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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Donald Trump Continues to Attack Powerful Women; Trump Rattles Leaders of Different Countries; Clinton Defends Email Use After Critical Report; Will Email Report Widen; Clinton's Trust Gap?; California Stakes For Clinton, Sanders; Clinton, Trump On The Attack; Trump Clinches GOP Nomination; Clinton & The Trust Factor; Trump & Sanders Debate Talks; Trump And Clinton Trade Jabs; The Unmasking Of Kiss; Ken Starr Out As President In Baylor Scandal. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired May 26, 2016 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[20:00:13] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: And good evening. Thanks very much for joining us.
Donald Trump just wrapped up an event tonight in Billings, Montana after locking up the Republican nomination earlier today in going over the 1237 delegate line. He erased any serious notion of a never Trump movement and took one step closer to the White House.
Now tonight, the reaction both here and around the world to his numerical triumph as well as his ongoing attacks on string of powerful women including the Republican governor of New Mexico and the Democratic senator he calls Pocahontas.
Also, the offhand remark last night on late night TV that could turn into a debate with Bernie Sanders.
Also, his vice presidential possibilities and Secretary Clinton strategy for trying to defeat him in the fall.
A big hour tonight starting with Trump rather plugged at a press conference this afternoon talking about many of those things after securing the nomination. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I am very unhappy when I look at the world of radical Islam, Obama could never come up with a solution, number one, he is incompetent. And number two the solution just as never going to be out there for him. We are going to start rebuilding our military. We have no choice. We have no choice. It is not like gee, we are going to make the military stronger than ever before. Problem debating Bernie, he is going to lose because honestly his system is rigged just like our system is rigged.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Elizabeth Warren, she seems to have made her job.
TRUMP: Who, Pocahontas? I think she is as Native American as I am, OK? That I will tell you. But she is a woman that's been very ineffective other than she has got a big mouth. Hillary Clinton, she is worse than Obama. She wants to - I mean, she actually openly said I want to put coal miners out of business.
I have gone solo on occasion but it is a very, very expensive thing. Wind is very expensive. If you go to various places in California, wind is killing the eagles. You know, if you saw an eagle, you kill an eagle, they want to put you in jail five years. And yet the windmills of killing hundreds and hundreds of eagles. One of the most beautiful, treasured birds. Nothing happens.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: That was Donald Trump earlier today in Bismarck, North Dakota which is where we find CNN's Jim Acosta.
So Donald Trump certainly not tempering his attacks on neither Hillary Clinton nor certainly Elizabeth Warren today. What's the latest tonight?
JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Not at all, Anderson. As for Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump took note of the fact that the pundits, all of the political experts out there were predicting that his convention in Cleveland would be the one that would be messy, that would be contested. And he was delighting in the fact that now it is Hillary Clinton that has a fight on her hands. And he said that she can't close the deal.
Now, as for Elizabeth Warren, you heard during that sound mash up that you played there that he once again referred to the senator from Massachusetts as Pocahontas. I can tell you because I was in the press conference, Anderson. It was at that moment when a Native- American reporter shouted from behind me that's offensive. She took offense to that comment. And then Donald Trump later said about Elizabeth Warren. When I asked him that he would-be open to debating the Massachusetts senator. So in addition to preparing for Hillary Clinton in the fall, he is open to debating Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren. It just shows you we are on president election cycle we are in right now, Anderson.
COOPER: And he rally in Montana that just wrapped up, anything particularly jump out at you?
ACOSTA: Yes. You know, there was one comment that Donald Trump made that goes to show you he is fully of confidence right now. He said at one point that he doesn't want that wall that he wants to build on the Mexican border to be named after him. He would rather have his own statue in Washington, D.C., he was joking. He said he would be happy to share one with Thomas Jefferson.
Anderson, we were in the Dakotas today. So, it is a little surprising he didn't make a claim for Mount Rushmore. But I guess there are five months to go, Anderson.
COOPER: All right. Yes, long time. We will see.
Jim Acosta, thanks.
Whether securing the nomination, dealing with Elizabeth Warren or New Mexico's Republican Latina governor and possibly Bernie Sanders, eagles, you name it, there is certainly a lot to talk about tonight.
Joining us is former congressional black caucus executive director Angela Rye, Democratic strategist and former 2008 Clinton campaign adviser Maria Cardona, CNN political director David Chalian, also Trump supporter and former South Carolina Andre Bauer, former Romney campaign strategist Stuart Stevens, he is a Trump critic, CNN's Amanda Carpenter, former communications director for Senator Ted Cruz.
Andre, welcome to the program.
ANDRE BAUER, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Thank you.
