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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES

Clinton And Trump Spar Over Playing The "Woman Card"; Sanders Hints At Possible Shift In Focus; Sanders To Cut "Hundreds" Of Campaign Staff; Threats Made Indiana's GOP Delegates; Ted Cruz Picks Carly Fiorina As Running Mate; . Aired 8-9p ET

Aired April 27, 2016 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[20:00:03] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Good evening. Thanks for joining us.

If this campaign season is a roller coaster, there are two people who are now firmly seated in the car with their hands in the air, Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton. They are each much closer to the nomination after commanding wins in northeastern primaries. Trump with a clean sweep and Clinton losing just one state, Rhode Island to Bernie Sanders.

Now, the carnival of presidential politics has descended on America's heart land, Indiana, which votes next Tuesday. And the roller coaster being what it is, there were bunch more loop de-loops today.

For one thing, Ted Cruz with absolutely zero mathematical chance to become the nominee outright announced his choice for vice president, Carly Fiorina. And then Trump, there is Trump forget Mitt Romney's binders women Trump says there is a woman card which he is accusing Hillary Clinton of playing. Social media went bonkers over this for many reasons, not the least of which is of course the obvious fact that being a woman has never helped anyone get elected president in the entire history of the nation. We will have more on that later in the program.

Also today, Trump ditched his off the cuff speaking style and used a teleprompter something he said presidential candidate should never use to give a foreign policy speech.

Our Sara Murray reports all the twists and turns.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICS REPORTER (voice-over): Today, Donald Trump unleashing a blistering criticism of the Obama-Clinton foreign policy and previewing fault lines that could shape the general election.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I challenge anyone to explain the strategic foreign policy vision of Obama-Clinton. It has been a complete and total disaster.

MURRAY: In his formal speech today in Washington, Trump called for an America first approach to foreign policy.

TRUMP: My foreign policy will always put the interest of the American people and American security above all list. It has to be first.

MURRAY: Trump pledging that intervention won't be his first in-state and saying he will seek to improve relationships with countries like Russia.

TRUMP: We desire to live peacefully and in friendship with Russia and China.

MURRAY: Rather than delve into specifics, Trump says it is time to stop broadcasting America's every move.

TRUMP: We must as a nation be more unpredictable. We are totally predictable.

MURRAY: After a five state sweep Tuesday, Trump feels more secure than ever in his frontrunner status.

TRUMP: I consider myself the presumptive nominee, absolutely .

MURRAY: To clinch the nomination, he needs roughly 49 percent of remaining delegates to hit the magic 1237. To date, he won about 50.2 percent of the delegates. So if he keeps up his current pace, the nomination should be within his grasp. For Trump, it is a sign a strategy that got him this far is working.

TRUMP: You have a football team and you're winning and you get to the super bowl, you don't change the quarterback, right. So I'm not changing.

MURRAY: And that general election fight could be brutal as Trump tries an even sharper tone against Clinton, questioning whether she has any credentials beyond her gender.

TRUMP: Frankly, if Hillary Clinton were a man, I don't think she would get five percent of the vote. The only thing she has going is the woman's card.

MURRAY: Trump is not the only one with his eye on the general. Today Ted Cruz making the unconventional decision to tap Carly Fiorina as his VP, if he can win the nomination as a contested convention.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Carly is a vice presidential nominee who I believe is superbly skilled, superbly gifted at helping unite this party, bring us together so we stand united as one.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Sarah Murray joins us.

Now, Trump just finishing talking in Indiana. What did he have to say? Did he talk about Fiorina at all?

MURRAY: Yes, Anderson. He did talk about Carly Fiorina and Ted Cruz. And he was sort of openly mocking this latest move by Cruz saying this is the guy who is mathematically eliminated from winning first ballot. He is not going to win and yet he announced this VP. So Trump doesn't seem overly worried that this dual ticket is somehow is going to hamper his chances.

But he also said another interesting thing that is going through the minds of his political rivals which is if I win here in Indiana, it is over. And that's what we are hearing from more and more aides to rival campaigns that if Donald Trump does manages to come to victory here in Indiana, it is going to be very difficult to deny him the 1237 delegates he is going to need to arrive in Cleveland as the nominee - Anderson.

COOPER: All right. Sara Murray, thanks very much.

As Sara mentioned, Ted Cruz announced in Indianapolis that Carly Fiorina is going to be his running mate. Sunlen Serfaty joins me now with more on that.

Cruz received a lot of criticism about the announcement. What's he has been saying?

SUNLEN SERFATY, NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, in fact, it was very notable today, Anderson, that senator Cruz when he was making this big announcement of Carly Fiorina, within that speech he really addressed the criticism head onto make the move certainly speaking to the volume and depth of the criticism coming to him today. Now, Senator Cruz acknowledging that some are saying that this is an unusual move, certainly is atypical, not only given timing but certainly for a candidate given his standing in the campaign right now. Well, Cruz is shooting right back and saying look, nothing about this campaign is typical or traditional. And trying to pivot to a message his campaign has been trying to push recently, almost casting himself as underdog, one that is eager to make a rebound. You know, Senator Cruz is saying to supporters here, you know, you're going to start hearing that Donald Trump is the nominee. Well, don't believe them. So it seems to me the Cruz campaign is really trying to use this VP announcement, this really early VP announcement to kind of capture that as a sense of possibility for his candidacy going forward, Anderson.

