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Interview With South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham; Opportunity for Hillary Clinton?; Republican Party's Trump Problem; Trump Talks Immigration; Trust Issues Dog Hillary Clinton; Scott Walker's Sons Speak Out. Aired 9-10a ET

Aired July 12, 2015 - 09:00   ET




DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Donald Trump's relentless rhetoric on immigration...

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: These are people that shouldn't have been in this country. They flow in like water.

BASH: ... is drawing huge crowds, but threatening to tear the GOP apart. Can the party contain Trump?

And has the Republican infighting created an opening for Hillary Clinton?

HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: They range across the spectrum of being either grudgingly welcome or hostile toward immigrants.

BASH: She reacts in an exclusive CNN interview.

It all has presidential hopeful Lindsey Graham fighting mad.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't need a lecture from Donald Trump or anybody else about border security.

BASH: He will be here next.

Plus, the best political team on television is here with insights from the campaign trail.


BASH: I'm Dana Bash in Washington, where the state of our union is Trumped.

The billionaire dominated the week, swinging through the political establishment like a wrecking ball. His comments about undocumented immigrants raised hackles and roiled corporate giants. But make no mistake about it. Plenty of people like what they hear. Last night in Phoenix, several thousand people showed up to watch a rollicking and at times rambling hour-long diatribe that was part politics, part performance art.


TRUMP: The polls just came out, and I'm tied with Jeb Bush. And I said, oh, that's too bad. How could I be tied with this guy? He's terrible. He's terrible.



BASH: This week, the head of the Republican National Committee asked Trump to tone it down, to no avail, leaving the Grand Old Party fretting over how to manage their unlikely breakout star.

Joining me now from New Hampshire is fellow Republican presidential candidate and South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham.

Senator, thanks for joining me this morning.

I want to start off with the fact that, look, a lot of people in your party are trying to laugh off Donald Trump. But when he gets those kinds of crowds, you have to take him seriously, don't you?

GRAHAM: Well, I'm very worried about where we're headed as a party. I don't think this is the way to get the Latino vote. At the end of the day, this is a defining moment for the Republican Party.

There's a lot of frustration with broken borders. I get that. I have been trying to fix the border for 10 years. I would double the Border Patrol, triple the number of drones. All the hijackers who attacked -- attacked us on 9/11 were visa overstays. So it's more than just the border. You have got to control your visa program.

But, as to Donald Trump, he has said, openly, repeatedly, that he believes that most illegal immigrants are drug dealers and rapists, and there may be a few among them that are decent people. After 10 years of working on illegal immigration, I have come to conclude that most illegal immigrants are decent, hardworking people, and some are criminals.

This is a defining moment for the Republican Party. We need to reject this. To all the candidates who think that Donald Trump is telling the truth, I think you have lost your way.

As to the Republican Party, if we do not reject this way of thinking clearly, without any ambiguity, we will have lost our way. We will have lost the moral authority, in my view, to govern this great nation. And I hope we will reject this kind of thinking.

BASH: But how do you do that? Look, he talked about the fact that he is awakening a new silent majority. And the fact is that, when he talks about building a wall and sending undocumented immigrants back to Mexico, that has a lot of appeal with a lot of the people in your party.


BASH: And you know that.

GRAHAM: Well, I can tell you the majority of my party wants to secure the border, control who gets a job. They come here to work.

What happened in San Francisco is appalling. It's a good example of why you need to fix the system. But to say that all the 11 million illegal immigrants for the most part are rapists and drug dealers is not only offensive at every level. You're telling the Hispanic community, who are friends, neighbors, and relatives of the illegal immigrant population, exactly what we think of you.

BASH: And, Senator...

GRAHAM: And I'm not going to be part of that.

BASH: Senator, you said that the Republicans need to reject it.


BASH: As you know, your party chairman put in a phone call, a private phone call to Donald Trump, asking him to tone down his rhetoric on immigration. Is that enough, or does he need to do more?

GRAHAM: Chairman Priebus has done a good job of rebuilding a party that was in tatters. Financially, we were broke. He's rebuilt the infrastructure there.

He did a postmortem on the 2012 election, explaining to all of us that we have hurt ourselves with Hispanics. I expect that he will do more. At the end of the day, for us to win a national election, we have to do better with Hispanics. And for us to have the moral authority as a party to govern a great nation, we have to reject this demagoguery. If we don't, we will lose, and we will deserve to lose.


BASH: But, just to be clear, are you saying that the Republican Party chairman should say publicly what he said privately to Donald Trump?

GRAHAM: I think it's not only incumbent upon the chairman, but anyone in a responsible position with the Republican Party needs to say the following to the American people.

