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What Did Orlando Shooter`s Wife Know?; Orlando Shooter Cased Disney and Gay Club Days Before; Survivor Joshua McGill Risked Life to Save Otheres. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired June 14, 2016 - 20:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Things I hear when I close my eyes, like guns.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The gunshots didn`t stop.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that laugh, like a villain in a movie, just pure evil.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was just bodies everywhere.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People are bleeding. People are just screaming for help.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This person had to be heartless -- heartless, ruthless.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Breaking now, terror attack on U.S. soil, over 100 dead and injured in the worst mass shooting in U.S. history as the shooter pledging allegiance to
evil ISIS. Tonight, questions swirling. What, if anything, did his wife know?
This as we go straight out to Angel Colon, who survived this horrific shooting. Angel, thank you so much for being with us.
ANGEL COLON, SURVIVOR (via telephone): No problem, Nancy. Thank you so much for this opportunity.
GRACE: And you are actually joining us tonight from the hospital, is that correct?
COLON: Yes. I`m still here. I currently -- I can`t walk yet. I`m moving my legs so far, so I`m on the way to recovery. But I`ll be here for
probably another few days.
GRACE: I know it`s all so hard for you to take in right now, but could you tell our viewers what you recall from the shooting?
COLON: Yes, definitely. I actually remember everything just because once that first shot happened, my head cleared up, and I remembered everything.
It all started shortly after 2:00 AM. The night was ending. We had a great night. We were saying bye to each other, already having a last
chitchat. And out of nowhere, we hear the first gunshots.
We all get scared. We look at each other, and then out of nowhere, it just starts going back and back. I actually -- I was the one closest to the
gunman, so I made everyone turn around. We all started running.
And unfortunately, I was one of the first ones shot. I got -- I was shot three times in the leg. So as soon as that happened, we all fell down to
the floor. My friends were able to stand up and keep running. I almost stood up again, but I was trampled.
GRACE: Wait, wait. So people started running over you to get out?
COLON: Yes, yes. Everyone just started running on top of me. My left leg was good until then. I went to stand up, and someone just got on my femur
bone in my left hip, and I heard it snap right there. And so at this point I have three shots on my right leg. I have broken bones, shattered bones
actually on my left leg. I had the shots on my right leg.
So by this time, I can`t move at all. I was stuck in the middle. People now are around me, and I just hear -- I just hear the gunshots -- pow, pow,
pow, pow, pow.
GRACE: Everyone, with me is Angel Colon, who actually survived the nightclub shooting. He was not only shot three times but was trampled,
hearing bones snap as people trampled over him in a stampede to try and escape death. He`s actually joining us from his hospital bed.
Angel, again, thank you for being with us. Is it true, from what you recall, that the shooter continued to shoot people even after they were
COLON: Yes. After I was trampled and I was just laying down there, he had gone to another room in the club. I heard him shooting a gun. And then
the shots kept getting closer, and I noticed he was back in the room. I didn`t see his face because I was facing down.
GRACE: Wait. I don`t understand that. Angel Colon, you`re laying there. You`re shot three times. You`ve heard a bone snap. And you hear the
bullets, the shooting getting closer and closer to you. What was running through your mind? You can`t get out. You`re laying face down. What did
COLON: All I was thinking, I`m, like, I`m next, I`m dead. I`m, like, I can`t go anywhere. He`s getting closer. I hear the shots getting closer
And I was actually holding onto the girl next to me. We didn`t know each other at all, but we just had each other. And I`m holding her -- you can`t
really notice I`m alive because I`m just laying down there with her. And I kind of open my eyes, and I see him shoot her.
[20:05:14]And everything`s running through my head. I`m, like, I`m done. My life is done. This is -- I`m done. I`m praying to God. And I just
prayed to God, Oh, my God, please don`t let me be the last...
GRACE: You pray.
COLON: I don`t want to leave like this. I do not want to leave like this and...
GRACE: Did you just say that you prayed? Angel, did you just say that you prayed?
GRACE: Let me understand this because this is a fact I did not know. So you`re down with three gunshot wounds, people trampling you. You heard a
bone break. And you`re holding onto some girl that`s laying there beside you. You hear the bullets getting closer and closer.
You`re face down. He comes over. He`s now shooting people down to make sure they`re dead. And he shoots the girl you`re holding onto in the
floor, and you begin to pray. What did you say? What was your prayer?
