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David Sweat Talks; David Sweat's Capture; NBC Dumps Trump; Greece Closes Banks. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired June 29, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[14:00:00] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Right now.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Here we go. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thanks for being with me.

Because now we can tell you after 23 days on the run, convicted cop killer David Sweat has not just been shot and captured, but is now spilling his story to police. From his original plan, to head straight to Mexico in a car driven by his alleged prison girlfriend, seamstress Joyce Mitchell, to his improvised life on the run when she failed to show up outside those prison gates.

All of this we're getting here from sources talking to CNN, telling us that inside this hospital in Albany, New York, this once elusive fugitive it even telling police that fellow inmate Richard Matt was dead weight.

Joining me first up, Sara Ganim, who was there in the thick of all of it.

And so, Sara, we know Sweat, obviously, recovering. He's well enough inside that hospital to start talking. He even says he abandoned Richard Matt, aka hack saw. When does he claim to have left him?

SARA GANIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, good afternoon, Brooke.

He says that he left his partner in crime about five days ago. Now, you put that together with some information CNN's also getting from other law enforcement sources that says that Richard Matt had fallen ill, either from drinking maybe bad water or eating some bad food while they were on the run for about three weeks. He had fallen ill, and David Sweat now telling authorities from his hospital bed that he left him behind.

Now, Richard Matt was caught and then shot and killed on Friday in an area about 16 miles from where his partner David Sweat was caught yesterday. So, you know, we now know that they were walking. That their plan A, to run away with the prison seamstress, Joyce Mitchell, to Mexico fell through when she decided not to show up. And this was their plan B. They were simply walking. Both of them found in a county - one county over from the prison where they escaped, about 30 miles to the west and, in some cases, to the north. We know David Sweat was about two miles south of the border with Canada when he was arrested.

Now really quickly, Brooke, he's been upgraded here at the hospital - David Sweat has been upgraded from critical to serious condition. He's being very closely watched in this hospital. He will not have to have surgery, but he will be here for a few more days.

BALDWIN: The beginning of perhaps more talking for this man. Sara Ganim, keep us posted. Thank you so much.

Let me take you live now to my colleague, Polo Sandoval, who's actually standing next to that field where this bloody picture of David Sweat was taken. This is the field where his 23 days on the run came to an end with two gunshots to the back.

So, Polo, this police officer who spotted him, who shot him, he is being hailed a hero. How did this all go down?

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Like a Hollywood movie, Brooke, that's how people are describing it. It really was a very dramatic ending that took place here yesterday. The police officer that spoke to New York Governor Andrew Cuomo saying that he was driving down the road where you see these parked cars, identified a suspicious individual. He claims that he was able to identify him as David Sweat, at which point Sweat immediately makes a break for the tree line that you see off in the distance there, Brooke.

Two main concerns on the mind of this police sergeant was, one of them, that Sweat was covered - was wearing camouflage clothing. So the main concern is, if he was able to make it into that wooded area, he could lose him, lose sight of him and he would slip away. The other concern, Brooke, only about a mile and a half beyond this tree line, well, that's actually the U.S./Canadian border. So that's when this officer, Jay Cook, drew his weapon, he got down on one knee, according to what he's telling the governor, and then shot two times, hitting this cop killer right in the back. He was taken into custody. And with those two shots, it really was the beginning of the end of this manhunt that had so many people in upstate New York living in fear.

BALDWIN: Polo Sandoval in the field where it all happened. Thank you so much, Polo.

There's a lot to get to here. Let me bring in Art Roderick, former assistant director for the U.S. Marshal's Office.

So, Art, you know, before we get into all the nitty-gritty details, the fact that we now know, you know, it's not even been 24 hours since Sweat was taken down in that field. He's been through, you know, been in the hospital. The fact that he ditched his buddy Matt about five days ago, two days before he was killed by police, apparently sick, because Matt was slowing him down. Do you think that was actually the beginning of the end for Sweat?

ARTHUR RODERICK, FORMER ASSISTANT DIRECTOR, U.S. MARSHAL'S OFFICE: Yes, I think - I think there's a couple of issues here, Brooke. I mean, number one, when they did the identification of the DNA in that cabin down in Dannemora where the guards apparently owned that particular cabin, I knew at that point they had cut the gap that two weeks from when they were in jail. And I thought they were getting very close. [14:05:02] The fact that Matt got sick doesn't surprise me. Bad food,

bad water can do that to anybody. You're out in those woods. I'm sure it was dysentery that he probably had. And he became literally dead weight for Sweat. And I think that's probably either at that point in time or shortly thereafter that they ended up splitting up.