[20:05:41] COOPER: All right. Sunlen, thanks very much.

I should point out we asked Senator Cruz to come on the program tonight, he declined for a guy who always saying that the media is, you know, giving Donald Trump a lot of attention that he continues to decline requests for interviews, but that is what he has done.

A lot to talk about with the panel tonight. We have the "New York Times" national political correspondent Patrick Healy, CNN political commentator and New York One political anchor Errol Louis, chief political analyst Gloria Borger, and CNN political commentators Kayleigh McEnany who supports Trump, Tara Setmayer and Margaret Hoover.

Gloria, what do you make of him naming Fiorina?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Why not.

COOPER: Is this just a grand distraction?

BORGER: Yes, it is.

COOPER: Changed their message from last night's disastrous performance.

BORGER: Exactly, change conversation, completely diversionary, I mean, why not do it, right? He puts all his chips in the middle of the table. This is it, naming a woman. Maybe she will help him a little bit in California, maybe not. She did lose a Senate race there. They like each other. She has campaigned for him. She endorsed him a while ago. She has been out there with him. And I think he has nothing to lose by doing this except all of us saying that it is a last ditch effort to save his campaign, which by the way it is.

COOPER: Well, Errol, also in the wake of the sort of Kasich-Cruz deal, it seems like he is just throwing everything in the kitchen sink at this.

ERROL LOUIS, POLITICAL ANCHOR, NY1: Well, that is right. The moment has arrived. He, himself, acknowledged that he is low on resources. So one thing you get with Carly Fiorina is somebody who is possibly a self-funder who has a bunch of money, who had in fact ran in California. She didn't win, but she got about 42 percent of the vote. She can help him perhaps win some selected districts because it is winner take all by district in California to a certain extent. So maybe she can help him round up some delegates. And then there is this question of trying to sort of grab back part of the news cycle and get us talking about this.

COOPER: The only time, I guess, or last time this happened, it was what, Reagan during the convention in --.

PATRICK HEALY, NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, NEW YORK TIMES: 1976, right. And then there was a convention, he was within some certainly greater striking distance of Gerald Ford back then when he made his pick. But that wasn't the kind of width of desperation you see around Ted Cruz. My Times colleagues reported that the Cruz campaign polled Carly Fiorina in Indiana and some other states and her numbers were, you know, very modest. She wasn't adding a lot, but after the Kasich alliance now, you know, coming embracing Carly Fiorina, it just looks like he is doing everything he can. He is not talking about policies, not talking about sort of the conservative issues that he feels like reenergizing the base, he is just throwing passes that makes him look like a smaller candidate.

BORGER: How many Hail Marys can you have in one day?

COOPER: You are talking to the wrong guy. I got no idea. (INAUDIBLE) what it is.

MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You know, what a major difference, though, between Reagan in 1976 was that Reagan was the conservative candidate and nominated this Republican senator from Pennsylvania (INAUDIBLE) who was a moderate. The point was it broadened the base. It broaden --.

(CROSSTALK)

HOOVER: Cruz has just nominated somebody who I ideologically has absolutely nothing distinct from him. They are exactly the same. This Cruz-Kasich ticket idea was at least, you know, suggested that you could build the map, you can grow the party, you can get other people in and keep the lid on Trump. This is just nonsense.

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Margaret has a great point because here is a thing. You have to ask why would he put someone just like him on the ticket, and the answer is he is losing among his own base. He is losing among very conservative voters. Donald Trump won those voters last night so he can't even shore up his base which is why he puts Carly Fiorina on the ticket.

T is so bizarre, I mean, I woke up from a nap, and I heard Ted Cruz announcing his VP pick. And I thought I was in the twilight zone and thinking, this I realized that, you know, it was just a play. It wasn't a nightmare. Look. He is desperate. He is looking forward. He sees that Trump is ahead by double digit in California. He is ahead in Indiana. He is ahead in virtually every state and he trounced Ted Cruz last night and last Tuesday as well. This is a move of desperation.

HEALY: But there's one obvious way where Carly Fiorina is not Ted Cruz and that is gender. She's a woman and it is (INAUDIBLE). It is a big piece of red meat bait that he is putting in front of Donald Trump. Donald Trump has whacked Carly Fiorina before Donald Trump's unfavorable numbers with women are a problem. A sort of regular Republican nominee in a normal cycle I think would be picking or at least looking at a female vice presidential candidate to run against Hillary Clinton. And in this way it just seems like at least for now not only changing the subject but really sort of giving Trump --

[20:10:05] COOPER: What is also interesting, you think what would have happened if Sarah Palin had actually endorsed Ted Cruz if this pick would have still been made. If in desperate need he would have turned to Sarah Palin.

