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Trump Defiant Over Controversial Muslim Ban; Trump Playing into Americans' Fears?; World's Muslims React to Trump Remarks; New Details about California Shooters; California Female Shooter Radicalized at Least Two Years Ago; Trump's Rise Defies Conventional Political Wisdom; Chicago Judge to Rule on Releasing Police Shooting Video. Aired 1-2a ET
Aired December 9, 2015 - 01:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[01:00:12] JOHN VAUSE, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: This is CNN NEWSROOM live from Los Angeles.
Ahead this hour from around the world to inside the Republican Party, growing outrage over Donald Trump's plan to ban Muslims from entering the United States. Still, the Republican frontrunner is not backing down.
Also ahead, CNN takes you to Pakistan to trace the roots of the woman responsible for the deadly shooting rampage in California.
An activist in Chicago fights to get a video release that they say shows the shooting and killing of an unarmed African-American teenager.
Hello, everybody. Great to have you with us. We'd like to welcome our viewers in the United States and all around the world. I'm John Vause. NEWSROOM L.A. starts now.
U.S. presidential candidate Donald Trump is not giving any ground on his proposal to ban Muslims from entering the United States. His suggestion has been met with nearly universal condemnation. But as Dana Bash reports, the Republican frontrunner just keeps piling on.
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR, NEW DAY: This isn't about being politically correct.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: But we have a problem in this country and we should solve it because you can have many more World Trade Centers if you don't solve it. Many, many more. And probably beyond.
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Never mind backing down, Donald Trump is doubling down on a plan to block Muslims from entering America.
TRUMP: A total and complete shutdown.
BASH: Even in the face of unprecedented fury within his own party, from the Republican House speaker --
REP. PAUL RYAN (R), HOUSE SPEAKER: Normally, I do not comment on what's going on in the presidential election. I will take an exception today. This is not conservatism.
BASH: To the Republican Senate leader.
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R), MAJORITY LEADER: This suggestion is completely and totally inconsistent with American values.
BASH: To former Vice President Dick Cheney, revered by conservatives for pushing tough tactics to keep Americans safe after 9/11.
RICHARD CHENEY, FORMER U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: This whole notion that somehow we can just say no more Muslims, just ban all religion, goes against everything we stand for and believe in.
BASH: Voters in today's New Hampshire poll say Trump is the best candidate to take on ISIS. Just like Monday's CNN-ORC poll in Iowa. On CNN's "NEW DAY" he was eager to defend his new plan.
TRUMP: I'm talking about a temporary situation until our country's representatives can figure out what the hell is going on.
BASH: Even Republican Party chair Reince Priebus who tries to stay out of the GOP presidential fight weighed in saying, "I don't agree, we need to aggressively take on radical Islamic terrorism, but not at the expense of our American values."
That, months after Priebus convinced all of Trump's competitors to pledge to support him if he is the nominee making it awkward as they slammed him now.
JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's not about the blowhards out there just saying stuff. That's not a program. That's not a plan. This is serious business.
CARLY FIORINA (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald Trump always plays on everyone's worst instincts and fears.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know how you make America great again? Tell Donald Trump to go to hell.
BASH (on camera): As for Trump he is making noises again about a GOP nightmare scenario -- an independent Trump candidacy. He tweeted that if he launched a third-party bid, he vast majority of his supporters would back him and not the GOP nominee.
Dana Bash, CNN, Washington.
VAUSE: In the past, whenever Donald Trump made some kind of outrageous statement, the Republican leadership and his rivals mostly tried to avoid a direct confrontation, but not this time. Even so, Mr. Trump spent most of Tuesday seemingly unmoved by the firestorm of criticism he started.
Jeffrey Lord is a CNN political commentator or Trump supporter, and the former political director of the Reagan administration. He joins us now from Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.
Jeffrey, thank you for being with us. Now on Monday Trump's campaign said that the ban would apply to American citizens, Muslims who were abroad. On Tuesday he suggested there may be citizenship exception. Also on Tuesday he told ABC the ban would be very short. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARBARA WALTERS, ABS NEWS: What is short term?
TRUMP: It could be very quickly if our country could get its act together. We don't know what's happening. We have a president that doesn't have a clue. We don't know what's happening. We need toughness and smartness. And we have to do it quickly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Is Mr. Trump now trying to walk this back or is this an indication that the policy or the plan wasn't particularly well thought out to begin with?
