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11 Dallas Officers Shot, 4 Killed, Stand Off with Suspect; Dramatic Video of Dallas Shooting. Aired 2-3a ET

Aired July 8, 2016 - 02:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[02:00:00] DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: I want you to take a look as we are about to go off the air, this broad cast, the front page of the "Dallas Morning News," and the headline is "Ambush," with a photo of a grief-stricken Dallas police officer at the hospital where some of the wounded officers were taken.

Make sure you stay with CNN overnight for the latest on this. I'm Don Lemon.

Our coverage continues right now with John Vause and Isha Sesay.

Good morning.

JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, and welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. I'm John Vause.

ISHA SESAY, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Isha Sesay.

Breaking news out of Dallas, Texas.

VAUSE: Four officers have been shot dead and at least snipers fired from an elevated position during a peaceful protest.

SESAY: In total, 11 officers were shot and at least one civilian was wounded, as well. Police have three people in custody, including a woman.

This is what it sounded like from a nearby apartment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(SIREN)

(GUNFIRE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my god. There's people laying on the ground. I hope they're just --

(GUNFIRE)

(EXPLETIVE DELETED).

(GUNFIRE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somebody is really armed to the teeth. This is not -- this is not one person.

(GUNFIRE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a person --

(GUNFIRE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my god. It can't be --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: One suspect is now cornered in a parking garage, and this is how the police chief described the ongoing negotiations.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID BROWN, CHIEF, DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT: Currently, we are in negotiations with a suspect involved in the shootings at the garage of El Centro in downtown Dallas. This suspect we're negotiating with for the last 45 minutes has been exchanging gunfire with us and not being cooperative in the negotiations. Before I came here, I asked for plans to end this standoff. And as soon as I'm done here I'll be presented with those plans.

In addition to this second-floor garage, as we recap the previous press release, we have in custody a female who was in the same area of the El Centro Garage. And we followed a Mercedes with two suspects who had camouflage bags who officers end up stopping on traffic in the Oak Cliff area near Polk and 67th and they are in custody and being interviewed.

The suspect that we are negotiating with that has exchanged gunfire with us over the last 45 minutes has told our negotiators that the end is coming and he's going to hurt and kill more of us, meaning law enforcement, and that there are bombs all over the place in this garage and in downtown. So we are being very careful in our tactics so that we don't injury or put any of our officers in harm's way, including the citizens of Dallas, as we negotiate further.

We still don't have a complete comfort level that we have all the suspects. So we will continue a very, very rigorous investigation and search of downtown. We'll likely to be working throughout the early morning hours of Friday, until we are satisfied that all suspects have been captured and have an opportunity to be interviewed so that we can fully understand what's motivated this attack on our officers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: That is the scene right now in Dallas as the police chief was talking. But this was the moment, at the end of a peaceful protest, when the gunfire erupted. Hundreds had turned out to demonstrate the police shooting of two African-American Americans earlier this week. And this video shows the chaos on the ground as the bullets started firing.

SESAY: Yeah. The police say a bomb squad has secured this suspicious package earlier on. But you heard from the police chief just a short time ago that they are still making searches in and around downtown after this cornered suspect said that they had planted bombs everywhere.

VAUSE: Everywhere, in his words.

SESAY: Here is a look at the front page of "Dallas Morning News." We want to show you this.

VAUSE: The headline reads, "Ambush," along with a powerful photograph of a woman comforting a police officer after the shootings.

Ashley Landis is a photographer with the "Dallas Morning News." She joins us now on the line.

Ashley, downtown Dallas is now considered a massive crime scene. What's happening there right now?

[02:05:04] ASHLEY LANDIS, PHOTOGRAPHER, DALLAS MORNING NEWS (voice- over): Well, right now -- hello, by the way. Right now, everything is pretty in order. I think everybody -- or the police are still sweeping the city. That's what it looks like to me, anyway. They're -- most of the people have gone home, figured out ways to go home but, of course, there are tons and tons of vehicles stranded. So a lot of people have taken quite a while for everyone to clear out.

SESAY: Ashley, you mentioned that the police are sweeping the area. Talk to me about what you're able to see. What are they doing? What does it look like to you from your vantage point?

