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San Francisco Police Officers Caught On Camera Forcibly Pinning A Homeless Man With Only One Leg To The Ground And Handcuffing Him; Former Subway Sandwich, Jared Fogle, Admits To Criminal Sex Charges Involving Children; A New Pill For Women Should Not Be Called Female Viagra; An Elderly Woman Who Was Savagely Beaten In A Church

Aired August 19, 2015 - 21:00:00   ET


[21:00:11] DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Tonight, shocking video of police subduing a homeless man. The homeless man has just one leg. Plus,

child pornography, child prostitution, sex with minors, police say former subway pitchman, Jared, admitted -- has admitted to all of it. And, an

elderly woman attacked in a church by two men.

It all starts right now with the "Top of the Feed." San Francisco police officers caught on camera forcibly pinning a man to the ground and

handcuffing him. The man is homeless. The man has one leg. Take a look.


UNIDENTIFIED HOMELESS MALE: What the (EXPLETIVE WORD). Why are you pinning me on the ground. (EXPLETIVE WORD). What is this? What is this,







UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE BYSTANDER (2): Wait, you are on his prosthetic leg. You are on his prosthetic leg. You are on his prosthetic leg. You

do not protect and serve this community if that is policing to you. If that is policing where a man who is handicap and is half naked on the

street is policing, you are not policing.


PINSKY: The officers say, they first approached him because he was waving sticks around. He was threatening. Then he walked into oncoming

traffic and said, quote, "I do not care if I get hit by a car."

At that point, officers got him and dropped the sticks. They attempted to detain him. He was not charged but instead take him to a

psychiatric hospital for evaluation.

Joining us, Judy Ho, clinical psychologist, professor at Pepperdine University; Areva Martin, attorney and legal consultant; Michael

Catherwood, my co-host of "Love Line" and also KABC Radio here in 790 AM, noon to 3:00, and host of "Chain Reaction" on GSN.

In the audience, Anneelise Goetz, attorney and host of "Your Life and The Law," Podcast. Also, Omarosa, former contestant on "The Apprentice."

I also got John Cardillo, WJNO Radio Host, former NYPD officer. And, finally, Chaedria -- I got Chaedria. I got the name right, Chaedria?



PINSKY: LaBouvier. She was the individual -- she was the woman who recorded that video we were just looking at. Chaedria, what led up to this

incident? What did you observe?


LABOUVIER: Please repeat that. I did not hear you.

PINSKY: What led up to the incident? What did you see happen before the tape start rolling?

LABOUVIER: Well, when I was walking from the 9th street, I could see one person, the man, and then I could see a blue wall forming. And, so,

you just know when you see that, that, that is not something that is good. But, I saw him with his crutches.

And, I saw him give the crutches to the police and then I saw them trying to -- there was this conversation, "We need to take you in." And,

he is like, "For what? I have not done anything.?" And, them like forcibly moving him to the ground.

PINSKY: Did he fall to the ground as they alleged or did they knock him to the ground?

LABOUVIER: No. they knocked him to the ground.

PINSKY: OK. I want to talk to John. John Cardillo, was that excessive force? Is this customary?

JOHN CARDILLO, WJNO RADIO HOST AND FORMER NYPD OFFICER: Not excessive force. First of all, I spoke to the public information officer of the San

Francisco Police today. From start to finish, this was an EDP, an Emotionally Disturbed Person situation. It was never intended to be an

arrest. So, with all due respect to the woman who filmed this incident, she was grossly out of context with that observation.



CARDILLO: Let me finish. Hold on. None of you have ever worked with police officers or ever have --

MANIGAULT: We have worked with police officers.

CARDILLO: Let me finish -

PINSKY: No. Been police officers.


PINSKY: OK. Go ahead, John.

CARDILLO: Now, if these were four hospital orderlies in scrubs detaining a mentally-ill person, no one would care. It is because they had

shields, guns and police. The man was taken to the hospital with ambulance without injury. Prior to that, he was standing in Market Street and the

police told me, it is causing vehicles to swerve towards pedestrians and bicycles --

PINSKY: Now, John, I got to stop you. I got to stop you, because had -- Judy, back me up on this. We both work in psychiatric hospitals. Had

this happened in psychiatric hospital, we would have been sanctioned by not just the state, but the department of mental health.



PINSKY: We would have had a lawsuit on our hands. You cannot use that kind of force in a psychiatric hospital. People trained specifically

so that never happens.

HO: That is right. And, the protocol that you observed -- if there was a protocol in the video --

[21:05:02] PINSKY: Well, no. Let us say in the hospital.

HO: Let us say -- let us talk about hospital.

PINSKY: What would we have done in the hospital?

HO: That is right.

PINSKY: What is the protocol?

HO: In the hospital, because nowadays they do not actually shackle you to the bed like they used to.

PINSKY: We used to. I was --

HO: We used to do that.

PINSKY: Now, John, you are referring to the ancient days back --

HO: Right.

PINSKY: Believe or not, it was the `80s when they used to do this.

HO: Not that ancient, though, but --

PINSKY: We would do exactly what you are talking about, John. We would have a show of force. Somebody would take that person down and put

them in leather restraint. That is unacceptable treatment in today`s age.

