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Donald Trump is not backing down; Former contestants from his show "the Apprentice" are depending Donald Trump; Missouri is marking one year since the shooting death of Michael Brown; California woman brutally attacked and murdered NFL hall of famer Frank Gifford passed away; 5-6p ET

Aired August 9, 2015 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[17:00:00] DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I said, blood was pouring from her eyes or out of her eyes which is a very common statement. I said the same thing about Chris Wallace.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: That's right. You did. Then you said blood coming out of her where ever.

TRUMP: I said - no. I said blood was pouring from where ever because I wanted to finish the sentence. I wanted to get off of the whole thing and get back onto the subject of jobs or whatever we were talking about right after that. So I didn't even finish the thought. I was going to say nose and/or ears because that's a very common statement. It's a statement showing anger. She had great anger when she was questioning me, especially since I mentioned something. That was The Rosie O'Donnell set in which everybody said was by far the loudest applaud of the entire day of all of the speakers and I think you would agree. And she became very angry. And all was doing -- I said nothing wrong whatsoever.

And by the way, Jake, let me say this. Only a deviant would say that what I said was what they were referring to. Because nobody can make that -- you almost have to be sick to put that together.

TAPPER: Well, among that list of deviants would be Erick Erickson, Jeb Bush, Lindsey Graham, Carly Fiorina.

TRUMP: Jake, Carly Fiorina, OK, give me a break. She's got zero chance.

TAPPER: Why do you think so many of your fellow candidates, so many conservative commentators are saying that they don't believe your explanation?

TRUMP: Because they want to be politically correct. They want to get points. I'm leading in the polls by a fortune. They wouldn't - by tremendous margin. Do you think they would have had 24 million people watching that show if I wasn't on it? If I wasn't on that show, Jakes, in all fairness, in all due modesty, you would have had two million people, not 24 million people. And you can ask any expert about it. But 24 million people was not there to watch Carly Fiorina or Jeb Bush.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

POPPY HARLOW, CNN HOST: You can see that entire interview of course on CNN.com.

With me now, CNN political commentator Tara Sethmayer to talk about it.

Let's talk about first of all this interview this morning. I want you to listen also to what two of his fellow Republicans had to say, both Carly Fiorina and Jeb Bush.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARLY FIORINA (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: They were completely inappropriate and offensive comments, period.

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Come on. Give me a break. I mean, are we -- do you want to win? Do we want to insult 53 percent of all voters? What Donald Trump said is wrong. That is not how you bring people together to solve problems.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Carly Fiorina also saying, the point is women understand that comment and, yes, it is offensive. What's your take?

TARA SETHMAYER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I agree with Carly Fiorina 100 percent. I mean, any woman who has been in a male dominated industry or field has been on the other side of chauvinistic sexist comments like that at some point in their career. And we know exactly -- we don't know what was in Donald Trump's mind --

HARLOW: He says you have to be a deviant.

SETHMAYER: I guess he's insulting the majority of women who interpreted that offense statement that way as deviant. I'm not a deviant. You know, it was quite clear. The tone he used. The context in which he used it. And he has a history of this.

You know, I could maybe give Donald Trump the benefit of the doubt that he misspoken, that he intended to say her nose or whatever he claims. If he didn't have a history of making insulting, juvenile remarks about women which he's done plenty of times in the past, it is documented.

Now, what he's doing trying to turn this around that makes all of us sounds crazy, we are all crazy. Donald Trump is, you know, he's right on everything because he's the smartest man in the room, he's the richest one, he brings in ratings, you know. And so, all of us, we're all crazy, but he's right. This is completely unprofessional, un- presidential. And it is low brawl (ph), low class juvenile staff.

HARLOW: We don't have any polling out yet since the debate and since these comments were made. But up until now he has been by far the frontrunner in poll after poll after poll. The top, you know, frontrunner among GOP registered female voters as well.

You are a conservative strategist. You're a Republican. He tweeted this just in the past few hours. Let me read it to you. About Carly Fiorina.