LANDIS: I see teams of SWAT officers with, you know, full gear, shields, everything, going from building to building, parking garages, just looking through and making sure -- this is total speculation on my part. I haven't talked to a police officer. That just looks like what they're doing. I'm standing in a parking lot and I have been for a couple hours that I've seen them go from building to building to make sure everything is secure and that they're not looking for another shooter.

VAUSE: Ashley, you were at the protest earlier tonight when the shooting began. Can you describe what that scene was like?

LANDIS: Yeah. I was out in the middle of the pack. There were, hike you said, several hundred people there. And it was very peaceful. I didn't see any threats of any kind and so I was about middle of the pack when all of a sudden everyone turned around and just started running towards me. So I just kind of tried not to get trampled. But I didn't hear gunfire at first, so if I know if it was someone react to go a fight or maybe a back fire of a car or something like that. And so as I got closer and I saw more police officers running towards the scene, I heard gunfire, and I was around the corner, there was a parking garage right there. Not the same, the El Centro Parking Garage, but it was a different one. There were already officers trying to secure the building. So they swept us out. Everyone, made sure they were safe and swept us out and across the street and progressively pushed us back from that. But it was definitely mass chaos for a while.

SESAY: Yeah. And I understand you saw people being trampled in the chaos?

LANDIS: I didn't see anyone trampled, but it was the kind of situation that can have gotten terrible really quickly from -- I mean, more terrible than it already was. But I didn't see anyone hurt. It seems like everyone got away from the area fairly safely. But, you know, it was still very chaotic. Everyone was running from the scene.

VAUSE: Ashley Landis, a photographer for the "Dallas Morning News" joining us on the line from Dallas with the very latest.

Ashley, thank you very much.

SESAY: Yeah, thanks, Ashley. Appreciate that.

We're about to show you dramatic video of the shooting in downtown Dallas as it began to unfold. The video was shot by Michael Kevin and shows police run, guns pulled out. You can hear more gunshots and towards the end, you see an officer on the ground.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(GUNFIRE)

MICHAEL KEVIN, WITNESS: Holy (EXPLETIVE DELETED). Holy (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

(GUNFIRE)

KEVIN: They're shooting right now and there's an officer down. It's coming from the right over there, from around these buildings. I don't know where, Main Street and Lamar. This is Main Street and Lamar.

(GUNFIRE)

KEVIN: There's an officer down. They're moving in on somebody. I think they might have got somebody.

Don't worry. I'm behind a -- I'm behind a tree.

I think another officer is down around the corner over here. They got SWAT over here. I can't really -- I can't really get any closer.

I'm safe, man. Don't worry about it.

I appreciate it, though. I love y'all.

So they just dragged one of the officers up into this police car right here. And there's somebody else down over there. You can see around this corner. I don't know if y'all can see that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of there. Get out of there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of the street. Get out of the street.

KEVIN: They're telling me to go. I gotta go.

I got everything, man. I got everything.

All right. I'm going to have to switch over to another thing -- another app because I gotta pay my -- I've got to get my bosses in on this, all right? I love y'all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[02:11:09] VAUSE: Joining us now in Los Angeles, CNN's law enforcement contributor, former FBI agent, Steve Moore; and former FBI counterterrorism agent, Tim Clemente.

SESAY: Also with us, civil rights attorney, Areva Martin.

Thank you to all of you.

Steve, start with you.

Looking at that video we just shared with the viewers, you look at that and what jumps out at you?

STEVE MOORE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CONTRIBUTOR: What I -- what I see are uniformed officers not knowing where the shots are coming from. That is standard when you have a sniper somewhere. They've got high ground and you can get a quadrant, you know. Maybe they're coming from you in this 180 degrees, but that's all you know and so you're having to stay basically on the ground, low. And you don't even know if you can pop up to take a look because the sniper could take you out.

VAUSE: Tim, we have a situation now where one of the suspects is cornered in a commercial parking garage. The chief of police in Dallas said he wanted a plan to bring that to an end. What are his options rights now?

TIM CLEMENTE, FORMER FBI COUNTERTERRORISM AGENT: The police option is to try to keep this guy alive if possible. He's obviously a threat not only to the police but to the public at large. So you have to balance that. The benefit of keeping him alive long enough to find out if there are other shooters, what other accomplices might be involved, if there are IEDs, where they might be located, and how to disabled them, or who has command and control of those devices. What you don't have to do is kill this guy. Maybe he has a death wish, and that's the way he wants it to end. But if he does die, are other people going to be in greater danger when he dies?