COLON: All I was saying was, God, not right now. I`m down like this already. I don`t want this to be the last thing. Just please, no.
And as I was praying, I don`t know if he was aiming for my head or whatever, but he shot my hand and he also shot my left side of the hip.
And I just -- I was just -- I didn`t scream. I didn`t move. I just heard those two shots. And I was laying there. And he just moved on to the next
GRACE: So you took two shots, and you didn`t make a sound.
COLON: No. I didn`t -- I didn`t (INAUDIBLE) I just laid down there. I was already -- I didn`t have any strength. I couldn`t talk. I was just
laying down there. I couldn`t move my legs. All I could move was my arms. But there was glass everywhere. I couldn`t crawl anywhere.
And by this time, I guess he ran to the front, and all I heard was gunshots. I`m assuming it was him and the police. So by this time, the
side door was open, and there was a cop there. And I wished I could remember his name or the way he looked because if it were not for him, I
would have not walked out of that place.
He looked at me and he`s, like, Are you alive? I look up at him, like, Yes. Get me out of here, please, please. He grabbed my arms, and he was,
like, The fastest way to get you out of here is if I just drag you and I run. I`m, like, All right. Do what you got to do to get me out of here.
And he grabbed me. He started running backwards. There was glass all over the floor. So while this was happening, I`m getting cut, my behind
GRACE: Well, let me understand something, Angel -- Angel Colon joining us from his hospital bed and is reporting tonight that he can move his legs.
He was afraid he would not be able to move his legs. He survived the shooting and is recounting the story about how the shooter came through the
nightclub, shooting people already down, lying on the floor to make sure they were dead.
He`s holding onto a girl he didn`t know laying beside him on the floor. The killer, Mateen, shoots her again, and he begins to pray. Mateen shoots
him again, more than once. He doesn`t make a sound. And Mateen moves on.
So when this police officer had come up to you, Angel, and said all this, where was the shooter?
COLON: I was assuming that he was by the front because all I heard was shots going back and forth. And it was a little bit far away, and most of
the policemen were up front. So I`m assuming that he was up front doing that and...
GRACE: So while the shooting is still going on, a police officer...
GRACE: ... comes in and says, Are you alive? You say, Yes, get me out of here, and he starts dragging you. While the guy is still armed and still
shooting, a cop comes in to try and save you.
COLON: Yes. He runs in, he grabs me and he`s just dragging me. He gets me out of the building. He drags me across the street because that`s where
they were dragging everyone who was alive or who they can get out.
And I was just laying down there. I could not believe what was happening. I couldn`t believe how heartless this guy was. I couldn`t believe how
ruthless this guy was, how he can just stand there and keep shooting while you`re down.
GRACE: Did you ever see his face?
COLON: No, I did not. My face was turned down. I never looked up. (INAUDIBLE) gunshots.
GRACE: Did he ever say anything? Did he say anything, the shooter?
[20:10:02]COLON: I didn`t hear anything. I`ve heard in other interviews that in the other room, he was laughing, supposedly. But it was just --
just the way that I can hear people screaming while they`re getting shot. It`s something -- it`s unbelievable. I don`t know how some guy like this
GRACE: When you got dragged across the street by the police officer, what was going through your mind?
COLON: I was -- I was in shock still. I can hear the gunshots still going on in the front. So I`m, like, All right, I think I have a chance. I
think I have a chance in life again. And I`m just telling the cop, Please, go fast. Go fast. Get me out of here. Please, go fast. And the cop did
what he could do the fastest way, and he got me across the street.
And he ran back into the building, and that`s why I wish I could know who he is because after that, I never saw him again.
GRACE: So you never even got to say, Thank you, man.
COLON: No, never.
GRACE: If you could speak to him right now, what would you say?
COLON: I would hope I can see him in person and I will give him the biggest hug, the biggest kiss, anything I can do to him, because he`s the
one that got me out of there. He`s the one that got me out of there.
I cannot -- I was going to crawl. My arms were already bleeding. The floor was full of glass. I was in shock, so I was not going to crawl out
of the building.
GRACE: Everyone, joining me is Angel Colon, who survived the deadliest shooting on U.S. soil.