JEFF LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, I don't think it's either. I mean, I think he said right from the beginning this would be something temporary until we could get our act together. I mean, there's just no question, we have a problem here. We have 14 people dead in San Bernardino. I mean, whatever we're doing right now is not working. And I think the American people are acutely aware of this and I think they're very concerned about it.
[01:05:05] VAUSE: There is just such a wide condemnation, though, as coming from the Republican Party. And conservative commentator Brian Cade said that -- he said this, "Mr. Trump's remarks show he doesn't want to take over the Republican Party. He wants to burn it to the ground from the inside."
LORD: There was this incredible chasm between the base of the Republican Party and the leadership which has been there for quite some time. And their response in this kind of thing, to in essence say that all of Donald Trump's supporters are nothing but a bunch of, you know, racist, xenophobic, you know, bigots is a terrible thing to say. It's politically stupid. And it's also untrue.
VAUSE: Since launching his campaign, Mr. Trump has offended not only Muslims, the disabled, Mexicans, Jews, Seventh Day Adventists, Asians, women, POW -- POWs. It's not exactly Reagan's --
LORD: Yes. What you're talking about, John, is political correctness. And this has gotten way out of control in this country. This is now dangerous. This is now dangerous. When you look at the situation where the Ft. Hood shooter, and again, this is something I went back and looked at. There were people in the military who said they tried to flag this but they were rejected because of political correctness, that they just didn't want to say anything about Major Nidal and his attraction to, you know, Islamic radicalism because somehow, you know, it just wasn't politically correct. And we wound up there with 13 people dead on an American military base in the middle of Texas. This is very, very dangerous.
VAUSE: A similar point was raised in San Bernardino. There were people who said that they thought something was up. They didn't want to say anything because they didn't want to be tagged a bigot. Surely there's a middle ground between banning all Muslims from entering the United States and getting people to speak up.
LORD: Well, sure. I mean, the thing that I just find bizarre, the notion that Donald Trump is anti-Muslim, he's not anti-Muslim. He is anti-Islamic radicalism. I mean, I don't know what's going on where you are, but here in Pennsylvania, I'm seeing campaign commercials all the time for Jeb Bush in which he says the problem is radical Islam. Well, yes, that's it exactly. That's what Donald Trump is saying. That is, I think, what most of the Republican candidates are saying. It's not what President Obama is saying.
VAUSE: Well, if he said --
LORD: It's not what Hillary Clinton is saying.
VAUSE: It sounds to me it's not the problem with radical Islam, at least for Donald Trump. It's a problem with every Muslim because every Muslim is going to be banned.
LORD: No. No, no, no. 100 percent, 100 percent, myself included, are the descendant of people who came here, who immigrated here. We are all descendants of immigrants. Donald Trump is married to an immigrant. He is the son and grandson of immigrants. He is not opposed to immigration. He's not opposed to Muslims. He is opposed to radical Islam. We have a problem. He's put it on the table where no one else wanted to really deal with it and now we're having a discussion. That's a very good thing.
VAUSE: OK. Jeffrey, we are certainly having that discussion. Thank you for being here. We appreciate it.
LORD: Yes. And thank you, John. I appreciate it.
VAUSE: Well, critics say Donald Trump is simply playing to Americans' fears, telling voters the country is at risk from all kinds of outsiders.
Sunlen Serfaty has more now from Washington.
TRUMP: Bad is happening. Something bad is happening and we can't be the stupid ones.
SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's an alarmist tone embedded in nearly every Donald Trump speech.
TRUMP: Something really dangerous is going on.
SERFATY: While his slogan is --
TRUMP: Make America great again.
SERFATY: The subtext seems to be Americans are not safe right now. On the campaign trail and in interviews, Trump punches up the drama.
TRUMP: It sounds cold and it sounds hard. We have a country. Our country is going to hell.
SERFATY: Shocking declarations and dark imagery.
TRUMP: When you have ISIS and others that want to blow up our country.
SERFATY: Sounding the alarm to turn the fear in American's minds right now into something more imminent and even more ominous.
TRUMP: We have people out there that want to do great destruction to our country. Whether it's 25 percent or 10 percent or 5 percent, it's too much. They want our buildings to come down. They want our cities to be crushed. They are living within our country.
SERFATY: It's a strategy that Trump has relied on since the day he announced his campaign, warning about undocumented Mexican immigrants.
TRUMP: And they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists.
SERFATY: On Syrian refugees, raising concerns that terrorists might infiltrate those seeking resettlement in the U.S.
