Return to Transcripts main page

CNN NEWSROOM

Manhunt for Suspect Cop Killers Intensifies; Police Tell Residents to Stay Inside as Manhunt Continues; Pretrial for Freddie Gray Murder Case Begins; Carly Fiorina Could Join Next Debate; Bush Mocks Trump in New Online Quiz; Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired September 2, 2015 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[09:00:02] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: But a small army of law enforcement is sweeping through the area for three suspected cop killers. The victim, Lieutenant Charles Joseph Gliniewicz, was a father of four. His friends called him GI Joe. He was a 32-year police veteran and may have been just days away from retiring.

Here's the dispatch audio as area police swarmed to his aid.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE DISPATCH: They were responding to a report of a suspicious, a male black and a male white. It appears the officer's gun is missing now. Special attention, Fox Lake surrounding area unit's officer to safety. Man with a gun.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: It was too late to save the officer, the lieutenant.

CNN's Rosa Flores is following the manhunt now. She joins us live from Fox Lake.

Good morning.

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. Cop killers on the loose and this community in mourning.

Now here's the latest that we know from authorities. Local, state and federal agents looking for the suspects. Now here is what they tell us. It all started yesterday at about 8:00 a.m. when Lieutenant Gliniewicz was about a mile from where I'm standing now, investigating suspicious activity.

Now he radioed into dispatch. That's what you just heard. He described the suspects as two white males and a black male. And then that radio conversation went to radio silence. They sent in backup and of course those police officers that went found Lieutenant Gliniewicz shot and killed. And that unleashed this manhunt for these suspected cop killers.

Now we're also learning more about this lieutenant who's loved in this community, Carol. We've learned that he started a program for children who were aspiring to be police officers. It's a program called Explorer. And he touched so many lives and so many young people that were hoping to be police officers and who looked up to him.

Here is what one of those individuals had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DEVAN ARBAY, MENTORED BY LIEUTENANT GLINIEWICZ: It actually makes me want to become a police officer more because of this. Truly it's just -- what happened today is unbelievable. When I heard the news I didn't think it was going to be him. I thought it would have been him apprehending the suspect. I didn't think it would have been the other way around. When I heard it, I was devastated.

My school was in a lockdown. I immediately burst into tears. I just couldn't believe what I was being told. It was truly -- it was heartbreaking for me, my Explorers, the community, everyone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FLORES: Now these people can't even mourn in peace today, of course, because those cop killers still on the loose. They are considered armed and dangerous -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Rosa Flores, reporting live for us this morning.

With those three suspected cop killers still on the loose, the Fox Lake community remains on edge.

Joining me now on the phone is Christina Barcal, she's a longtime resident of Fox Lake and was out walking her dog yesterday when police told her she needed to leave her subdivision so they could conduct a search.

Christina, thank you so much for being with me this morning.

CHRISTINA BARCAL, FOX LAKE RESIDENT: Good morning. How are you? I want to first start off by saying my condolences to the Fox Lake Police Department and the officer's family for the passing. It's such a great loss for a great man in our community and he will be deeply missed.

But yes, yesterday when I was at my residence, I was walking my dog and I was approached by two police officers telling me that I needed to go to my home or get in my vehicle and leave, that there was a shooting within two minutes away from my house and that they're unable to find the suspects and that there is a possible motive that they were hiding in our forest preserve behind our house. So I ended up leaving and was unable to return to my residence for over nine hours yesterday.

COSTELLO: Oh, my goodness. I know you have a 10-year-old son and I know several school districts are closed today. What are you telling your kid? BARCAL: Well, the school official called us around 1:30 yesterday and

told us to come pick up our children. The school was on a safety lockdown. So they required us parents to go on the property, present identification, say who we are, who we're picking up. And then the school administration walked the children out one by one with somebody from the administration to make sure that they were given to their parents and the car was who they belonged to.

COSTELLO: Christina Barcal, thank you for joining me this morning. I appreciate it.

Right now all hands are on deck. In addition to help from the FBI, police are using canine units and helicopters to comb through the search zone. However, there are tremendous challenges, including densely wooded areas.

Joining me now to talk about that aspect of this story, CNN law enforcement analyst and former FBI assistant director Tom Fuentes. I'm also joined by law enforcement trainer and former NYPD detective sergeant, Joseph Giacolone. He's also a professor at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice.

[09:05:04] Thanks to you both for being with me this morning.

Tom, I know police are searching for two white men and a black man. That's all the information police have on the suspects. So how would you conduct a search if you don't have any -- I don't know, any better description of the suspects?

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, you're exactly right, Carol. You know, you would hope that early in the investigation yesterday that somebody would have seen them together, which would be an identifier in and of itself, that's three people together, or that they would have turned up on some security camera in a nearby store or gas station. And then they would have some type of a clothing description, more accurate physical description.

