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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Donald Trump Holds Press Conference; Picture of Missing Child Released; Aired 8-9p ET
Aired July 10, 2015 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[20:00:08] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Good evening.
We begin tonight with the developing story out of Los Angeles where Donald Trump is once again focusing on illegal immigration. And a gathering group of protesters are focusing on him. His controversial comments about illegal immigrants cost him a number of business deals as you know. But as he told me this week he is rich and it doesn't really matter to him.
Today he is taking a more personal approach. Trump is in Los Angeles meeting with the family of a young man who was killed by an undocumented immigrant in 2008 and other victims' family members. He is scheduled to speak to the media about 15 minutes from now. We will bring that to you when it happens.
Our Kyung Lah joins us now live from Los Angeles with all of the latest.
So what do we know about this meeting? Trump is going to have with the parents of Jamele Shaw, who I said was killed by an undocumented immigrant?
KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, we understand that meeting is happen right now. It is expected to be an extremely emotional meeting between the father of 17-year-old Jamele Shaw and Donald Trump. This is a meeting this father very much wanted to have. His son, a 17-year-old football star was shot and killed, shot twice by an undocumented immigrant, a known gang member, who had been released from prison the day before his son was killed. He says he hasn't been able to tell his story. His wife was in Iraq fighting for the U.S. army on behalf of her country and had to fly home to bury her son. This family says this is the presidential candidate who actually makes sense to them. Here's what he said earlier to reporters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was watching when he said it. I wanted to cheer. It's like, man, the relief. I mean, for the first time I feel like I was walking around with carrying a bag of weight, you know, it was unbelievable. The feeling to see finally, finally somebody going to do something. Because if he was talking like that I know that is going to resonate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LAH: So while, you can hear all of the protests happening next to me. This is a father who says don't write Trump off quite yet, Anderson.
COOPER: And certainly the polls indicate a lot of people are not writing him off. Certainly among GOP primary potential voters.
I want to talk to you about the protest you are at right now. We are awaiting this live press conference that Trump is going to have with the family, at the podium where it is going to happen. We understand it is going to happen any moment. We will obviously bring that to you live.
In terms of the protest, what size is it? Who are the protesters? And what is their message?
LAH: You can see kind of for yourself, this is one corner of the protest. It is really hard to show exactly how large it is because the sidewalk stretches all the way around the block. From I can see just from where I am standing it looks like it has suddenly grown in the last, five to ten minutes. It is now at least several dozen people. And they said that they had a hard time parking. This was supposed to start 30 minutes ago. But you can hear the passion in their voices. People are driving by honking their horns. And they all have the same message that they're offended by Donald Trump and they're using the #dumpTrump hoping that people on social media will also take their side.
COOPER: So relatively small numbers of protesters. In terms of the location this is at a different location than where the Trump press conference is going to take place, correct? Why are they protesting at the location they're at?
LAH: They're protesting here because this is the hotel in Brentwood where this evening Trump is scheduled to speak. He is scheduled to speak in front of a group called friend of aid. It is the one and only, according to their own definition for conservatives and the entertainment industry. It is a private event. It is not open to the press. But Donald Trump will be driving by all these people, you are seeing, as he arrives for that event this evening.
COOPER: All right. Kyung Lah, appreciate that. We'll obviously bring you that press conference, as I said, when it happen. Again, we are anticipating that really any moment from now. We do want to bring you tonight's other big story. A picture that has been shared millions of times on line, a picture of heartbreaking tragedy, a computer generated image of a little girl. You are seeing her right there.
She was found on the shore of Boston harbor stuffed into a garbage bag. Now authorities do not know who she is. How she died, she was thrown away like trash. They only know that her body was found two weeks ago on a narrow peninsula along the shore of Deer Island.
Randi Kaye tonight reports.
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Boston harbor's rocky shoreline where this little girl's bed was first spotted. A woman walking her dog noticed a plastic bundle and called police.
Investigators found the child's body here, wrapped in a black plastic garbage bag, just discarded like a piece of trash resting along the rocks here. This is Deer Island. This is just east of Boston's Logan airport. You get here by car or by boat.
Authorities don't have a clue who the child is. So they're calling her simply baby Doe. They also don't know who put her here or when. But they suspect she hadn't been dead very long. A make shift memorial, with teddy bears, now sits by the shore.
How disturbed are you by this discovery here?
[20:05:25] ANTHONY PLANT, WINTHROP RESIDENT: Absolutely disturbed. You know it's just a little kid. Never had a chance in this world. You know? It's terrible.
KAYE: The national center for missing and exploited children generated this computer image of what she may look like. Long, brown hair, sweet chubby cheeks, and big brown eyes. Heartbreaking and haunting.
Whoever left her here may have done so after dark to avoid being seen. Deer Island is a busy place. It's a popular spot for biking, for jogging, even for fishing. And there is also this big water treatment facility right here with a lot of people going in and out.
