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Countdown To New York Primary; Bernie & Jane Release Tax Return; Trump Vs. The RNC; Anger From Trump Supporters In Colorado; Top Republican Threatened By Trump Supporters; Former Apprentice Contestants Against Trump; Trump Leading New York Polls Ahead Of Primary; Will Clinton Release Wall Street Speeches?; Clinton & Sanders Battle In New York; Clinton Talks About 1994 Crime Bill; Clinton Leads Sanders By 17 Points In NY. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired April 15, 2016 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:14] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: That does it for us, thanks for watching.
CNN Tonight with Don Lemon, starts now.
DON LEMON, CNN TONIGHT ANCHOR: It is breaking news because Bernie Sanders releases his tax return as he promised in our CNN debate just days before the New York primary.
This is "CNN Tonight." I'm Don Lemon.
We're going to tell you what's in the return in just a moment, but with 95 delegates at stake on the Republican side, 247 for the Democrats, everybody is in a New York state of mind.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I will do everything I can as your president to remember what needs to be done here in a city that I love that is the greatest city in the world. And the greatest country in the world. And let's make sure we keep it that way.
DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: When I watched the Ted Cruz's of the world mocking New York values, I don't like it. I don't like it.
TED CRUZ, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: All across America, all across New York, people are waking up and help is on the way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So let's begin with breaking news from the Democrats tonight. Here to discuss CNN's Michael Smerconish. So let's start with the breaking news, the breaking news is ...
MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN ANCHOR: Sure.
LEMON: ... Bernie Sanders released his tax returns. He and his wife Jane made about $250,000 last year, 50 of that are Social Security benefit, he gave about $8,000 to charity. So what do you think took him so long?
SMERCONISH: I don't know man, you release a tax return on a Friday night you're thinking there's got to be something there, is the classic Friday night dump. And yet it doesn't appear to have anything that would be unsavory, embarrassing in the least to him. You can look at that tax number and say OK $8,000, 4 percent, how does that compare to what people across the country give. There's somewhere between 3 percent and 4 percent. So he's right there. It makes you wonder why he didn't send his wife home sooner to retrieve it.
LEMON: Yeah, the charity thing is not a big deal, especially when, you know, between the two of them they made $200,000. That's -- for some folks that's a lot of money, but it doesn't ...
LEMON: ... seem like, you know ...
SMERCONISH: No, I think Don -- I think it puts pressure on Hillary Clinton to release ...
LEMON: But those are going to see, is that -- he showed his. Is she going to show hers with the release of the transcripts with this?
SMERCONISH: So to speak, you would think right, I mean I did not think that she had a good answer to that issue in the debate, it's predictable, and Donald Trump has still not released his tax returns.
LEMON: Is she handling this poorly? Is it coming the same thing she did with her e-mails? Do you think she can do a better job?
SMERCONISH: I think she's absolutely handled it poorly. To say that others need to release their speeches, their text, will they -- no one else has spoken in the same way that she has for that kind of money.
LEMON: All right, let's talk about the Republican side now. Can we talk about Donald Trump? Here's what -- this fight over delegates. He is saying, he says, this is a system is a disaster. It's not good for democracy. It's a dangerous system and people are angry as hell. When you have Ted Cruz on the other side saying these are the rules. This is what they signed up for. So who's right?
SMERCONISH: They're both right. I think they're both right. And I think it's pretty stunning when you stop and think that Donald Trump is the front-runner? Not by a little, but by a lot. And he is calling this process rigged, which is really amazing.
To his credit, I think where he has some merit in terms of what he's saying is that, you look at Colorado last week and it was at arm's length from the electorate so that residents of that state never had an opportunity. It represents the party taking control of the process. There's something similar in New York insofar as Republican delegates are going to be selected by the party and not individuals who could go out there and run in the traditional sense. Pennsylvania, my home state, you got 54 of 71 completely uncommitted. So that Donald Trump could win Pennsylvania in a landslide and 54 lets call it two-thirds of the delegates ...
SMERCONISH: ... on the first ballot that could say, no we're going to vote for Ted Cruz.
SMERCONISH: So there's merit to that. On the other hand to Cruz's point, none of these rules that were changed were changed with any eye toward Donald Trump. Nobody thought we're going to be here today.
LEMON: This was about Rand Paul? Right, this was about Rand Paul?
SMERCONISH: It's about Rand Paul, but it's also about ...
LEMON: In 2012, yeah.
SMERCONISH: ... yeah, and it's very similar Don, I think to the superdelegate issue of the Democratic side of the aisle, because these moves are with the idea that the party knows best and they can pick a winner. People always remember George McGovern getting hammered, they remember Walter Mondale getting hammered and they say, you know, sometimes you can't trust the electorate.
LEMON: Yeah. Let me ask you then about the strategy for Donald Trump.
LEMON: Because it seems like, you know, he's saying, you know, I'm wondering if it's working. He is saying either I win or it's rigged or it's stacked against me. And your heads I win, tails I lose. So is this working, is it sticking with the electorate?
SMERCONISH: We're going to know when we get Cleveland, right.
SMERCONISH: I mean Donald Trump needs to get to 1,237, and I think he needs to get there before he arrives in Cleveland, because if he doesn't, I don't think he comes home with the prize. So what I really think is going on when he writes that op-ed for the "Wall Street Journal."