I just realized if you listen to Carly Fiorina for more than ten minutes straight you develop a massive headache, she has zero chance.

When I read this, I think, alright, she's polling so much lower than him, why is he going after her, a few times, not just this tweet. I keep saying to myself, is this because she's the only other one on this stage that can say, I have business experience, a lot of it. She ran Hewlett-Packard. Does he see that as a threat?

[17:05:01] SETHMAYER: I think so. I think Carly Fiorina will run circles around him when they are on the debate stage, hopefully together in September at the CNN debate. Just look at this. He's supposed to about the frontrunner. Why is he devolving into this playground, childish, tit for tat, back and forth insults at someone who he claims is such as zero and doesn't matter whatsoever? Why is he continuing to elevate her? It's path logical for him.

HARLOW: It keeps him in the headlines. It keeps him leading hour after hour in cable news and the headlines and print.

SETHMAYER: And you nailed it, Poppy. That is what this is about for Donald Trump. He is a classic narcissist. This inability to apologize ever or take responsibility for the words that actually come out of his mouth. It's pathological. I mean, anyone who continues to do this in all he does, he is challenge by it.

You know, I was thinking about this the other day. He is approaching this the same way he approached "the Apprentice." It is brilliant marketing. He knows that people would like to watch this kind of behavior and he's behaving the exact same way that he behaved on "the Apprentice." People tuned in to watch him say you are fired. They tuned to watch him insult people and they're doing the same thing with this campaign.

HARLOW: Coming up in the next block, we're going to hear from two of the contestants on "the Apprentice." People are talking about that and supporting Trump.

I do want your take on this, switching gears a little bit here, though. We also, you know, Trump is obviously making the headlines. There is a lot of other candidates in both parties to talk about. Bernie Sanders getting a lot of attention over the weekend. And he came out this morning in one of the Sunday talk shows talking about his biggest opponent, Hillary Clinton. I was fascinated by what he said. Let's roll it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think for a variety of reasons, Hillary Clinton has been under all kinds of attack for many, many years. I can't think of many personalities who have been attacked for more reasons than Hillary Clinton. And by the way, let me be frank, I'm running against her, some of it is sexist.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: He said that some of the attacks on Hillary Clinton, who is his biggest challenger, are sexist. What do you make of the content of that and also frankly him coming out and saying that about his biggest oh opponent?

SETHMAYER: Well, it is just part of the overall Democrat strategy in the war on women trying to use that against Republicans at (INAUDIBLE). So this is not to be unexpected. This is typical, what they say. You know, I was called a sexist because I criticized Hillary Clinton for goodness sakes. So this is something that they are going to use as a tool. And unfortunately, in the past, it was effective against Republicans because they didn't help themselves with some of the things that they said or having better messaging to debate that.

Now, they did in 2014, it wore thin particularly in the Colorado senate race. They tried to use that in the Democratic candidate. It did fail miserably and he lost. So we don't need this kind of devolved conversation. The political discourse has devolve to periods and the presidential race in the same sentence because of what Donald Trump is doing.

What happened to common decency in America? You know, you can be - he is turning around and using the excuses of political correctness. It is all about political correctness. No, it's about being decent. You can still be strong. You can be firmed. You can tell it like it is. Many of us do that without being obscene and acting like children on the playground. And that's exactly what Donald Trump is doing here and it doesn't help anyone moving forward. I think this will fizzle out eventually when people get tired of hearing the same things. So all he does repeat the same thing. We can predict what Donald Trump is going to say.

HARLOW: I don't know you can always --

SETHMAYER: You know he's going to call somebody a loser. He is going to say that they are weak. He's going to say that I'm smart, I'm rich, and I can do better. But he has yet to explain how. And I'm waiting for someone to finally say to him, OK, that's great, Donald. We get it. We heard you say that a million times. But how are you going to do these things? And let's see what he does from there.

HARLOW: I think a lot of journalists have and the moderators did on Thursday night and ours certainly will on September 16th.

Tara, thank you, as always. So are we. That reminder for you. CNN hosting the next Republican presidential debate Wednesday September 16th.