DOROTHY DIXON, WINTHROP RESIDENT: I grew up here -- even if it is a kidnapped kid, you know what I mean.
KAYE: Baby Doe is just three-and-a-half feet tall weighing about 30 pounds. Investigators believe she is 4 years old, likely Hispanic or Caucasian. In this computer image she is wearing small gold earrings. So someone took the time to get her ears pierced. Authorities don't have much to go on. But they did release pictures of some of the evidence. A zebra blanket found with her and polka dot leggings she was wearing. They hope it will jog someone's memory.
This photo along the path near the shore may help someone remember too.
ANGELO UMBRIANNA, WINTHROP RESIDENT: The sad part of this is that somebody has how to know this child. Nobody has come forward. You know, that's the sad part about it.
KAYE: Authorities were looking to see if baby Doe might be one of a handful of high-profile girls who were missing elsewhere. But so far, those from West Virginia, Florida, Maine, and Mexico, have all been ruled out.
On the state police Facebook page the little girl's image has been viewed more than 51 million times. But still her name remains a mystery along with how she died. No visible signs of trauma on her body.
(END VIDEOTAPE) COOPER: And Randi joins us now from Deer Island. Do investigators -- do they know how long it is going to take to figure out what she died from?
KAYE: They expect it would take at last a week, Anderson. Toxicology tests are under way right now. They are trying to figure out if maybe this little girl was poisoned or maybe she ingested drugs somehow that she shouldn't have.
But Anderson, adding to the mystery is that investigators believe that at least for a while she was well taken care of. She was clothed. She wasn't excessively underweight or overweight. So somebody seemed to be paying attention to that. And as I mentioned, her ears were pierced. So somebody took the care to do something nice for her and take her to have that done.
So that really is baffling to investigators how she went from that sort of life to ending up on the shores here of Deer Island right behind me and the mystery continues.
COOPER: Just awful. Randi, appreciate it.
Joining me law now law is CNN enforcement analyst and retired NYPD detective Harry Houck, also Ed Smart, his daughter, Elizabeth, of course was rescued nine months after being kidnapped from their home, and former FBI profiler Mary Ellen O'Toole.
Ed, I mean, it is so shocking to me that no one has come forward to say who this little girl is, not just family members but neighbors. Obviously, there are a number of people out there who must know her or have seen her?
ED SMART, FATHER OF RESCUED ABDUCTEE ELIZABETH SMART: No, I'm sure that's true. I can't imagine in a sweet little girl like this without somebody knowing something. But I believe with the amount of attention that it is getting that, you know in the near future we will have an answer to this. You know, certainly the potential that you know something happened to her whether it was accidental or otherwise and then, you know, trying to cover up and not have to, you know, say this happened. And admitting to what happened is I think a reason why, you know, people are maybe having a hard time coming forward. You know, with the finger pointing at them or why did this happen? Why did somebody do this? Of course, it's so hard to think that anyone would put a child in a trash bag and put them out to sea. It's -- it's outrageous.
But I am sure that somebody out there knows, knows the answer to this. And with the amount of media that it is getting, and hopefully if we keep it in social media, you know, somebody will come forth and acknowledge that they know something of her.
Mary, how likely is it - I mean, logic seems to dictate this. It must be a member of this little girl's family who is some way responsible for this because otherwise parents, care givers, would have come forward already and at least said this child is missing?
[20:10:09] MARY ELLEN O'TOOLE, FORMER FBI PROFILER: Right. In my experience in the FBI, when we had cases of missing children, parents will walk over hot coals, they'll do anything to report their child missing and to work with law enforcement. So when you see the direct opposite here, no police report so far that have been identified have, have been uncovered. And she still remains a mystery. That suggests a couple of things. It suggests someone much closer to the child which would be the care givers or the parents. It really does at least initially eliminate a stranger again because parents would come forward.
And you also have a dichotomy, the behavior suggests the little girl was well cared for, at least, from what we know thus far. And then you have this callus behavior where the little girl is left in a garbage bag along the shore. So one behavior suggests one person involved. The second behavior suggests another person involved. And frequently when these cases are resolved, you see a mother who has dominated by a male figure in the family. It's the male figure who dumps the child.
So I'm not suggesting that is going to be the resolution here. I'm just looking at the behavior. And that is what you are seeing. This two separate behaviors here. But again that closeness surrounding this little girl does suggest it wasn't a stranger. Mom and dad would go through hell's fire to report their child missing and this hasn't happened.
COOPER: Harry, without knowing who this little girl is or where she is from, what is the police investigation look like at this point? I mean, if there is no real lead of any kind what do authorities do?
