Return to Transcripts main page

CNN NEWSROOM

Supreme Court Nominee; Fox Cancels Debate; Presidential Race. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired March 16, 2016 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:00:15] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Here we go. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Great to be with you on this Wednesday.

We begin with major news. President Barack Obama choosing a nominee for the United States Supreme Court today, setting the stage for a political showdown. Merrick Garland is his name. Just becoming the most talked out man in Washington.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I have fulfilled my constitutional duty. Now it's time for the Senate to do theirs. Presidents do not stop working in the final year of their term. Neither should a senator.

JUDGE MERRICK GARLAND, U.S. SUPREME COURT NOMINEE: Fidelity to the Constitution and the law has been the cornerstone of my professional life. And it's the hallmark of the kind of judge I have tried to be for the past 18 years. If the Senate sees fit to confirm me to the position for which I have been nominated today, I promise to continue.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: A U.S. Court of Appeals judge in the Washington, D.C. Circuit. He is now President Obama's choice to preplace the late Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia.

And let's be clear here, this announcement is sure to set off a major partisan war. It really already has. Senate Republicans have vowed already not to vet or hold hearings on the president's nominee and insist this decision should be made by the next president of the United States.

Let's begin with Evan Perez, our justice correspondent.

And so we know Garland supervised investigations in the Unabomber case, as well as the Oklahoma City bombing. Tell me more about him, a, and, b, what more reaction are you hearing from Republicans?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, Brooke, you know, if the Supreme Court justices had a pick for this open seat, they'd probably have picked Merrick Garland. That gives you a sense of how well regarded he is in the legal community here in Washington. He served 19 years on the D.C. Circuit and he has a centrist background. Someone who doesn't view his job as legislating from the bench. And that's one quality that President Obama, I think, hopes will make Republicans come around to giving him a vote in the Senate.

But on the Republicans, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, who controls the fate of Merrick Garland and this nomination, just from the sound of it, he's not ready yet to give the president what he wants. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R), MAJORITY LEADER: The next justice could fundamental alter the direction of the Supreme Court and have a profound impact on our country. So, of course, of course, the American people should have a say in the court's direction. It is a president's constitutional right to nominate a Supreme Court justice. And it is the Senate's constitutional right to act as a check on a president and withhold its consent.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREZ: So there you have it. We expect to hear a lot more about Merrick Garland and his backgrounds over the next several months. He's 63 years old. He was a partner at a big D.C. law firm here when he took a pay cut to become a lower level prosecutor at Justice Department, going after gangs in the inner city here in Washington. He oversaw the Oklahoma City bombing investigation, Brooke, and the prosecution of Timothy McVeigh. A case which won him so many admirers that to this day still respect him.

And back in 1997, he was confirmed by a vote of 76-23, including by seven senators who are still in the Senate. He's a friend of the chief justice, John Roberts. The two of them clerked together and served on the Appeals Court. And he's viewed as a safe choice for Obama. But he's also someone who, given his age and his relationships, he probably could be very influential pretty quickly on the high court, much faster than some of the younger candidates that the president interviewed. Now we're going to wait and see if he ever gets that chance, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Evan Perez, thank you for setting that up.

Let's have a broader conversation now. Carrie Severino is a chief counsel and policy director at Judicial Crisis Network. It's a group who opposes Judge Merrick Garland's nomination. And joining me momentarily, Gloria Browne-Marshall, a constitutional law professor. She will join us in just a second.

But, Carrie, to you first. I mean you just heard Evan sort of go through Merrick Garland's accolades and his, you know, thorough resume. But why don't you think he is the appropriate nominee?

CARRIE SEVERINO, CHIEF COUNSEL AND POLICY DIRECTOR, JUDICIAL CRISIS NETWORK: Well, as Leader McConnell stated it, the fundamental issue is, this is an unusual opportunity for the American people to have their voice heard and who will nominate in the next justice, and that's why the Senate ultimately is holding this seat open. Nominating Judge Garland doesn't really change that. He's - he's a reliable liberal vote. That's why the president nominated him. "The New York Times" says his presence in the court would make it the most liberal court in 50 years. That's not a surprise, especially when we look at his - his decisions on things like the Second Amendment, which he's hostile to, on deference to administrative agencies like the EPA, like the IRS, like the NLRB, kind of opening the door for a bureaucratic - more bureaucratic control of the government.

[14:05:14] I think those are all the sorts of things people are going to be concerned about because the president, at the end of the day, really just wants to cement a fifth, solid liberal vote on the supreme Court and Judge Garland would do that.