BALDWIN: When you look also, too - we're showing pictures on loop, these pictures of Sweat being taken down in this field, bloodied, in the camouflage.

RODERICK: Yes.

BALDWIN: Apparently on him, just some nuggets, on him, Pop-Tarts, repellent, like, you know, mosquito repellent. He had maps on him. But he was unarmed and he was near that road. And when you look at the field, it's not that densely wood. To be so near a road, knowing everyone is looking for him, do you think he was near giving up?

RODERICK: I don't think so because he bolted. I mean, he took off from the state trooper once the trooper identified him. I think he thought he was so close to the border that he was making a run for - for freedom, which to me was kind of odd in and of itself because he would have just been out of the frying pan into the fire if he tried to cross the Canadian border. Our friends on the other side were ready and waiting. But the fact that he bolted I think, you know, means he was still looking to get away. But also I was very surprised he didn't have a weapon on him.

BALDWIN: Right. Perhaps he did at one point in time, but, right, totally unarmed. Richard Matt, by the way, you know, a couple of days ago when he was caught, he was shot in the head.

RODERICK: Right.

BALDWIN: And then David Sweat, he was hit twice in his torso. I'm wondering - and you tell me. You know, if you're a member of this task force, do you think these - do you think these officers were directed, if you have eyes on someone, try to take them alive?

RODERICK: Absolutely. You always try to take somebody alive. And in this particular case, this fits into what's called a deadly force policy. This individual was a murder. In fact, he had killed a law enforcement officer brutally. And that there was an imminent danger to the public. If he got away and got into the woods, you know, who knows what would have happened at this point on. So he had - he was right within his rights, this Sergeant Cook from the NY State Police, was well within his rights to make that shot. It's a clean shot - shooting, and I don't think there's going to be any issue regarding this shooting, anybody questioning why he - why he pulled the trigger in this particular situation.

BALDWIN: Art Roderick, thank you so much. Former assistant director for the U.S. Marshal's Office.

RODERICK: Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: It's over. Twenty-three days and it's over. Thank you so much.

RODERICK: Yes, it's over. Yes, thank you.

BALDWIN: Next - next, what will life be like, moving this ball forward here, what will life be like for this man behind bars? Ahead, how will the guards treat him? How will his fellow prisoners treat him if he gets to see any of them, if he's not in total seclusion for the rest of his life? We'll talk to a former inmate.

And the American economy on edge with one nation on the brink of financial collapse. See all the red there on Wall Street today, down 250 points here. Less than two hours left to go in this trading day. Why Greece is closing banks and denying cash.

And, the moment that everyone is still talking about. We're all watching this live, happened together on Friday. Listen to that. The president singing "Amazing Grace" at that Charleston funeral service. We will speak live to the organist who felt so moved to chime in, in that moment during that surprise. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:12:34] BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

And, well, the nightmare may be over, but the process of piecing together exactly how these two convicted killers escaped and stayed on the run for three weeks, that has just begun. CNN Has learned from a source that David Sweat is now talking, he's telling investigators that the plan was for that prison seamstress, their lady friend, Joyce Mitchell, to pick both of them up once they'd escaped and head straight to Mexico. But when she didn't show, these two had to improvise. The captured killer is also telling investigators he left Matt behind five days ago because Matt was slowing him down.

So, Chandra Bozelko, I want to welcome you back, a former inmate at the York Correctional Facility.

My first question to you is, the fact that he is now talking, what is it in for Sweat to even talk?

CHANDRA BOZELKO, FORMER INMATE, YORK CORRECTIONAL FACILITY: Personally, having been in segregation myself, although not having escaped, I don't think there's that much in it for him at all to be telling what really happened. As you know, he had a prison staffer, two, involved in his escape and the people who remain -

BALDWIN: At least, that we know of.

BOZELKO: Yes. I mean the investigation continues. But their colleagues still work there, and they've lost at least two of their own. There's a very severe bunker mentality, a very strict cohesion amongst guards. And since they've lost at least two of their colleagues, there's going to be some resentment towards Sweat for what has happened and that he involved guards and staff members that really had no business getting involved with any inmate business whatsoever. BALDWIN: You call it a bunker mentality. I've also heard from someone

else, it's like this brotherhood, right, this brotherhood of corrections officers. And so if - if he does break it and start talking about this guard or potentially other guards who were in on it for who knows how long the planning happened, and let's say he doesn't go back, Chandra, to this - to this facility, he goes somewhere else, will the word still spread whenever he lands?