HARRY HOUCK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well there are things they are doing, Anderson. Now, besides following all of the tips that they're getting, you got to know that this child might have been abducted several years ago, alright. And no matter the surroundings of the child's death. If it occurred then the people that have abducted her could not go to the police. So they had to dump the body because if they didn't they would be exposed as the kidnappers. So that is definitely the possibility there.
So what the police are probably doing, you know, starting around the Boston area look for all children that were abducted or missing for the last five years because she could be up to five years old, right?
And then work their way out from that. We're hoping from the autopsy report that we are going to be able to find something like a pre- existing condition, a birth defect or something that will be able to narrow the search done to be able to find out who she is.
COOPER: How critical, Harry, is it to figure out if this little girl's body was left there or washed ashore?
HOUCK: Well, it's critical because it will depend on the search that the police department does. I'm starting to think that the child probably came in with the tide. Because, it doesn't make any sense to me to walk through a park and drop a child where the child could be found unless they thought the tide would take the child away. There is a lot of people in that park. So I think that the child was probably dumped in the water somewhere. We will be able to find out through the autopsy report whether there was water in the lungs or not. And if there is water in the lungs then we will know when the baby was in the water if the baby was still alive, alright.
And the fact that they're able to tell whether she was a white, black, Hispanic, and they belief that she is either a white or Hispanic. So there mustn't have been too much decomposition going on in the body. That's why they think also the baby was killed just prior to sometime when the body was found.
COOPER: Ed, I mean, it is obviously hard to overstate just how important the public's help is in a case like this. Even if somebody doesn't know directly who she was or who her family was, if they think they recognize something, even an article of clothing or that blanket, authorities need to hear from that person?
SMART: Absolutely. And I think that is truly one of the keys. That is the potential in finding her. Hopefully -- you know, DNA has been taken from her body and matched into the database to see if there is any kind of a match. I would be curious to find out if that happened yet. But I think that, absolutely, that is probably our biggest hope.
The more an association can be made from, you know, remembering those clothes with the little girl. You know, that the blanket, you know, certainly those things. The fact that the blanket is there with her would make you think that you, know she was, you know, being cared for or was being, you know, held. So kind of a mystery.
HOUCK: I'm sorry, Mr. Smart. There is one very important factor here. That computer generated photograph of her does not look 100 percent like her, alright. It's similar. So if people were looking at that photo and saying, the girl I am thinking of doesn't look like her. We want-up to call the police any way because it is just a similarity of what she might look like.
[20:15:04] COOPER: Right. A good point.
Harry, appreciate it. Ed smart, great to have you on. Mary Ellen O'Toole. Let's hope all this attention help.
Also a reminder, we are awaiting a press conference from Donald Trump in Los Angeles. Controversial, it is no doubt. He is meeting with a family members of a young man who was killed by an undocumented immigrant. Supporters of Trump say this exactly proves his point about illegal immigration. Those who oppose Donald Trump will say this is essentially using an individual to try to prove a political point. We are going to bring you that press conference.
More also about how this image of this little girl came to be. Harry talked about some of the technology behind it. The computer rendering and how it can save lives. How accurate really is it? We'll talk to Michael Murphy from the center for missing and exploited children. Also, imagine being diagnosed with a rare and terminal form of blood
cancer, imagine fighting disease for years with painful and debilitating chemo treatments and then finding out that your doctor lied, lied about the whole thing, you in fact were never sick, never even had cancer. This guy, Dr. Fareed Fatah did just that to his patients and made millions doing it. The story when "360" continues.
[20:19:01] COOPER: A computer generated image of the little girl whose remains were found stuffed in a trash bag along the shoreline of Boston harbor has certainly struck a chord with millions of people. The picture may not be entirely accurate but it is all authorities have to go on right now and these types of images helped solve other cases.
Jean Casarez reports.
JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It is the face that has won over the country. A computer generated image of a little girl, baby Doe. At this point, her real name is unknown. A forensic artist Christie Andrews used pictures from the morgue to construct this image with hope that someone will be able to identify her.
CHRISTIE ANDREW, FORENSIC ARTIST (via phone): You know, when we are creating these images, we are studying the face, you know, very intensely. And so, we are doing our best as forensic artists to create a composite that we feel looks like of that person.
CASAREZ: And There have been 50 million page views of baby Doe's picture.
JOHN WALSH, CNN HOST, THE HUNT: And the center did the composite. It is very realistic.
CASAREZ: According to John Walsh of "the HUNT," forensic imaging and age progression are often fairly accurate and can help find the missing or unidentified children.
[20:20:07] WALSH: I see a child that's been recovered after 15 years, if 10 years and go. It is amazing how close the computer generated image is to what the child looks look now.
CASAREZ: Age progression composites have been instrumental in investigations across the country. Sarah Brinn was abducted by her father when she was 3 years old. Three years later in 2002 she was reunited with her mother.
Jonathan Ortiz was kidnapped by his mother in 1992 after she poisoned his father with an insecticide laced milk shake. His forensic composite helped crack the case to find him.