VAUSE: They're exchanging gunfire.

(CROSSTALK)

CLEMENTE: Clearly, it's not a normal negotiation. He's probably not going be very helpful. But the police have the ability to use their own snipers. Dallas SWAT team was out, as we saw, with their armored vehicles. They would have a great sniper capability. I was a sniper for the FBI. Law enforcement snipers are very well trained, but they're very specific in their usefulness. They are not given green light and just kill anybody. It has to be a very specific reason why you're going the take somebody out and that's the immediate threat to other people's lives or your own life.

SESAY: And, Steve, the threat is not just posed by this individual that they're trying to get under control, but also the threat he's made that there are bombs that he's placed in and around downtown Dallas.

MOORE: Sure. The problem with that is no bombs have gone off and, by now, in the middle of an attack, you would suspect that some might have gone off already. So the longer it goes without any kind of sign of an IED, the less you're believing this.

And Tim is right, how often do you have two snipers on your board here? The police could have taken them already. They could have him if they wanted him. He's got no hostages and they've got an armored vehicle. This could have been over. This is how much care they're trying to try and take him alive. For the intelligence reasons, that Tim discussed, and so that it dispels some of the myth that all police are trying to kill people.

VAUSE: Areva, to you, we still don't know motivation for this attack. We still don't know who carried out this attack. But right now, people are making a lot of assumptions. Why should we be careful or why should people not to assume too much at this stage?

AREVA MARTIN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY & WOMEN'S RIGHTS ADVOCATE: Oh, I think we have to be extremely careful. As I watched the press conference with the police chief web never made an association between the protests over the police shootings in Baton Rouge and Minneapolis with what's happening on the ground there in Dallas. He talked about some of the things that they know about the shooters, but he never made a direct correlation. And we have to be cautious.

What I know about the peaceful protesters all around this country who have been out trying to raise the issue around police brutality is they're not snipers. They're not people armed with assault rifles. They're not people who have the intentionality of harming police officers. That is not the modus operandi of the typical protesters that we've seen of the last couple of years. So I think we have to be cautious, reserve our judgment and we have to wait to see the facts. Because the police are going to get to the bottom of who these people are. Until we know that, we can't associate them with these peaceful protesters.

[02:15:24] SESAY: Areva, there is a lot that's not thrown known, but one thing that has been said is these kinds of situations deepens a sense of fear, of fear on both sides, among the police officers and, of course, we know in the black community there has been talking about their sense of feeling under attack, at least that's the feeling among some. Talk to us about that and the implication of what is playing out in Dallas. MARTIN: No doubt about it. Everyone is at a heightened sense of

fear. When you wake up on Tuesday and you hear about the Alton Sterling case, you then go into Wednesday and it's Philando Castillo. 11 officers shot, four who are dead. Of course, everyone is fearful. This is a culture of fear that we live in. We have to talk to our children. Not just about with the horrific video that we saw with Alton Sterling, now we have video of a police officer being gunned down by a criminal. So our kids are going to have to live with this terror. We have to live with it.

And I think the president, you know, he talked about how we have to come together, we have to have empathy and we have to do better as a country. And I think his words, they mean so much more, even now, because with when he was talking earlier this evening, he was talking about the two police shootings. He wasn't talking about what we've watched unfold in Dallas. So these words have even more meaning tonight as we watch. And we play for the families of the police officers who have been tragically gunned down.

VAUSE: Everybody please stand by because we have a lot more obviously on our coverage of the situation in Dallas.

But in the meantime, we will take a short break. We will come back in a moment with more on the officers who were shot at this peaceful protest. They were out there protesting police brutality. You are watching CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(SPORTS REPORT)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[02:21:19] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

MIKE RAWLINGS, (D), DALLAS MAYOR: It is a heartbreaking morning to lose these four officers that proudly serve our citizens. To say that our police officers put their life on the line every day is no hyperbole, ladies and gentlemen. It's a reality.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Welcome back, everybody. It's just gone 1:21 in Dallas. More on our breaking news. Four police officers have been shot and killed in Dallas during a protest. The mayor says it is still an active crime scene.

SESAY: Snipers fired on police during the protests Thursday night. Right now, officers are negotiating with a suspect holed in a garage. There was a gun fight with a suspect who says there are bombs planted all over downtown Dallas. Police have three people in custody.