HO: Right. And, now --

MICHAEL CATHERWOOD, CO-HOST OF "LOVE LINE" AND HOST OF "CHAIN REACTION" ON GSN: But, you know, a hospital though -- a hospital though,

in fairness, is not a crowded street with citizens on it.

PINSKY: That is right. And, we know we are not dealing with a criminal.

HO: That is right.

PINSKY: That is the one thing, Areva, we know in the psychiatric hospital, but with patients who have mental illness for sure. We know


AREVA MARTIN, ATTORNEY AND LEGAL CONSULTANT: But, I think the problem we are seeing here Dr. Drew is the young woman who is here today, that

filmed this, she knows what she saw. So, for John to attack her and say that she did not see this --



MARTIN: -- or she saw it out of context is really ridiculous. And, the police have a problem. The police have a problem, John. Whether they

were right or wrong, the perception in the community is that the police use excessive force all too often.

And, let us talk about lawsuits. Do you know how much cities are spending on excessive force, violation of civil rights lawsuits? Millions

and millions of dollars. When are police going to get it? The distrust in the community is so great. You must change, John. You must change, John,

the way you police people.

CATHERWOOD: I -- I have to speak up for John. I am sorry. Go on.

CARDILLO: Hold on.


CARDILLO: I am sorry, Dr. Drew. Should the police just not get out of their cars anymore or talk to anybody?

MARTIN: You know what, John? There are ways --

CARDILLO: Let me finish. Let me finish. They did not pull a weapon. They did not use pepper spray. They did not use batons. They did not use

nonlethal force, and they had an extended range bin bag --


MANIGAULT: But there is a whole protocol in place --

CARDILLO: We are going to give them a lot of credit for that, John for not using the gun. We are glad about that.



CARDILLO: What should they have done? Just let the guy walk away?

MANIGAULT: No. There is a whole -- Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Omarosa.

MANIGAULT: There is a whole protocol in place for police interacting with people who have mental illness. I am a member of clergy and I am a

part of the community policing team.

And, so when we go in, sometimes there is social workers embedded, sometimes there is clergy embedded, but you know how to interact with

people with mental illness. You do not throw them on the ground. You do not pin them down in that way. There are special ways of handling and this

police force did not follow that protocol.

MARTIN: And, I have read --

PINSKY: And, Anneelise, you are sympathetic, though, to the police on what they did, yes?

ANNEELISE GOETZ, ATTORNEY AND HOST OF "YOUR LIFE AND THE LAW," PODCAST: What I would say is that right now, we are looking at this, and

this was not a peaceful arrest, right? He, at this point, in time was quite frankly lucky not to have any sort of charges for assault against an


He was kicking. He was biting. If you are concerned about, was there excessive force? I promise you, it is a gray area of the law when you

trigger or when you do not. But, if you are not resisting and you are fully complying with the police orders and they are still force, then you

have triggered it.

If not, if you are being arrested and you look around, and you think, "This feels like it might be a little bit of excessive force, start

complying, stop resisting and then if it is still --

PINSKY: Chaedria, go ahead.

GOETZ: -- you will have the problem.


PINSKY: Chaedria.

MANIGAULT: Tell them that when they are mentally challenged.

LABOUVIER: The issue that I have is that we are giving the police credit for not killing him. And, I think that, that is an incredibly -- I

think that, that is an incredibly low standard for people who are being paid by taxpayers to give peace -- to service the community.

And, what I saw was someone, who was pinned down by five people physically on him, a wall of blue, and I think that he did the best that he

could considering how traumatic and how --

GOETZ: No. You have to stop kicking, stop biting, stop resisting arrest.

MANIGAULT: You should if you are fully functioning, but you are not having the kind of common sense and sensitivity to people, who have mental

illnesses and challenges. Your expectations are way too high.



CATHERWOOD: I am -- wait, hold on.

GOETZ: No. Not with an officer.

CATHERWOOD: I have to speak up -- I have to speak up for the police in this situation as well. And, I am not in any way claiming that what you

saw was not what you saw. But, I had a personal experience, almost exactly like this, where I was -- I lived in Venice Beach where there are tons of

mentally-ill people that live on the streets there.

And, the police almost exclusively deal with the mentally-ill. And, I was driving in my car and out of the blue, a beer bottle just shattered

against the side of my car. This was a couple of years back. And, I got out of the car and I go, "What the heck is going on?"

This guy was happy that he smashed a beer bottle against my car for no reason. I got out of the car and confronted him. I realized he was a

street low man. He was clearly mentally ill. I called the cops. By the time, I got out of traffic, I went to pull back, the cops have already

arrived. And, they were kind of, you know, tussling with this guy.

There were kids on bicycles and filming it saying, "How could you treat this guy like this." And, if I was not there to say, "No, this guy

was wondering the streets and also throwing beer bottles at random parts." My point -- please --

MANIGAULT: But, Mike, you have mentioned that he was mentally ill within the first minute.

CATHERWOOD: But, my point being is that --

MANIGAULT: You know he had challenged --

CATHERWOOD: We are getting a glimpse of a very dense and very kind of complicated situation when you are talking about the police dealing with

any citizen, especially from a mentally --


MANIGAULT: It is not that complicated, where you need 14 people to do --

CATHERWOOD: Trust me though. Trust me though --

PINSKY: We got to stop. We got to stop.


