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CNN NEWSROOM

Survivor's Friend Recounts Shooting Incident; Remembering the Victims of the Charleston Church Shooting; Obama Revives Gun Control Debate After Shooting. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired June 19, 2015 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[09:00:01] PEREIRA: Fought through it, rebuild. There is resilience in these people. And they will rebuild. And they're going to link their arms together to do it -- Chris, Alisyn.

CUOMO: And we will do our best to watch that process along.

Very good job to you both. Thanks for doing such great work down there. It continues now with the "NEWSROOM" and Miss Carol Costello.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks to all of you. Have a great weekend.

NEWSROOM starts now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: Happening now in the NEWSROOM.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They wanted segregation.

COSTELLO: Inside the mind of the alleged gunman behind the Charleston church massacre.

JOEY MEEKS, FRIEND OF DYLANN ROOF: I think he wanted something big like Trayvon Martin. He wanted to make something to spark up the race war again.

COSTELLO: Dylann Roof in court in just hours, accused of killing nine people.

SYLVIA JOHNSON, FRIEND SURVIVED SOUTH CAROLINA CHURCH MASSACRE: He said, no, you raped our women and you are taking over the country.

COSTELLO: Is he a terrorist? And the Confederate Flag still flying on the ground of the South Carolina capitol.

REP. MARK SANFORD (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: I guess for some folks, that represents heritage, for others it represents hate.

COSTELLO: Should it come down?

Plus --

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We, as a country, will have to reckon with the fact that this type of mass violence does not happen in other advanced countries.

COSTELLO: After this massacre President Obama calling for gun control, again.

OBAMA: I have had to make statements like this too many times.

COSTELLO: Will it get traction this time around?

Let's talk. Live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me. A community grieves and a nation weary of senseless killings, gropes for answers. Why did a gunman mow down worshipers inside an iconic southern church?

New this morning, two law enforcement officials tell CNN that Roof has confessed to the shootings. Those same sources say Roof bough the .45 caliber handgun himself back in April.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: How do you feel?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Anything to say? At all?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What do you have to say?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Today, Americans will likely get a fresh look at the suspect, 21-year-old Dylann Roof but his expected court appearance is unlikely to flush out the portrait of a seemingly troubled young man brisling with contempt for African-Americans.

In his Facebook photo, a sullen Roof wears the flags of two former white supremacist governments. Apartheid era South Africa and the former country of Rhodesia. In another picture, Roof mugs in front of his car, the license plate boasts Confederate States of America. It was that car that led to his arrest when a florist recognized it from news reports and tailed it for 30 minutes until police could close in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DEBBIE DILLS, REPORTED SIGHTING OF SHOOTING SUSPECT: I'm telling you, divine intervention. I'm telling you, God had me where I needed to be. I'm not going to tell I wasn't afraid. I was scared. I was -- I was scared. You know? But I just kept saying, Lord, you know, if I can just get there and I can do it safely. I wasn't going to try to put myself or anybody else in danger. If I can do it safely, get his tag number.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: We are covering all angles of this unfolding story. Let's begin our focus on the suspect.

CNN's Nick Valencia live in Charleston, South Carolina. Good morning.

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. 21-year-old Dylann Roof wakes up in a North Charleston County jail this morning after being captured about 245 miles away from the site of that massacre at the church shooting at Emanuel AME.

This today is supposed to be his first formal court appearance here in the state of South Carolina. He already appeared in court in North Carolina. We expect those murder charges against the 21-year-old to be formalized. He will likely appear via video link just because of the media frenzy surrounding his court case.

Yesterday, Carol, it was all about finding him, exactly where he was, his whereabouts. That is now complete today. It's finding out more about him. We spoke to Silvia Johnson, whose friend survived the massacre on Wednesday night. She may be able to provide a little bit of insight. She talked to us about what her friend told her the conversations were like in the church before the shooting happened.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHNSON: What I heard is after shooting a couple of rounds, her son tried to talk him into not committing anymore acts of murder. And --

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Her son tried to talk with him down.