Tonight, we learn an investigation into the shooter`s wife. Did she know about this? Did she help him scope out targets? But what I know now is
that this man, Angel Colon, is alive and joining us from his hospital bed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:16:00]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Started going through the wall towards us.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s shooting everyone that`s already dead on the floor, making sure they`re dead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was on the ground in a pool of blood.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Looking at the gunman`s feet under the stall as he paces. The guilt of feeling lucky to be alive is heavy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: The worst shooting on U.S. soil by an American, born and bred, raised in New York.
Joining me right now, Polo Sandoval at the shooter`s apartment. Polo, CNN national correspondent, thank you for being with us. What did we learn?
When I saw video and shots inside his apartment, it looked totally Americanized. There was a "Star Wars" shower curtain. There were -- it
was all Americanized totally!
POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Pictures on the walls, Nancy. It`s a household that you would see anywhere else in America. So that`s what has
so many people in this part of Florida stunned. We`re only about a two- hour drive south of Orlando where the shooting happened.
I have to remind you that the feds were very quick to call this a terrorist-inspired act, which means that the gunman wasn`t necessarily in
contact with anybody overseas, but more one of those home-grown terrorists. So the question is, where did that inspiration come from?
Obviously, the gunman is not around to answer questions, so now authorities will go to those closest to him, and that includes former and current
family members. His father, for example, who spoke to reporters a short while ago, Seddique Mateen, saying that he last saw his son only 12 hours
before the shooting happened, and in his own words, his son was acting normal.
We are also just learning that the suspect -- the gunman himself actually donated blood at a site not far from where we are only two weeks before the
shooting. So by all accounts, he was acting fairly normal, according to several witnesses.
And finally, Nancy, a lot of the attention right now is on his current wife, Noor Salman, who we are told is cooperating with investigators, has
not spoken publicly, but according to one affiliate, actually came here to the apartment that she shared with the gunman and a child to actually
retrieve some belongings.
But there are several reports now indicating that she may have at least had some knowledge that this could have been coming. But again, no charges
have been filed. She has not been arrested. But a lot of questions are being asked right now in the conversations with her, Nancy.
GRACE: Polo Sandoval, CNN national correspondent, joining us there on the scene in Ft. Pierce. Polo, when you say she may have known, what do you
mean by that?
SANDOVAL: There were several reports that she may have known that he had visited this nightclub on several occasions and possibly even driven with
him to the location on that fateful night, and by some accounts, even tried to talk him out of it. That obviously would indicate or at least suggest
that she had some knowledge that this was about to happen.
But again, we have to stress charges have not been filed, she`s not been arrested and she is cooperating with investigators. When reporters asked
Mateen`s dad if he had any idea that his daughter-in-law could potentially be facing charges, he did not really elaborate, didn`t really answer that
question specifically, only saying that he, too, is speaking to investigators. So a lot can happen in the next few hours.
GRACE: Let me understand what you just said, Polo. Did you say that not only did she visit the nightclub Pulse with him on several prior occasions,
but actually drove him there that night?
SANDOVAL: Right, that she may have had knowledge that he had visited that nightclub on several occasions, and that again, according to several
reports here on the ground, that possibly even rode with him and drove with him to that location, as well. Again, this is all preliminary information
that`s still coming out. Eventually, investigators plan to release more information. But until they do that, we won`t actually have those versions
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Margie Mow joining me out of LA, Robin Ficker out of Maryland. I assume that you just heard what Polo Sandoval just
said, that, Robin Ficker, there is some evidence or some reports that she drove him there that night. She didn`t see the guns?
[20:20:09]ROBIN FICKER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: She saw the guns. But what strikes me is that this guy had been investigated twice as a home-grown
jihadist by the FBI. They only have a thousand investigations going at any one time. He had two. Why was he taken off the terrorist watch list? Why
hasn`t the FBI fired the man that took him off that watch list?
GRACE: OK, yes, I hear you. And that totally did not answer even remotely the question I asked to you. Mow, she couldn`t even see, she couldn`t see
the gun? She drives him there, lets him off. She didn`t see those guns?
MARGIE MOW, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: We don`t know that she drove him there. That`s what people are saying, but it`s not a fact yet. However, if she
did -- if she did, then she was under a duty to report it and she should be held accountable for not doing so.