[21:05:04] You know, a Republican conservative oracle ...
LEMON: Let me read that.
LEMON: OK, this in "Wall Street Journal", its criticizing the delegate selection process. He says what we are seeing now is not a proper used of the rules but a flagrant abuse of the rules. Delegates are supposed to reflect the decisions of voters but the system is being rigged by party operatives with double agent delegates who reject the decision of voters. Go.
SMERCONISH: You would expect that the second or third place candidate would fire off that kind of a missile. Now, he's the front-runner. So what is he trying to do? He's trying to lock in his votes on a second, third, fourth, however many it takes ballot because he's been out hustled by Ted Cruz in the vineyards of the Republican Party. He's been laying all the groundwork with the GOP, the folks who will become delegates. This is Donald Trump saying to the party, you can't let those folks abandoned me on a second, third or fourth ballot.
LEMON: So let's talk about what happened in Brooklyn last night. It was an interesting debate.
SMERCONISH: A slugfest.
LEMON: Yeah, it was a slugfest, but did it change anything? Did either of them help or hurt themselves?
SMERCONISH: I don't think that the -- it was a great debate. And I think that Wolf did a hell of a job, because that was tough to manage right, there was like herding cats. But I think that the needle was probably not moved, that each got what they need, and he needed a knockout blow.
So on that basis, I would say that she comes out the winner because if the polls are to be believed, she has a very comfortable lead in New York and he doesn't need to just win New York, he needs to win it big to shift the momentum of this campaign.
LEMON: So no upset, do you think, they will not get upset? You think the poll should ...
SMERCONISH: I don't think, no -- unless the pollsters ...
LEMON: ... Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton?
SMERCONISH: Unless they are all wrong, you would say its going to be a big night for Donald Trump on Tuesday, it will be a big night for Hillary Clinton on Tuesday, and then it's on to Pennsylvania and the mid-Atlantic states.
LEMON: Thank you, Mr. Smerconish.
SMERCONISH: All right my friend.
LEMON: I watch you tomorrow, what time are you on again?
SMERCONISH: 9:00 and 6:00 p.m., thank you for that.
LEMON: I'll see you tomorrow right here on CNN.
LEMON: The host of Smerconish here.
On this, have Donald Trump supporters protesting in Colorado today but some are taking it to the next level sending threatening e-mails to Colorado GOP Chairman Steve House. Steve House joins me now. Thank you, sir. How are you doing this evening?
STEVE HOUSE, COLORADO REPUBLICAN PARTY CHAIRMAN: I'm doing well, Don. How are you?
LEMON: I'm doing great. As I said, you are the chairman of the Colorado Republican Party and its been, you know, and you've been in that media stormy and since Ted Cruz swap all 34 delegates.
Trump supporters have been furious. So tell us what's been happening to you.
HOUSE: Well, I'm getting a number of, you know, calls and people are expressing either support or discontent. Frankly, some of the calls from around the country have been great because people call up and say, we understand. We think you did the right thing. And I've developed some new friends across the country as a result of this.
LEMON: Yeah. Some have been really threatening, and I know that, you know, that would you said you don't we would rather we not read them specifically but they've been really threatening to pertaining to your family. Some of them are quite graphic. So what goes through your mind when you see something like this happening?
HOUSE: It's disappointing, I mean I don't think you believe that people would talk that way to somebody else. I think the country is a great country in a lot of ways because we have some level of respect for each other. And I think if you get to the point where, whether its politics or everyday life and you lose that level of respect, I think you've done more damage than good. And I don't like to see it obviously.
LEMON: Are you worried about your safety or your family's safety?
HOUSE: I don't think at this point. I think we've a number of people who are supporting us. And I think, you know, right now what we're worried about is making sure we get to Cleveland with the right things happening and people being enthusiastic and passionate but not over the top.
LEMON: Well speaking of Cleveland, Donald Trump has insinuated that there may be riots at the convention if he gets the most delegates and isn't nominated. His former campaign adviser Roger Stone said this in a web interview earlier this month. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROGER STONE, DONALD TRUMP FMR ADVISER: We're going to have protests, demonstrations. We will disclose the hotels and room numbers of those delegates who are directly involved in the steal. If you are from Pennsylvania, we'll tell you who the culprits are. We urge you to visit their hotel and find them. (END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So Mr. House, he mentions Pennsylvania, but it's clear he's talking about any delegate. Are delegates going to be intimidated by that?
HOUSE: I hope not. We've been talking to them about it. He actually came out here and did a radio interview and he talked about the Colorado delegation in the same vain. And we've talked to our folks about, you know, first of all, there's going to be a lot of pressure in this. I mean this is a very, very important time with a big decision.
So if you can't handle pressure, you need to come to us and we can help you navigate you way through it. But there's no question that delegates, unpledged or pledged, if this convention is contested, we'll have to face pressure.
LEMON: Do you think he's inciting violence?
HOUSE: I hope not. I hope that people understand that what he suggesting is that there's going to be a lot of contact and you need to prepare yourself. I think his statement, I wouldn't have made the statement, but I do think that our delegates ask about it even last Saturday and they continue to do that in e-mail.