COOPER: So you hear Donald Trump, you hear a reporter yell that's offensive. Isn't appropriate for Donald Trump to be calling Elizabeth Warren, Pocahontas, native Americans say that's offensive to do?
BAUER: Clearly, it is not how I would conduct business. But you know, I have been a presidential nominee, he has gotten further than further than that today he ever gotten. So, you know, I don't think I can question what he is doing because it is working for him.
COOPER: Is it appropriate? I mean, you know, there's stuff that works, but does it work as a president? Would it be appropriate for president Trump?
[20:05:02] BAUER: Anderson, I would have thought by now he would have gotten more moderate. The frustration level is out there and he probably understands the temperament of the folks. So Johnny lunch bucket is what I call that individual. There is a person in the middle there. There is not a Republican, not a Democrat, watches your show, some new show, and is frustrated, and looking for answers, and someone that has backbone which Trump does. And most politicians will say whatever it takes to not offend anybody and court that fine line. And he said, hey, I am going to own what I believe and people will refresh by it even if they don't believe it. If you don't believe that, look at South Carolina where the evangelical community voted for him which actually even shocked me. Supported way back in the middle of February, it was early on. But even so, those folks said, you know what, there is a bigger picture here. We are not going to be a single issue candidate. We are not (INAUDIBLE) this time, the nation is at a point where we feel we need somebody that has really some backbone, so I think people are refreshed by it.
COOPER: Stuart, yesterday you were talking about him going after the Latina governor of New Mexico, Republican, that just strategically it made no actual sense. Does it make sense for him to continue to go after Elizabeth Warren?
STUART STEVENS, FORMER ROMNEY 2012 STRATEGIST: I don't know what he gets out of it. It is offensive that he calls her Pocahontas. The nature of the civil society is that we recognize difference. America was founded on this ides of a melting pot. There are Native Americans. Donald Trump wrote a book in which he claim to be Swedish when in fact he is a German ancestor. So if anyone ask he has legitimate claim to not owning up to their heritage, it is Donald Trump. But if you're in the eighth grade or something and call someone else Pocahontas, a teacher says don't do that.
COOPER: If you're CEO of a company.
STEVENS: And if you're CEO of a company, you would be fired. So I think that one of the greatest dangers of Donald Trump is the idea that he might normalize a speech and an attitude that as a group in America we have decided is unacceptable. And it is not about being politically incorrect, it is about being rude and offensive.
COOPER: That's what's interesting, Amanda. Because now he is sort of labeled, any time you challenge him on saying something like that, well, you're just, you know, you are just a slave to political correctness, which it does sort of -- it is an effective argument among his supporters to cancel out any speech which is offensive to, you know, large populations of Americans.
AMANDA CARPENTER, FORMER CRUZ COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: He delights in labeling people. And I think there is something really interesting going on the way that he is going after Elizabeth Warren, Susana Martinez, you name it. Donald Trump is functionally operating as an independent even though he is the Republican nominee. He doesn't care about party labels at all. That's why do see him going and blasting the Republican governor of New Mexico. You see him blasting whoever it is at any given point in time.
He is forging a new path forward and I think we all get - I think it is intentional that he throws out Pocahontas so we are distracted by what he is doing and how he is campaigning. Look at the press conference today. Aside from Pocahontas, it was actually the most presidential I think he has been. He stood there and took a number of questions on energy policy. He strangely said that he thought the United States government should get a cut in profits of the keystone pipeline. This is an idea I don't think anyone has ever proposed, anyone has heard of. It doesn't belong to any party. And so, we should start looking at the policies he is proposing because slowly he is slipping in and doing it. We are hung up on Pocahontas, but I want to pay a little bit more attention to the policy.
COOPER: David, and yet, I mean, he has now clinched the nomination. It is a big milestone.
DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: He has. I mean, if I told you a year ago that we would be sitting here and he will clinched the nomination and Hillary Clinton would have her nomination fight going on, I don't think anyone would have believed that.
You know, Amanda, I hear what you're saying, and I agree that he has forged his new path. And yet he has been spending the last few weeks as the presumptive nominee trying to piece together sort of every faction of the conservative coalition, have meeting with evangelical leaders, and reaching out to Henry Kissinger (ph) for some national security credentials. I mean, he spent time in Trump tower trying to get people on board who have been reluctant thus far to come on board. He realizes that consolidating the Republican Party since he is the nominee of the party is critical. And I think it is actually seeing that consolidation in the polls is what has him in a real competitive position.
CARPENTER: I will say I think he is building relationships with people. They're not necessarily based on any policies. We have been promised. He said he will give these speeches on judicial nomination nations, he didn't do that. He threw out a list that was largely compiled by other Republican lawyers that he later that we were just suggestion. He is not binding himself to anything. He is not making any promises but it is a big deal that he is even holding these meetings.