GRACE: Hold on just a moment. Hold on one second, Margie. Mike Galanos joining me, in addition to Polo Sandoval, Mike joining us there near Pulse
nightclub, Mike Galanos. What is the latest on the wife of the shooter and the reported investigation into her helping him or at least knowing about
the incident? It is true, Mike Galanos? Is there any evidence to support that she was with him when he bought ammunition?
MIKE GALANOS, HLN NEWS ANCHOR: Well, I`ll tell you this, Nancy, what the FBI is looking at is, was she with him when he cased Disney property, along
with the Pulse nightclub that`s just right behind me? They go as a family in April to Disneyworld. Was that a surveillance mission? And then they
go back or he goes back. Was she with him? That`s one of the questions. But he goes back June 1st through 6th. That coincides with Gay Days at
Disneyworld. And the question that you`re asking, though, and the FBI is looking into it, did his wife know?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:26:16]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Engaged in a gun battle with that suspect.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The scary part was that he didn`t even say anything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If I didn`t know 1 percent that he`s committing such a crime, my son.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At that point, I feel, like, the heat just go down my leg.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Joining us tonight, in addition to our reporters on the scene, is Angel Colon, who survived that nightclub shooting, who is telling me that
as he grabbed the woman, the girl lying next to him as they both lay in the floor, the shooter, Mateen, continued to shoot people down to make sure
they were dead, pumping additional bullets into dead bodies, even coming up to him and shooting him again as he lay face down before a police officer,
risking his own life, pulls Colon outside to safety.
Joining me now, Martin Savidge and Polo Sandoval. To you, Martin Savidge. What can you tell me about soft targets?
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Soft targets, of course, is a term that`s used now in terroristic terms, and it implies that many places in
the United States are open to potential attack. They`re not guarded. They`re not necessarily covered by security walls or even by security
technology. We`re talking about shopping malls. We`re talking about movie theaters. In this case we`re talking about a nightclub.
That`s what`s referred to in the parlance of soft targets, and there are a lot of them, as we understand, and that`s what this particular person took
advantage of. He saw a place where a lot of people go, a lot of people he clearly hated. It wasn`t heavily guarded. And he attacked a soft target
with a huge casualty number.
GRACE: You know, when you say soft target, I translate that in my mind to children, to people unarmed, unprotected, like shopping malls, like our
beloved Disney. And we know for a fact he had been going visiting Disney and Disney Springs possibly, and I believe casing it out.
In addition to Martin Savidge, with me is Polo Sandoval. Polo, can you tell me about the shooter`s experience at a U.S. law enforcement academy?
SANDOVAL: Right, Nancy. We do understand, based on several reports from law enforcement here, that he had actually attended a law enforcement
training facility, but according to some of his peers was behaving in strange ways, and to a certain extent, that facility actually expelled him
from that. And eventually, though, he was able to get that license and get the necessary training to be employed by that security company where he
worked at various locations, from different neighborhoods to a local courthouse, too, as well. So obviously, there`s some questions into how he
was able to actually...
GRACE: Did I just hear you say, Polo, that he worked at a courthouse?
SANDOVAL: Right. Even just a few moments ago, we spoke to an attorney, a local attorney, who reported seeing him working the security checkpoint
there. Obviously, several of these courthouses, several of these facilities employ different contractors. So we`re still digging into his
past and his role there. But again, that`s not first time that we hear that he actually worked at the screening area of one of the courthouses
here, not far from Orlando.
GRACE: You know, back to you, Marty -- Marty joining us there in Orlando, Polo joining us from Ft. Pierce, Florida. Martin, the reality is there is
evidence he was casing Disney. And back to this theory about him and law enforcement. He studied at, I believe it was, Indian Springs Police
[20:30:03] SAVIDGE: Right. Two really troubling things. Of course, number one, anybody who is sort of looking at Disney as a possible terror attack,
for a family member, for a tourist, that is your worst nightmare.
You`re going there with your family, you`re going there with your kids, you`re going there to ...
GRACE: I mean ...
SAVIDGE: ... their magic kingdom.
GRACE: You know ...
SAVIDGE: ... And to think that someone wants to turn it into a massacre, is stunning. It didn`t happen. And that`s important to note.
GRACE: That, apart from another workplace. Is that Disney, that`s for children. Martin, there is evidence he and his wife, and that has got to be
confirmed, were together casing Disney, of all places.