Still ahead, defending Donald Trump. Former contestants from his show "the Apprentice" sounding off on whether or not he has an issue with women, what they experience.

Also, Trump's role as a self-described television quote "ratings machine." Our senior media correspondent Brian Stelter weighs in.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:12:42] HARLOW: Well, the criticism of Donald Trump's remarks about debate moderator Megyn Kelly reverberating across the political world. He's taking heat from some of his Republican rivals, conservative activists and media critics. Others are supporting Donald Trump as they have throughout.

Let's talk about all of it and just the remarkable ratings that he is bringing in. CNN's Brian Stelter is here, senior media correspondent and host of "RELIABLE SOURCES."

He's been taking a lot of heat. Clearly doesn't bother him. You had a fascinating segment on your show this morning talking with some of his celebrity apprentice contestants and what they have to say especially when it comes to Donald Trump and women. So let's plat that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OMAROSA MANIGAULT, FORMER CELEBRITY APPRENTICE CONTESTANT: Going through comments Donald Trump has made in the last 30 years is just the lowest form of journalism. Yes, he says things off the cuff, but to take them and use them and try to apply them to all women. Just because he doesn't like Rosie O'Donnell doesn't mean that he hates all women. I think it is ridiculous to pain with such a broad brush. He does not have a woman problem.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: What stood out -- I know it was just part of the conversation. What stood out to you most from having them on and hearing that perspective?

BRIAN STELTER CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: So often, so much of the opinion on television and the comments you read online is anti- Trump almost flexibly, whether it is establishment figures, journalists who frankly think they know better than the ordinary voters or the ordinary people watching at home.

I think we're reminded from people who know Trump in some cases might still a financial interest that Trump, we should make that clear, is that he has a lot of fans out there and a lot of people who love his bluntness, who loves his straight talk and don't think that the stereotype sometimes portrayed of Trump is accurate.

HARLOW: Right. And when you talk about how many people are watching, this also is very helpful for the other candidates in terms of the amount of eyes on them. The rich, we were talking about, when the numbers broke on Friday, 24 million, it was actually 36 million people.

STELTER: Yes. That's if you measure all the people that watched any part of the debate. So, there is 24 million average, which means at any given minute during the debate, 24 million were watching. But overall, the overall rich mean 36 million people were at least exposed to the debate at some point on Thursday.

That's just an extraordinary number. It is the kind of number that candidates dream about. So if you're Chris Christie or John Kasich or anybody who was up on that stage, especially if you had a hard time getting into the top ten, and just barely made it, imagine the advantage they've gained by being in front of 36 million people.

By the way, even the undercard debate at 5:00 p.m. had a reach of 10 million. So, it wasn't all Trump. I know Trump was all over the morning shows today saying without me, nobody would have watched the debate. Well, that's actually not true. These were bog events, regardless of Trump, but there is no doubt Trump made them bigger.

[17:15:23] HARLOW: Let's talk about the numbers. ABC, CBS, NBC newscasts, been 114 minutes of campaign coverage from the beginning of June through the end of last week, Trump got about 60 of them. Trump got about half of that time. When you talk about how much attention the media is giving not just to Donald Trump, but to comments that are not about policy, that are not about any of the big topics like immigration or tax reform or income inequality or race relations in this country, you know, this is your beat. This is what you cover.

Where does the media draw the line on how much attention to give to this back and forth argument?

STELTER: The short and easy answer is that, yes, Trump gets too much coverage. The hard and longer answer is he is a news worthy figure. He is a fascinating figure. He might be in some ways a lot more interesting than the other candidates. He's making a lot more news in some cases than the other candidates and we know the audience is interested. So I think those are the two sides to it.

HARLOW: Do you wrestle with it?

STELTER: Absolutely. You know, someone said to me recently, is Trump going to be president? If he's not going to be president, wouldn't we be better served covering the others who will be president?