VAUSE: Marchers were demonstrating after police officers killed two African-American men. There is no indication these shooters were connected to those protests, which were peaceful until the shooting started.

Ismael Dejesus was across the street and he recorded part of the shooting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(GUNFIRE)

ISMAEL DEJESUS, WITNESS: Right there, man.

(GUNFIRE)

DEJESUS: Bro, my god. My god, what is going on? (EXPLETIVE DELETED) guys.

(GUNFIRE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SESAY: Well, Ismael Dejesus, who shot that chilling video, told Don Lemon more about what he saw.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DEJESUS: Came out to the balcony. I did hear some popping sounds. I thought it was fireworks at first. Came out, a man had a rifle, A.R.- 15 clear as day. Pretty big magazine. And you can see towards the end of the video here, he goes ahead and drops a few mags.

(CROSSTALK)

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: This is him behind the railing. This is him behind the railing next to the column, correct?

DEJESUS: Yes. This is him right here to the right of that white pillar. You know was shooting to the left, goes ahead and turns around, shoots to the right, shoots on the other side of the pillar. He was shooting at something and aiming at somebody. Then he, you know, turned around, checked his back, make sure there was no one coming. But the officer did come across the right side of the screen to that pillar to the right and tried to take him one-on-one in a fire fight and it didn't -- it didn't end very well. It was very tragic.

LEMON: That's the officer getting shot right there?

DEJESUS: No. I didn't get video of the officer getting shot. That is the officer down right there. It was -- it looked like an execution, honestly. He stood over him after he was already down, shot him maybe three or four more times in the back. So at that point, if I know if he was confirmed dead or anything, obviously, but he was down for about five more minutes before anybody could come and get to him.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[02:25:00] VAUSE: Back with us again here the in Los Angeles, CNN's law enforcement contributor, Steve Moore; and former FBI counterterrorism agent, Tim Clemente.

Tim, first to you.

Looking at the video of the shooter there, the witness said it look like he was wearing body armor. He had a lot of ammunition, an A.R.- 15. Obviously, knew how to use it. This guy had some skills. He wasn't an amateur.

CLEMENTE: It doesn't mean a lot of skills. Unfortunately, he's shooting at that officer from basically point-blank range. He shot it from 15 or 20 feet away where the column was and then went up and shot him in the back, according to this witness. There's not a high level of skill necessary for that. Obviously, the officer is outgunned tremendously. The length of the barrel makes the gun much more accurate than a police officer's handgun. Even with greater training and greater skill the officer may have had, he's mismatched this battle with this.

You'll note the officer ran towards this man, even though he was outgunned, and this is the epitome of what law enforcement does each and every day. We can disparage them and say there may be some bad apples in that group, and I would agree with that, but we cannot paint with a broad brush. Law enforcement, as a rule, puts their lives on the line for the average person every single day.

SESAY: And, Steve, I see you nodding your head there. I've got to ask you, seeing that and knowing that officers were executed in Dallas, for all intents and purposes, your feelings, what's going through your mind, and the conversation among law enforcement tonight.

MOORE: My feelings besides revulsion and just grief is that we need to keep a calm head here. Law enforcement has to show that we are above vigilantism. We cannot sink to that level. And we need to prove that most of -- the vast majority of law enforcement are brave, good people. And we need to prove through this the integrity of law enforcement.

VAUSE: And I just want to pick up on that earlier point about the planning that went into this. The police chief said there were snipers on rooftops. They triangulated to try and shoot as many police as possible. It does look like there was at least some preparation that went into this.

CLEMENTE: Clearly, there was some preparation. I'm not saying -- what I mean is it didn't mean that they were military snipers with extensive training. --

(CROSSTALK)

CLEMENTE: It's not necessary. It's possible. It's not necessary to do what they did. They had the advantage -- what height gives you is an advantage where it's very hard for somebody to hide behind something, hide behind a police car, for instance, which is what most officers would do if they're in their patrol cars and next to them. The first thing you want to use is use that engine block as protection. But if the advantage point is from above, it's hard to get protect from a low object.

Now, one officer was behind a column trying to engage that gunman who was on the ground and the gunman still had the tactical advantage because of the long gun, the greater capacity of his weapon than a police officer's weapon. So what I would say as far as the planning is it couldn't have gone very far in advance. They couldn't have been planning this for months because this is at a protest.

(CROSSTALK)

CLEMENTE: The protest was spur of the moment, a day or so in advance at most.