SAVIDGE: But they didn`t strike it. And that`s the important thing to note. Disney does have very strong security. Some you will see, some you will
never see. He clearly saw it.
This goes into the training we were just talking about. He had training. He was looking at it from a law enforcement mind-set. Disney wasn`t going to
work for him. He went somewhere else. And that`s the problem.
[20:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rifle, assault type rifle and a handgun.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He laughed. And as he`s laughing, that`s when he fires.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the gunshots kept going, they kept going, they kept going, they kept going.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Joining me now on the scene is Martin Savidge, CNN National Correspondent. Martin, this is what`s coming out now in addition to a
potential investigation into his wife, who reportedly was even with him when he went and bought ammo, now the woman is saying she`s cooperating. I
guess she is cooperating now.
But my question is, this was all linked to radical Islam. But it may be something very, very different from that because now we`re learning that
this guy, Mateen, the shooter, the killer, had been to Pulse nightclub many, many times. Reports that he had tried to spark relationships with
other men in the past. All of this coming out now. What do we know, Martin Savidge?
SAVIDGE: We`re finding out this is a much more complicated scenario than what we may have first thought. In other words, that a person who had
terrorist leanings, had hate in his heart, chose a site that had a lot of people. It has a lot more to it, apparently, than that. It goes into other
questions about his own sexuality? Or was he reaching out in the gay community as a person who was literally planning the people he wants to
kill? You don`t know if he is just crazy or if he`s psychotic here. So this is early in the investigation ...
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Martin Savidge, Martin Savidge, you and I have gone round and round about this on many occasions. This was
too premeditated to chalk him off as crazy. He had been visiting ...
SAVIDGE: Oh, absolutely.
GRACE: ... these locations. He had tried to get a body armor. He had gotten the weapons. He`d gotten the ammo. The works. This is so premeditated,
SAVIDGE: Correct. I`m not suggesting that he`s got some sort of mental excuse, not at all. What I`m suggesting is that he is sick in a way that
most of us cannot understand but also that there was some intelligence, in his mind, as to what he was doing.
The planning, the plotting, the scoping out targets. But there are other factors here, and it appears that they may bear on his personality, even
his own sexuality. There is still a lot more we need to know, Nancy, if we want to fully understand whether national, international or domestic
GRACE: To Ray Caputo, reporter with WDBO. Ray, what more do you know?
RAY CAPUTO, NEWS 96.5 WDBO REPORTER: Well, Nancy, Martin said it best. He`s a very complicated person, this guy. Now, he has been to Pulse. There are
actually club goers that have seen him, that know him, that have talked to him.
One witness said he saw him there many times over the past three years. Perhaps even two times a month. He said that Mateen would get really drunk
and loud because he couldn`t do it at home because his father wouldn`t let him.
But that same witness also saw the violent side of him. He said he started steering clear of Mateen after he saw him pull a knife on somebody in that
We also know that he`s met men on gay dating app and these men have actually seen him in person and recognized him at the club. So, like Martin
said, we don`t know if this is a part of his personality that`s closeted or if he`s diabolical that he`s been planning this out for the past three
years. I wouldn`t put it past him.
GRACE: You know, Ray Caputo joining us, WDBO. I`m very interested in behavioral evidence, as you know. I`m interested in how he behaved, when he
was spotted at Pulse and/or any other nightclub, how would he behave? Did he behave as if he was scoping it out or did he behave as if he were there
to meet somebody?
CAPUTO: Probably the former because we know that he was quiet. He kind of kept to himself. We do know he interacted with people but there`s a bunch
of accounts of him kind of standing by himself and having a drink and watching and what I would assume is he probably would have a little too
many and then get drunk and then have some situations like we`ve also heard described.
But it seems to me like he was casing this place out, that he had this in the back of his mind that he was going to do this all along.
[20:40:00] GRACE: You know what`s interesting, Matt Zarrell, there are reports that he felt very open and dancing and drinking and meeting other
guys at the club, and that`s as far back as 2006 that there are reports he was asking guys out. So
in my mind, was he there casing the place or was he just there to have a good time?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: All indications are from witnesses that he was just there to have a good time. There were times that he would get
drunk and belligerent, that some people saw him at the club at least a dozen times. That he would actually tell people, Nancy, that he had a wife
and child. He would tell people in the club about his family.