But so far it sounds like the -- because of the dispatch being abrupt and the officer being killed before providing a more detailed description, they don't have a lot to go on. You know, now the case will focus on intelligence also, trying to find out is there a robbery crew that they've been pursuing in the greater Chicago metro area that consists of two white men and a black men. You know, is there a known group of offenders that might meet the group description? But beyond that, this is a very difficult investigation.

COSTELLO: Joe, the officer was stripped of his gun and maybe his police radio. What does that tell you about these suspects?

JOSEPH GIACALONE, FORMER NYPD DETECTIVE SERGEANT: Well, now they, you know, have at least one firearm, now they have two. And I think they even take -- took his taser, too. So, I mean, basically maybe some new technology, maybe some touch DNA. I mean, they had to, you know, grab a hold of this thing so they might be able to use something like that. And like Tom said, you know, surveillance cameras in and around the place. And we don't know if the officer had a body cam on him or if there was a dash cam in his patrol vehicle that might, you know, lead to further clues.

COSTELLO: Right.

Tom, there hasn't been an officer shot in this mid-sized town since, I think, 1980. The area is relatively crime free. Could that be one reason why this officer didn't wait for backup?

FUENTES: We just don't know. It's hard to tell what these individuals were doing. Why he ended up in a foot chase. You know, what he saw. Did he see that they had a vehicle and didn't have a chance to radio that in? Because, you know, whatever means of transportation they had to get to that location may have been what they used to get away. And without a description, you know, they could be a long way off. They could be in downtown Chicago in about an hour, hour and a half of that shooting.

So normally the situation like this, in a somewhat rural area 50 miles from downtown Chicago, it's a recreation area, a lot of vacation homes. Boating is popular on the chain of lakes up there, fishing. You know, these guys had a great head start also. And by the time you get enough officers up there to even try to set up a perimeter, they could already have been long gone.

COSTELLO: So, Joe, what are the odds of police tracking these people down?

GIACALONE: Yes, the odds are going to be -- you know, right now they're really behind the eight ball. They have zero information to work with. This is where you need to get, like, the CrimeStoppers money out there, the reward money. Maybe from, you know, privately funded or from businesses to get that information out there. I mean, somebody's got to know something about these guys.

And like Tom says, you know, it could be a burglary crew. You have to look through all the complaint reports and see what's going on, see who matches the description and maybe you can backend of this thing.

COSTELLO: Sergeant Joe Giacalone, Tom Fuentes, thanks to you both. I appreciate it.

We're also watching for the start of a pretrial hearing in the Freddie Gray case.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: Freddie gray didn't have to die.

UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTER: Tell the truth and stop the lies.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Demonstrators have already gathered in front of the courthouse chanting and carrying signs. A police spokesman says his agency is prepared for these protests but anticipates only peaceful gatherings. Those men and women are gathering because of these individuals, the

six police officers facing charges ranging from illegal arrest to depraved heart murder in the arrest and death of 25-year-old Freddie Gray back in April.

Now we don't expect to see those officers in court today. But we've going to -- we're going to be hearing from -- we're going to be hearing from their attorneys.

Jean Casarez is in Baltimore following this story. Tell us more, Jean.

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Carol. You know, the hearing starts in about 30 minutes. And I was actually able to go into that courtroom yesterday. And you see 11 chairs over on the defense side where the defense attorneys will sit today as they argue these very, very important motions. But there is a presence outside the courthouse, the protesters. Few in number but they have their message, justice for Freddie Gray. And there is definitely an increased law enforcement presence there.

And this community is really ready for anything because this hearing is so important to the trial itself and if charges go forward at all. The police telling their staff that they cannot take leave today. That everyone who is going to be off today needs to be on the force, in uniform, ready to go if needed. Community activists are encouraging peaceful protests and demonstrations around the community, even going this time to the higher socioeconomic areas.

[09:10:08] But it's all because of this hearing and on board first we believe this morning will be whether to dismiss any or all of the charges. The defense is saying there are no basis in fact for these charges. Each side will have 15 minutes to argue their point, not that long. The judge already has the written motions. And then a very important issue, should the state attorney, Marilyn Mosby, should she be recused because of conflicts of interest or prosecutorial misconduct?

The defense actually wanted to put as witnesses today some of her staff, an assistant medical examiner, who allegedly, according to defense documents, had a secret meeting with the prosecutor's office the day before the charges were announced. The judge said, no, we're not going to have them as witnesses at this point.