We do not agree with Donald Trump when he says that most illegal immigrants are drug dealers and rapists. We have quite the opposite view, that this is a hard problem that needs to be solved, but most of these people are decent, hardworking folks coming from poor countries to try to improve their lives, and we need to create order out of chaos.

If we can't get this right, Dana, then we're going to keep digging a hole, and it's going to cost us the 2016 election, at a time when we could win.

BASH: What has he done to the conversation within the Republican nominating process?

GRAHAM: I think he's created a defining moment for all candidates. There are some candidates who agree with Donald Trump that want to make him their vice president. There are some people who love Donald Trump and say that he's speaking the truth.

What I think he's doing is being a demagogue. I think he's uninformed about the situation regarding the illegal immigrant population. What happened in San Francisco is appalling. But it does not represent the 11 million. And I think he's hijacked the debate. I think he's a wrecking ball for the future of the Republican Party with the Hispanic community. And we need to push back.

BASH: What if he says, you know what, you pushed me too hard, if he doesn't get the nomination, and I'm going to go run as a third-party candidate? Aren't you just then handing the keys to the White House to the Democrats?

GRAHAM: I have learned a long time that I can't control others. I'm not responsible for what he says.

I'm responsible for what I believe. My party is responsible for who we are. This is a defining moment in the future of the Republican Party. We can't worry about what Donald Trump might do. We have to focus on what we should do. And, as a party, we should reject what he says, because it's not true.

And if we don't reject it, we have lost the moral authority, in my view, to govern this country.

BASH: OK. Let's turn abroad to an issue I know that you have been very outspoken about, which is Iran.

This week, you told Jake Tapper that, as president, you would move to not only destroy Iran's nuclear program, but even take out its air force and navy if they went too far with this nuclear program. Do you really think that Americans have the stomach for another war in the Middle East?

GRAHAM: What I said is, if the Iranians walk away from the table, and they tried to break out and get a nuclear weapon, if we can't end their program peacefully, and they try to break out, as president, I would stop them.

The worst possible nightmare for the world at large is the ayatollahs in Iran with nuclear weapons. So, if I'm president, to the Iranians, if you try to break out and get a nuclear weapon, we're going to stop you. We're going to put all the force on the table that's necessary to keep you from getting a nuclear weapon, because I'm afraid they would use it.

If they get a nuclear weapon, the Sunni Arabs will want a nuclear weapon of their own, and we're on the road to a nuclear arms race in the Mideast.

You know, when Dunford said that Russia was the biggest threat to the United States, I understand that, to a point. But if Iran gets a nuclear weapon, they're the biggest threat to the world. And I would not allow that to happen, and they need to know that.

BASH: Now, negotiators are back at it in Vienna, trying to reach a deal with Iran diplomatically. If they don't reach a deal -- I know you have your own views on whether or not it would be good or bad -- but if they don't reach a deal, then what would happen?

GRAHAM: Right.

Well, I would keep the interim deal in place. I would allow a new president to try to close out the deal. The interim deal has worked better than I thought it would, so hats off to John Kerry. I think the best thing for the world and our country is to let a new president have a chance to conclude the deal with Iran, because Obama's so weak in the eyes of the Iranians and our friends at large, to keep the interim deal in place.

But if they sign this deal, they're going to ensure that Iran's a nuclear power. Under this deal, if Iran does everything we ask, at the passage of time, they're going to be a nuclear nation, which is going create a nuclear arms race. And if you give them any money without them changing their behavior, you're funding terrorism.

BASH: Can I just underscore one thing that you just said, a Republican who is incredibly outspoken against the way the administration is handling Iran? You said that the interim deal that the secretary of state has negotiated is good and that it should be kept in place?

GRAHAM: Yes. . Yes.

I think a good outcome is to basically leave the interim deal in place. I think everybody running for president, except Rand Paul, could negotiate a better deal than the Obama administration, because when they drew that red line with Assad and did nothing about it, they're weak in the eyes of the Iranians. They don't believe Obama would use military force.


So, give the next president a chance to conclude a final agreement with the Iranians. And please understand, of all the mistakes we can make as a world and as a nation, getting a bad deal with Iran is the worst possible outcome, because it's going to start a nuclear arms race.

And under the agreement they're talking about, you're ensuring they're going to become a nuclear power. The goal was to dismantle their program. Now we're going to lock it in place. So let's let somebody new negotiate with the Iranians, because Obama is so flawed as a negotiator.

BASH: Senator Lindsey Graham, thank you so much for joining me. Appreciate it.

GRAHAM: Thank you.

