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Immigration Verdict at Supreme Court; Interview With Illinois Congresswoman Robin Kelly; Not Guilty Verdict in Freddie Gray Case. Aired 3-3:30p ET
Aired June 23, 2016 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: You were a nurse in that detention center...
POLLY SHEPPARD, SURVIVOR: Yes.
BALDWIN: ... where he is being held.
BALDWIN: So, had you not retired, you could be tending to this man.
SHEPPARD: And I would.
BALDWIN: You would?
SHEPPARD: He would get the best care I could give him.
BALDWIN: How would you find the grace in your heart to do that?
SHEPPARD: You can't fight evil with evil. Love overcomes everything.
BALDWIN: What's your message to folks that are struggling with this? The rhetoric is so full of hate right now.
SHEPPARD: If Congress didn't do anything when they killed those children at Sandy Hook, they are not going to do anything now. And what does anybody need with a gun that shoots 10 to 18 rounds at one time? We need gun control. Too many mass killings back to back. We can do better. This is America.
BALDWIN: At what point did you feel it?
GREG MULLEN, CHARLESTON, SOUTH CAROLINA, POLICE CHIEF: I am the community caretaker. That's my role. I accept that. I was just hoping that I wouldn't do anything that would make it worse. From the very beginning, it was very personal. And I still feel it every day.
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
BALDWIN: Speaking of Congress, more on the breaking news in America's gun debate here in Washington in just a moment, but, first, top of the hour. Thank you for being with me. I'm Brooke Baldwin.
Also breaking right now, a crushing blow to President Obama. The U.S. Supreme Court has blocked the White House's controversial immigration plan. Justices in a 4-4 split deadlock, unable to rule on the legality of executive actions to shield as many as four million immigrants from possible deportation.
This is a massive loss for the president of the United States, who hoped to add this ambitious plan to his presidential legacy. And it's a huge win for 26 states, most of whom, with those Republican governors, attorneys generals who challenged this plan, they claim that the president abused his executive power. And the president reacted this way.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're going to have to make a decision about whether we are a people who tolerate an hypocrisy of the system, where the workers who pick our fruit or make our beds never have the chance to get right with the law, or whether we are going to give them a chance, just like our forbearers had a chance, to take responsibility and give their kids a better future.
We are going to have to decide whether we are a people who accept the cruelty of ripping children from their parents' arms or whether we actually value families.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Let's go to the steps in front of the Supreme Court, Ariane de Vogue standing live.
I mean, when this decision came down -- show me that single piece of paper, which is so rare for you to get covering the Supreme Court.
ARIANE DE VOGUE, CNN SUPREME COURT REPORTER: Well, here it is.
DE VOGUE: When the court goes 4-4, it deadlocks. It blocks the lower court opinion here. And it sets no precedent whatsoever.
So, these programs are blocked from going into effect. And the lower court opinion is upheld. It is as if the Supreme Court never took up the case. And that's why the justices don't like to go 4-4. It is a waste of time. It is a waste of lawyers who come up here and argue.
But you know what? This shows one other thing that is interesting. And that's the power of the district court judge in Texas, the first one who was able to block these programs nationwide. He was upheld by a lower court -- by the appeals court. But that's a lot of power for that judge.
The losers here could certainly try to come back to the Supreme Court. But that hardly ever works. What this really does is tee up the election debate. BALDWIN: Speaking of the election, thank you for teeing me up for my
next guest, Ariane de Vogue. Thank you.
Dana Bash, let's go there, CNN political correspondent.
We knew immigration was a major, major issue, especially in this election cycle. But, my goodness, now, with this 4-4 split, it underscores the significance of voting, depending on which way the presidency goes, as far as the justice who is nominated. And also how does this effect both the Dems and the Republicans in terms of rallying the troops?
DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Look, you just hit it perfectly, Brooke, on the two big issues politically here.
Number one, we know very well that Donald Trump effectively used the anti-illegal immigration fervor in the Republican base to help him effectively win the nomination. He really -- at this point, if you go to a rally or you watch a rally, he says -- it is interactive.
He says, we are going to build a wall. Who is going to build it? Mexico. Who is going to pay for it? They are.
BASH: So, that is -- exactly. That is something that's been going on for some time.
On the Democratic side, however, there is no question that this is going to actually energize some of their base in a way that maybe it hasn't been as kind of front and center in their minds potentially as it has been, or at least maybe in the public eye, I should say, as it has been on the Republican side, because now it is out there that -- very clear that there is no way that this current president, President Obama's executive plan is going to fly.