TARA SETMAYER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I don't think so, given the way Sarah Palin has turned out since 2008, I don't think Ted Cruz necessarily wanted Sarah Palin's endorsement this time around. But you know, look, we can call it an act of desperation all we want. I will say tend to look at it a different way. This is a campaign. And the campaign is about strategy. And this was a strategic decision to me. There has been nothing conventional about this campaign. Nothing traditional about it. So Ted Cruz looked at the situation.

Donald Trump can call himself the presumptive nominee all he wants, but the game is still not over yet. He has not reached 1237. So, you know, he compares himself to Ronald Reagan all the time. At this point Ronald Reagan had 70 percent at this point in 1980.

COOPER: So for you, the strategy is that this gives delegates something else to consider. SETMAYER: Absolutely. Gives delegates something else to consider.

It gives them a two fer because that's the point was made before that yes, Ted Cruz is low on resources, so why not bring in someone where he - Carly Fiorina is an effective surrogate for him. And we also remember that Carly Fiorina is one of the only people who ever put Donald Trump in his place on the debate stage in a way that a lot of women felt very proud after he went after her.

MCENANY: That's the key.

SETMAYER: That's correct and she is very effective that way.

HOOVER: Carly Fiorina is a bulldog. She is a pit bull and she can go after Donald Trump. She can go after Hillary Clinton in a way that gets earned media. And that's what they need right now. They need to be winning this media cycles. They cannot afford to lose a day leading into Indiana. And she is frankly his best hope.

SETMAYER: And as the communications person here on Capitol Hill for many years, I look at that and said this is a great way to get the news cycle back. And he did that. And we changed the subject, which is important when you are trying to get earned media.

COOPER: In terms of, Kayleigh, Cruz today in the announcement said it is he and Fiorina on one side and Trump and Clinton on the other side which is does that make any sense to you?

MCENANY: So bizarre because on the ideological spectrum, you can't get farther away than Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. It is such a bizarre statement for me to put them in the same category. He was in the role of a businessman, now he is in the role of --

SETMAYER: So why did he praise her as a good secretary of state.

MCENANY: If you walk down Wall Street and talk to the businessmen and CEOs, they will donated to both candidates. When you're a businessman, that is exactly what you do.

SETMAYER: So he does play in both sides.

MCENANY: No he doesn't when you are --.

COOPER: And Tara, you are arguing that Trump is secretly more closer --.

SETMAYER: Absolutely. And he said so. His record says it. You go back and you look how he praised Hillary Clinton, thought she was a wonderful secretary of state after the disaster in Libya, you know. He was all about, you know, Chuck Schumer and all of these other people that he is now complaining what disastrous foreign policy. But he had no money giving them money and supporting them (INAUDIBLE) when it benefitted him.

MCENANY: And by the way Tara is giving the reasons why the Republican Party lost the last two election cycles, by the way. She would like someone like Ted Cruz win the nomination, who has the most narrow, ideological standpoint of any candidate probably in modern political history in the Republican Party who would lose the nomination outright to Hillary Clinton in a landslide. Donald Trump has expanded the platform on trade, on noninterventionism. He has shaken up the Republican Party in a way that it is needed to be taken out for a very long time.

COOPER: Does Carly Fiorina, though, continue - I mean, yes, it is a bump in the news cycle today. Tomorrow, you know, the next day, I mean, next week, the story is Indiana and what happens in Indiana.

BORGER: Right. And it is about delegates and it is about convincing delegates that your ticket is electable, right, and maybe Carly Fiorina helps, except she didn't do so well in the presidential contest herself.

COOPER: Or when she ran for Senate.

BORGER: Or when she ran for senate so she doesn't bring a state with her. She is, you know. So I think this was a strategic, tactical move to say look at what we would look like. And we would look better than Donald Trump and whomever he may choose.

COOPER: We have to take a quick break. When we come back more on Trump's foreign policy speech today. He said he will put America first, get rid of ISIS very quickly and he blasted President Obama's policies. We will get some reaction from two people know a lot about foreign policy next.

Also ahead on the Democratic side, Hillary Clinton getting closer to clinching the nomination, Bernie Sanders maybe shifting his strategy as a result. The latest when we continue.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:18:14] COOPER: As we reported after a five state primary sweep that puts him closer again to the presidential nomination, Donald Trump today gave a foreign policy speech. The optics were certainly presidential. He was at a podium in front of the American flag, reading off a teleprompter which is at times he blasted others for doing that, though he did do it at APAC meeting. The message was, according to analysts, at times contradictory, and others were long on promises, short on specifics. Listen to what he said about ISIS.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: And then there is ISIS. I have a simple message for them. Their days are numbered. I won't tell them where and I won't tell them how. We must, we must as a nation be more unpredictable. We are totally predictable. We tell everything. We're sending troops, we tell them. We're sending something else, we have a news conference. We have to be unpredictable. And we have to be unpredictable starting now. But they're going to be gone. ISIS will be gone if I'm elected president and they will be gone quickly.