CATHERWOOD: It is way better. It is way better that you --

[21:10:00] PINSKY: We will continue the conversation. We are going to continue the conversation. I got to come forward. Later, the subway

guy -- ex-subway guy, Jared, will plead to child porn charges. We are back after this.










UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE BYSTANDER (2): You are literally on his prosthetic leg. This is crazy. You can put that wall up, but it is not --

I mean people know that you all are terrible at your jobs. This is excessive force. This is why supremacy in action in real time. You have a

man who is half naked and you do not even have enough respect for this man to pull his pants up.


PINSKY: That man was later taken to the hospital for psychiatric evaluation. He was not charged. Some folks are saying, the officers used

excessive force. You will be seeing more of that video.

[21:15:05] I am back with Judy, Areva, Mike and Anneelise, John. My guests in the audience, Chaedria, do you think officers -- you say, they

used excessive force and you also made an issue of there being so many of them. Now, in our world -- Judy, in my world, showing a show of force to a

person with mental illness, who is uncontained is actually the approach of choice.

As many of people as you can possibly get together, so you do not have to even touch the person. They just calm down, because you have shown

force. But, you say it was excessive in some way.

LABOUVIER: Absolutely. And, I think it is excessive because you are literally dehumanizing this person. And, I think that, you know, just 14

people for an unarmed person who literally has three limbs.

That is excessive, and I think that the standard for what counts as excessive force is if someone dies. And, I think the reason why this tape

is very different is that he lived. And, so, we are not used to examining what this excessive force looked like when they lived.

PINSKY: And, we have the great privilege of having you here.


PINSKY: Normally, we watch these tapes and we do not have the person, who actually took the tape and thank you for being here. You made

an issue of -- It seemed like you are building a case that there was some sort of racial component to this. Is that something you felt or you feel?

LABOUVIER: Absolutely. I mean I think we have --

CATHERWOOD: Oh come on!

LABOUVIER: -- this follows a line of videos that we are seeing. This is Eric Garner. This is John Crawford. And, to think that they are

unrelated is just wishful thinking.

PINSKY: All right, John.

CARDILLO: I am actually incredulous at the ridiculousness I am hearing. With all due respect to Chaedria, she was a woman with an iPhone.

She knows nothing about police procedure. And, before I get cut off -- before I got cut off, let me finish, please. OK.

Because cutting me off does not change the facts. San Francisco police ride two to a car. Protocol for an EPK are two units and a

supervisor. Five responded. The other three units or four units were called for traffic control after this mentally-ill man jumped into the

street and caused a major traffic condition.

And, Chaedria started screaming at the police, ignorant of police procedure and caused an even bigger scene. Now, you can make this out to

be something is not all you want. But a mentally-ill person twice was asked by the police to stop, ran into. Traffic said, "I do not care if I

get hit."

And, the third time the police used hands, no other devices and safely transported him to the hospital. No racial component. You can race

bait all you want, the facts are the facts. This should be taught in the academy as what to do.

PINSKY: Omarosa.

CARDILLO: And, should --

MANIGAULT: We need to -- We actually need to applaud folks like Chaedria, who had the courage enough to go and confront this wall of police

officers. If you see something in your community that is going on, say something. Report. It is the great equalizer, Dr. Drew. The iPhone is

now the great equalizer in justice.

PINSKY: From the audience. Yes, ma`am.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I really appreciate that more and more people are becoming more educated in our rights and we are taking

videos and we are documenting stuff; but I do agree that when a homeless person is mentally unstable, they are really dangerous.

Like, I have had one mugged me before. And, I would have loved for a police officer to be there. Maybe there is too many officers in the area.

It was too many on one person, but I mean people can be dangerous.


HO: Well, exactly. This idea of dangerousness was actually present in the situation. He was not only causing a danger to himself by running

into traffic but to other cars, who were driving.

Now, what the police did correctly in this situation was actually to not arrest him for hurting a peace officer. They, actually, did eventually

transport him to a psychiatric evaluation facility, which is what he deserved. He needs to be evaluated.

PINSKY: Right.

HO: The problem with the homeless and the encounters with the police officer is that, you are right, mentally-ill people do tend to have a

slightly higher level of violence and dangerousness; but when there is an encounter with police, if there is some stress and the police are not

properly trained --

PINSKY: It can get worst.

HO: -- then the danger is to the mentally ill.

PINSKY: Areva.

MARTIN: Well, I read the statement from the police in terms of their defense of what the officers did. And, nowhere in that statement, Dr.

Drew, was there a statement about calling out trained professional mental health officers or individual social workers or anyone that is trained to

deal with the mentally ill.

So, I do not think anyone has a problem with the police doing their job. No one has the problem with police containing someone who is

dangerous to themselves, but you have to do it in a way that protects that individual`s constitutional rights. And, you do not lose those rights just

because you are homeless or because they have mental illness.