This afternoon will be whether to sever defendants in this trial. All tried together, tried in groups. And as that continues, we'll see if the protests continue and if they even increase. But this community is ready and they all are aware the decisions today, and we may not know the answers today, but the decisions could be critical for the trial up coming in October -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. So, Jean, that hearing gets underway in just about 20 minutes. We'll check back.

Jean Casarez, reporting live from Baltimore this morning. Still to come in the NEWSROOM, is Carly Fiorina heading to the big

debate stage? A rules change for the upcoming CNN debate could mean she is. You'll hear her reaction.

And we're just about 15 minutes away from the Opening Bell on Wall Street. Dow futures looking up right now after yesterday's big drop. We'll take you live to the New York Stock Exchange, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:15:55] COSTELLO: When the top Republican presidential contenders step onto the debate stage in just a few weeks, they could be joined by a new face. That would be Carly Fiorina. CNN has amended the criteria for that debate to allow any candidate ranking in the top 10 between August 7th and September 10th to participate. That changed due to a lack of national polling since the first debate last month. And Fiorina, who says she is, quote, "clearly in the top five," praised the decision.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARLY FIORINA (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: They have said that the cause was a lack of national public polling data following the August 6th debate. And that is the truth. You know, there were so many polls prior to August 6th and there have been very few since August 6th. And so if you just average these polls you come up with an answer that doesn't reflect current reality.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: The change could fit Fiorina against Republican frontrunner Donald Trump who had this to say about his Republican rival just a few weeks ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: She's a very nice woman. She got fired. She did a terrible job at Hewlett-Packard. She lost in a landslide. Other than that, she's a very nice woman.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Here to talk about this and more, Larry Sabato, director for the University of Virginia Center for Politics, and Jeffrey Lord, CNN political commentator and a supporter of Donald Trump.

So, Jeffrey, I want to start with you.

JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.

COSTELLO: Mr. Trump tweeted --

LORD: Yes, ma'am.

COSTELLO: Mr. Trump tweeted that Fiorina has, in his words, zero chance. So should we expect fireworks on that debate stage if Fiorina gets in?

LORD: I am sure that's what presidential debates are all about. It should be noted that he supported her being included in this debate as did Ben Carson. And she tweeted out a thanks to both of them. I think it's notable that the three outsider candidates, the nonpoliticians in the group, have sort of stuck together on this.

But sure, she's a candidate for president. Of course she should be on that stage. She has proven her metal here. He'll dish whatever and she'll dish whatever. That's the way presidential debates work. That's the way they should work. If they can't handle something like this, then they shouldn't be in the oval office in the first place no matter who it is.

COSTELLO: Larry, does Fiorina have a chance?

LARRY SABATO, FOUNDER AND PRESIDENT, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA CENTER FOR POLITICS: Well, a lot depends on this debate, Carol. This is going to be a very different debate than the first one. The first debate the candidates were very tentative. They didn't really want to attack one other for the most part. A couple of exceptions. This time it's Katie bar the door. And I think Carly Fiorina and all about six or seven or eight of the other candidates will be going after Donald Trump and of course he will give it right back to them.

So it should be an exciting forum. And for Carly Fiorina, this is the opportunity for her to really get in the fight.

LORD: Right.

COSTELLO: Absolutely. So the big war going on at the moment now is actually between Donald Trump and Jeb Bush. In fact, Jeb Bush fired back again this morning. He released a quiz. And it's titled, "Which candidate are you?" And of course it takes a swipe at Donald Trump's policy positions.

One question asks, "Would you rather support a candidate who opposes the Iran deal or thought Hillary Clinton would negotiate a good Iran deal?" Another question asks, "Would you rather support a candidate who strives to shake every hand everywhere or is a germophobe when it comes to shaking hands?

At the end of the quiz --

(LAUGHTER)

COSTELLO: You could end up with this, you know, depending on how you answer the question, you got Donald Trump, you have clear Democratic tendencies.

So, Jeffrey, Donald Trump was on ABC this morning, "Good Morning America," and he said, you know, I was a Democrat back in the day because everyone in New York was a Democrat. So isn't he an opportunist -- he was an opportunist then, why isn't he an opportunist now? LORD: Well, you know, this was the same kind of thing the Republican

establishment in the day in 1976 went after Ronald Reagan for saying that he'd once been a Democrat when he was challenging Gerald Ford. He was in fact a Democrat until four years before he was elected a Republican governor of California and was extremely liberal in the day.

[09:20:01] So, you know, the question is where are these people now? Good Lord Winston Churchill, not only as they said in the trade ratted, he re-ratted. He was a conservative -- left the Conservative Party in Britain and came back. So people do have a tendency to do these things sometimes depending on where they are and what their views of the world are initially. I don't question that Donald Trump is a conservative. He is where he is. He says what he says. And he'll be on that stage ready to go.