[21:10:04] And I think they are getting prepared for it. I think he probably gave us a heads-up on what's going to happen.
LEMON: You know, he has called Donald Trump, he's called the Colorado process, a rigged system. He lays out his case against it in an op-ed in the "Wall Street Journal" today. He said Saturday, April 9, Colorado had an election without voters and 1 million Republicans in Colorado were sidelined. Responsible leaders should be shocked by the idea that party officials can simply cancel elections in America if they don't like what the voters may decide.
Why did you change the rules?
HOUSE: We actually didn't. We didn't change the rules at all. Colorado is a caucus state. We met in August. We have a rule in our bylaws that says we cannot do a binding straw poll in any circumstance. We considered the possibilities, the risks, the legal issues and chose not to change the rules. So in August, we didn't change any rules whatsoever.
LEMON: Yeah. Then Representative House, why not just let the people vote? Mr. House pardon me.
HOUSE: Well if you look at it, so to do a primary, which I think most people, if Donald Trump says, I want a million voters to vote, you have to do a primary. You don't do that a caucus. So we can't do a primary because the law was changed back in 2002 by the legislature to eliminate it on fiscal concerns, it was a $2 million to $4 million cost. So doing a caucus you invite people to come, you get 65,000, 70,000, 80,000 people. They walk through a five-step process and there's all kinds of voting. We actually did 10 difference elections in the process. I actually cut a check today for the bill for the balance. So when people tell me we didn't vote, I wish I didn't have to pay that 1,215 $17,000 ballot bill and then of course we had tens of thousands of ballots that were available and voted between the 2nd of April and 9th of April.
LEMON: So for financial reasons you're saying. But is that right that all the voters didn't get to vote because of that?
HOUSE: I prefer a primary. I really do. I think it's the best way to do it. And I think there's a mood for our caucus and I don't want to eliminate our caucus because every other race for the presidency it works very, very well.
In the presidency it's just not the kind of thing where you get the representation from people that we'd like. However, that requires legislative action and we're working on that right now, it just didn't get done in '16 and frankly when you go back to '12 and '08, we ran the same process but with a presumptive nominee coming out so early, nobody really noticed or brought it up at that point.
LEMON: All right. Anything you want to say to Donald Trump in case he's watching?
HOUSE: That if he's the nominee, we will absolutely support him. We've enjoyed the relationship with his campaign. I think the reality of it is that Colorado delegates believe, and I believe they were elected via the rules. They're going to go to Cleveland. They're going to represent well, and they don't want to hear the word rigged anymore because that's absolutely not what happened.
LEMON: Colorado GOP Chair Steve House, thank you sir. Have a good weekend.
HOUSE: Thanks Don.
LEMON: OK. When we come back, the former "Apprentice" contestants who want to tell Donald Trump you're fired. Wait until you hear what he says about them.
[21:16:43] LEMON: You probably want to sit down and pay close attention to this next segment, trust me. Before he started his presidential run, Donald Trump made headlines in New York, but the rest of the country really got to know him as a reality star of "The Apprentice." And now some former contestants on that show are hoping to tell their former boss "you're fired."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RANDAL PINKETT, FMR CANDIDATE THE APPRENTICE: We stand united as former candidates on "The Apprentice" not to denounce Donald Trump the man, but to denounce Donald Trump the presidential candidate's message.
KWAME JACKSON, FMR CANDIDATE THE APPRENTICE: Trump is not the candidate for America. Words matter and you incite violence when you cajole tacitly and implicitly encourage the next Dylan Roof or the next Timothy McVeigh.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We've seen violence at a multitude of his rallies. We've seen his supporters cheer and encourage violence. We've seen him refuse to condemn the violence.
PINKETT: And so today we denounce Donald's campaign of sexism, xenophobia, racism, violence and hate as a unified team.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: As with all things Trump, there are strong feelings on both sides. So here to discuss, Andy Dean, a Trump supporter and "Apprentice" contestant Kwame Jackson who competed in season one and Randal Pinkett who won season four.
Good to have all of you here gentleman, thank you so much. Before we -- you know, started all of this off on the show Kwame, do you remember are these things.
JACKSON: When we had the discussion about Dylan Roof and ...
JACKSON: ... I said that.
LEMON: You said that on the show.
Randal I like to ask you, you were the winner of season four, right? So why are you sing ling out Donald Trump a criticism now as winner as the winner of "The Apprentice"?
PINKETT: Well, first of all, it's not now. We've all spoken out against Donald. It just so happens that today we spoke out collectively. And as we've seen the campaign evolve from when Donald announced and talked about Mexicans at rapists and criminals to what we've seen more recently with the violence at his campaign rallies, we've all grown increasingly concerned that the Donald we knew when we competed is not the Donald that we know as a candidate.
And so ...
LEMON: So then what's going on here?
PINKETT: Well, I think we saw a signs of what we see from Donald, just it by virtue of his bombastic personality, his ego. This larger than life personality but what we didn't see is how extreme his views have evolved as he's become a political candidate and that's where the where our concern lies.
LEMON: Lowest common denominator, did you stop short of saying -- did you say we're bordering on the precipice of fascism? JACKSON: Yes, I say we're bordering on a precipice of fascism that basically, you know, you ask what's changed in this evolution and I've talked about this Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, the Trump that I used to know versus the Trump that I see now.