PINSKY: Now, the police -- Areva, the police officer also told us that they knew this man. He was well-known to them. Maybe, they knew

something we do not know about his tendency to violence. Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Well, I have personal experience as an EMT, five years under my belt in E.R. And, I know for a fact that

mentally challenged or mentally-ill people can be dangerous.

And, we are trained for that. I mean you have med seekers. You have people that get up, throw computers, hurt nurses, hurt other patients, so

there is precaution that has to be taken.

[21:20:00] PINSKY: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: And, we do enforce a four-point restraint when it is necessary.


HO: Right.


PINSKY: In the E.R. In the E.R.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes, sir. And, my personal opinion as far as the officers, I think that we need to stop on luckily

having a person film these events, and we need to have the technology to provide audio and video on the officers.



PINSKY: I think we are moving on that direction. I want to get to Chaedria last word here. Go ahead, Chaedria.

LABOUVIER: I mean that was the point of my article. My editor at media, we thought about this. And, this was a very thoughtful piece that

went out. And, the question is in the most technologically advanced city in America, arguably the world, why is the local police force not equipped

with body cameras?

PINSKY: Fair enough.

LABOUVIER: And, that is the big question.

PINSKY: That would help everybody, right?

CATHERWOOD: Protects the citizens and the police.


CATHERWOOD: But, I think -- I mean I know we got to change topics. But, I think it is pretty gross to call this white supremacy.


HO: Right.


CATHERWOOD: It really is. Do you not see the brown-skinned guy in stripes in blue?

LABOUVIER: Do you not see the history of that?

CATHERWOOD: All right. OK.

LABOUVIER: Do you not see that?

CATHERWOOD: Because that is why --


LABOUVIER: Do you not see the history of that.

CATHERWOOD: That applies to one criminal.

LABOUVIER: You cannot say that.

CATHERWOOD: You are right. No.

MANIGAULT: Mike. That is not what she is saying. There is a conflict --


CATHERWOOD: I can easily dismiss what she is saying.

MANIGAULT: No, you cannot.

CATHERWOOD: I have been around white supremacists. They do not look like that. They have nothing to do --


LABOUVIER: You think that is what supremacist is --

CATHERWOOD: That is a debatable treatment of a guy, who is mentally ill and a criminal. And --


LABOUYVIER: I think that you need to go down to the history books before you make that statement. That is a continuum of lynching that we

are seeing.


CATHERWOOD: Yes, you are right. That is a compelling argument. You are right.


LABOUVIER: I think in a very --

CATHERWOOD: Because -- and until the 1800s, he went to a psychiatric hospital. He is not hanging from a goddamn tree in Georgia. That is



LABOUVIER: I know. I think it upsets you because it indicts you --

CATHERWOOD: This is not white supremacy.

LABOUVIER: I think it upsets you because it indicts you and you feel uncomfortable.

CATHERWOOD: Nothing indicts me.

LABOUVIER: Yes, it does.


LABOUVIER: Why are you so mad?

CATHERWOOD: Because it is crazy.

LABOUVIER: Why are you so mad?

CATHERWOOD: It is crazy for you --

LABOUVIER: Why are you so mad?

CATHERWOOD: This is why I am mad.


CATHERWOOD: This is why I am mad.


CATHERWOOD: Because you think that because you recorded 5 seconds of whatever went on and because you have black skin, you can call people white

supremacists? That is insanity. That is insanity. Do you understand what the meaning of the word is?


LABOUVIER: And, you think because of you are ignorant of the history and because that privilege serves you --


LABOUVIER: -- you do not see it, and then you are qualified --

PINSKY: What is that city again?

LABOUVIER: -- to say that it is not.

CATHERWOOD: I am Mexican, by the way.


LABOUVIER: But, it does not matter.

PINSKY: Next up, former subway sandwich, Jared Fogle, admits to criminal sex charges involving children. We are back after this.





[21:26:37] JARED FOGLE, FORMER SUBWAY CHAIN PITCHMAN: Hi, I am Jared, the Subway guy.



JOSH MINKLER, U.S. ATTORNEY: Fogle admitted that he repeatedly travelled from New York -- from Indiana to New York to engage in commercial

sex acts with victims he knew to be children.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: The details are flat out stunning.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER Documents show exclusive images of children as young as 6 were uncovered. Unknowing minors changing clothes, showering

and bathing. Documents state Fogle engaged in sex with a prostitute, age 17, paid for it and later asked her to introduce him to more girls. Fogle

told her, he would accept a 16-year-old. The younger the girl, the better.



JEREMY MARGOLIS, FOGLE`S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Jared Fogle expects to go to prison. Jared also knows that he has a medical problem.


PINSKY: Jared Fogle has been called one of the most effective faces in advertising. Now, admitted to sexually abusing children. Back with

Judy, Areva, Mike, Anneelise and Omarosa.

His lawyers says, Jared has a, quote, "Medical Problem." Judy, I think he is talking about trauma. I think he is talking about sexual

addiction. Listen, we are going to -- Judy and I are going to talk clinically. Let me have the camera here. We are going to talk clinically

about this guy. It does not excuse the behavior.

HO: Thank you.


PINSKY: It is just a way of understanding. Those of us cannot get our head around it. When you are normal, it is like inconceivable. There

is a reason or there is an explanation for how people end up so disturbed. Yes?