It is just -- it's not possible. And so it is even more imperative for those that want to try to make legal at least even the five million or so, the children who came here through no fault of their own and others, to allow them to stay legally.
It is not going to happen during this presidency. So, the next president is going to be even more critical, whomever that is, not to mention the Congress.
But last thing, the other thing, of course, the Supreme Court, what Ariane just said. It is 4-4. There isn't a ninth justice. The next president, unless Congress, something happens dramatic, which I don't see it happening, gives a vote to the president's nominee, it is going to be the next president.
And it's going to be absolutely crucial on immigration, of course, a whole host of issues. This is a stark reminder of that.
BALDWIN: Get out and vote. Get out and vote. Get out and vote.
Dana Bash, thank you so for perfectly outlining it all.
And she hit the point this is personal for so many people, including my next guest. The face of this immigration decision takes many forms. One woman's story resonated when she posted this emotional video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERIKA ANDIOLA, MOTHER AND BROTHER ARRESTED IN IMMIGRATION RAID: If I'm talking to you right now, it is because my mother and brother were just taken by immigration.
They just came to my house. They knocked on my door. My brother was outside with the neighbor. And they just came to ask for my mom. They said they were not going to do anything to her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: That woman joins me now. She is Erika Andiola.
Erika, you are now the national press secretary for Latino outreach for the Bernie Sanders campaign.
Thank you so much for spending some time with me today.
As this is so personal for you, before we get to that and your tears and what happened with your mom and your brother, first, just if I can, your reaction to the Supreme Court 4-4 split?
ANDIOLA: Well, thank you for having me.
And it's definitely something that it is not what we wanted. It is something that definitely is hurting something -- millions of families across the country who were waiting for a positive decision. But I think for us, it's once again taking this challenge and continuing to move forward the best way that we can.
And I think for us, right now, it is important to make sure that we are protecting the families who are being left basically in limbo without DAPA, without DACA extended, and making sure that we are now supporting them at this point.
And we still have a long way to go. We are going to have to work very hard in this election to make sure that we have the best person and, in 2017, to continue the work on immigration, but also to make sure that we are not continuing the deportation machine that the president has already started in this term.
It is sad. It's definitely not what we wanted. But we have to continue to fight. It is for our families and for people who are depending on this type of decision.
BALDWIN: Let's talk about your family. I know, Erika, that you are a dreamer. Came you tell me how you came to this country? Did you come in with your mom and brother?
My mother was running away from domestic violence in Mexico. And we came in 1998, straight to Arizona, which, as you know, also has been going through a lot of difficulties with immigration laws there.
And we came basically to get a better future. My mom has five children. There's five of us. And the five of us have been working really hard here in the United States to also continue to help now our own families. My brothers and sisters have U.S. citizen children, a mixed status family, just like the millions that are in this country with citizen children, with residents and even some DACA recipients.
And so we have a lot to fight for. And the reality is that we are going to continue to hear Donald Trump, we are going to continue to hear people on the other side calling us names, making this narrative for us. But the reality is, we have our own stories and we're going to continue to tell them, because this is going to change really the reality of our lives moving forward, right?
And that's how dreamers were able to shape this narrative of who we are, and we're going to continue to do that.
BALDWIN: Yes. Listen, I have interviewed a number of dreamers and heard their stories. And it is emotional. And you want to keep fighting.
But I have also talked to a lot of people in this country who say, yes, this is the land of opportunity and, yes, you can be here, but you have to get in line and you have to go through the proper channels to be here legally. Tell me, what is unfair about that?
ANDIOLA: Unfortunately, there is no line. And that is the problem, that there is no line because it has been gridlocked in Congress, because both parties have continued to fight with each other on the issue and continued to use it as a wedge issue to continue to win elections from one side and the other.
At this point, what we need to make sure of that we have to stop that. We need to make sure that we focus on actually taking care of the families that are undocumented that are contributing so many millions of dollars to our economy, and that, at the end of the day, we are a mixed status community, where children cannot continue to have their parents being deported, because they are from here.
They are from the United States. And we can't just see them going back to Mexico, when it is not even their country. And so for me, as an undocumented person, definitely, I'm here to be able to contribute right now. I work for a presidential campaign. I was given the opportunity to work. And I was able to take it.
And Bernie Sanders offered me this opportunity. And I am glad. And there are so many more dreamers that have been able to do that and now contributing back just with the opportunity of having DACA. And so it's something that we need to work for. And today is definitely a tough day for us.