COOPER: Maria, the idea of Trump-Sanders debate which Jimmy Kimmel asked Donald Trump about it, I don't know if it caught Donald Trump by surprised, he sort of thrilled, seemed to open to the idea saying donate to charity, the ratings would be huge. This campaign seems now to have walk that back saying, you know, it was more of a joke. Bernie Sanders seemed to embrace to fully embraced this idea and seems to - would like to make it happen certainly before California. If it actually did happen, big if, would that hurt Hillary Clinton? Would it sort of sideline her?
[20:10:14] MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I don't think it would, but more importantly I don't think it's going to happen. I mean, first of all, can we really believe anything that Donald Trump says? You know, he says that he would do this debate. He wants $10 million for it. Anderson, is CNN is going to up $10 million? I don't know of any network or organization that would do that. But I think, you know, more importantly it focuses on sort of the frivolous nature of things that Donald Trump puts out there. And he does it, I agree to, distract us because I think it is a distraction because he doesn't have any real policy proposals to put out there and to, frankly, you know, he has been on the attack for Elizabeth Warren, to Hillary Clinton certainly. He has not proven that he can meet her on the battlefield of ideas.
And I don't think that this is somebody, this is not having backbone. Andre, and I appreciate that you are not out there to completely defending these obviously offensive remarks. This is being a bully, you know, point blank. And that's very simple. And I think a lot of Americans understand that they have a choice to make. And the problem that Donald Trump right now, even though he is consolidating Republicans, he is going to have to do a lot more in order to win the election. He is going to have to do more in terms of getting support from all of these demographics that he is.
COOPER: I want to go to Angela in a second. But Andre, are you concerned as a Trump supporter about the lack of specificity on a lot of his ideas? I mean, we have been talking about this obviously from long ago, but a lot of things Donald Trump talks about are the same things he is talking about, building a wall, we are going to do great things for the vets, I'm going to build the military stronger than it has even been. But there is not really a lot of specifics. At this point in the race, are you concerned there's never going to be a lot more specifics?
BAUER: I think he is actually reading the tea leaves brilliantly. He is not having to use any of his ammunition right now. He is neck and neck in all the polls we see and he (INAUDIBLE).
COOPER: I am not saying it is smart in terms of running a race, I am just wondering as an actual person who could be president, does it concern you?
BAUER: Well, we are all going to know where he stands or at least it is going to be defined. We have a long time before the election. We don't even know who his opponent is yet. And so, to start throwing that up and using that media time right now when you have him on every hour on the hour, why would he give out all of the nuggets of what he intends to do so they can be challenged when he can save them until fall.
STEVENS: What is Donald Trump most noted for? A ban on all non- American Muslims coming to the United States. Which when you think about it, that's a religious test to enter the United States. So Muslims are one quarter of the world, but it is not just Muslim. You have to prove that you are not a Muslim. So you are going to stand at Heathrow and prove your religion before you can come to the United States. It is the most fundamentally un-American idea and it is an absurd and he is going to get Mexico to pay for a wall.
Now, does anybody who really believes that Mexico is going to pay for this wall, I would like them to stand up. It is an absurd idea.
COOPER: I want to get Angela in but we do have to take a break. So you are the first one when we come to right after the break.
Having heard so much about how Donald Trump sees the world, we are to take a closer look at how the world sees Donald Trump for many countries right now. He is, as President Obama soda today, rattling world leaders. That's what Obama claims. Is that true? We will look at that.
Later, new polling and the very real possibility that Hillary Clinton could lock up the Democratic nomination at the same time she loses a primary to Bernie Sanders.
[20:17:28] COOPER: Hey, welcome back. Long before Donald Trump locked up the Republican nomination, people were trying the word on president Trump for size seeing how it fit their notion of what a president and commander in-chief in this country's leading global ambassador would be. Speaking to day at the G-7 Summit in Japan, the current office holder weighed in on what he is hearing from other world leaders about Donald Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They are rattled by him and for good reason. He does a lot of proposals that he has made display either ignorance of world affairs or a cavalier attitude or an interest in getting tweets and headlines instead of actually thinking through what it is that is required to keep America safe and secure and prosperous and what's required to keep the world on an even keel.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: All right. So you might imagine, Donald Trump did not let that go up answered.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: When you rattle someone, that's good because many of the world as you know, many of the countries in our world, a beautiful world, have been absolutely abusing us and taking advantage of us. So if they are rattled in a friendly way, we are going to have great relationships with these countries. But if they are rattled in a friendly way, that's a good thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Question for the panel tonight I guess is, is it really?
First CNN's Clarissa Ward set the global stage.