Now, you know, two months ago I didn't think he was going to gun. So it would be easy to say yes, we should cover more serious candidates. But the polls are indicating that people need to know -- people want to know about Trump and that b, that I think we should tell them more about him the good and the bad. There's lots of bad to cover, there's also some good to cover about Trump.

HARLOW: And the people are reacting.

STELTER: He is tapping into anger. That's a really important story. Trump might be the wrong messenger, he might be the wrong vessel for that anger, but the anger and the dissatisfaction, that's important news. And now, of course, in stories, we need to focus more on the policy part in that less on the spectacle. That's always a challenge for us in the media business. It's also good to talk about that and say that out loud sometimes.

But listen. Trump, he's the story of the summer. I wonder if he will also be the story of the fall. So far, the debates are going to be the biggest show of the fall.

HARLOW: Brian Stelter, thanks so much.

The next debate right here, CNN, September 16th. You will not want to miss it.

Thank you, Brian. Thank you very much.

Turning our attention to what happened one year ago today, his death started a national conversation on race, policing and violence in America. Still ahead, how Missouri is marking one year since the shooting death of Michael Brown. You will hear from activists forged by those days in Ferguson.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:21:32] HARLOW: Right now, hundreds of people in Ferguson, Missouri, are marking the one-year anniversary of Michael Brown's death. Today's remembrance started in silence.

(VIDEO CLIP PLAYING)

HARLOW: From there, people embarked on a silent march through the street to the location where he was shot and killed. The officer who killed him, Darren Wilson, ultimately cleared of any wrong doing. And while Brown's death sparked riots and looting, it also created a new generation of activists dedicated to changing this country for the better.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We needed to look up forking son. Go look up Ferguson. And they send a picture of Mike Brown.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Someone just got shot. So another boy they just got shot.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that led to a chain reaction.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The scale has increased exponentially.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We were there for three days and it changed my life.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I and other folks plan on staying there for days. We ended up staying there for months.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That was a surreal experience. Being out there and seeing the tanks, seeing the SWAT teams.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot of these relationships that you see now were built in tear gas, rubber bullets in Ferguson.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This moment in Ferguson was actually about a larger conversation in black America. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If they thought that their militarize overreaction

would quell the fire. What they did was built life-long relationships and a solid dirty commitment for justice.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're seeing a lot of new people and we are seeing folks that have been doing this work for years coming to the organizing work in different ways and recognizing that this is a different moment.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want to embrace every member of our community.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What's happening right now is that it continue, it's rolling, it's rolling, it's rolling and it's picking up more people.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have to continue to be on the streets. And I think you have seen -- folks have seen us. So many different creative and bold actions have happened during this time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are attempting to build a movement that is the opposite of everything the American system represents.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We aren't interested in gradualism when it comes to our basic right to live, right? We want it today. We want it yesterday. We wanted it decades ago.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I never imagined that we would be in this moment in my life. So anything is possible. I think if we run a good campaign. I think if we challenge and push, I think we could win certain reforms. I do.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Joining me from Ferguson, friend of the show, CNN political commentator Marc Lamont Hill.

You know, I was reading an article this morning about it being a year since Ferguson, since the first protests. And it put it this way, a year ago, black lives matter was a hashtag. Today, it is an important part of the fight for the democratic presidential nomination. I would say it's an important part of any party's nomination for president this year. Where does the movement go from here?

MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: The movement continues to build on this notion that black lives matter reaffirming the humanity of black and brown people everywhere, trying to challenge not just mind sets, but policy. Trying to change the way the state engages its citizens. All of this part of the movement.

The fact that 365 days later, this is a central part of the conversation, is a testimony to what's possible when people organize, when people act and when people commit to making the world different and better. I salute the black live matter movement for that amount of occurrence, but also for the work they continue to do today.

HARLOW: Yesterday, we saw some members of the movement, if you will. They disrupted. They were honoring Michael Brown. They distracted a Bernie Sanders event in Seattle, forced him off the stage eventually, for what he said last month when he said all lives matter. We have heard if through the other candidates say that. Some people take offense to that. These are activists with a message that many people agree with.

Do you think that some of these tactics work to draw attention or do they alienate those that are behind them but don't like to see this?