(END VIDEO CLIP) COOPER: Joining me, senior political analyst, David Gergen, former adviser to four presidents and CNN military analyst retired army lieutenant general Mark Hertling.

David, what did you make of Trump speech today? I mean, it didn't take little time to kind of adjust watching and reading the teleprompter in this way.

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Anderson, the critics in foreign policy, especially to say in foreign relations are going to pan the speech, least sophisticated speech by a major presidential candidate in year, you know. It is long on analysis, you know, and very short on specifics as you say. Doesn't really tell us how he is going to get rid of ISIS, promises he has a secret plan.

Now, that being said, I think those criticisms are generally on target. But I must tell you it is a big event from where he has been. And tor that I think he deserves encouragement. The more he speaks up from a teleprompter and has a coherent speech in which he tells us what his priorities are, that's an advance in the campaign. He has to at least start thinking about a complicated world.

Now, I must tell you, I also thought that it had -- what he left out, very importantly, as nothing about Mexico and the wall and deportation. You know, that's often been part of the foreign policy pitch. Instead he put jobs in the middle. He put, you know, stability in the middle of it. I think a lot of foreign countries are terrified by the prospect of Donald Trump, take reassurance doesn't sound like a madman who is dropping bombs everywhere. He really talk emphasizing need for peace and stability. And I think they will draw some modest reassurance.

[20:20:51] COOPER: General Hertling, I mean, you have been on the end of U.S. policy for a long time, what do you make of it and this whole idea of being unpredictable, and not sort of saying you're moving troops and things like that?

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes. I'll talk speech, first, Anderson, if you allow me. I am not a political pundit obviously. I don't talk about ground games or delegate counts or anything like that. I am more concerned about national security strategy and leadership. And so, when I heard he was giving a policy speech today, security policy, had my pen ready, I was taking notes and I was very disappointed. It was incoherent, rambling speech as David just said.

COOPER: Incoherent?

HERTLING: Incoherent to me, you know. And he made his five points initially, but then he began a lot of back and forth, contradicting himself in many situations and not just not providing the details that you would want in strategy. Strategy is all about ends, what you try to achieve objectives, the ways you are going to do it and the means you are going to use to get there. I didn't hear any of that in the speech. And there were quite a few things in there that actually disturbed me. COOPER: So the idea, well, I don't want to give the strategy because

we have to be unpredictable, do you buy that?

HERTLING: I don't. We live in a free society. The press is named in the constitution. The American people have a right to know what we are doing. You know, that doesn't mean giving the details of secret operations or the way we are going to maneuver or place soldiers, but certainly the press has the -- and it is a condition of the battlefield, as commander in combat in several occasions, we dealt with the press. You had to make sure they had information to give the American people because we work for the American people. So you can't do these thing in secret. You can certainly still surprise the enemy and use deception the deception, but you have to tell the American people what you're doing and what kind of their sons and daughters you are taking for different operations.

COOPER: It is interesting point, David, because when you think about it, like Vladimir Putin, he is plenty unpredictable, but is that really what you want from a leader of the free world?

GERGEN: No, Anderson. I think one of the great worries about Donald Trump is he will be unpredictable and will be erratic. He will wake up one day, have a notion and just go out and do something. And people are looking for a commander in-chief who is wiser than - steadier than that. I think that's really, really important for our friends and allies around the world.

To go to the general's point, you cannot go to war, send American troops in without going to the public first and saying what you're doing. Very importantly, you can't just have a secret plan to go take out ISIS and expect your allies to be there unless you are going to tell them what the plan is and they have to be prepared, too. So has he to break out of this. I think that's the weakest part, trust me, I'm get rid of ISIS. I have my own secret plan. I don't think that will hold.

COOPER: Well, it is interesting, General Hertling, because you were on the program I think after the first interview I did with Donald Trump and his policy then for ISIS was take Iraq's oil, surround the oil fields, take the oil, which is unclear how he was going to do that, then send in Mobile Exxon, surround those companies with U.S. troops while they extract Iraq's oil and essentially steal the country's oil as somehow payment or bounty and depriving Iraq - ISIS in the process.

(CROSSTALK)

HERTLING: Let me go back to the beginning of what I said, Anderson. It was incoherent and rambling. Now, his strategy has evolved, if you want to call it a strategy from bombing and circling the oil field to today it was trust me, I'll get it done, and get it done very fast. Well, you know, I have to tell you that to me as a military guy, that's somewhat insulting. We have had forces on the ground, this is very complex type of warfare. It is very difficult. You are trying to garner support from various political bases in Iraq and in other places now. And to say that he can get it done because of personal desires and his perspective, it is insulting. I'll go back to that word, that's insulting to me as a military man.

COOPER: David, I mean, to that point it does imply that somehow the military personnel who are fighting and, you know, sacrificing their lives don't want to get it done quick or I guess Donald Trump would argue they have their hands tied behind their back by administration policy.

