he went through.
HARLOW: Let's talk about Serena Williams and what she said, because she has spoken out against violence and she said -- let me read it. "I do have nephews that I'm thinking, do I have to call them and tell them, don't go outside. If you get in your car, it might be the last time I see you." She went on to say, "also, obviously, violence is not the answer of solving it. The shooting in Dallas is very sad." And she goes on to end by saying, "we are all human." What do you think the impact is, someone of her stature, speaking out like this?
BLAKE: I think it does have impact and I think she's someone that's been touched by violence in her family. Her half-sister, Yetunde Price, was killed senselessly as well. And so she knows what it's like. And it's just -- like she said, violence is never the answer. So, speaking out, speaking out peacefully, giving your opinion, even when you disagree with your opinion, I vehemently disagree with Rudy Giuliani, but I have -- give him the respect of, he has his opinion and we're all allowed to state it and doing it in a peaceful manner, being able to debate and talk about it and that's why I think the peaceful protests that are going on are very important and, you know, I don't know if Serena was back there, she would participate in any of those --
BLAKE: But I think that's also very important. And her voice carries so much more weight. And people like her and John Legend, people speaking out, it's important. And then we need to stay on it. It can't be something that is gone in a week and we're forgotten about it and it becomes just an afterthought.
HARLOW: I appreciate your time, James, on such an important issue, joining us from London. Thank you so much. We appreciate it.
NEWSROOM with Ana Cabrera, in for Carol Costello today, picks up right after this.
[09:00:00] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CROWD: No justice. No peace. No justice. No peace.