HILL: Well, the tactics clearly worked because we are talking about it. Bernie Sanders is now talking about race issues when before he was only talking about economic issues. And Martin O'Malley is talking about these issues now. Even Republican debates, they had only about ten seconds of it but they were forced to talk about race in way that they otherwise would not have.

It is a big deal that they are doing it in this way. It's not going to be polite. But civil disobedience isn't supposed to be polite. If everyone is comfortable, you are not making change. You are not achieving justice. I'm glad that they're making people uncomfortable. I'm glad that these actions are unsettling people. And I hope that it's not just Martin O'Malley and Bernie Sanders, but it is also Hillary and it is also whoever becomes the Republican nominee because ultimately, the national conversation at all moments has to be about black lives matter. Not all lives matter, but black lives matter at this moment in history.

HARLOW: Marc Lamont Hill, joining us live from Ferguson today. Thank you very much, Marc.

HILL: Pleasure.

HARLOW: Still ahead, a California woman brutally attacked and murdered. One of the suspects an undocumented immigrant with a long arrest record. How the case is adding new fuel to the debate over illegal immigration in this country.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:30:04] HARLOW: Two men in California facing murder, torture and rape charges in the brutal death of a woman. This murder once again bringing out critics of this country's immigration system. One of the suspects, Victor Martinez was in the country illegally and had multiple run-ins with the law. Why was he never deported?

CNN's Sara Ganim repots.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SARA GANIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The murder of 64-year-old Marilyn Ferris was unspeakably brutal. Police say two men, 20-year- old Jose Via Gomez and 29-year-old Victor Arellano Martinez-Ramirez broke into her home while she was sleeping, beat her over the head with a hammer, sexually assaulted and then murdered her.

Even more devastating, the Santa Maria police chief says is that Martinez-Ramirez is an illegal immigrant from Mexico who has been arrested several times, but never deported. Frustrating Santa Maria police Chief Ralph Martin.

CHIEF RALPH MARTIN, SANTA MARIA POLICE DEPARTMENT: Two weeks before this murder, Santa Maria police officers arrested him for possession of meth. And you know we have to do? We had to site him out. That's the problem with the system.

GANIM: Martinez-Ramirez's arrest record in the region goes back six years.

In 2009, he was arrested for driving without a license. But immigrations and customs enforcement or ICE didn't request a detainer which would keep someone who is in custody from being released by police.

In 2014, he was charged with felony assault and attempted sexual assault. But when the charge was dropped down to a misdemeanor battery, the sheriff's department determined it didn't meet a federal court standard for holding someone because ICE never provided a court order or a warrant.

And on July 17th of this year, another arrest for possession of a weapon and of meth. Martinez-Ramirez was sentenced to 30 days in jail which he was set to start serving in October. ICE again didn't request a detainer. Instead, Martinez-Ramirez was released just four days before the attack on Ferris.

MARTIN: I think this is a national issue. I think it starts in Washington D.C. with this administration that we see and their policies. I am not limits to say that from Washington D.C. to Sacramento, there's a blood trail into the bedroom of Marilyn Ferris.

GANIM: Both Via Gomez and Martinez-Ramirez are now being held on bond, charged with burglary, rape, and murder. Ferris' family released a statement thanking the community and said she was a quote "much-loved member of our family and she will be greatly missed."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GANIM: Now, just a little while ago ICE also released a statement about this saying, given the seriousness of the allegations associated with this individual's arrest, U.S. immigration and customs enforcement is monitoring the case closely and lodged a formal request with the custodial law enforcement agency seeking notification in advance of his release or transfer from local custody.

It's also worth noting, Poppy, that we reached out to Martinez- Ramirez' attorney and he has not gotten back with us.

HARLOW: But you have spoken with another immigration attorney who said, one of the biggest problems here because the questions why does this keep happening, the biggest problems comes down to communication.

GANIM: Right. Second weekend in a row we're talking about a woman brutally murdered inside her own home by someone who is an illegal immigrant. And yes, I talked to an attorney who said look, communication is a huge issue.