[20:25:13] GERGEN: I didn't see this as insult to our fighting troops. And I certainly didn't see it as a view that the president is doing all he can. I mean, the reports are that the Pentagon folks and military guys are coming up with plans all the time to get rid of ISIS but they simply can't get the White House to agree to more ambitious plans. And I think what Trump is signaling is he will do something more muscular, but needs to tell us more than he told us.

I just want to come back to another point, Anderson. I do think given where he has been, the casual way he handled foreign policy so many times, at least we're getting him on paper now and forced to think through. I agree that there is lack of coherence in much of what he said. A lot of contradictions. But I would like to see him do more speeches like this. At least he begin to have some sense of what a Trump presidency is, not just a personality. It has been a personality race so far.

COOPER: Yes, in the same way when he spoke to "The New York Times" for over 100 minutes or whatever it was about foreign policy, it was in illuminating because it was in great detail.

David Gergen, thank you. General Mark Hertling, always.

Just ahead, Donald Trump slamming Hillary Clinton, accusing her of playing the woman card. She is now firing back, saying deal me in. Is that a risky strategy for Trump? Is he actually giving Clinton a gift? We will talk about that ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:30:21] COOPER: Leaving before the polls close on Super Tuesday, four of -- for the two frontrunners were sparring, Donald Trump throwing a familiar punch, accusing Hillary Clinton of playing the woman card his made before. Clinton hit back in her victory speech last night even before Trump repeated the comments.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If fighting for women's health care and paid family leave and equal pay is playing the woman card, then deal me in!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Current responding by mocking Clinton's remarks as shouting and doubling down in his own victory speech remarks today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well I think the only card she has is the woman's card, she's got nothing else going. And frankly, if Hillary Clinton were a man, I don't think she'd get 5 percent of the vote. The only thing she's got going is the woman's card, and the beautiful thing is women don't like her, OK?

And she's playing the woman card left and right. She didn't' she did play it last time with Obama but she's playing by charter this time and she will be called on it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Well of course, part of the awkward backdrop for Donald Trump's accusation is he's his own history of making controversial, and many would say offensive remarks about women. This much a certain, women will be a key voting block in the November election.

Back now with our panel and also joining former Michigan Governor Jennifer Granholm, is a adviser for the pro-Clinton Super PAC correct the record.

Margaret, I mean these comments from Trump about thing the women's card, does it actually kind of play into Hillary Clinton's hands?

MARGARET HOOVER, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Exactly, it's exactly what Republicans should not be doing any Republican should be doing, because here's where we tack towards the general election right. I mean this there not hurt Donald Trump that are Republican primary -- Republican female voters have proven they are totally immune to these sort of insults or attacks.

The issue is that if you're going to get a coalition that can win in November, you have to get a combination of demographic votes that -- you have to do better than Mitt Romney. Mitt Romney lost the female vote by 12 percentage points to Barack Obama OK. So like let just start there, and think you've got to do better. And then discount the fact they're running as the first female in history. There is going to be -- this historic relevance, to not just to people like us who are sophisticated and think about and see in individuals as exactly what they offer to the campaign, but the historic factor, that je ne sais quoi in the last few weeks where people who vote every four years and really only tune in a couple weeks before the election or after the convention saying wow, you have the first woman in history running versus whoever she's running against, that matters. And how she's treated is really important.

COOPER: Kayleigh what do you say to that?

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah, Margaret is correct to say it does plays into Hillary's hand, it's more effective to attack her failed record as secretary of state. But that being said, you know, lets look at the efficacy of the Clinton that he made last night about the gender card, because I do think he's correct. Unfortunately it will be used by her, but I think he's correct, because here's the thing. Hillary Clinton, she stood on a stage opposite Rick Lazio in 2000. He walk over to her podium and her and her surrogate were out he next day calling him and they painted it as a sexist encounter. Likewise with Bernie Sanders, we said excuse me, her surrogates wrap the next day saying that this was sexist, too.

This is a repeated history of her using her gender in debates. And if you want to empower women, you don't do that by playing the victim card and making one of them look weak and taking advantage of that scenario whenever it serves you. That doesn't help women in long run. In fact it's a disgrace to the feminist -- the first generation feminists.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: But I don't think ...

COOPER: Govern -- governor ...

BORGER: ... that Hillary Clinton is playing the victim card here at all, she said deal me in. I mean this isn't playing a victim. It's like if you want to have debate about my experience, and whether I get more than 5 percent in the vote. Deal me in -- I mean there's no sort of victim hood about Hillary Clinton at all, I don't think.

COOPER: Governor Granholm, as a supporter ...