HO: Thank you for that disclaimer, Dr. Drew. And, yes, you know, the prevailing idea about Pedophiliacs is that they are people who have trauma

early in life. However, recent research has actually revealed that a lot of these pedophiliacs are people who this to them is like a sexual

orientation. It is immutable.

PINSKY: Right.

HO: It is like heterosexuality or homosexual.

PINSKY: Right. And, so, it is sort of a combo of genetics and environment that create those guys.

HO: That is right. And, there is a difference between somebody who has pedophilia versus somebody who is a child molesters.

PINSKY: Right.

HO: Some of the child molesters, there is more trauma. There is history of violence. Some pedophiliacs loves so much.

PINSKY: So, let us clarify it again.

HO: Yes.

PINSKY: So, pedophilia, per se, is like a sexual orientation.

HO: That is right.

PINSKY: While heterosexuality is a sexual orientation, these people have pedophilia and it is a combination of factors that result in that

person. There is sex abusers or child molesters, which he might be, we do not know.

HO: He might, we do not know --

PINSKY: Those who have trauma and all kinds of -- and the fact that he was obese, morbidly obese suggests trauma, does not it?

HO: Yes, because there were other problems and interpersonal issues in his life.


HO: But, there are certain aspects that might suggests that there is a little bit of a sexual orientation piece in there, because he treats

these children like partners almost.


HO: That is one of the clues. You know, wining and dining them at the Plaza Hotel. It is gross. But, it is the way that they conceptualize

these people as almost equal romantic partners.

That is assigned that they see this as a sexual attractive partner whereas child molesters may not even be sexually attracted to people they

molests. They do it for power, violence and other types of issues. .

PINSKY: Now, his foundation -- the Jared foundation was to prevent childhood obesity. The guy he hired to run it is charged also with

creating and sending child pornography to Jared and others. So, Areva, it is kind of a Sandusky-iesk quality of using child charities to --

MARTIN: Absolutely. And, the first thing that I thought of when I saw this story, Dr. Drew, is just like Jerry Sandusky used that charity to

lure young boys in and to molest, you know, over 10 years, the number of kids that e did, so did this guy. What is disturbing about this is

sometimes --

[21:30:03] PINSKY: Everything.

MARTIN: -- they will make the mistake --

PINSKY: What disturbing about it is everything.


MARTIN: -- of thinking though that because they are 16 or 17 and they accepted money that somehow they can consent to sex.

PINSKY: Oh, please.

MARTIN: And, it is very clear that this is statutory rape. You cannot have sex with a minor under any circumstances.


MARTIN: It is the most disturbing story. And, for this guy to be, you know, touting himself as healthy, wholesome is just ridiculous.

PINSKY: Which is bizarre, right?

MARTIN: Bizarre.

PINSKY: We felt like we knew this guy and like, "Oh my God."

MARTIN: We let him into our homes. We saw good about him. We felt warm and fuzzy when we bought those sandwiches --

HO: Right.

MARTIN: -- and turns out he is the biggest pervert on the planet.

PINSKY: Now, he is worth $15 million. He agreed to pay to $100,000 to each of his 14 victims. But, Anneelise -- before I go to Anneelise, I

see Omarosa reacting to that.

MANIGAULT: You know, I want to speak to you just from a branding standpoint. We are talking about what Subway has to do in terms of

recovery. I mean, you know, you look at this and you know like Areva said, you think about the sandwiches, you think about this franchise. It is

damaged beyond extent.


MANIGAULT: But, more importantly these children are damaged.


MANIGAULT: So, when we start talking about money, I think we need to be very careful because we cannot in anyway put a price tag on what these

children have been through.

PINSKY: No. That is right. I always call sexual abuse in childhood -- the gift that keeps on giving because it can be a single event but it

can affect a lifetime. T hat is what I mean by that. But there are going to be -- In addition to that $100,000 as a part of the criminal settlement,

there will be civil suits.

GOETZ: Dr. Drew, this is the tip of the iceberg. So, people hear $15 million, and they think why are those innocent victims receiving $100,000.

That is nothing. But, the restitution when the court is trying to do is essentially make them whole for the actual financial damage.

But, I promise you, I promise you that civil lawsuit is coming, probably, from each one of those victims. And, there will be huge monetary

damages attached. Because we are talking about probably a lifetime of --

PINSKY: Damage.

GOETZ: -- of counseling --

PINSKY: Damage, yes.

GOETZ: -- of therapy, of help.


GOETZ: And just the emotional distress that they went through as a result of being a victim to this crime, it will be a big settlement.

MARTIN: And, you know, there may be other victims out there, Dr. Drew. Whenever these stories go national like that and get this kind of

attention, we always hear about other victims who get empowered now to come forward and tell their story, because they see that there is justice and

something is being done.

PINSKY: And, there has been a plea bargain. Does the judge have to follow that plea bargain.

MARTIN: Absolutely not. And, in the Jerry Sandusky case, he got 30 to 60 years. And, I was outraged with this plea agreement, which says the

maximum is around 12 years and he is agreeing not to accept 5. This guy needs to go to jail for three time 12, if not four times 12 years. It is

not enough for what he did to these kids.