JOHNSON: Hurt them -- yes, he did. Sure. He did. He tried to talk him down. He said, no, you raped our women and you are taking over the country.

COOPER: You have raped our women and you're taking over the country?

JOHNSON: You're taking over the country. I have to do what I have to do.

COOPER: And he continued shooting.

[09:05:01] JOHNSON: And he shot the young man. His mother was there and she witnessed, she pretended as though she was dead, as she was shot and dead. But she watched her son fall and laid there. And she laid there in his blood.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VALENCIA: CNN was also given exclusive video, perhaps the last images of Clementa Pinckney alive. Those snap shot images given to CNN show a small intimate gathering there at that church bible study group. We were told by state senator yesterday just 13 people in that bible study group, including the shooter. Today the headline this morning in the "Post and Courier" paper, "The Unspeakable Happening in this City."

But, Carol, many people are speaking about this and that's exactly how the healing is happening here in Charleston. We went to go get a cup of coffee this morning and ran into a local resident who was in tears talking about this, praying over this, and she really speaks for so many in this community, a community that is relieved that the suspect is now in custody, but still grieving after losing nine innocent lives in just an unspeakable tragedy -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Nick Valencia reporting live from Charleston, South Carolina, this morning.

Those who knew Roof say he often ranted about race and always had a weapon by his side. Listen to what one friend told ABC's "Nightline."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MEEKS: He wanted segregation.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What did he wanted to see happened? How is he going to do this?

MEEKS: I think he wanted to me something big like Trayvon Martin. He wanted to make some -- spark up the race war again.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What kind of guns did he have?

MEEKS: A .45 Glock.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: 45 Glock? Did he carry it around?

MEEKS: In his car.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Authorities are also trying to figure out whether Roof had any ties to white supremacists or hate groups. According to the Southern Poverty Law Center, South Carolina is home to nearly 20 hate groups, including the Ku Klux Klan. We should point out South Carolina is also one of few states without any hate crime law on the books.

So let's talk about all of this with CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney Paul Callan.

Thanks for being here.

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Nice being here.

COSTELLO: OK. So Roof is set to appear in court later this afternoon. What's going to happen there?

CALLAN: Well, it's going to be not really the routine arraignment what you would see in a criminal case because of the press interest and the security interest in the case. We're hearing that it might be done by video, which is unusual. Usually, the suspect is produced in court.

In the end, though, this is the start of a long process that's going to lead to a death penalty trial in South Carolina. It's a state that has the death penalty. Death penalty by lethal injection. Generally although electrocution is also a possibility. The statute allows for either.

The first thing I think we're going to be looking at, and you can forget about bail, of course, there'll be no bail in the case. The first thing the court will be looking at, is he competent to stand trial? When you look at a fact pattern that is so horrific, and a guilt pattern here that would appear to be so clear, defense attorneys are going to be looking at only one defense, and that's an insanity defense.

So the first thing the court will be looking at is, is he competent to stand trial? And that's a very low hurdle. If he understands the charges against him and he can assist his attorney in his defense, he's competent to stand trial.

COSTELLO: If James Holmes is competent to stand trial in Colorado, this guy is.

CALLAN: Well, and certainly what -- in terms of the amount of planning that obviously had to go into this, it seems that he's quite competent.

COSTELLO: Well, let's talk about the planning. Because there are a lot of people who say saying he should be charged with domestic terrorism especially in light of the fact that he told authorities he wanted to start a race war, he wanted segregation to become the law of the land, again. So should he be charged with domestic terrorism?

CALLAN: Well, my personal view is that this is an act of terrorism because terrorism if you define it, I mean, we think of it in terms of Islamic terrorism and that sort of thing. But what terrorism really is, it's a murder of civilians to advance a political ideology. His ideology happens to be hatred of African-Americans and black people. That's an act of terrorism.

