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U.S. Navy SEAL Killed in ISIS Assault in Iraq; Cruz Calls Trump Narcissist, Pathological Liar; Obama Reflects on Decision to Order Bin Laden Raid. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired May 3, 2016 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[13:30:00] LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: These are White SEALs. These are individuals much like the Army Green Berets. They have the same thing in the force and they were in a town called Taleska (ph). It's a beautiful little Christian town that ISIS took over in august of 2014 and would anticipate what you're seeing is the attempts to take those cities that are circled in Mosul and continuing to conduct a movement where they're besieging Mosul and cut off from all ISIS reinforce their soldiers. This is one of the many towns that are right on the border between the Kurdish area and the Peshmerga try to conduct further operations into Mosul and trying to attack in the major city.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: The number of U.S. troops on the ground in Iraq has clearly risen. It's been 4,000, 5,000. It sounds, and if you take a look at where it was a couple of years ago, it looks like mission creep is beginning to develop in Iraq. What do you think?

HERTLING: I don't believe that, Wolf. And I wouldn't call it that. There are certainly some increases in forces. It's all been under the advisement of the secretary of defense and the combat and commander saying we need more Special Operators to conduct the advise-and- assist, but we need more Special Operation forces to conduct the counterterrorism mission. And certainly, we have a number, a set number, about 3,000. But there are additional forces going in there to conduct the advise-and-assist missions at the lower level but still doing the same mission. There are no additional missions handed to the individuals but as we go lower in the fore structure, we see the requirement for more forces to advise-and-assist these units.

BLITZER: Barbara, what are you hearing at the Pentagon? We'll put the chart up on the screen. It's gone from a thousand to 2,000, 3,000, 4,000, and now approaching 5,000. How many more troops would military planners like to insert in Iraq and, for that matter, in Syria?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, on the Iraq side of the border, what you're looking at is about another 200 military trainers going in. And on the Syrian side, about 250 or so that will engage in this advise-and-assist role. They're also trying to get the NATO allies to offer more as well. That is happening, but going very slowly.

The real question is, on the Iraq side, can you get Iraqi forces and Kurdish forces really able to retake Mosul, Iraq's second-largest city? On the Syrian side, the only people you can really work with are militias and Kurdish fighters? Are they going to be able to retake Raqqa and get it out of ISIS hands? That's the goal on the battlefield right now. It remains a very distant goal right now -- Wolf?

BLITZER: General Hertling, you saw what happened over the weekend. Hundreds, if not a few thousand Shiite protesters storm the so-called Green Zone in Baghdad. They stormed the Iraqi parliament, took over. These are supporters of the powerful cleric, Mutqa al Sadr (ph), and they left on their own, but they could go back anytime. This is where the U.S. embassy has its diplomats. It's supposed to be a secure area. It's pretty alarming when you see what's going on inside the Iraqi capitol right now.

HERTLING: It is, Wolf. It's extremely disturbing. And Mutqa al Sadr (ph) has interfered with the Iraqi government march forward on several occasions in the past. What's interesting though is I wouldn't lump them all into Shia militia. This is Sadr's group and they are countering some of the other Shia militias that have more intense ties with Iran. They are pushing Prime Minister al Abadi to move faster. Al Abadi has some plans. It's not moving fast enough for Mutqa al Sadr (ph). What is most interesting about what happened this weekend is, on Sunday, he told him to leave, and they did. This is not normal for Sadr's militia. They normally stay and conduct a lot of operations and cause a lot of problems. But on Sunday, they left. Sadr warned the government, though, get these parliamentarians replaced who are crocked and corrupt or I'll be back on Wednesday after the feast is over. That ends tomorrow. We'll see what happens. I think we got to watch Baghdad tomorrow -- Wolf?

BLITZER: Baghdad is in trouble right now, as we heard the other day from the State Department spokesman.

Guys, thanks very much, General Hertling, Barbara Starr. We'll stay on top of this story for sure.

Coming up, Ted Cruz berating Donald Trump, calling him amoral, a pathological liar, a narcissist, while pleading to Indiana voters to come out and support him. Will it help or hurt his campaign?

And why is the state of Indiana so pivotal right now for the Republican candidates? We'll discuss when we come back.

These are live pictures. People are voting in Indianapolis.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:39:06] BLITZER: Back to politics on this primary day in Indiana.

Here with us, our CNN Politic executive editor, Mark Preston; and CNN political director, David Chalian.

Guys, stakes are enormous, especially on the Republican side. Democratic side less so, because Hillary Clinton has this enormous lead right now. But she sort of seems to be playing expectations games. Today, she may not win tonight her campaign says but even if she loses, not much of a change in the delegate count.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: There's no doubt she's playing the expectations game. In the last hour, she was asked about her feelings about Indiana tonight, and her answer was, it's been a good campaign there, but I'm going to focus on the general election now. She said that. So the expectations game is trying to set it up so all of us don't perceive a loss for her there as actually some offending of where we are on the Democratic race and probably rightfully so.