There's been a metastization, just like cancer and it's grown and the venom has increase and toxicity has increased. And so the alarm is at the gate. And now it's really important first to come as, you know, in one voice in unison, especially right before the New York primary with all these delegates at stake and speak up.
LEMON: Andy, you want to respond?
ANDY DEAN, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: Yeah, I mean my head is spinning. If we could get back to reality for a second which I think is a good word to use, there have been over 200 contestants on "The Apprentice." And so what happened today six of those contestants who are all Democrats, they'll admit they're Democrats.
[21:20:03] I mean Randal has very close ties, he once worked for Cory Booker, Tara Dowdell -- your all right there Kowme, right. Tara Dowdell is a well known liberal activists, you can watch him in MSNBC.
So all we saw are six individuals who will all admit to the fact that they're liberal come out against a conservative running for president of the United States. So that to me is a news, I guess what is news though is this Shakespearean-style betrayal of Donald Trump who gave all of us this amazing opportunity.
I tell you my life before "The Apprentice" wasn't fantastic. After, it was amazing. And I know both Randal and Kwame financially did incredible, they get better than the other show ...
JACKSON: It can't be.
DEAN: ... me on the show and did better than me financially. Why not recognize and be grateful for that opportunity than kind of spit on the individual who created all of this.
LEMON: OK, to your point and I just want to get to you, I didn't mean to cut you off because I want to put down Donald Trump's statement up.
LEMON: He said something similar to what you said Andy, he said, how quickly they forget. Nobody would know who they are if it weren't for me. I couldn't have been nicer or more respectful. They just want to get back into the limelight like they had when they were with Trump. Total dishonesty and disloyalty. They should be careful. I'll play hours of foot average them individually praising me. Ask how successful they've been since they left. Six failing wannabes out of hundreds of contestants. So sad! I gave Randall Pinkett the opportunity of a lifetime by selecting him as the Apprentice. He worked for me and did a terrible job.
PINKETT: Of course it's a terrible job now. So when I was being considered for lieutenant governor of New Jersey, who called me up and said, Randal I support your candidacy, and Andy knows this as well. Donald Trump.
So for now, Donald to characterize me a Rhodes scholar MIT Ph.D. Oxford, Rutgers as a failing wannabe. Now if that's not spin doctoring, I don't know what is. Now what we want to be clear though ...
DEAN: Everything nice.
PINKETT: We want to make clear, hold on Andy, let me finish, let me finish. We want to make clear is that we appreciate the opportunity that Donald gave us.
JACKSON: Without a doubt.
DEAN: All of us, thank you.
PINKETT: We acknowledge Donald's success as a businessman but the minute Donald goes from being a businessman to a political candidate, no pun intended, our loyalty to our country Trumps any history or relationship we have to Donald.
LEMON: So you aren't singling out ...
DEAN: Randal ...
LEMON: Hold on Andy. You saying ...
LEMON: ... you're not singling out him out as the man. You're singling out what he's doing as a presidential, can you separate the two, gentleman?
PINKETT: That is not Andy.
DEAN: We're not dumb. They're going after the man. But one second here. OK once again, these are six Democrats. I can produce a group 10 times the size. So there were six people that signed this letter and came out against Donald calling him a racist who are the liberal talking points are. Only three of them actually turned up at the event. So three people came to it.
I can produce a group of 50 apprentices tomorrow all supportive of Donald Trump. So we need a little balance here to understand what's happening here is, a yeah, of a group of over 200 former Apprentice contestants, we have a couple liberals coming out who don't like a conservative. To me this is a CNN breaking news.
LEMON: A responsible liberal thing, is it because you're liberal and he's conservative.
PINKETT: Not at all.
JACKSON: Why does being liberal or tag progressive or someone who's Democratic matter when you're speaking on behalf of your country. If you ...
DEAN: I don't think you make it seem like ...
LEMON: Hold on Andy. Hold on Andy.
JACKSON: It's not your turn.
JACKSON: Number one, I don't think blind loyalty is cute, and the fact that someone is now creating a toxic environment where people are acting out violence at your rallies and I don't know how you're going to spin that one. But if you go to the tape you'll see that's actually happening ...
DEAN: Give me second, I'll send it.
JACKSON: ... where someone, please do. And then also the fact that, you know, Mr. Trump doesn't know the issues. Mr. Trump has not produced issue papers of any substance on anything. Mr. Trump also ...
DEAN: Go to the website.
JACKSON: ... does not have the temperament to be president. You see someone who is petulant. Petulance doesn't equal presidency. You don't have a Twitter fight with ISIS, you don't have Twitter with Kim Jong-Il in North Korea, because someone picks on you. Is not only that but his response is just schoolyard bullying one-on-one.
LEMON: But Andy, let me ask you this, because they're not only coming out against Ted Cruz, they're not all coming out against John Kasich. So why is this is a conservative versus liberal thing? Maybe it's the -- they just don't like Donald Trump's message.
DEAN: Well I don't -- if I to guess, if we ask Kwame and Randal, I don't think that they particularly like Ted Cruz's politics either.
JACKSON: I do not.
DEAN: The reason why this is a story -- right thank you. Right to my point. The reason why this is a story ...
LEMON: Why not speak out against him then?