TRUMP: Then I said to myself, wow, they're all men. There are all men. You look at it. There are so few women. And there are so few children. And not only are they men, they're young men and they're strong as can be. They're tough-looking cookies.
[01:10:02] SERFATY: Now Trump calling for a complete shutdown of Muslims' entry in the United States.
TRUMP: The whole thing with -- we have to stop, the Muslims, until we find out what's going on. Does that make sense, by the way?
SERFATY: To be sure, fear and uncertainty are big factors in this election with terrorism and national security top concerns for voters. Four in 10 Republicans say Trump is the candidate who they think could be the most effective at solving the country's problems. Suggesting that not only dire warnings, but his trademark tough talk.
TRUMP: We're going to be so vigilant. We're going to be so careful. We're going to be so tough and so mean and so nasty.
SERFATY: Maybe falling on receptive ears. TRUMP: And that's why every time there is a tragedy, everything goes
up. My numbers go way up. Because we have no strength in this country. We have weakness. We have weak, sad politicians.
SERFATY (on camera): And that may be one of the biggest reasons why we've seen this sort of rhetoric from Donald Trump. It seems to be working among voters, really playing to the uncertainty and the fear that are especially on voters' minds right now in the wake of the Paris and San Bernardino attack.
Sunlen Serfaty, CNN, Washington.
VAUSE: We're joined now by Imam Yahya Ibrahim. He is an Islamic chaplain, an educator at the University of Western Australia and Curtin University. He lectures to Muslims and non-Muslims about Islam. He joins us via Skype from Perth, Australia.
Yahya, thanks for being with us. I want to share with you, though, a tweet from Chemi Shalev, he is the U.S. editor of the Israeli newspaper " Haaretz," and he tweeted this out, "ISIS dreams of an Islam-hating America that isolates its own Muslims. Trump is busy making their dreams come true."
Is he right?
IMAM YAHYA IBRAHIM, ISLAMIC CHAPLAIN: He's absolutely right. I think one of the things that we need to be very careful about is lumping groups together. And excluding Muslims from the group that is fighting against those who seek harm to humanity. One of the things as well that is quite divisive is that, you know, the comments by Mr. Trump seem to put Muslim all as one group, one conglomerate while we're a rainbow of cultures and a variety of expressions. And it shows a lack of sophistication of what really the world is all about and it seems to indicate that he's really out of touch with the rest of what's happening in the world.
He doesn't really understand that a Muslim in Turkey does not necessarily have to be the same as a Muslim in Nigeria in how they express their attributes of Islam and some of the values that we share as human beings are intrinsic to all of us. Not just particular segments of us. It's not just simply about Muslim or not.
VAUSE: So, Yahya, Donald Trump, he's not an elected official. He's not the Republican nominee for president. His proposal to ban Muslims from the U.S. is not U.S. policy. It has never been U.S. policy. So explain to me, why are his words carrying so much weight right now all around the world?
IBRAHIM: I don't think it's carrying weight in people agreeing with him. I think that, you know, one of the most telling signs is if you do a quick search, people are referring to him as a fascist, unhinged, people are asking who said this, was it Donald Trump or Adolf Hitler? You know, that's not the kind of framework that you want. And the White House was quite -- you know, quick in condemnation and actually asking, should he even be qualified for standing for a nomination to represent the country that the world has seen as a leader for a great part of the last century.
VAUSE: Yes. I didn't mean that people are actually agreeing with him. I just thought that his words are creating so much outrage. But, you know, this is a man who has yet to even pass the first test to get to the White House. He's yet to even get the nomination for the Republican Party.
IBRAHIM: Look, definitely, anything that is over the top, defiant, seeking to spread people apart, seeking to find that little tear in the fabric of society and rip it apart, resonates with certain circles of people and of course the media does latch on to that. And it's one of the reasons that, you know, you give myself and other commentators a platform to discuss it. But the underlying fact is that most people abhor that kind of commentary. The decent American does not see another fellow American as a traitor, does not see someone who wants to visit their country, whether for tourism or business, as a traitor.
In fact, what we might want to be asking is, what do you say about a person who then goes to people he wants to exclude and invest in their countries? Surely, you would want to suspend your investments and states in the Middle East if you're so distrusting of them. How would it be so acceptable to profit from such impure sources where you can't allow people access into your own country?
