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NBC Dumps Donald Trump; Greek Financial Crisis; Manhunt Ends. Aired 3-3:30p ET
Aired June 29, 2015 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:12] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Joining me now, CNN's Sara Ganim there outside that -- that hospital.
And so we know Sweat is also apparently revealing what happened to Richard Matt in the days before Matt was killed.
SARA GANIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Brooke.
But let's start with David Sweat. He's recovering in this hospital behind me. His condition was upgraded a few hours ago from critical to serious. And he has begun to talk to investigators, which, of course, is key for them. That is absolutely critical.
They're very pleased that he was captured alive, because they want to know, how did these two men, first of all, pull off this brazen escape? Was there anyone else helping them? And then, number two, how did they survive? How did they make it three-plus weeks on the run?
And we're learning some details from David Sweat as he begins to recover. He talked about how their plan was originally to run off with prison seamstress Joyce Mitchell, who is already in jail, been arrested and charged with helping these two men escape. But her -- the plan with her was to drive to Mexico to escape there. And she didn't show up that night.
She got cold feet, especially her lawyer says, after the two men revealed to her that they were going to kill her husband before they ran off with her. And so these two men were forced to come up with a plan B, and that plan B was to walk north to Canada. Now, we know from David Sweat that about five days ago he decided that his partner, Richard Matt, was holding him back.
We know from a law enforcement source that Richard Matt had fallen ill, possibly from eating or drinking something that was bad, and Sweat left him. He was eventually found 16 miles north, just about two miles north of the border with Canada. And, as these details come out, Brooke, we know that investigators are going to continue. They want this investigation to reveal exactly how all of this went down, so they can prevent it from happening again -- Brooke.
BALDWIN: The pieces will come together. Sara Ganim, thank you.
You know, David Sweat's time on the run ended in a field just shy of that Canadian border, two miles away. Here is a look at the twists and the turns in this incredible story that started with the guards finding makeshift dummies in the beds of those two inmates 23 days ago.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is a manhunt under way for two convicted murderers who have escaped from prison.
CUOMO: These are dangerous people, and they're nothing to be trifled with and we want the help of the public.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She's been charged with promoting prison contraband,first-degree. This is one large piece of the puzzle in our quest to find these two escaped murderers.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The cabin where the killers' DNA was found is right up this trail into the woods. The state police officers behind me are well-armed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She said, their plan was they want to kill you. I said, what? They wanted her to come pick them up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can tell you they verbally challenged him, told him to put up his hands. And at that time, you know, he -- he was shot when he didn't comply.
BALDWIN: I want to bring in Craig Caine, retired U.S. Marshal, who has some thoughts on all of this.
Good to see you, sir.
CRAIG CAINE, RETIRED U.S. MARSHAL: Hi, Brooke.
BALDWIN: Let's just begin with the fact that we now know -- there was a lot of talk, did they together, would have they separated? So, we know, according to Sweat, who is now talking, that Sweat ditched Matt about five days ago because Matt was sick, he was slowing him down. Do you think that the -- their separation was the beginning of the end for him?
CAINE: Yes, I believe so.
CAINE: Because these two gentlemen, when they escaped, they had some kind of plan going. The plan fell apart. So, both of them were feeding off each other. I believe that, you know, the limited knowledge they had about survival and in the woods, separately, it could have been more of a problem for them.
But, together, I think that they were able to stay elusive and alive a lot longer.
CAINE: Together, because they -- you know, they need sleep. Everybody needs sleep.
So at least one guy could get somewhat -- not to say a decent amount of shut-eye, but a little bit of shut-eye...
BALDWIN: While the other guy plays lookout.
CAINE: ... while the other guy does a lookout, you know, things of that nature.
BALDWIN: OK. OK.
So part of this plan A -- and we don't know if there was plan A, B, C and D or what, but plan A, according to Sweat, is that they were going to head in this getaway car with this seamstress friend of theirs and head straight to Mexico.
Oh, and, by the way, according to Sweat, they were going to take out -- they were going to kill her husband. I don't know how much -- escapes you have dealt with, but do you think that they would have made good on the promise to kill the husband, Lyle Mitchell?
CAINE: I think that would have been a little bit over the top. I think to go -- everybody knows at some point in time they escaped. Everybody is going to know that, which they did, several hours later.
And everybody is going to know Joyce Mitchell was part of this plan. Why would they take a chance, after they escape, to go back to Joyce Mitchell's house, spend X-amount of time there to whack her husband when, you know, it's just going to -- and they had nothing to lose by doing it. They aren't going to get any more jail time. But it's just going to take away part of the time they have to elude authorities.
BALDWIN: Slow them down.