Also second weekend in a row where there's finger pointing between the sheriff's department or the local police and ICE and whose job it was to make sure this person was not out on the streets.

HARLOW: Because you got the local police from it, but then you got federal agents of ICE. And you're saying there's different priorities there.

GANIM: Definitely different priorities and one of them is always money. Who's going to pay to keep this person behind bars while ICE looks into the case, decides on whether or not he should be detained. And if there's a detainer and whether or not it applies to federal law because there is federal law, Poppy, that could be interpreted to say that unless someone is being held for other reasons, it's against their constitutional rights to be held only on an ICE detainer.

HARLOW: All right, Sara Ganim, reporting. Thank you very much. We'll keep you posted on what we hear back from the attorney there.

Immigration reform, as you know, has been a huge topic so far in the presidential debate. It was frankly brought to the fore by Donald Trump's announcement speech back in June.

Let's talk about it with Matt Schlapp. He worked in the George W. Bush White House. Obviously, there was a big push on immigration there. Thank you for being with me.

MATT SCHLAPP, FORMER WHITE HOUSE POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Great to be with you, Poppy.

HARLOW: Let's talk about what Donald Trump has said frankly from when he took that podium in June and made that long announcement speech that he was running and talked about illegal immigration in this country followed by a number of cases like the one that Sara just reported on. Does that help? Does it get more done?

SCHLAPP: Well, absolutely. I mean, I think he said at the debate that if it wasn't for his announcement and his focus at the border that we wouldn't be talking about the downside of immigration. The downside of immigration is an illegal immigration mess that we're in with the completely broken immigration system. And of course when you're not controlling your borders and you are not controlling who comes into the country and who overstays their visas, you can have all kinds of bad elements including very, very horrible criminals, which you've been reporting on, as you said, for the last two weeks. It's a tragedy. And I think there's a wakeup call across America, Republican, Democrat, independent, that we've got to get on top of this immigration system because for those of us who were pro- immigration, we'll never get there in legislation when there's all these criminals running around.

[17:35:37] HARLOW: So these are criminals, an alleged criminals who already in the country, right?

SCHLAPP: Yes. HARLOW: So they're part of the 11 million undocumented immigrants in

this country that so many of the candidates have been asked, how do you deal with the ones who are already here?

SCHLAPP: Right.

HARLOW: And most have not put forward a point-by-point plan, a number of them. Dana Bash asked Governor Christie. He said, that's my next big topic. She asked Donald Trump. He hasn't come out point by point on this yet. Are you frustrated, disappointed at all that we haven't heard more specifics?

SCHLAPP: I think we do have to get there on immigration and a whole range of topics. Immigration was -- we spent more time on immigration in that debate than any other topics. So I would like to see to get to a whole bunch of topics. But on immigration, you say 11 million people who are in this country illegally. I'll be honest with you, for all of us who try to figure out what that number is, I don't think any of us have a good handle on it.

HARLOW: And that's from the latest Pew study. But yes, there is a lot to debate over how many it is.

GANIM: No, I'm not quickly with you. I'm just saying, generally, I don't think the government knows how many people are here illegally. I don't think they know how many of them are committing crimes. I think we have always assumed that immigration would somewhat take care of itself and our economic needs would poll more help from the southern border and around the world. And now we are finding there is a terrible way to run your immigration system.

HARLOW: Let me ask you one more thing. What you hear a lot of in terms of the debate within the GOP about immigration is even those who are for reform often get pointed to by competitors and say you're for amnesty. Does that harm progress?

SCHLAPP: Yes, I think amnesty is a really problematic policy because it's basically saying the people who came here illegally or overstayed their visa, hey, it's OK. We are going to wave a magic wand and you can stay. And I think it's a terrible policy because there's a lot of people from overseas who want to come to America, maybe to become citizens, maybe just to work for a period of time. And they actually have to wait in line while the illegals come here and hopscotch in line. And so, I think --

HARLOW: But that's not what I'm asking. What I'm asking sir is, do you think that those who are for some sort of path to citizenship or reform in one way or another that are criticize for saying you want amnesty, you want amnesty. Does that sort of debate over that part of it lead to less progress as a whole?