BASH: And when we come back: Hillary Clinton on the record, answering our questions, in her first national interview since she started her campaign.


HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I turned over everything I was obligated to turn over, and then I moved on.



BASH: Welcome back.

Hillary Clinton is campaigning across the country, but she's dropping in this week on some folks you would think she has all locked up, congressional Democrats.


But her lunch on Tuesday could be a little bit awkward, thanks to one man, Senator Bernie Sanders, who's been giving Clinton a run for her money on the trail with his huge crowds and his populist message.

But when she sat down with CNN's Brianna Keilar for her first national TV interview, Clinton insisted there's no bad blood.


CLINTON: Well, first of all, I always thought this would be a competitive race.

So, I am happy to have a chance to get out and run my campaign as I see fit and let other candidates do exactly the same. I feel very good about where we are in Iowa. We are signing up thousands of volunteers, people committed to caucus for us. We have a committed supporter in every one of the 1,600 precincts.

And one of the things that I learned last time is, it's organize, organize, organize. So I couldn't be happier about my campaign.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Senator Sanders has talked about how, if he's president, he would raise taxes. In fact, he said to CNN's Jake Tapper, he would raise them substantially higher than they are today, on big corporations, on wealthy Americans.

Would you?

CLINTON: Well, I will be laying out my own economic policies. Again, everybody has to run his or her own campaign. And I'm going to be telling the American people what I propose and how I think it will work. And then we'll let voters make up their minds.

KEILAR: Are -- is raising taxes on the table? CLINTON: I'm going to put out my policies, and I'll other people

speak to their policies, because I think we have to both grow the economy faster and fairer, so we have to do what will actually work in the short term, the medium term and the long term.

I will be making a speech about my economic proposals on Monday. And then I look forward to the debate about them.

KEILAR: We see in our recent poll that nearly six in 10 Americans say they don't believe that you're honest and trustworthy. Do you see any role that you've had in the sentiment that we've seen, where people are questioning whether you're trustworthy?

CLINTON: I can only tell you, Brianna, that this has been a theme that has been used against me and my husband for many, many years.

And, at the end of the day, I think voters sort it all out. I have great confidence. I trust the American voter.

KEILAR: One of the issues that has eroded some trust that we've seen is the issue of your e-mail practices while you were secretary of state. I think there's a lot of people who don't understand what your thought process was on that.

So, can you tell me the story of how you decided to delete 33,000 e- mails and how that deletion was executed?

CLINTON: Well, let's start from the beginning. Everything I did was permitted. There was no law, there was no regulation, there was nothing that did not give me the full authority to decide how I was going to communicate.

Previous secretaries of state have said they did the same thing. And people across the government knew that I used one device. Maybe it was because I am not the most technically capable person and wanted to make it as easy as possible.

KEILAR: But you said they -- that they did the same thing, that they used a personal server and...

CLINTON: Well, personal e-mail.

KEILAR: ... when facing a subpoena, deleted e-mails from them?

CLINTON: You know, you're starting with so many assumptions that are -- I've never had a subpoena. There is nothing -- again, let's take a deep breath here. Everything I did was permitted by law and regulation. I had one device.

When I mailed anybody in the government, it would go into the government system. Now, I didn't have to turn over anything. I chose to turn over 55,000 pages, because I wanted to go above and beyond what was expected of me, because I knew the vast majority of everything that was official already was in the State Department system.

KEILAR: Let's talk now about Republicans. There are so many.


KEILAR: But, right now, the front-runner...


CLINTON: It's a big crew.

KEILAR: It is a big crew.

Right now, the front-runner is Jeb Bush. Can you believe that a quarter-century after your husband was elected, there could be another Bush-Clinton race?

CLINTON: Well, we'll see.

That's up to, first, the Republicans on his side and the Democrats on my side. What's great about America is anybody can run for president. That is literally true. And you have to go out and you have to do what everybody else does. You have to make your case. You have to have your agenda. You have to raise the money. You have to work really hard.

KEILAR: Donald Trump is also creating quite a lot of commotion on the other side. He's a friend of yours, has been over the years. He donated to your Senate campaign, to the Clinton Foundation.

What's your reaction to his recent comments that some Mexican immigrants are rapists and criminals?

CLINTON: I'm very disappointed in those comments.

And I -- I feel very bad and very disappointed with him and with the Republican Party for not responding immediately and saying: Enough. Stop it. But they are all in the -- you know, in the same general area on immigration.


You know, they don't want to provide a path to citizenship. They range across a spectrum of being either grudgingly welcome or hostile toward immigrants.

KEILAR: But what about Jeb Bush's approach to that? It's different, certainly, than Donald Trump's and...