Do you believe -- again, Sweat says this was plan A, to jump in this car and head to Mexico. It seems so well thought out, how they got out of this prison. But once they got outside the fence, this is plan A. What happened to plan B, C, and D? Do you think they even had that plan?
CAINE: They probably had a plan B, C and D. And it probably was part ever the plan of Joyce Mitchell.
BALDWIN: Ah. She was the linchpin.
CAINE: Yes. And maybe they get in her car and now they start driving through the states. Don't forget, before law enforcement puts out a BOLO, or be on the lookout, several hours passed.
CAINE: They could be, you know, Tennessee or Ohio. They could be well away from the scene. That's where Joyce Mitchell would be the excess baggage, and they would find her by the side of the road, I'm sure.
BALDWIN: So, she bailed. We all know she's in custody.
CAINE: And the best thing for her, to bail.
BALDWIN: She probably would have been dead meat as well...
So you have -- she's in custody. You have this other guard who is in custody as well. But, to your point, we were talking in commercial break and you were saying, listen, Brooke, there probably were other people on the inside in on this, because, to your point, if they're cutting through these walls and going through these catwalks and looking at all these different pipes, how were they were going to know, how would Joyce Mitchell have known which pipe to hop in to find their way to freedom?
CAINE: That's right, Brooke.
Even if they were able to access an Internet, OK, you could access the Internet and pull up schematics for everything, but I highly doubt that there are schematics for the inner cavity of Dannemora prison. OK, you take steam pipe A, and you cut a hole in it, and that is going to lead you to a pipe B, which is going to take you to a manhole cover 100 feet from the prison. They didn't just get in there and go, eeny, meeny, miny, moe, which steam pipe am I to go? They didn't do that.
BALDWIN: There's the headline for tomorrow's paper.
CAINE: Really. Really.
BALDWIN: They had help?
CAINE: They had...
BALDWIN: We will find out if he keeps talking.
CAINE: Well, that's the important thing for law enforcement, to keep this guy alive, is because they have to debrief him, and it seems like he is talking, and not only to find out what these guys did, but it's also going to get rid of the bad apples or the bad seeds that could be either in that jail or outside that jail. And the law enforcement learned.
BALDWIN: So that this never happens again.
BALDWIN: Craig Caine, thank you very much.
CAINE: Thank you, Brooke.
BALDWIN: I appreciate it.
Coming up, we will speak live with the prosecutor who actually took down Richard Matt. This was a couple of years ago, and not only says Matt had a way with the ladies, but this prosecutor was afraid Matt would kill someone in that courtroom. Don't miss that conversation.
Plus, the American economy on edge, a lot of red here on Wall Street, down 296 points now, an hour of the trading day to go, because of one tiny nation on the brink of financial collapse -- why Greece is closing banks and denying its people cash. We have that for you.
Also breaking moments ago, NBC officially dumping Donald Trump over his comments about Mexicans, Donald Trump now responding. You're watching CNN. Stay with me.
BALDWIN: He was simply known as Hacksaw, a ruthless murderer and fugitive now dead from three gunshot wounds straight from an officer's gun. But the road that led escaped inmate Richard Matt to Clinton Correctional Facility is a long one.
Let me go back. I want to show you some video from the 2008 trial here, where he was convicted in the 1997 robbery, kidnapping, murder and dismemberment of businessman William Rickerson. The trial was an absolutely horrifying one, full of details of torture, previous escape attempts and witness testimony about how Matt snapped Rickerson's neck with his bare hands.
Joining me now, Lou Haremski, the attorney who prosecuted Richard Matt in this murder case some seven years ago.
So, Lou, great to have you on.
LOU HAREMSKI, PROSECUTOR: Thank you, Brooke.
BALDWIN: Transparency's sake for our viewers, we did call you a couple of weeks ago to talk to you about Matt and you said no, fearing the possibility that he would track you down. We now know his fate, so now we will talk to you. And I appreciate you coming on.
You say you are not surprised he was killed upon capture. I want you to tell me why. HAREMSKI: Well, when we were preparing for the trial, there was
evidence that the Niagara County Sheriff's Department had received from another inmate that he was planning an escape.
And with that, part of that was that -- a statement to the inmate that he would not be taken alive. He would gut a police officer. So that obviously posed some concerns to all the courtroom staff, the attorneys, the judge.
BALDWIN: So there was that.
HAREMSKI: So when he was ultimately -- I'm sorry.
BALDWIN: No, please continue.
HAREMSKI: Oh. So when he ended up being shot by not complying with a command, it really didn't surprise me, because it was just in keeping with what he had said about eight years ago.