According to Walsh's nonprofit organization, the national center of missing and exploited children, since the beginning of their forensic imaging unit in 1990 there have been over 6,000 age progressions done for missing children. And 1,300 have been found or identified from those forensic images.
Precious Doe was found murdered in 2001, a computer generated image was created to help identify the little girl.
Precious Doe was identified as Ericka Michelle Maria Green. Note the similarities. Jaycee Duggard kidnapped in Lake Tahoe in 1991, missing more than 18 years until she was found alive this computer generated image of her during the teen years was based on Duggard when kidnapped at 11-year-old. The picture on the far right of your screen is the real Duggard in 2009.
And although baby Doe won't have a chance at life her identity could provide a dignity for her legacy.
Walsh: Somebody knows who she is. All they got do is the right thing. Make that call.
CASAREZ: Jean Casarez, CNN, New York.
COOPER: And joining me is coroner/medical examiner Michael Murphy who works with the center for missing and exploited children.
Mike, can you just explain the process of creating these kind of images? What do the artists actually start from?
MIKE MURPHY, CENTER FOR MISSING AND EXPLOITED CHILDREN: Well the artist starts from a lot of different beginnings. In this particular instance, law enforcement was able to provide us with some pictures. And then the artist matches science and their artistic talent to ultimately create the image we are talking about today.
COOPER: So it is a picture of, I mean, I don't want to get too graphic of the remains. And then the artist kind of builds on to that?
MURPHY: That's correct. And sometimes they're dealing with remains that are fully intact and in some instances they're dealing with originally with just a skull or bones. And so it depend on the particular case. But the artist will take the science that they know and then they will apply their artistic talent.
COOPER: What are the limitations to this technology? Because I understand race is something that, that can't necessarily be determined.
MURPHY: Well, when we say race can't be determined, we are always very careful when we try to assign a race. And that's because as we become more and more blended as a society, we don't want to put a particular case into a specific notch or, into a cubby hole so to speak where people are thinking of it one dimensionally. We want them to look at the picture, and then apply some of what they know, so that when they are looking at the re-creation, they're looking at it with the idea is this the little girl that maybe is next door that I haven't seen for several days. Is this someone I have seen before?
COOPER: Right now. Want to show you Donald Trump's press conference after meeting with the family of Jamele Shaw.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: -- to the loss of their children, incredible children. In some cases they were grown but to the families they will always be their children. We were discussing that. And there was no reason for it.
People came into the country illegally and killed their children. And it is a very, very sad thing what is happening with our country. With respect to whether you want to say illegal aliens, illegal immigrants, illegals, and nobody wants to talk about it.
We just spent a lot of time discussing what happened. And the folks were telling me something that was incredible. Whenever somebody hears that it was an illegal that was involved with the death of their children it becomes politically incorrect for a politician to help them. That's how messed up our nation is.
And what happened the other day with Kate was incredible. And very interestingly I started about a month before talking about the borders. But everybody in the press knows I have been talking about this for years. And right after I guess I caused controversy and for no reason, because I was talking about Mexico is sending people that Mexico doesn't want, and everybody knows that's what I was saying. And everybody knows that I have great relationships with Mexican people. I have many, many people who work for me who are Mexican. They're phenomenal people. I love them. They're enormously talented tremendous spirit. I have great respect for the country of Mexico.
The problem is the country of Mexico has leaders that are far smarter than our leaders. Far more cunning than our leaders. Their negotiators are much better than our negotiators. And they're sending people into our country that we don't want but we take and that they don't want. And you know who they're sending.
Now the problem is you will cut the statement in half, you'll cut it down so, you'll leave out, what I said, which you always do. Because the press in many cases is very, very dishonest. I have actually learned it by speaking with the folks alongside of me. So you have the illegals come in and the illegals kill their children. And we better get smart in the United States.
So we are housing people from all over the world that other countries don't want. They're sending criminals to us and we're putting those criminals in jail. Oftentimes after they have killed somebody or hurt somebody. And whether it's Mexico or other countries, they look at it very differently. And very intelligently. Why should we pay for somebody in jail for 25, 30, 40 years, when the United States with very, very stupid leaders and representatives will take care of the situation.
And I heard they were going to be big protests outside. You heard that. There is hardly anybody. And I can tell you, if you look at who those people are and where they came from, they were very well spoken. Check out the Mexican government. Because I have been talking about the horrible trade deals that the United States is making with Mexico. And again I respect Mexico for it. But I don't respect our leaders. And those trade deals are taking our jobs, they're taking everything. Ford is building a $2.5 billion plant in Mexico. They're going to make cars and trucks and parts and send them into the United States. We get no jobs. We get no taxes. No tax comes right across the border.