But every attack is general preceded by some form of pre-attack surveillance. So I think what they probably saw was the law enforcement presence here tonight to protect this protest, the peaceful protesters that are out there marching in Dallas. They have every right to do that. And they have every right to be protected by the Dallas police, and they were. These individuals may have seen that and responded to positions they thought would be advantageous and took advantage of the situation by trying to kill these officers.

SESAY: And, Steve, we have to get to break but, briefly, do you agree with that assessment?

MOORE: Generally, I agree. My thought on this is this was an attack planned long before, waiting for an opportunity to go. I think there was so much, logistically, ammunition-wise, that they may not have planned the location or their vantage points, but they had prepared for an attack before last night's shooting, is my guess.

VAUSE: Lots of ammunition, possibly in camouflage, that does make sense. Of course, we'll hopefully find out more in the days to come.

Steve, you're going to stick with us. We appreciate that.

We will take a short break but please stay with us on CNN. We are following this breaking news out of Dallas, Texas, a city now under siege as snipers gun down four police officers. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[02:32:38] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

SESAY: Hello, everybody. Thank you for staying with us.

We want to update you on the breaking news. Police says four officers were killed by snipers in downtown Dallas Thursday as crowds protested alleged police brutality in the U.S.

Here is a part of that chilling exchange caught on video by a witness.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(SIREN)

(GUNFIRE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my god. There's people laying on the ground. I hope they're just hiding.

(GUNFIRE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

(GUNFIRE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somebody is really armed to the teeth. This is not --

(GUNFIRE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- this is a person with --

(GUNFIRE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a person with--

(GUNFIRE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A person with a big --

(GUNFIRE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my god. It can't be --

(GUNFIRE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my god. Oh, my god.

(GUNFIRE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Officials say downtown Dallas is still an active crime scene. A total of 11 officers were shot. The Dallas police chief says it's not clear how many snipers were involved in this attack, but one of them is cornered now if in a parking garage. Police say he says there are bombs planted throughout the city.

A short ago, Chief David Brown told reporters how impressed he is with the work his officers are doing under very dangerous conditions.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID BROWN, CHIEF, DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT: I've never been more proud of a police officer and being a part of this great, noble profession, seeing the courage, the professionalism, and just the grit to stay on scene in an area looking for suspects, knowing that we are vulnerable. We don't know where they are and our downtown is very large with a lot of high buildings. And some of the stories I've heard from officers talking about what happened, running toward gunfire to help the injured officers to get them transported to hospital by patrol car, not having the time to wait for an ambulance, and just so many stories of great courage.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SESAY: Well, for more on the situation there in Dallas, we're joined on the phone by "Dallas Morning News" reporter, Sarah Mervosh.

Sarah, thank you for being with us.

Where are you right now? What can you tell us about what's happening?

[02:35:16] SARAH MERVOSH, REPORTER, DALLAS MORNING NEWS (voice-over): I'm in downtown Dallas about two blocks from El Centro College. I'm near one of the parking garages. There was just an explosion in the city, according to my colleagues. I did not personally witness or hear it. But my colleague reports that Dallas police told reporters to move, and there was a loud boom and what sounded like shattering glass. I don't know if this was one of the bomb devices that the suspect threatened about or if this was the P.D. trying to disarm something or make sure there was something going on.

VAUSE: So what do we know about the other three suspects who police are currently talking to?

MERVOSH: You know, I'm on the ground. I am not there. I cannot speak to that. I can speak to what I'm hearing here on the ground.

SESAY: So what are you seeing from your vantage point?

MERVOSH: As of a few minutes ago, I saw at least two cops in one of the parking garages downtown, between the Bank of America tower and the hotel, which is two major landmarks in Dallas. A lot of the people on the streets were really intense, really emotion. Protesters have cleared out. People are sitting on the curb.

I just spoke with a father and his 7-year-old son. They were at the march and are basically stranded here. And a lot of the police officers are hanging around, guarding this perimeter around this large crime scene. And one of the police officers just gave this 7-year-old boy a junior officer sticker. And this is a young black boy and the officer was white.

VAUSE: Have you had a chance to talk to the people downtown? It's been a couple hours now. There must be shock and disbelief at the moment.

MERVOSH: I'm sorry. I couldn't catch the last part.