CLINTON: Well, he doesn't -- he doesn't believe in a path to citizenship. If he did at one time, he no longer does.

KEILAR: Have you given any thought to the woman who should be on the $10 bill?

(LAUGHTER) CLINTON: You know, I am very torn about it. I want a woman on a bill. I don't know why they picked the $10 bill. Some people are now agitating for the $20 bill.

KEILAR: The $20. Do you think it should be the $20?

CLINTON: You know, I want a woman on the bill. And I think that it might be easier to change the $20 than it is to change the $10. But we'll see.

And I don't like the idea that, as a compromise, you would basically have two people on the same bill. One would be a woman. That sounds pretty second-class to me. So, I think a woman should have her own bill. And it may be more -- more appropriate to look at the $20 than the $10. I don't know. We'll see.

KEILAR: Secretary Clinton, thank you so much for talking with us.

CLINTON: Thank you. My pleasure. Thanks.


BASH: When we come back: Donald Trump, increasingly isolated by his own party after his campaign against illegal immigration, could he end up running as an independent? The Ross Perot scenario -- after the break.



BASH: Welcome back.

The Donald drew a huge crowd last night in Arizona and floated a new proposal on how to manage immigration.


TRUMP: Every time Mexico really intelligently sends people over, we charge Mexico $100,000 for every person they send over.



BASH: But does Trump have his own problem with undocumented workers?

Our Anderson Cooper tried to get to the bottom of it.


ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: "The Washington Post," as you know, say that some of the workers building this beautiful hotel that you're building down in Washington, D.C., are illegal. They talked to 15 workers. They said a number of those 15 came here legally. Through asylum, they are now legal, but that a number of them did say they are illegal. Isn't it hypocritical for you, saying that illegal immigration is killing this country, to be employing illegal immigrants?

TRUMP: Well, I read the story.

And, by the way, that story does not name any names. I would love for them if they could give us the names. But they said they spoke to one or two, and -- but they don't name them. They don't even know if it's true.

COOPER: Well, what they say is several of the men who hail mostly from El Salvador, Honduras, Guatemala have earned citizenship or legal status through immigration programs targeting Central Americans fleeing civil wars or natural disasters. Others quietly acknowledge that they remain in the country illegally.


TRUMP: They have to give us the names, because we have...


COOPER: They are not going to give you names.

TRUMP: No, no, no, they have to give us the names.

And I have to say this. We believe so strongly -- I hired a very big contractor, one of the most prestigious, one of the best in the world, to build the building. It's their responsibility to make sure. They have...


COOPER: Doesn't the buck stop with you, though?

TRUMP: Yes, it does.

COOPER: You're paying their salary.

TRUMP: Oh, absolutely.

We have gone out of way to make sure that everybody in that building is legal, and we do have some that were -- that became legal. And wait a minute. We have some, many, I think, that became -- frankly, me, you, everybody, I mean, ultimately, we were all sort of in the group of immigrant, right?

COOPER: Right.

TRUMP: But we have done that to the absolute letter of the law. We're very, very careful.


COOPER: But if "The Washington Post" can go there and talk to 15 people and find some illegal immigrants...

TRUMP: They haven't shown us anything. I wish they would give us some names. We would get them out immediately.

COOPER: But you have got a guy -- you must have a guy on the job site.

TRUMP: We have more than one guy.


TRUMP: And we check it probably more carefully than ever job that was ever built.

COOPER: Let me read you what some of your fellow Republicans have said.

Bush says: "Trump is wrong in this. He's doing this. He's not a stupid guy. Don't think he thinks every Mexican crossing the border is a rapist. He's doing this to inflame and incite and to draw attention."

TRUMP: So, look, Bush is weak on immigration. Forget about his stance on Common Core, which is a total disaster. He's very weak on immigration. And that's his prerogative, if he wants to be.

COOPER: Marco Rubio: "Trump's comments are not just offensive and inaccurate, but also divisive."

TRUMP: Marco Rubio is somebody who is extremely weak on immigration. He all of a sudden toughens his stance because his poll numbers went down. If he ever got elected, you would have people flowing across the border.

COOPER: Ted Cruz, who has backed you up on immigration...

TRUMP: Well, I have great respect for the fact that he had the courage to back me up and to say that what I'm saying is right.

And all I'm saying and all he's saying is that we have to stop illegal immigration.

COOPER: How much has this cost you? I mean..

TRUMP: A lot. Oh, it cost me a lot.

COOPER: Can you put a dollar figure on the loss of...


TRUMP: It is a lot of money. But, fortunately, I am very rich. It doesn't matter to me. Does it matter? No. What matters to me is making America great again.