And I'm telling you that Mexico is more concerned about my talk on trade than my talk on illegal aliens or immigrants. Believe me now Mexico is having a hard time making deals because they're saying, oh, Trump has brought this to light. So I have brought the immigration problem to light. Especially concerning the illegal aliens and the illegal immigrants, but I have also brought trade to light. Because we are losing billions and billions and hundreds of billions of dollars with China and japan and Mexico and every single country that we deal with. We don't make good deals anymore in the United States. So I am going to ask a few of the folks to just say a couple of word. This great gentleman, I saw him on television the other day. I had, I had never saw him before. And he was talking about me. I said what is he talking about me? I said what did I do now? I thought you were going to be critical of me. Everybody is critical of me. He said Donald Trump is the only one that speaks up about the illegal immigrant problem. The only one. And I said what is he talking about? So, what I And then he told the story of how his son who is this incredible young guy, who was going to get a scholarship to college, and a great potential quarterback, (INAUDIBLE) who was shot from nowhere by an illegal who shouldn't have been in the country. And nobody wants to talk about it. So what I do is maybe we can start right here. I would just go down the line very quickly. And we will talk about it and get it out of your system. Because the system is really screwed up. OK. Go ahead.
Yeah, come to the mike, it is easier. Perfect.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah, my name is Don Rosenberg, D, O, N. R, O, S, E, N, B, E, R, G. My son Drew was 25 years old at the time. He was a law student in San Francisco. He was coming home from school one night when Roberto Gallo, an illegal alien from Honduras, tried to make a last-second left hand turn and the two collided. They were going very slowly, had Gallo stopped I wouldn't be here today. Because my son would have just been bruised. Instead he accelerated driving over my son's body. My son's helmet had come off, wedged under his tire, so he couldn't go forward. He backed up driving over his body a second time. And then went forward a third time trying to flee and the man very brave man had stepped in front of the car, and he stopped and his tire was on my son's abdomen. And five men had to lift it off. We were told he was in the country legally which was not really true. So, I got involved in this strictly as an advocacy to get unlicensed drivers off the road. The more research I did the more I found out what a problem it was with people in the country illegally. And as I started to testify, Sacramento, Los Angeles, police commission, all I was hearing was "Well, you know, these people work. They contribute. They have to take their kids to school" like that was a reason that it was OK that they killed people. And every year just driving they kill about 3,000 people. Which, of course, never makes it in the press anywhere. Most newspapers now don't even give the license or immigration status when they kill somebody.
So that's what, it was actually people here illegally that sucked me into the battle. Because I had to start researching and find out that first of all what they're saying. It is irrelevant. But is it true? So, not only is it relevant, but it is not true. And it's completely hidden. And for all of you who live in L.A., you have got a one in five chance if you get hit by a car that that that driver is here illegally. And in certain areas, obviously, it is even higher. So, this is a huge problem all over. And as Mr. Trump said nobody wants to hear from us.
COOPER: This press conference continues. I want to bring in our panelists, senior political commentator Michael Smerconish, host of Smerconish, which airs Saturdays, joins CNN. Also, former Reagan White House political director, Jeffrey Lord, who is a contributing editor of "American Spectator" and investigative reporter, John Carlos Frey. Michael, as much as Trump's comments on illegal immigration have angered some people, there is certainly a point to be made with these families whose loved ones were killed at the hands of undocumented immigrants that the immigration system in some shape or form certainly didn't serve these families.
MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN HOST "SMERCONISH": No doubt that is true. And the murder a week ago of Kate Steinle, the 32-year old woman by a guy who I think the number is, five times was able to break into the United States, is testament to that fact. Of course, the political question is one of tonality, and whether Donald Trump is the right spokesperson for those view points and whether this represents a growth strategy for the Republican Party, I maintain that it does not. This is a very compelling presentation, however, because I think these individuals have a great deal of credibility.
COOPER: Jeffrey, Donald Trump says he thinks he would get the Latino vote. Certainly, a lot of Latinos haven't taken kindly to what he has been saying. There is that, you know, not huge, but protest at another hotel where Donald Trump is going to be appearing later tonight. In order to take the White House they're obviously going to need the Latino vote. How do comments like the one he has been making not make it more difficult for Republicans come next November? Do you believe they make it more difficult?
JEFFREY LORD, FORMER REAGAN WHITE HOUSE POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well I think in the beginning as people get to know Donald Trump in a political sense, it causes, maybe causes a small problem. But I honestly believe that, he'll campaign on jobs, there are a whole other set of issues, aside from this, that I think will appeal to Latinos. And he will be very direct and go to it. And you know, I want to say, Anderson, one thing that struck me, when listening to him. We all remember the turmoil surrounding the death of Michael Brown, and Trayvon Martin, and Eric Gardner, all of whom are African-Americans. And one of the gentlemen although I can't see it, one of the gentlemen on that stage, I believe, is Jamiel Shaw, whose son Jamiel, 17 years old, out of high school was killed, also an African-American.
