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Coast Guard to Call off Search; New 2016 Polls; Nuclear Smuggling Plot; Nuke Smugglers Could sell to ISIS; Trump Reveals Campaign Move. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired October 7, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Coming up next. For our viewers in North America, "Newsroom" with Pamela Brown starts right now.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Pamela Brown, in for Brooke Baldwin.

And we begin with breaking news.

We are just learning from the family of one of the crew members that the Coast Guard plans to call off its search for that cargo ship that went missing last week with 33 crew members aboard as it sailed into Hurricane Joaquin. Here with me now with the very latest on this is Alexandra Field.

Alexandra, what have you learned?

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This has been days of agony, we know, for these families. They have been hopeful that there would be some piece of good news given the massive search effort that's been underway for days now. But our Martin Savidge is on the ground with a lot of these family members. They have now come out of a briefing saying that the Coast Guard has told them that they will be calling off the search and rescue part of this operation.

There will still, of course, be an extensive search for answers. But in terms of locating survivors, which was certainly the hope, the intention here, it does seem, according to these family members who have spoken to Martin, that the part of the operation will be wrapped up.

We know that there were 33 people who were on board this vessel that started to make its way from Jacksonville on Tuesday. It was bound for Puerto Rico, scheduled to arrive on Friday. It lost contact on Thursday. So far, the search parties that have been there in the water overnight, working around the clock for the last few days, have found just one body that the Coast Guard has told us about, saying they found the remains of one body in a survival suit. They were not able to identify that person. We know they also found an empty life boat, so they've been deploying all of these resources with the hope that they would find another life boat with people in it and some survivors out there. BROWN: And clearly, at this point, that hasn't been found and now, as

you point out, they're calling off the search and rescue efforts. Must be so devastating for the crew members' families, Alexandra.

FIELD: We can't even begin to imagine the pain that they are feeling.

BROWN: Yes.

FIELD: We do know that the shift in this search, though, does, however, means that more steps will be taken to try and find some answers about what went wrong. The NTSB is on the ground there. They're going to be looking into what caused this ship to sink.

BROWN: Absolutely. Thank you so much, Alexandra Field. Keep us posted.

And now to the brand-new polls and the race for the White House. They show the frontrunners are leading big-time. But they're not necessarily well liked in the states that often end up mattering the most, the battlegrounds of Florida, Ohio and Pennsylvania. Since 1960, no one has ever become president without winning at least two of these states. Republican Donald Trump and Democrat Hilary Clinton are trouncing their part rivals, but their personal favorability ratings are low. One week before the Democratic debate right here on CNN, Hillary Clinton is leading her closest rival by more than 10 percentage points in all three states. And, of course, Joe Biden isn't even officially running. And Donald Trump continues to outdo his Republican competitors, including Governor John Kasich in his home state of Ohio. But it was the Florida poll that Trump boasted about just minutes ago at a campaign event in Iowa.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I was at 21. I went up to 28. We're killing everybody. We're winning by many, many points. And, don't forget, you have a sitting senator and an ex-governor in Florida and we're beating them by many - you know, when you're at 28, 29, that's a lot, especially, you know, when you think, you have 16 people - you had 17. One did sayonara. And now you have 16. So you have 16 people in the race. And when you get almost 29 percent, that's pretty good.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: CNN's Athena Jones is with the Trump campaign in Waterloo.

So, Athena, this new poll must have been encouraging, of course, to Trump - we just heard him talk about it - and Clinton, until they see what people think about them.

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Pamela.

That's right, we heard - you just heard the sound there from Donald Trump touting his poll numbers. He said from the top of his remarks, we're number one, we're winning. What he didn't mention was those high negatives, theses unfavorability numbers that are not good for either of these candidates. Look, Clinton and Trump, they're among the most well-known, probably the best well-known of the candidates. They're polling well, but they're not particularly well liked.

Let's take a look at those Clinton's numbers. She is under water. That means she has higher unfavorables than favorables in Florida, Ohio and Pennsylvania. Above 50 percent there in Florida, 51, Ohio 56 and 54 percent unfavorable rate in Pennsylvania. That is not good news for her campaign. But at the same time you have the Republican front- runner facing similar challenges with even higher unfavorable numbers in those three states. Look at those numbers there for him, Florida, nearly 60 percent, 57 percent, 58 percent in Ohio and 56 percent in Pennsylvania.

So that is a challenge that both of these candidates face and it's something that neither one can really point to as having an advantage over the other. So this is very interesting and somewhat unusual I would think, Pamela.

[14:05:09] BROWN: You make a good point there. Athena Jones, thank you so much.

So how would the clear winners at this point match up against each other? A Quinnipiac University poll shows Clinton and Trump in a virtual tie in the three battleground states. Clinton's slight lead falls within the margin of error. And yet when Clinton goes up against Carson, Carson solidly beats her in Ohio, as well as Pennsylvania.