BALDWIN: An officer shouting at him, throw your hands up, put your hands up, and he didn't do it. Let me move on to the fact that we're now hearing from David Sweat who's talking, saying he ended up ditching Matt because he was essentially, gosh, I hate to use this phrase, but dead weight in the woods.
Does that surprise you, that Matt couldn't continue?
HAREMSKI: It does because he seemed to be such a sturdy individual, someone who we all thought, with his bare hands, had tremendous power.
He had broken Rickerson's neck bare-handed. So, yes, I am surprised that Sweat would ditch him, because I always felt that Matt would have been the mastermind behind this, and Sweat was really the beneficiary.
BALDWIN: I mean, this is a man -- and you tell me about this -- but you were afraid to even have glass in the courtroom.
Actually, there was a decision made by the judge. She had recently gone through an incredible renovation of the courtroom and wanted to protect the tables and had quarter-inch plate glass put down so that they wouldn't be destroyed.
And all that was removed because the fear was that Matt would somehow break it and use a shard from that as a weapon, in spite of the fact that Matt was wearing a stun belt while he was in the courtroom and there were six deputies in the courtroom.
HAREMSKI: So there was -- yes, there was a lot of fear about what he might do.
BALDWIN: What about just his bravado? Tell me about that.
HAREMSKI: In the courtroom, it wasn't so much bravado as it was just a cold resilience.
He seemed to be unaffected by virtually anything that was said in the courtroom, whether it was in opening, on summation, by any of the witnesses. He was pretty stony-eyed through the whole thing.
BALDWIN: He wooed this seamstress apparently, Lou, and made her believe that they would all get in this getaway car and escape to Mexico. Is that the man you knew? Was he a charmer?
HAREMSKI: Well, kind of, in a way. When we started to learn that the seamstress had been taken under his spell, it really wasn't surprising, because I had told many people that Matt was probably the most well-dressed defendant I ever prosecuted. Every day in court, he was wearing something new and chic, and the word from the jail was is that there was some woman who was borrowing the clothes to bring in to him, so that he would look good for the jury.
It was really kind of strange.
BALDWIN: He had a woman bringing him the best of the best suits to wear in that courthouse?
HAREMSKI: Yes. That was the word. I felt kind of underdressed sitting across the aisle from him.
BALDWIN: Oh, Lou.
Lou, you did your job, and now we know what happened to him. My goodness.
Lou Haremski, thank you so much for coming on. I appreciate it.
HAREMSKI: You're quite welcome.
BALDWIN: Just ahead, a guard at that super maximum security prison, that Clinton Correctional Facility, appears in court any moment now. He's the one accused of smuggling that hamburger meat that was full of tools to both Sweat and Matt -- what his lawyer says about that.
Also, Donald Trump taking heat for his comments about Mexican immigrants. He said they bring crime, they bring drugs. He called them rapists. And now one business is cutting ties with him completely. But you know what? Donald Trump not backing down.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have to be less politically correct, and we have to be strong. And, you know, you take beatings, you really take beatings when you tell the truth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Hear how he's responding to NBC next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: Donald Trump's recent remarks about immigration are going to hit him in his considerable bank account. We already knew he was quitting his job as a reality TV star on NBC, but now the network, pointing to his remarks about Mexican immigrants, say she he will have to find a new TV home for his Miss USA and Miss Universe pageants, details on that in just a second here.
But also we just heard from Donald Trump just last hour there in Chicago. And anyone looking for some of his trademark straight talk, well, he did not disappoint.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: When I announced a week-and-a-half, two weeks ago, I got such great reviews on the speech. I didn't use teleprompters. I would love to use a teleprompter and have one here, one here, and I would go like this, say, ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba.
TRUMP: Somebody has to come out and tell it like it is. I deal with politicians all my life. I have made a lot of money with politicians. But other than the ones in this room, politicians are all talk and no action.
TRUMP: And we have to be less politically correct. And we have to be strong. And, you know, you take beatings, you really take beatings when you tell the truth. I love the Mexican people. I have a great relationship with Mexico. How can I not love people that give me tens of millions of dollars for apartments?
There is a CNN poll just came out. Who's the best on terrorism? Trump right at the top. Who's the best on handling international trade? Trump is like almost double anybody else, right? The best on handling the economy, Trump by far. Who's a nice person? Trump is last.
TRUMP: Why don't we just call off the election today? Let's put the country back in shape.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Ryan Lizza is keeping an eye on all things presidential for us. He covers Washington for "The New Yorker" magazine. And I have got Brian Stelter with me here, our senior media correspondent, host of "RELIABLE SOURCES."
So, Brian Stelter, to you first because I know you have new information about Donald Trump's broken business dealings with NBC. What happened?
BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: NBC severing all its business ties with Trump in the last hour, Brooke.
And this is because there have been calls for days from Hispanic leaders, saying, how can you be in business with this man if he's calling Mexican immigrants rapists and killers? Univision last week dumped the Miss USA Pageant, which Trump owns half of. But NBC owns the other half.
So, pressure was mounting on NBC. And an hour ago, they said they are not going to air Miss USA in July, they're not going to air Miss Universe anymore. Now, what this means for the contestants is unclear. And what this means for the business deal is unclear. Are they going to sell back to Trump? Is Trump going to sell their stake to NBC? That's unclear for the moment.
But Trump did just speak out about this in Chicago. He hinted that he might sue NBC. Here's what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: And as long as I'm running for president, they were not happy with it. They wanted me to do "The Apprentice." And now, with my statements on immigration, which happen to be correct, they are going to take a different stance, and that's OK.
I mean, whatever they want to do is OK with me. I have had a lot of -- great relationship with NBC. I think, as far as ending the relationship, I have to do that, because my view on immigration is much different than the people at NBC.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STELTER: So, maybe slightly more mellow than he talks about Univision. He had said he's going to sue Univision. So far, Brooke, he is only saying he might have to sue NBC. He's not going nearly as far on this case.
BALDWIN: So, quickly, was he leaving the door open for somebody else to do "Apprentice"?
STELTER: I think he is. NBC is saying that they might keep the show on the air with a new host.
BALDWIN: Who would do it?
STELTER: So, we can start to guess. Well, I don't know. "Shark Tank" has five hosts, like Mark Cuban.
STELTER: There's a lot of billionaires and millionaires out there who might love to host "The Apprentice" some day. BALDWIN: OK.
Ryan Lizza, let's talk politics and Donald Trump, because, listen, people love a little blunt talk, but come on. Given what Donald Trump has said about immigration and the border and Mexicans, that gets candidates in trouble.
RYAN LIZZA, "THE NEW YORKER": Absolutely.
And I think it's a very brave decision by NBC to say, look, we're not -- we don't care if you're running for president. We're not going to tolerate that kind of talk about Mexican-Americans or immigrants.
And, look, let's be frank, it's partly a financial decision, of course. It's a growing, very important group in this country. And they're saying that they're just not going to tolerate that kind of thing. I think in that clip that you just showed of Trump, if I'm not mistaken, what he said is, NBC, you can't fire me, because I quit.
He was trying to turn it around there, saying that he has to end this relationship. I'm not sure that's really the sequence of events here.
STELTER: Yes, it is not. It is not.
LIZZA: And, politically -- I don't know what you guys think, but, politically, I think all of this just plays into Trump's hands.
He loves these fights. He can go out there to Republican audiences and say, oh, it's the political -- politically correct Hollywood and New York liberals who won't tolerate my straight talk on immigration. And, frankly, he will find an audience for that in the Republican primaries.
BALDWIN: This is the red meat stuff that some folks in his base chew up.
Let me pivot to talk about Joe Biden, because we know he's been out of the campaign conversation just for a little bit. I know a lot of the focus has been on Hillary Clinton, but mourning the recent death of his son Beau. "Wall Street Journal," Ryan, reporting that Beau Biden and his brother had been urging their dad to make a run for the White House.
How might that shape his decision?
LIZZA: You know, I wonder. It's such a personal thing.
He has suffered so much loss.
BALDWIN: Tremendous loss.
LIZZA: And I wonder if that may weigh on him in making this decision. I think, from a purely political perspective, it's a tough race for
him. You know, the person that is having success right now is Bernie Sanders against Hillary Clinton, and Bernie is way out there on the left to Hillary, and I don't really see Biden filling that role. You know what I mean?
Could even help Sanders in a way, because then you would sort of have two establishment figures in the race and you would just have that left vacuum to fill. So I think it's still a very tough road for Biden. If you look at the polls, he's usually mentioned in these polls and he hasn't been climbing.
On the other hand, we have seen that there are some vulnerabilities that Hillary Clinton has. She's not as strong as she was a few months ago. And so maybe he will take another look at this and decide this summer that there's an opening for him.
BALDWIN: Ryan Lizza, thank you, my friend.
And, Brian Stelter, thank you as well.
STELTER: Thanks, Brooke.
BALDWIN: Coming up next, back to this story here, this prison guard accused of smuggling all that hamburger meat into these two escaped inmates, he will be in court very, very shortly. And the faces he's -- the charges he's facing and how his lawyer is responding to this, explaining this, that's next.
Plus, what life back in prison will be like this go-around for this captured fugitive and killer David Sweat. We will talk to a former federal inmate about that next.