Further, I think it's really, really deplorable that, you know, a person who has hallmarks in capitalism has sunk to such a low that it's, you know, has alienated one of the greatest markets that he seeks to turn to and --
[01:15:14] VAUSE: Well, I'm guessing -- he's not thinking about business right now. I guess he's talking politics. But it does seem that Mr. Trump has tapped into a real feeling of fear and anxiety here in the United States. Many Americans are simply terrified of another terrorist attack. Can you understand that fear however misdirected it may be?
IBRAHIM: Absolutely. And this is why myself and many other of my colleagues, Americans and Canadians and all around the Western world, all around the eastern world, it is -- we see it as a religious obligation to be that thin line between those who seek all of us harm, not just non-Muslims harm. We must understand that those who have been harmed by the criminality and the barbarity are those who've experienced it firsthand where Muslims initially and intrinsically.
And we need to also step back a little bit further and understand that, you know, certain disastrous foreign policy initiatives that were built on absolute lies that would later come out, you know, such as the Iraq war and things like that, were the primary catalyst for putting us in the position that we're in today. So it's important for us to look at things from a holistic perspective and not just see to score points with the vast, vast minority of Americans and good citizens of the United States of America. It's important for us to bring people together, to bridge the gap, to
recognize the things that separate us are far, far less than the things that hold us together. And one of the most important institutions that de-radicalizes or prohibits radicalization and is a proven, you know, paper after paper and research after research is religiousness and attendance to mosques and people knowing, you know, their faith in structures and having a qualified leader in faith lead them through text that can be manipulated by those who seek harm.
VAUSE: OK. Imam Yahya Ibrahim, I have to leave it there. We're out of time, but thank you for your thoughts and your insights into this issue. Thanks for being with us.
IBRAHIM: It's my pleasure. Thank you.
VAUSE: Still to come here on NEWSROOM L.A., we'll take a look at how Trump's insults and inflammatory statements have worked for him and has worked against him in the polls.
Plus, more revelations about the killers in that California massacre.
[01:21:33] VAUSE: Welcome back, everybody. Investigators now believe the couple who murdered 14 people at a holiday party in California had become radicalized jihadis years ago. But their loved ones never knew. It's the latest of several revelations about the killers.
Pamela Brown has the details.
PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The path to radicalization for this California couple began long before they committed mass murder in San Bernardino, according to the FBI. In fact two U.S. officials tell CNN there are indications their transformation into jihadis began even before ISIS emerged on to the world stage in June 2014, making it difficult to determine exactly who inspired them and who might have helped them.
AKI PERITZ, FORMER CIA OFFICER: Had this couple carried out this attack let's say two years ago or a year ago, they might have glommed on to another organization. But it happened to be that ISIS is the biggest, baddest organization on the block, and so they carried out in their name. Whether they actually were part of that, it's unclear.
BROWN: A law enforcement official tells CNN Syed Farook at one point had explored reaching out to al Qaeda affiliate al-Nusra and al- Shabaab.
A Facebook post on an account associated with his Farook's wife, Tashfeen Malik, pledged allegiance to ISIS and used the word "we," indicating the message represented both attackers.
Just days before they killed 14 people, Farook went to this firing range in Riverside, California. A firearms instructor there tells CNN Farook brought his own AR-15 assault weapon to practice.
JOHN GALLETTA, RIVERSIDE MAGNUM GUN RANGE: You can't tell who comes to the range. He presented what appears to be a valid idea and came in and acted the way he normally does -- the way normal people act. Coming to this range.
BROWN: The FBI is now reviewing surveillance video from the gun range and also looking into this man, Enrique Marquez, Farook's friend and former neighbor. Investigators say the two assault rifles the couple used in the attack traced back to Marquez. He has not been charged with any crime.
JOHN D'ANGELO, ATF ASSISTANT SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE: Right now, our major concern, the FBI, ATF, and the JTTF, is determining how those firearms, the rifles in particular, got from Marquez to Farook and Malik.
BROWN: Two U.S. officials say Malik seemed proficient with the AR-15 she used during the massacre and believe she received some level of training.
The couple's family maintains they had no idea Farook and Malik had become jihadis, even though Farook's mother lived with them in the house investigators have called a virtual bomb-making lab.
DAVID S. CHESLEY, ATTORNEY FOR FAROOK'S FAMILY: Syed and Tashfeen, they were very isolated and, honestly, the family was completely surprised and devastated. But no one had any knowledge. If anybody would have, they definitely would have done something to stop it.
BROWN: Pamela Brown, CNN, Washington.