GRACE: With me right now is a very special guest. It is Al Ferguson, the friend and boss of victim Eddie Sotomayor. Al, thank you for being with us.
AL FERGUSON, FRIEND AND BOSS OF VICTIM EDDIE SOTOMAYOR: Of course, Nancy, thank you for allowing me to talk about Eddie.
I`m just so sorry, speaking as a crime victim, for the pain that you and so many others are going through. What can you tell me about Eddie?
FERGUSON: Eddie was a very bright young guy. He had accomplished so much already, but what is the most sad to me is he had so much ahead of him.
He was smart. He was funny. He was sarcastic. Everyone loved his sarcasm because it wasn`t painful; it was funny and enjoyable and it allowed you to
be funny and sarcastic right back with him and as a result, it engaged great relationships with Eddie.
And I know one of the things that`s gratifying for me and I hope for -- and I know for everybody that knew Eddie, there are thousands of people in
social media talking about Eddie in the United States and in Europe. A lot of people in Europe that knew him, talking about how great a person Eddie
was and how tragic this situation is.
[20:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PATTY SHEEHAN, ORLANDO COMMISSIONER; LGBT ACTIVIST: This is heartbreaking.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They`re shooting, they`re shooting.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The gunshots never stopped.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re yelling at him being like, `please, please, don`t do this. You don`t want to do this.` Like, `just spare us.`
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was just tragic.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Joining me now, famed forensic pathologist, Dr. William Morrone. Dr. Morrone, what about forensics?
DR. WILLIAM MORRONE, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: There`s a certain set of specialists that operate out of Washington, D.C. in Health and Human
Services for the government called DMORT, that`s Disaster Mortuary Operations Response Team.
They usually service plane crashes, hurricanes and very large transportation accidents, and DMORT can come in, and Florida is a Region IV
for DMORT, and they`ll bring funeral directors, coroners, radiographers to make x-rays, people to look at dental records, fingerprints, and DMORT`s
job is the identification and process of the individuals on the scene to gather information.
And like I said previously, you know, we used them for plane crashes and they would be used in something like this because the local authorities
will be overwhelmed. DMORT can use refrigerated trucks to hold things.
GRACE: Right. Joining me is Dr. William Morrone. I`m hearing in my ear right now I`m being joined by Saba Ahmed, President and Founder of the
Republican Muslim Coalition.
Thank you so much for being with us. And my question to you is, how do you react? What do you say to those people who will now associate Islam with
SABA AHMED, FOUNDER OF REPUBLICAN MUSLIM COALITION: Well, Islam does not allow any sort of murders against innocent human beings. And therefore, we
are very much shocked by what has happened in Florida, and we strongly condemn it in the most strongest possible terms.
GRACE: What is your message to Americans tonight, Saba?
AHMED: This person does not represent Islam. This person has nothing to do with Muslim religion. He hurt his family and he hurt American people, and
we are deeply saddened by what has happened.
GRACE: I am now being joined, in addition to Saba Ahmed and Dr. Morrone, by Chris Robinson, firearms expert. Chris Robinson`s Forensic. How easy is it
to get an AR-15-style assault weapon in America?
CHRIS ROBINSON, FIREARMS EXPERT: Extremely easy. You can go purchase one for $750 at the local gun store right now.
GRACE: And do you have to show any particular proof of your identity, why you need this type of a weapon? Nothing, right? Just go up and get it, just
like you`re going to the grocery store.
ROBINSON: You fill out your I.D. and you fill out the ATF form, and then you`re ready to go. You can purchase the weapon.
GRACE: How difficult is it to fire a gun like the one you`re holding?
ROBINSON: Extremely easy. It has a three-pound trigger pull, it has a 30- round magazine, so it would be very easy to fire this weapon.
GRACE: When you pull with one trigger pull, how many bullets come out?
ROBINSON: Just one. This is a semi-automatic weapon.
GRACE: And what about reloading?
ROBINSON: Very quick. You just drop the magazine and place in a magazine and it`s ready to go.
[20:50:00] GRACE: How easy would it be to conceal something like that on your body going into a place like Pulse?
ROBINSON: It would be, depending on how you`re holding the weapon, you could hold it underneath your shirt in a coat. It`s a black weapon, as you
can see, so it`d be very easy to conceal for a short time.