DEAN: Right. Well what's wrong -- I mean tell us about Ted Cruz.
JACKSON: Well, number one, I don't know Ted Cruz personally. Number two, I have not worked for him in a professional environment, number three Ted Cruz ...
DEAN: You haven't worked for Donald Trump either.
JACKSON: Yes I did.
DEAN: You didn't win.
PINKET: Right, but Andy I did work for him as well.
DEAN: Randal did for a year.
PINKETT: That's exactly right. And the different here, Andy, is that Donald has raised the stakes in this election to a level we have not seen before. And that has raised our concern. And the violence that we've seen, the behavior that we've seen, the rhetoric we seen is irresponsible. And we don't see that same level of irresponsibility from any political candidate in my memory. That's something you should be concerned about.
[21:25:02] LEMON: Stand by. I've got to take a break, Andy. I'll let you respond right after the break.
LEMON: Yes, don't go away.
LEMON: All right, so I'm back now with Kwame Jackson, Randal Pinkett and Andy Dean. So Andy, you were saying he -- Randal was talking about the violence at Trump rallies. Why not speak out about Ted Cruz but speak out against Donald Trump. And your response?
DEAN: OK, so -- thank you Don. So to the point of the violence and this is incredibly important, I've been to over 20 of these actual rallies. I don't know how many rallies that Kwame and Randal have been to. Then maybe they watch this stuff on TV, but at the rallies, it's made very clear over the microphone that the Trump supporters are not to touch the protesters as much as these protesters misbehave, and trust me they do.
Some of them are hippie Bernie Sanders people. Some of them are downright crazy agitators throwing up the middle finger. They're told not to touch them. Now when Donald Trump is speaking to 25,000 people, statistically, yeah, there going to be one or two people that go crazy. Donald Trump can't control them.
And so when the cameras play those one or two people acting out they make it seem as though Trump is condoning violence. We never condone violence and one last thing on this point.
[21:30:01] There's a great YouTube video of a Tucson police officer who went to a rally of Donald Trump's in Tucson, Arizona. And he's unbias guy, he went there, just want to see what was up. And he said the hatred of the protesters was just unbelievable and the level of restraint and respect amongst the Trump supporters was astounding. I encourage everybody to watch that video because it speaks for itself.
LEMON: He did say he'd punch them in the face or get them out of here and that sort of thing.
DEAN: Yeah, look, a little bit. But then he'll go on to say we can't do that or violence isn't good. So look he's -- look he's making a little joke and then says don't do that, no violence. He always has a preference or an ending to it.
PINKETT: But, Andy, that's the classic example of Donald's irresponsibility and what distinguishes him from every other candidate. For him to say it's OK to hit someone and I'll pay for your legal bills, that's irresponsible language. That's not presidential language and to say that it was a joke or oh he was just having an off the cuff moment, that's not what you expect from a candidate for president and that's why ...
LEMON: But his message has clearly hit a chord with many Americans, I mean he is a Republican front-runner. Why do you think he's resonating with so many voters and has so much support?
JACKSON: Well I think there's a culture of celebrity. I think that, you know, I talked about this Kennedy versus Kardashian continuum we are in right now as Americans. And I think that essentially this culture of celebrity about how many Instagram followers you have, how many likes you have on Twitter. There's a fascination with everything shiny and bright and people see that in Donald Trump and that's why he has followers, that's why he fans that give him that support.
LEMON: He has said many times that he wants to win over African- Americans, Hispanics. That their vote and he said these groups love him. Do you think African-Americans and Hispanics love him?
PINKETT: Well the -- as I would say the poll numbers would suggest otherwise, and it highlights a couple of things. First of all, Donald has a problem with minorities, and the Republican Party has a problem with minorities. And if Donald and Andy and others aren't getting the message that many of us are trying to deliver that your policies are not responsive to the needs of our communities, mathematically, you can't win this election. There has to be a way of opening up ...
DEAN: Well look the African-American community disagrees with you.
PINKETT: ... a bigger dialog -- can I finish, Andy, can I finish.
DEAN: Go ahead, go ahead.
PINKETT: That the campaign is more receptive, more responsive and more reflective of the entire diversity of Americans.
LEMON: Go ahead, Andy. DEAN: OK look, the African-American community cares about jobs like every single other community and they care about wages. And under eight years of Barack Obama, these wages haven't moved and that's why you're going to see Donald Trump do very well with the African- American community because they want an economic leader. And then one point to Kwame's point though, where he compares Donald Trump to a Kardashian, Donald Trump has made over 10 -- he's worth over $10 billion. You make it seem like he's like a Kardashian ...
JACKSON: Andy being rich don't make you right.
DEAN: It doesn't make any sense. His businesses speaks for itself.
JACKSON: Being rich don't make you right, Andy. That doesn't make your ideas progressive.
DEAN: Well no, it shows ...
JACKSON: That doesn't make your ideas have intellectual value.
DEAN: ... that you can build businesses.
JACKSON: So basically being rich equates that you should be president? Then Mitt Romney should be president. It does not equate with your value ...
DEAN: Now, well look Donald Trump is 50 times as rich as Donald Trump.
JACKSON: ... as a person. Your self worth does not equate with your net worth, Andy. And that's a lesson that America ...