VAUSE: The couple may have kept to themselves in the United States, and those who knew Tashfeen Malik at a university in Pakistan say she seemed to be an earnest and engaging student.
Here's CNN's Saima Mohsin.
SAIMA MOHSIN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Al-Huda, a women's institute that teaches its own conservative and ultra orthodox version of Islam. And San Bernardino shooting suspect Tashfeen Malik studied here. A spokeswoman for Al-Huda gave me a telephone interview.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was reading just the Quran, that means understanding of the text and word-for-word (INAUDIBLE).
[01:25:01] MOHSIN: But she didn't complete her course. In April last year, Al-Huda said she announced she had to leave, that she would be getting married in two months' time.
(On camera): Teachers here inside that I've spoken to weren't willing to appear on camera, but they have given CNN a statement, describing Tashfeen Malik as a hard-working, helpful, obedient and positive- minded student. They said that no one here could ever have imagined that she could be behind what they describe as a horrible act that's 100 percent against Islamic teachings and the teachings of the institute.
She never raised any suspicions that she might be --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, no, no, not at all. Not at all.
MOHSIN: You didn't see any idea that she was, perhaps, developing a previous mindset --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, no, no. Nobody would even think about her that way. She was a --
MOHSIN (voice-over): But critics and former students of the institute Al-Huda's ultra conservative values promote an arrogant and isolationist viewpoint. Could this be a stepping stone to radicalization?
FAIZA MUSHTAQ, ASSISTANT PROFESSOR AND AL-HUDA EXPERT: What they learn in these classes is that actually there is one correct interpretation of Islam. In that sense, the world view that these women are learning in Al-Huda, that can be intolerant and judgmental. But nowhere in the Al-Huda curriculum is there any sort of space or anything which condones let alone advocates militancy.
MOHSIN: Al-Huda itself has condemned the attack and says it can't be held for a student's acts as an individual.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is inhuman. This is not allowed in Islam. It's against Islamic teachings.
MOHSIN: The teachings at Al-Huda don't seem to be enough to complete the picture of Tashfeen Malik's alleged radicalization. This is only one piece of a very complicated jigsaw puzzle that has pieces here in Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and the United States.
Saima Mohsin, CNN, Multan, Pakistan.
VAUSE: Next here on CNN NEWSROOM L.A., Donald Trump, his insults and his rising poll numbers. We'll take a look at how his outspoken comments defy political wisdom.
[01:30:50] VAUSE: Welcome back, everybody. You're watching CNN NEWSROOM live from Los Angeles. It's just on 10:30 on Tuesday night. I'm John Vause. The headlines this hour.
And Donald Trump is warning there may be more terror attacks n United States if his ban on Muslim immigration is not put into place. Getting widespread condemnation of the Republican Party candidate, Trump emphasizes the ban would be temporary.
Presidential rivals called him a demagogue, others have said he's a fascist. But Jeff Zeleny reports, none of it is changing Trump's position.
JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT (V0): Defiance today from Donald Trump.
DONALD TRUMP, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & CEO, TRUMP ORGANIZATION (voice-over): We need intelligence in this country. We need a certain toughness in this country or we're going to end up like a lot of other places and we're not going to have a country left.
ZELENY: In the face of unrelenting political backlash, Trump defended his proposal on CNN "New Day" seeking to go block Muslims from coming to the United States.
TRUMP: You're going to have many more World Trade Centers if you don't solve it, many, many more, and probably beyond.
ZELENY: An overheated campaign season suddenly even hotter with Republicans rushing to join Democrats in condemning Trump.
PAUL RYAN, (R-WI), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: This is not conservativism. What was proposed yesterday is not what this party stands for and, more importantly, it's not what this country stands for.
ZELENY: Trump said his ban on Muslims would be temporary. He called it a mother day version of FDR's action towards the Japanese in World War II. He announced his proposal last night on the deck of the "USS Yorktown," a battleship from that war.
TRUMP: Donald J. Trump is calling for a complete and total shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what the hell is going on.
ZELENY: His comments grew instant fire from GOP rivals.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM, (R), SOUTH CAROLINA & PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He's a race-baiting xenophobic religious bigot. He doesn't representatives my party, the values the men and women wearing the uniform are fighting for.
JEB BUSH, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & FORMER FLORIDA GOVERNOR: What we shouldn't do is to just say all Muslims are not coming into our country. It's not about the blowhards out there just saying stuff. That's not a program. That's not a plan. This is serious business.