JENNIFER GRANHOLM, FMR GOVERNOR OF MICHIGAN: I think she's right. Yeah, and I mean Gloria is totally right. She is fighting on behalf of women all across this country. This is not about here being a victim, it is about her making sure that people have equal pay, that people are -- have access to decent health care. I see, you know what, Anderson, you know, everybody keeps talks about this women card. I think there are entrepreneurs right now who are at printing presses printing up 52 card packs to be a able to sell at the Democratic convention with all these great women in history like Sojourner Truth and Elizabeth Cady Stanton and I'm telling you those women are looking down at what happened last night and seeing like finally we are on our way to having this a monopoly of men, 227 years is enough. I think those cards will sell really be hot cakes.

COOPER: Tara what you?

TARA SETMAYER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You know, the shame of all of this is that it takes away from the rich history that Republicans actually do have with women because, you know, Republicans were the first ones to put women suffrage on the platform. You know, Republicans were the first to have a woman congresswoman.

[20:35:04] You know, these are things that we can go through, you know, our position on this, but Donald Trump when he says things like this, and believe me, I'm no fan of Hillary Clinton, I think there's plenty of other reasons why Hillary Clinton -- other attacks we could go against Hillary Clinton than this one, but when he does this, it opens the door for things like the governor said, it gives them Carte Blanche you call -- accuse Republicans of things, that we're anti- woman, that were all these things that we've been trying so hard to get the message out that we are not, Donald Trump opens this door. And I'm sorry, but for any professional woman who's worked in a male dominated field, they look at someone like Donald Trump and they go, yeah we had that obnoxious, misogynistic boss that demeans us, because we are women and that resonates with a lot of women.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: Let me ask you, Kayleigh, one of the things Trump said this morning, he said he is still recovering from Hillary Clinton shouting last night, which a lot of supporters of Hillary Clinton see as essentially a sexist comment, that they don't, you know, people say she's shouting, when a male is making a speech, you don't hear that. Is that what you hear when he say?

MCENANY: No, not at all. And Hillary Clinton when Bernie Sanders said stop shouting, she immediately that's a perfect example, turned it around to be a sexist gender dynamic, it is an insult to women everywhere when Hillary Clinton for her convenience plays the weak victim. It's an insult to young women like me, young women on my college campus who are trying there best to be strong women when she plays the weak victim part ...

COOPER: Does she not come across as a strong woman to you?

MCENANY: No, in those moments absolutely not, when she picks in moment, where she should debate in then on a policy and then instead takes the moment to -- instead engaging in add home attack essentially by painting Bernie Sanders as sexist or Rick Lazio as sexist, what she is doing is insulting women everywhere who are doing their best to be strong.

COOPER: You know ...

BORGER: ... every day.

SETMAYER: He engages in a tact against women. I mean it should be more insulting to you as a women, that you're supporting a candidate that says women are fat pigs, and pieces of blanks on his arm, and that he talks about their looks, and demeans women all the time, that publicly shamed his first wife, when he ...

COOPER: Let's just play some of the comments he's made on the campaign trail that have gotten so much notice.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Megyn Kelly is a lightweight, this is a lightweight, this is not a reporter. I don't care about Megyn.

I know where she went, it's disgusting, I don't want to talk about it.

I'm watching television, I see her barking like a dog, right, you know, she's barking like a dog.

Carly has a habit of just speaking whenever she wants to speak.

You know, you could see there was blood coming out of her eyes, blood coming out of her wherever.

Honestly, Megyn, if you don't like it, I'm sorry, I have been pretty nice to you, although I could probably maybe not be based on the way you treated me, but I wouldn't do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Now, a lot of his supporters see those comments and them each individually and say, well there was nothing wrong with what he was saying. Do you believe there was anything wrong with it?

MCENANY: We could have filled those 30 seconds with him criticizing males as well, he just criticized Kasich and the way he ate. He has a joking humors demeanor that not exclusive to women, he uses it against men, too. And like his wife Melania said, he treat men and women equally and terms of the ...

COOPER: Governor Granholm, it doesn't seem though that it's hurt him certainly in the primaries, that at the stage with Rick.

GRANHOLM: Oh, it is hurt them though.

COOPER: With his supporter.

GRANHOLM: Yeah, well ...

COOPER: I mean, he won of 50 female vote last night ...

GRANHOLM: Yes, yes.

COOPER: ... on the Republican.

GRANHOLM: And 50 percent of Republican women do not want to vote for him. 70 percent of women overall have an unfavorable view of him. I think he is shooting for 90 percent, honestly, and those statements that you read, that you showed are just the tip of the iceberg. This guy has decades of statements like that.

Like, you know, that when he comes home, he hopes -- and dinner is not ready, he goes through the roof for the sort of sexual things he said about his infant baby when he was on Howard Stern. I mean the guy has got such a litany of horrible things that he has said about women. All I can say is put back -- this is going to be an amazing election, and it won't be just on gender, but he's character will be at issue on this.

MCENANY: I certainly ...

BORGER: Here's the thing. Donald Trump needs to win at according to lots of numbers I look at, 70 percent of white men if he's going to overcome this huge chasm, not a gender gap, chasm on gender. And every time he talks about Heidi Cruz or Carly Fiorina, he digs himself a deeper whole. So either he is a primary candidate or he's going to become a general election candidate. And talking about Hillary Clinton that way, doesn't make for a good general election.