SCHLAPP: Well, I guess all I was saying is amnesty in and of itself is a problem. So those who want a pathway, it can't be just a free pass. They have to go back to their country. They have to go through a lot of steps. We're going to have to do all that if we are ever going to get to a point where we can pass some kind of immigration reform. So amnesty, in of itself, I don't think any Republican is going to be for that.

HARLOW: Matt Schlapp, thank you.

SCHLAPP: Thank you.

HARLOW: Quick break. We'll have much more after this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER (voice-over): The (INAUDIBLE) is the west link with (INAUDIBLE) reaching every its sources and a crown of misty mountains. This is known as one of the dreamiest destinations in China.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The landscape of (INAUDIBLE) was so interesting. The cuisine is so delicate and original in flavor. And I really wanted to explore all the foods there.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Dragon well tea, more commonly known by Chinese name, Long Ching (ph), is a green tea that thrives in (INAUDIBLE) white sand soil and shaded mountains.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: He was comparing it to chicken soup, how there's a lot of different vitamin and flavor in one little broth cup of tea. So, that's why it's Long Ching (ph) tea especially nutritious.

Tea in China is treated with the utmost respect, from the picking to the preparation. Everything must be precise.

And instantly, you smell the aroma from the tea is so delicate. It's got a very toasty flair. So it is definitely goes with food very well. And then particularly, this green tea, it's almost like a herb. So it is -- I don't think of it as tradition western way of thinking of tea.

In Chinese food, we incorporate tea into our everyday meal, so much more than western way. Maybe western way people normally would drink tea after a meal. But in Chinese cuisine, you would drink it together with a meal. And actually, it is the tea side of the Chinese cuisine is just as important as the food itself.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:45:11] HARLOW: Tonight, the worlds of sports and sports broadcasting are mourning a legend. NFL hall of famer Frank Gifford passed away today at the age of 84. He was a former New York Giants star who also had a storied career as a sports caster. He was a part of the Monday night football team that included Howard Casell (ph). And he was the husband of "Today" show anchor Kathie Lee Gifford. She tweeted, deeply grateful to all for your outpouring of grace. We are steadfast in our faith and finding comfort in knowing where Frank is." Joining me on the phone, a very good friend of his, and also another

member of the hall of fame is famed coach Mike Ditka.

Thank you for being with me, sir. I'm so sorry for your loss.

MIKE DITKA, FRIEND OF FRANK GIFFORD (on the phone): Well, you know, we're all getting to the end of the road, you know. Frank had a great life. He brought a lot of joy to a lot of people. He was an exceptional individual on and off the field. He was a real credit to the game of football. And you know, he came, you know, he was kind of a guy that came in the '60s when the NFL needed that -- you know, that guy and he was in New York. He was that guy. He was like the pinup guy of the national football league. He was a good-looking guy, but he was a great, talented football player. Old number 16 was - he was pretty good. You know, we got the best of him. In '63, we beat him in the championship game, 14-10. But Frank Gifford was a more than a football player. He was a special man. He was really great for the game.

HARLOW: I know you played against him. But also some of your best moments were as sportscasters together. I recall he once said something like he thought you were going to eat his clipboard.

DITKA: Well, Frank - well, you know, I'm a little bit off the wall. So I could have done anything in those days. Who knows? But, he was always a gentleman. He, you know what? He would kind of look out for me. Because when I was kind of new in that business, he kind of kept me on the right track so I didn't make too big a fool out of myself.

HARLOW: You say that he did a lot that other folks today, other people --

DITKA: Well, I just -- I think he came into the game when they needed somebody, you know. There was Frank Gifford, there was Jim Bound (ph). They were people that came in at that time that really were -- they were some of the catalyst of what made the NFL what it is. He would walk to Green bay there was horning. There was Lombardi. And I think Frank was part of that group. But he was, you know, he was an outstanding football -- very versatile. I mean, you know, my goodness. He played -- you know, he was a running back, a receiver, you know, he could throw the football. He could kick the football. He was a very, very talented individual. But besides all that, he was really a nice guy. Even if you had to play against him, you kind of pulled for him.