BALDWIN: Yes. I know it is tough. I know it is tough, because there a lot of kids who are brought in this country, that they don't know what is happening. But it's a tough one.
Erika Andiola, thank you so much for your story, your response to what has happened with the Supreme Court. We're going to hear a whole heck of a lot more about immigration, I think, in the coming months until November.
Thank you very much. Best of luck to you.
ANDIOLA: Thank you for having me.
BALDWIN: Also, breaking today, on Capitol Hill, the House Democrats ending their sit-in over guns after a heated clash. Moments ago, also, a bipartisan bill on guns on the Senate side just found its fate as well. We have that for you.
Also today in Baltimore, the officer facing the most serious charges in the Freddie Gray death found not guilty. We have the reasons. We have the reactions ahead for you.
And frightening moments inside of a movie theater today. What happened after a mass gunman stormed in and took hostages? I'm Brooke Baldwin. This is CNN's special live coverage.
BALDWIN: Minutes ago, we heard from the leader the House Democrats, Nancy Pelosi. She spoke about ending a historic protest, a sit-in that lasted for more than 24 hours inside the halls of Congress.
Democrats staged a sit-in, decrying the lack of action from lawmakers on gun control, just days after the Orlando massacre, the deadliest mass shooting in U.S. history. Democrats failed to get what they wanted, an up-down vote on guns here. But Leader Pelosi says this fight is far from over.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SARAH PALIN (R), FORMER ALASKA GOVERNOR: We can not stop until we get a bill, until the law gets passed. This isn't about politics. It is not about elections. It is not about campaigns. It is about the safety of the American people. We want this off the table. We want an issue and values that the -- and hope that the Republicans could agree to that.
(END VIDEO CLIP) BALDWIN: The speaker of the House, Paul Ryan, called it a publicity stunt. Speaker Ryan ended the floor session, shut down the House cameras, turned off the microphones. But Democrats took to social media to keep those images up and running.
Speaker Ryan insisted today the public should not be swayed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. PAUL RYAN (R-WI), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: They are not trying to actually get this done through regular order. No, instead, they are staging protests. They're trying to get on TV. They are sending out fund-raising solicitations like this one.
House Democrats on the House floor, your contribution will go to the DCCC, $15.
If this is not a political stunt, then why are they trying to raise money off of this, off of a tragedy?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Let's go to Capitol Hill.
CNN senior political reporter Manu Raju is standing by. We have that. That was on the House side.
There was also some action on the Senate side just a little while ago regarding Senator Susan Collins' bipartisan measure, which failed. What happened?
MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it was a very significant vote in the Senate. This was probably the closest effort at a bipartisan compromise that we have seen so far dealing with issues of trying to prevent suspected terrorists on that no-fly list, which is part of a smaller -- part of a larger subset of people on that terrorist watch list.
But Collins tried to hatch a compromise, prevent people on that no-fly from getting a gun if they are denied, have an appeals process. But it came under opposition particularly from the right, where people were concerned, the NRA raising constitutional concerns over this measure.
And we saw today is that falls -- fell short of the 60 votes that it would eventually need to pass the Senate. It had actually 52 votes. This was essentially a test vote today, Brooke. It was supposed to demonstrate whether or not there was that 60-vote supermajority, which is really the key number to get in the Senate to advance.
It fell eight votes short of that. So, what does that mean? That means that that Collins proposal is stalled, it's not going to pass the Senate this year, and probably the one chance at a bipartisan compromise just is not going to happen, which is one reason why Democrats probably had to pull the plug on the House floor today, saying that, look, we're going to take this to the voters, because we're not going to get a whole lot happening, happening here on Capitol Hill.
BALDWIN: We will talk to a House Dem here momentarily.
But for now, thank you, Manu Raju, for the report there on the failure, the lack of supermajority votes on the Senate side. Thank you.
Let's go to Capitol Hill. Joining now, Congresswoman Robin Kelly, a Democrat from Illinois.
REP. ROBIN KELLY (D), ILLINOIS: Thank you so much for having me.
BALDWIN: All right, so the sit-in is over, 26-some hours. Can you just talk to me about who made the call to call it quits?
KELLY: Well, I don't think it was exactly to call it quits. We just decided that we feel like we won, that we got our point across.
BALDWIN: Was it unanimous?
KELLY: Oh, yes.
There were probably people that would stay on and on and on. But we decided that it was time now to take it back to our districts and work in our districts around this issue. But when we come back on July 5, we will keep working.
