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Trump Holds Fund-Raiser With Republican National Committee; Bill Cosby to Stand Trial. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired May 24, 2016 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[15:00:26]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Here we go, just past the top of the hour. I'm Brooke Baldwin. You're watching CNN.

We begin with the shocking news about/comedian Bill Cosby. A judge today ruled that he will, in fact, stand trial on criminal sexual assault charges. The 78-year-old faces three felony counts of indecent assault from a case from 2004 involving former Temple University basketball coach Andrea Constand. She was the very first woman to come forward publicly with allegations of sexual assault against Mr. Cosby.

During the proceedings today in this Pennsylvania courtroom, Cosby's attorney literally yelled at the judge in closing arguments, from our correspondent in the courtroom. She described him as yelling -- quote -- "No one should be brought to an American courtroom to undergo this" -- end quote.

And this reaction outside of the courtroom from a Cosby attorney who said -- quote -- "What was presented today was evidence of nothing."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIAN MCMONAGLE, ATTORNEY FOR BILL COSBY: They had 12 years to bring an accuser to confront Mr. Cosby. They chose not to. And the evidence is telling in this case as to why they chose not to bring this complainant, because their evidence determined back when the investigation unfolded proved that there was no crime committed here, that there was no evidence of a crime here, and that the inconsistencies that plagued this investigation from the beginning continue to plague it now.

This case should end immediately.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Well, let's go to Jean Casarez, who was in that courtroom, saw it all, beginning with, Jean, talk to me about the screaming in closing from the defense attorney. Why?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The passion with the defense that resulted in -- you're exactly right -- in the closing argument screaming. He was face to the judge. He was screaming to the judge, but not

specifically at the judge, but at the issues, the fact that they believe this was consensual contact between Bill Cosby and Andrea Constand some 12 years ago, and because of that, there was no probable cause that any crime at all had been committed.

But the prosecution really had three elements to show today, that there was probable cause. That's a very low standard. Number one, that there was not consent by Andrea Constand, number two, that she was unconscious or unaware, not able to stop what was happening to her, and that the defendant, Bill Cosby, impaired her.

Well, the prosecution put on a detective on the stand, and the defense was very upset about that. They wanted Andrea Constand on the stand. They wanted to question her to look at her demeanor, because they believed that helped their case as far as consent. But the prosecution didn't have to do that and they did not subject Andrea Constand to that.

The detective testified as to Andrea Constand's statement, literally reading it in a Q&A fashion, question and answer, with the prosecutor saying a question, the detective saying Andrea Constand's response. And it was basically the January, February of 2004. That's 12 years ago that Bill Cosby invited her to his house. He was her mentor, in her words.

When she got there, she told him she was very upset, couldn't sleep at night because of a career change. He went upstairs. He said, I have something that will make you feel better. He brought down three blue pills. She said, what are these? He said, they're herbal. They will help you relax, take the edge off.

So she took them, and then he had her drink some wine. She said they continued to talk for about 20 minutes, but all of a sudden everything changed and she was really scared, she wrote in the statement, that her vision was blurry, her legs were rubbery, she couldn't walk, she couldn't really talk.

[15:05:11]

But she signaled to him she needed to sit on the couch, so she laid on the couch. She remembered then in and out of consciousness Bill Cosby coming up from behind her, and she could tell that he was undressing her. He could tell -- she could tell that he was touching her, she said.

And she could tell he moved her hand to touch him. She fell asleep. The next morning, she woke up. Bill Cosby came downstairs in his bathrobe, and she wrote in her statement he gave her some tea and a muffin and she left.

The defense absolutely crucified that statement by showing all of the different places where she crossed out and how Bill Cosby in his statement said many of the same things, except no alcohol, sexual contact, but it was consensual. They also talked about that she had been to Bill Cosby's home several

times before this happened. She had gone to Foxwoods Casino when he was performing, went into his bedroom with him. She had written down they laid on the bed. So, the defense really tried to, as we say in legal terminology, dirty up the victim in this preliminary hearing.

But the fact is, the credibility of the witness doesn't matter. And the judge said this case moves on now to trial.

BALDWIN: Jean Casarez with the perfect setup, thank you so much of explaining what happened there.