BLITZER: Mark, let's get to the Republican side. I want to play for you and our viewers what some are calling it a tirade, if you will. Ted Cruz calling Donald Trump a narcissist, a pathological liar, and a whole lot more.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[13:40:11] SEN. TED CRUZ, (R), TEXAS & PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Listen, Donald Trump is a serial philanderer and he boasts about it. This is not a secret. He's proud of being a serial philanderer. I want everyone to think about your teenage kids. The president of the United States talks about how great it is to commit adultery, how proud he is. Describes his battles with venereal disease as his own personal Vietnam.

Donald is a bully. We just visited with fifth graders. Every one of us knew bullies in elementary school. Bullies don't come from strength. Bullies come from weakness. Bullies come from a deep yawning cavern of insecurity. There is a reason Donald builds giant buildings and puts his names on them wherever he goes.

He is lying to his supporters. Donald will betray his supporters on every issue. If you care about immigration, Donald is laughing at you. And he's telling the monied elites, he doesn't believe what he's saying. He's not going to build a wall. That's what he told "The New York Times." He will betray you on every issue across the board.

The man cannot tell the truth, but he combines it with being a narcissist, a narcissist at a level I don't think this country has ever seen. Donald Trump is such a narcissist that Barack Obama looks at him and goes, "Dude, what's your problem?"

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: I think it's fair, Mark, this was the harshest criticism of Donald Trump by Ted Cruz we've heard so far.

MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICS EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR: It is. And, you know, I went through my list of criticisms that one politician could lob at another politician, and I think Ted Cruz got all of them in one sound bite there.

This is an interesting time right now for Ted Cruz. He has to make a decision right now about how he's going to move beyond Indiana if we are to expect him to los tonight. I don't think he's going to get out. He very well could surprise us but he's planting a seed to carry this message to discredit Donald Trump in the remaining contests. CHALIAN: This is the entire theory of the case is that to the

Republican party, anybody open to the message that Donald Trump is a disaster of the Republican party, is who Ted Cruz is talking to right there to try to prevent 1,237. Get some more light, irrespective of the Indiana results, to the Stop Trump movement. I just don't see how it's working. And I think it's inevitable. Although Ted Cruz's entire mindset is going through the calendar all the way through June 7th because he can't hit 1,237 until then. But what is inevitable tonight if he does lose Indiana is that Ted Cruz and his team assess how they move forward because they can't keep doing it and throw anything in with the kitchen sick.

BLITZER: We got a statement from Donald Trump reacting to Ted Cruz's scathing attack. "Ted Cruz is a desperate candidate trying to save his failing campaign. Today's ridiculous outburst only proves what I've been saying for a long time, that Ted Cruz does not have the temperament to be president of the United States."

Donald Trump has been calling Ted Cruz Lyin' Ted for a long time, too.

PRESTON: That's right, and saying nasty things about others. Here's the difference between what we saw from Ted Cruz just there and what we see Donald Trump doing basically every day. His tone, he projects confidence. His cadence, he simplifies his message and unscripted. He appears unscripted. And at this time that we are right now, where people are looking at the economy, and they're frustrated by it, looking at Washington, and think all politicians are crooked, they're looking at foreign policy right now, which they think is in tatters at this point, Donald Trump is appealing to people. And people don't care what Donald Trump says. They just like how he says it.

BLITZER: By all accounts, he'll do well tonight.

CHALIAN: If we are to believe the pre-election polling, he's poised for a big victory. Some polling has it closer I think. But I think it will be a surprise if Donald Trump doesn't emerge with the win tonight.

BLITZER: We'll have extensive live coverage.

Guys, thanks very much, both of you, for being with us.

Coming up, the stakes of Indiana extremely high right now as voters head to the polls. We'll bring you all of our coverage.

Once again, these are live pictures coming in from Terre Haute, Indiana. People are voting.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:48:26] BLITZER: Turn out in the Indiana primary could be a deciding factor today. It's an open primary state, meaning Independent voters get a chance to cast a ballot today as well as declared Democrat and Republicans.

Our national correspondent, Jason Carroll, is in Terre Haute, Indiana, for us right now.

What are you seeing there, Jason?

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: In Vigo County, a popular county, this is what we've been experiencing all day long, long lines at polling stations. We've hopped over at another polling station. Saw the same thing. 500 people or so, so far today to register.

I want to show you two of them. They've been happy to join for the interview. Both on opposite sides of a coin here. We've got a Cruz supporter, a Trump supporter as well.

I'm going to start with you. You decided to vote for Cruz even though he's behind in the polls.

MICHAEL ODOM, INDIANA VOTER: It's our turn in Indiana. Cruz is the last stand. If he loses, I believe he's probably done. We got to win today.

CARROLL: And you were saying Trump, the reasons for you supporting Trump. Believe he's strong on issues like national security and the economy as well.

TAYLOR HITSON, INDIANA VOTER: Yes, sir, I believe we not only need a president but a commander in chief. It's time to make America great again.

CARROLL: I want you to weigh in quickly on the comments from earlier, that Trump made about Ted Cruz's father, the Kennedy assassination. Your thoughts on that?

HITSON: Although he's outspoken, I believe it was a slip of the tongue.