BALDWIN: So I hear you saying he would be a liberal vote despite the fact that we, you know, hear from President Obama that he considers him truly a consensus candidate. Let me also point out, Garland, back in 1997, was confirmed by the support of seven sitting Republicans, including the former chairman of the Judiciary Committee, Senator Orrin Hatch. This was Senator Hatch some years ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ORRIN HATCH (R), UTAH: Based solely on his qualifications, I support the nomination of Mr. Garland and I encourage my colleagues to do the same. To my knowledge no one, absolutely no one, disputes the following - Merrick Garland is highly qualified to sit on the D.C. Circuit. His intelligence and his scholarship cannot be questioned.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So how would you refute that?

SEVERINO: Well, look, Judge Bork was affirmed to the D.C. Circuit by a voice vote. Justice Thomas, same thing, a voice vote, including members who later went on to viciously attack both of those D.C. Circuit judges when they were appointed to the Supreme Court. And as we know, we got - we got a verb out of it. We got the word "borking" to describe that kind of hostile attack to a judicial nomination process. I think there's a very different role at the Supreme Court. You don't have to follow precedent. You have a much more open ability to interpret the Constitution how you see fit, not simply how the - the Supreme Court has said before. And I think that's the reason - it's a totally different ballgame when you're looking at a Supreme Court nomination.

BALDWIN: What - what about - but what about, though, I mean, the risks for Republicans to draw this line in the sand, especially when you think about, you know, vulnerable Senate Republicans who would be up for re-election, and voters saying, well, why the heck wouldn't you give this person, who seems extraordinarily qualified, a chance? How would you respond to that?

SEVERINO: I think that there's much more risk for them to move ahead with it. The reason we have a Republican Senate now is because the American people were fed up with President Obama's unconstitutional and aggressive executive actions. Pushing back on that is why - is why they elected a Republican Senate. And they are doing their job now by making sure that people have an opportunity to weigh in on this important issue. I think there's a lot of red state Democrats who have to be worried, especially when you look at his record on things like guns and on things like deferring to the EPA. Those are things that aren't going to play really well in some of those red states. I don't think people want their - even their Democratic senators to just be a rubber stamp for this president's nomination.

BALDWIN: OK, Carrie, thank you.

SEVERINO: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Here she is, Gloria Browne-Marshall, constitutional law professor, who's now joining me as well.

And so essentially Carrie was saying that Judge Garland would be a fifth liberal vote for President Obama and that's sort of the legacy perhaps that that would entail. And she is vehemently opposed to that, believes that Republicans should continue to draw the line in the sand, that that's appropriate. What do you think?

GLORIA BROWNE-MARSHALL, CONSTITUTIONAL LAW PROFESSOR: Well, the president was elected by the people. And I keep hearing the Republicans saying the people need a voice in this. And the people have spoken. They elected the president twice, two terms. So it's not the people who nominate the justice to the Supreme Court, it's the president, within his powers. And it's within the power of the Senate to, with advice and consent, to go through that nomination process to say, yes, we want this person, or, no, we don't. So it's not a matter of the people deciding whether or not this is the best nominee. It's for the Senate to do their job after the president has done the nomination.

BALDWIN: Just as we used a moments ago some sound from the late '90s from Senator Orrin Hatch on his supporting of Judge Garland to D.C., let me play some sound. This is what we're now hearing from senator Mitch McConnell, the Senate majority leader, going to the "Biden rule." This is when Biden was a senator at the time. Here he was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOE BIDEN (D), DELAWARE (1992): The Senate, too, Mr. President, must consider how it would respond to a Supreme Court vacancy that would occur in the full throws of an election year. It is my view that if the president goes the way of Presidents Fillmore and Johnson and presses an election year nomination, the senate Judiciary Committee should seriously consider not scheduling confirmation hearings on the nomination until ever - until after the political campaign season is over.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So there you have it. You know, Republicans right now pointing to a Democrat saying, well, hang on a second, he said this back in 1992. So can't that still apply in 2016? What say you? BROWNE-MARSHALL: Let's go all the way back to 1803 if we're going to start going back. That old case of Marbury versus Madison.

[14:10:02] BALDWIN: Yes.

BROWNE-MARSHALL: That was triggered because John Adams decided at the last minute, when he lost re-election, that he would sign all of these different job commissions, and that's where William Marbury comes in and he's suing James Madison because he didn't get the job. There's not the issue before John Marshall as to whether or not John Adams could have done this. The issue was whether or not Thomas Jefferson was doing what he was supposed to do in not allowing that Marbury to have the judgeship. So this issue of going all the way back to a president in the later months, right at the end of their term, allowing judges to take these positions goes way back, further than 1992.

BALDWIN: Gloria Browne-Marshall with her history. Miss constitutional law professor, I appreciate you and I tip my hat to you, and to you as well, Carrie Severino, chief council and policy director, Judicial Crisis Network. Two opinions both need to be heard today. Thank you so much.

I want to get you now to some breaking news here.