ZELENY: Former Vice President Dick Cheney also weighed in, calling it a violation of a religious freedom.
DICK CHENEY, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This whole notion that somehow we can just say no more Muslims, just ban a whole religion, goes against everything we stand for and believe in.
ZELENY: And the White House, called Trump's comments not only misguided, but dangerous.
JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The fact is what Donald Trump said yesterday disqualifies him from serves as president.
ZELENY: Trump brushed aside the criticism during a round of interviews today, saying his support are tired of political correctness.
TRUMP: And it got standing ovations as soon as this was mentioned.
ZELENY (on camera): Now, there were standing ovations on Monday night in South Carolina. I was in the crowd and talked to many voters. Some say they didn't know the full extent of Trump's proposal, and bristled at his ideas. But others said something must be done and they supported his plan. They're frightened, angry and believe the current administration isn't doing enough.
The condemnations are still coming in, but there is little reason to believe this will hurt Trump in the Republican primary. So far, nothing he said has.
Jeff Zeleny, CNN, Washington.
VAUSE: Trump said every time there is a tragedy, his numbers go up.
Joining me in the studio, Lynn Vavreck, a political scientist, a professor at UCLA.
Thank you for joining us.
Lynn, all the Republican candidates, Republican leadership are trying to distance themselves from Trump, yet they say they'll still support him for president should I should he make it that far. What's going on here? Explain this.
[01:35:19] LYNN VAVRECK, POLITICAL SCIENCE PROFESSOR, UCLA: Well, they're in a tough spot. If we listen carefully, they first tried to resist those questions. He's not going to be the nominee. They try to distance themselves from the question. And good reporters like you won't let them distance themselves too much and ultimately they say I'll support whoever the party nominates. They have to be party players, yet they need to differentiate themselves from Obama and Trump. They're in a tough spot.
VAUSE: Explain, too, he has such diehard supports, if they say they won't support Trump, does that hand the election to the Democrats?
VAVRECK: I don't think that alone. I think it may feel like that in the moment if you're one of these candidates but certainly many other things are going to come along that are going to play more a role than just that moment and saying that you would not support Trump if he were the nominee.
VAUSE: The first focus is on the first primaries, are about 60 days away now. So just purely by the way the system is set up, is there a certain momentum that Trump has that when people start voting, he's going to walk away with some delegates here?
VAVRECK: He may. He may pick up delegates in Iowa and New Hampshire. So you're right, to prepare people for that. More importantly to watch out of Iowa and New Hampshire is going to be who among those party regulars, the non outsiders, is coming in second or third or fourth.
VAUSE: As the alternative?
VAVRECK: Yes. And if that person has money, if it's Ted Cruz, Jeb Bush, and they can sustained their campaign while Trumps picks up some delegates, then we're going to have a real fight on our hands.
VAUSE: Quickly, has there been anything like this in American politics. Some say it's like the former -- George Wallace, the Alabama governor who ran for president in the 60s and the 70s?
VAVRECK: The similarities to George Wallace is an obvious one. He stood there and said, if Alabama wants segregation, it will have segregation. Very much a delegate of the people, their agent. And Trump is seeing himself in the same way where you might say some of these other candidates, Bush, Kasich, they see themselves more as a trustee of what's best for the party and the nation. So there's a divide there. But I would say, yes, in that populous rhetoric and that delegate mentality, Trump is a lot like a George Wallace.
VAUSE: The party of Lincoln, huh?
Lynn, thanks for being with us.
VAUSE: Appreciate it.
As we said, Donald Trump's rise is defying all the conventional political wisdom in the United States.
CNN's Randi Kaye takes a closer look.
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When Donald Trump first announced his run for president, he made it memorable. Remember this comment about Mexican immigrants?
TRUMP: They're bringing drugs, they're bringing crime, their rapists, and some I assume are good people.
KAYE: The blowback was fierce. Some in the Latino community calling him a racist. Major corporations breaking ties with him. Political insiders saying he was a doomed candidate, but they were wrong. Trump jumped seven points to second place in a FOX News poll, the first poll done completely after his presidential announcement, and it quickly became clear he was just getting started.
In July, he said this about John McCain, a former POW.
TRUMP: He's a war hero because he was captured. I like people that weren't captured, OK? I hate to tell you.
He's a war hero because he was captured.
KAYE: Again, the blowback was intense. And Trump did take a hit in the polls, dropping six points from an ABC/Washington post poll to 18 percent support in a CNN/ORC support. But still, he held on to the top spot among all Republican candidates and his numbers quickly rebounded.