COOPER: You don't have a dollar figure, this is costing you X-amount?

TRUMP: No. But it's -- you know, it is sort of -- sort of funny.

One of them was, big headline, "Trump loses NASCAR." You know what they were doing? They were renting a ballroom from me for one night.

COOPER: And they already have...


TRUMP: There's a banquet hall. And they left a deposit. And now I have it rented already to somebody else.

COOPER: So, is it just small potatoes or is it -- is...


TRUMP: There was another one. There was another one.

Fortunately, it is not big for

COOPER: I think I know the answer to this question. Would you accept a vice presidential position...


COOPER: ... if it didn't work out for you for president?

TRUMP: Would I -- look...

COOPER: I mean, you're doing great right now, but...

TRUMP: I'm doing great, but -- but it's not that I wouldn't. It's not -- it's a phenomenal position. I -- you know, and I think it's a very powerful position.

It's not for me. I love what I'm doing. I would rather be doing this.


TRUMP: I have buildings all over the world.

I'm not doing this to be president. I'm doing this to make America great again.

COOPER: Do you rule out the idea of running as an independent party candidate or third-party candidate if for some reason you don't get the GOP nomination?

TRUMP: Everybody asks me to do it. I have had so many people saying, would you run as an independent? Would you run as a third party candidate? And I think, you know, they see the kind of votes, I'd get a lot of votes.

The best way of defeating the Democrats, and probably Hillary, I think it's going to be Hillary, to run as a Republican. If I do the third party thing it would be I think very bad for the Republicans. I think it would be very bad in terms of beating the Democrats. And we have to win.


BASH: Trump says he will continue campaigning in the southwest today, even though it means canceling an appearance tonight at the Trump- owned "Miss USA Pageant."

What will he say next? You never know. And what will it mean for the Republican Party? Our round table is going to weigh in after the break.



[09:35:12] TRUMP: The silent majority is back and we're going to take the country back.


BASH: That was Donald Trump yesterday in Arizona addressing what he calls the silent majority. And he's left us with a lot to talk about.

Joining me now is CNN political commentator Ana Navarro, CNN political commentator Dan Pfeiffer, our own Brianna Keilar and Heritage Action CEO Mike Needham. So much to discuss.

Let's just start with the whole idea of what Donald Trump is saying. Ana, I should say to everybody, you are a supporter of Jeb Bush, let's put that out there.

ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: And not a supporter of Donald Trump let's put that out there.

BASH: Yes. Exactly. You know, look, he is saying that he is the only candidate who has the guts to articulate some of the things that may not be politically correct, but a lot of people feel. What do you say to that?

NAVARRO: I think you cannot ignore the fact that he is gathering thousands of people and that he is speaking to a segment of the population. I don't think he's representative of the Republican Party.

I'm very proud of all of the candidates who come out and distance themselves, who come out and condemn his comments. Lindsey graham we saw do it again today. Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio, Chris Christie. Rick Perry put out an entire video on this telling him look, you know what, you do a lot of talk, talk, talk, but I've actually walked the border. I've actually had to deal with this.

So you know, I just think that you cannot paint the Republican Party with such a wide brush. Yes, there is a segment to whom he's speaking to. There's no doubt about that. You can't argue with that.

BASH: All right. So Mike, we talked to someone else in the Republican Party and that's you. You and your group oppose anything that has anything to do with what you call amnesty.


BASH: What do you think of the way Donald Trump is talking?

NEEDHAM: Donald Trump is a symptom of the problem in the Republican Party. It's a Republican Party establishment that is absolutely intellectually bankrupt in coming up with solutions that can make life better for all Americans, not just Hispanics, but all Americans. And a Republican Party establishment that makes certain promises to get elected and doesn't follow through on all of them.

This is a party that claims it wants to cut spending, yet passed half a trillion dollar spending increase. It claims it's going to take on Obamacare. Where is it on that? It claims it's against corporate cronyism yet wants to reauthorize --


BASH: Let's stick to immigration just for one second if we can.


BASH: Anything, my understanding, that any of these candidates support, from your point of view, that allows illegal immigrants to stay here is amnesty. And I know that you and your part of the Republican Party, your candidate and others, disagree with that?

NAVARRO: I do. I think one of the -- I think one of the really sad things about what's going on with Donald Trump is that he's exploiting this issue with, you know, the horrible tragedy that happened in San Francisco and we're not getting to the policy.

We should be having a serious policy discussion about immigration, and about sanctuary cities. I'm fine with eliminating sanctuary cities. Let's make it part of immigration reform so that, you know, a bleeding heart city like San Francisco are not taking the laws into their own hands. Frankly, there is absolutely no excuse why there should be multiple -- you know, felons with multiple felonies and convictions roaming the streets, despite the federal government asking for them to be turned over.