After a big night for Donald Trump, big news about what would have been the next debate with his Republican opponents. Let's go to Dylan Byers, senior reporter for media and politics here at CNN, live in Los Angeles.

Monday's debate, canceled. What happened?

DYLAN BYERS, CNN SENIOR REPORTER FOR MEDIA AND POLITICS: It's not happening anymore. And the reason it's not happening, frankly, is because Donald Trump decided to pull out. And by pulling out, he led John Kasich to decide to pull out, which leaves, of course, only Ted Cruz on stage. Ted Cruz has said he would be willing to debate either Kasich or Trump or both. But, of course, as the EVP of Fox News just said in a statement, obviously you can have a debate if there's only one candidate on stage.

What we were told by Fox News sources earlier, as well as by the general manager of the venue in Salt Lake City, was that no debate would be happening. So now that was supposed to be the 13th debate that the Republicans were going to have this cycle. It was an especially important debate given that we've whittled the field down to just three candidates. And there's a big question about what this campaign looks like going forward between Donald Trump, Ted Cruz, and John Kasich. And that's a debate that we're not going to have.

BALDWIN: So, you know, do we know why Donald Trump pulled out initially?

BYERS: Right. So Donald Trump pulled out precisely for the same reason he pulled out of the January 28th Fox News debate. He doesn't believe that he needs these debates in order to advance his own campaign. So much of the campaign that he's been running for nine months has been based on playing by his own rules. When things are politically advantageous to him, he does them. And when they're not, he doesn't.

Look, he - we're facing - the next few weeks we're going to see Ted Cruz make a hard case that he should be the alternative to Donald Trump. That Donald Trump is not a person that Republicans can trust in the White House or even for the Republican nomination. Donald Trump doesn't want to face that on stage. He believes it's more advantageous to him to stay off of it.

BALDWIN: All right, Dylan Byers, thank you for that. Again, no debate Monday night. Appreciate it.

Next, speaking of Donald Trump, he says there will be riots if he is denied a nomination at the convention. We'll talk to his senior adviser about that and so much more.

Plus, former presidential candidate and former congresswoman Michele Bachmann will join me. You know she's been a little quiet for a while, but she will join me on Donald Trump, this U.S. Supreme Court fight, and Hillary Clinton. Don't miss this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:17:25] BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you for being with me.

In this race for the White House, we have gone from Super Tuesday to wake up Wednesday. The Republican Party must now come to terms with the designate math which shows a contested convention perhaps as likely as ever. While Trump swept in three states Tuesday, his loss to Governor John Kasich in his home state of Ohio means this, that Trump has to do better than he has been at winning delegates from here on out, getting more than 50 percent of the delegates remaining. It's not impossible, it's not, but is it improbable? That is really what's up for debate here.

Still, there is no denying that Donald Trump had a stellar super Tuesday despite more than $40 million in negative ads against him and condemnation for violence at his rallies. His double-digit lead in Florida ousted native son Marco Rubio. He's gone, out of the race. He suspended his campaign last night. And the state of Missouri poised to cap Trump victories. The race is too close to call right now, but Trump is beating Cruz. You see the numbers there. Super, super tight.

So is Donald Trump prepared for a contested Republican convention? Here's what he told Chris Cuomo on "New Day."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (voice-over): If we're, you know, 100 short and we're at 1,100 and somebody else is at 500 or 400, because we're way ahead of everybody, I don't think you can say that we don't get it automatically. I think it would be - I think you'd have riots. I think you'd have riots. You know we have - we're - I'm representing a tremendous - many, many millions of people. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Joining me now, Trump's senior adviser Sarah Huckabee Sanders, who's the daughter of former presidential candidate Mike Huckabee, former Arkansas governor as well.

Sarah, so nice to have you on. Welcome.

SARAH HUCKABEE SANDERS, DONALD TRUMP'S SENIOR ADVISER: Thank you for having me.

Let me ask you about what Mr. Trump just said in a moment. But, you know, listen, as we mentioned, you're the daughter of Mike Huckabee. You have long been your dad's top - one of your dad's top advisors. Politics is in your blood. You know, you've been around Donald Trump as an adviser for some weeks now. I'm just curious, on a personal level, what has surprised you most in working with him so closely?

SANDERS: I think just what a genuine guy he is and mostly I think the thing I like most is the relationship he has with his family. Given somebody who's extremely close with my dad, I love the relationship that he has with his daughter, Ivanka, and both of his sons, and getting to see that behind the scenes and see just how special that relationship is has been, I think, a really unique and great thing to - that a lot of people may not get to be privy to, other than on the main stage.

[14:20:02] BALDWIN: Well, on the stage, you know, flanked by some family members there, big wins for team Trump last night. Normally, you know, on an evening after a Super Tuesday or after a weekend he stands up there and he essentially says, you know, to his rivals, get out of the race. But this time, of note, he encouraged Cruz and Kasich to stay in. Do you know why?