So let's talk about all of this with veteran investigative journalist and CNN political commentator Carl Bernstein.

Thanks for coming on with us.

CARL BERNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good to be here.

BROWN: First question, of course, what do you make of how close it is between Clinton and Trump and these latest polls?

BERNSTEIN: I think it's very early and the thing we really have to look at is what Athena said, and that's the unfavorability numbers and how distrusted Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump are by the general electorate. Hillary Clinton at about 60 percent distrusted and thought of unfavorable - distrust factor about 60 percent in all of those states.

The really big news now is what's going to happen with Joe Biden.

BROWN: Of course.

BERNSTEIN: That is the real question about what's going on in the Democratic primary. If she - primary states. If you add Biden's polling numbers with Sanders' polling numbers, it looks very much like Hillary Clinton is not the favorite of a majority of Democrats right now.

One other thing. Let's take a look at what's going on in Syria at this moment with the Russians, with their firing missiles, with Hezbollah and Iran and the Russians fighting together. Let's imagine Donald Trump as the president of the United States at this moment. It's a big reality check. And I think come the spring, those numbers are going to be very different when people think about, well, do we want Donald Trump to be president of the United States in a situation such as we're seeing there?

BROWN: A lot of people wondering what his foreign policy would look like.

Let's talk about Biden, though, because you mentioned that his numbers are actually better when it comes to favorability compared to Clinton, as well as Trump. But do you think that that may be because he's not campaigning, he's not officially running?

BERNSTEIN: That figures, of course. What the - what Hillary Clinton - look, I wrote the biography of her, "A Woman in Charge," kind of the standard biography of her, and what her numbers reflect is that she has a big problem telling the truth. And people are aware of this. She has a huge number of enemies, and she is taking those enemies on, which is really where she wants to go because she's the great cultural warrior of the Democrats right now. And it's in the midst of a cultural warfare and that's what this campaign is partly about. And they like it when she takes on her enemies, the Democrats, and that's what she's doing.

BROWN: Absolutely. But can you just tell me how this squares, Carl? On one hand, these polls show that Clinton and Trump are trouncing their rivals. But on the other hand, their unfavorability is so high.

BERNSTEIN: Well, it's a -

BROWN: So how does that square?

BERNSTEIN: Well, first of all, Trump - Trump's campaign is something new in terms of what we've seen before, in terms of a bully, a demagogue, doing so well early. And it tells you something about what the base of the Republican Party is that he's getting this kind of support.

Hillary Clinton is a different story. She's the most famous woman in the world. The most well-known politician in this contest so far. And her unfavorability numbers reflect this difficulty in terms of trustworthiness, in terms of having a record in which she's played fast and footloose with the truth. Again, you have to look at why and how she has done that. It's not quite as simple as, oh, she is a liar. It has more to do I think with where she wants to position herself, not trusting the press, not trusting the electorate. So she trims and now it's catching up with her in a way that is really damaged her candidacy in a serious, terrible way for her.

BROWN: And I think much to perhaps her surprise, she has a formidable candidate in Bernie Sanders in states like New Hampshire, where he is way up in the polls compared to her.

BERNSTEIN: Well, I -

BROWN: How do you think he's comparing to debate her next week in the CNN debate next weekend? BERNSTEIN: I don't know what Bernie Sanders is doing except that

whatever he's done so far, he's done very well. And he's shifted the terms of the debate in the Democratic Party somewhat to the left. Hillary has moved toward his positions more than she might have otherwise. The big thing coming up with Hillary, though, is not just this debate, but the Benghazi committee.

BROWN: Yes.

BERNSTEIN: The Benghazi committee has been on a witch hunt after Hillary Clinton. It has no reason to exist. We know what has happened at Benghazi. It's - the Republicans should have called a halt to it long ago. And now they're in trouble for pursuing this investigation the way they have, and she's probably going to go up there and make monkeys out of them on the 23rd. And it's a great opportunity for her.

[14:10:09] Look, the prospective House speaker, Kevin McCarthy, has said, oh, yes, we created this committee and look what we've done to damage Hillary Clinton as a result of it, indicating that's really been its purpose.

BROWN: And we saw Hillary get very fired up about it just a few days ago.

BERNSTEIN: Well, she's using it to her advantage and will continue to and rightly so. I mean -

BROWN: Carl Bernstein, thank you so much.

BERNSTEIN: Good to be here.

BROWN: Don't mean to cut you off there.

BERNSTEIN: No, no problem.

BROWN: And we are just, as we pointed out, one week away from the first Democratic debate, Tuesday night, October 13th. That's the CNN/FaceBook Democratic debate only on CNN.