CLARISSA WARD, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At first candidate Trump was the subject of international fascination and even amusement. But it didn't take long for the maverick contender to ruffling feathers.
TRUMP: They're bringing drugs, crime, they're rapists. Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States.
WARD: International condemnation came in thick and fast. Mexico's former president compared him to Hitler. A Saudi prince called him a disgrace. And China's state run newspaper denounced him as big mouth. The list went on. International headlines warned of impending doom if he became the Republican nominee. Madness blared the cover of Germany's "Der Spiegel."
DAVID CAMERON, UK PRIME MINISTER: I think his remarks of divisive, stupid and wrong. And I think if he came to visit our country, I think it would unite us all against him.
WARD: Today, London's newly elected mayor, himself a Muslim, jumped on the band wagon calling Trump's views on Islam ignorant.
SADIQ KHAN, MAYOR OF LONDON, UK: Donald Trump and his team, their views on Islam are ignorant. This is inadvertently playing into the extremist plans by saying western values are incompatible with mainstream Islam (INAUDIBLE).
[20:20:14] TRUMP: Thank you, everybody.
WARD: Still, he does have one fan internationally, Russian president Vladimir Putin who has called Trump quote "an outstanding and talented personality." What's interesting is that since Trump became the presumptive
Republican nominee, the rhetoric from overseas has definitely softened considerably and we are likely to see that continue as world leaders begin to grapple with the very real possibility, Anderson, that they will have to deal with a president Trump.
ACOSTA: Clarissa, thanks very much.
More now on that process but also no amount of adaptation, changes, one bottom line fact. The world has never seen an American presidential candidate like this one.
Back with our panel. Angela, I can hear, I imagine, I haven't checked twitter, but Trump supporters watching that piece and say, well, you know what, good. Every time they hear "Der Spiegel" is upset, people who are Trump supporters probably say, you know what, that is not a bad thing.
ANGELA RYE, POLITICAL STRATEGIST: Yes. I think to the point, right, today at his press conference he said that it is probably good that world leaders would be rattled by his presidency. I think the reality of it for me is here we have a president who is a Nobel Peace Prize- winning Harvard law review, first black guy to do that. I mean, this brilliant, talented lawyer.
And I just see all of what has been accomplished is going down the tubes. It actually, to me, I think we are the laughing stock of the world. The fact that this is the Republican nominee, shame on the Republican Party. The fact this is someone who is getting all this attention in our country, shame on all of us.
And to that point, Anderson, I have to go back to what we were talking about before the break, this isn't about making Johnny lunch bucket OK and comfortable in his ignorance and his bigotry, this is about when you are on a, literally global stage, you see him, now reacting as from global citizen, you have every responsibility. A call to action to take people beyond their comfort zone, beyond where they are, that doesn't mean we don't address their fears and tell them legitimately some of the things that they have gone through in this country are OK, but it doesn't mean that we propaganda push, and we allow people to sit where they are, and blame other folks who aren't responsible for their conditions. A responsibility of Commander in-chief is to soften them with a way it makes a policy agenda, and he can't do that.
COOPER: Andre, I want you to respond.
BAUER: I can take it the rest of the time. First off, last time I checked, most of the countries around the world don't respect us the last eight years we had. We're not winning a popularity contest.
COOPER: Where do you see that? Because actually a lot of polls that I have seen globally actually do show the U.S. has improved.
BAUER: That' not what I see. And not when I traveled. But I would tell you this. Maybe they're fearful because the money train may end, the being world peace keeper may end, maybe there's going to be different approach, to hey, we are not looking for love from every country. We're looking for respect. And it is time they do respect someone that has so much policed the world, to get so many tax dollars of our own citizens. We make sure they have been spending them here. And that's what people in this country are fed up. The talking heads still don't get it. The media still don't get it. That's why the average Johnny lunch bucket is frustrated, and that's why they see hope in Donald Trump.
CARPENTER: And let me try to break the gap here. Because I do think there's a feeling in America that the worlds a more dangerous place for Americans. And a lot of that has to do with actions by the Obama administration, and that certainly can be debated among everyone. But certainly the rise of radical Islamic terrorism is a big deal. So Donald Trump comes in and says I am a strong person. People like that strength and are attracted to that.
That said, when Donald Trump is upsetting our allies in the world and causing up to people who are a threat to the United States like Putin, that's a cause for uncertainty. Nothing is more important than a U.S. president communicating stability to people that should be our friends. That's what makes Donald Trump dangerous. Yes, trade (ph) is great. But you don't know what he is being strong for and our allies can't defend upon him to be there when they may need us and that is the problem.