Let me bring in our legal panel here. I have Joey Jackson and Laura Coates, Joey Jackson, CNN legal analyst, criminal defense attorney, Laura Coates, former federal prosecutor.

So let's get to it here. Obviously, the crux of this case is consent.

But, Joey, to you, turning to you, from a defense perspective, they said, listen, she came to his home or hung out with him prior to this event. She came afterwards. She could have said no prior to being offered those pills. To the point of consent.

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Here's the issue.

Now, let's make no mistake about it. What the defense was doing in that courtroom was speaking to a jury. I get the fact that there was no jury.

BALDWIN: On the yelling.

JACKSON: Absolutely.

BALDWIN: Yes.

JACKSON: There's no jury in the courtroom.

BALDWIN: I was going to go there next.

JACKSON: It's a matter before the judge. The judge is deciding one thing. Is there reasonable cause to believe that a crime occurred and did he commit that crime? OK?

That's the standard. In terms of going after the credibility and saying she came before and she came after and they were friends, et cetera, that's for a jury pool for another day. Let's be clear about something. These preliminary hearings 99 percent of the time move forward into trial. The defense had no illusion stepping into that courtroom that the judge would say, really, she did that? The case is dismissed.

Those are factual questions that a jury will ultimately decide. It's not the judge's job to decide factually. The judge's job is to establish whether there is some cause to believe a crime occurred, not by a reasonable doubt, beyond a reasonable doubt, but by preponderance of the evidence. Is it a little bit more likely than not? And so the defense, Brooke,

was serving notice upon the world, serving notice upon any jury that they're going to contest this vigorously and that it was a matter of consent.

Last point, and that's this. The bigger problem the defense has here is that, A, Cosby admitted to much of this. He was interviewed by the police back in 2005.

BALDWIN: Yes, yes.

JACKSON: And essentially admitted to everything, except the consent issue, which leads me to point number two.

Consent is very difficult, because we're not only talking about, did she say yes, did she say yes no, but you have the added element...

BALDWIN: Incapacitated?

JACKSON: ... of incapacitation.

There was some substance involved. Was it Benadryl? Was it an herbal substance? Was it a prescription medication, as he allegedly, that is Bill Cosby, told Constand's mother when she called, saying, what did you do my daughter?

That's at issue. So, whenever you introduce drugs into the element -- and Jean Casarez laid out the three issues here in terms of the three counts. One, you didn't consent. Number two, you were unconscious. Number three, you drugged her and made her unconscious. Those are the elements here. So, that defense team was really talking to that jury that's going to be impaneled.

BALDWIN: Strategy, Laura, to you. Feel free to jump in on what Joey was saying and you two would agree with -- I was talking to Paul Callan last hour.

Normally, you save the drama and theatrics for the trial, but absolutely that he was speaking to a potential jury pool. By the way, Laura, who will they find an unbiased jury pool? So many people in this country have seen all the articles about the different stories of these different, you know, accusers, know him as Cliff, the beloved Cliff Huxtable. We all grew up with him. How do they seat a jury?

LAURA COATES, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Well, that is the question in everyone's mind.

But really this case comes down to the court of public opinion vs. the court of law. It the court of public opinion, he's already been tried and convicted. You have got 19 different cities, 11 states, 58 women claiming this is a pattern.

But he still has to prove in this case that this happened. If I'm the prosecutor in this case -- I used to specialize in delayed rape reporting cases -- my biggest hurdle in my cases always turned on whether I could bring in the testimony of other accusers. [15:10:08]

Yes.

COATES: Whether I could establish, was this a pattern? Was it an anomaly? And I think that all of the breadth of evidence that could come in through the other accusers could really solidify this case for the prosecution.

But they have got to get that in first, Brooke. And that's a very steep hurdle for them to actually overcome.

BALDWIN: So, to that point, Joey Jackson, and I was talking to Gloria Allred last hour, who represents one of the alleged victims involved in a lawsuit here. She was saying to me, ultimately, it is up to the judge, right, to determine...

JACKSON: Yes, it is.

BALDWIN: ... whether or not these other accusers could testify in trial, and if so, from the prosecutorial perspective, you could point out a pattern, a modus operandi, right, that the -- Cosby, the pills, to then prove...

JACKSON: Yes. Yes.