DEAN: OK, thank you for that philosophical answer, thank you for that.
LEMON: So Andy, Andy let me ask you this. So, but I mean if you hear people -- we hear a lot of people saying -- we hear women, we hear a lot of different groups, a lot of different demographics saying that Donald Trump needs to change his tone. Do you think that there is some there-there where there's smoke, there's fire? Maybe he needs to change something?
DEAN: Well look, I'll tell you this. He had 17 opponents in the Republican primary. Now he's down to two opponents. So you have to do and say certain things which, you know, that's the reality of an election and he had to win the Republican primary. And then now he's going into general. This has been true since Abraham Lincoln ran for office. In the primary you move to the right and in the general you move to the center. So ...
LEMON: Andy, some people would have said he may be doing better now if he had not insulted so many different groups. His poll numbers might be better.
DEAN: Well see I think also ...
LEMON: He might have a clearer path than 1,237.
DEAN: Don, if I could. OK, Don if I could, I think a lot of this also is the way that the media reports on these remarks, because you hear what Kwame said that Donald Trump is against immigrants. What Donald Trump is always talking about at the boarder is illegal immigration.
When he's talking about a temporary halt on Muslim immigration, we're worried about terrorism because Syrian refugees and refugees in the Middle East shot up a concert hall in Paris. This isn't conspiracy theories. This is just Donald Trump being an intelligent individual. And over eight million Americans have voted for him. So for Kwame to compare him to some sort of Kardashian, he must think the American people are stupid. They're not stupid.
JACKSON: You're going back to the same point. At what point do you use the nuclear triad, Andy? At what point is that a good idea to bomb ISIS and use nuclear weapons that are 10 to 20 times more powerful than Hiroshima? How is that sensitive leadership?
DEAN: I have no problem with him using ...
JACKSON: You have no problem with him using the nuclear triad?
JACKSON: End of discussion.
DEAN: I think he can use all options to destroy ISIS. Any options to destroy ISIS.
LEMON: Before we leave -- before we leave, I want to get this in ...
DEAN: We want ISIS gone.
LEMON: Can you guys roll this? This is 2005. Look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Randal, you're hired.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:35:02] LEMON: And you won. And your life did change. Do you regret working or going on that show or working with Donald Trump?
PINKETT: No, I have no regrets having been on "The Apprentice." It was a great experience. Andy made a point which I completely agree. It opened a door and a platform for all of us. And the opportunity to work for Donald gave me insight to a multibillion-dollar organization to grown my firm, BCT Partners.
But having seen a lens into the Trump Organization and the lack of diversity at the executive levels and Andy can attest to this, all of the executives I've met with over the course of that year were like Andy, white men. The president of Trump University, white man, the president of Trump Institute, white male. And so the lack of diversity for me was troubling. And to me it's not ...
LEMON: That's not unlike many organizations ...
PINKETT: No, it's not, it's not ...
DEAN: That's not true.
PINKETT: But if Donald runs, if he runs the country like he runs his business, that is problem because America is diverse and we need a president who can be responsive to that diversity.
LEMON: All right, thank you guys I'm out of time. And Andy, we'll have you back. You can respond. You know you're always ...
DEAN: OK, I thought Carolyn Kepcher was a woman. She was a Trump executive.
LEMON: Thank you, thank you guys.
DEAN: OK, thank you.
JACKSON: Person of color.
PINKETT: Person of color, Andy. Color.
LEMON: Just ahead. Now that Bernie Sanders has released his tax return, will Hillary Clinton release transcripts of her Wall Street speeches?
[21:40:06] LEMON: Battle heating up between Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders with just four days to go, four days until the crucial New York primary.
Here to discuss it, CNN political contributor, Maria Cardona, who is a superdelegate committed to Hillary Clinton. Also former Ohio State Senator Nina Turner, a surrogate for Bernie Sanders and Errol Louis, Senior Political Commentator and Political Anchor of Time Warner New York One Cable News, who questioned the candidates during last night's the CNN Democratic Debate in Brooklyn. So thank you all for joining us. Great job last night Errol, right?
ERROL LOUIS, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Thank you.
LEMON: Don't you guys think he did a really good job.
MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: Yeah oh, he was terrific.
LEMON: The gloves were ...
CARDONA: Not an easy feet there.
LEMON: Yeah, the gloves really came off in this Brooklyn Debate last night. The tone was much more fiery, or fiery than the other debate. Again Errol, you are one of the questioners and you asked Hillary Clinton about the 1994 Crime Bill. Let's listen to part of her answer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: Well, I think that it had some positive aspects to it. And you mentioned some of them. The Violence against Women Act which has been a very important piece of legislation, in my opinion. And it also did some things which, you know, were to provide more opportunities for young people. So if we were to have the balance sheet on one side there are some positive actions and changes.
On the other side, there were decisions that were made that now we must revisit and we have to correct.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So she's been really under attack for her support of that Crime Bill in 1994. Did she help herself with an answer?
LOUIS: I think it's the only answer she could have given. And I was pressing her specifically to ask if she thought on balance that the ledger was on the side of, hey, I wish I hadn't done it, or did she think that there was anything she needed to apologize for because there were a number of demonstrators, Black Lives Matters, demonstrators and others who have said look this was horrible. Not just the fact of the bill and the impact of the bill, unintended consequences of the bill, but the language used to promote it.