[20:35:10] LORD: And we are only hearing about this now. In other words, what I am saying is, all kinds of people were out there marching for these other folks, all kinds of turmoil went on. Who was marching for Jamiel Shaw? And apparently, at this point it's only Donald Trump. And I think that says a lot, because the killer here was, is already in prison is an illegal immigrant. And so, nobody wanted to touch it. And I think right there is the problem.
COOPER: John, you say that what Trump has been doing is opportunistic and that he's purposely used a marginalized group to create political advantage. Explain that?
JOHN CARLOS FREY, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Well, if you take a look at statistics and you take a look at reality. First of all, I think we can separate an undocumented immigrant from a criminal. Just because they're undocumented doesn't necessarily mean that they're going to live a life of crime. He is cherry picking certain instances albeit tragic and I feel for the family, but it's, it's pretty salacious to say, basically, that undocumented immigrants are all criminals and they're all going to commit heinous murder. So ...
COOPER: In fact ...
COOPER: In fact, and I pointed this out to Trump in the interview that I do with him this week, there are a number of reputable studies, which show there is not a correlation between, you know, illegal immigration and a huge uptick in violent crimes. In fact, that there is no correlation.
FREY: Anderson, not only is there not a correlation, the U.S. border patrol will say that 99 percent of all undocumented immigrants that cross the U.S./Mexico border come for a job. They're not rapists, they are not here to commit murder. And as you say, the statistics bear out that there are probably some of the safest drivers, they probably try to keep their nose as clean as possible. Because they don't want to be deported. So, it's just sort of blanket statement that people from Mexico are criminals, to begin with, just because they cross the border. We really have to take a look at what it is to be undocumented. I'm sorry?
LORD: He didn't say that all Mexicans are criminals. He is talking about illegal immigrants. That's what he is talking about. And that clearly is the problem.
FREY: Take a look at what the crime of crossing the U.S./Mexico border actually is. It's a violation of immigration law. It is not something that even warrants an arrest. It's not even something that warrants a jail sentence. It's akin to a misdemeanor. So, I mean, to sort of blanket statement that these are heinous criminals is way, is a stretch. And to start a stand on the shoulders. Also people who come are poor people. You know, for a rich man to stand on the shoulders of poor people to be grand standing is tantamount to cowardice.
COOPER: I want to be able to ...
LORD: We are getting a lot of support from people who are not rich. And I am holding here three pages from the U.S. Border patrol of incident after incident after incident of crimes committed by illegal immigrants. That's the problem.
COOPER: But wait, is it really, hold on. Guys. Right. One at a time. Is it really fair to point out to individual crimes when study after study has said that if you look overall, you know, illegal immigration was going through the roof you know, and that's not currently, it's actually down about a million based on -- on the latest figures in the Pew research center. There was - crime was actually going down. So you can't actually all throughout the '90s and 2000s, crime was actually going down while illegal immigration was going up. So while you can pick out a number of horrible, horrible cases, is it really fair to say, to paint with a broad brush that illegal immigrants are, are, you know bringing this crime wave to the United States?
FREY: It absolutely does not bear out. These facts do not bear out. I have been reporting on the border for the last 15 years. And the facts do not bear out. But it doesn't seem like the facts are important here. It seems like this is why I said, that this is just a political opportunity here. He knows that people run scared. He knows that people don't like the fact that people are coming across the border. And I understand that. But to actually make -- to create a political platform on it, is baseless and it's foundationless.
COOPER: Right. I hear what you are saying.
Michael, this rally that Trump is going to attend tomorrow in Phoenix, he is going to be joined by the Maricopa County Sheriff, Joe Arpaio who certainly, you know, a controversial figure in his own right. He has, you know, one reelection after reelection there. And we are told it had to be moved to a larger venue. Because so many people wanted to attend.
COOPER: He has certainly taken an issue, which was not in the forefront of this presidential race at this stage though it has been in the past, and brought it to the forefront.
SMERCONISH: There is no doubt. He has struck a chord with a core constituency of the Republican Party. But the problem, Anderson, is that demographics are not on the side of the GOP. Literally, just today in California we passed a milestone where Latinos now outnumber whites, this had been predicted by the demographers back in 2014. It is now a reality. And, you know, for Donald Trump's vast level of sophistication you would think that he would have crunched some numbers. Taking a look at the electoral model. Because if he had he would realize that he needs in 2016 to exceed the nonwhite vote that was garnered by Mitt Romney running against an African-American. He needs to exceed the nonwhite vote that was garnered by John McCain running against Barack Obama in 2008. This is not the way that you do it, and the long term harm for the GOP is that this is going to tarnish the brand in a way that lingers long beyond the Trump candidacy.