See, now, this is huge. And Laura's right on point here in terms of how she prosecuted successfully these cases in the past.

BALDWIN: Yes.

JACKSON: But there's a big issue here. Now, the law says that you could introduce such evidence if it goes to motive, if it goes intent, if it goes part of a common plan or scheme. You could theoretically.

The big issue, though, is, although you could, does it so overwhelmingly prejudice the defendant that we're not here, Brooke, talking about what he may or may not have done to Andrea Constand. We're talking about the fact that, you know what, Brooke, he did something last week, the week before, the month before, the year before.

All of this sounds the same. So, if he did that, he did this. That would be what is called propensity evidence. And introducing evidence to establish that you have a propensity to do something before so you did it now is problematic.

So, if there's a conviction here, big if, long way from that, but it's ripe for an appealable issue. So I'm one that believes -- I get there's 50 women out there, but the judge is going to have to limit very, very carefully what that judge allows these other women to come in and say if the judge allows any other women to come in at all.

But in the event the judge does that, it's damming evidence, because a jury is going to be looking and saying, really, he did that, he did that? It's all the same. Of course he did this here. COATES: Yes. You know, Joey...

BALDWIN: Quickly, quickly, Laura.

(CROSSTALK)

COATES: Yes. And one point is that, in terms of damning evidence, the deposition everyone was mentioning, making a much ado about, the evidence he gives in deposition testimony may or may not necessarily come in.

And if it does, not just the portions that hurt Bill Cosby can come in, but all of it, all of his overwhelming denials, all the other evidence comes in. This is not a slam-dunk case for the prosecution, even though they were able to make enough evidence now to overcome the probable cause standard. They have still got a long way to go to prove ultimate guilt.

BALDWIN: The first trial here, we will be all over it. The world will be watching.

Laura Coates and Joey Jackson, thank you so much.

COATES: Thank you.

JACKSON: Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, after long touting his self-funded primary campaign, hours from now, Donald Trump will hold his first joint fund- raiser with the Republican National Committee, and the entry fee, pretty pricey. We will talk about that.

Plus, Hillary Clinton ignores Trump's personal attacks, unleashes a new attack ad of her own. We will dig into her claims about Trump's record on the housing crisis.

You're watching CNN.

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[15:17:00]

BALDWIN: Just about a year ago, Donald Trump told the world he wanted to be president, and tonight he will experience a first-of-its-kind kind of campaign event, a fund-raiser with the RNC, the Republican National Committee, to raise money for his big general election bid.

So, let's go to our senior White House correspondent, Jim Acosta, who is covering the Trump rally, the fund-raiser for us in Albuquerque, New Mexico.

Jim Acosta, talk to me about this reception. And what is the price tag of entry?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Brooke. And I think it's notable to point out that Donald Trump throughout the

course of the primary part of this campaign has said, you know, he's a self-funded candidate, that the donors, the contributors, they don't own him, they don't control his agenda. And all of that has changed, at least to the effect that he's going to start holding fund-raising events, like he's going to have later on this evening in Albuquerque.

It's going to take place about an hour before this rally that is going to happen inside this big convention hall, where I'm standing right now. It's hosted by a local businessman; $10,000 per person to get in gets you a chance to mingle with the other, you know, movers and shakers here, as well as a photo opportunity with Donald Trump.

And, you know, one thing we should point out, Brooke, in addition to that, he is going to have this rally later on this evening, but just to show you how much of a tough time Donald Trump has had lately getting this GOP behind him, Susana Martinez, the governor of New Mexico, the highest-ranking Republican in this state, the head of the Republican Governors Association, she told reporters here in Albuquerque yesterday, Brooke, that she is too busy to attend this rally.

So she is not going to be at this event tonight. And, you know, keep in mind, Governor Martinez is somebody that's been talked about as a vice presidential candidate for Donald Trump. She said she's not interested in that job. And she's been pretty critical of his immigration rhetoric in the past.

So some interesting developments, in that he is holding a fund-raiser here, the first of his campaign, the first that is being held in connection with the RNC. They have this new joint fund-raising agreement. They hope to raise a billion dollars for this general election campaign against Hillary Clinton.