RYE: Well, even his own campaign doesn't know what he is strong for, right. Paul Manafort today said, well, he talked about the Muslim ban on the outside, it was just an initial thing. He is going to come in. Donald Trump is saying, no. I am not coming in. Muslim ban is still on the table. So he doesn't even know what he is strong on or about.
STEVENS: At the root of this is sort of grievance mongering that Donald Trump does. It is the sense that America is being taken advantage of by the world. Look, I'm a critic of President Obama. But America is the richest country in the world. We are the most successful country in the world and we have become that by interacting with the world. And if you go to France, if you go to Germany, if you go to Japan, you are going to find a lot of Americans who died helping make the world better because we have a sense we have to be part of the world. And America is respected for that. And for Donald Trump to take pride in rattling other nations, you're absolutely right. America, an unstable America and unstable American president is not a positive thing for Americans.
[20:25:40] CARDONA: And I think that that actually focuses on the image of who is this guy going to be as president? Is he going to be more like a dictator than a president? And I think it is also is interesting that he criticized President Obama in calling him incompetent when right now President Obama's approval ratings are in the 50s, a lot higher than Ronald Reagan was when he, at this point of his presidency. And the other thing is the criticism of Donald Trump's foreign policy
proposals are not just coming from partisans, they are coming from Robert Gates. They are coming from the GOP chairman of homeland security. They are coming from many Republicans who really do understand the nature of global policy, diplomacy, and the fact we're only five percent of the world and we need to interact with the world with the other 95 percent.
COOPER: We are going to talk more shortly.
Just ahead, a scathing report by the state department inspector general has put Hillary Clinton's email practices back in the spotlight. We cover this a lot last night. Could the report widen the trust gap she already faces with some voters?
Plus what's at stake in California, Bernie Sanders, the biggest prize left, 475 delegates at stake. What a win or loss may weaken Democrats. John King breaks it down for us ahead.
[20:30:47] COOPER: Democratic frontrunner Hillary Clinton spent a good part of the day defending her e-mail practices in the wake of a deeply critical report from the State Department inspector general. Among it's key findings the former secretary of state failed to follow the rules or inform key department staff regarding her use of a private e-mail server.
Secretary Clinton is long maintained she had permission to use personal e-mail and its cooperating fully with investigators. The report however found something else entirely, the Clinton and several of her staff declined to be interviewed for the investigation. Of course it couldn't come at a worse time for the campaign. She's still in the thick of a campaign many thought would have been long over and she's already facing a trust gap in polls at big one.
Here's Dana Bash.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Thank you ...
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Should a, would a, could a. Sentiments any candidate is load it to express on the campaign trail.
CLINTON: And as I've said many times, if I could go back, I would do it differently. I know people have concerns about this. I understand that.
BASH: Yet for Hillary Clinton, this week's state department inspector general report about how she mishandled e-mails as secretary of state could be especially damaging, beating a central liability with voters, honesty and trustworthiness.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would you vote for someone that you don't trust? CLINTON: Well people should and do trust me.
BASH: It all through the Democratic primary contests, voters who said the most important quality was trustworthiness only voted for Clinton in three states.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, (I-VT) DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I do question her judgment.
BASH: It's a vulnerability Bernie Sanders has worked hard to exploit, maybe not so much about her e-mail issue but he has spent months accusing Clinton of being in the pocket of big business and Wall Street. Her refusal to release transcripts of paid speeches to Goldman Sachs hasn't happened.
CLINTON: I have said look, there are certain expectations when you run for president. This is a new one.
BASH: The State Department damning report gives Donald Trump a fresh round of ammunition against her.
DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: As i say, crooked Hillary, crooked Hillary. She's as crooked as they come.
BASH: Assuming Clinton is the Democratic nominee, she already knows Trump's play book.
TRUMP: Bad judgment, scrutiny on the edge all the time, and you look back at her history, and this is her history.
BASH: But people's views of Trump are exactly the same, 64 percent say he's not honest and trustworthy either.
Running against Donald Trump, will Hillary Clinton have a big disadvantage if voters don't see her as honest and trustworthy or will it even matter?
JENNIFER AGIESTA, CNN DIRECTOR OF POLLING: In most polling on the question of honest and trustworthiness, the two candidates run about evenly. So it is sort of a wash, you know, neither one is really have seen it having an edge there.
BASH: Still, the most likely test for November will be which argument wins, this one?
TRUMP: If crooked Hillary Clinton is in charge, things will get much worse.
BASH: Or this?
CLINTON: But I think voters are going to be looking at the full picture of what I have to offer, my life and my service, and the full threat that Donald Trump offers our country.
BASH: Dana Bash, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Oh the final super Tuesday of this primary race less than two weeks away, the biggest prize of course California, 475 Democratic delegates. Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders are locked in a tight race, the stakes are high, John King here breaking down "By the Numbers" at the wall.