CATHERWOOD: I have a question for Anneelise and Areva. Let us say there is, you know, subsequent civil suits and they drain him for all his

money. What happens to like Jared`s ex-wife and his other children, who probably do not deserve to be --

PINSKY: Who are victims also.

CATHERWOOD: Right. Right. Right. You know what I am saying, like is there like a stipend for --

GOETZ: You know, I am not sure if it is a community property, say or not. I am not sure where he is. She would have certain rights, because

she is going to divorce him. That was the first statement that came out.


GOETZ: She was shocked by his behavior. She had no idea. She is going to divorce him. And, if that proceeding goes through, we are going

to have marital assets, separate assets and they will not be able to, potentially, depending on the state law collect against her, but you are

still looking at $7.5.

MARTIN: And, I will be surprised to see if the lawyers do not sue Subway.


PINSKY: Right.

MARTIN: Because he was a spokesperson. He was an agent for Subway and some smart lawyer is going to say you knew or should have known,

because some of the trips were business trips we are hearing.

PINSKY: Oh boy.

MARTIN: So, you may see Subway brought into a civil lawsuit. They have a deep pockets here. This a billion-dollar company, not Jared, even

though he is worth $15 million. That is nothing.


MARTIN: Compared to what these kids -- these young adults are going to need to recover fully from this kind of abuse.

PINSKY: All right, we are going to keep this going. We also are going to bring in to talk to us about this convicted sex offender.

And, later, I will tell you, why a new pill for women should not be called female Viagra. It is making me very angry. Back after this.





UNIDENTIFIED MALE ANNOUNCER: This is Jared. He weighed 425 pounds. Inspired by Subway`s low-fat sandwiches, he invented a diet of his own.



RANDI KAYE, CNN NEW YORK CORRESPONDENT: Jared claimed to have lost 245 pounds in one year and got very, very rich.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Federal and State Law Enforcement agents raided Fogle`s home in Indiana. They carted off computers and other




UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Explicit images of children as young as 6 were uncovered.



JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Knowing and distributing and viewing these child pornography videos at the head of his foundation secretly taped

of minors, as they were getting in and out of the showers. They had no idea.



ATTY. MINKLER: This is about using wealth, status and secrecy to illegally exploit children.



ATTY. MARGOLIS: Jared also knows that he has a medical problem. He has already sought evaluation by a world class psychiatrist, experienced in

these matters and he will seek appropriate treatment.


PINSKY: And, he should have done that before he harmed himself or anyone else. Fourteen children have been victims of former Subway

Pitchman, Jared Fogle. Back with Judy, Areva, Mike, Anneelise and Omarosa.

And, joining me on the phone, on Skype rather, I have Derek Logue. He was a convicted sex -- or is a convicted sex offender. He is the

founder of, quote, ""

Now, you make a distinction between individuals that are attracted to teenage children. Let us be clear, these are all children and prepubescent


DEREK LOGUE, CONVICTED SEX OFFENDER: OK. Well, I do not know if you can hear me or not, because I just do not hear you at the moment; but,

anyways, you know, let me -- I want to stress a very important point.

[21:40:00] First of all, if you guys can hear me, one of the things I really want to make clear is that one of the reasons that individuals do

not seek help for these problems is they really have nowhere to go.

We have created this monster myth in our culture and so we are looking for the monster, these stereotypical pedophile with the wrinkly

trench coat and the rusty van. And, instead of looking for regular individuals like Jared Fogle, you know, successful individuals, do go out

and commit these kinds of offenses. And, the thing is when these people have -- and when these people have issues, they have nowhere to turn to.


PINSKY: Well, I am going to interrupt. I am going to interrupt.

MANIGAULT: I disagree.

PINSKY: Omarosa, go ahead.

MANIGAULT: I disagree. There is a lot of outlets. If you have a problem, there are doctors, psychologists, sociologist, you can go and turn

yourself into the police. The problem is that people saying that they do not know, you really do. Because if you get street justice, it is a lot

worse than what you are going if you turn yourself in.

PINSKY: Yes. You can go to SA.

HO: Yes.

PINSKY: You can get to 12-step meetings, immediately, tonight. You can look them up online. You go to SA now.

HO: There are so many resources. And, when you look online, if you - - you know, there is a lot of stigma, but that is true. But, if you look online, for resources you get pointed to these anonymous resources where

your identity will not be revealed, and you can start taking the right steps to getting help.

MARTIN: But who cares.

HO: The problem is, I think mostly people do not -- people should get help for this. This is a real clinical problem.

PINSKY: Because they feel there are somebody.

MARTIN: I kind of feel any sympathy for people who needs help. I am talking about -- let us talk about the kids that need protection from

people like him. He seemed to be making some kind of an argument that because he cannot get help, he has not committed a crime. These are



HO: We are not talking about it.

MARTIN: These are crimes.

PINSKY: These are serious crimes.

Ho: Yes, very serious crimes.

MARTIN: Very serious crimes.

PINSKY: Go ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I believe that -- a lot of people keep saying that, you know, he was -- what is the word I am looking

for -- abused as a child is something like that.

PINSKY: Something.