HARLOW: Look at that. You can't say that about many folks, can you?

Mike Ditka, thank you so much for helping us remember him tonight.

We will be right back.

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[17:51:44] HARLOW: This week on "THE HUNT" with John Walsh, a leader of a religious sect who secretly abused some of his young followers, no one believed his victims, not even their own parents. I want to warn you the following clip contains disturbing content that may not be appropriate for children.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was very affectionate with everybody, and then the kids, he was really like cuddle and he will give you hugs, kisses to just felt like a grandpa. But then sometime his kisses got weird.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was about 12 years old.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was between 12 and 14 years old.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was 11 years old when had the abuse started happening.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The first time that he put his hand on my shirt I remember -- I felt like it was exactly what I thought it was. I thought it was inappropriate touch. And it was pretty devastating to me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Criminologist and behavioral analyst Casey Jordan is with me.

You have been watching this case, following this case, so troubling that the parents of these young victims don't believe their own kids.

CASEY JORDAN, CRIMINOLOGIST: Well, they didn't believe them at first. And then when one of the girls journaled about it and her mother discovered the journal it was pretty clear she would not be writing about something that she made up. And that is when the ultimate betrayal happened when the mother basically said, well, it is the swammy G (ph). He said he is our God on earth, our God incarnate. So if you're the favored beneficiaries of that kind of attention, you should just learned to enjoy it. So it was not just that they didn't believe them, but that they were in denial themselves and not aiding their daughters in getting justice for all the molestation they were suffering.

HARLOW: It's believe did his followers as you will see in the episode tonight, his followers helped him escape after he was convicted on 20 counts. Why? What is the mindset there?

JORDAN: You know, you can call it a cult in personality, you know, it's that his followers believe that he really is a representative of God. And that this could not be happening, it just couldn't be true that he would molest these girls that he had basically been like a grandfather figure to since they had been brought into this organization as very young children.

So the idea they would make these accusations. They had to blame the girls, blame them for lying. I mean, the parents of these girls actually went into the courtroom and sat there in the gallery, disbelieving their daughters and supporting the defendant. That fact came up with a million dollars bond cash which after he was convicted, they went ahead and forfeited while they helped him get to Mexico so he could go to India where he is still remains a fugitive.

HARLOW: Is it likely that he had victims outside of this sort of sect, if he will.

JORDAN: Yes, it is very likely, Poppy, because he would be a (INAUDIBLE), different than a pedophiles. Pedophiles prey on children who are (INAUDIBLE), usually to about the age of 11 or 12. So his victims were 11 to 15. That is his preference, young women, (INAUDIBLE), early adolescence, which probably helped him justifies it more to him in that he thinks of them as young women. And that sort of behavior is usually found in men who are just hardwired wrong. He is not going to cure himself. He can probably control it and contain it for a little while. But I worry that if he is back in India which is where we think he is, he has a new sect, a new organization and it's happening to young girls over there right now. And their parents would be even less equipped to defend them and get justice in India.

HARLOW: How likely do you think it is that these families will get justice?

JORDAN: These three young women have an incredible bond because they know they're not lying. They have some psychological and emotional issues that they are helping to heal each other. Because they lost their families, their communities. They lost everything when they told the truth. So will they get justice? I think that if someone in India sees this and recognizes the swammy G (ph) and says I know that man and I'm going to do the right thing and turns him in, these young women will find justice.

HARLOW: See the new episode of "THE HUNT" this evening, right here on CNN.

Casey, thank you. Thank you very much. It is fascinating and very disturbing. That is tonight, 9:00 eastern only right here on CNN.

Still ahead at the top of the hour, Donald Trump making no apologies. His response to the backlash over what he said about FOX host Megyn Kelly.

Also his new attack against the only woman in the Republican race.

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