But at the same time, he's having to mend fences inside the Republican Party and we are seeing an example of that here in New Mexico with the governor of this state, a very high-profile Republican in this party, saying, no, I don't want to be at this event later on tonight.

She told reporters here in New Mexico yesterday, "I'm busy being he governor of New Mexico," not very specific as to why she's not going to be here tonight, Brooke.

BALDWIN: OK. Thanks for the note on Susana Martinez and the self- funder becoming the funder. Jim Acosta teeing up the Trump rally later this evening, thank you, sir.

You know, as Trump is building up on his campaign cash, he is attacking Hillary Clinton. He is getting -- it's getting nasty.

In fact, both he and Hillary Clinton resurrecting attacks of the past here, Clinton bringing up Trump's comments from 10 years ago, which I will play for you in just a moment, and Trump has this new Instagram video that revives the decades-old sex allegations against not Hillary Clinton, against her husband.

[15:20:05]

That contradicts what Trump said back in the day when he was actually defending the former president, Bill Clinton.

Chris Cuomo on "NEW DAY" today brought up that point and so much more with Michael Cohen, Trump's attorney.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL COHEN, SPECIAL COUNSEL TO DONALD TRUMP: He is giving the facts.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: No, no, no.

COHEN: He is giving the facts.

CUOMO: But he knew the facts then in the '90s when this was all happening.

(CROSSTALK)

COHEN: He was a private citizen who was friendly with the Clintons, and he was trying to protect a friend, all right? Now, it's a different game. It's 2016.

CUOMO: So he was lying, then?

COHEN: It's not lying. He was protecting a friend. There's a difference.

CUOMO: What is the difference?

COHEN: The difference is, he was being a true friend. It didn't matter to him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let me turn to CNN political commentator Van Jones, who used to be an official in the Obama administration, and Republican pollster Kellyanne Conway, who is a Trump supporter.

So, welcome to both of you.

Kellyanne, let me begin with you. There was something that caught my eye actually reading about "The Post" and these different types of attacks, right? And so in "The Post," they wrote: "The race already appears to be teed up on a referendum on the two candidates' pasts, rather than their visions for the country's future."

Do you agree? Both guilty there?

KELLYANNE CONWAY, PRESIDENT & CEO, THE POLLING COMPANY: I do in part. But part of it is because Hillary Clinton a few months ago tried to raise Donald Trump's past. So I think he retaliated in kind by bringing up the '80s and '90s on them. But, look, voters do want to talk about the issues and I know the

issues will come up. But what has happened in the last day or so or really week or so is that Donald Trump continues the gobble up news cycle after news cycle after news cycle. I would imagine Hillary Clinton would love to be campaigning, but she seems to be doing a lot of explaining instead of that.

And I frankly think the voters want to hear about issues, but they also are unfamiliar with many of the details of the Clinton administration. And the fact that it's being covered daily means that there must be news value in it.

BALDWIN: Well, Hillary Clinton is still fighting. She's still fighting the primary fight against Bernie Sanders.

CONWAY: Yes.

BALDWIN: Donald Trump is this close to clinching.

CONWAY: That's right.

BALDWIN: But, Van, but, Van, listen, they're each different kinds of character attacks.

Hillary Clinton, let me just play this quickly. And then I want to talk to you. Hillary Clinton resurrecting a strategy from 2012, successfully portraying Mitt Romney as a disconnected businessman. She tweeted out audio. This is Trump's own words here. This is from 2006, saying it shows how he rooted for the recession in 2008. Here's the clip.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I sort of hope that happens, because then people like me would go in and buy. If there is a bubble burst, as they call it, you know, you can make a lot of money.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BALDWIN: What do you think, Van, of that tactic? Will it stick? Thoughts?

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I mean, first of all, Hillary Clinton has to make her case. She's got to put some bricks in the wall here.

I think that's very effective, because you basically want the president to be somebody who is on your side. You don't want him cheerleading for your downfall. You don't want him cheerleading for your 501(k) to go bust or for your housing situation to go bad.

He sounds terrible. He doesn't sound good. He sounds terrible talking like that. What is Hillary Clinton trying to do here? She's trying to counter a strategy where her opponents have been able to pound in certain pillars that you can just sort of refer to now in shorthand, whether it's Benghazi, that's a pillar, e-mail, that's a pillar.