COOPER: Kayleigh, the final words.

MCENANY: I agree with Gloria that he can't do the re-tweets. That has to end. But, you know, Governor Granholm, you bring up statements from the '90s, and I think he is going to go back Hillary Clinton actions from the '90s, when she was seating in her office and Linda Trip said she was sitting there demonizing women, accusing her husband of sexual assault. That is the ultimate anti-women thing you could ever do. You believe victims of sexual assault, you don't demean them and accuse them. So he's going to bring it up, and that will nullify all of this.

[20:40:02] COOPER: All right, I want to thank everybody in the panel.

Just ahead, Bernie Sanders says he still is in the race to win, but today seemed to be signaling his play book for the convention is shifting.

More on that ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Bernie Sanders was back on the campaign trail today after losing four of the five states that voted yesterday, he insisted he's still in the race to win, but also said if he doesn't win, the goal is to put together the strongest progressive agenda that any political party has ever seen.

Back with our panels and joining us, is CNN political contributor and Clinton supporter Michael Nutter and Nomiki Konst, Sanders supporter and a Democratic strategist.

Gloria, I mean there are sort of mixed messages from the Sanders campaign. I mean he says they're, you know, they're in it to win, but clearly after last night it is a different tale.

BORGER: No, and they've decided to start letting staff go, and because they really can't afford to keep them around. I think what Bernie Sanders' campaign is trying to do is trying to figure out a way to have the maximum impact.

COOPER: Right.

BORGER: Going into this convention. The candidate himself has been talking now about his agenda. They're talking about his platform. They want impact, not only on the platform this summer at the convention but I think beyond.

[20:45:03] I think he's serious about extracting some issues, promises, appointments, whatever it is from Hillary Clinton, should she become the nominee. I mean he did a remarkable thing during this campaign, he's got money, he doesn't need her money. What he does need is some promises from her, maybe it's about raising the minimum wage to $15, maybe it's about trade, you know, whatever it is, he's going to try and get it.

MICHAEL NUTTER, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: Gloria, but as you will know, I mean this happens all the time. When you get to this stage, and Senator Sanders, no matter what happens, and if he is not the nominee, if he's not the next president, he's going to be a senator.

BORGER: Right.

NUTTER: Right, so he has these issues and the opportunity should Hillary Clinton not only be the nominee but go on to be president of the United States of America, he gets to move those issues forward as a United States senator, sitting in the Senate, having had these conversations. So he's going to ask for whatever he's going to ask for. The issue for and challenge for Secretary Clinton is, how far do you go ...

BORGER: Right.

NUTTER: ... on these items now ...

COOPER: Right.

NUTTER: How far do you go during the convention, and all of that gets lined up for the general. You can't do the work if you don't win.

COOPER: Nomi, as a Sanders supporter, is that enough that he can just push legislation through as a senator? I mean I assumed somebody who has invested time, if your -- if one is a Sanders supporter and he has, I mean the arc from which he

started to where he is now is extraordinary, the energy he has brought, the people, the new people he's brought in, does he deserve more than that?

NOMIKI KONST, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I don't think -- I think what we are missing here, is this is not about Senator Sanders, this is about 80 percent of the Democratic Party under the age of 45 who is new voters, independents, millennials, veterans, Black Lives Matter. All of these different groups of people who felt like they didn't have a seat at the table with the Democratic Party over the past 15, 20 years when they start to changed their strategy. And now they finally have their voice not just being heard but valued. And I think what's important for this convention, it is not about negotiating at the table, it's not about what he can get out of it on the platform, it's about how we can be inclusive.

COOPER: Is Bernie Sanders the candidate of Black Lives Matter?

KONST: I think that Black Lives Matter has definitely been part of the movement especially over the past few months. And we have seen that at his rallies, at his events, I mean I went though be walk throughout Manhattan, and there was a whole -- it was a whole block full of Black Lives Matter organizers.

Now, you know, the difference between I think past organizing events is that we have leaders. You know, what's great about this generation, it is very much people to people. It is about being on Twitter and connecting with each other, meeting someone the day of, when you say there's going to be an event. And that's -- it's not about Bernie Sanders leading that cause, it's about what to do with that energy, because the Democratic Party will be dead.

COOPER: But it's interesting Errol that you now have Donald Trump saying he is going to take some the things that Sanders has been talking about essentially.

ERROL LOUIS, POLTICAL ANCHOR NY1: Well sure, sure. Look at ...

KONST: Good luck to that.

LOUIS: ... this is -- well it's very interesting time. And if you look at some of the positions on, you know, foreign trade is usually what cited as well as a number of other issues as well as style, and, you know, you got a real potent sort of swapping of issues. And it's an interesting and in important time.

So, I mean, I think Nomi is exactly right. When you go into the bargaining session and it's going to -- I guess last for the next 90 days through the convention and maybe a little beyond, it's not going to just be the traditional thing about, you know, will Bernie Sanders have, you know, sort of an implied pick for the next DNC chair or for the executive director of the DNC, is he going to have a speaking role at the convention and maybe some money to go and campaign in the general election for.