HO: Maybe.


PINSKY: Maybe. We are speculating.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: I feel like maybe it is from an addiction. He goes from being addicted to foods, being addicted to --

PINSKY: You are absolutely right. That is how we conceptualized some of these behaviors when we approached treatment. I do not know in this

guy`s case, but we could. That is what I said, go to Sex Addicts anonymous, S.A. Go there now. Go to -- There is closed programs all over

the country.

HO: Lots of closed programs.

PINSKY: Yes. Thank you.

HO: And, it is really important that we do get them treatment because we want to prevent these things from happening to more children.

That is why prevention is more important than just trying to catch them after they have already done all of this and then just locking them up.

Because, eventually they get released and then same thing happens again without the treatment.

MARTIN: I am having a problem with this argument, Dr. Drew. Because it seems like we are somehow, you know, elevating --

PINSKY: Not elevating.

MARTIN: Well, it does not sound like we are placing enough emphasis on the needs to protect kids from predators like that. That is the problem

with that.

PINSKY: Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Analize the child`s psyche why they are going through this? And should the parents be held accountable


PINSKY: Well, you mean, why the children are victimized?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes. What is going on? Are they accepting to this?

PINSKY: Well, what happened it -- listen, these predators know how to select children that are vulnerable.

HO: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER: All right. What about the parents of those kids --


CATHERWOOD: Wait. Wait. A lot of these parents thought they were sending their kids to a camp for childhood obesity. So these parents --

PINSKY: Is that why this happened.

CATHERWOOD: Well, yes. I mean that is what they said. Some of the tapes were these kids getting in and out of the shower. And, he was sort

of videotaping that. So, I mean these are actually actively kind of focused parents.


GOETZ: Dr. Drew.

MANIGAULT: You are raising children, though. If a child is watching this and they are being victimized, where do they go? Where do they turn?

PINSKY: They tell their teacher, tell their parent, tell their doctor, tell anyone you trust who is an adult. And, anyone who knows a

child who is going through this -- go ahead.

HO: Yes. That is why sex education needs to happen really early, Dr. Drew.


HO: As we know, there is a lot of programs that start as young as 3 or 4. Teaching them at a rate that they understand, the language, they

comprehend. This is good touching, this is not.


PINSKY: The way kids think they blame themselves for everything that is happening to them.

HO: Absolutely.

PINSKY: They feel responsible for it. You got to teach them about it.


HO: Where do you go when it is people that you actually trust?

PINSKY: I know.

HO: Sometimes, these are teachers and Jared was a mentor for some of this.

PINSKY: Anneelise, last thought.

GOETZ: I mean, it just breaks my heart. You think about these children. It was a trusted relationship. They were at a camp trying to

improve themselves, and they were taken advantage of it.

PINSKY: It is disgusting.

GOETZ: Terrible.

PINSKY: it is beyond approach. And, it is sad. Let us face it, it is sad.

Next up, I got an elderly woman who was savagely beaten in a church. Also a sad story. We will get with that and more.




PINSKY: Time for "Click Fix," where my guests tell me what is trending on their Twitter, Facebook and Instagram feeds. And, Judy is


HO: OK. So, a 76-year-old, Lucille Morneli (ph). She is a woman from Des Moines, Iowa. You can see her in this video at St. Cecilia

Cathedral. One of two young men approached the victim and grabbed her purse.

PINSKY: Oh my God!

HO: And, a second suspect hit her and knocked her down. And, the woman hit her head on the side of the table as she fell.

PINSKY: Is she OK?

HO: Well, the second man is still on loose. She is taken to the hospital now with a large bumps and scrapes all over her forehead. She is

doing fine now. She was treated and released and she is asking for prayers.

PINSKY: With her age, a head injury like that can be --

HO: Pretty bad.

PINSKY: Devastating.

HO: I am surprised they released her so soon. But, apparently, she is doing OK. She is rehabbing at home and she is asking for your prayers.


PINSKY: Well, now can we help find that second guy? No?

HO: Well, the first guy is a 22-year-old Wayman Clark.

PINSKY: Where was this guy?

HO: It was in Des Moines, Iowa.


HO: Waymon Clarke and his mother, Charlene, she was also arrested on suspicious of being accessory to a felony. So, there is a bit of a

criminal history in this family. That is the first suspect that they already arrested. So, maybe the second suspect is also in one of his

associates or friends.

PINSKY: A day for disgusting human behavior. What is up, Mike.

[21:50:00] CATHERWOOD: Well, speaking Mike. Indiana mayor declares Walmart a nuisance after the latest fight caught on tape and then put on

YouTube. All right, listen to this. As many as three police visits are made to this particular Walmart every day. The town only has 14,000


PINSKY: Where is it? Where is this?

CATHERWOOD: Beach Grove, Indiana. He actually -- Mayor Dennis Buckley has made a statement. So, I think we have some audio.

PINSKY: Is he the mayor?



DENNIS BUCKLEY, BEACH GROVE, INDIANA MAYOR: The latest incident where the gentleman was caught shoplifting and struggled with the off-duty

sheriff officer and left the store and ended up shooting himself in the head. That was probably the final straw for me. In the last five months

we had made 486 responses to the property.