VAUSE: There just must be shock and disbelieve. Have you had a chance to talk to anybody in the downtown area?

MERVOSH: Yeah. He talked to several people who were at the marches. One was actually one who took a Facebook video of what happened and captured part of the shooting on his video. He couldn't even remember his area code to his phone number he was in such shock. And I've talked to two parents/child combinations that were here downtown. And they wanted their kids to be there to party the Black Lives Matter movement, but they never imagined had it would turn into this. A lot of people are just happy to be safe. Now it's getting late. It's after 1:00 a.m. here and people are still stranded here. They can't get home because their cars are in blocked up areas.

SESAY: Sarah, we appreciate you joining us from the scene in downtown Dallas. We'll continue to check in with you. Thanks for the update.

MERVOSH: Thank you.

VAUSE: It was a peaceful protest. A lot of parents took their kids there and everything changed when the shots began.

And we will have the latest information from the deadly shooting there in Dallas in just a moment.

But for now, a short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[02:41:43] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

SESAY: Welcome back, everyone. We want to welcome our viewers in the United States and around the world and update you on the breaking news from Dallas, Texas. Under siege after a horrific attack. Police moved in this force after four officers were shot dead and seven were wounded. At least two snipers fired on them ambush-style during peaceful protests.

This was the scene when shots were first heard.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(SIRENS)

(SHOUTING)

(SIRENS)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: There was sheer chaos on the ground. Hundreds were protesting the deaths of two African-American men at the hands of two police officers. Dallas police say this is still an active shooting situation. They have been negotiating with a suspect who is cornered in a garage. Short time ago, reporters were moved away from that scene by police. There was the sound of a loud boom, also, the sound of shattering glass. That suspect had been exchanging gunfire with police and claimed explosive devices had been planted in the downtown area.

SESAY: All in all, 11 officers were shot and one civilian was wounded. Police say they have three people in custody at the moment.

VAUSE: We have heard from people who say they witnessed police being shot.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED WITNESS: Right here around 30 minutes ago. An officer was shot dead with an automatic A.R.-15. An officer was right here behind this column and then a police officer tried to sneak up on the other civilian or whatever you want to call him. He missed the dude. The dude snuck around him and shot him with the A.R. He emptied the whole clip in the police officer's chest. We live out here in Dallas. Live.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: You saw what happened?

UNIDENTIFIED WITNESS: I saw this with my eyes.

UNIDENTIFIED WITNESS: Turned around trying to shoot at him web got him, boom, fell. Boom, boom, boom, shot him, get going. She fell, she got up and kept running.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Back with us now, civil rights attorney, Areva Martin; and CNN law enforcement contributor, Steve Moore.

Steve, to you.

Police are staying it's still a massive crime scene. Trying to clear it for possible explosive devices and any evidence they can gather. How does that process now proceed?

MOORE: I don't even know how you start with a crime scene that charge. You'll have to start patrolling, bring out dogs and other agencies because, frankly, you can't do it with one police department. You also would have to realize shifts are coming on in about eight hours to relief these people. So it's going to be very tough. The longer the siege goes in the parking structure, the worse it's going to be for manpower. If that detonation or loud explosion they heard was in the vicinity of that, that could have been -- besides a disruption of an IED, it could have been a diversion device before an assault on that suspect.

[02:45:06] SESAY: Areva, to you.

As a civil rights attorney -- you know, the words fail us, all of us, really, watching this play out in Dallas. But what does it says about where America is today that we are in a situation where officers were ambushed, 11 shot, four dead.

MARTIN: It's troubling. Needless to say, I've watched the police shootings unfold over the last 48 hours. Now to be watching four police officers killed in the line of duty, it's just numbing. The way that we want to raise awareness about police brutality is not by attacking police officers. That's not what civil rights is about. We're not fighting a street fight. The police officers are not all bad. That's never been the point of any of the protests. We recognize there are great police officers doing great work and we saw those -- we saw police officers tonight. We heard the police chief talk about the courage and the brave men and women who are out there to protect the protesters. So I don't know anyone to get the impression that when we are protesting about police brutality we are trying to send a message to harm or to injure or to kill police officers. That is not the message. I mourn for those officers. I grieve for those officers and their families in the same way that I mourn for the two African-American men shot by police earlier this week.

VAUSE: There are more protests planned on Friday and over the weekend around the country. Security obviously will be increased. Are they targets?

MOORE: Are the police targets?