So I think that's why there is such consternation within the Republican Party. That base is not enough to get them home. It might be enough to get someone nominated, but not to win a general election. And how this plays with Independents who are 43 percent of the country right now according to Gallup, that's the real question.
COOPER: Jeffrey Lord, I just want to give you the final word.
LORD: Two quick word. Sure. Two quick words. I think we need better statistics from the U.S. government itself. As I understand it, the GAO, the GAO counts all immigrants in federal prison legal and illegal, but it only counts illegal immigrants when you come to state prison and local prison. So, in other words, the stats themselves that are provided to all these groups doing the research are not very good.
And secondly, I would say that, what Donald Trump does is -- will appeal directly to Latinos. In other words, he treats them as equals, as American citizens. He doesn't condescend to them, he doesn't patronize them. And I would suggest the reason Mitt Romney and John McCain lose is because that was in fact, their approach. And that is the sort of moderate Republican stance. And it always loses presidential elections.
COOPER: Jeffrey Lord, I appreciate you being on, John Carlos Frey, it's good to have your voice as well. Michael Smerconish, I appreciate it. Be sure to tune in for Smerconish Saturdays, 9 a.m., 6 p.m. Eastern here on CNN.
Coming up, a lot more ahead this hour. The Confederate flag removed today from the capitol grounds in South Carolina. I had my conversation with Jenny , a direct descendant of the first Confederate president who practically begged her fellow lawmakers in emotional speech to take action.
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: I cannot believe that we do not have the heart in this body to do something meaningful such as take a symbol of hate off of these grounds.
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COOPER: An extraordinary day in South Carolina. Take a look.
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COOPER: Just past 10:00 a.m. the Confederate battle flag taken down for good outside the state house. Hundreds of people watched. Governor Nikki Haley called on law makers to take down the flag days after the massacre at the Emanuel AME Church. The bill sailed through the Senate, but got bogged down in debate in the House. Then Republican Representative Jenny Horne, a descendant of the president of the confederacy Jefferson Davis took the floor and blew everyone away.
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JENNY HORNE, (R) S.C. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES: I am a lifelong South Carolinian, I am a descendant of Jefferson Davis, okay. But that does not matter. It's not about Jenny Horne. I cannot believe that we do not have the heart in this body to do something meaningful such as take a symbol of hate off these grounds on Friday! And if any of you vote to amend you are ensuring that this flag will fly beyond Friday. And for the widow of Senator Pinckney and his two young daughters that would be adding insult to injury! And I will not be a part of it.
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COOPER: Well, a lot of her colleagues are crediting that speech with swinging the debate in favor of removing the flag on Friday today. She joins me now.
Representative Horne, you put so much of yourself into making sure this flag came down. I wonder how does it feel now that it has been removed.
HORNE: It feels triumphant, Anderson. That's all I can tell you. I am -- I was so elated today. I cried tears of joy. For those of us who have always thought that the battle flag did not belong on the grounds, we are just rejoicing today in South Carolina.
COOPER: As you know, a big part of this whole debate has been people talking about their relatives who fought for the confederacy, who died fighting for the confederacy, saying the flag flying at the state house was a memorial to them. I have relatives who fought for the confederacy, also for the union. You have obviously a connection to the confederacy, related to Confederate President Jefferson Davis, and you say that heritage, that actually had nothing to do with the whole discussion, how so?
HORNE: You know, our heritage is our ancestry. Our legacy is what we do while we are here. And because our ancestry is to be honored and revered, I think that in this situation, this flag was a symbol of terrorism for African-Americans all over the South. And I would liken it to a symbol such as a swastika and how offensive that would be for Jewish people.
COOPER: The speech that you gave on the House floor, I mean it clearly altered the course of the whole debate. And I wondered what prompted you to get up there and say the words that you did. I mean had you planned it beforehand? Did you know what you were going to say? Obviously, the emotion was so in the moment. HORNE: Anderson, I had not planned to go to the well as we call it.
We had been there all day. And quite frankly, all of us were exhausted. At one point, someone said, andI don't know who it was, but someone made a glib comment or something that made me just angry. I was so angry that they were making light of such a serious issue. And no one to that point had said anything about the nine lives lost in Charleston South Carolina. And being the member of the Charleston delegation I had to get up and I had to try to refocus the debate where it needed to be. And I tell you, I have to say it, I can't -- this impact on South Carolina is -- is -- will go on for generations. We have now dropped the NCAA boycott, I am so proud of South Carolina. I am a lifelong South Carolinian, and I cannot tell you just the absolute pride that I have in my state.
COOPER: I can understand that. Representative Horne, I appreciate your time tonight. Thank you.
HORNE: Thank you, Anderson.
COOPER: Truly historic day in South Carolina. Imagine being told, though, that you have terminal cancer only to find out later after years of chemotherapy that the doctor, your doctor lied to you, that you weren't sick at all. What happened to dozens of people who finally got their day in court face to face with this man, the doctor who tormented them? That story is next.