So let's take a look at California, what does it look like?
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: If you look at the Democratic race right now, if you're Bernie Sanders you're encouraged by this in some ways Anderson, but I get to the reasons why not so much in a minute. But look at this, brand new poll out today, statewide survey, among likely Democratic voters essentially that he, 46percent for Secretary Clinton, 44percent for Senator Sanders.
Now some other polls do have her further a bit further ahead than that. But if you look at this, and you're Bernie Sanders, you're talking all right I have momentum right now, I have a chance to win in California. Why is this happening? We have a gender split, then and for Senator Sanders, women by a little bit bigger margin for Secretary Clinton, and fascinating we've seen this throughout the Democratic primaries, this age thing. Younger voters overwhelmingly -- overwhelmingly for Senator Sanders and older voters by a healthy margin for Secretary Clinton.
So, you have an age dynamic, you have a man woman dynamic. At the moment, Senator Sanders is in contention that is that he at these polls to believe. The question is if even if he wins a 50 percent, is that enough, but his main thing is he wants to end with a big winning at California for momentum at the convention and he hopes for the miracle of coming win.
[20:35:10] COOPER: But when Clinton said on CNN today that her delegate lead is insurmountable, I mean can she really afford to lose California?
KING: Can she, yes, but it's the point, because let's go back in time, and look at this. If you look to another state that she won in 2008 in the end, when she had momentum at the end, like Senator Sanders is trying to get now against Senator Obama, so it's embarrassing to lose a state that you won before. Number one, and so what does she try to do about it.
But this part is interesting, she -- we're back on the year, the Clinton campaign went back on the year in California this week. Senator Sanders just spent $1.5 million out there, Secretary Clinton now approaching $1 million. This looks like a lot of money. In California, this is actually peanuts, because you have so many media markets, if you're running a big statewide ad campaign in California costs about more this. But keep an eye on this, Anderson, remember this, we got 10 days to get to there ...
KING: ... to the California primary. Let's see how much more she spends up there to your point, can't she afford to lose it, yes. But does she want to lose it for point of pride heading, point of ownership heading into the convention, absolutely not.
COOPER: If Sanders, I mean I think I know the answer, but if Sanders wins in California, can he actually catch her?
KING: That's -- he needs 70 percent of the remaining delegates. Let switch maps and look at his, he needs 70 percent of remaining delegates. So, is it conceivable Bernie Sanders for example can win Montana, this gives it to him, 55, 45. Is possibly he could win Montana with 70 percent? Maybe.
Could he win in Dakota with 70 percent, maybe? Even he does that though Anderson, you know, let's make him first, and her second, here we go. You know, he's moving in here. But in New Jersey Secretary Clinton is favored, that's one of the big contest -- it's New Jersey and California that have a big basket of delegates. But even if again she's leading in there, if Sanders wins there then you come out New Mexico, Latino vote, Hillary Clinton think she's going to win, I'm going to give to Bernie Sanders.
Now, if this happens, the jitters in the Democratic Party will be that she's losing but the math in the nomination race will be that she still ahead, even if he wins by the margin that poll, let say wins by a couple of points, he comes back and gets her. Even if he wins 55, 45, all of the remaining states he doesn't catch up.
So what is this about? Can Bernie Sanders win California with 70 percent? I think not. But he wants to win by his big a margin as possible, he has the dream of a miracle come back but most of all it's about getting in this contest as many delegates as you can so that when gets to the convention in Philadelphia has more leverage, but he wants to hold out hope that the math is possible but it's a miracle.
COOPER: All right, John King, John thanks very much.
Just ahead, is Hillary Clinton changing her play book, maybe and borrowing a page from Donald Trump. They sort of some sharp jabs today, lot more in that.
[20:41:28] COOPER: As we've been talking about, a milestone day for Donald Trump after reaching the magic number of delegates, clinching his party's nomination, he spend the day celebrating reminding everyone how he is to five predictions which is certainly the case, well taking some swings at Democratic frontrunner Hillary Clinton.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We were supposed to be going into July and that a lot of people said it wouldn't even be solved doing that convention, there're going to be a new convention in August. And here I am watching Hillary fight and she can't close the deal, and that should be such an easy deal to close, but she's unable to close the deal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Secretary Clinton spend today firing back at him, here's what she said on CNN.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CLINTON: Donald Trump says outrageous things all the time, but today, he officially clinched the Republican nomination, so this is now as real as it gets and this man who is an unqualified loose cannon is within reach of the most important job in the world.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
COOPER: Back with the panel, also joining us CNN political commentator and talk radio host Bill Press who supports Bernie Sanders. It's interesting, Bill, to hear Secretary Clinton calling in which is -- I'm that's taking a play -- a page from Donald Trump's play book, she started doing it a couple months ago, I think she called in CNN, that was the first time that I knew she'd done it, and then she has done it subsequently. But it's a smart move for her?