VAUSE: Or are those protests, as well?

MOORE: It's possible. You don't know -- again, with any kind of situation, these people who perpetrated this are not obviously mainstream civil rights people. They're head cases on the street.

(CROSSTALK)

VAUSE: If this is viewed as an attack on the police by Black Lives Matters, are those protesters who are taken to the streets elsewhere, are they now possible targets of retaliatory --

(CROSSTALK)

MARTIN: Yes, and that's -- Oh, you mean from the police?

VAUSE: Not from the police, but from those who obviously believe that, you know, someone has shot the police and they believe they now need to --

(CROSSTALK)

MARTIN: Yes. Now I understand the question. Yes, that is a possibility. You have extremists on both sides of this. There could be a tit-for-tat here. You have to balance this because you don't want to show up now with what looks like Special Forces coming in. But you're not going to sit here with standard uniforms out there because you don't know what to expect. And at the same time that we are trying to bridge gaps between the African-American community and the police, who seem sometimes militaristic to them, you're having to show up in armored cars. So it is counterproductive for so many reasons. And that's even glossing over the fact that we lost four good people tonight.

SESAY: And, Areva, what does this mean for these protests?

MARTIN: I think there will be some people who, no matter what the facts are, when the police chief comes out and gives the next report about what he knows about these shooters, some people are going to forever attach any kind of peaceful protests with the shooting of the officers tonight. But I would hope that people will accept whatever the evidence is, whatever the facts are. And if these people are somehow affiliated with whatever group, be it a fringe group, a more mainstream civil rights group, they need to be prosecuted to the fullest extent. We know there are peaceful protesters out there and we know there are people who are out to harm the police. We have to separate those two groups. We shouldn't conflate them. We have to be very careful about doing that.

SESAY: Yeah.

(CROSSTALK)

VAUSE: -- chain of events. We just don't know where we're heading, yeah.

SESAY: Areva, Steve --

VAUSE: Areva, Steve, thank you.

SESAY: -- thank you.

VAUSE: A short break. We'll continue to follow the breaking news out of Dallas. Four police officers have been killed by snipers as crowds protested alleged police brutality. More in a moment.

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(WEATHER REPORT)

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[02:33:13] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

SESAY: Hello, everyone. Updating you on our breaking news now. An active crime scene in Dallas, Texas, where officers are in negotiations with a suspect who has been shooting at police and says bombs have been planted in the city. The man was cornered after other attackers, snipers, shot 11 officers, killing four of them during a protest. Authorities now have three suspects in custody. The ambush happened as protesters were marching peacefully over the police shootings of two African-American men elsewhere in the U.S. over the past few days.

U.S. President Barack Obama talked about the shootings on Thursday saying it's not just a black issue.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I just ask folks to step back and think what if this happened to somebody in your family? How would you feel? To be concerned about these issues is not political correctness. It's just being American.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: President Obama obviously speaking before the shooting in Dallas. He is currently in Warsaw at a NATO summit. We have yet to hear from the U.S. president on the shooting in Dallas.

We are, though, hearing from eye witnesses and we're seeing dramatic video of the shootings.

SESAY: Here is some of that footage now and those firsthand accounts.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(GUNFIRE)

(SIRENS)

[02:55:13] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was Black, white Latinos, everybody. There was a mixed community here protesting and this just came out of nowhere.

(GUNFIRE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somebody is really armed to the teeth. This is not -- this is not one person.

(GUNFIRE)

(SIRENS)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This just came out of nowhere. As a matter of fact, we were towards the end of the protest --

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- when the shots started firing off.

UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: Get back. Get back. Let's go. Get back. Get back.

UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: Let's go, let's go, let's go, gets go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All of a sudden, saw and heard six to eight shots. It looks like two officers went down. I didn't have time to get a good look. I ran back and I was screaming run, run, run, active shooter, active shooter.

(GUNFIRE)

(SIRENS)

MIKE RAWLINGS, (D), DALLAS MAYOR: Let's all come together and support our police officers. Please, let's come together right now as a city.

(SIRENS)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SESAY: Nothing short of a nightmare playing out in Dallas right now.

Thank you for watching CNN NEWSROOM, live from Los Angeles. I'm Isha Sesay.

VAUSE: And I'm John Vause.

Natalie Allen and George Howell will continue our breaking news coverage after this.

You're watching CNN.

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