He's looking for bigger things presumably, not just items within the party platform but also I mean look, if he doesn't continue as a senator, he's a ranking member on the budget committee. I mean there any number of things he might want, he might want to change delegate selection move.

COOPER: Mayor?

LOUIS: It's not -- it's a great time to have this conversation.

NUTTER: Agree with all the points. I think the issue that Nomi has raised though, the real question for Senator Sanders again and I'm not making any assumptions, we are where we are and everything a speculation going forward. But should things not work out for him and all of these groups organizations have people that he has, you know, kind of energized for this moment, what happens after the convention. Do they stay actively engaged and involved? Can he continue, you know, to lead them and bring them as a part of his been the voice ...

KONST: Yeah.

NUTTER: ... in many instances, what happens when they come to the realization, this is not going to happen. Is it the same old thing, then where's our guy?

(CROSSTALK)

KONST: I think that's the burden of the party. And they have to respect ...

NUTTER: Everybody is going to come together. KONST: ... to rid of close primaries, get rid of them right away, because 43 percent of new registered voters -- no seriously, 43 percent ...

NUTTER: That's called the Democratic primary.

KONST: But 43 -- well, you want to have a Democratic Party, 43 percent of new voters are independent and the majority of millennials, the future of the party, are independent.

COOPER: All right, we got to leave it there, thank you everybody.

Coming up next, big those of dirty politics, threats made against some of the Indiana's Republican delegates to that, story and that ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:53:48] COOPER: For the battle for Indiana is getting ugly. Threats are actually being made against some of the state's Republican delegates. Gary Tuchman has that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Two Republican delegates from Indiana, both John Kasich supporters, who are targets of threatening e-mails.

THOMAS JOHN, INDIANA REPUBLICAN DELEGATE: Tom, hope the family is well. Your name and info has been given to me on a list as about to go public. Good luck becoming a delegate. We are watching you.

TUCHMAN: Thomas John is an Indiana Republican district chairman who says he has received about 30 text messages all because he's made it clear he plans to support John Kasich on a second vote and not Donald Trump should there be contested convention. Craig Dunn, another Republican district chairman who says he's received about 50 threatening messages.

CRAIG DUNN, INDIANA REPUBLICAN DELEGATE: The last one I got frankly was the most disturbing, to where the person said if Donald Trump doesn't get the nomination, we should cleanse the delegates.

TUCHMAN: He also received this letter. You are a traitor to your nation as well as the people of Indiana. A Trump delegate should be loyal to Trump and reflect the will of the people. You are the true Satan. And there are voice mails.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes this message is for Tom, I do hope and pray that he dies.

[20:55:01] TUCHMAN: That is a lady who called your office Tom saying she hopes and praise that you die. You hear that and what are you thinking?

JOHN: On one hand, sounds like an old lady. On the other hand, what prompts somebody to do that? TUCHMAN: This Indiana delegate, Curt Smith, is a prominent Ted Cruz supporter.

CURT SMITH, INDIANA REPUBLICAN DELEGATE: Please join me on welcoming the next president of the United States, Senator Ted Cruz.

TUCHMAN: The way it works in Indiana, Smith and Thomas John will be compelled to vote for Donald Trump if Trump wins the Indiana primary. Craig Dunn will have to vote Trump if Trump he wins his congressional district.

DUNN: I'm going to comply with that law, but nobody can make me enjoy casting that ballot.

SMITH: That's a rule, a law and I am a Republican, I follow the law.

JOHN: I don't think it is in the best interest of the country, but I'll absolutely do it, because that's the rule, because that's the rule.

TUCHMAN: Regarding the threats, the leaders of the Trump campaign in Indiana tell CNN they are deplorable and that they condemn any kind of intimidation or any kind of threat.

Cruz supporter Curt Smith, says he's only received snide comments but is aware what could happen.

SMITH: It comes with the fight these days and if you care about issues, if you think there are certain things that are important, and your prepared to fight for them even some cost some consequence.

TUCHMAN: These delegates never envisioned having to look over their shoulders when deciding if they should become delegates. But for now, they try they will stay the course, hoping Donald Trump doesn't get the nomination, at the same time preparing for the possibility of helping to put him over the top in Cleveland.

And preparing for the possibility of more disturbing messages.

JOHN: My wife was taken aback. But, you know, we believe in the Second Amendment and, you know, we'll be fine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Have delegate's notified police about these e-mails and voice mails?

TUCHMAN: Yes, these delegates Anderson have told the state police here in Indiana and federal law enforcements and the authorities are investigating. We've sent e-mails to the addresses that were listed on these messages and, Anderson, I can tell you not shockingly, we haven't heard back from any of people who sent the messages.

COOPER: All right, Gary thanks very much.

More "360" ahead. The frontrunners are closer to the magic delegate numbers but their opponents are not backing down, the latest, next.

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