SANDERS: You know, I think they've made it very clear that they don't anticipate going anywhere any time soon. And I think that Donald Trump is far from afraid of them and says if you want to stay in, stay in, but I'm planning on getting all the delegates I need before the convention and locking up a win and becoming the Republican nominee. And if you want to be in and be part of that, that's fine, but I don't think that they're going to stand in his way. I think that was kind of the point he was making is, either be in or be out, it really doesn't matter, I'm still going to be nominee at the ends of the day.

BALDWIN: OK. You just heard him talking to Chris Cuomo this morning on "New Day" talking about potential riots, you know, in Cleveland if he doesn't have this nomination or if they don't give it to him if he's - if he's close enough. And then he's been, you know, under fire recently for not toning down the temperature or the rhetoric, violence at some of his rallies. You know, do you - do you think when he mentioned riots, Sarah, is that really the right choice of words?

SANDERS: You know, I think, at the end of the day, last night Donald Trump tripled his delegate lead from the time - from the previous day. And so, honestly, I don't think it's going to matter. I think he's going to get the magic number of 1,237 before we get to the convention. And I don't think that that's going to be an issue. I do think that there is this tremendous pushback -

BALDWIN: But - but numbers aside, was that appropriate?

SANDERS: You know, I think he's probably exactly right. I think that there will be an outrageous amount of pushback if the D.C. establishment tries to continue to take this race away from Donald Trump. I think he's proven time and time again, the American people are rallying around him and it's time that the rest of the Republicans get on board and stop trying to make this fight an inner party fight and start focusing our attention where we need to, and that's on Hillary Clinton.

BALDWIN: Speaking of, speaking of, we saw this video that the Trump campaign posted on his Instagram today. I know you've seen it. Let me play it for everyone else.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ON SCREEN TEXT: When it comes to facing our toughest opponents -

The Democrats have the perfect answer.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: (barking)

VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT: (laughing)

ON SCREEN TEXT: We don't need to be a punchline.

Trump. Make America great again!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: All right. So, thus far, until today, Sarah, you know, Trump has been saying, I haven't even started in on Hillary Clinton yet. Is this, with that video, officially day number one?

SANDERS: You know, I think that we're certainly moving in that direction. I think Ted Cruz finally got something right last night when he said that this is a two-man race and I think it's down to Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton. And Donald Trump is going to be the Republican nominee and I think go on to win the presidency in November. And I think that this is only the beginning of that campaign to start that's going to carry through the fall.

BALDWIN: The Hillary Clinton laughter - or, rather, the Hillary Clinton barking and the Vladimir Putin laughter, I mean, is this the tone that your campaign is going to take for the next six months?

SANDERS: You know, I think that Donald Trump has made it extremely clear the type of issues that he cares about. And the American people have certainly recognized that and have rallied around that and continue to come out in massive numbers and support him. And so I think that we're going to see a lot of different things. And I think the biggest thing that we're going to see is a drastic contrast between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump and the other candidates. He's the only one that's not completely controlled by the Washington to Wall Street axis of power both on the Democrat and Republican side and we're going to see him come in, break that up, and draw that contrast, not just today but every day moving forward until we, you know, win the White House in November.

BALDWIN: You know, on the contrast, of course, you know, Trump campaign looking ahead, as you mentioned, with Hillary Clinton. Hillary Clinton used to be secretary of state. She's logged some miles. Contrasting with Mr. Trump, this morning he was on MSNBC and he was asked about who he consults with on foreign policy. And his answer was this, verbatim. Quote, "I'm speaking with myself, number one, because I have a very good brain and I've said a lot of things, so I know what I'm doing and I've listened to a lot of people." He's having a little bit of trouble answering this question. He keeps getting this question. Sarah, is he getting advice? I mean why has he yet to assemble a team?

SANDERS: You know, I know he's talked to several different military experts. He's had several that have come out and endorsed him. People like J.D. Gordon and others over the last several weeks. And I think he'll continue to expand that circle and, again, I think as he draws closer to looking up the nomination and setting his sights on Hillary Clinton, you'll see a lot more specifics on national security and foreign policy moving forward as we get into the general election.

[14:25:15] BALDWIN: Sarah Huckabee Sanders, thank you so much for your time. Come back. Thank you.

SANDERS: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Thank you.

SANDERS: Absolutely.

BALDWIN: Coming up, former presidential candidate Congresswoman Michele Bachmann, she will join me. We'll get her thoughts on this 2016 race, including, of course, frontrunner Donald Trump and President Obama's pick for the U.S. Supreme Court. My conversation with the congresswoman, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:30:09] BALDWIN: We're at the bottom of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

The road to the White House is becoming increasingly clear