BOZELKO: I think the word probably has spread. In my experience, within a state correctional system, the guards transfer around a lot of times. They can move throughout the state and then switch to a prison or facility closer to their home. Sometimes there might actually be a problem where they're working. Maybe a problem with an inmate. They know an inmate. So they'd be transferred out to another facility. So the likelihood that he'll never see another guard that worked at Dannemora is, I would say, low. I can't say he'll - he'll see all of them, but he'll see some of them.

[14:15:02] BALDWIN: But if he's in seclusion, or in solidary, I mean for, let's say, the rest of his life, how could a guard even make that life even more of a living hell?

BOZELKO: Well, when you're in solitary, you are totally dependent on the guards to meet your every need, from things as basic as food, toilet paper, the toiletries that you need, toothpaste, toothbrush, et cetera. You're also - if someone - if a guard is somewhat abusive or hostile towards you in segregation, you have nowhere to go to complain or to ask for some relief or assistance. You're stuck complaining to the exact person who might be giving you a hard time. So it's very hard.

They control everything that will go in and out of his cell, which is, might I say, very little. He will get food. He'll get the bare minimum of what he needs. But other than that, David Sweat has a very, very long road of ahead of him in a tiny little cell.

BALDWIN: What about inmates? Does he even care how other inmates may treat him?

BOZELKO: At this point, I mean, he may have contact with inmates. There are a lot of inmates assist guards like, you know, help them handing out food, things like that, in the segregation unit. So he'll have a little bit of contact with inmates.

Generally, I mean, if an inmate is professional in taking their job, their work assignment seriously within the prison. They won't act adversely toward Sweat. If they're angry because they lost some type of privileges or there's a continuing punishment for the people who remained after the escape, then they might give him a hard time. But I doubt that he'll ever be alone enough to be say physically assaulted by another inmate. I don't think that that would happen because he's going to be watched so closely for the rest of his life.

BALDWIN: Having spent time behind bars, if you were to have David Sweat sitting in front of you, knowing what you know and what we really don't know, what's the one question you'd ask of him? BOZELKO: What were you thinking? Because this was a failed plan from

before it even started.

BALDWIN: Chandra Bozelko, thank you so much.

BOZELKO: I mean I should also -

BALDWIN: Yes, yes, go - go -

BOZELKO: Thank you for having me back.

BALDWIN: A little bit of a delay. I was going to let her go, but that's fine. Chandra Bozelko, what were you thinking. I think we're all wondering that and more.

Just ahead, growing anxiety from the trading floor to the streets of Greece.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD QUEST, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Is this the sort of thing -

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE).

CHRIS CUOMO, ANCHOR, CNN'S "NEW DAY": Watch yourself, Richard.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: That was Richard Quest reporting on that earlier today there in Greece, just showing what it's like, how desperate people are there. Banks shut down. Some ATMs totally maxed out. What happens next and will the ripple effect reach U.S. shores?

Also, "Amazing Grace," the moment from that eulogy of the Reverend Pinckney there in Charleston. The president breaking out in a hymn. It surprised just about everyone, including the church organist, who felt moved to play. We'll talk to him about that powerful moment straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:22:11] BALDWIN: Got some breaking news on someone who says he wants to be the president of the United States and has just been speaking in Chicago. And, listen, let's just call it what it is, he's made some pretty derogatory and racist comments about certain people in this world, and as a result that may come back and bite him as far as a certain company is concerned. Let me bring in our CNN senior media correspondent Brian Stelter with the latest news here on NBC's relationship with Mr. Trump.

Go ahead, Brian.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): NBC is saying it's going to sever all business ties with Donald Trump. Now you might say to yourself, what are they doing in business with Donald Trump in the first place? Well, we all know he's on "The Apprentice," "The Celebrity Apprentice." And NBC had already said they were going to re-evaluate whether he was going to be remaining the host now that he's running for president. Obviously he can't host a reality show when he's running for president.

But now the network's going further, Brooke. Now the network is saying it's not going to air "Miss USA" or "Miss Universe" anymore. Those are the pageants that Donald Trump and NBC jointly own. They own those pageants together. One of them is coming up in two weeks, "Miss USA." But now NBC is not going to air that pageant.