And so this speech in which she used the word superpredator is really been sort of a flash point for a lot of that discussion. And Bernie Sanders has, you know, denounced the speech, although he ended up voting for the bill as well. The same sort of question ...
LEMON: He said he voted for it because of some of the things she mentioned. She said the Assault Weapons Ban and the Violence against Women Act and so on. So again both of them are saying similar things about it. She didn't he didn't actually vote for it but she did support it in her language.
LOUIS: That's right.
NINA TURNER, FMR OHIO STATE SENATOR: Yes.
LOUIS: And what really matters is how do you undo some of the damage.
LEMON: Same question to you, did she hurt or help herself with that?
TURNER: I mean it's kind of hard to justify that. I think the difference is Senator Bernie Sanders took to the floor in 1991 saying the same thing, that we need to deal with the root causes of crime. And he believes it's poverty. Again to vote -- violence against women, he's absolutely right. Had he voted against it, the Clinton campaign would be saying he voted against Violence against Women, the ban of assault weapons.
But the difference is this, he took to the floor again and said the Congress has an obligation to do a better job. He said education over electrocution. What he did not do is call African-American children or young people superpredators.
LEMON: Maria Cardona?
CARDONA: Well she clearly has apologized for using that term and said she regrets to using it. I think what she needs to focus on and what she has done plenty in the past and frankly what we should all be focused on is, what did she do to try to fix those intended consequences. And she talks about this a lot. When she was senator of New York one of the first things that she did was passed legislation to ban racial profiling.
She's also talked about banning the pipeline from school to prison and replacing it with pathways to opportunity from the cradle to career. And those are the things that she's focused on right now. Her very first speech this time around when she announced for president was on fixing the criminal justice system.
So I think those are the things that she's going to be focused on, has been focused on and will continue to talk about. And that's why, frankly, she's gotten the majority support of African-Americans around the country and Latinos and everyone who's concerned about criminal justice.
TURNER: Well the reason why the secretary has -- is enjoying what seems to be the majority, I mean Senator Sanders is picking up. She has a national profile and on there is some brand loyalty there. Apology is one thing and that's fair enough but there has been some generational impact to the African-American community. So as nobody can just have a cavalier attitude and say, well, well, they just apologize.
LEMON: I want to get to some of the other issues here and I talk about Wall Street now because it's -- Bernie Sanders, I mean he was a little sarcastic last night specifically about Hillary Clinton's ties to Wall Street and her highly paid speeches. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL SANDERS, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Secretary Clinton, you just heard her. Everybody else does it, she'll do it, I will do it. I am going to release all of the transcripts of the speeches that I gave on Wall Street behind closed doors. Not for $225,000, not for $2,000, not for $0.2. There were no speeches.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So the longer this goes on, and I'll ask the question that everybody wants to know. Maria, what is in those Goldman Sachs speeches? I mean what harm could she do by releasing them?
[21:45:09] CARDONA: Look, you know, this has become an issue where Bernie Sanders is focused on, but yet he has never really been able to point to any legislation, to any change of priority, to any proposal, to any flip-flop on her part that shows what clearly he has been insinuating for so many months now and impugning her integrity and her honesty which is that he believes that she is bought and paid for by Wall Street.
Don, you can't tell me if you really think, if we all think there was something damning in those speeches that it would not have come out by now. The audiences ...
LOUIS: So the question is, then why not it, right.
TURNER: Right, release them, yeah.
LOUIS: That's just ...
CARDONA: Well, well, because, frankly, I think she has a point. Why should she be held to a different standard? Let everybody release it. So many presidential candidates in the past and in this cycle have given those types of paid speeches. It's easy for Sanders to say, "Well I didn't give any paid speeches." Because he's not allowed to as a senator.
And so, you know, moving forward let's talk about what needs to be done to Wall Street to hold them accountable because she has the strongest plan.
LEMON: All right moving forward, I want you to listen to this. This is former president Bill Clinton, what he had to say about Wall Street today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL CLINTON, FMR PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: One of the few things I really haven't enjoyed about this primary, I think it's fine that all these youngsters that have been so enthusiastic for her opponent and sound so good, just shoot every third person on Wall Street and everything will be fine. But the truth is, there are 25,000 -- I mean 50,000 fewer people there today. The Dodd-Frank Act is working.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So former President Clinton later told MSNBC that he was joking, what's your reaction now?
LOUIS: Joking or not, I think all public officials have an obligation to take that kind of violence out of their language. Just to make sure. I do it in my own work. You know, writers will give me something saying one politician blasted another. And I'm like, no, let's take that out. They criticized another politician. No blasting, no hitting, no shooting back. None of that kind of stuff.
LEMON: Especially in a headline because people often read just the headline. I've noticed that now since I've been doing some editorial work. They just read the headline and they go from there, they don't read the substance in there, so I think you're right Errol.
Stick with me everyone. Up next, some surprises in the Democratic race as the candidates slug it out ahead of the New York primary. We'll be right back.
[21:51:12] LEMON: Four days until the big New York primary on the Democratic side. A new poll out today gives Hillary Clinton a 17- point advantage over Bernie Sanders in the Empire State.