GRACE: With me is Chris Robinson, Chris Robinson Forensics, which leads me to you, Mike Galanos, HLN news anchor, joining on the scene. How in the
hey, if the wife takes him to Pulse that night, could she not see that? Did you see that?
MIKE GALANOS, HLN NEWS ANCHOR: That`s what the FBI investigators are looking at, Nancy. We`re also finding out, reportedly, that the wife drove
him to Pulse, drove him to get weapons as well.
So did she know? And what else authorities are looking at, if she knew, did she remain silent? That`s a crime. She could be facing criminal charges if
she knew he was going to commit a terrorist act and said nothing. That`s what`s being looked at.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Margie Mow and Robin Ficker. OK, Margie Mow, give me your defense. I mean, true, she has not been charged, so you don`t
both need to tune up with, she hasn`t been charged. I know she hasn`t been charged.
And don`t give me second verse same as the first, she`s cooperating. I guess she is cooperating. I`d be cooperating, too.
So, how can you go with your husband to buy all that, according to reports, help him case out spots. According to other reports, still unconfirmed
reports, that she tried to talk him out of it. You can`t see that gun, did you see that gun Chris Robinson just held up, Margie?
MOW: Yes, I did. Just because you`re in a relationship with somebody, doesn`t know that you know what internal demons are haunting them. That
doesn`t mean that you know that he`s having some sort of terrorist plan or that when you go to Disneyland with your family, he`s actually casing the
place to ...
GRACE: I agree with you on that, Margie. I agree with you on that. But to you, Ficker? Sure, it`s not the law that the state must crawl into the mind
of a defendant or a suspect and figure out what they`re thinking.
But when you go ask somebody to buy reams and reams of ammo, you help them case out spots and then you take them to location -- try to talk him out of
If the reports are true, they`re still unconfirmed, drop him off with a weapon like that? Is that not a co-conspirator if she knew all that?
FICKER: Well, if she helped plan this horrendous crime, certainly she`s a co-conspirator. But if she had a mere suspicion that he might do something
wrong with the weapon that he legally bought, she is not guilty of anything.
[20:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: The deadliest mass shooting on U.S. soil. To Ray Caputo, reporter WDBO, what we are learning tonight is overwhelming. What do you make of the
fact that the wife may have gone with him to buy all this ammo, Ray Caputo?
CAPUTO: Well, Nancy we know Mateen is a very controlling guy. We learned that from his ex-wife. He beat her; he took her money from work. So, it`s
not farfetched to say that he had this type of control over her. You know, I -- I certainly don`t understand it, but some women, I guess, fall victim
to that sort of thing.
We know that for sure, that she was with him when he bought the guns. We don`t know if she drove with him yet. We know that he cased the place out
one time, and she was. We don`t know that night if she actually drove him. Now, in terms of the charges, we heard that she`s cooperating with police.
That might help her out in the end.
GRACE: Also with me, Dr. Chloe Carmichael. Dr. Carmichael, Clinical Psychologist out of New York, Ne York. Dr. Carmichael, explain to me what
DR. CHLOE CARMICHAEL, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Sure, Nancy, self-loathing certainly comes into play here. We were asking the question earlier if this
may be some kind of a reaction formation or because the shooter was gay himself that he chose to act out as a radical Islamic terrorist in this
particular way of opening fire.
So, reaction formation is, in Psychology, when you actually have a tendency toward something yourself, that you take a really public posture against
it. That doesn`t mean that he`s not also a radical Islamic terrorist, as he did pledge allegiance to ISIS.
GRACE: Chloe, another issue is, I understand what Ray Caputo is saying about being under Mateen`s control, but not to even call 911 that night if
CARMICHAEL: Well, I agree 100 percent, Nancy. I mean, the idea that she would be aware that he has these weapons and planning an attack.
GRACE: Tonight we honor American hero, Orlando shooting survivor, Joshua McGill, risking his life, saving a 27-year-old victim with multiple
gunshots, dragging him behind a car. Still, using shirts as makeshift tourniquets, even riding with him in the ambulance. Joshua McGill, American
(Inaudible) Cure needs your help to win a grant to fight child cancer. Vote on the home page, curechildhoodcancer.org.
Thank you for being with us, joining us in your homes. Nancy Grace, signing off. See you tomorrow night, and until then, good night friend.