But the second question prosecutors look at when they look at whether this should be charged as terrorism or as a hate crime, will that make my case harder to prove because right now they have a very easy murder case to prove. Unless something comes up that we don't know about at this point, it looks like a clear cut case against him. It looks like he can assert insanity, but he'll never win with the insanity defense.

Now if you add in terrorism and you add hate counts, you'll probably get convictions for those, but it just makes the case a little bit more difficult to prove. But the criminal justice system functions on two levels. The first is punishing the guilty. But it also had to send a message and I -- if people want it charged as a hate crime and as an act of terrorism, there might be sense to do that in the criminal justice system. That's something for elected officials to look at.

COSTELLO: Paul Callan, thank you so much.

[09:10:01] CALLAN: OK. Thank you.

COSTELLO: You made it very clear, I appreciate that.

Now let's turn the focus on the victims. They were brought together by prayer and torn from their families by an explosion of violence and hatred. But that's not how their legacy will be written.

Here's CNN's Michaela Pereira.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Carol, emotional vigils being held for the victims that were gunned down in this senseless act of violence. Family and friends remember the loved one who were killed in a place of worship.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PEREIRA (voice-over): From the heart of a tragedy in South Carolina --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our hope is in God.

PEREIRA: To the historic walls of the Ebenezer Baptist Church in Georgia. Thousands came to mourn. Nine of Charleston's most prominent educators and religious leaders killed inside Emanuel AME Church Wednesday, including four beloved reverends.

Among them 74-year-old retired Reverend Daniel Simmons who attended the church every Sunday. 49-year-old Reverend Depayne Middleton- Doctor who served her community in the Learning Center of Southern Wesley University. 45-year-old Reverend Sharonda Singleton pictured here with her son on Mother's Day. Coached a local high school.

Consoled by his teammates, Chris Singleton remembers his mom.

CHRIS SINGLETON, MOM KILLED IN CHARLESTON SHOOTING: So we just love the way my mom would and the hate won't be anywhere close to what love is.

PEREIRA: And the distinctive voice of Reverend Clementa Pinckney, leader of the Emanuel AME Church was silenced, gunned down as he preached.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And to see him die face down in the ground.

PEREIRA: A state senator, Reverend Pinckney became the youngest African-American ever elected to the South Carolina legislature. After the shooting of Walter Scott by police, he stressed the need for body police cameras in South Carolina.

REV. CLEMENTA PINCKNEY, SOUTH CAROLINA STATE SENATOR: And that a badge and a gun does not give them superiority or will trump their constitutionally protected privileges and rights in South Carolina.

PEREIRA: Friends and family struggle to cope with the loss of so many inside a place of worship. Recent college graduate Tywanza Sanders, just 26 years old, lost his life. Cynthia Hurd, 54 years old, she worked for decades as a librarian. Now as a tribute to her life of service, it will be renamed in her honor. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just want to know why, like why would you do

something like this?

PEREIRA: Tim Jackson mourning the loss of his 87-year-old grandmother, Susie. He remembers her as a loving person with a great smile. Susie's 70-year-old cousin, Ethel Lance, also killed. And Myra Thompson, 59, she was teaching the bible study held each Wednesday when the gunman opened fire.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PEREIRA: So important to remember those victims on this day. We should let you know, there's another vigil being held tonight. It will happen at 6:00 p.m. here in Charleston. It's being held at a nearby college -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Michaela Pereira reporting. Thank you. I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[09:17:21] MICHELLE OBAMA, FIRST LADY: As my husband said yesterday, simply saying that our thoughts and prayers are with the victims and their families in the community of Charleston simply doesn't convey the heartache we all feel. We have seen too many tragedies like this. And there is something particularly horrifying about something that happened so senseless in a house of worship.

So, my heart goes out to the people of Emanuel and to the people of Charleston. I pray for a community I know is in pain and with the hope that tragedies like these will one day come to an end.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: The first lady, Michelle Obama, offering her condolences to the victims of the shooting in Charleston, South Carolina.