Coming up, what if ISIS were to get its hands on nuclear materials? New details into CNN on how the FBI has helped foil a disturbing smuggling effort involving Russian gangs and Middle Eastern extremist groups.

Plus, breaking news involving the American strike on a hospital in Afghanistan. President Obama now making a big move.

And, more breaking news at this hour. An American jet has a close encounter with a Russian fighter jet in Syria. This as Vladimir Putin escalates his war. Details just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:15:22] BROWN: CNN has learned that the FBI was involved in a series of undercover operations to stop nuclear smuggling plots. The secret investigations happened in the former Soviet Republic of Moldova in eastern Europe. A U.S. law enforcement source says smugglers may have been trying to sell radioactive and nuclear materials, possibly to enemies of the west, such as ISIS. CNN justice reporter Evan Perez is following this story. He joins me now with more.

So we know that the last operation was in February. Do we actually think, Evan, that ISIS has gotten their hands on any of these materials coming from Eastern Europe?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, there's no indication at all that ISIS has gotten its hands on any of this material. This was a sting operation that was being done by the Moldovan police with the help of the FBI. Now, this is a big concern for the FBI. You know, it is true that this is a - a major concern for law enforcement in the United States and in other western countries. The idea that there are these criminal groups that have access to some of this material and may want to sell it to pretty much anyone, that's what's going on here in Moldova, in this region controlled by Russia called Transnistria. There is these groups of - criminal groups that essentially will sell anything to anyone, planes, radioactive material, anything you want, you -

BROWN: Because they're looking for - to make a big - a quick buck, right? I mean -

PEREZ: Right, they want to make money and they don't have any qualms about dealing with terrorist groups, and that's a concern by both the Moldovan authorities and the FBI, which is why they mounted this sting operation.

BROWN: But - but how feasible would it be for an ISIS fighter to actually do a transaction in Eastern Europe and get some radioactive materials, you know? I mean -

PEREZ: Right. Exactly. I mean this is not an easy thing. And just handling any of this material, you have to have the right equipment or else these people are themselves going to be sick from radiation. So it's not a very easy proposition. We do know that ISIS has access to a lot of stuff that they can make, you know, IEDs and dirty bombs and so on. We know - we do know that they've used chemical weapons in - in -

BROWN: Mustard gas.

PEREZ: Right. Exactly. So it - they have access to some of this stuff already in the territory they control. The question of whether to weaponize it, that's a totally different thing and it's not believed that they have that capability.

BROWN: Because if they did, they probably would have used one by now, you would think.

PEREZ: Right. They certainly - these guys don't have any qualms about using this stuff.

BROWN: Exactly.

PEREZ: I mean we've seen their cruelty, so -

BROWN: Absolutely.

PEREZ: Exactly.

BROWN: Evan Perez, thank you so much.

And joining me now to discuss this, more from Washington with more insight is global security expert Joseph Cirincione. He is the president of the Ploughshares Fund and author of "Nuclear Nightmares: Securing the World Before it is Too Late."

Joe, you just heard me discussing with Evan the fact that ISIS has a lot of materials at its disposal. I spoke to one official today who said, if ISIS wanted to make a dirty bomb today, it could. So do they actually need these materials from Eastern Europe?

JOSEPH CIRINCIONE, PRESIDENT, PLOUGHSHARES FUND: They need radioactive materials from somewhere. In the territory they control right now, they don't have it. We were afraid that when one of the cities they took over had a hospital that might have had some of this material, turned out not to be the case. The trouble you have with ISIS is, it's a fundamentally new threat. The first time we have a terrorist group that has state-like capabilities, territory, money, an international recruiting mechanism that could bring in experts that could help them build a dirty bomb or even a nuclear bomb. That's what's so concerning about the story, the possibility that these smugglers are trying to hook up with ISIS.

BROWN: Because they know that ISIS has a lot of money. They know what ISIS' intent is. This February sting operation involving the FBI was a situation where one of the criminals was trying to sell cesium.

CIRINCIONE: Yes.

BROWN: Talk to me about that. How dangerous would it be if something like that fell into the wrong hands?

CIRINCIONE: Well, it would be very dangerous. A here's the problem. This is - a dirty bomb is not a nuclear explosive device. It doesn't use uranium or plutonium, the core of a bomb that can devastate a city. It uses other more radioactive materials like cesium, americium, strontium, cobalt, chemicals, weapons - materials like that. These are actually stored in thousands of facilities in hundreds of countries. Most of that material is fairly well secured. The reason you're worried about Eastern Europe, about Russia in particular, is that it's a corrupt, dysfunctional state. You see the kind of mentality the smugglers have in these stories. They're looking to make a buck, as you just said. But even more threatening is there's a new rising anti- Americanism among some of these groups. One of these smugglers specifically wanted to try to connect it with ISIS, wanting to kill Americans.