BILL PRESS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think is only fair if Donald Trump gets to call in ...
COOPER: Well, no doubt about it, but ...
PRESS: Hillary Clinton.
COOPER: I don't think in the past though wasn't a question of like CNN not wanting her to call in, it was her not calling in.
PRESS: Yeah -- no. I think it shows that they' really taking Trump -- that Donald Trump seriously, and they're going all out and she's going to be doing a lot more interviews, a lot more free media. I doubt no matter how hard she tries she'll be able to keep up but Donald Trump on free media, but that clearly is a new direction I believed for the Clinton campaign.
COOPER: Maria, I mean as a Clinton supporters, do you like seeing that?
MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I loved that, Anderson when I saw that today, I have been a huge fan of the strategy of let's just unleash her. I think when she is doing this interviews, people really see her for who she is and, you know, the criticisms that she's been so careful, that she seems inauthentic, and so cautious, I think today you are going seeing -- I knew you have -- your seeing the new sort of page in the strategy of just getting out ...
COOPER: The danger of that though is, I mean things she said which turn out not to be the case. When she said today, that she knew past secretaries of state and used, you know, personal e-mail, maybe that's true, but, you know, still in this report she didn't seek permission, she though -- well she says she thought it was allowed, and also passing though her state didn't use personal e-mail exclusively.
CARDONA: Sure, and I think the most important thing she said today about the IG report, she apologized right, she apologized for having set up this private server, she apologized for it, said it was a mistake. I think the American people are forgiving. She also put it in context, she did say predecessors did use it as well. She said that the regulations were nebulous at best. This was a procedural ...
COOPER: Right, but -- I mean for David she's also ...
CARDONA: Not about national security.
COOPER: In the past said that she had done everything possible to cooperate ...
COOPER: ... this report point blank she didn't. She in fact refused to cooperate, she refused to be interviewed as did members of her staff.
CHALIAN: Right, her campaign says just because they're waiting for the FBI investigation ...
CARDONA: That's right.
CHALIAN: ... they're going to cooperate there, but I do think she what she didn't confronting together about this IG report came out is, she clearly said many times over the course of the last year that she did nothing wrong and everything was above board. This IG report it just negates that. It says that is not the case.
[20:45:01] This is the other point about today, and why she strategically perhaps called in just from an analysis point of view, she is been making her entire campaign of late, Anderson, about defeating Donald Trump. Gone -- I mean she talks about of some of gun is driving the message of the day about what her issues and what she's campaigning on and it is all about driving a media message about her trying to take down Donald Trump and A, obviously you want to do that to define your opponent in general election. But B, I think it -- she thinks it distracts from the e-mail issue.
COOPER: You know, its interesting Andre, Secretary Clinton said she -- I want to get right, she said that the idea of Trump and Sanders debating is not a quote, "serious discussion".
The idea of Trump debating Sanders, I mean he has it seems and perhaps smartly been tried to reach out to potential Bernie Sanders supporters who have Sanders and no one agree who might go to Trump. If he actually debated Sanders, wouldn't that negate some of that?
BAUER: It would be great, because you don't take the hard shadow in him. You play nice to this with him, you go in a debate with him, you're ...
COOPER: You don't think Donald Trump would take a hard shot ... BAUER: I don't know that it would not ...
BAUER: He knows he's not going to be his opponent. So go in there and be, you know, respectful of your opponent and you may pick up some of his voters in the process.
RYE: Either which of the debates did you watch?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Listen, I think that's why you should be the nominee, because you would handle it that way. You know, the problem with Donald Trump is he has irresistible impulses that he can't resist, like attacking Susana Martinez. But what is so mind boggling to many of us, you know, who spent the '90s trying to beat the Clintons when Donald Trump was defending the Clintons, and the idea that this race is going to be a sort of a reunion of Donald Trump's last wedding where Hillary Clinton went to it.
And you have two ultra wealthy New Yorkers running against each other, it is absolutely mind boggling that there's not going to be a strong conservative choice out there articulating what the differences have been between the Republican Party and Democratic Party.
COOPER: And Angela, how weakened do you think -- and we're talking there's to John King, is Secretary Clinton if Bernie Sanders wins California?
RYE: I don't think much. I think the reality of this is the numbers are still very much on her side, I think it is more than an uphill battle for Bernie Sanders, but the longer that he stays in, the better that he does, the more leverage he has when it comes convention time. He already had I would say a marginal win with the platform committee, and being able to ensure that he has representatives there. He also has supporters who didn't count against his numbers who will also be part of the platform committee. I think all of that is very positive.