(CROSSTALK)

CARROLL: A slip of the tongue?

HITSON: I do believe that he speaks from the heart. He doesn't have a teleprompter and that's what we need, someone who's honest in the opinions and doesn't speak from a text file that's been written for him.

CARROLL: Your thoughts on this?

ODOM: I think if Donald could take it back he would probably take it back. Like he said, slip of the tongue. It is Election Day. Donald knows it's a big day here in Indiana. If he wins, he has a chance to get to 1,237, so he's trying anything he can to win and probably a smart tactic but maybe a little unethical.

[13:50:26] CARROLL: Michael, Taylor, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

HITSON: Thank you. CARROLL: Wolf, why people pay attention to the particular county, it is a bellwether county. Since 1888, this county has predicted the winning presidential candidate. This is only happened I think twice -- it's only twice since they have been unable to predict the winner here, and every single time going forward they have been able to predict the presidential candidate, and that's why so many people pay attention to Vigo County, why we're paying attention today -- Wolf?

BLITZER: Good record they have over there.

All right. Thanks very much, Jason Carroll, for us.

Coming up, five years after the death of Osama bin Laden, we are learning new details about the intelligence and the decisions that led to the raid of the al Qaeda leader's Pakistan compound. The CNN exclusive story, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:55:28] BLITZER: It's been five years since U.S. SEAL Team Six killed Osama bin Laden in a raid on his compound in Pakistan. Last night, CNN aired a special on the capture of bin Laden, "Take Down of Bin Laden, The Operation Behind It."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The terrorists should know.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you come after the United States --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you do us harm.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will go anywhere.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will spend the rest of eternity hunting you down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: America's doesn't forget.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our reach is long and our memory is long.

HILLARY CLINTON, (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: The United States will not rest.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We'll find you.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We will be patient. We will be dogged.

(CHANTING)

OBAMA: But eventually, justice will be done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: I want to bring in retired Lieutenant Colonel Rick Francona. Colonel, thank you for joining us.

One of the things we learned in the CNN special was President Obama actually wanted to go after bin Laden earlier but was talked out of it by his key advisers. Does it surprise you that he listened to them and was more patient?

LT. COL. RICK FRANCONA, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Not in something of this magnitude. You know, bin Laden was always the symbol of what we had to do. It was essential that the United States get him. And I think the president was well advised to listen to his advisers because they're the ones that had the expertise on what had to be done. There was no way that you could botch this up because you only probably get one shot and I think he was wise to listen to his council.

BLITZER: Our national security analyst, Peter Bergen, sat down with an exclusive interview with President Obama about his decision to go after bin Laden. I want to play part of that conversation. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We had to be resilient and not react in ways that makes the problem worse rather than better. We have to understand that the kinds of Special Forces and intelligence gathering that we saw in the bin Laden raid is going to be, more often than not, the tool of choice for president in dealing with that kind of threat. That sending 100,000 troops to invade every country where an organization like this appears is going to be counterproductive and in some ways feeds the kinds of ideology that we're fighting.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: So, Colonel, what do you make of that assessment a surge of troops isn't necessarily the best way to fight these kinds of wars?

FRANCONA: Well, it depends on what you're trying to accomplish. And we're seeing the president's measured approach in Iraq right now. You know, many of the military advisers are saying we need to put more people in to Iraq and Syria and he's resisting that. He says let's do this with Special Forces, smartly rather than sending in a lot of American troops. Now, I think that's the right thing to do. But I saw your segment earlier with General Hertling talking about mission creep and that's the one thing we have to guard against so I think the president's being wise in his choice of tactics right now.

BLITZER: Some people in the U.S. military would like to see that mission. Right now, close to 5,000 troops on the ground in Iraq up to maybe 10,000. The president so far has resisted that, but he's gone from 1,000 to 5,000.

Let's talk a little bit about what happened. I want to get your sense, a U.S. Navy SEAL killed fighting with Peshmerga Kurdish fighter, about 20 miles outside of Mosul, the town controlled now for two years by ISIS. Are we, unfortunately, going to be seeing more of that?

FRANCONA: I think so. As we get ready for the push on Mosul, the U.S. and the Iraqis have to cut off Mosul. They have to isolate it from Raqqa. Right now, there's a supply line from Syria to Iraq. The Kurds have been very effective of cutting most of that but they have to encircle before they make a move on it, otherwise they'll be battling a tough battle with ISIS.

ISIS has had over a year and a half to defend that city. They have got all of the kill zones laid out and everything, so very, very difficult. And what we are seeing are Kurds and ISIS battling for the control of the suburbs of Mosul. It is very, very important. I think we're seeing the initial movement towards the battle of Mosul but I don't think it's going to happen this year -- Wolf?

BLITZER: Yeah. A lot of people agree with you, Colonel.

Thank you very much.

Rick Francona, our CNN military analyst, joining us.

That's it for me. Thanks very much for watching. I'll be back 5:00 p.m. eastern in "The Situation Room." Our special coverage of the Indiana primary resumes.

For our international viewers, "Amanpour" is next.

For our viewers in North America viewers, NEWSROOM with Brooke Baldwin starts now.