The next month, Trump had women up in arms with this bizarre comment about FOX debate moderator, Megyn Kelly.
TRUMP: She starts asking me all sorts of ridiculous questions and you could see there was blood coming out of her eyes, blood coming out of her -- wherever.
KAYE: Later, Trump denied he was referring to menstruation.
Potentially, must have believed him because he held steady with support from about a quarter of GOP voters before and after the remarks according to FOX News polls.
(on camera): In September, Mr. Trump made the disparaging remarks about Carly Fiorina, his only female Republican opponent, telling "Rolling Stone" magazine, "Look at that face. Would anyone vote for that? Can you imagine that, the face of our next president?" A CBS "New York Times" poll showed he dropped six points after that, but was still in the lead.
(voice-over): And while we don't know yet how Donald Trump's call to ban Muslims from entering the U.S. will play out, we do know what happens after the Paris attacks when Trump told MSNBC he would strongly consider shutting down U.S. mosques.
[01:40:13] TRUMP: Some of the hatred is coming from these areas. The hatred is incredible. It's embedded.
TRUMP: It's embedded. It is beyond belief. The hatred is greater than anybody understands. KAYE: He escaped unscathed, again, defying conventional wisdom and
jumping in the polls by four points according to a FOX News poll and eight points in an ABC/"Washington Post" poll.
Randi Kaye, CNN, New York.
VAUSE: Still to come, Chicago is trying to keep the public from see video of another fatal police shooting. We'll have those details after another short break.
VAUSE: On Wednesday, a federal judge in Chicago will decide if videos of another police shooting should be made public. The case involves the death of a teenager shot three years ago.
CNN's Rosa Flores has details of the investigation.
And we warned you, some images in her report are disturbing.
ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: First, there was the shocking video of Laquan McDonald. And then Ronald Johnson. Both shot and killed by Chicago police. Cases that have caused outrage.
FLORES: But there is a third police shooting and video that few have seen. We've talked to two men who have seen it and they say it shows in detail the killing of black teen, Cedric Chapman, by a Chicago police officer in 2013.
BRIAN KAUFFMAN, ATTORNEY FOR CEDRIC CHAPMAN FAMILY: He was running as fasts as he possibly can away from the police when he is shot.
FLORES: Brian Caufman (ph) represents Chapman's family has been fighting for the release of the video.
CAUFMAN (ph): Approximately three to four seconds elapses and the first bullet is fired and he is dead within eight seconds of getting out of his car and running.
LORENZO DAVIS, IPRA MEMBER & FORMER POLICE OFFICER: We saw the commotion and they heard the gunshot.
[01:45:14] FLORES: Lorenzo Davis analyzed the video second by second and says this case cost him his job.
DAVIS: We felt like it was an unjustified shooting.
FLORES: Davis led the review for the city agency that investigates all officer-involved shootings called the Independent Police Review Authority, or IPRA. A former police officer himself, he describes what's on the video.
DAVIS: They pulled up alongside of that car.
FLORES: Chapman was running away from the stolen car he was driving when a he police officer opened fire.
DAVIS: Chapman was running along here. And he got to roughly this location I would say there was a gunshot.
FLORES: Chapman was carrying a black iPhone box in his hand. The shooting officer would later say he thought it was a gun.
DAVIS: He did not shout a warning. He did not use his radio to give direction of flight. He simply pointed his gun until he had a clear shot.
FLORES (on camera): Lorenzo Davis says when he deemed the shooting unjustified, his boss said IPRA asked him to change tight justified. When he refused, he says he was fired.
(voice-over): IPRA assigned another investigator and called part of Davis' report glaringly bias, saying there was a discrepancy between Davis' finding and what the facts actually show. The officer who shot Chapman was exonerated.
DAVIS: I don't want to say that the shooting was wrong.
FLORES (on camera): Why is that?
DAVIS: Because then it makes is look like some police officer are killers.
DAVIS: Right. They don't want it to look that way.
FLORES (voice-over): In fact, not only was the officer cleared, two of Chapman's accomplices were charged with first-degree murder, even though they were at least 10 blocks away when he was shot. Prosecutors say the two were involved in the carjacking, which led to Chapman's death. They pled guilty to lesser crimes.
Chicago police officers have shot 409 people since 2007, a third of them fatally. According to a CNN analysis of IPRA's data, that's one person shot about every week for the past eight years. An analysis of the 260 closed cases shows in only six says, or 2 percent, officers were found to be not justified in the use of deadly force.