BASH: Dan Pfeiffer -- one second. How, you know, as a Democrat, how much does this split, which we just illustrated right here within the Republican Party, help your party?

NAVARRO: He's trying to control -- try not to get --


DAN PFEIFFER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I'm not even trying to control it.

BASH: That's an actual giggle.

PFEIFFER: I think as a Democrat Donald Trump should keep talking, we should put a camera on him 24/7. This is great for Democrats. But it does hit at a real issue here which is the, I think, on his right, Donald Trump is talking to a important powerful segment of the Republican Party. This nativist element, something that Sarah Palin started in 2008.

The Republicans have nursed this and used it to their benefit to win congressional elections in 2010 and 2014. And now it's coming home to roost. It's sort of like Dr. Frankenstein waking up and wondering, where did that monster come from? You know this is -- this is sort of something that they've created themselves.

NEEDHAM: There's absolutely nothing nativist about saying before we look at the people who are here illegally. Before we look at people for example who overstayed a visa which is fundamentally unfair to say you're going to stay in this country after overstaying a visa when the person who went home, followed the law, doesn't get the same opportunity to (INAUDIBLE) that we're going to fix the immigration system. That we're going to look at stuff like sanctuary cities. We're going to match supply and demand for labor.

Once you do that you can have a conversation about people who were here before. It's the dishonesty of immediately jumping to amnesty. Saying we're not going to actually solve the problems of our immigration system, we're just going to provide amnesty that causes people to lose trust in the party and creates the vacuum that allows somebody like Donald Trump --

NAVARRO: Mike, I don't know --


[09:39:52] NAVARRO: I don't know a single Republican who is running for president including Lindsey Graham, including Jeb Bush, including Marco Rubio who are supporting amnesty. They're supporting comprehensive immigration solutions.


NEEDHAM: Support the amnesty.

NAVARRO: But of course. You know, let's not demagogue the word amnesty. Amnesty is when you forgive everything. When you have a process where they have to go through lengthy tests, when they have to go through multiple obstacles, that is not amnesty.

Amnesty was what Ronald Reagan passed in the 1980s. Nothing that's being proposed now is amnesty.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: But what Hillary Clinton's campaign -- what Hillary Clinton's campaign is salivating over is the fact that she has a different position, whether it's you call -- what Jeb Bush's position is amnesty. But she believes in a full path to citizenship. And...

NAVARRO: Today. KEILAR: ...I think that she's doubling -- this is -- this is where

it's going to be. I think it's pretty clear this is where her stance is going to be for the election. And it works for her. Because her primary point of view here works in the general.

Unlike Republicans. You have -- her strategy is to make sure that as Republicans are struggling to navigate with the right side of their party, she is going to hold them there, and show that she --


BASH: I know what you're going to say. Hold that thought there (ph).

KEILAR: I've spoken with some Republicans and they say the issue with -- with Donald Trump is that he's like this human hand grenade on immigration, right? If you have to confront him, the risk of doing so is so tremendous.

BASH: We have to take a quick break. But before we do, how much trouble do you think it would be if Donald Trump is pushed so far that he says, you know what? I'm going to go and run in another party?

I mean, let's just actually quickly give your candidate credit where credit is due. He said he was going to raise a lot of money. He did, $103 million for his super PAC which completely dwarfs what Mitt Romney did four years ago for his super PAC. But if you're going to end up running against somebody who has, I don't know if you heard him say, he's pretty rich --


NAVARRO: No, we haven't heard him. He hasn't said it --


NAVARRO: How much concern do you all have as Republicans that he could do that and hand the keys to the White House --


NAVARRO: Look, it's impossible to control what Donald Trump does or what he says or what he runs as. Let's just remember that until a few years ago, he was a Democrat with Hillary Clinton sitting at the front pew of his wedding.

BASH: All right, Dan.

NEEDHAM: (INAUDIBLE) It's not just a Donald Trump (INAUDIBLE) the third party it's that people stay home, it's that other conservatives start a third party because they feel like there's no chance that the Republican Party will fight for real policy solutions that make life better for everyone.

BASH: OK. Hold that thought. A lot more to talk about and when we come back, is the veepstakes already under way? The potential number two that has politicos buzzing. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)


[09:46:49] HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I've never had a subpoena --

REP. TREY GOWDY (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: To state that you never received a subpoena, you did get one in March.


BASH: A war of words erupting over Hillary Clinton's exclusive interview here on CNN. And we're back with our panel.