For President Obama, the deadly theme was all too familiar. A gunman opening fire, ripping a hole through the community and the nation in the process. And once again, the president stepped in front of cameras to urge calm. But he also renewed his call to tighten U.S. gun laws.

Senior White House correspondent Jim Acosta has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's a problem that has dogged President Obama like no other, mass shootings in America.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I've had to make statements like this too many times. ACOSTA: This time, the president and vice president knew one of the

victims, the pastor of the church where the nation's latest rampage occurred, South Carolina State Senator Clementa Pinckney.

The killings in Charleston, Mr. Obama said, should serve as an all too familiar wake-up call.

OBAMA: It doesn't happen in other places with this kind of frequency. And it is in our power to do something about it.

ACOSTA: But he has spoken out on mass shootings at least 14 times during his presidency, from Ft. Hood, to Tucson, Aurora, Oak Creek, Newtown, and in the nation's capital. One nearly took the life of Congresswoman Gabby Giffords, another happened at the movies.

OBAMA: What if Malia and Sasha had been at the movie theater, as many of our kids do every day?

ACOSTA: And again at Sandy Hook Elementary, a day the president described as his worst in office.

OBAMA: These tragedies must end. And to end them, we must change.

ACOSTA: The president pushed for a new measure that would have required background checks on firearms sold at gun shows and online.

OBAMA: Gabby Giffords deserves a vote. The families of Oak Creek, and Tucson, and Blacksburg, and the countless other communities ripped open by gun violence, they deserve a simple vote.

[09:20:02] ACOSTA: But after a massive lobbying effort by the National Rifle Association, the bipartisan proposal was defeated.

JOE BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The amendment is not agreed to.

OBAMA: There were no coherent arguments as to why we wouldn't do this. It came down to politics.

ACOSTA: Republican senator and presidential candidate Rand Paul condemned the violence in Charleston, but argued more gun control isn't the answer.

SEN. RAND PAUL (R), KENTUCKY: There's something terribly wrong, but it isn't going to be fixed by your government.

ACOSTA: Jim Acosta, CNN, the White House.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: All right. Let's talk about this. Ben Ferguson is a conservative radio talk show host. And Brian Joyce is a featured blogger for "The Huffington Post" and radio talk show host himself.

Welcome to both of you.

BRIAN JOYCE, BLOGGER, THE HUFFINGTON POST: Thank you.

BEN FERGUSON, CONSERVATIVE RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Good morning.

COSTELLO: You know, when these things happen, Ben, we talk maybe we should review our gun laws, maybe something should be done, then we move on and nothing happens. Everybody argues whether it's the right time to do it or not and blah, blah, blah.

FERGUSON: Yes. I mean, look, this is a situation where it is easy to push a political narrative that gun control laws sort of stop this. But the reality is, based on the information we have information we have on this gun, even the gun control laws many wanted to push and the Democrats, including the president, would not have outlawed the gun he used. I mean, you have an issue here with a sick, deranged human being. There isn't a law that you could have passed to stop this from happening.

He broke gun laws with the crime he committed. There's countless laws that he broke that were outside of gun laws, yet, this still happened.

COSTELLO: Supposedly the gun was a gift from his family. So --

FERGUSON: Again, we don't know if this was bought from his dad, if the money was given to him to buy one. He's 21 years old. Can you buy a gun? Yes.

COSTELLO: I understand.

Let me just make a correction, he bought the gun himself. He's 21 years old.

FERGUSON: Right. He has the right to do that. He wasn't a convicted felon. So, you know, to say that a gun law could have stopped this, based on the weapon he used, from what we understand, the laws proposed to be passed would not have stopped him from purchasing this weapon.

COSTELLO: So, Brian, is this is valuable conversation to have because he bought the gun legally, so what can you do?

JOYCE: I agree with Ben that there's not a lot of laws we have on the books right now that could have prevented this from happening. I do agree with the president. I agree with the NRA, for that matter, that we need to take a tighter look at mental instability and the easy access --

FERGUSON: Amen.