Back with me now, Maria Cardona, Nina Turner and Errol Louis. I know what you're going to say, Nina. Polls have been wrong before.
TURNER: That's right, they have been.
LEMON: I knew you were going to say that. Hey, listen we were talking about the releasing of the speeches and it was an issue because, well Bernie Sanders release his taxes. He did release his taxes today. There didn't seem to be anything in there, so is there ...
LEMON: ... do you think that's more pressure on her to?
TURNER: I mean he's one of the poorer members of the Congress. He said there was nothing to see here. He released the taxes and I think that the Secretary should release the transcript.
LEMON: Yeah that's about $200,000.
CARDONA: He should release 15 years more of taxes though which is what Clinton has released.
TURNER: Well I mean she -- but she also been in the game in a different way for a long time. Senator Sanders is going to release the rest of them but I don't think there's a correlation between the taxes and the transcripts. Those are two different things.
Be transparent, release the transcripts and the Secretary is not running against Republicans right now. She's running against Senator Bernie Sanders. He has no transcripts, he released them right there on the stage. So the secretary -- for the sake of transparency let's just take all this speculation off the table, release the transcripts.
CARDONA: Well there's really no speculation other than perhaps Bernie Sanders supporters and frankly Republicans may try to use this, though there are -- they probably won't be able to because they also have been giving a lot of speeches to Wall Street. So again as long as everyone releases them I'm sure she's be happy to release them.
TURNER: But we have higher standards, Maria ...
CARDONA: She should not be held ...
TURNER: ... when we say ...
CARDONA: She should not be held ...
TURNER: ... than Republicans do, so she should release the transcripts ...
CARDONA: ... to a different standard.
TURNER: ... and not talk about the Republicans. Because we know the Republicans don't have a problem with Wall Street.
CARDONA: She should ...
TURNER: Democrats claim we do so the Secretary should've release the transcripts and be transparent with the American people about what she actually said.
CARDONA: She should not be held to a different standard. And frankly, the focus -- the focus should be on what she has actually done and her record shows and what she is going to do moving forward, her proposals show that she will be tough on Wall Street, tougher than Bernie Sanders herself.
TURNER: I don't think so. I mean Senator Sanders highlighted last night that she ...
LEMON: One at a time, please. One at a time, please. Go ahead Nina.
TURNER: When she told him to cut it out, he asked a very important question, was that before she took the money or after she took the money?
CARDONA: Yeah and that was a very snide comment that I think hides the fact he has absolutely zero proof and proven by Dana Bash, who did a fantastic job as well, when she asked point blank do you have any proof of connecting Hillary Clinton's speeches and what she has been paid for those speeches to anything that she has done legislatively to help Wall Street. And he was not ...
LEMON: The speeches were after she left office.
CARDONA: ... been able to come up with one thing.
TURNER: Right, but she still she just release the speeches. You know, there was a bankruptcy bill, Maria, which you may remember where then Professor Elizabeth Warren talked about this bill, it was the consumer -- it was an anti-bill for consumers. She had a meeting with then First Lady Hillary Clinton, at the time, who went back and convinced President Clinton to veto that bill.
And then when she got into the Senate, that same bill was reintroduced and her thought processes about that bill changed. She actually voted and supported for that bill. And ...
CARDONA: She voted in support of it because it helped ...
TURNER: ... as Senator Warren has said that bill was very bad for consumers. So there we go she had a different ...
LEMON: Let here respond, Nina. Let her respond.
CARDONA: She voted for that legislation because it included provisions that helped single moms be able to get out of their debt. So there were particulars in that bill that were very good. Then when that bill was completely changed and it came up for vote before or after that, she did not support it.
LEMON: I just have a short time let. Does any of this change anything at all, you've been sitting by patiently come Tuesday, come Tuesday.
LOUIS: I don't know I was trying to just determine from the debate last night, what an undecided voter, somebody coming to this with sort of fresh eyes and maybe not familiar with all the issues. What would they take away from this?
I think it comes back down to the same thing that they've been fighting about for months and fought about last night, which is that, he says she is close to the powerful interest that have hurt a lot of America. She says, he is unrealistic about his solution to that problem, and ...
[21:55:04] LEMON: So here we go again.
LOUIS: ... people's got to make that decision.
LEMON: Thanks you guys, appreciate it. Have a great weekend.
TURNER: Thank you.
LOUIS: You too.
CARDONA: Thank you, Don.
LEMON: We'll be right back.
LEMON: Refugees coming to America have often escape which one home countries hoping to build a better life here, but once they arrive a new battle begins. Refugees told an often struggle academically and socially to fit in, and that is something Luma Mofu (ph), this week's CNN hero understand.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LUMA MUFA (PH): There so many things that against them. For you to be successful you're competing against all these other people that already like 10 steps ahead of you. So how are you going to catch up, how are you going to stand out and how are you going to contribute successfully? We're getting people from all over the world, from all different faiths, to come together to do something great.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: If begins on a soccer field to see where it goes from there, you can watch Luma's (ph) full story at cnnheroes.com. And while you're there nominate someone you think should be a CNN 2016 hero.
Thank you so much for watching, have a great weekend, I'll see you right back here on Monday night.
[22:00:00] and if you missed any of our Brooklyn Democratic debate, you can see the whole thing starting right now. Goodnight.