COSTELLO: So I guess, Larry, there's no such thing as a RINO anymore? A Republican in name only?

SABATO: Well, let's just say that that definition fairly has been scrambled, mainly by Donald Trump.

Look, Carol, hypocrisy is the life blood of politics. Politicians turn on a dime. We all know that. I can't think of a politician who hasn't flip-flopped on at least some major issues or even their political party. That's not what is concerning Republicans about Donald Trump or for that matter Jeb Bush. And I don't think they're concerned about Donald Trump being a germophobe either.

(LAUGHTER)

LORD: Me neither.

COSTELLO: No, probably not. I'll have to leave it there.

Larry Sabato, Jeffrey Lord, thanks to both of you.

And be sure to watch on Wednesday, September 16th, as CNN hosts our first Republican presidential debate.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM.

All right. We are in Baltimore where in just minutes the pretrial hearing in the Freddie Gray case is about to begin.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:25:45] COSTELLO: Happening now, tensions high as protesters gather outside of Baltimore courthouse. Lawyers on both sides of the Freddie Gray case are meeting for the first of what could be many pretrial hearings. Attorneys for the six police officers charged in the arrest and death of 25-year-old Freddie Gray, they want their charges against their clients dropped and the state's attorney Marilyn Mosby to step aside.

Jean Casarez is following the story. She's live in Baltimore this morning.

Good morning, Jean.

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. You know, we hear those protesters. We are hearing them now. There is definitely an increased police presence around the courthouse. They are peaceful. They are demonstrating. At issue justice for Freddie Gray. That is why they are here.

And this very important hearing is getting underway just about right now. And the hearing is important because first and foremost the defense is saying we think the charges should be dismissed. We just don't believe that there are facts that constitute that crimes have been committed. Some of the charges, all of the charges. So that's one reason that some civil people in this community are asking for peaceful protests, peaceful demonstrations, because of the importance of this hearing.

That will be the first issue today up front. Next, the judge will consider having the recusal of the state attorney Marilyn Mosby. The defense has said in a very lengthy motion that they believe there are so many conflicts of interest, that there was even prosecutorial misconduct in bringing these charges and the rate of speed at which these charges were found.

The response to that by the prosecution saying that, we believe beyond a reasonable doubt that we can prove these charges. We knew that, we investigated it ourselves, we looked at the police investigation and these charges are warranted and based in the facts of the case. And it is a jury of the peers of the defendants that should try this case. So that will go on inside the courthouse.

There is no transmission allowed while court is in session. So we won't know if the judge is rendering decisions right now or if he is taking it under advisement for later. But this afternoon it will be all about severing the trials. Should these defendants be tried together? Should they be separated out?

Meanwhile, the protests, we hear it, it is at the courthouse. These protesters demanding justice for Freddie Gray. Police force saying all officers that were going to be off today, you come on board, you come into work because we have to have our force in full just to be prepared in case any emergency would happen in this community -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Jean Casarez, we'll get back to you. Thanks so much.

I'm going to joined by Billy Murphy, he's an attorney for the family of Freddie Gray in just a moment. But first I want to bring in Rashad Anthony Turner. Rashad is the lead organizer for Black Lives Matter in St. Paul, Minnesota.

Welcome, Rashad.

RASHAD ANTHONY TURNER, BLACK LIVES MATTER: Hey, good morning, Carol. Thanks for having me.

COSTELLO: Good morning. Thanks for being here. Protesters are vowing to engage in acts of civil disobedience in wealthy white parts of Baltimore City, and also at the Orioles game. I'm thinking that will not garner much sympathy. Is that a good strategy?

TURNER: I think it's a heck of a strategy. I mean, you have to disrupt the people who want to ignore it, who want to act like police officers are above the law and like things are OK. So I definitely think you have to hit their pocket. We do the same things up here in Minnesota. So when you can hit their pocket and really get to that money I think that's when those I percenters in those, you know, white communities start paying attention.

COSTELLO: Well, I think that some of those people in those white communities will just be angry that protests are disrupting things because some of them would say we do care but we don't need disruptions like these in our communities.

TURNER: If they did care, Carol, they'd be out there, they'd be protesting with those protesters. They'd be reaching out to their legislators to make changes to keep things like Freddie Gray's murder from happening. So those people -- I think there's a lot of people who, you know, if you guys do this or if you do that, we're going to be angry or you're going to lose our support, those aren't the people we're looking to get their support because obviously they've never cared anyways.

COSTELLO: Well, I think that's sort of unfair. You can't say -- you can't like paint a broad brush and just say nobody cares, can you? That's not fair.

TURNER: Well, I mean, those people that are going to respond with, you know, stay out of our neighborhood. Those are the exact people we want to reach. You know, if they really care, they'd be doing something.