JOYCE: -- that mentally ill people have to guns. That, here, is the big problem.

Even if there is -- if this was a situation where this guy's father gave him the gun, as Ben said, there's no law that's going to prevent that.

COSTELLO: How do we know he is mentally ill, by the way? Do we know that for sure?

JOYCE: Well, this is where it's sticky, OK? Because if we want to go after the mentally ill and make sure they don't have access to these kind of guns, unfortunately, that means digging into people's privacy. That's the only way to figure out, right?

So, I would like to see more, I don't know if you want to call it laws, but at least focusing more on the mentally unstable and their access to guns. How do you do that without violating people's civil rights?

COSTELLO: Couldn't we argue -- wait, wait. Let's go back to the mentally unstable thing. Because couldn't you argue anyone who has a gun and murders someone is mentally unstable. But that doesn't necessarily fit into the definition that this person has a mental illness or is insane, legally?

FERGUSON: Well, and ultimately, I mean, you look at the terrorist cases where people are being followed and watched by the FBI recently. Even though they are watched and the FBI has people talking to ISIS, it doesn't mean to arrest them until they commit a crime. That's how the laws are written in this country.

And if you look at this young man, and you see -- I mean, there is obviously issues there. His roommate says I took his gun away from him. I think we need a better conversation about the same way that we say, if you see something, say something. With a bag left on a subway or a bag left by an airport entryway. I mean, if a roommate took the gun away, but didn't tell authorities, we have to talk about that to say, look, you think they are a threat to society, took their gun away, then gave it back. You have the responsibility to talk to authorities about that moment and time when you were afraid of this person maybe harming you or others.

COSTELLO: See, I like this conversation. Brian, the last point I want to make about how the conversation goes nowhere in there country.

JOYCE: Right.

COSTELLO: When such things happen inside a place like a church, the first thing that some people say is, oh, if only someone in that church had a gun, this would all have been prevented. Can you address that?

JOYCE: I would like to address that. I mean, if you're asking me personally, would I like to have a firearm in that situation? Absolutely, I would. I can give you many examples of situations where firearms have saved lives in America. I can give you examples of situations where they haven't.

[09:25:02] And the most recent is last month in Waco, Texas, where you had 12 armed police officers inside a restaurant and nine people ended up dead anyway. Now, some of them were shot and killed by the police, but some were not.

And my point is, the mere presence of firearms was not enough to prevent the violence from happening.

So, I don't think, look, would I want to have a firearm in that situation? I absolutely would. I think Ben would agree with me on that. But it is not a magic cure-all to the gun violence we have in this country.

FERGUSON: It's not magic, but I can tell you, as a victim of a gun crime who's been shot at, and I had to use a weapon to save my life, the best situation you can have is law-abiding citizens that are able to protect themselves and are able to protect themselves against people like this when they choose to do something to the point, where I think it was obvious. He was totally fine if it took his life and this act here.

JOYCE: Right.

FERGUSON: He had nothing to lose.

So, you know, I only want people to carry a gun who go through the proper training and feel comfortable.

JOYCE: But, Ben --

FERGUSON: I don't want anyone carrying a gun that doesn't feel comfortable with that situation. I want to make that clear.

JOYCE: Yes.

FERGUSON: I would want to carry a gun in this situation or church or anywhere I go, because I am the first line of defense to save my life and other innocent lives, if there's a crazy person in the world that wants to do this.

JOYCE: The challenge that we face today --

COSTELLO: OK. Brian, last word.

JOYCE: Yes, the challenge that we face today is who is a good legal gun owner like Ben and who is crazy? Unfortunately, today, we don't know the difference, sometimes.

COSTELLO: Ben Ferguson, Brian Jjoyce, thank you so much for an important debate. I appreciate it.

JOYCE: Thank you.

COSTELLO: Still to come in the newsroom, Dylann Roof confesses to murder. But are his heinous crimes those of a racist or terrorist? We'll talk about that next.

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