Dan Pfeiffer, I'll start with you. The Democrat here, did Hillary Clinton step in it when she said she didn't receive the subpoena?

PFEIFFER: Well, I think she was technically correct but probably overly precise. Because if you spend the next few hours and days explaining what you mean that's probably not ideal obviously.

But she -- I think ultimately she achieved her strategic objective here which she'll probably survive. And do so in sort of end the media countdown clock for when will the interview start. And she got an opportunity to do what I know she really wanted to do which is paint the entire Republican Party with the Donald Trump brush.

So, I think all in all she did fine. Over the course of time she's going to have to, I think in these interviews use these more as an opportunity to get our message out and less like a -- a task to be endured. But that's an easy thing for an operative to say to a candidate.

BASH: OK. So, let's talk to the person who ended that sit-in waiting for the national interview. Congratulations, Brianna.

KEILAR: Thank you.

BASH: What was your read on how she handled the trust question in particular?

KEILAR: I was surprised that she didn't show a little more contrition. Because talking to Democrats, including Democrats who really want to see her in the White House, they'll say, she didn't handle the e-mail situation right. The Clinton Foundation controversy, that's also a self-inflicted wound. And so I'm surprised that she didn't give more on that.

You said she's technically correct. I would say actually she's technically incorrect to say, I've never had a subpoena. That's not correct.

If you put in the context, what the campaign will say is that I was asking her about facing a subpoena that she wiped her server, they'll say that's not true. But the other thing is, the campaign hasn't been clear about when she wiped her server of her work e-mails.

So there's no way to even really completely fact check what she's saying because they don't want to get into all of the details of those things. But I did think on the e-mail answer there were a number of things that didn't stand -- that didn't pass the fact check. Where, you know, she's basically arguing here, you know, I didn't delete the e-mails while under a subpoena.

When your argument is, I wiped my server but it wasn't when I was under a subpoena I don't know that you're on some tremendous moral high ground.

BASH: Really quick from both of you, was there a moment for Republicans saying, oh, that was good? We're in trouble.

NEEDHAM: Probably too much of one.

Look, Hillary Clinton is not trustworthy. Politicians aren't trustworthy. And you're not going to win in 2016 by just asserting something that's built into most people's baseline that they (ph) can't trust Hillary Clinton. You have got to show that you actually have positive solutions. That you can make life better for people.

And if the Republican Party does that and couples it with Hillary Clinton's lack of trustworthiness I think she's the ideal person to go up against.

BASH: I guess what I meant -- what I mean is Republicans worry because she's strong on something.

NAVARRO: I didn't have an uh-oh moment. I had a moment that I thought I'd never had.

She actually makes me miss Obama. Because she's so scripted, so canned, so boring, it's like a snooze fest. It was like Brianna was interviewing a, you know, this person that just bobbled her -- bobbed her head up and down every time she asked the question. I thought it was a very difficult interview to conduct because she wasn't giving you anything.

[09:50:00] BASH: You know what I wish? I wish she would come here and tell us what you really thought.


BASH: Stand by, guys. Because coming up we are going to look at something that could be incredibly embarrassing if you are a 20-year- old. Your dad wearing jean shorts and singing in public. But what could be more embarrassing than that? Watching him while doing it running for president. Secrets from the trail up next.


BASH: Tomorrow Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker officially enters the 2016 race. And he is already leading the pack in the latest poll in Iowa. Aside from the public brawl with his state's labor union. He (INAUDIBLE) limited (ph) national exposure. We thought you might want to get to know him better so we headed to Wisconsin and talked to some folks who know him best.


BASH (voice-over): Scott Walker's sons are a staple of his stump speech.

GOV. SCOTT WALKER (R), WISCONSIN: My reasons are matt and alex.

Our sons, Matt and Alex.

My reasons are Matt and Alex.

BASH: So much that we were told some in Wisconsin made up a Matt and Alex drinking game.

BASH (on camera): Every time he says Matt and Alex you take a drink?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn't know that. That's pretty funny.

BASH (voice-over): Now it's the 21 and almost 20-year-old's turn to talk about their dad on the eve of his presidential announcement.

[09:55:05] ALEX WALKER, SON OF SCOTT WALKER: We've seen his leadership. We've seen that he can get things done.

BASH: What Walker did as governor in 2011 shot him to national prominence, trying to cut state spending by curbing collective bargaining and breaking state unions. It made him a hero to the right and a devil to the left.

Passions ran so high through a failed attempt to recall Walker, his then high school-aged sons say they faced death threats.

MATT WALKER, SON OF SCOTT WALKER: We got a lot of those threats. We were able to just keep calm, work through them. In the end, we got closer.