COOPER: Welcome back. In a Michigan courtroom today, a judge sentenced a cancer doctor Farid Fata to 45 years in federal prison. Now, a punishment many of his victims don't consider harsh enough.
COOPER: You are going to find out why. What he did is really beyond imagination. He deliberately poisoned his patients with treatments they did not need just to line his pockets with millions of dollars. Today dozens of his patients got to face him in court. Jason Carroll reports.
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JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: For a time Dr. Farid Fata enjoyed the type of popularity to match his million dollar lifestyle. He lived in this tony mansion and ran several upscale clinics in eastern Michigan. When Patricia Hester started feeling ill in 2010 she says she knew exactly where to go.
PATTY HESTER, FORMER PATIENT OF DR. FATA: He is world renowned. And when you went in his office he was top doc.
CARROLL: That first visit is a day she will never forget.
HESTER: And he went over the results that he said he had. And that I had MDS, a mild dysplastic syndrome, a terminal cancer of the blood. And that ... CAROL (on camera): Terminal. He did say?
HESTER: That is a terminal disease.
CAROL (voice over): Hester's story is similar to dozens of other patients who prosecutors say Fata told they too had cancer and needed immediate treatment. People like Robert Soberet who Fata falsely diagnosed with a rare form of blood cancer in 2010.
ROBERT SOBERET, FORMER PATIENT OF DR. FATA: Your mouth drops. Your heart sinks.
CARROLL: Imagine one moment not knowing how long you will live then after years of chemotherapy or other toxic treatments finding out your doctor lied. You never had cancer at all.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What I want to do to him right now, I couldn't repeat what I want to do. Just unbelievable.
(on camera): So, you were under treatment for three years.
HESTER: Three years.
CARROLL: Under Dr. Fata.
CARROLL: And then three years later you find out.
HESTER: It's a lie. It's all a lie.
CAROL (voice over): Relieved at learning they did not have cancer turned to rage for hundreds of former patients of Dr. Fata like Hester and Soberet, just two of more than 500 victims. Prosecutors say Fata falsely diagnosed his victims with cancer or misdiagnosed them, many given unnecessary chemotherapy or other toxic treatments all prosecutors say in the name of greed. Fata pleaded guilty to 13 counts of health care fraud, two counts of money laundering, and what federal prosecutors call one of the worst cases of medical malpractice in U.S. history. They say Fata defrauded insurance companies out of millions of dollars, by falsely diagnosing or grossly overtreating his patients.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He tortured them till they took their last breath.
CARROLL: Soberet, Hester and dozens of his other former patients or relatives of those patients face Fata in federal court for his sentencing.
They came here to court to read victim impact statements. It was one emotional story after another. Maggie Dorsey told the court that after chemotherapy treatments she did not need she is now a shadow of her former self. And Marietta Crabtree read a statement from her husband who died in 2014. His statement read "I believe Dr. Fata knowingly and purposely treated me for the wrong cancer. I am in hospice. It is my dying wish that Dr. Fata be imprisoned for the rest of his life." For his part, Fata did not acknowledge the patients who gathered at the court. Many like Hester and Soberet are dealing with a number of ailments as a result of his malpractice. Soberet wanted to face the man who left him with no teeth and questionable future after the chemotherapy and radiation he did not need. But facing him in court did not bring him peace.
SOBERET: I shouldn't have looked at him. That got me - He just gets me so upset. Now just seeing him today just made me sick.
CARROLL: And Anderson, Fata did get his chance to address the court. He cried. He begged for mercy. Telling the court that he was ashamed for what he did. He apologized to his patients telling them that he had failed them. Many of those patients, as you know, wanted that maximum 175 year sentence. They got the 45 years, which is essentially a life sentence. But many for symbolic reasons wanted the 175. Anderson.
COOPER: Just - It's absolutely sickening what this man did. Jason Carroll, I appreciate it. Thank you.
Today, I interviewed an amazing young man. A 16, 16-year-old young man named Hunter Treschl who was attacked by a shark off North Carolina's coast last month. He lost his left arm below the shoulder. But Hunter is a fighter and an optimist. We are going to air my full interview on Monday. Here is a preview.
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HUNTER TRESCHL, SURVIVED SHARK ATTACK: That's all I remember seeing of the shark. That's just like the top of his head basically.
COOPER: How big was it?
TRESCHL: I don't know for sure. I mean it was pretty decent size. My cousin was close to me. He says it was, looked like maybe, 6, 7 feet, maybe eight. Yeah. Pretty hefty.
COOPER: And was it hanging on, was it holding on to you?
TRESCHL: For a little while it was. And then it kind of slid off and took my arm with it.
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COOPER: He's just an incredibly well. We'll have more of that. But full interview with Hunter on Monday. That does it for us. The CNN original series, "The '70s" starts now.