(on camera): We keep on hearing from activists in the community, there's a cover-up culture to protect police officers, to protect politicians. What's your reaction to that? Do you think that culture of cover-up exists?
DAVIS: Yes, I do. That protects the reputation of the police officers and reputation of the police officers. FLORES: Rosa Flores, CNN, Chicago.
VAUSE: A short break here. Still to come on NEWSROOM, L.A., if you think the U.S. presidential race seems a little saltier than your average campaign, you're right.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: We're Americans, (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
TRUMP: It's political bull (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
GRAHAM: Tell Donald Trump to go to hell.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: The strategy behind those ugly, ugly words on the campaign trail when we come back.
[01:52:36] VAUSE: Donald Trump's controversial plan to ban Muslims from the U.S. has one newspaper comparing him to one of the most reviled and evil people in history. The "Philadelphia Daily News" used this photo of Trump essentially saying the Republican front- runner is just like Adolf Hitler.
And just in to CNN. A big retailer based in Dubai suspended the sale of Donald Trump-branded products in its stores. We have a statement from the CEO of the company. It reads in part, the CEO of Lifestyle a subsidiary of the Landmark Group says, "In light of the recent statements made by the presidential candidate in the U.S. media, we have suspended sale of all products from the Trump home decor range." The group signed a deal earlier this year to sell products from the Trump home line. 195 stores across North Africa, Pakistan and Tanzania. That's the website there. There are no products sale -- Trump product listed for sale. Not even a "Make America great again" cap.
You normally don't expect to hear a lot of blunt talk on the election trail, but the language being used in this election presidential campaign has become down-right course.
Here's Jeanne Moos.
JEANNE MOOS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's as if they are vying for curser-in-chief, and guess who is in the lead.
TRUMP: Would I approve waterboarding? You bet your (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
TRUMP: You bet your (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
MOOS: Are they trying to make America swear again?
GRAHAM: You know how you make America great again? Tell Donald Trump to go to hell.
MOOS: Gone are the days when politicians can find themselves swearing on the Bible. Even mild mannered Jeb Bush erupted.
BUSH: We're Americans, (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
MOOS: Most credit the Donald for lowering the bar.
TRUMP: But it's political bull (EXPLETIVE DELETED). Do you understand?
MOOS: But everyone seems to be following in Trump's well-manured footsteps.
SEN. RAND PAUL, (R), KENTUCKY & PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We need more phone surveillance. (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
MOOS: "Foul mouthed and proud of it," is how "The New York Times" put it.
TRUMP: I would bomb the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) out of them.
MOOS: It adds to the macho factor and makes them sound like one of us.
Even cerebral Bernie Sanders got sick and tired of hearing --
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, (I), VERMONT & DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: -- about your (EXPLETIVE DELETED) e-mails.
HILLARY CLINTON, (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: Thank you. Me, too.
MOOS: President Obama complemented the U.S. women's soccer team by saying --
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Playing like a girl means you're a badass.
MOOS: Of course, presidents are expected to swear privately --
JOHN F. KENNY, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He's a silly (EXPLETIVE DELETED). So this is obviously a (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
[01:55:11] MOOS: But it goes this FOX contributor a two-week suspension when he used the "P" word to describe President Obama as cowardly.
UNIDENTIFIED FOX CONTRIBUTOR: I mean, this guy is such a total (EXPLETIVE DELETED), it's stunning.
MOOS: When Rich Lowry described how rival, Carly Fiorina, bested Donald trump during a debate --
RICH LOWRY, FOX CONTRIBUTOR: Carly cut his (EXPLETIVE DELETED) with a --
UNIDENTIFIED FOX ANCHOR: What did you just say?
MOOS: The Donald wanted an apology for using such foul language unheard.
Well, unhear this. The mayor of Philadelphia just said this about you, Donald.
MICHAEL NUTTER, (D), PHILADELPHIA MAYOR: He's an (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
MOOS: And if you add something profane, the crowd just might go insane.
TRUMP: Bull (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
MOOS: Jeanne Moos, CNN --
TRUMP: I would bomb the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) out of them.
MOOS: -- New York.
VAUSE: My ears are burning.
You're watching CNN NEWSROOM live from Los Angeles. I'm John Vause.
For our viewers in North America, "Amanpour" is up next.
For everyone else, the news continues with Rosemary Church and Errol Barnett after a short break.