[14:20:05] BROWN: That's very alarming. Joe Cirincione, thank you very much.

CIRINCIONE: Thank you, Pamela, for having me on.

BROWN: And up next, more breaking news. An American jet has a close encounter with a Russian fighter jet in Syria. This as Vladimir Putin escalates his war. Details on that just ahead.

Plus, breaking news involving the American strike on a hospital in Afghanistan. President Obama now making a big move.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Snail mail. What's going on in the poll right now.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I don't know, but she did send me her book and I thought it was (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Trump, are you defending Ben Carson now? Are you defending him? It's a different tone than you've usually taken.

TRUMP: Folks, I don't know what happened, but I know the place was packed. You've been waiting out here for so long. (INAUDIBLE). Well, the next you'll have to get in (ph). We have a lot of people inside and a lot of people outside and we love you all and we're going to do something really special for the country. We really appreciate that you are here. At least you have a nice day.

[14:25:16] You know, we were in Tennessee and we had the same number of people outside. Thousands. I mean just tremendous numbers of people and it was pouring. So, in a way, maybe I should even thank them more than you. At least we have a nice day, right?

But I just want to thank you all for being here. You heard what we were saying inside and we're going to make our country, we're going to make it so great again and we're going to bring it back. And I've been saying it lately, the last week or two, I've been saying, we're going to make it greater than ever before. We can do that. We can do that.

With that being said, we have to get going quickly. This next election is going to be so important. We can't go on like this for another four years. We just can't do it. So we'll make it greater than ever before. I love you all and I want to thank you all for being here (INAUDIBLE).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Donald Trump speaking in Waterloo, Iowa, this after a new poll shows him trouncing his competitors in some key swing states.

And minutes ago, Hillary Clinton bashed her Republican rivals for rhetoric she says deeply concerns her. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is reaching a new low on the Republican side, the kind of language, the insults, the attacks. And - and, you know, some of it is entertainment. That's what they intend it to be, which is sad, but that's what it is. Some of it is a view of America that is just out of date and out of touch.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: No doubt her words right there were targeted - targeting the leader of the GOP pack, Donald Trump. And Trump now is promising a new phase of his campaign, one that involves spending a reported 20 million on ads. That's what he told Dan Balls of "The Washington Post" and he joins me now with more on this.

So, Dan, this $20 million will be on what he calls non-traditional spots. Tell us about that.

DAN BALZ, SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER, "WASHINGTON POST": Well, let me clarify on the 20 million. He told us - I was part of a trio of "Post" reporters who interviewed him Monday at Trump Tower, Bob Costa and Phil Rucker were also along. The $20 million figure is what he said he had budgeted originally to spend on advertising by September 15th. But he obviously hasn't had to spend a cent of that because he's on TV all the time.

They are talking now about - they have hired an advertising firm in Florida. They would not tell us who it is. They have some ideas and concept that they are beginning to develop. They're prepared to spend 20 million or more. Corey Lewandowski, the campaign manager, said on that they will spend whatever it takes. So that's the - that's the 20 million.

What we tried to get him to look at was how he goes from what he has been to what it might take to become the nominee. And he offered us details about the next phase of the campaign that in many ways make it more like a traditional campaign, television advertising, the use of surrogates. His wife and daughter are expected to come out on the campaign trail at some point in the future. Clearly designed to help his image with female voters. They are working very diligently right now on making sure he is on the ballot, that he qualified for the ballot, in all the states. Some of these states are difficult and for first-time candidates they sometimes present big problems. They are confident they are going to be able to do that.

As for his own performance style, he said he doesn't think he has to change a lot of that. But he had some self-criticism about his performance in the debate in California, and he wants to try to do better than that in the next Republican debate.

BROWN: What was that criticism?

BALZ: Well, he said there - the critique - he said, I did very well in the first debate. He was unhappy with certain aspects of the - of the second debate, but particularly the idea that he had faded away in some form or fashion in that final hour. His explanation was, I got a lot of questions at the beginning. I didn't get questions for most of that last hour. And he said, I chose not to butt in like some other candidates were doing. But he suggested that if that happens in the next debate, he will interject himself in a more forceful way even if he hasn't been asked a direct question.

BROWN: I just want to ask you, Dan, this new phase where he expects to spend the $20 million figure we just spoke about, how does that compare to how much he's spent thus far? I was talking to someone today who was saying he really hasn't spent much at all compared to the other candidates.

[14:29:53] BALZ: Well, we won't know until the report comes out, and it doesn't have to be out until the 15th of this month and then we'll get an actual look at what he's spent. But clearly he's spent way, way less than most of the other candidates. He's self-funding his campaign, which means he doesn't have to spend time raising money.