Going back to this debate really quick though, people are blowing this off all day, and I don't know if folks missed Donald Trump's press conference were he said, oh, you know, maybe for $10 million, this could be like a pay-per view thing, Anderson. I think Andre watched your town hall though, because Donald Trump was very nice on your town halls, but he's not been so nice in the debates.
COOPER: Very quickly.
PRES: Real quick. I just want to weigh on the California primary. I disagree a little bit. I don't think Hillary can afford to lose California. The superdelegates ...
RYE: Oh I don't think so.
PRESS: ... if all of this stuff is going on and on top of that he wins California, I think superdelegates, John used the word jitters. They're going to get nervous. They're going to get ...
COOPER: All right.
COOPER: I want to thank everyone in the panel.
Coming up, a new episode of the CNN Original Series, The Eighties, we should be doing the '90s, because this election seems to be taking us back. This week we're looking at '80s music, thank goodness, KISS' Gene Simmons, joins us next.
[20:52:25] COOPER: In just a few minutes, a new episode of CNN Original Series The Eighties will air, and this a good one old of the music, remember were you where the first time you heard the song from the '80s, an oldies station, not -- that was not a fun day for me.
But it was undeniably a golden era, from Michael Jackson, Whitney Houston, and Prince all in their prime to huge bands, the first to seen Duran Duran, U2, Guns N' Roses to name just a few. One of the biggest bands of the decade and frankly decade before and nearly every decade since, KISS.
Co-founder and bass player Gene Simmons joins me now. It's great to have you back on the program. So let's talk about the '80s, because you decide in the '80s to remove the makeup that the band has traditionally worn, which was a huge deal. I know you said at the time that it felt good. Were you nervous at all, were you worried how your fans would react?
GENE SIMMONS, CO-FOUNDER AND FRONTMAN OF KISS: Oh I was scared to death. I mean, we started off defying the odds. We decided to put together the band, we never saw on stage. We were four knuckle heads off the streets of New York who didn't have a clue what marketing was, what it all meant and all that, we just had this kind of bizarre notion. And on day one, we put on the makeup that, you know, would become our trademark. And here we are 42 years later, America's number one American gold record award winning group of all time. But during the '80s, you know, it was a period of flux, nobody really know what was going on. More and more bands that played guitar became sort of heavy metal big hair bands, the Bon Jovi's and so on.
And, you know, in my opinion fluff and sugar coating took the place of danger and in my opinion rock lost its soul.
COOPER: When you hear the term, I mean remember all my friends being in the KISS army. I was not cool enough I think to be drafted into the KISS army unfortunately, but when you hear the term '80s music, what is that -- what does it mean to you, what do you think about when you hear that term?
SIMMONS: Flux. It was a time when lots of things were going on at the same place. The most important thing that came out in the '80s for me, yes I know Madonna was there, and Duran Duran, that they were popular band, and Madonna continues today and God bless her, but Prince was an anomaly, not since Jimi Hendrix had I ever witnessed anything that an artist that had the stage craft and the ability to combine blues, soul, rock.
If Prince was only a guitar player, lead guitar player in the band, everybody would say who's that kid, that guy's got the goods. And so he was a multi hyphenate, multi instrumentalist, wrote his own stuff, did the whole thing.
[20:55:04] Out of the '80s, rap, hip-hop became the big musical genre that continues today, but it was Prince himself as the stand-alone musical person that defied all the definitions of what you were supposed to be. There rock acts over here rock acts over there, and Prince just kind of rode above all that stuff. An anomaly.
COOPER: Yeah, and still hard to believe he is gone, David Bowie, so many people we have lost, so many incredibly talented singers, musicians. Gene Simmons, it's great to talk to you always. Thank you so much, appreciate it.
SIMMONS: Duck face.
COOPER: Thanks. The CNN Original Series, The Eighties, airs in just a few minutes at the top of the hour. Rock on.
But after the break, Ken Starr who investigated Bill Clinton in the '90s have been under investigation himself because how he handled a sexual assault scandal involving football players as the university president, we brought the story last night, now the school, they're taking action. Details, next.
COOPER: Ken Starr, the independent council who spearheaded the investigation of President Clinton after the Monica Lewinsky sex scandal has been out at as president of Baylor University, as the school deals with his own scandal. The university is under fire for failing to respond adequately to allegations of students being sexually assaulted some cases by the school's football players.
Starr is out as president, he will now be the chancellor and will still teach at the law school. The board also suspended the football coach and says it plan to fire him.
[21:00:07] That does it for us, thanks for watching. The CNN Original Series, The Eighties, starts now.