BASH: But their mother Tinette also gave her husband tough love, telling him he wasn't communicating well.

ALEX WALKER: She tried to ask her dad to explain to people more what the reforms did and what he was doing.

BASH: Walker's wife is 12 years his senior. How they met, at this bar, says a lot about his personality -- self-assured and at times a bit awkward.

ALEX WALKER: He wrote on a napkin, forgive me for being rude but I have to work early in the morning. If you'd like to go out sometime, give me a call. And he put his number down and his name. And he slipped her the napkin on the way out. BASH: The walkers are close but even they disagree on some politics. Matt and Alex support same-sex marriage and complained to their mother when their dad called last month's Supreme Court decision legalizing it a grave mistake.

BASH (on camera): She said to you wall, when you complained, go talk to your father about it. Did you?

MATT WALKER: We talked to him. He just explained his position and that was it.

ALEX WALKER: Matt and I aren't necessarily changing his stances on any issues.

BASH: Do you try?

ALEX WALKER: No. We respect his opinion on things.

BASH (voice-over): Walker's intense political ambition began as a teenager. He lost a bid to be student body president at Marquette University and dropped out before graduating.

MATT WALKER: He got an offer of a job before he even left. Why would he not take it.

BASH (on camera): What would he say if either of you said, you know what, Dad, I'm done. I'm not finishing college.

ALEX WALKER: He might be all right if we had a good reason. Our mom, on the other hand, would not allow that.

BASH (voice-over): Walker was elected to the state assembly at age 25. He has been a career politician since but not always a political star.

CHARLIE SYKES, CONSERVATIVE RADIO HOST: Scott is one of those guys who does not fill up the room. He is not going to blow you away. He comes off as very intense, very thoughtful.

BASH: Charlie Sykes is a Wisconsin conservative radio host where Walker was a regular guest as he moved up through elected office.

SYKES: He is his own No. 1 strategist; he is his own No.1 spokesman. He is his own media person.

BASH (on camera): Some would say that's micromanaging.

SYKES: Oh, I think everybody would say it's micromanaging.

BASH (voice-over): And he is even-keeled, apparently no temper. Rebecca Kleefisch is Walker's lieutenant governor.

BASH (on camera): Have you ever seen that at all?


BASH: Not even during the intense recall moments?

KLEEFISCH: I was floored by his calm. You know that he is a man of deep faith.

BASH (voice-over): Walker is a preacher's son, faith guides him spiritually and helps politically with Christian conservative voters he needs, especially in Iowa.

KLEEFISCH: We don't go into meetings and quote scripture. A lot of people assume of evangelicals, right? But you can see how he cares deeply.

BASH: Before Kleefisch ran for office she was a reporter who covered Walker.

KLEEFISCH: When we're in a public meeting versus when the door is closed, same guy. I know that's weird.

BASH: For his sons that typical guy also means dorky dad.

ALEX WALKER: A little embarrassing sometimes. He likes to sing karaoke definitely and embarrass Matt and I.

BASH: You're not the only ones.

KLEEFISCH: He has a tendency to sing. He sang "Happy".

BASH (on camera): How did that go?

KLEEFISCH: Politics is really good for him.


BASH (voice-over): But worse for his sons are his clothes.

MATT WALKER: The big one is that he wears jean shorts sometimes. That's a little rough. So fashion choices need to be updated.

BASH: Dressing like a pirate when they were kids, not so bad.

ALEX WALKER: That's how he's always been. And he's shown the example for us.


BASH: A (ph) little (ph) fun there with the Walker sons.

Dan, I want to start with you. Because for Democrats, who would be tougher to beat? Jeb Bush or Scott Walker?

PFEIFFER: Scott Walker.

BASH: Why?

PFEIFFER: Because the best case Republicans can make is change versus more of the same. If we are going to run just for a repeat of the Bush years, Democrats would love to have that.

BASH: What do you say that?

NAVARRO: I think anybody that gets nominated is going to have a good shot. I think we've just seen through this interview and through the last six months that Hillary Clinton is a formidable but vulnerable candidate.

BASH: And conservatives I'm guessing you all are --

NEEDHAM: Yes. Look, we need somebody who can fight and can win. He is somebody who is -- who has won and when you're (INAUDIBLE).

BASH: OK. Two words?

[09:59:58] KEILAR: I would say Marco Rubio. That's what I would say.

BASH: Brianna, Mike, Ana, Dan...

PFEIFFER: Thank you.

BASH: ...thank you so much for coming this morning. Thanks for spending your Sunday morning with us. Jake Tapper will be right here next week.

"FAREED ZAKARIA GPS" starts right now.