And that's all because of the comments Donald Trump made two weeks ago talking about Mexican immigrants, describing some of them as rapists and as murders. There was an outcry that began in the Hispanic community. And last week Univision, the Spanish language network, that was also going to be broadcasting "Miss USA" said, no way, we're not going to broadcast this pageant if Donald Trump is a part of it. So Univision backed out. And then calls really focused on NBC to do the same thing. And now, Brooke, NBC is saying, yes, they are going to break up with Donald Trump, no longer be in business with him at all.

BALDWIN: We will talk a little bit more about Donald Trump next hour. As I mentioned, he spoke in Chicago and it's noted what he mentioned there as well.

Brian Stelter, thank you so much. We'll talk about that next hour.

In meantime, let me move on and talk about something extraordinarily important potentially here to every single one of us as it pertains to Greece. This looming economic default by the Greek government could have a huge impact on all of us globally. Banks are closed for the week and most ATMs there, they're out of cash. Just think about that for a minute. You go up to an ATM, you can't get money.

And while Greece has been in this financial bind, as you well know for a long time, it now owes billions to its European lenders and the bills are now coming due. You remember the pictures some years ago, the violent street protests five years ago when the government tried to impose spending cuts and laid off government workers? Greece wants the world's help, but the Greek people do not want those austerity measures, the belt tightening, when it comes with the loans that keep them afloat.

So let me bring in "Fortune" magazine editor Alan Murray to just get some answers for us.

And so just, welcome, by the way. Wonderful to have you.

ALAN MURRAY, EDITOR, FORTUNE MAGAZINE: Thank you. Good to be here.

BALDWIN: If Greece defaults on its loans, what does that mean for the rest of us?

MURRAY: You know, in theory, it shouldn't mean much. Greece is a tiny little country. It's about the size of Louisiana. Most of this debt is owed to official lenders, the IMF, the European Central Bank, European governments. Bank debt is mostly gotten out (ph). So in theory, this should be well contained. But it -

[14:25:11] BALDWIN: In theory?

MURRAY: In theory.

BALDWIN: But it's not?

MURRAY: But as we know, in fact, contagion works in funny ways. Markets are psychological in their reactions sometimes, and we're at a moment where there's concern about Greece, there's concern about what's going on in China where the stock market has dropped. There's concern about the Fed raising rates later this year. So there's always the possibility that those concerns congeal around a Greek default in a dangerous way.

BALDWIN: It is tiny. Let me just point to some numbers here. Greece only represents 2 percent of the Eurozone economies. Its economy has shrunk 25 percent in recent years. So the economy's smaller now to Oregon's. But the president was on the phone over the weekend with European leaders, you know, obviously trying to encourage them to avoid some sort of default. How could a default affect my 401(k)?

MURRAY: Well, if a default causes wider panic in financial markets, we saw some of that today. I mean the Dow was down about 250 points.

BALDWIN: Huge. Yes.

MURRAY: So if - if it precipitates broader concern about the state of the global economy, then it could have a direct effect on you. Not so much because you have your holding stocks that are closely related to Greece, but because it creates a psychological spillover effect.

BALDWIN: What about the Eurozone? I mean this is about unity in Europe.

MURRAY: Yes, that's a big deal.

BALDWIN: How could it - you're saying they don't want out of the euro but -

MURRAY: No, this is a - look, it's clearly a problem for the Greeks, right? You have 30 percent unemployment. And whether they do the austerity deal or they don't do the austerity deal, it's going to get worse in Greece before it gets better. But it's also a profound, almost existential question for the European Union. I mean Greece probably didn't quite belong in the EU to begin with. But then if Greece doesn't belong, what about Portugal? What about Spain? You know, where does the attention turn next? Does this precipitate a sort of cascading sense of Europe falling apart, which would obviously have profound impact on Europe and on the rest of the world.

So that's why it's really hard to judge the path ahead. You can say tiny country, doesn't really matter much, but the psychological effects and the cascading effects could be very large.

BALDWIN: Alan Murray, thank you so much. MURRAY: Brooke, good to be here.

BALDWIN: We'll be watching for the vote next weekend and see what happens. The whole worse before getting better thing to your point. Thank you.

MURRAY: Thanks.

BALDWIN: Next here, back to our breaking story. Mexico was plan A. These new details quickly emerging from captured prison escapee David Sweat, who is now talking, revealing secrets about where they have been and where they had planned to go.

And a little later, much more from presidential candidate Donald Trump on the campaign trail today in Chicago, paying close attention to his poll position.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The reason I'm doing well in the polls, and it's very interesting because I just got these and CNN is back there live, I see CNN down there, but there's a CNN poll that just came out and they have interesting categories. Who's the best on terrorism? That's a pretty important subject. Trump right at the top.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)