BALDWIN: How was it a win since you all didn't get the vote you wanted?
KELLY: That's true that they didn't call the vote. I don't know that we really expected them to call the vote yesterday or this morning.
But we got the attention of the public. And we felt like it is a win because we got the opportunity to speak for what the majority of the American people want.
BALDWIN: Speaker Ryan said it was a publicity stunt.
And then I don't know if you have seen this. Let me read this tweet from Republican Congressman Steve King from Iowa. He tweeted: "I have had it with the gun-grabbing Democrats and their sit-in anti-Second Amendment jihad. I'm going to go home and buy a new gun."
Congresswoman Kelly, your response?
KELLY: Well, it is almost laughable. And for Speaker Ryan to say it was a publicity stunt, that's
ridiculous and it's quite insulting, actually. And Steve King, it is hard to pay attention to what he says.
There were NRA members on the floor speaking with us. There are NRA Democrats. There are Democrats that own guns that believe in this too. They try to make it a Second Amendment argument. But no one is trying to take your gun away if you have it legally and you are not going to harm anybody else or yourself, for that matter.
BALDWIN: Let me just move off of guns briefly, since I have you as a member of Congress. I know you have seen the 4-4 split, Supreme Court, huge news this morning, big blow to President Obama's legacy.
Donald Trump said that filling with the Supreme Court is the biggest issue of this election. Do you agree?
KELLY: Well, it is a very, very important issue, because whoever becomes president, even though they may only serve eight years, but their pick will go on and the votes will go on for generations.
So, yes, it is extremely important.
BALDWIN: Congresswoman Robin Kelly from Illinois, thank you so much for your time today.
KELLY: Thank you.
BALDWIN: I appreciate it. We will follow up with you all once you have gone home and come back on this very important issue.
KELLY: Thank you.
BALDWIN: Coming up next -- thank you -- not guilty, a second police officer charged in the death of Freddie Gray acquitted on all counts.
We will take you live to the city of Baltimore. We will get reaction and find out what this means for the four officers still facing trial.
BALDWIN: Not guilty on all charges, that was the decision coming in today for Baltimore police officer Caesar Goodson.
He is the van driver who is accused of taking Freddie Gray on that so- called rough ride, accusations of jostling the van as he was in the back, not buckled in after the 25-year-old was arrested last year. Officer Goodson faced seven charges, including second-degree murder.
This is the most serious charge of any of the six officers charged. Prosecutors argued that he drove recklessly with the intent to harm Freddie Gray. But the judge said that their evidence that they presented didn't prove that.
Gray's death thrust the city of Baltimore into the national debate on police brutality and ignited days and days of protests.
CNN's Miguel Marquez was inside the courtroom when that verdict was read. Also here, constitutional law professor Gloria Browne-Marshall.
So, welcome to both of you.
And, Miguel Marquez, first, just take me inside that courtroom and responses, reactions on all kinds of levels in there. Paint the picture for me.
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, very, very stressful in that courtroom, the guards coming out first off and saying, no moaning, no groaning when that -- when the judge makes his decision. Let's just get through this day.
Literally, the guards realizing just how momentous this day was. Certainly, it felt like this was perhaps the end of the road. If the prosecutors could not get a conviction on this case, I think people felt in that courtroom it was going to be very difficult to do it for any others.
When Marilyn Mosby walked in just before the judge started to read his reaction, the courtroom sort of hushed. As that decision was being read, the judge very methodical. It took him about a half-hour to get through it, reading through the case law, reading through the evidence or the lack of evidence, he said, the prosecution didn't come up with on every single count.
When he said, not guilty throughout it, Caesar Goodson just sat there stone-cold silent staring at the judge, his family crying as each not guilty was read.
At the very last one, Edward Nero, another police officer who was earlier acquitted, stood up and just said yes. On the other side of the room, it was just -- it was shock. I think a lot people expected that this may happen, but to hear it from the judge's mouth was something for them to hear.
No family members from Freddie Gray's family was there, many saying at least, at least light is being shined now on the police department here and there are changes being made -- Brooke.
BALDWIN: Gloria, you were surprised.
GLORIA BROWNE-MARSHALL, JOHN JAY COLLEGE OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE: I was surprised, but I have been, you know, shocked and surprised and disheartened so many times with these police cases that, at this point, what does it take?
At the end of the day, Freddie Gray is dead, and it wasn't a suicide. So, now, who is responsible for his death?