And so when you have those pillars pounded in against you, your opponent can do a lot of work on you. Right now, nobody has been able to pound in those pillars against Donald Trump to then build your argument.

So, she has got to spend the summer saying, listen, remember what he said about housing. OK? Remember what he said about women. A brick is not a wall. It is not enough to stop him, but she's building a wall. She is building her case, so in the fall, she will have those touch points. She's trying to make this be one of those touch points.

BALDWIN: And on the -- on these continuous attacks from the Trump team, Kellyanne, to you, when you look back in the '90s, you know, after, you know, things happened, Bill Clinton's popularity went up and really more importantly is this is now about Hillary Clinton, you know, people rallied around her.

They were sympathetic to her. Wouldn't -- might this attack, repeated this attack backfire on the Trump camp?

CONWAY: No, because very few people see Hillary Clinton as either a survivor or a victim.

And America tends to cheer for either one. She has not cast herself as either. I think she has engendered very little sympathy in this campaign. Her treatment of Bernie Sanders and his millions of voters is disgraceful and it continues as we speak today, Brooke.

She just -- she calls herself the nominee to CNN's Chris Cuomo. She has got Debbie Wasserman Schultz and the whole DNC. She has got all the king's horses, all the king's men, and she just can't get it done.

And let me make very clear. Hillary Clinton just can't get it done in her own Democratic primary, where she's got a majority of voters as female. This is not the vast right-wing conspiracy trying to tear her down.

[15:25:10]

She can't get it done within her own primary system, again, among female voters. Look, Bill Clinton was popular as president.

(CROSSTALK)

CONWAY: And he was already there when the Monica Lewinsky affair was revealed and when he lied under oath to Congress, to -- when he lied under oath.

That -- he was already president. The economy was doing well. She is not the president. And I think people already -- some of this is baked in the cake for some people.

BALDWIN: But she's running for president now.

(CROSSTALK) CONWAY: But why isn't she at 55 percent or 57 percent if people actually...

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Van, jump in. I want you to please jump in.

JONES: Yes, look, I -- well, first of all, is this stuff likely to backfire? Yes, with lot of people, it is already backfiring.

And, also, let's not forget, at some point, what is Trump doing talking about anybody's sex life? What's his campaign slogan when it comes to family values? I like my third wife so much, I don't have to cheat on this one?

Listen...

(CROSSTALK)

CONWAY: Come on, Van. That's -- "The New York Times" tried that and got their hat handed to them.

JONES: No, no, well, they got their hats to them because they weren't right on the facts, but the facts are..

(CROSSTALK)

CONWAY: Well, they rushed through.

JONES: This guy -- hold on a second. I didn't interrupt you at all.

So, you Trump people have got to learn how to have some manners here. I didn't interrupt you one time. So, here's the deal.

You have a situation where you have a candidate in Donald Trump who wants to bring up other people's sex lives, as if he is some kind of saint. This guy is not a saint. The reality is, a lot of people are already frustrated and angry about him trying to make hay about someone else.

You know how to hard it is to stay married in America?

CONWAY: And yet they're tied in the polls

(CROSSTALK)

JONES: Hold on a second.

Do you know how to hard it is to stay married in America? A lot of people are proud of the Clintons for being able to stick it out. Donald Trump wasn't able to stick it out. So, if you guys want to do this type of stuff, we're going to be -- it's going to be a long six months.

CONWAY: No, but, Van, let's be fair here.

BALDWIN: Quickly. Quickly, Kellyanne.

CONWAY: There a big difference between having an affair with a White House intern who's a teenager and then marrying three women. You're not being fair here. He paid Paula Jones $850,000.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: OK, OK, OK.

(CROSSTALK)

CONWAY: ... sexually harass someone.

(CROSSTALK)

CONWAY: ... pay them $850,000.

BALDWIN: We are not airing all this dead -- all this dirty laundry here. I just can't believe we're going there. And it's May. And there are five months to go.

I think it's going to get really nasty before it's all said and done.

Van Jones Van and Kellyanne Conway, from both camps, important to hear both voices. I appreciate you both very much. To be continued.

CONWAY: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, Virginia's governor under investigation for campaign contributions. Hear how Terry McAuliffe responded in his first public comments since the news broke right here on CNN.

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