PINSKY: 486.

CATHERWOOD: Oh my gosh.

PINSKY: That is unbelievable. This is Indiana?

CATHERWOOD: Yes. It is Beach Grove, Indiana.

PINSKY: You think about these as such sort of pastoral sites.


PINSKY: Behind the Walmart. There is websites now just dedicated to fighting in the Walmart.

CATHERWOOD: And just the people of Walmart. Yes, you can see like Poopas and belly tops with poopa coming out.

PINSKY: What do you got there, Areva?

MARTIN: Good old Donald Trump. So, he does an interview with CNN`s Chris Cuomo. And, Donald is not backing down from his call to revoke

automatic citizenship for children born in the U.S. to undocumented immigrant parents despite concerns that he is going to turn off all

Hispanic voters.

PINSKY: Now, Areva, this is kind of assault on the 14th amendment. No?

MARTIN: Let us take a listen.


DONALD TRUMP, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: 300,000 births this year illegals in our country. That means we picked up 300,000 people that

are going to get social security. You have people on the border and in one day, they walk over and have a baby. And, now all of a sudden we are

supposed to pay the baby --

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: So, the citizenship for those babies --

TRUMP: Medical social security --

CUOMO: You would revoke it, now in retroactively?

TRUMP: Number 1, the 14th amendment is very questionable as to whether or not, somebody can come over, have a baby and immediately that

baby is a citizen. OK?


PINSKY: Now, Areva --

MARTIN: Unfortunately, the 14th amendment is not questionable. It is very clear. If you have a baby, you are born in the United States. You

are an American citizen, Donald Trump.

PINSKY: No, but Areva, I talked to an attorney, and they said that there was some wiggle room on the mother. That the mother needs to be

somehow - not someone who -- the fanny pause do not imagine somebody being air lifted in the United States and then coming back out after delivering a


MARTIN: It is not a snowball`s chance in hell, Dr. Drew, that someone born in the United States will not be given the full rights and privileges

of a United States citizen. You want to change the constitution, go ahead, Donald Trump. But, the 14th amendment is clear, equal protection for

everyone born in the United States.

PINSKY: I think there -- well, that is going to be retroactive removal of it, but I do think there are going to be some opinions, I think

about who the people are that come here to have the child.

MARTIN: But, if you are born in the United States. If you start targeting people who are born here, what is going to prevent you from

targeting anyone that you do not like?


PINSKY: Slippery slope, again.


PINSKY: Slippery slope. The attorneys are going out, slippery slope.

MARTIN: African-American.

PINSKY: I am going to --

MARTIN: Native Americans. Everyone is at risk from this guy.

PINSKY: Wait a minute.

MARTIN: Anyone who wants to target Latinos --

CATHERWOOD: You know who is not at risk? Hot young women. He is like, "Go ahead. Come on in."


PINSKY: All right. Back with a bit of discussion about a new libido pill, after this.





[21:57:53] PINSKY: All right. This is a complex topic I want to deal with very, very quickly. But, this whole idea of a female Viagra is

flawed. There will be no female Viagra. Viagra is a medication that strictly works on the vasculature of men.

This new drug that has been approved is something that is a central nervous system medication. It is related to anti-depressant. It will have

loads of side effects. It affects the dopamine and noradrenergic part of the central nervous system. It is going to be problematic.

If somebody has a drop in libido, they should be evaluated for a medical problem. Drop libido is often a harbinger of serious medical

illness. It is not going to be just handing somebody a pill. I am furious that the drug companies jumped all over this. This is going to benefit

nobody except the pharmaceutical companies.

Doctors should have medicines to help patients. I am glad it was approved, but let us stop calling it a female Viagra. It is going to help

no one except the drug company. It is a serious medicine that affects your brain.

And people need to be carefully and medically evaluated if they are having a problem with their libido. Let me live it at that. But, before

we go, I got a clip from a very special, special, we have coming up called, "Transgender In America." It airs next Wednesday and Thursday. Take a



UNIDENIFIED TRANSGENDER SPEAKER: I am sitting there telling her on the first day we met that I am transgender. I am really a woman.

PINSKY: And, you never told anybody that?

UNIDENTIFIED TRANSGENDER SPEAKER: I had never openly talked about that with anybody. And, the really amazing thing about it is that she did

not run away. And, she still has not run away. We have been together for 34 years. We have been married for --




PINSKY: We actually have two special shows as I said on this topic next week. It is "Transgender In America." It airs Wednesday and Thursday

at 9:00 P.M. Eastern on HLN. Do we have any other footage to air at the show? I thought we had something else to show, is there anything else?

All right, a lot of us were here for the special. It was very good, right?

CATHERWOOD: It was very touching and very informative. It really was.

PINSKY: Very informative. I learned something. And, I think we all did, really. And, particularly, that second episode was very, very

touching. Some of the stories were really extraordinary.

A reminder that we are on SnapChat. You can join us there. It is DrDrewHLN. Please DVR the show. Set your DVR for that transgender show.

You will not want to miss it. DVR the show, any of these shows. You can watch us any time.

Thank you all for watching. We appreciate the support. And, thank you, audience. Thank you panelists. We will see you next time.